Palpatine Putin attacks Georgia

[IamFogHat]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html
The start of Russia doing our dirty work with the fundamentalist Muslims? Or should we be scared shitless about the future?

[A.J.]

Shouldn't they finish in Chechnya first?

[Knowledged_one]

This is the Russian way the US is involved somewhere else and they go and invade somebody

[K.C.]

Shouldn't they finish in Chechnya first?

They learned at the foot of the master on finishing wars.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/blog/george-w-bush-picture.jpeg

[Midkiff]

http://usversusthem.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/emperor_bush_dictator_quote.jpg

[DarkHippie]

This is going to be interesting. Georgia is very torn politically on whether they are part of Russia or independent. NATO does not recognize Georgia as independent. But by Russia doing this, they may have set political favor towards Georgia. At least until the radical Muslims in Georgia start beheading children. :(

Even if we had the military might available instead of tied up in two wars, I doubt that we would get involved in this.

Feel free to insult me if i am interpreting this wrong

[A.J.]

This is going to be interesting. Georgia is very torn politically on whether they are part of Russia or independent. NATO does not recognize Georgia as independent. But by Russia doing this, they may have set political favor towards Georgia. At least until the radical Muslims in Georgia start beheading children. :(

Even if we had the military might available instead of tied up in two wars, I doubt that we would get involved in this.

Feel free to insult me if i am interpreting this wrong

You're pretty close. It has more to do with South Ossetia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia)wanting to secede from Georgia and realign itself with Russia. Ossetians have historical ties to Russia -- more than they ever have with Georgians.

[DarkHippie]

You're pretty close. It has more to do with South Ossetia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia)wanting to secede from Georgia and realign itself with Russia. Ossetians have historical ties to Russia -- more than they ever have with Georgians.

Yay me!

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Wasn't this all sparked by an attack led by Georgia against Russian "peacekeeping" forces in South Ossetia while lots of world leaders were over in Beijing?

[Willmore]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html
The start of Russia doing our dirty work with the fundamentalist Muslims? Or should we be scared shitless about the future?


Epic Fail.

Georgians are Christians. Have been for well over a thousand years and they were never Muslim.


So here's a quick explanation of the situation:

South Ossetia is officially part of Georgia. However, after the breakup of the Soviet Union, the South Ossetians wanted to join North Ossetia as part of Russia. Or, or establish an independent state for the Ossetians, similar to the Kurdish situation in Iraq/Turkey. Georgians didn't think it was a good idea to give away South Ossetia so there was a civil war. The civil war ended with a tentative cease fire, with Russia serving as the mediator. Since then, Russian have station peacekeeping troops in South Ossetia to keep the peace between the separatist rebels and the Georgians. South Ossetia, while still de facto part of Georgia, is in reality almost a Russian province. Most South Ossetians have Russian passports, Russia has provided economic and military support to the South Ossetians while Georgia has done pretty much nothing. Since Saakashvili came to power, there has been an increase in tensions in the region. Last year, the South Ossetians passed a referendum with 90+% of the people supporting a declaration of independence. None of the other countries recognized it, so South Ossetia was still a part of Georgia.

Now, we come to August 2008. It's hard to say how this started, but the motivation of the parties involved is clear.

1. The Georgians don't want to give up South Ossetia, because that would almost guarantee that they would also have to give up Abkhazia, and those are very large chunks of their country. They also don't want to seem weak, and were expecting far greater support from the US and NATO. They likely won't get it because the US is busy in Iraq/Afghanistan and NATO really doesn't want to get into this mess.

2. The South Ossetians want to join Russia, or form an independent state. The gains from this are self-evident - greater economic stability, a re-unification with their brothers in North Ossetia, peace and quiet after 20 years of conflict.

3. Russia has multiple problems. Russia wants to reemphasize its sphere of influence in the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. This military response is in part that - a show of force that will show the US that it should back down on the defense shield in E. Europe. Also, it wants to protect its citizens. The Russians are reporting that there were significant civilian casualties as the Georgians were bombing the South Ossetian capital. Which is very possible, because the Georgians don't have sophisticated weapons systems, they were using GRAD systems. Which are essentially rocket launch systems that are inaccurate, but can fire 40 rockets at a rate of 2 per second. The Georgians have 150 of these. Imagine what that can do to an unfortified city of 30,000 like Tskhinvali. The reports are that the city was leveled to the ground. Other reports, from Russian sources, so take them with a grain of salt, are that the Georgians are throwing grenades into the basements where women and children have been holed up.


The situation right now:

The Russians are evacuating the civilians to North Ossetia. The Georgians are activation reservists. The Russians are sending in the 58th Army division as well as special forces. There is still fighting for Tskhinvali as well as the surrounding heights. Some reports claim that Abkhazia, the other breakaway republic of Georgia, is ready to enter the fighting and is sending troops to the border with Georgia. Russian Ossetians are volunteering to fight and are traveling to South Ossetia, as are the various mercenaries from Chechnya and other parts of Russia.


I think there's a very telling picture of why there has been all this conflict in such a small part of the World for so many years.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Caucasus-ethnic_en.svg

And add to all that the oil in the Caspian sea.
Did I forget to mention that Georgia has an oil pipe running through it? Silly me.

It's all about the oil ... well, that, and doughnuts. Who wouldn't go to war for some Krispy Kremes?

[earthbrown]

return of glorious russia!!!!

K

[Snoogans]

i dont see a big deal. let them have Georgia. Atlanta sucks, anyway. The only thing there that matters to anyone is the Masters, and I'm sure we could work out some kinda deal to keep playin there

[A.J.]

I guess Putin has Georgia on his mind.

[DarkHippie]

Epic Fail.

Georgians are Christians. Have been for well over a thousand years and they were never Muslim.



Epic epic Fail.

10% of Georgia's population is Muslim, a very sizable minority. For many centuries they were part of the Ottoman Empire.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Epic epic Fail.

10% of Georgia's population is Muslim, a very sizable minority. For many centuries they were part of the Ottoman Empire.

Epic epic epic epic epic fail with a cherry on top!!!

Sorry I just wanted to say that. Go on.

[Willmore]

Epic epic Fail.

10% of Georgia's population is Muslim, a very sizable minority. For many centuries they were part of the Ottoman Empire.

So were Israel, Serbia and Greece. Are those Muslim countries?

The point of the original thread was that Georgia was like Iran - a fundamentalist Islam country. It's not.

[DarkHippie]

So were Israel, Serbia and Greece. Are those Muslim countries?

The point of the original thread was that Georgia was like Iran - a fundamentalist Islam country. It's not.

No, the point is if you are going to rub shit in someone's face in this forum, your facts have better be unimpeachable. Now play nice, or don't play at all.

[foodcourtdruide]

On a side note, it irks the shit out of me when people use computer game terminology in real life. Today a friend said, "blah blah blah for the win" to me and I never felt so much disdain for anyone.

We get it, you're in your 30's and you play video games and speak game lingo. I'm in my late-20's and I enjoy wrestling, I don't end sentences with "SUCK IT!" or "I got two words for ya". Do you see how retarded that would sound? Do you see that on the list of low-art vs high-art WWE and WOW aren't that far from each other?

I predict at least one epic fail response to this post.

[DarkHippie]

On a side note, it irks the shit out of me when people use computer game terminology in real life. Today a friend said, "blah blah blah for the win" to me and I never felt so much disdain for anyone.

We get it, you're in your 30's and you play video games and speak game lingo. I'm in my late-20's and I enjoy wrestling, I don't end sentences with "SUCK IT!" or "I got two words for ya". Do you see how retarded that would sound? Do you see that on the list of low-art vs high-art WWE and WOW aren't that far from each other?

I predict at least one epic fail response to this post.

We just got pwned

[badmonkey]

On a side note, it irks the shit out of me when people use computer game terminology in real life. Today a friend said, "blah blah blah for the win" to me and I never felt so much disdain for anyone.

We get it, you're in your 30's and you play video games and speak game lingo. I'm in my late-20's and I enjoy wrestling, I don't end sentences with "SUCK IT!" or "I got two words for ya". Do you see how retarded that would sound? Do you see that on the list of low-art vs high-art WWE and WOW aren't that far from each other?

I predict at least one epic fail response to this post.

A few years ago, me and my wife were playing cards with my parents. My mother yelled "EAT IT!" as she dropped her final card and won the game.

[Towelie]

http://theinfosphere.org/images/d/d3/The_Deep_South.jpg

The lost city of Atlanta

[Willmore]

On a side note, it irks the shit out of me when people use computer game terminology in real life. Today a friend said, "blah blah blah for the win" to me and I never felt so much disdain for anyone.

We get it, you're in your 30's and you play video games and speak game lingo. I'm in my late-20's and I enjoy wrestling, I don't end sentences with "SUCK IT!" or "I got two words for ya". Do you see how retarded that would sound? Do you see that on the list of low-art vs high-art WWE and WOW aren't that far from each other?

I predict at least one epic fail response to this post.


It's not really game terminology when it crosses into the pop culture. Certainly, that would sound absurd in real life, but I thought it was fine for the occasion.

[DarkHippie]

It's not really game terminology when it crosses into the pop culture. Certainly, that would sound absurd in real life, but I thought it was fine for the occasion.

my favorite is when people say 'lol' instead of actually laughing out loud

[sr71blackbird]

What is the worst to be expected if this escalates out of control?

[badmonkey]

What is the worst to be expected if this escalates out of control?

Big Kev's Geeky XM202

[foodcourtdruide]

It's not really game terminology when it crosses into the pop culture. Certainly, that would sound absurd in real life, but I thought it was fine for the occasion.

Please elaborate. I'm not sure what you mean.

[Willmore]

Please elaborate. I'm not sure what you mean.

What I mean is that any word that is specific to a field - jargon - can cross into the general lexicon by becoming popular outside of that specific field. So jargon ceases to become jargon once it is known enough outside of the specific field.

Fluffer used to be a virtually unknown word, specific to the porn field, but now so many people know it, that it can be used in conversation, without having to explain it.

Now, "epic fail" is specific to the gamer/nerd crowd, but it has become so known that it can be freely used, without having to explain it.

This goes for a lot of other words, I just can't think of any other ones right now.

[Willmore]

What is the worst to be expected if this escalates out of control?

Well, the worst case scenario is always WW3.

But, here are the various progressions of this conflict.


Least violent - Russia and Georgia agree to a cease fire within the next week. This happens if Georgia concedes its position on South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which means that South Ossetia and Abkhazia will become de facto independent states within Georgia. This can also happen if the UN, EU and US all put enough pressure on Russia, or make other concessions on their behalf, such as agreeing to remove the planned defense shield from Eastern Europe.


More violent - Russia refuses to talk cease-fire because it no longer trusts Saakashvili to negotiate in good faith. Russia then might go as far as invading Georgia proper and sending in special forces to oust Saakashvili from power and install the pro-Russian opposition in power. Georgia becomes a Russian puppet-state, South Ossetia and Abkhazia secede from Georgia and join Russia or form independent states.



Most violent - Above happens, but the international community intervenes , led by the US and NATO and we have at best a second Korean war, and at worst the above-mentioned WW3.



For what it's worth, I think that the first scenario is the most likely.

I've heard some comparisons of Putin to Hitler's invasion of Poland. I think it is flawed. I think that if you have to make analogies to Hitler, I would choose the pre-war period of appeasement when Hitler took the Sudetenland from Austria without the world community making a peep.

Still, to be perfectly honest, the actions of Georgia were unacceptable. They ostensibly bombed the living shit out of their own civilians in Tskhinvali and leveled the city. And while Georgia's role in this has been nothing but military, Russia has brought in hospitals, evacuated the wounded and sent in humanitarian aid to the area. Who's attacking who here?

And Bush's comments that the Russian response was disproportionate is absurd. Shock and Awe was disproportionate, this is pretty standard - Georgians artillery bomb Tskhinvali, the Russians send in bombers to attack infrastructure targets in Georgia proper. Georgians send in a brigade to take Tskhinvali, the Russian send in half a division. The Russians are using superior force and more modern weapons, but they aren't annihilating cities.

[ahhdurr]

Or should we be scared shitless about the future?
What is the worst to be expected if this escalates out of control?

It seems that there's no real direct connection, but in terms of what this might mean for the US - and why this is happening in the first place - are stated in the bolded quote below. It's being played out like you'd learn about it in an Int'l Relations textbook.



1. The Georgians don't want to give up South Ossetia, because that would almost guarantee that they would also have to give up Abkhazia, and those are very large chunks of their country. They also don't want to seem weak, and were expecting far greater support from the US and NATO. They likely won't get it because the US is busy in Iraq/Afghanistan and NATO really doesn't want to get into this mess.


The US is heavily invested in it's own situation in the Middle East, Russia already has strained relations with the US - Georgia relies on the US for support and there's an important part of Georgia that is populated with political malcontents - so Russia fans the flames of dissent and provides support for the dissidents (as "peacekeepers") when hostilities begin.

Immediately, for the US, this doesn't mean shit - we can take a diplomatic stance with regard to the issue and call it a day in lieu of flexing our economic or military muscle as a deterrent- in time though, depending on the outcome, our reputation might be damaged by an inability to use diplomatic clout as deterrence. If we're unable to deter here, we'll be unable to do so in more crucial areas and at more crucial junctures. This falls neatly into the category of "relax - your kids are going to have to deal with this one"

That's what this means in a broad sense.

In a lesser sense - I think it was mentioned that Georgia serves as a friendly area in a hostile region - not so minor, but that privlege might be given up after this. Also - the oil thing, is that really an issue? cia.gov reports "minor coal and oil" deposits as part of the country's natural resources.

Perhaps, too, this is a prelude to the polarization of world power once again with, instead of like the Cold War, where there were two clear superpowers vying for world control (with political ideology as the prime motivator - in rhetoric at least), there is a whole subset of lesser entities that rally on different shared economic interests - including the sustainability of any given energy network.

You know - I wish we could return to the old pre - WWI protectionism where we withdraw from the international scene. The problem is - there's no way of knowing what's necessary for us to be wrapped up in. The government could say tomorrow that we're invading Bolivia b/c ... and I'd have to say ... ok, well I guess we needed to - it's either that or listen to the rabid watchdogs that "know" why we're in there and why we shouldn't be and on and on... I appreciate people watching out but I tend to believe that we've been disenfranchised from the process to the point where there's an enitre virtual reality that we are invested in (the country does something, they give us the bullshit - they also give the bullshit to "watchdogs who really know" and then watch everyone go at it while above this layer is the true story... this is somewhat ripped off of the Norman Mailer article that appeared in the 50th anniversary of Playboy)

Usually I just want to blot out the names of the countries on my maps and post on them where any given major corporate entity has control - there's the true power structure that might give anyone wondering a few more clues as to how things will play out.

Epic fail is actually pretty funny and strikes me as accurate - it's a pithy and accurate thing to say to someone when you need it.


A few years ago, me and my wife were playing cards with my parents. My mother yelled "EAT IT!" as she dropped her final card and won the game.
So - what happened? :popcorn:

[foodcourtdruide]

What I mean is that any word that is specific to a field - jargon - can cross into the general lexicon by becoming popular outside of that specific field. So jargon ceases to become jargon once it is known enough outside of the specific field.

Fluffer used to be a virtually unknown word, specific to the porn field, but now so many people know it, that it can be used in conversation, without having to explain it.

Now, "epic fail" is specific to the gamer/nerd crowd, but it has become so known that it can be freely used, without having to explain it.

This goes for a lot of other words, I just can't think of any other ones right now.

I disagree with you, but I'm not going to argue. This would be a semantics argument about semantics! We can't do this over the internet, we will end up calling eachother nazi's within 8 posts.

[ahhdurr]

More violent - Russia refuses to talk cease-fire because it no longer trusts Saakashvili to negotiate in good faith. Russia then might go as far as invading Georgia proper and sending in special forces to oust Saakashvili from power and install the pro-Russian opposition in power. Georgia becomes a Russian puppet-state, South Ossetia and Abkhazia secede from Georgia and join Russia or form independent states.


The quoted article talks about a battle mounting in the capital - that's pretty far into the country already... do you think there's going to be that deep of a counter offensive without occupation?





I've heard some comparisons of Putin to Hitler's invasion of Poland. I think it is flawed. I think that if you have to make analogies to Hitler, I would choose the pre-war period of appeasement when Hitler took the Sudetenland from Austria without the world community making a peep.

Still, to be perfectly honest, the actions of Georgia were unacceptable. They ostensibly bombed the living shit out of their own civilians in Tskhinvali and leveled the city.

The Georgian government simply viewed the region as hopelessly seperatist. Rather than a true part of Georgia. The region is also reported as a political grey zone where sovereignty is claimed by neither side in many instances. I mean - it's always a good story to say a country's bombing it's own (Saddam gassed Kurds - whatever) but no side in the conflict truly sees themselves as belonging to the same political entity.

[Willmore]

The quoted article talks about a battle mounting in the capital - that's pretty far into the country already... do you think there's going to be that deep of a counter offensive without occupation?

It wasn't ground fighting, just the Russian Air Force attacking what they claim were military targets outside of Tbilisi. It was also posturing to a degree - showing Georgia and the US that they aren't backing down. The situation on the ground is rather convoluted right now. Russia has crossed into Georgia proper, attacking strategic positions that they claim were bombing South Ossetia. The ground forces have also taken up positions on the country's main highway that connects the eastern part of Georgia to the black sea coast on the west. Georgians also claim that Russians have taken Gori - formerly a city of 50,000, but now almost completely evacuated, but the Russians deny this, and no reporters are able to confirm it.

Georgian forces are said to be retreating to take up defensive positions outside of Tbilisi. This was to be expected, but I doubt anyone thinks that Russia will try to mount an offensive to take Tbilisi. If it does, it will be the bloodiest city battle since WW2 and no one wants that. I think that the situation will calm down in the next few days, because Russia will likely get what it wants.


The Georgian government simply viewed the region as hopelessly seperatist. Rather than a true part of Georgia. The region is also reported as a political grey zone where sovereignty is claimed by neither side in many instances. I mean - it's always a good story to say a country's bombing it's own (Saddam gassed Kurds - whatever) but no side in the conflict truly sees themselves as belonging to the same political entity.

True, but that didn't prevent Georgia from trumpeting "Russia invades Georgia" when the Russians sent in its army to South Ossetia to repel the Georgian forces from Tskhinvali.

[Willmore]

George Bush just fucked up.


Russia’s “brutal escalation” of attacks against the former Soviet republic of Georgia have jeopardized Russia’s relationship with the United States and European nations, President Bush told reporters Monday after returning from his trip to Asia.

“Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century,” he said.

World powers have urged Russia to agree to an immediate cease-fire with Georgia and accept international mediation on the crisis in South Ossetia, as the international community sought to head off all-out war between the two.

Bush reiterated the call Monday afternoon, saying, “Russia must reverse the course it appears to be on and accept this peace agreement as a first step in resolving this conflict.”


I don't know if it was his decision, or some moron in the state department advised it, but the use of the word "must" in his speech could ruin any possible peace process. International politics is a giant cockfest with huge egos that have to be cajoled at every corner. If you tell a person he must do something, he's going to spit you in the face, even if you're the US and he is some pacific island nation. This sort of rhetoric was meant for no one except the American people. This is just another one of Bush's misguided attempts to be portrayed as a positive president for posterity.

Had the US worked behind the scenes, indirectly through France and Germany, and not said anything, this could have been over on Wednesday. Now, it's going to take weeks of tensions and military standoffs in the region. Stupid.

[DarkHippie]

George Bush just fucked up.





I don't know if it was his decision, or some moron in the state department advised it, but the use of the word "must" in his speech could ruin any possible peace process. International politics is a giant cockfest with huge egos that have to be cajoled at every corner. If you tell a person he must do something, he's going to spit you in the face, even if you're the US and he is some pacific island nation. This sort of rhetoric was meant for no one except the American people. This is just another one of Bush's misguided attempts to be portrayed as a positive president for posterity.

Had the US worked behind the scenes, indirectly through France and Germany, and not said anything, this could have been over on Wednesday. Now, it's going to take weeks of tensions and military standoffs in the region. Stupid.

I swear to god, bush thinks he's fucking gary cooper

[keithy_19]

I swear to god, bush thinks he's fucking gary cooper

I like to think we're all like gary cooper.

[SatCam]

super duper

[ahhdurr]

George Bush just fucked up.





I don't know if it was his decision, or some moron in the state department advised it, but the use of the word "must" in his speech could ruin any possible peace process. International politics is a giant cockfest with huge egos that have to be cajoled at every corner. If you tell a person he must do something, he's going to spit you in the face, even if you're the US and he is some pacific island nation. This sort of rhetoric was meant for no one except the American people. This is just another one of Bush's misguided attempts to be portrayed as a positive president for posterity.

Had the US worked behind the scenes, indirectly through France and Germany, and not said anything, this could have been over on Wednesday. Now, it's going to take weeks of tensions and military standoffs in the region. Stupid.

It may have been over with Georgia a new Russian territory. Give ol' Gary Cooper fucker a chance. Let's see how it plays.

[ahhdurr]

True, but that didn't prevent Georgia from trumpeting "Russia invades Georgia" when the Russians sent in its army to South Ossetia to repel the Georgian forces from Tskhinvali.

Russia did invade Georgia. That's Georgian territory.

They have Georgian/Russians in South Ossetia there that want it to be Russia. My point is outsiders should stay out of commenting on how anyone's bombing their own when it's part of the central government's duty to maintain the integrity of it's physical demarcation of political sovereignty - regardless of the nations that are contained there.

[ahhdurr]

I think that the situation will calm down in the next few days, because Russia will likely get what it wants.




What does Russia want?
<a href = "http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043236/Georgia-overrun-Russian-troops-scale-ground-invasion-begins.html">Because it's entirely possible that this turns into a Georgian ass-raping.</a>

[HBox]

It may have been over with Georgia a new Russian territory. Give ol' Gary Cooper fucker a chance. Let's see how it plays.

I think we are long since past giving ol' Gary Cooper a chance with anything.

[booster11373]

Cold War 2?

[ahhdurr]

I think we are long since past giving ol' Gary Cooper a chance with anything.

Easy - I have a W crossed out on my fridge too - I don't give a fuck is A. E. Newman's running the show - I want this bullshit isolated and taken care of properly and I'm saying that's not beyond this fuckup administration.

[K.C.]

Most violent - Above happens, but the international community intervenes , led by the US and NATO and we have at best a second Korean war, and at worst the above-mentioned WW3.


That will never, ever, ever, EVER, happen.

The bottom line is that the West knows which battles to fight and which not to, and they're not going to blow up relations with Russia (especially the Europeans), to defend Georgia, no matter what the circumstances are.

They just aren't.


As for this whole situation, both sides bear responsibility.

But I've seen nothing yet that suggests to me that Russia is lying about their objectives of securing the South Ossetia region.

The move in to Gori is a strategic one to prevent immediate counter-strikes by the Georgian forces, and is pretty tactically correct if they're trying to secure the province.



Now, if they move towards the capital...then it becomes completely obvious that this is a regime change move.

Ultimately, whether this ends up being a protective measure, or a regime change move, Georgia played this very, very badly politically.


They gave Russia the excuse they were looking for to intervene in South Ossetia. Now it will probably cost them any type of presence in both disputed provinces.

I really have no clue what the Georgian President was thinking. Maybe he thought that Russia wouldn't dare risk open war during the Olympics and that they could secure the provinces quickly, and present a united front that would discourage Russian intervention after the Olympics.

Or maybe he thought NATO would use political pressure to keep Russia at bay.

Who knows.

I'd be shocked if they overthrow the government, though. Russia essentially can get exactly what they want out of this, as the situation stands right now.

And now they'll have two 'autonomous' proxies on both sides of Georgia to act through. They can systematically break down Georgia at their leisure, as opposed to risking the political scrutiny of a complete military overthrow.

[ahhdurr]

Also - the oil thing, is that really an issue? cia.gov reports "minor coal and oil" deposits as part of the country's natural resources.


This explains the importance of the region in terms of oil.

From a recent article:
While Georgia does not produce oil itself, U.S. and European energy firms have counted on the pro-Western country - sandwiched between Russia and Iran - to host a pipeline for oil and gas exports from Azerbaijan.

I don't think the strategic importance of Georgia has been stressed in anything I've read with regard to Iran.

[Willmore]

What does Russia want?
<a href = "http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043236/Georgia-overrun-Russian-troops-scale-ground-invasion-begins.html">Because it's entirely possible that this turns into a Georgian ass-raping.</a>

Why are kittens cute?

Who knows?

They want respect on the international arena. They want America to back down its advances in Eastern Europe. They want Georgia to cease its attempts to reclaim South Ossetia and Abkhazia. They wanted to show that their military is rebuilt from its dilapidated state of the mid-late 90s.

At this point, they will settle for any resolution that forces Georgia to remove all of its forces from South Ossetia and Abkhazia, including the peacekeeping forces agreed to in 1992, and recognizes S. Ossetia and Abkhazia as autonomous regions within Georgia.

I seriously doubt they fighting will escalate, there are simply no more military objectives to achieve. If Russia moves in further into the country, they gain nothing and only lose because their current claims would seem false. Tomorrow Russia will be talking with NATO and presenting their side of the story, which would be hard to do, if you have troops approaching a 1,000,000 population city.

[ahhdurr]

*They want respect on the international arena.
*They want America to back down its advances in Eastern Europe.
*They want Georgia to cease its attempts to reclaim South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
*They wanted to show that their military is rebuilt from its dilapidated state of the mid-late 90s.

At this point, they will settle for any resolution that forces Georgia to remove all of its forces from South Ossetia and Abkhazia, including the peacekeeping forces agreed to in 1992, and recognizes S. Ossetia and Abkhazia as autonomous regions within Georgia.



I'd throw in causing trouble in a nation that assists with the supply of oil to the west and disrupting an ally of the US that borders Iran while at the same time thumbing their nose at us with this move. I can't buy that they really give a shit about these territories though - they're the pawns.

NYT article excerpt:
"All this basically means that Russia emerges as a great power," Friedman said. "Not a global power like it used to be, but a power that has to be taken very seriously." (Friedman was their expert for the article)

<a href = "http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/12/europe/12diplo.php?page=1">This is the link to the above mentioned article.</a>
<br>

How they want to emerge as a great power again is mentioned. How the US is wrapped up in Iraq is mentioned and how Rice sent a mid level State official to mediate, so we don't really care.


Epic face to Georgia and the west. Russia for the win.

[ahhdurr]

Why are kittens cute?

Who knows?


I got a guy.
Because they're entertaining, and they don't eat you until you die.

[ahhdurr]

Why are kittens cute?

Who knows?



Got some more...
I don't know why they're cute, but whatever it is...


causes you take pause before crushing their little skulls.





Naked Mole Rats take note.

You ask like its a fact.

It is the big eyes that make them seem cute.

My friends cat just had kittens & let me tell you they really are the cutest little furriest thing ever. I love when they start walking around there little claws get stuck in the rug. They are just cute.

[A.J.]

George Bush just fucked up.

Russia’s “brutal escalation” of attacks against the former Soviet republic of Georgia have jeopardized Russia’s relationship with the United States and European nations, President Bush told reporters Monday after returning from his trip to Asia.

“Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century,” he said.

Meanwhile, back in Iraq...

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Meanwhile, back in Iraq...

QFMFT

[Furtherman]

“Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century,” he said.

:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash: :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

[booster11373]

Meanwhile, back in Iraq...


Ah but you see the differece is that we......um...ah umm........God Bless America!

[ahhdurr]

Why are kittens cute?

Who knows?



Opinions are varying but I think we're getting closer -

I'm really liking Chigworthy's kitten wisdom btw...

They are soooo cute when they open their mouths and you see the sharp teeth and that Tiger like face, but this liiiiiittle squeak comes out. Oh I just want to bake them in a pie.

I know they're cute because when I wash my car with one the whole neighborhood wants to stare and point..

When you dunk them into the bucket and they come out all covered in suds or the cute little sound they make when you're scrubing your rims, OMG I just wanna eat 'em up..Too cute!


KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS.

I disagree with the big eye theory, as this:
Is fucking adorable and 1) Not a cat, and 2) Doesn't have big eyes.

This is like "if a tree falls in a forest when no one is around" it is true but cannot be answered


I think small things are just automatically considered cute.



i'd have to go with this theory...my chick think that any little version of anything is cute...like those tiny bottles of ketchup you get with room service

*lob*

And your penis.

*spike*

Mainecoons FTW.

They are the only reason man talk to women.
Wait are we talking about pussy?:blink:

Some believe that we are genetically wired for paternal/maternal attraction to anything remotely similar to a human baby. Infant mammals generally have a large head and proportionally large eyes, which could be a visual cue that triggers this protective emotion.

contrary to popular belief i have not eaten live kittens...

i do in fact believe kittens are cute but i do not like cats

Cats are a great way to open up to a girl to let her know you really really care about HER.

Im definitely talking about pussy.

I don't get it.

and 3) can easily fit into any opening....ANY opening....

[Earlshog]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/28/russia.georgia.cold.war/index.html


Putin accuses U.S. of orchestrating Georgian war


commie red Russia its great to have you back. If the US loses this time do our Girls have to go strip over there?