Lehman to go Belly up next?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Well earlier this year it was the end of the road for Bear Stearns. Lehman Brothers shares have plummeted and as a result they are selling off assets like a garage sale. It looks like another once mighty Investment bank might be facing the grim reaper. Any ideas of what this bailout will cost? It seems like The treasury dept has become the money store and Hank Paulson is the new Phil Rizzuto

JP Morgans buyout of Bear was was 30 billion


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080913/ap_on_bi_ge/lehman_meeting_13

[CousinDave]

I've lost $39k in Merrill Lynch since December.

I think its time to start looking towards Dubai and Shanghai for investments, the govt and financial institutions of this country are living on borrowed time and money.

At this point I feel a lot more comfortable with Chinese and UAE bankers, to bad we can't outsource the running of the government to Dubai.

The US govt needs to get out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and never should have bailed out Bear Stearns - they didn't bail out Enron and the country survived.

[epo]

Lehman Brothers files, Merrill Lynch next? (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/business/15lehman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin)

In one the most extraordinary days in Wall Street’s in history, Merrill Lynch is near an 11th-hour deal with Bank of America to avert a deepening financial crisis while another storied securities firm, Lehman Brothers, hurtled toward liquidation, according to people briefed on the deal.

.....................................

Lehman will seek to place its parent company, Lehman Brothers Holdings, into bankruptcy protection, as its subsidiaries remain solvent while the parent firm liquidates, these people said. A consortium of banks will provide a financial backstop to help provide an orderly winding down of the 158-year-old investment bank. And the Federal Reserve has agreed to accept lower-quality assets in return for loans from the government.


What a fucking mess. Could we get a bit of regulation in these markets please?

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

I'd say YES.

I work for a printer in JC that caters to the big financial houses. We lost the Bear Sterns account when JPMorgan Chase bought them (with a loan from the gov't). I suppose we'll lose this account if one of out other clients doesn't buy Lehman. So far, it doesn't look good.

EDIT: I suppose there will never be gov't take over for health insurance companies until THEY get crippled and go down.

[YourAmishDaddy]

Just shows how socialist, yes socialist the GOP is. Just imagine. Propping up failed business and industry. And when they finally fail, they socialize the losses. So we all get to pay for it.

[Zorro]

I'd say YES.

I work for a printer in JC that caters to the big financial houses. We lost the Bear Sterns account when JPMorgan Chase bought them (with a loan from the gov't). I suppose we'll lose this account if one of out other clients doesn't buy Lehman. So far, it doesn't look good.

EDIT: I suppose there will never be gov't take over for health insurance companies until THEY get crippled and go down.


Not to be a party pooper here, but we can thank Bill Clinton and a Republican Congress for repealing Glass-Steagel in 1999. Clinton/Gramm-Leach-Bliley & Alan Greespan were the architects of this mess...Bush put it in motion and well you get...disaster

[Tenbatsuzen]

Between BOA taking over Merrill and Countrywide, they aren't going to be there something else falls.

[epo]

Not to be a party pooper here, but we can thank Bill Clinton and a Republican Congress for repealing Glass-Steagel in 1999. Clinton/Gramm-Leach-Bliley & Alan Greespan were the architects of this mess...Bush put it in motion and well you get...disaster

Thanks Phil Gramm. The same Phil Gramm whose family is all over those California "brownouts" from earlier in the decade.

And this turd is a "key economic advisor". Fuck...McCain would be better off hiring Chauncey Gardner.

[JPMNICK]

the year started with 5 major investment banks, 2 are left.

the housing bubble has DESTROYED the most famous financial institutions in this country. i can not believe there is no more ML.

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Just shows how socialist, yes socialist the GOP is. Just imagine. Propping up failed business and industry. And when they finally fail, they socialize the losses. So we all get to pay for it.

What I don't understand is that the GOP is about LESS government.

So, why the gov't bail outs? I DO realize that our economy would go into a tailspin without it.

But WHY is that less socialistic than Universal Healthcare?





I work next to a guy who works TWO jobs and he told me universal healthcare is a failure and it's "FAILED in other countries." REALLY??? I shut my mouth so I wouldn't get jumped in the parking lot.

[YourAmishDaddy]

What I don't understand is that the GOP is about LESS government.

So, why the gov't bail outs? I DO realize that our economy would go into a tailspin without it.

But WHY is that less socialistic than Universal Healthcare?





I work next to a guy who works TWO jobs and he told me universal healthcare is a failure and it's "FAILED in other countries." REALLY??? I shut my mouth so I wouldn't get jumped in the parking lot.

I know exactly what you mean.

And I'm not as sure about how big a tailspin we'd go into if that happened. I mean that's half the problem. The Fed and the government think they can artificially shock protect corrections. There has to be some sort of reaction to every market action.

[Tenbatsuzen]

the year started with 5 major investment banks, 2 are left.

the housing bubble has DESTROYED the most famous financial institutions in this country. i can not believe there is no more ML.

If there's any indicators, ML was really fucked from the inside. A co-worker used to be at ML, and he told me things were bad when he jumped ship a year ago.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Thanks Phil Gramm. The same Phil Gramm whose family is all over those California "brownouts" from earlier in the decade.

And this turd is a "key economic advisor". Fuck...McCain would be better off hiring Chauncey Gardner.

I'd take financial advice from Lou Gramm at this point.

[epo]

I'd take financial advice from Lou Gramm at this point.

Foreigners! Them damned commies are as cold as ice!

Just between you and me...I think those pricks have double vision.

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

There has to be some sort of reaction to every market action.


Yes. people I work with get LAYED OFF and are shit our of LUCK!!

[thejives]

Put all your money in waffles.

[JPMNICK]

all these banks are DISASTERS inside. they are fucking leveraged to the top and all holding shitty investments that are declining.

meanwhile they use math simulations to make predictions, but the math is so complex at this point it is almost impossible for them to check it. no one has been using common sense and this is where we end up.

and the goverment is not really bailing them out. it is taking a very delicate approach to all this.

do not forget the Federal Reserve Bank is NOT the government. it is technically privately held. it is not affiliated with the treasury.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Foreigners! Them damned commies are as cold as ice!

Just between you and me...I think those pricks have double vision.

Since Greenspan was alive during the Great Depression, he mumbled, "Feels like the first time..."

[Tenbatsuzen]

CNBC reports that Lehman is filing for Bankruptcy tonight (just have to figure out some derivatives garbage that isn't covered by bankruptcy) and that there will be an internal employee Memo to ML's people about the merger with BOA between 8-9 tomorrow.

I have a feeling the failsafes are gonna trigger tomorrow and we're gonna stop trading.

[JPMNICK]

CNBC reports that Lehman is filing for Bankruptcy tonight (just have to figure out some derivatives garbage that isn't covered by bankruptcy) and that there will be an internal employee Memo to ML's people about the merger with BOA between 8-9 tomorrow.

I have a feeling the failsafes are gonna trigger tomorrow and we're gonna stop trading.

pre-market futures are down almost 2% already.

this is going to be a shit storm for the market this week. oil is going back up due the hurricane, and so are gas prices.

thank every asshole who makes 50k a year who bought a 600k house in the last 7 years.

[Tenbatsuzen]

pre-market futures are down almost 2% already.

this is going to be a shit storm for the market this week. oil is going back up due the hurricane, and so are gas prices.

thank every asshole who makes 50k a year who bought a 600k house in the last 7 years.

Oh, it gets better:




AIG turns down private equity infusion, turns to Fed: report
updated 9:18 p.m. ET Sept. 14, 2008
Font size:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - American International Group Inc CEO Robert Willumstad turned down a private equity infusion and turned to the Federal Reserve for help, the Wall Street Journal, citing people familiar with the situation, reported Sunday





Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Did I mention my closing is in two weeks? AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH LOLZ

[Tenbatsuzen]

I hate to use a showref, but... That... that's terrible, I'm sorry. How did your economy die?

[Devo37]

with the stock trading as low as it is, would it be stupid to buy a bunch of Lehman stock, hoping that the company will survive this?

[JPMNICK]

with the stock trading as low as it is, would it be stupid to buy a bunch of Lehman stock, hoping that the company will survive this?



no they are going bankrupt, which means the stock is worthless. they are shutting the doors.

if you want to buy a stock on the cheap that is financial, look into Washington Mutual or even Wachovia.

[Tenbatsuzen]

no they are going bankrupt, which means the stock is worthless. they are shutting the doors.

if you want to buy a stock on the cheap that is financial, look into Washington Mutual or even Wachovia.

Wachovia maybe, but stay away from WaMu

[JPMNICK]

Wachovia maybe, but stay away from WaMu

i hear WaMu might get bought up by JPMorgan. it is a risky bet, but at 3 bucks a share the only 2 options are the stock goes up or the bank fails. it is not going to stay at 3 bucks for long

[mikeyboy]

the housing bubble has DESTROYED the most famous financial institutions in this country. i can not believe there is no more ML.

The housing market killed an online mafia game? Goodbye robot arms.

[FUNKMAN]

pre-market futures are down almost 2% already.

thank every asshole who makes 50k a year who bought a 600k house in the last 7 years.

you have these financial institutions/lenders that employ high priced lawyers, ceo's, executives, that make millions if not billions of dollars in salary because this is their supposed value for their education. these financial institutions/lenders approve these irresponsible loans and you are calling the working man/woman that makes 50k assholes.

what does that make the financial institutions who approved the loan?

not trying to bust your balls... it just seemed you were placing most of the blame on the people making 50k and I just have to disagree

those people making 50k will be losing their homes YET there are the lawyers, ceo's, executives, and a good handful of wallstreet traders that pocketed millions/billions of dollars on these bad loans and that money is theirs to keep...

[JPMNICK]

you have these financial institutions/lenders that employ high priced lawyers, ceo's, executives, that make millions if not billions of dollars in salary because this is their supposed value for their education. these financial institutions/lenders approve these irresponsible loans and you are calling the working man/woman that makes 50k assholes.

what does that make the financial institutions who approved the loan?

not trying to bust your balls... it just seemed you were placing most of the blame on the people making 50k and I just have to disagree

those people making 50k will be losing their homes YET there are the lawyers, ceo's, executives, and a good handful of wallstreet traders that pocketed millions/billions of dollars on these bad loans and that money is theirs to keep...

no i agree that there is a huge amount of blame placed on the banks as well, but the person signs the actual paper at the end of the day. most people research buy a TV more then they research their mortgage. the largest purchase they will ever make, and they put it in the hands of a stranger without really researching or understanding what they are getting into.

common sense on both ends could have made this a lot less painful for those of us on the sidelines.

[Tenbatsuzen]

The housing market killed an online mafia game? Goodbye robot arms.

Actually, it's owned by BOA now, so you still have robot arms, just with shitty customer service.

[Freitag]

Futures market down 300 points. I can't post pics really at work, so just imagine The Joker here.

"And here we.... go!"

[JPMNICK]

Futures market down 300 points. I can't post pics really at work, so just imagine The Joker here.

"And here we.... go!"

asian and european markets were down between 4-5%. something needs to happen this morning to calm investors or else we are in for a day when the dow hits 10,800

[HBox]

asian and european markets were down between 4-5%. something needs to happen this morning to calm investors or else we are in for a day when the dow hits 10,800

PROBLEM SOLVED. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26718278/)

[Freitag]

PROBLEM SOLVED. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26718278/)

Insert picture of Riker facepalming with "GODFNINGDAMNIT!" here.

[Freitag]

First minute: down 85!

[Jujubees2]

PROBLEM SOLVED. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26718278/)

Well I feel better already. The guy who couldn't make money in the oil business and whose family was involved with the savings and loan crisis is going to fix everything.

[Freitag]

In other news, that bastion of financial solvency, Best Buy, will acquire Napster for 121 million.

[Freitag]

Well I feel better already. The guy who couldn't make money in the oil business and whose family was involved with the savings and loan crisis is going to fix everything.

Didn't he also trade away Sammy Sosa?

[JPMNICK]

the nasdaq opened down 2.5%

[Freitag]

Does anyone have the text of the memo ML sent out this morning yet?

What really annoys me on these sites like FARK is that people think at ML, just the fatcats are losing their jobs. They ARE, but also people who don't make the big money, like marketing people, analysts, etc. are ALSO going to lose their jobs. And they ain't making the huge bonus money.

[Freitag]

11 minutes in, down 290.

We go down another 300, trading stops.

[Freitag]

Sell, Mortimer! Sell!!

[JPMNICK]

washington mutual stock is tanking

and on unrelated notes, Sirius XM stock is at 85 cents a share.

between Citadel and XM stock, O&A have a lot of worthless paper sitting around

[Freitag]

washington mutual stock is tanking

and on unrelated notes, Sirius XM stock is at 85 cents a share.

between Citadel and XM stock, O&A have a lot of worthless paper sitting around

so glad I didn't get my mortgage at Wamu

[Earlshog]

Does anyone have the text of the memo ML sent out this morning yet?

What really annoys me on these sites like FARK is that people think at ML, just the fatcats are losing their jobs. They ARE, but also people who don't make the big money, like marketing people, analysts, etc. are ALSO going to lose their jobs. And they ain't making the huge bonus money.

it will effect people at every level, well except for the highest level execs.

The people who were making 300 - 400 K at these brokerage houses are going to have a tough time finding new employment in that pay grade. That will have ripple effects to the economy.

You are absolutely right the average guy in the 50 - 100 K range will suffer the most.

[debit]

We need Warren Buffett or Patrick Stewart right about now.

[JPMNICK]

the banking situation will cause the fairly stable housing market in NYC to drop. maybe not as much as the national level, but it will have an effect on sales across the board at all levels

[Zorro]

the banking situation will cause the fairly stable housing market in NYC to drop. maybe not as much as the national level, but it will have an effect on sales across the board at all levels

The New York City housing market with the exception of Manhattan is already in the tank.

[JPMNICK]

The New York City housing market with the exception of Manhattan is already in the tank.

Yea sorry I should have stated manhatten

[Freitag]

We need Warren Buffett or Patrick Stewart right about now.

I got Warren Zevon or Jimmy Buffett. How about some "Lawyers Guns and Money"?

[boobieman]

Yea sorry I should have stated manhatten

Brooklyn and Queens are still high in the housing market...only place in NYC that is not high right now is Staen Island..but can you blame them...YUCK!!

SEEEEEEYAYAAAAAAAAAAAA

[JPMNICK]

Brooklyn and Queens are still high in the housing market...only place in NYC that is not high right now is Staen Island..but can you blame them...YUCK!!

SEEEEEEYAYAAAAAAAAAAAA

Queens and BK are both seeing MASSIVE rises in forclosures

[JPMNICK]

congrats NY tax payers, you governor just put you on the hook for 20 billion to bail out AIG

well not really, he let the lend themselves money

but still, an interesting move on his part

[Freitag]

congrats NY tax payers, you governor just put you on the hook for 20 billion to bail out AIG

well not really, he let the lend themselves money

but still, an interesting move on his part

bah, I actually want AIG to fail.

[CousinDave]

What I don't understand is that the GOP is about LESS government.

So, why the gov't bail outs? I DO realize that our economy would go into a tailspin without it.



Big business loves big government - never forget that.

Once big business gets the government involved, then big business doesn't have to be accountable anymore. The railroad industry is the perfect example.

The government should be nothing more than the referee, once the government becomes a player, there is no referee.

All I can say is learn to speak Mandarin and hope the folks in Dubai love money more than than they do Muhammad.

[boobieman]

Brooklyn and Queens are still high in the housing market...only place in NYC that is not high right now is Staen Island..but can you blame them...YUCK!!

SEEEEEEYAYAAAAAAAAAAAA

Not as much as I would like...I'm looking and everything I see is still way out of my league. For the amount of space for the price..not worth it.

Sorry did not mean to go off topic...I will spank myself

SEEYAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[JPMNICK]

The stock selloff accelerates as the Dow drops over 400 points, or about 3.5%

about 40 minutes left of trading.

i have a feeling we only end up down about 185 points

[CousinDave]

pre-market futures are down almost 2% already.

this is going to be a shit storm for the market this week. oil is going back up due the hurricane, and so are gas prices.

thank every asshole who makes 50k a year who bought a 600k house in the last 7 years.


Well those people were assholes, but the bankers who gave these losers loans in the first place are much more to blame than the retards who took out the loans in the first place.

Its the banks and their NINJA loans

No Income, No Job Applicants

The banks get their closings costs and when the borrower defaults the tax payers will cover the loan.

[Earlshog]

The stock selloff accelerates as the Dow drops over 400 points, or about 3.5%

about 40 minutes left of trading.

i have a feeling we only end up down about 185 points

did Hippo call that one? :tongue:

[JPMNICK]

The stock selloff accelerates as the Dow drops over 400 points, or about 3.5%

about 40 minutes left of trading.

i have a feeling we only end up down about 185 points

did Hippo call that one? :tongue:

HAHHAHA i thought it would pull a late day rally, but it seems like it is bad enough out there where it is dropping more. we are under 11k, down close to 4%

[Freitag]

HAHHAHA i thought it would pull a late day rally, but it seems like it is bad enough out there where it is dropping more. we are under 11k, down close to 4%

Jim Cramer's Bandaid

[JPMNICK]

The Dow ends nearly 500 points lower - its worst point drop in more than seven years - as widening bank woes scare investors.

it is going to be an interesting day tomorrow.

[Earlshog]

Jim Cramer's Bandaid

haha.... Maria Bartaromos glory hole....

[Freitag]

it is going to be an interesting day tomorrow.


Tomorrow's CNBC broadcast will consist of nothing more than Al Dukes reading a book and drinking a glass of milk.

[Freitag]

KHBNick

[JPMNICK]

KHBNick

thursday I picked up an UltraShort Financial ETF from Proshares, and made a killing. I am the snoogans of the stock market

[Recyclerz]

Anybody going to be scrounging up change from your sofa cushions to be buying tomorrow? Or is it waiting, crouched up in the fetal position, until the SUV stops rolling?

I'm leaning towards the former, but maybe not quite yet.

[JPMNICK]

Anybody going to be scrounging up change from your sofa cushions to be buying tomorrow? Or is it waiting, crouched up in the fetal position, until the SUV stops rolling?

I'm leaning towards the former, but maybe not quite yet.

i am considering it, as long as the stock is not in the financial sector it might not be a horrible time. I still think we have a couple more months at least of stagnation, so i do not think it is a rush. there are still a few more banks that are going to fail

SiriusXM stock down another 11% today

[Freitag]

thursday I picked up an UltraShort Financial ETF from Proshares, and made a killing. I am the snoogans of the stock market

you smoke up and then post in caps at people who disagree with you?

[Recyclerz]

i am considering it, as long as the stock is not in the financial sector it might not be a horrible time. I still think we have a couple more months at least of stagnation, so i do not think it is a rush. there are still a few more banks that are going to fail

Which banks do you see going under? I'm thinking we might lose a couple of W's (WaMu and Wachovia).

I'm also getting the sense that we may be getting close to one of those opportunities where you can make a small pile of money into a significantly bigger pile of money by buying the survivors of this shakeout. I guess I've got some research to do.

[JPMNICK]

Which banks do you see going under? I'm thinking we might lose a couple of W's (WaMu and Wachovia).

I'm also getting the sense that we may be getting close to one of those opportunities where you can make a small pile of money into a significantly bigger pile of money by buying the survivors of this shakeout. I guess I've got some research to do.

i meant smaller regional banks, which will require the Fed money and FDIC insurance to come into play.

I doubt wachovia goes anywhere, but WaMu is in big trouble. I heard last week JPMorgan was thinking of picking them up, but that went no where

[K.C.]

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[Freitag]

8 minutes left. Oh boy, I can't WAIT to see what happens next!

[SatCam]

thursday I picked up an UltraShort Financial ETF from Proshares, and made a killing. I am the snoogans of the stock market

I just want to point out that snoogans is the snoogans of the stock market (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39939)

[mendyweiss]

Sirius Stock Is Selling At 0.74 Cents/Share !!!
Let's Start Buying, Peoples !!!!!

[K.C.]

Sirius Stock Is Selling At 0.74 Cents/Share !!!
Let's Start Buying, Peoples !!!!!

Why? It's going to go out of business.

There's absolutely zero buzz for Satellite anymore, and with the economy tanking, consumer spending will be down again this Christmas.

Mel is fucked, barring a minor miracle.

Satellite's window for success closed a year or so ago.

[JPMNICK]

Why? It's going to go out of business.

There's absolutely zero buzz for Satellite anymore, and with the economy tanking, consumer spending will be down again this Christmas.

Mel is fucked, barring a minor miracle.

Satellite's window for success closed a year or so ago.

i read a great article the other day about how the FCC ultimately killed satellite by stretching this merger out so long. it basically forced both companies to bleed money and stop any development of new products or talent signing. it made consumers nervous about investing into the technology as well.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10436744/1/fcc-caused-sirius-trouble.html?puc=_cnnmoney&cm_ven=CNNMONEY&cm_cat=Free&cm_pla=Feed&cm_ite=Feed&puc=cnnmoney&

[K.C.]

i read a great article the other day about how the FCC ultimately killed satellite by stretching this merger out so long. it basically forced both companies to bleed money and stop any development of new products or talent signing. it made consumers nervous about investing into the technology as well.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10436744/1/fcc-caused-sirius-trouble.html?puc=_cnnmoney&cm_ven=CNNMONEY&cm_cat=Free&cm_pla=Feed&cm_ite=Feed&puc=cnnmoney&

I'd agree with that to a point.

But there's a bunch of other reasons, too. The car industry failing, people are driving less with the gas crunch...

But most importantly, it was an old technology from the start. Satellite Radio should have been developed and rolled out in the Early 90s when most people were first jumping into Cable Television.

Then it would have been successful.

Now, people are moving away from live programming altogether. Everything is transitioning to OnDemand, listen/watch at your convenience, and that's not going to stop.

People aren't going to pay EXTRA for radio, no matter how good it is, when people in general are transitioning away from radio overall.


And none of that takes into account how piss-poorly the finances of both companies were managed.

Sirius signing Stern was the beginning of the end. It created an arms race of sorts to scramble to buy up the most commodities between the two platforms that drove both these companies into financial ruin.

[ahhdurr]

congrats NY tax payers, you governor just put you on the hook for 20 billion to bail out AIG

well not really, he let the lend themselves money

but still, an interesting move on his part

I just read about this story - I think my homeowner's is with them... any idea if this is something I should change?

Oh - and wtf is with the market lately? Who can give me the most likely doomsday scenario? :popcorn:

[Tenbatsuzen]

I just read about this story - I think my homeowner's is with them... any idea if this is something I should change?

Oh - and wtf is with the market lately? Who can give me the most likely doomsday scenario? :popcorn:

Hang tight. Your policies will be serviced. There's a difference between the AIG holdings and the actual company.

The AIG firesale begins and I can only hope that companies take advantage of them.

Either Wamu or Wachovia is going to be by chase, Lehman's is getting bought by Barclay's, and AIG is going to get divided out to the safer Insurance companies.

[Recyclerz]

Looks like the Feds are going to set up a government entity similar to the Resolution Trust Corporation (that managed the S&L crisis about 20 years ago) that uses taxpayers $ to buy up the bad financial assets (albeit at a steep discount, I hope) from the Wall St. Kids to help fix the balance sheets of all these institutions.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122177442732653979.html?mod=djemalert

This process worked for W's Dad, and I suspect it will again although at a significant cost to the US taxpayers of the future. I'm curious what my conservative and Libertarian messageboard friends think about the Socialist coup d'etat that is underway in DC these days.

[K.C.]

Looks like the Feds are going to set up a government entity similar to the Resolution Trust Corporation (that managed the S&L crisis about 20 years ago) that uses taxpayers $ to buy up the bad financial assets (albeit at a steep discount, I hope) from the Wall St. Kids to help fix the balance sheets of all these institutions.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122177442732653979.html?mod=djemalert

This process worked for W's Dad, and I suspect it will again although at a significant cost to the US taxpayers of the future. I'm curious what my conservative and Libertarian messageboard friends think about the Socialist coup d'etat that is underway in DC these days.


Oh, it's CORPORATE welfare....you know...not going to someone whose actually poor and might need help...

So I'm sure they're all for it.

What garbage, we have to waste money bailing out these greedy deadbeats.