Congratulations, America!

[K.C.]

You're now officially a third world country!

Who's the big winner? We're the big winner! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Knowledged_one]

Mud Huts?
Lack of Education?
Economic dependence on more advanced countries?
No public utilities?
Low GDP?
High Unemployment?
Scarcity of goods?

Well i think the answer to all of those are no, so i dont think the US is a 3rd world country

[K.C.]

Mud Huts?
Obviously you've never been to Flint, MI, Chester, PA, or North Philadelphia


Lack of Education?
Uhhhhhhh...

Economic dependence on more advanced countries?
If China called all our debt tomorrow, we'd default

No public utilities?
Have you seen US infrastructure lately?

Low GDP?
It's coming

High Unemployment?
On the rise

Scarcity of goods?
Gas and food...and gas and food.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

we suck, but we are not third world


we are just greedy , egotistical morons who take everything for granted until it bites us in the ass


then we overcare and try to print more money to solve the problem



I cant wait to move to California and mine for gold when the Great Depression II strikes

[midwestjeff]

Obviously you've never been to Flint, MI, Chester, PA, or North Philadelphia

Or Delaware.

[K.C.]

I cant wait to move to California and mine for gold when the Great Depression II strikes

I've been practicing train hopping.

I'm getting pretty good!

[K.C.]

And the solution to this economic crisis will be....?

Sell as much to foreign interests as possible.


...yeah, that's a good idea.

[Tall_James]

http://www.guresmania.net/pics/duggan/04.jpg

USA! USA! USA!

[Furtherman]

I cant wait to move to California and mine for gold when the Great Depression II strikes

Will you be selling trips around Cape Horn?

[mendyweiss]

Yeah, But We Make Twinkies !!!

[Tall_James]

I cant wait to move to California and mine for gold when the Great Depression II strikes

You'd make a great old grizzled prospecter, by cracky!

[DolaMight]

Who’ll Bail Out Uncle Sam?
CBS' Mark Knoller On The National Debt, And Who Picks Up the Tab

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/17/notebook/main4455247.shtml

In fact, the government doesn’t have the $85 billion needed to bailout insurance giant American International Group.

The treasury department announced this morning it would auction new debt to raise funds for the Federal Reserve’s rescue plan for AIG.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Will you be selling trips around Cape Horn?

nope all I will have is my family, my old prospector's hat and pants made out of tattered brochures of what used to be a good sales career

we'll make it to California, we'll make it

[JimmieHats]

Can we start talking in that clicky language and have poison dart guns?

[Snoogans]

this seems like a pretty good place to unveil the plan.

So far me, Kevin, Mojo, and epo, plus possibly that sissy Fallon are gonna head on up to Vancouver if McCain wins the election. Hop on board, we can just make a huge moving party

[Tall_James]

nope all I will have is my family, my old prospector's hat and pants made out of tattered brochures of what used to be a good sales career

we'll make it to California, we'll make it

Thank you Tom Joad.

[Furtherman]

So far me, Kevin, Mojo, and epo, plus possibly that sissy Fallon are gonna head on up to Vancouver if McCain wins the election. Hop on board, we can just make a huge moving party

Can we take Greyhound? Because I need to stay on the bus forever.

[Tall_James]

So far me, Kevin, Mojo, and epo, plus possibly that sissy Fallon are gonna head on up to Vancouver if McCain wins the election. Hop on board, we can just make a huge moving party

No way man! I subscribe to what this rocking song says!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UmwXZZmmjB8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UmwXZZmmjB8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[K.C.]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/17/notebook/main4455247.shtml

John McCain: I won't raise taxes!
Barack Obama: I won't raise taxes!


Maybe it's just me.....I don't know....but usually when you spend money, you have to actually SPEND THE MONEY!

And seeing as the U.S. government is not taking in money...

...well, it would just seem that we're running a higher tab.



We're a nation of dirty debters who will be performing slave labor for the Chinese for the next century.

[K.C.]

this seems like a pretty good place to unveil the plan.

So far me, Kevin, Mojo, and epo, plus possibly that sissy Fallon are gonna head on up to Vancouver if McCain wins the election. Hop on board, we can just make a huge moving party

I'm in!

[Freakshow]

Can we take Greyhound? Because I need to stay on the bus forever.

hmm. Greyhound to Canada? I guess you're not too attached to that head of yours...

[King Hippos Bandaid]

shh, you dont want "The Great Wall of Canada" to be built

down low people, down low

[IamFogHat]

Uhhhhhhh...



:furious:

[Knowledged_one]

Obviously you've never been to Flint, MI, Chester, PA, or North Philadelphia



Uhhhhhhh...


If China called all our debt tomorrow, we'd default


Have you seen US infrastructure lately?


It's coming


On the rise


Gas and food...and gas and food.

I have seen all of those places hardly mud huts, i would bet that any person from a real 3rd world country would move in a heartbeat to those areas

Education - You think the US is not as smart as most countries, how many have put men on the moon or developed as much technology as othyer countries?

If we called in our debt on other countries well then maybe we wouldnt default

Public Utilities - Sorry no frequent blackouts across the country, no need to throw away used toilet paper because the septic systems cant handle it, better roads then most countries across the world

Low GDP - its coming? Prove it

High Unemployment - Its at 6.1% same as china so i guess China is 3rd world right?

Scarcity of Goods - There is no food shortage other then maybe the areas in Texas that just got hit by the hurricane and there is no gas shortage

Seriously love it or leave it

[K.C.]

Seriously love it or leave it

See Snoogans post.

[KatPw]

Can we start talking in that clicky language and have poison dart guns?

And partake of hallucinogens :clap:

[Freakshow]

See Snoogans post.

sweet. more for me. I call michigan.

[Recyclerz]

You're now officially a third world country!

Who's the big winner? We're the big winner! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Spoken like someone who peeked at his current 401(k) balance this week.

With the end of the Cold War I think the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world classifications got retired.

Just think of America as a past her prime beauty pageant contestant but who is still hot enough to get the hayseeds all worked up.

[K.C.]

And to answer the rest of these questions:


Education - You think the US is not as smart as most countries, how many have put men on the moon or developed as much technology as othyer countries?

That was 50 years ago!! And most of our 'tech' is now created in China or Japan.

Kids are retarded today. Look at the schools.


If we called in our debt on other countries well then maybe we wouldnt default

Somehow I doubt it. I mean, it's a quite LARGE debt.

Public Utilities - Sorry no frequent blackouts across the country, no need to throw away used toilet paper because the septic systems cant handle it, better roads then most countries across the world

So the standard is now whether we're better than Zimbabwe? That's comforting. Seriously, when was the last major infrastructure project?

Why do you think Rendell, the Governator, and Bloomberg are on their whirlwind 'save infrastructure' tour? It's a shame no one's listening.

Low GDP - its coming? Prove it

What the hell do we make???? ...except for debt.

High Unemployment - Its at 6.1% same as china so i guess China is 3rd world right?

China has a billion people, and they pay most their manufacturer's pennies. Again, China is the standard for workers in this country?? Again...comforting.

Scarcity of Goods - There is no food shortage other then maybe the areas in Texas that just got hit by the hurricane and there is no gas shortage


People are being priced out of both.

That's a step away from shortage. You may not be affected, but there's only so much people can take.

[Knowledged_one]

And to answer the rest of these questions:



That was 50 years ago!! And most of our 'tech' is now created in China or Japan.

Kids are retarded today. Look at the schools.




Somehow I doubt it. I mean, it's a quite LARGE debt.



So the standard is now whether we're better than Zimbabwe? That's comforting. Seriously, when was the last major infrastructure project?

Why do you think Rendell, the Governator, and Bloomberg are on their whirlwind 'save infrastructure' tour? It's a shame no one's listening.



What the hell do we make???? ...except for debt.



China has a billion people, and they pay most their manufacturer's pennies. Again, China is the standard for workers in this country?? Again...comforting.



People are being priced out of both.

That's a step away from shortage. You may not be affected, but there's only so much people can take.

I cant wait for you to join Alec Baldwin in Canada then at the start of December, but somehow i think you will still be here in the US complaining about things and hating your own country good for you

[Knowledged_one]

And partake of hallucinogens :clap:

and lick toads?

[K.C.]

i think you will still be here in the US complaining about things and hating your own country good for you

Why is criticizing the fact that we're racing to the bottom at lightning fast speed 'hating your country.'

Should I just sit on my front steps waving an American flag and staring into the distance?

You seem to take this angle with anyone who critiques a bit, though, from what I've noticed.

[ANC]

Thank you, thank you sooo much...I promised myself I wouldn't cry..

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/08-america-ferrera-globe-400a021307.jpg

[Caseyelan]

No way man! I subscribe to what this rocking song says!

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and I'LL GLADLY STAND UP....... NEXT TO YOU.......


to quote david cross: WELL HERES YOUR CHANCE ASSHOLE, GRAB A GUN AND ENLIST

[DarkHippie]

Education - You think the US is not as smart as most countries, how many have put men on the moon or developed as much technology as othyer countries?

We haven't been to the moon in 30-something years. Once we were among the best educated, but we have only given lip service to education since the 80's. Worse, an anti-intellectual culture has sprung up, making it 'ok,' even preferable to be uneducated, and has portrayed smart people as 'unamerican.' Worse, the NCLB act has absolutely destroyed our education system. Worse than you can imagine. Entire regions will rot and die because this next generation cannot read.

If we called in our debt on other countries well then maybe we wouldnt default
You know as well as I do that most of the debt owed to us was actually loaned by the WTO. We would get bubkis

Public Utilities - Sorry no frequent blackouts across the country, no need to throw away used toilet paper because the septic systems cant handle it, better roads then most countries across the world

Cant argue that, although the energy crunch is making power very costly. We have to make alternative energy a real priority instead of just tickling its balls.

Low GDP - its coming? Prove it

Can't, but our economy is shaky, the money we have to dish out to bail these banks out is not gonna make things rosier


High Unemployment - Its at 6.1% same as china so i guess China is 3rd world right? Are we really trying to be like China now?

I think an even bigger problem is underemployment. For example, I have a Bachelor's Degree and 3 years teaching experience. I take home 250$ a week working as a teacher's aide. There are no jobs available for me to advance anywhere.

I'm not alone. One of my best friends has a Master's in Music Ed and one in Special Ed. She can't find a teaching job anywhere and gives piano lessons for a living.

Scarcity of Goods - There is no food shortage other then maybe the areas in Texas that just got hit by the hurricane and there is no gas shortage

This will never ever be an issue in America (unless the corn crop fails) We have an overabundance of everything

Seriously love it or leave it

Dude, don't do that.

[KatPw]

and lick toads?
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[Tall_James]

to quote david cross: WELL HERES YOUR CHANCE ASSHOLE, GRAB A GUN AND ENLIST

Uh, I would but....er....I have to....HEY LOOK - IT'S LOU RAWLS!"

(sneaks away)

[Freakshow]

If we go down, we take the whole world with us.

[jennysmurf]

If we go down, we take the whole world with us.

Exactly. So why can't we all just get along?

[Knowledged_one]

Why is criticizing the fact that we're racing to the bottom at lightning fast speed 'hating your country.'

Should I just sit on my front steps waving an American flag and staring into the distance?

You seem to take this angle with anyone who critiques a bit, though, from what I've noticed.

My angle is very black and white not a whole lot of grays, you dont like america you think its sinking therefore you want to move to Canada, the same threat that Hollywood stars made with the Bush elections yet it doesnt happen.

You chose to see the US sinking and being bad, i see the US as going through a tough time much like it has happened before and will rebound from it.

So let me ask you this then, what have you done for your country then to stop it from racing to the bottom as you say?

Its like you talk about infrastructure projects, what would be one infratstructure pronject that should be worked on then for example

[K.C.]

If we go down, we take the whole world with us.

Looks like the world's coming with us.

DOW closed down another 400.

[K.C.]

My angle is very black and white not a whole lot of grays, you dont like america you think its sinking therefore you want to move to Canada, the same threat that Hollywood stars made with the Bush elections yet it doesnt happen.

You chose to see the US sinking and being bad, i see the US as going through a tough time much like it has happened before and will rebound from it.

So let me ask you this then, what have you done for your country then to stop it from racing to the bottom as you say?

Its like you talk about infrastructure projects, what would be one infratstructure pronject that should be worked on then for example


The Canada thing is a joke (...I think).

And if your way of looking at things, if you're describing it accurately, is true...that's one of the scariest things I've ever heard.

You're basically saying that America can do no wrong, and no one should believe otherwise.



As for infrastructure, there's been plenty of request throughout the country to rebuild crumbling highway, and bridges.

Maybe stronger levys in the Gulf (just a thought...)

Border security projects would be another good one.

One of the major aspects of the New Deal that the brought us out of the Great Depression was 'putting Americans to work rebuilding America.'

[El Mudo]

this seems like a pretty good place to unveil the plan.

So far me, Kevin, Mojo, and epo, plus possibly that sissy Fallon are gonna head on up to Vancouver if McCain wins the election. Hop on board, we can just make a huge moving party


Vancouver? Pssh...Montreal's where its at

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/1/16/full/124.gif

Enjoy rooting for the poo poo Canucks suckers :tongue: :tongue:

[TheMojoPin]

America: Fix it and make it better or GTFO.

[TheMojoPin]

One of the major aspects of the New Deal that the brought us out of the Great Depression was 'putting Americans to work rebuilding America.'

Almost all of the New Deal programs were ultimately short term "bandaid" fixes that were ultimately failures in regards to getting America "out of" the Depression. I'm as Liberal Lucy as they come, but WW2 is what hauled the economy out of the basement. Without it, FDR's New Deal would almost certainly have not amounted to squat in the long run.

[Knowledged_one]

We haven't been to the moon in 30-something years. Once we were among the best educated, but we have only given lip service to education since the 80's. Worse, an anti-intellectual culture has sprung up, making it 'ok,' even preferable to be uneducated, and has portrayed smart people as 'unamerican.' Worse, the NCLB act has absolutely destroyed our education system. Worse than you can imagine. Entire regions will rot and die because this next generation cannot read.


You know as well as I do that most of the debt owed to us was actually loaned by the WTO. We would get bubkis



Cant argue that, although the energy crunch is making power very costly. We have to make alternative energy a real priority instead of just tickling its balls.



Can't, but our economy is shaky, the money we have to dish out to bail these banks out is not gonna make things rosier


Are we really trying to be like China now?

I think an even bigger problem is underemployment. For example, I have a Bachelor's Degree and 3 years teaching experience. I take home 250$ a week working as a teacher's aide. There are no jobs available for me to advance anywhere.

I'm not alone. One of my best friends has a Master's in Music Ed and one in Special Ed. She can't find a teaching job anywhere and gives piano lessons for a living.



This will never ever be an issue in America (unless the corn crop fails) We have an overabundance of everything



Dude, don't do that.

You are right we havent been to the moon, but we have done multiple missions to Mars and exploring outer space - the moon was just the first thing i thought of since so few countries have been to the moon. And there are areas where the US has slipped in education but to put us on the level of 3rd world countries is an absolute abomination, considering the advances that the US has made such huge advances in things such as biosciences, bioengineering, aerospace development etc etc. And it sucks to say and most people dont want to hear it but the huge influx of immigrants both legal and illegal and the general lack of drive in the inner cities to improve their stake in life will drive some areas down in education...and because of this malaise we have gotten into a bad cycle with inner city schools-students-teachers

Im not saying that we would be able to pay off all debt that is true, but on the same hand its very unlikely that China would call in this debt

I agree 100% with the need for alternative energies both renewable and clean and those that the US doesnt use like we should (nuclear power)

I also agree that having to bail a lot of these companies out is not a good thing, but its better then the alternative wouldnt you agree?

My point on unemployment rates is that it is rising it is not anywhere near the levels of either 3rd world countries or most industrialized countries. And yes it is definetly tough to find employment in specialties (trust me i have a bs in ME and AE and am not working really in either field) but at times you have to do things you dont want to before you find the job you are looking for

And as far as love it or leave it, i wasnt the one that said that if McCain wins the election then i am moving to Canada

[El Mudo]

The Canada thing is a joke (...I think).

And if your way of looking at things, if you're describing it accurately, is true...that's one of the scariest things I've ever heard.

You're basically saying that America can do no wrong, and no one should believe otherwise.



As for infrastructure, there's been plenty of request throughout the country to rebuild crumbling highway, and bridges.

Maybe stronger levys in the Gulf (just a thought...)

Border security projects would be another good one.

One of the major aspects of the New Deal that the brought us out of the Great Depression was 'putting Americans to work rebuilding America.'

The New Deal didn't bring us out of The Depression....World War Two did

People forget that there was a recession in the middle of the Depression itself, in the mid 30s

[El Mudo]

And Huey Long pushed Roosevelt farther to the left than he EVER wanted to go

[Knowledged_one]

Almost all of the New Deal programs were ultimately short term "bandaid" fixes that were ultimately failures in regards to getting America "out of" the Depression. I'm as Liberal Lucy as they come, but WW2 is what hauled the economy out of the basement. Without it, FDR's New Deal would almost certainly have not amounted to squat in the long run.

And i believe that the FDR new deal stuff is what ultimately led to the US starting to accrue the national debt that we have now

[Knowledged_one]

The Canada thing is a joke (...I think).

And if your way of looking at things, if you're describing it accurately, is true...that's one of the scariest things I've ever heard.

You're basically saying that America can do no wrong, and no one should believe otherwise.



As for infrastructure, there's been plenty of request throughout the country to rebuild crumbling highway, and bridges.

Maybe stronger levys in the Gulf (just a thought...)

Border security projects would be another good one.

One of the major aspects of the New Deal that the brought us out of the Great Depression was 'putting Americans to work rebuilding America.'

Im not saying that in the least that america can do no wrong but to compare america to a 3rd world country with no back up tends to make an american like myself get upset about things when its just a blatant false and untrue statement with no factual back up

[El Mudo]

And i believe that the FDR new deal stuff is what ultimately led to the US starting to accrue the national debt that we have now

That's due to the Keynesian Economic theory of "deficit spending"

Following John Maynard Keynes, many economists recommend deficit spending in order to moderate or end a recession, especially a severe one. When the economy has high unemployment, an increase in government purchases creates a market for business output, creating income and encouraging increases in consumer spending, which creates further increases in the demand for business output. (This is the multiplier effect). This raises the real gross domestic product (GDP) and the employment of labor, all else constant lowering the unemployment rate. (The connection between demand for GDP and unemployment is called Okun's Law.) Cutting personal taxes and/or raising transfer payments can have similar expansionary effects, though most economists would say that such policies have weaker effects. Which method has a better stimulative economic effect is a matter of debate.

[Freakshow]

Almost all of the New Deal programs were ultimately short term "bandaid" fixes that were ultimately failures in regards to getting America "out of" the Depression. I'm as Liberal Lucy as they come, but WW2 is what hauled the economy out of the basement. Without it, FDR's New Deal would almost certainly have not amounted to squat in the long run.

Well, this thread maybe the answer, then. (http://ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73008) I heard Pakistan called us fat... :flush:

[Recyclerz]

Its like you talk about infrastructure projects, what would be one infratstructure pronject that should be worked on then for example

OK, let's start with the power grid.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/27/business/27grid.html?scp=1&sq=power%20grid&st=cse

[Recyclerz]

America: Fix it and make it better or GTFO.

Catchy.

Better than my "OK Hayseeds, get out of the car slowly and keep your hands where I can see them!"

[Knowledged_one]

OK, let's start with the power grid.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/27/business/27grid.html?scp=1&sq=power%20grid&st=cse

That article was a good read, i read something about the solar farms they are starting in the South West and the problems it would face, but you are right the power grid would probably be a very good infrastructure project................if the US is really committed to using these alternate sources of energy that is

[K.C.]

The New Deal didn't bring us out of The Depression....World War Two did

People forget that there was a recession in the middle of the Depression itself, in the mid 30s

World War II ultimately brought up out of the Depression for good, but the New Deal provided an adequate short term solution to an economy that was in transition.

This economy is in transition...to what exactly, I have no fucking clue...but the bottom line is that the middle class is disappearing, and for a functional economy, there has to be the reality (or at least the illusion) that the poor can move from poor to middle class.


Now would be a good time to spring some infrastructure projects and create some jobs while we're still try to figure where the hell this country is going economically. We're certainly not going back to being an industrial manufacturing country.



I agree 100% on Huey Long. FDR was conservative for his day. There were many, MANY more people who were pushing for a more socialist, borderline communist society.

If not for FDR's leadership, and willingness to bend but not break, this would easily be a more socialist country.


Not that we're capitalist today....we're not. We're a socialist-capitalist hybrid.

[DarkHippie]

America: Fix it and make it better or GTFO.

that would make about 90% of america gtfo. Most people dont give a damn beyond thier own families and friends.

[oldladyfacepuncher]

I miss the old opening

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[Snoogans]

Vancouver? Pssh...Montreal's where its at

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/1/16/full/124.gif

Enjoy rooting for the poo poo Canucks suckers :tongue: :tongue:

enjoy learning french and being hated by everyone idiot

[El Mudo]

enjoy learning french and being hated by everyone idiot


French Canadian chicks vs. British Columbia chicks....I win

And I can not only communicate all over the world with French, but flip passionate, naive hot American chicks into thinking I have class just because I speak French, therefore getting me laid even more

And everyone hates the Habs cause theyre the Habs...and the rest of us aren't


Patrick Roy FTW

http://www3.sympatico.ca/thehockeyattic/roywink2.jpg

[Friday]

High Unemployment?

Well i think the answer to all of those are no, so i dont think the US is a 3rd world country

darlin... you may be a lucky SOB who hasn't had to really see in his own life and the lives of friends just how high unemployment is... but that doesn't mean it hasn't hit some notable milestones in this past year or so.
even Dubya passed an unemployment benefits extension for those who run out of funds.

so count your blessings... and be thankful you have a decent job with insurance.
it is something no longer to be taken for granted.

[Snoogans]

French Canadian chicks vs. British Columbia chicks....




















....I win....

Soory, I didn't know you have met everyone in Vancouver and Montreal. I've been to Montreal, it fuckin blew. They acted like assholes to me pretty much every where that I went. No fuckin desire to be anywhere near that shit. Plus they have legal buds in Vancouver, a university, and the Olympics in 2010.

[El Mudo]

Soory, I didn't know you have met everyone in Vancouver and Montreal. I've been to Montreal, it fuckin blew. They acted like assholes to me pretty much every where that I went. No fuckin desire to be anywhere near that shit. Plus they have legal buds in Vancouver, a university, and the Olympics in 2010.

They don't have universities in Quebec?

They don't have an 18 drinking age?

And Montreal already had the Olympics

[epo]

and I'LL GLADLY STAND UP....... NEXT TO YOU.......

to quote david cross: WELL HERES YOUR CHANCE ASSHOLE, GRAB A GUN AND ENLIST

Kudos to you Casey.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H3Bb-pZTcmQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H3Bb-pZTcmQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Snoogans]

They don't have universities in Quebec?

They don't have an 18 drinking age?

And Montreal already had the Olympics

Im over 21, I dont wanna deal with french, and YEA THEY ALREADY HAD IT. Which would make it kinda hard to go check out wouldn't it?

[Tall_James]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e53/slik_1000/1173703405017.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Heres an interesting piece on Credit Default Swaps and how they contributed to this mess

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080917/bs_ibd_ibd/20080917general

[scottinnj]

John McCain: I won't raise taxes!
Barack Obama: I won't raise taxes!

The problem is that both of them are going to raise taxes.


I have no idea why Obama is saying he won't when he already said he will, unless he means "I won't raise taxes" on incomes below 250,000 dollars.

McCain has been disengenious the whole campaign. The Health Savings Accounts he wants to set up to help pay for health insurance is going to be paid by taxing the cost of your health insurance premiums, if you have health insurance through your employer.

It's either a tax on what you pay into the premium each month, or its simply adding the cost of the annual cost of the premium to your taxable income. If McCain has his way, that "bennie" we all rely on to combat the cost of healthcare will now be a headache on April 15th.

Thanks for the "straight talk" John.

Oh, and get this: I told this to my brother-in-law who plans to vote for McCain, and he said he doesn't care.

I guess getting your healthcare premium taxed is better then a black man in the White House.

[TheMojoPin]

World War II ultimately brought up out of the Depression for good, but the New Deal provided an adequate short term solution to an economy that was in transition.

Nay. The New Deal had massive social and cultural impacts in the long run, but economically they were almost all busts. Anyone looking at them honestly needs to recognize the "perfect timing" of how WW2 progressed and developed. Sans the war economy (including before America actually entered), the New Deal programs weren't going to provide any kind of lasting impact and weren't designed for a "transition economy."

[A.J.]

Almost all of the New Deal programs were ultimately short term "bandaid" fixes that were ultimately failures in regards to getting America "out of" the Depression. I'm as Liberal Lucy as they come, but WW2 is what hauled the economy out of the basement. Without it, FDR's New Deal would almost certainly have not amounted to squat in the long run.

And i believe that the FDR new deal stuff is what ultimately led to the US starting to accrue the national debt that we have now

Nay. The New Deal had massive social and cultural impacts in the long run, but economically they were almost all busts. Anyone looking at them honestly needs to recognize the "perfect timing" of how WW2 progressed and developed. Sans the war economy (including before America actually entered), the New Deal programs weren't going to provide any kind of lasting impact and weren't designed for a "transition economy."

"This country was ruined by Franklin Delano Roooosevelt!"

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/071112/coconnor_l.jpg

[Knowledged_one]

darlin... you may be a lucky SOB who hasn't had to really see in his own life and the lives of friends just how high unemployment is... but that doesn't mean it hasn't hit some notable milestones in this past year or so.
even Dubya passed an unemployment benefits extension for those who run out of funds.

so count your blessings... and be thankful you have a decent job with insurance.
it is something no longer to be taken for granted.

Friday

Believe me i have been through it. I had a job making over $65k a year, lost that job because of cuts in military contracts because of the war in Iraq. I was out of work for 9 months, no insurance, and actually had to cash in my 401K so that i could pay my bills. I then had another job where i lost my job on a Monday at 4:00 in the evening, just got a phone call cancelling my contract. At this time i had only one month left on my current lease and was trying to find a job on October 1 of last year. I was lucky enough to find a job within that month, but had to move my entire life from Indianapolis to where i live in Ohio while taking an almost $25,000 pay cut.

And most of my jobs are contract jobs and had absolutely horrible health insurance because I was a contractor and was paying for that through the roof myself.

And as far as hitting me personally, well my dad lost his job about 15 months ago and hasnt been able to find anything since then. While at the same time they are trying to sell one house with a $3k mortgage while having just purchased a house prior to the current housing crisis. I also have a brother who ran his own mortgage company that he just had to close about 2 months ago. So i fully know the problems of people going through this. My point was that a 6.1% unemployment rate is not that bad in all consideration of the rest of the world. I am fully aware of the effects that unemployment has on people in this country