What is the nationality of a child in this situation?

[RF Godfather]

HordeKing, I was wondering about this one for a while but finally decided to post this. Say there is a luxury cruise ship in international waters and a child is born in between the border of two countries, for argument sake in the Atlantic Ocean. Would the child be British, American or whatever the mother of the child is?

You guess is as good as mine.

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This message was edited by RonFez Mark on 12-20-01 @ 6:31 PM

[HordeKing1]

*This is only a guess, should the situation arise consult an immigration lawyer.*

I suspect that the child would assume citizenship of his or her mother's country.

International water is considered just that. Proximity to a particular country wouldn't seem relevant.



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[furie]

RFMark:
I was an Immigration agent
for 4 years. i can field this
one.
There are two sections of
law for this. Jue Solei and
Jue Sange.
Jue Solei (law of location)
means the child's
citizenship is determined by
birth.
Now, international water for
the most part would mean
this law doesn't apply.
There are some exceptions
however. Since everyship
has a registry with a certain
country and therefore that
ship is considered an
extension of that country's
soil. For example: All
Carnival crusie ships are
registered to either Panama
or Mali. If the ship is
Panamanian that child id
panamanian. Mali doesn't
recognize Jue Solei on the
ships only land so this
doesn't work for ships
registered to Mali. US
doesn't recognize Jue Solei
on sips either.

Jue Sange (law of blood) is
obvious. But countries have
diffrent parent requirments.
US needs only one parent
to be a natural born citizen
for the child to be a us
citizen at birth regardless of
where the child id born. If
the parent is a naturalized
US citizen; the parent has to
have 5 years of residence in
the US as a citizen(time as
a resident alien doesn't
count for Jue Sange) for the
child to be a citizen at birth
regardless of location.

Any questions?





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[HordeKing1]

FURIE - Thanks.

One question - if a ship qualifies it as an extension of the country of register, how can they be searched?

Wouldn't they be regarded as having the same status of embasies?

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[RF Godfather]

Hmmm... I didn't think this question would be so involved... I'll wait till this question materializes more.

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[furie]

Section 8 of the Code of Federal Regulations(CFR) The US has the right to inspect any vessel or warship that enters her waters. It's not the same as an embassy. An Embassy is considered the soil of that country. If a child is born in an embassy of say Mali here in the US, that child is not a US citizen, he would be Mali. The ship scenerio is different. each country either makes a provision for this in their law or they don't.

Hmmm... I didn't think this question would be so involved... I'll wait till this question materializes more.

immigration law can be quite involved, but it's easy to get a hold of it after a while.


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[HordeKing1]

You made it clear in your prior post that there is a distinction b/w ships and embassies.

My question is this. Regarding ships, you said that "...[the] ship is considered an extension of that country's soil."

So is an embassy. Why is the jurisdicion of embassy inviolable and the ship not?

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[furie]

Because not every country considers a ship the soverign soil of a country. that's a country-by-country basis. I think embassy imunity comes from CFR 2(not 100% on the section of state dept law. where as ships are covered in CFR 8.
Now, to the reason why ships can be searched and not embassies is because embassies don't move. the ship, and everything and one is searched. we don't search the embassy, but since it's in the US, everyone and everything in there had been searched at the boarder(seaport+airport considered boarder).
Now, Usually INS and Customs do not inspect diplomatic aircraft and warships. But it's still inspected because everything coming in has to be searched. This is done either by State dpt DS or secret service.

does that help a little?

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[reeshy]

When I was in th USCG, one of my collateral duties was as a member of a boarding and inspection team. As long as we had information that the ship was heading to a US port (usually has to be filed) and we had information and reasonable suspicion that the ship was carrying contraband, then we could board said ship regardless of the flag it was flying. Military ships are a different matter!

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[reeshy]

Damn these double posts!

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This message was edited by reeshy on 12-21-01 @ 4:10 PM

[furie]

Military ships are sometimes inspected by INS/Customs teams. I remember once I got to go onboard HMS ArcRoyale. The reason INS was there, some of the crew was no departing with the ship, but were being transfered to the Jax airstation for NATO training.
It was interesting. First carrier i was ever on, not including USS Intrepid.

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[HordeKing1]

FURIE - You wrote that everything in embassies are inspected before coming into the country.

Is that really the case? I was under the impression that diplomat's can carry things immune to searches into the country.

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[furie]

only diplomatic mail is
excempt inspection. but that
parcel must remain
underthe control of state
department DS. and the
courier is inspected by INS.
So, most things are
inspected. my main point is
that everyONE is inspected
at the boarder.
but the naturalization rules
for ships and embassies
are diffrent because they
are handled under diffrent
sections of law.




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[Ixia Naar]

this was an interesting tread and i'm glad i learned somthing from it
now only 93 more posts and i can go to FMJeffs new years party lol :)