View Full Version : Were the Founding Fathers Atheists?
adolescentmasturbator
12-21-2001, 10:03 AM
I've been reading up on Atheists on the past lately and I've been surprised as to what I've learned.
Obviously we all know that Thomas Paine was an athiest and he was the pen while Washington was the sword. But I'm surprised to learn that though Washington, Adams, and possibly Jefferson(though I haven't read his views yet) were Atheists but advocated religon because they believed the masses needed it.
So is this true? Were the founding fathers Atheists?
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vegeta
12-21-2001, 10:08 AM
Who gives a damn? The founding fathers weren't gods. they were normal guys who were in power and they had some rules to make. They were not on the straight and narrow. Everyone in a position of authority has something that makes them unworthy in the eyes of the public.
Any anyways, this country was built as a result of some not-so-nice events in history. If I was god, I'd scrap the planet and start over.
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HordeKing1
12-21-2001, 10:19 AM
There's a terrific website called "Famous Dead Atheists." They have quite a list. My favorite is the comments of Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain).
Religion has been used as a means of social control since it's inception.
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This message was edited by HordeKing1 on 12-21-01 @ 2:23 PM
vegeta
12-21-2001, 10:23 AM
Look at you, King, being controversial!
Yeah, well my opinion on religion is that it gives some people a reason to live and it gives other people reason to hate other people (homosexuals, people of certain ethnicity, etc.)
I'm not really religious, but I do believe that there had to be some type of force who created all of the complicated things we find on this planet. Whether he sees, hears and knows all and had a son who died for us is anyone's guess.
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HordeKing1
12-21-2001, 10:40 AM
VEGETA - I agree that religion is a means of separating people into baseless hatreds and causing further divisions. It's another obstacle to us all getting along.
You know my views on relgion. I vaugely recall discussing them before. ;)
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fatty
12-21-2001, 10:45 AM
hordeking1 forgot one point, religion is also a big money making scam. God needs money you know
it's true,
it's damn true!
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adolescentmasturbator
12-21-2001, 10:46 AM
Psst Vegeta I'm an Atheist so I wouldn't think it would be bad for them to be Atheists as well.
If they were Atheists it would certainly be a great way to shut up the idiots that say that Atheists are immoral because this country was based on religon.
And Vegeta I think you are classified as a Deist.
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vegeta
12-21-2001, 10:50 AM
I don't care what religion or lack of it a person in government has. I just want him to do his or her job and do it right.
And while we're on religion and everything, why do we still have the same Pledge of Alliegance and why does money still say "in god we trust" on it?
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adolescentmasturbator
12-21-2001, 10:59 AM
We still have "In God We Trust", etc. because the politicians fear anything Atheist. And I'm speaking for both parties. Don't even try to argue for the Democracts because Gore and Lieberman have said stuff like, "Freedom of religon, not freedom from religon". For a vast library of quotes from not only politicans but more check out <A HREF="http://www.positiveatheism.org">this</A>
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furie
12-21-2001, 01:22 PM
The founding fathers were all Masons. The Masons are a christian brotherhood with it's roots in the Templar Knights. So I don't see how they could have been atheists.
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This message was edited by furie on 12-21-01 @ 5:24 PM
adolescentmasturbator
12-21-2001, 03:00 PM
Well Washington has been said to accept Atheism as an ok way to think(which was very progressive for the time) though I don't he was necesarily one. Go <A HREF="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/washframe.htm">here</A>. Apparently he was a deist. The main page has the other founding fathers as well.
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vegeta
12-22-2001, 12:41 AM
Well, if you're into christianity, then you know that Lucifer was part of a group too and look what he did!
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NewYorkDragons80
12-22-2001, 08:25 AM
HK, you showed me that site a few months ago. According to that, Thomas Paine is Agnostic and Madison is an atheist. Jefferson and Franklin were deists.
I have trouble believing that a lot of them were atheists because they set up a government based on the Ideas of the Enlightenment. Most of those Philosophers like Voltaire and Pope were deists. I'm sure there were some atheists. AM, I'm curious, can you show me where you found this?
Just for the record, anyone who knows me here knows I'm very pro-faith.
"THOSE BASTARDS"
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"May God bless us in this trial, comfort us, strengthen our resolve, and make our justice as terrible and certain as His."
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This message was edited by NewYorkDragons80 on 12-22-01 @ 12:34 PM
Doogie
12-22-2001, 08:35 AM
Well I have always viewed religion as a fraternity and if you break the rules you will be thrown out of it...Just look at Galileo Galilee, he said that the Earth was not the center of the universe and he was thrown out of Catholic Church and forced to retract statement. 300 years later the church issues a reprieve to him...as for our founding fathers, I like the arguments that the founding fathers were Athiests, very intelligent points brought up. One thing the founding fathers definetly were though were Anti-Catholic...that is why I have stated that the phrase "seperation of church and state" should really read "sepeartion of Catholic church and state"...I mean look there was only one Roman Catholic president. And look at the ordeal Kennedy had to go through in debates in relation to Catholicism...people thought he would confess national secrets to the Pope!! And he was assasinated. Coincidence, I think not!!!
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furie
12-22-2001, 08:57 AM
˙ Well, if you're into
christianity, then you know
that Lucifer was part of a
group too and look what he
did!
what does that have to do
with Atheisim?
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adolescentmasturbator
12-22-2001, 12:50 PM
Most of those Philosophers like Voltaire and Pope were deists.
I'm pretty sure Voltaire was at least an Agnostic if not Atheist.
As for my source it was postiveatheism.org which I just linked to in my previous post.
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NewYorkDragons80
12-23-2001, 06:07 PM
In my European History class last year we were told Voltaire was a deist.
Most of these philosophers' quotes are how you interpret them, so it's probably debatable. I don't know any of his quotes concerning theology, but we did learn his most famous. "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
"THOSE BASTARDS"
-Norman Schwartzkoff
"May God bless us in this trial, comfort us, strengthen our resolve, and make our justice as terrible and certain as His."
-Senator John McCain
"Neitzche is dead"
-God
vegeta
12-23-2001, 06:13 PM
Some of the greatest men in history claimed no religion.
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Se7en
12-24-2001, 07:00 PM
Well, I'm inclined to believe that, at the least, they believed in a God. Whether they were hellfire-and-brimstone Bible-thumpers is something I wouldn't know. They were all largely humanists, though, so it wouldn't be unusual for them to adopt many secular practices and philosophies.
But guess what - if they were deeply religious (or atheist), IT WOULDN'T CHANGE A THING. They were still great men who did great things. They weren't perfect, but I believe part of why our country is so great is because of the foundation they laid for us.
And might I add, though, to be fair, that ultimately we will each choose what we want to believe about them, perhaps even regardless of the evidence. If we want them to be atheist, that's what we will swear they are. If we want them to be Christian, that's what they will be to us.
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vegeta
12-26-2001, 03:10 AM
In my opinion, a member of government has to believe in the country he's working for and nothing else. If you kill goats and first borns in your spare time, I could care less. Just run the damn rock we call America
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furie
12-26-2001, 06:22 AM
I think the found fathers were no very religious. Government first seems to be the mindset. the religious bible thumpers didn't have nearly as much power then as they do now.
damn lobbiest!
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Religion has been used as a means of social control since it's inception.
Bravo, Herr Horde K”nig!!! Those are my sentiments, exactly!!! I have always believed religion was installed and maintained by all oligarchies throughout the ages, basically to complement the government by causing the "great unwashed" to submit to authority one way or another. If the government couldn't make you a good tax-paying citizen, then the church certainly would, by its intimidation tactics, through the fear of the unknown. And of course its also the best way to commercialize spirituality ($).
But I'm surprised to learn that though Washington, Adams, and possibly Jefferson(though I haven't read his views yet)
From what I've read about my hero, Thomas Jefferson, he was a Deist. A Deist is someone that believes that there is a supreme being that created the universe, but left it to its own demise (sort of like a watchmaker making a clock, then leaving it to be tended to by whoever purchased it)
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NewYorkDragons80
12-27-2001, 01:06 PM
I was thinking about this and another thing came to mind. Deism was such a strong movement during the French Revolution that it was named the official religion of France. Catholics were forced to pledge their allegiance to France before the Pope and ATHEISM was outlawed as "Aristocratic." I wish we kept 2 things from deism; The calendars and the names. People had first names like Constitution, Freedom, and Liberty. The Calendar was similar to ours, but at the end of every year, there was a period of days (5?) set aside completely for celebrating.
"THOSE BASTARDS"
-Norman Schwartzkoff
"May God bless us in this trial, comfort us, strengthen our resolve, and make our justice as terrible and certain as His."
-Senator John McCain
"Neitzche is dead"
-God
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