View Full Version : Obama Market Tail Spin?
KingKill
11-13-2008, 09:00 PM
The market is tanking since the election.
Is Obama refusal to back off his capital gains tax increase causing profit taking?
I wish he would come off the old 95% cut speech and say
I will not raise taxes in the face of a market meltdown and recession.
I guess its more important to give 40% of the people who do not pay any taxes additional welfare in the form of a income tax credit.
TheMojoPin
11-13-2008, 09:02 PM
The market is tanking since the election.
Is Obama refusal to back off his capital gains tax increase causing profit taking?
Very doubtful. The president-elect rarely has significant effect on the market outside of election day until they take office.
KingKill
11-13-2008, 09:13 PM
The fact that last Democratic president raised taxes with in a month of entering office after saying he would not would make me want to take some profits rather than wait and see.
The fact that last Democratic president raised taxes with in a month of entering office after saying he would not would make me want to take some profits rather than wait and see.
And that, as we all remember, ended in DISASTER OMGWTF!?>!?<!?><!?>!<
PapaBear
11-13-2008, 09:24 PM
And that, as we all remember, ended in DISASTER OMGWTF!?>!?<!--?--><!--?-->!<
Clinton ruined my life. If I hadn't had all that extra money, I wouldn't have done so much coke.
I tell you, Obama being elected was the worst thing that could have happened. First black people became slightly ruder, now the markets are tanking. What's next?
KingKill
11-13-2008, 09:42 PM
The country was in much better shape at that time. The market was blowing up in a good way with the .com boom causing large capital gains.
The country isnt on an upswing now, raising taxes isnt a sound way to get us out of a reccession. the checks they sent out earlier in the year didnt buy us out of it and more $ 1000 checks will do little to help.
I guess I am just greedy for wanting to keep my money to help my family. Why dont we just add a line to the tax return that allows the more progressive people to give more money to the government ?
Or better yet cut out the earned income tax credit. Talk about a boost in taxes with out having to raise taxes on 100% of the people just cut out that program and use the millions if not billions to pay down the debt etc.
The country was in much better shape at that time. The market was blowing up in a good way with the .com boom causing large capital gains.
The country isnt on an upswing now, raising taxes isnt a sound way to get us out of a reccession. the checks they sent out earlier in the year didnt buy us out of it and more $ 1000 checks will do little to help.
I guess I am just greedy for wanting to keep my money to help my family. Why dont we just add a line to the tax return that allows the more progressive people to give more money to the government ?
Or better yet cut out the earned income tax credit. Talk about a boost in taxes with out having to raise taxes on 100% of the people just cut out that program and use the millions if not billions to pay down the debt etc.
Goddamn you people are some whiny, willfully ignorant bitches. Nothing has happened yet. And yet the whines. Furthermore, this kind of thinking has been in place for eight years and we are in the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. And yet all we here from you geniuses supporting the policies that got us here is "Don't change or WE ARE DOOMED! DOOMED I TELLS YA!"
Why don't you go sit quietly in the corner for a while. You've done quite enough already.
Stankfoot
11-13-2008, 11:21 PM
The market is tanking since the election.
Is Obama refusal to back off his capital gains tax increase causing profit taking?
I wish he would come off the old 95% cut speech and say
I will not raise taxes in the face of a market meltdown and recession.
I guess its more important to give 40% of the people who do not pay any taxes additional welfare in the form of a income tax credit.
I hear he's a Communist! :ohmy:
sailor
11-13-2008, 11:39 PM
why all the attacks from one seemingly plausible theory being put out there?
IMSlacker
11-14-2008, 02:42 AM
Someone has profits to take?
Stankfoot
11-14-2008, 03:18 AM
why all the attacks from one seemingly plausible theory being put out there?
Because the market was tanking long before the election. There hasn't been a single positive bit of economic news since the election and yet the whole thing can be explained by people anticipating what Obama intends to do?
BTW the market was up yesterday - can Obama take credit for that too?
sailor
11-14-2008, 03:29 AM
Because the market was tanking long before the election. There hasn't been a single positive bit of economic news since the election and yet the whole thing can be explained by people anticipating what Obama intends to do?
BTW the market was up yesterday - can Obama take credit for that too?
did i ask why you disagreed with him? no, i asked why the personal attacks. looking abck there appears to be only one, but there was a lot of ridicule as well. the markets are hyper-complex. i love how they'll go up or down and the commentators will pick one item and say "that's why the market moved today" like jobless rates come out and that's why every single stock moved. it's really silly. but, given all that, his theory was reasonable as part of an overall explanation.
and my favorite was yesterday about 1 pm the dow was down about 300 and they had specific reasons, but then it rallied and ended up like 500 or so. the afternoon explanations? just tossed out the window like they never mentioned them ever.
The fact that last Democratic president raised taxes with in a month of entering office after saying he would not would make me want to take some profits rather than wait and see.
Bush Sr did the same thing
GreatAmericanZero
11-14-2008, 04:13 AM
George W Bush was able to use fear as a successful political tactic in 2004 and now every republican is obsessed with making everything that goes against their view of the country into something every american should fear
its so very very boring
west milly Tom
11-14-2008, 04:14 AM
The market is tanking since the election.
Is Obama refusal to back off his capital gains tax increase causing profit taking?
I wish he would come off the old 95% cut speech and say
I will not raise taxes in the face of a market meltdown and recession.
I guess its more important to give 40% of the people who do not pay any taxes additional welfare in the form of a income tax credit.
Thank you. It is impossible to give %95 of people a tax cut and increase spending by 950 billion. Too bad people didn't see through the hype.
So the Dow was up 6.7% yesterday.....did Obama or Bush do that?
Or was that the market?
KnoxHarrington
11-14-2008, 04:53 AM
You don't think that every fund manager and investment banker hasn't assumed that Obama will win for months? And they haven't planned accordingly?
That's a reason why they're snorting coke off the ass of a $25K/ night hooker, and you're a douche repeating bullshit you heard on Hannity.
Zorro
11-14-2008, 05:23 AM
You don't think that every fund manager and investment banker hasn't assumed that Obama will win for months? And they haven't planned accordingly?
That's a reason why they're snorting coke off the ass of a $25K/ night hooker, and you're a douche repeating bullshit you heard on Hannity.
Without picking a side....
It's interesting that you make fun of him for parroting Hannity and then you parrot some old ass urban legend about hookers.
Zorro
11-14-2008, 05:31 AM
Hopefully it's not prologue to the day, but The Big Apple Circus rang the opening bell
foodcourtdruide
11-14-2008, 05:41 AM
So the Dow was up 6.7% yesterday.....did Obama or Bush do that?
Or was that the market?
Up until Nov 4, everytime the market was down it was Clinton's fault. Now when the market is down it's Obama's fault and when the market is up it's because the free-market will prevail. How about we don't see things in black and white?
EliSnow
11-14-2008, 05:46 AM
why all the attacks from one seemingly plausible theory being put out there?
Because when you weigh all the facts about the stock market in the last 4 months, it's clear that theory isn't based upon fact, but rather an attempt to blame a politician the poster doesn't like.
The market's been up and down like a yo-yo for at least a month before Obama was elected. And it was up and down because of investor reaction to various events and fears, whether it be AIG failing, the proposal of a government bailout, the vote against the bailout, the vote for the bailout, bad Q3 earnings by several companies, and then the government saying the bailout won't be used by what it's for.
You can track the movement by things actually being announced by companies and the government.
And since Obama isn't in power yet, and has made it known that the economy has high priority and the tax issues are secondary, the facts line up that the market falling this week are tied to something else.
skyscraper
11-14-2008, 05:52 AM
from the Onion:
"Dow plunges on news of Dow plunging."
Knowledged_one
11-14-2008, 05:54 AM
Goddamn you people are some whiny, willfully ignorant bitches. Nothing has happened yet. And yet the whines. Furthermore, this kind of thinking has been in place for eight years and we are in the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. And yet all we here from you geniuses supporting the policies that got us here is "Don't change or WE ARE DOOMED! DOOMED I TELLS YA!"
Why don't you go sit quietly in the corner for a while. You've done quite enough already.
kinda childish with the personal attacks dont you think
DarkHippie
11-14-2008, 06:22 AM
Thank you. It is impossible to give %95 of people a tax cut and increase spending by 950 billion. Too bad people didn't see through the hype.
Your comment is a logical fallacy. The first number is a percentage and the second a flat number. You can not correlate the two.
But to refute anyway, If the 5% getting tax increases control 95% of the assets in the nation, then that would more than cover the 95% tax getting tax breaks.
And for those who think that is socialism, so what? england, france, japan and germany all have semi-socialist economies. Get over it and join the modern world.
foodcourtdruide
11-14-2008, 06:25 AM
Your comment is a logical fallacy. The first number is a percentage and the second a flat number. You can not correlate the two.
But to refute anyway, If the 5% getting tax increases control 95% of the assets in the nation, then that would more than cover the 95% tax getting tax breaks.
And for those who think that is socialism, so what? england, france, japan and germany all have semi-socialist economies. Get over it and join the modern world.
I'd add the United States to that list of semi-socialist economies, we've been that way for a long time. I like how Obama is deemed socialist, but Bush isn't. The republicans support socialist policies and so do the democrats, but it's like there's some imaginary percentage of socialist policies that each group has. Like the republicans are 13% socialist and the democrats are 18%, so the democrats are socialist!
btw the markets are tanking because there's little chance for significant growth due to a total collapse in the economy from massive unemployment and low consumer spending. Combined with the fact that the credit market is still a mess and company after company is desperate for capital means a lot of people are converting their stocks into dollars.
However, economics are difficult and listening to Rush telling you that Obama is causing it is far easier.
Zorro
11-14-2008, 09:41 AM
btw the markets are tanking because there's little chance for significant growth due to a total collapse in the economy from massive unemployment and low consumer spending. Combined with the fact that the credit market is still a mess and company after company is desperate for capital means a lot of people are converting their stocks into dollars.
However, economics are difficult and listening to Rush telling you that Obama is causing it is far easier.
Everybody shares blame for this mess. From the people that overbought to the people that overlent, to wall the wall streeters that scammed investors to the government that failed to regulate. Assuming that we were going to wake up on Novemeber 5th with all our ills cured is stupid. ...and to be honest I don't give a shit who caused this I just want it fixed. I am laying off another employee today that I care about, but can't afford to keep on so add one more name to the unemployment rolls.
In due time, by mid-March or April we'll bust out of this perpetual 8600 +/- 400 closing rut we're stuck in and start pushing closer to 9000 consistently with the DJI. Unemployment numbers will be horrific in December but should start looking better for January.
Right now we're just nearing the lowest point for this recession as we come into a Christmas season that will see retail be battered.
Zorro
11-14-2008, 10:39 AM
I lost $40,000 in my retirement account last quarter. Hey Hank wehre's my money?
I lost $40,000 in my retirement account last quarter. Hey Hank wehre's my money?
If it makes you feel better that money wasn't real in the first place.
That probably doesn't make you feel better.
IMSlacker
11-14-2008, 10:42 AM
I don't think I'm even going to open my year-end statements.
Zorro
11-14-2008, 10:49 AM
If it makes you feel better that money wasn't real in the first place.
That probably doesn't make you feel better.
Oh I assure you it was real...
KingKill
11-14-2008, 10:57 AM
Yes Bush Sr did do the same thing and caused a recession. Which Clinton did a great job of using in the election. He should have lost his job.
It is only paper to me I am only 40 and I am buying all the way down getting ready for the next bull market. The ones it is real to
are the people who are 55 plus and all the people who are being laid off. you have to understand alot jobs will not be there because people do not want to risk capital that will be taxed at a higher rate.
Remeber rich people make jobs.
Remeber rich people make jobs.
Rich people may make jobs but it takes revenue to keep a company doing business. If you notice, tax rates haven't changed a bit but the ability for consumers to spend has changed pretty drastically.
The country was in much better shape at that time. The market was blowing up in a good way with the .com boom causing large capital gains.
Praise be to Albert Gore for helping to get funding for the Series of Tubes.
Miss the DOT com boom.
Zorro
11-14-2008, 11:29 AM
Praise be to Albert Gore for helping to get funding for the Series of Tubes.
Miss the DOT com boom.
I knew the dot.com boom was a bust when I saw my friend using Ralph Lauren paint to do the office even though his company never made a penny. That and the nickel cokes they used to dispense from one of those old machines where you opened the door to get at the glass bottles. But man they did have comfy office chairs...Herman Miller I think is that familiar?
Yes Bush Sr did do the same thing and caused a recession. Which Clinton did a great job of using in the election. He should have lost his job.
It is only paper to me I am only 40 and I am buying all the way down getting ready for the next bull market. The ones it is real to
are the people who are 55 plus and all the people who are being laid off. you have to understand alot jobs will not be there because people do not want to risk capital that will be taxed at a higher rate.
Remeber rich people make jobs.
Clinton and the Republican Congress raised taxes and the economy flourished. Bush lowered taxes and the economy cratered. Of course there were many other factors involved but if this proves one thing its that unless pushed to one extreme or the other, tax policy has a minimal effect on the economy. And when Obama only wants to go put 5% of the population at the Clinton era tax rate, all of this fear-mongering of economic doom from the same people who had the biggest hand in causing is ringing extremely hollow.
As for this rich people make jobs non-sense. Do you know what else makes jobs? Cutting taxes on the poorest people. Why? Because they will immediately spend it because they have to. No giving huge tax cuts to rich people and hoping and praying they use it to make jobs that one day may or may not come to fruition. You give the money to poorer people, they spend it, the money ends up in the same place eventually while helping some less fortunate on the way there.
And I highly doubt that business people will go "Oh I was going to make this investment but now instead of being taxed at 35% I will be taxed at 39%. I'm going to put all my money into burlap sacks and retreat into my bunker until the tax rate is below 37.187271908% because that's my cut off."
I'm pretty sure that what's killing the market (besides the financial crisis) right now is the fact that the American Auto Industry is at death's door.
That is a very, very, very large number of jobs that could vanish, and very large companies that could go under.
If a bailout is passed, or the government seizes partial control (viva la socialism!!) of those companies, it'll jump back up.
Personally, there are no bigger fucktards than the people that run GM, Ford, and Chrysler. How colossally they've failed is beyond me.
That said, it would devastate way too many people to let these companies collapse
That's why I'm endorsing the government seizing part of these companies. People who want to scream 'socialism' can do it all they want...we crossed that threshold when Bush issued the bank bailout.
FezsAssistant
11-14-2008, 12:37 PM
I don't see now everyone's taxes won't go up when we're bailing out every Tom, Dick and Harry.
Bush was ordered to do it by the Dems and caved in.
Obama will just continue that.
We are doomed.
I hope I'm wrong.
IMSlacker
11-14-2008, 12:40 PM
I don't see now everyone's taxes won't go up when we're bailing out every Tom, Dick and Harry.
Bush was ordered to do it by the Dems and caved in.
Obama will just continue that.
We are doomed.
I hope I'm wrong.
Wow. History gets revised quickly these days. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/24/bush.bailout/index.html)
foodcourtdruide
11-14-2008, 12:42 PM
I don't see now everyone's taxes won't go up when we're bailing out every Tom, Dick and Harry.
Bush was ordered to do it by the Dems and caved in.
Obama will just continue that.
We are doomed.
I hope I'm wrong.
It's all the Dems fault again! Woooo, all is right with the world. THE LIE-BERALS!
foodcourtdruide
11-14-2008, 12:46 PM
I'm pretty sure that what's killing the market (besides the financial crisis) right now is the fact that the American Auto Industry is at death's door.
That is a very, very, very large number of jobs that could vanish, and very large companies that could go under.
If a bailout is passed, or the government seizes partial control (viva la socialism!!) of those companies, it'll jump back up.
Personally, there are no bigger fucktards than the people that run GM, Ford, and Chrysler. How colossally they've failed is beyond me.
That said, it would devastate way too many people to let these companies collapse
That's why I'm endorsing the government seizing part of these companies. People who want to scream 'socialism' can do it all they want...we crossed that threshold when Bush issued the bank bailout.
I think it makes us 18.5532% Socialist, which is ok with me, once we hit 18.7% though I'm going to accuse the democrats of being socialist.
Recyclerz
11-14-2008, 01:10 PM
If it makes you feel better that money wasn't real in the first place.
That probably doesn't make you feel better.
No, no it doesn't. I'm down about $200K in the last year in my retirement accounts. If I wasn't meant to have the money in the first place, I can think of a lot of more entertaining ways I could have frittered it away, like funding an open bar night for all of Ronfez.net. Or just taking ESD and Pepper Hicks out drinking. Either scenario would probably use up all that money.
To KingKill and all of my anti-tax buddies on the right: the arguments you are still advancing from the Reagan Revolution about high marginal tax rates on the well-off being the root of all evil were only partly true in 1980 and are way less true now. Obama is only talking about raising the capital gains tax rates from 15% to 20% for those with incomes over $250K/year, which is still way less that the marginal tax rates on somebody making a middle class income through wages (roughly 28%). I fail to see how this amounts to socialism.
In my estimation the market tail spin is being caused by financial entities (banks, private equity firms, hedge funds, etc) who borrowed so much fucking money to chase a speculative chimera and are now having to sell assets at just about any price to try to deleverage before they get thrown into debtor's prison. Once that dynamic stops the market should level off. It has been a sickening ride down though. :glurps:
The other issue I have with my friends on the right is that they conflate the interests of the managerial class (Wall St. fucktards and the top levels of Corporate America) with the interests of the true entrepeneurs who are the people who run and own real businesses. The two have some things in common but not most. I believe Obama's world view & policies will actually be better for small business than the last 8 years have been. The only "positive" aspect of Bush 43 has been he delivered for his real core constituency, the monied class. They've had eight years to stuff their pockets as full as possible so they can ride out the coming troubles (which have actually started) in the comforts to which they have become accustomed.
TheMojoPin
11-14-2008, 01:13 PM
I don't see now everyone's taxes won't go up when we're bailing out every Tom, Dick and Harry.
Bush was ordered to do it by the Dems and caved in.
Obama will just continue that.
We are doomed.
I hope I'm wrong.
I hope you're only a little right and YOU'RE doomed.
How's THAT for naysaying?
Stankfoot
11-14-2008, 02:47 PM
And I highly doubt that business people will go "Oh I was going to make this investment but now instead of being taxed at 35% I will be taxed at 39%. I'm going to put all my money into burlap sacks and retreat into my bunker until the tax rate is below 37.187271908% because that's my cut off."
QFT
scottinnj
11-14-2008, 03:43 PM
The market is tanking since before the election.
Fixed
KingKill
11-14-2008, 08:46 PM
I am not right wing.
I love the way people throw around the right wing when ever you question taxes.
About the tax comments I personally have talked to several small business owners who will have to stop giving healthcare or fire people if thier taxes are raised. They fall under the 150,000 to 250,000 area that has been thrown around as rich lately.
I just want my money I work for it why should I be force at gun point to give it to "people who will just spend it" shouldn't I get to spend the money I have worked so hard for?
I leave home on monday work a sales territory all week and get home on friday to make a damn good living why should I have to spread my wealth? I dont see Obama, Biden or Bush for that matter wearing sack cloth or saling off thier personal estates to give to the needy.
We threw tea in the Boston harbor over a 3% tax and had a revolution and we let our government tax us 10 times that we are all sheep.
They get us to fight about Donkeys and Elephants while they both bent us over and fuck us like a dog
All taxes are bad and no taxes are ever just on the rich or companies they are just passed on down the line.
America is doomed
I am not right wing.
I love the way people throw around the right wing when ever you question taxes.
And you are wrong about the tax comments I personally have talked to several small business owners who will have to stop giving healthcare or fire people if thier taxes are raised. They fall under the 150,000 to 250,000 area that has been thrown around as rich lately.
Well then its good that they aren't going to have their taxes raised then.
I just want my money I work for it why should I be force at gun point to give it to "people who will just spend it" shouldn't I get to spend the money I have worked so hard for?
If we have a permanent underclass of people who can't afford to support themselves do you think they will go and quietly die in a gutter somewhere far away from you? No, they will come for you and you stuff and gun point.
Everyone wants to keep all their money. They also want a functioning government. You can't reconcile the two.
I leave home on monday work a sales territory all week and get home on friday to make a damn good living why should I have to spread my wealth? I dont see Obama, Biden or Bush for that matter wearing sack cloth or saling off thier personal estates to give to the needy.
Completely fucking irrelevant. And they all probably pay much more taxes than you do.
We threw tea in the Boston harbor over a 3% tax and had a revolution and we let our government tax us 10 times that we are all sheep.
You should really study American history more because you are wrong, completely and utterly wrong right here.
They get us to fight about Donkeys and Elephants while they both bent us over and fuck us like a dog.
You go get em Joe Everyman.
All taxes are bad and no taxes are ever just on the rich or companies they are just passed on down the line.
All taxes are bad huh? Wow. This just astounding.
Let's all stop paying taxes. And then let's see what happens when your house is on fire. But no one is there to put it out! And there's no running water! You'r child is injured and you run out of the house but no ambulance is coming! You try and get in your car and bring the child to a hospital but the roads are impassable due to degradation! And some guy with a gun is demanding all your money and no one is there to help you! And there's no hospital anyway! And the Russian and Chinese armies are invading your neighborhood and no one can stop them!
Tenbatsuzen
11-14-2008, 09:13 PM
Let's all stop paying taxes. And then let's see what happens when your house is on fire. But no one is there to put it out! And there's no running water! You'r child is injured and you run out of the house but no ambulance is coming! You try and get in your car and bring the child to a hospital but the roads are impassable due to degradation! And some guy with a gun is demanding all your money and no one is there to help you! And there's no hospital anyway! And the Russian and Chinese armies are invading your neighborhood and no one can stop them!
i blame the blacks
KingKill
11-16-2008, 06:13 PM
Hbox,
Valid point not all taxes are bad.
I am not against taxes that support the basic forms of governement like Military and highways etc.
The property and state taxes I am ok with because I get some form of service back.
I am just sick and tired of pouring money down the hole.
Doesn't anybody else feel this frustration?
foodcourtdruide
11-17-2008, 05:51 AM
Hbox,
Valid point not all taxes are bad.
I am not against taxes that support the basic forms of governement like Military and highways etc.
The property and state taxes I am ok with because I get some form of service back.
I am just sick and tired of pouring money down the hole.
Doesn't anybody else feel this frustration?
I honestly don't. I feel we should be striving for BETTER government and not necessarily less government. Our government is a reflection of us and when it fails it is ultimately our fault. When you vote based on ideology, what do you think is going to happen? I personally want the smartest people doing the most important jobs, that, more than anything else is why I voted for Obama.
Hbox,
Valid point not all taxes are bad.
I am not against taxes that support the basic forms of governement like Military and highways etc.
The property and state taxes I am ok with because I get some form of service back.
I am just sick and tired of pouring money down the hole.
Doesn't anybody else feel this frustration?
I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote about this in another thread.
Here's the thing that always gets me about this argument.
"I don't want none of my money going to those lazy bastards on welfare and medicaid. What do I get out of it?"
Well guys, you know what you get out of it?
#1) SECURITY - honestly, if there's no safety nets in this country, do people really think that the poor are just going to sit quietly and fade away until they die? Find me any society in history where that's every happened. When people reach a certain breaking point, they'll do whatever's necessary to survive...even if that includes taking from those that do have stuff, forciably.
#2) THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE WHAT THEY PUT IN BACK, AND THEN SOME - By percentage, most of the rich that pay a larger percentage of taxes, make up most of the investment world. The less people are being squeezed for bare necessities and are able to get some help, the more likely they are to purchase the worthless, garbage products, that so many of these people put their money in.
This Wall Street crisis....at it's core, it's a product of the fact that the the mid-class and poor can't afford what they have (in this case, mortgages).
Now, if people can be bailed out in a reasonable fashion, the mid-class and poor will be viable in terms of continuing consumer spending, thus keeping the economy going.
If they don't, and large numbers of people go down in flames. See how much consumer confidence and spending drops, and furthermore, see how much MORE money, the rich and upper class lose in their investments, than if they just bit the bullet, and bought into the safety nets.
KingKill
11-17-2008, 07:57 AM
You all have some valid points and I do resent that the works have to float the worthless not the vet or insane etc.
Just the ones using the system.
Oh well I do have a very good accountant I will just let him do his job.
nuff said
I like to call it the Bush market tail spin.
On January 19, 2001 (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=^DJI&a=00&b=19&c=2001&d=00&e=19&f=2001&g=d) the Day Bush took over the Dow was at 10,587.59.
Today, 8 years later (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^DJI), the Down closed at 7,997.28.
Stick your lazy blame of Obama up your ass.
FUNKMAN
11-19-2008, 07:56 PM
guess you can blame Obama for the .com bubble bust as well... Come On! talk to the big boys with the big money and the big lawyers... ask them where all the money is. mortgage sellers and hedge fund managers grabbed a bulk of the money. the masses are sitting home pondering how many more years they'll have to work
On January 19, 2001 (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=^DJI&a=00&b=19&c=2001&d=00&e=19&f=2001&g=d) the Day Bush took over the Dow was at 10,587.59.
Bush took over on January 20, 2001.
i blame the blacks
I blame the whites
Bush took over on January 20, 2001.
Fair enough....but the Dow started January 20th with the January 19th closing price. At least I think that was my point.
Bush took over on January 20, 2001.
Fair enough....but the Dow started January 20th with the January 19th closing price. At least I think that was my point.
That's cool. I just know that Inauguration Day is always January 20. I learned it from those "01-20-09" bumper stickers I kept seeing around.
Zorro
11-20-2008, 06:41 AM
I like to call it the Bush market tail spin.
On January 19, 2001 (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=^DJI&a=00&b=19&c=2001&d=00&e=19&f=2001&g=d) the Day Bush took over the Dow was at 10,587.59.
Today, 8 years later (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^DJI), the Down closed at 7,997.28.
Stick your lazy blame of Obama up your ass.
Six years later in January 2007 before the Dems took control of congress it was 12,463
NewYorkDragons80
11-20-2008, 08:12 AM
No matter who won, half the country wouldn't have voted for them and they would've been voting partly out of a lack of confidence in the economic plan of the other guy, so this was gonna happen either way (on top of the economic collapse that set this off in the first place). I'll be contributing to my IRA as late as humanly possible this year. It's taken a true beating, and I didn't open up the account until the market went below 10,000
Six years later in January 2007 before the Dems took control of congress it was 12,463
At the core, it's all about debt.
And Bush's spending ran the U.S. from surpluses to record debt.
The Democrats aren't absolved from blame. But the signs that this was coming were visible for a couple of years now and Bush, through his budget, and his treasury department, did nothing to address it.
why all the attacks from one seemingly plausible theory being put out there?
Because they dare go against their savior.
Because the market was tanking long before the election. There hasn't been a single positive bit of economic news since the election and yet the whole thing can be explained by people anticipating what Obama intends to do?
BTW the market was up yesterday - can Obama take credit for that too?
The market was in a lull, now that obama has won its pretty clear the market is in a free fall and if you dont think capital gains increases have something to do with it then you have no clue how long term market fluctuations actually immediately increase the stock prices. They count on that money to prop up a lot of investments and now people are yanking money out to beat the increase in taxes.
Six years later in January 2007 before the Dems took control of congress it was 12,463
Pleas dont confuse them with facts, it only makes them angry. Just like the fact that most of the people that caused this housing bust are democrats, fucking barney frank talking now like hes going to clean up that town when he spoke of fannie mae and freddie mac not needing over sight at all. Now he acts like he was the sole voice of reason, what a fucking douche.
U.S. Stocks Rally as Obama Picks Tim Geithner to Head Treasury (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adW9iCvqNoIY&refer=home)
U.S. stocks rallied and the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index rebounded from an 11-year low after President-elect Barack Obama picked New York Federal Reserve Bank chief Timothy Geithner to head the Treasury.
The S&P 500, which capped a third-straight weekly decline, surged 6.3 percent to 800.03. The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 494.13 points, or 6.5 percent, to 8,046.42, while the Nasdaq Composite Index added 5.2 percent to 1,384.35. Almost five stocks gained for each that fell on the New York Stock Exchange.
JerseySean
11-21-2008, 03:34 PM
U.S. Stocks Rally as Obama Picks Tim Geithner to Head Treasury (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adW9iCvqNoIY&refer=home)
Awesome pick
Pleas dont confuse them with facts, it only makes them angry. Just like the fact that most of the people that caused this housing bust are democrats, fucking barney frank talking now like hes going to clean up that town when he spoke of fannie mae and freddie mac not needing over sight at all. Now he acts like he was the sole voice of reason, what a fucking douche.
Because they dare go against their savior.
The market was in a lull, now that obama has won its pretty clear the market is in a free fall and if you dont think capital gains increases have something to do with it then you have no clue how long term market fluctuations actually immediately increase the stock prices. They count on that money to prop up a lot of investments and now people are yanking money out to beat the increase in taxes.
U.S. Stocks Rally as Obama Picks Tim Geithner to Head Treasury (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adW9iCvqNoIY&refer=home)
It is hilarious how completely and consistently wrong you are.
It is hilarious how completely and consistently wrong you are.
Whats amazing is how you refuse to admit we were right about the market tanking cause obama won and his stating he would raise taxes, do you really fucking want to think one 6% rise makes up for the cliff jump that it took since he won?
God some people will believe anything.
But yeah as long as the big corporations are making money, huh? (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122722984907646501.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)
Yeah Im really wrong (http://www.smallcapinvestor.com/smallcapnews/todaystrading/2008-11-21-obama_cabinet_moves_spark_stock_market_surge)
Whats amazing is how you refuse to admit we were right about the market tanking cause obama won and his stating he would raise taxes, do you really fucking want to think one 6% rise makes up for the cliff jump that it took since he won?
God some people will believe anything.
But yeah as long as the big corporations are making money, huh? (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122722984907646501.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)
Yeah Im really wrong (http://www.smallcapinvestor.com/smallcapnews/todaystrading/2008-11-21-obama_cabinet_moves_spark_stock_market_surge)
Have you figured out what Socialism actually is yet?
Do you still think North Korea never tested a nuke?
I'm just curious.
Recyclerz
11-21-2008, 06:56 PM
The market was in a lull, now that obama has won its pretty clear the market is in a free fall and if you dont think capital gains increases have something to do with it then you have no clue how long term market fluctuations actually immediately increase the stock prices. They count on that money to prop up a lot of investments and now people are yanking money out to beat the increase in taxes.
Please re-read what you wrote, close your eyes, take a deep breath and let it out slowly.
OK, now are you still willing to claim that the financial markets are in full panic and meltdown because Obama may raise the capital gains tax rates from 15 to 20%? Really??
A couple of problems I see with your theory: Who is selling out at a profit they are protecting when the markets are down 50% in one year?
Wouldn't losses be more valuable at a future higher tax rate?
If people are acting in an economically rational manner, as you posit, why is all the cash going into US Treasuries with returns that are rapidly approaching 0%?
I'll hang up and listen to your answer on the air.
EliSnow
11-22-2008, 06:06 AM
Pleas dont confuse them with facts, it only makes them angry. Just like the fact that most of the people that caused this housing bust are democrats, fucking barney frank talking now like hes going to clean up that town when he spoke of fannie mae and freddie mac not needing over sight at all. Now he acts like he was the sole voice of reason, what a fucking douche.
Please. This is from the guy who said there was no way that Virginia or Florida would vote for Obama.
Your analytical skills are seriously lacking. The market has been volatile for months now. To the extent that it's fallen since the election, it's because of Q3 reports that have been lower than expected, poor forcasts for Q4 for the retail industry because people will be spending less, increasing unemployment, and the auto bailout issue.
Read any serious analysis of the market and that's what you'll see.
And this isn't because I think Obama is the "Savior." I have no fricking clue whether he's going to make a difference or not.
You're worse than fucking Blowhard.
U.S. Stocks Rally as Obama Picks Tim Geithner to Head Treasury (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adW9iCvqNoIY&refer=home)
LIES!
Everybody knows yesterday was a result of George Bush's soothing influence to calm a volatile market.
We'll be back in the Obama Tail Spin by Monday!
:devil2:
KnoxHarrington
11-22-2008, 06:53 AM
Please. This is from the guy who said there was no way that Virginia or Florida would vote for Obama.
Your analytical skills are seriously lacking. The market has been volatile for months now. To the extent that it's fallen since the election, it's because of Q3 reports that have been lower than expected, poor forcasts for Q4 for the retail industry because people will be spending less, increasing unemployment, and the auto bailout issue.
Read any serious analysis of the market and that's what you'll see.
And this isn't because I think Obama is the "Savior." I have no fricking clue whether he's going to make a difference or not.
You're worse than fucking Blowhard.
The right-wing spin on the election is that Obama swept into office on a wave of dumbasses who voted for him because they thought he was "cool" or he'd give them shit. It's not hard to see the rather obvious race baiting there.
The thing is, it ignores exit polling showing that Obama got a lot of people who voted for Bush in '04, and did better amongst white voters and in many parts of "safe" Republican districts than Kerry did then. But it's a good way to try to pretend that your entire political philosophy has not been soundly rejected, I guess.
EliSnow
11-22-2008, 07:10 AM
The right-wing spin on the election is that Obama swept into office on a wave of dumbasses who voted for him because they thought he was "cool" or he'd give them shit. It's not hard to see the rather obvious race baiting there.
The thing is, it ignores exit polling showing that Obama got a lot of people who voted for Bush in '04, and did better amongst white voters and in many parts of "safe" Republican districts than Kerry did then. But it's a good way to try to pretend that your entire political philosophy has not been soundly rejected, I guess.
I agree, but what makes SP1!'s "analysis" worse is that he applies the above spin to the people on this site who supported Obama. We're all people who think Obama is the "savior" who can't do wrong and will change the world. Yet, I don't think I've seen one single person on this board post such shit.
I've had debates with people like that before where they are using arguments for some hypothetical opponent and their arguments, rather than the actual positions and arguments I've taken.
KnoxHarrington
11-22-2008, 08:15 AM
I agree, but what makes SP1!'s "analysis" worse is that he applies the above spin to the people on this site who supported Obama. We're all people who think Obama is the "savior" who can't do wrong and will change the world. Yet, I don't think I've seen one single person on this board post such shit.
I've had debates with people like that before where they are using arguments for some hypothetical opponent and their arguments, rather than the actual positions and arguments I've taken.
The official logo of the Republican Party should be a strawman at this point.
albo60s
11-22-2008, 03:47 PM
I tell you, Obama being elected was the worst thing that could have happened. First black people became slightly ruder, now the markets are tanking. What's next?
A depression
Stocks extend huge rally to 2nd day (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WALL_STREET?SITE=WIMIL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street barreled higher Monday for the second straight session, this time in a relief rally over the government's plan to bail out Citigroup Inc. - a move it hopes will help quiet some of the uncertainty hounding the financial sector and the overall economy. The Dow Jones industrials soared nearly 400 points and the major indexes all jumped more than 4.5 percent.
The surge gave the market its first two-day advance since Oct. 30-31 and the Dow's biggest two-day percentage gain since October 1987; the 891-point rise over the two sessions also wiped out an 872-point plunge over the course of Wednesday and Thursday.
Yea, please give me your lame ass talking points today about how the "socialist" is going to ruin the economy.
Tenbatsuzen
11-24-2008, 02:47 PM
You're worse than fucking Blowhard.
I don't remember writing thi-HOLY SHIT IT'S ELI
Tenbatsuzen
11-24-2008, 02:48 PM
The thing is, it ignores exit polling showing that Obama got a lot of people who voted for Bush in '04, and did better amongst white voters and in many parts of "safe" Republican districts than Kerry did then. But it's a good way to try to pretend that your entire political philosophy has not been soundly rejected, I guess.
Hi!
Yea, please give me your lame ass talking points today about how the "socialist" is going to ruin the economy.
Socialism is bad because someone else told me it was bad.
ps I use many socialist programs every day without realizing it!
Stocks extend huge rally to 2nd day (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WALL_STREET?SITE=WIMIL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
Yea, please give me your lame ass talking points today about how the "socialist" is going to ruin the economy.
Im not giving you talking points, fuck I dont even believe any of those people anyway. People always accuse me of being from free republic but I never even go to that site much less post there, either way the stock market was at around 9300 when obama won and its still down from that and has only crept up on news that they have bailed out citi again. Time will tell but Im not sold on his policies still since they havent really come up with a sane plan for the housing market.
For the last time Im not a die hard at any cost republican, I lean conservative but I am more liberal than my GF on most points, I just dont trust him but that doesnt mean much since I didnt trust bush.
I did rag on people who felt he was the savior for everything that was wrong in this nation when in reality he hadnt accomplished anything in his political career.
Also the biggest problem I have with obama isnt that hes going to raise capital gains taxes its that hes going to reinstate them, they were suspended under the tax cut plan.
Oh and for hbox I know what socialism is and Im not going to get in the N korea nuke argument here.
Furtherman
11-26-2008, 04:09 PM
I did rag on people who felt he was the savior for everything that was wrong in this nation when in reality he hadnt accomplished anything in his political career.
Who? Who felt he was the savior for everything that was wrong in this nation?
EliSnow
11-26-2008, 04:19 PM
either way the stock market was at around 9300 when obama won and its still down from that and has only crept up on news that they have bailed out citi again.
You state this like the only thing that could have made the market go down is Obama winning the election, and ignore all the other developments since that time that others have pointed out.
thejives
11-26-2008, 04:35 PM
Holy shit.
Eli's a mod.
Oh and for hbox I know what socialism is and Im not going to get in the N korea nuke argument here.
That's smart. You wouldn't want to say something stupid like Social Security isn't a socialist program because people pay money into it and get money back out. You also wouldn't want to claim there was never a North Korea nuke test, then when presented with proof otherwise you'd claim that you didn't believe our government and every other government paying attention.
You'd look like a complete idiot if you did say those stupid things.
scottinnj
11-26-2008, 06:00 PM
HBox, who do you like better, SP1 or JerseySean?
HBox, who do you like better, SP1 or JerseySean?
JerseySean easily.
scottinnj
11-26-2008, 06:23 PM
JerseySean easily.
Yep, same here. I still want to know what the ! is for. But I just asked him in his other thread, so I can wait a while before I check again.
EliSnow
11-27-2008, 02:37 AM
Holy shit.
Eli's a mod.
?
Only a forum moderator, and I've been one for awhile.
U.S. Stocks Rise On Black Friday To Post Strong Weekly Gains (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200811281422DOWJONESDJONLINE000780_FORTUNE5.htm)
The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJI) gained 102 points, or 1.2%, to 8,829, with 23 of its 30 components ending higher. While the blue-chip average fell 5.3% for the month of November, it jumped 9.2% over the past week.
Even more impressive, the Dow gained 1,277 points, or 17%, in just five sessions, marking its best five-day percentage gain since 1932, and its best five-day point gain on record.
Proving the very premise of this thread is asinine.
keithy_19
11-29-2008, 08:23 AM
I have no actual data for this, but doesn't the economy often go down after an election? Buyers are hesitant regardless of who gets elected?
The economy always has a way of straightening itself out.
Freakshow
01-14-2009, 06:56 AM
U.S. Stocks Rally as Obama Picks Tim Geithner to Head Treasury (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adW9iCvqNoIY&refer=home)
Awesome pick
So this guy doesn't pay his taxes, doesn't pay social security on his illegal housekeeper (which sunk at least one Bush nominee), Obama knew, and still nominated him anyway?
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!
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