Deep Diggers: Sampling [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

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lleeder

11-23-2008, 01:18 PM

Patrice filled in for Opie and Anthony on friday and did a very informative show on sampling. He was playing alot of songs that were sampled and made into popular rap songs. I never knew how much was ripped off and to what degree. Joe Cockers Woman to Woman was taken and made in California Love. There were some others that were just as a bad. Patrice was asking whats the difference between Dr.Dre and Puffy. "Is it that Dre was a deeper digger?"

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lleeder

11-23-2008, 01:22 PM

Here's another one I knew about but it was funny as hell when Parice was discussing it.

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jauble

11-23-2008, 01:23 PM

I really enjoyed that show (thursday as well). I wish they would have done an xm show also, but Im glad they gave us 2 live shows.

MacVittie

11-23-2008, 01:39 PM

Here's another:

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GreatAmericanZero

11-23-2008, 01:42 PM

it was a great discussion but this shit makes me mad

it is all about "deep diggers" cuz i was soooo pissed at kid rock's summer song being "Werewolves in London" and i was wondering why so many people don't call him out about it....but i guess thats how they always do things

lleeder

11-23-2008, 01:47 PM

MacVittie

11-23-2008, 02:03 PM

Juice Crew - The Symphony

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Otis Redding - Hard to Handle

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MacVittie

11-23-2008, 02:05 PM

The Fugees - Zealots

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The Flamingos - I Only Have Eyes For You

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MacVittie

11-23-2008, 02:09 PM

LL Cool J - I Shot Ya

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Lyn Collins - Put It On The Line

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MacVittie

11-23-2008, 02:38 PM

Public Enemy - Night Of The Living Baseheads

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Public Enemy - Rebel Without A Pause

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Public Enemy - Terminator X to the Edge of Panic

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The J.B.'s - The Grunt

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TheMojoPin

11-23-2008, 07:30 PM

I never knew how much was ripped off and to what degree. Joe Cockers Woman to Woman was taken and made in California Love. There were some others that were just as a bad. Patrice was asking whats the difference between Dr.Dre and Puffy. "Is it that Dre was a deeper digger?"

I think it's a pretty big leap to call it all "ripping off." It's not like hip-hop artists are trying to "get away" with copying another song like Vanilla Ice's cheesy excuse bullshit back when he was big. Most of these guys are sampling songs they loved as they grew up and the artists and tracks get full credits in the liner notes. Hell, 90's hip-hop was HUGE in expanding my musical horizons because, like a dork, I poured over the liner notes due to samples I loved and wanted to hear where they originaly came from. Who knows how many funk and blues and soul and jazz acts have been given newer fans over the years thanks to hip-hop.

And the difference between Dre and Puffy is that Dre uses sampling as an art, like it should be. He's not necessarily looking for something that everyone is going to recognize right...he looks for bits and pieces of different songs to blend them together to make something that's new and awesome but still shows respect to what came before. Puffy is just shameless and is just looking for obvious hooks a ton of people will know right away to piggyback his shitty songs onto, plus he doesn't really mix it up. He just rips an obvious hook or backing track and loops it.

Sampling has become a lost art at this point, mostly as a victim to hip-hop's success. Once people realized there was money in that "black music," the cost to sample songs starting shooting through the roof when hip-hop artits straing requesting their use. You listen to the dense layered sampling on albums like 3 Feet High & Rising and Paul's Boutique or Entroducing...
and it's just amazing how across the board it is pop culture-wise.

The British have a bunch of cool compilations that have tons of songs that have been sampled for hip-hop, electronic and pop songs. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=sampled)

Good sampling rules.

TheMojoPin

11-23-2008, 07:31 PM

donnie_darko

11-23-2008, 07:43 PM

i think it comes down to people in the ghetto who couldn't afford a band.
so hey, we'll sing over moms old records
and bam, rap music was bornnnnnn

TheMojoPin

11-23-2008, 07:47 PM

i think it comes down to people in the ghetto who couldn't afford a band.
so hey, we'll sing over moms old records
and bam, rap music was bornnnnnn

Truth.

GreatAmericanZero

11-24-2008, 04:07 AM

Kid Rock sucks, but what is there to "call him out" over? It's not like he's trying to hide what it is.

since i didn't understand that every rap song is just words over stolen music, i didn't understand why reviews and magazines like rolling stone was giving him good reviews for what i only saw as stolen music

FunkyDrummer

11-24-2008, 06:24 AM

Are these guys creating something unique or are they just stealing?

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TheMojoPin

11-24-2008, 07:26 AM

since i didn't understand that every rap song is just words over stolen music, i didn't understand why reviews and magazines like rolling stone was giving him good reviews for what i only saw as stolen music

Every rap song isn't anchored on a sample, and plenty don't have any samples at all (another reason Dre is much better than Puffy; all of his original production tracks that have turned into monster classics), and a sample isn't "stolen music."

By that logic, a cover song is even "worse" and about a bajillion times more "stolen."

spainlinx0

11-24-2008, 09:46 AM

You're giving Dre too much credit. The songs that Patrice mentioned on the show weren't mixed or hidden. They were direct samples. I love Dre, and I used to be really into rap music. That was my favorite era when we had Biggie, Dre, Tupac, Snoop, Wu-Tang etc. After Big Pun died my love for rap started to fade and I moved back towards other forms of music.

I'm not trying to bash him. But it really does seem like Dre just dug deeper. It's not more creative because he dug deeper. And they weren't trying to introduce us to new music. They liked a track, thought it sounded good, and they just rapped over it because it is easier to sample than it is to make your own music if you can't play an instrument.

TheMojoPin

11-24-2008, 10:22 AM

You're giving Dre too much credit. The songs that Patrice mentioned on the show weren't mixed or hidden. They were direct samples.

How is a sample anything but "direct?" It's a sample.

I'm not trying to bash him. But it really does seem like Dre just dug deeper. It's not more creative because he dug deeper.

Dre's got songs that are centered around 1 or 2 obvious samples, but that's not all he does. He's got tons of "layered" tracks and a bunch of hits that are totally original production. Puffy doesn't and didn't do anything but the obvious hit samples. The argument that Dre is obviously much creative doesn't hinge on his songs where he used obvious samples or a single sample.

And they weren't trying to introduce us to new music.

I didn't say that was their intention, just that for a lot of people it was a result of listening.

They liked a track, thought it sounded good, and they just rapped over it because it is easier to sample than it is to make your own music if you can't play an instrument.

It's much more like donnie said and about how much more affordable it was for people without a lot of money to get themselves two turntables, some records, a speaker and a microphone and be able to make music.

EddieMoscone

11-24-2008, 12:19 PM

Mullenax

11-24-2008, 05:40 PM

Loved that show.
My Favorite:
<p>
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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qAfrhmIvZ_s&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qAfrhmIvZ_s&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object><p>And I don't think it's stealing, in this case- more like postmodern appropriation.

FunkyDrummer

11-25-2008, 06:19 AM

I think some people who are not familiar with it think sampling is just lifting an entire song and rapping over it. There are many more layers to it.

Take DJ Shadow. On wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endtroducing) they list over 80 elements sampled for his album "Endtroducing...", and that list is not all inclusive and does not even cover all tracks on the album. It's thought that Shadow samples hundreds of records per album, but cuts them and layers them so well most aren't even recognizable. And in my opinion there have not been many album made, ever, that are better than "Endtroducing...".

DJ Shadow is amazing...
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donnie_darko

11-25-2008, 06:42 AM

its funny but if you think about it, alot of the great black rock and roll musicians were on piano, because most churches had pianos that they could experiment with.

Just like every house had a record player.

A creative person is going to make use of what they have in order to express themselves.

MacVittie

11-25-2008, 06:48 AM

A creative person is going to make use of what they have in order to express themselves.

That reminds me...

NWA - Express Yourself

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Charles Wright - Express Yourself

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