Is Bush Turning Heel To Put Bible Over?

[lleeder]

The last couple of days Ron's been talking about how George Bush is now saying he never took the Bible literally. I think this is a last ditch effort to restore credibility to the church. For the past 8 years Bush has fucked up so bad and made people that believe in the Bible look stupid. Now by distancing himself from the Bible those people can get their credibility back. They can now say that a religious person in the White House might work out, since George Bush wasn't really religious and really didn't believe in the Bible like he should have.

[IMSlacker]

That's an interesting theory. I'm going to mull it over while I eat this bowl of Count Chocula.

[booster11373]

people that believe in the Bible ARE stupid.

This is correct

[keithy_19]

This is correct

I would have to disagree with you incredibly. Just because someone believes something doesn't mean they're stupid. It's all a matter of faith. Most people don't fully understand the bible and what certain things mean. But Jesus is a historical figure and while he was here he did certain miraculous things. That's historical.

And there are very smart people who believe in the things written in the bible.

[DarkHippie]

while he was here he did certain miraculous things. That's historical.


Not to be a dick, but the only proof of this is in the Bible. You can't verify the truth of the Bible by referring to the Bible.

the four gospels were written by people who werent actually there. the stories werent written down until decades after jesus died. So for 30 or so years, the gospels were just oral tradition, the equivalent of playing telephone across the desert (not to mention the several languages of the roman empire).

[cougarjake13]

when does hillary do the run in to steal the white house from obama ??

[donnie_darko]

um, yeah, and the governments behind the 911 conspiracy.

like bush is a diabolical jesus genius.

But Jesus is a historical figure and while he was here he did certain miraculous things. That's historical.

is fucking hillarious

[booster11373]

I would have to disagree with you incredibly. Just because someone believes something doesn't mean they're stupid. It's all a matter of faith. Most people don't fully understand the bible and what certain things mean. But Jesus is a historical figure and while he was here he did certain miraculous things. That's historical.

And there are very smart people who believe in the things written in the bible.

That is not true at all the Romans were pretty good record keepers and very little if anything about Jesus was recorded

[patsopinion]

or is this bush's way of saying that he was a carney all along and takin from whoever he could take from?


ronnie being a carney i'd think that he could recognize one of his own
but i guess that how good bush was a doing what he dyd

[booster11373]

This Bush's play at some sort of legecy

[patsopinion]

This Bush's play at some sort of legecy

2 wars, 9/11, and completely unregulated economics with the inherent economic crash, leaving china unregulated, the complete decimation of the American product, torture, the cia leak investigation and carl roves book...

mans got a legacy, not doubt

[brettmojo]

But Jesus is a historical figure and while he was here he did certain miraculous things. That's historical.

And there are very smart people who believe in the things written in the bible.
The bible is just a collection of stories. Anyone who takes any of it literally is retarded. It's meant to teach lessons and morals and what not to support a religion. That's it. It's not a history book.

As for Bush, he's just a stupid person and his handlers are giving up. That's all this is.

[boosterp]

Bush is an out right lying pile of shit. I did not like him when he was our governor, and I certainly did not support his elective effort to the white house.

On the stem cell issue, did he not speak to the pope, did he not say he spoke to god about it?

Had he not consulted religious officials a few times since, has he not given speeches touting his beliefs in the past?

Had he not stood with the public servants after 9/11 and prayed with them?

This has been the most contradicting and back peddling term of a president ever. Fuck him.

[FezsAssistant]

He's been a liberal for the last 8 years. Why stop now?
He didn't stop gay marriage or abortion.
He overspends our money like crazy.
He believes in global warming (which proves he's a fucking retard).
He didn't outlaw stem cell research, he just didn't federally fund it.
He let the Dem's convince him to give OUR money to corporate scumbags.

[scottinnj]

That is not true at all the Romans were pretty good record keepers and very little if anything about Jesus was recorded

The Romans involvement with the story of Jesus was so small, I'd be surprised to see it written down. Pilate was so disgusted over the mockery of a trial given to Jesus that he "washed his hands of it" meaning he didn't want to take any responsibility for what was happening. And since he was the lowest Roman government official with direct involvement in the crucifixtion process, I wouldn't be surprised, given his attitude, that no one in the Roman government above him even knew Jesus was crucified.

Yes, Jesus did exist, as Keithy_19 says. As far as the miracles He performed, that is a matter of faith. And yes, I believe He did what the Bible says He did. If I believe He is the Son of God, then the water into wine and walking on water stuff is kid stuff for my faith.

[patsopinion]

wow
this topic really brings out the hayseeds

[scottinnj]

I did not like him when he was our governor

Question:

What was your opinion of Governor Richardson? The rest of the country was led to believe you guys couldn't wait for her to leave and looooovvvved Bush as da guv.

[Farmer Dave]

wow
this topic really brings out the hayseeds

What'd I miss. Did someone say hayseed?

[scottinnj]

What'd I miss. Did someone say hayseed?

You're just in time, brother. I need some backup here.

And Brettmojo, we do not like the term "retarded" We prefer to be called "the faithful"

[keithy_19]

I just absolutely hate how people bash Christianity and bash the followers of it. Not everyone who believes in what the Bible says is an idiot.

[scottinnj]

Go easy on them. Guys like Brett don't say "you're retarded" like he means it. He's not really saying

"Scottinnj/Keith_19 are retards for believing in the Bible"

He's just saying. Y'know?

[SatCam]

I blame booster for the downfall of this thread

[scottinnj]

I so blame him for everything.

[HBox]

I'd blame Jesus if I were STOOPID enough to believe in him.

[booster11373]

I blame booster for the downfall of this thread

huh? :happy:

[booster11373]

I just absolutely hate how people bash Christianity and bash the followers of it. Not everyone who believes in what the Bible says is an idiot.

I disagree with Christians and do bash there beliefs because the want to interfere with me and my life directly

If Christians want to keep their faith to themselves then so be it but when it comes into public and tries to interfere and influence how my country is run then I'm going to bash it and its followers

[brettmojo]

Yes, Jesus did exist, as Keithy_19 says.

And the proof of that is... Where?

You're just in time, brother. I need some backup here.

And Brettmojo, we do not like the term "retarded" We prefer to be called "the faithful"

Don't get me wrong, I believe there's something more than just what we see and what science tells us, but the silly stuff that religions base their craziness on is just silly.

I just absolutely hate how people bash Christianity and bash the followers of it. Not everyone who believes in what the Bible says is an idiot.

I'm not bashing Christianity specifically, just religion in general.

And anyone who believes in literal interpretation of the bible are the same as children who believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. If you can take lessons from the stories in it, that's great. That's what it's intended to do.

Go easy on them. Guys like Brett don't say "you're retarded" like he means it. He's not really saying

"Scottinnj/Keith_19 are retards for believing in the Bible"

He's just saying. Y'know?

Not a retard. But it's kinda' retarded behavior to believe fictional stories about fictional characters are in fact nonfictional with no corroborating evidence to support that assertion and then get pissy when people make fun of you about it.

[epo]

I can wait for Bush's promo telling us why he turned. All good heels tell us why.

[brettmojo]

I can wait for Bush's promo telling us why he turned. All good heels tell us why.
When was he a face?

OH YEAH when Osama attacked him. Anytime one heel attacks another heel the attackee always goes face.

[scottinnj]

But back to topic, Bush is a fucking jerkoff for using his political power to pit conservative evengelicals against liberal evengelicals.

He should have been using his clout to reunite the two sides.

I sometimes think this country needs a good dose of fascism to straighten the fuck up.

We really have forgotten how good we have it here. Freedom of speech, freedom of thought and the ability to debate without fear of retribution from the government.

I know I'm rambling like Bluto, but fuck it, I'm on a roll. When did we get to the point where we're putting the blame of the housing market on the HOMEOWNERS WHO ARE GETTING THROWN OUT OF THEIR HOUSES?

This is what gets me mad about the rift between the two segments of evengelicals. We're sitting in our churches, calling the other side (who are fellow Christians) "commies" who want to take your guns and tax you to death, or "neo-cons" who want to bust your union and give your pension to the CEOs.

I'm sick of it. I'm tired of going to church and finding "voter information" cards on my windshield telling me the "biblical" way to cast my vote, while the other side gets the "god damn america" sermons

We as American Christians HAVE FAILED THIS COUNTRY! Our neighbors are hurting, our kids aren't getting the education we've paid through the nose for, and we blame each other!

I had a guy I had to deliver to on Thanksgiving who had to give the medicine back because he couldn't afford the deductible-2000 dollars because the company he works for has him paying 400 bucks a month for the shittiest health care plan I've ever seen.
He can't afford the medicine, but if he doesn't take it, he could lose his leg due to an infection. BTW, he has to stand for his job, he runs a plastic injection machine making water bottles. So if he loses his leg, he loses his job.
But who the fuck cares? He's just some dumb immigrant from Poland, and since he has the English skills of a third grader, nobody wants to take the extra time to make sure all his referals are correct, or whether or not the infection is due from an injury that occurred at work-it could be paid for with workman's comp. This has to stop, and at one time, it was religious folk who were the ones to champion these types of issues. Not anymore it seems.
We as Christians HAVE FAILED.

[epo]

To Scott's point here, he is very correct.

As a nation that loves to define itself as christian, we certainly don't act like it very much.

Just ask yourself, how many times does the Bible remind us to help the poor? And that's a "socialist" concept in our "christian" nation.

[scottinnj]

Not a retard. But it's kinda' retarded behavior to believe fictional stories about fictional characters are in fact nonfictional with no corroborating evidence to support that assertion and then get pissy when people make fun of you about it.

I got it. I wasn't mad at all. I was just playing along (forgot my wakka wakkas again)

I know there is a big hill to climb on this board when expressing my faith. So I just relax and say what I believe, and some will accept it, and some won't. Ces la vie.

As to other sources besides the Bible referring to the existence of Jesus-this page (http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexist/tacitus.html) explains some of the Roman historians writings about Jesus-in particular, here how Nero blames Christians for the fire that ravaged Rome:

But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.

That was written by Tacitus-Roman historian who references Christ being ordered put to death by Pontius Pilate. Again little was written about Christ by the Romans because he was not on their radar, and Christianity never really took off and became a political threat to the Romans until after he was crucified, and that's when the Romans hierarchy took notice.

[scottinnj]

To Scott's point here, he is very correct.

As a nation that loves to define itself as christian, we certainly don't act like it very much.

Just ask yourself, how many times does the Bible remind us to help the poor? And that's a "socialist" concept in our "christian" nation.

Just on a side note epo, remember when I went off on Gore about the "civil disobediance" crack he made?

The workers at the window factory who took over the factory-that is a good example of civil disobediance done the right way. Reminded me of the stories from the 60s of southern blacks and white civil rights workers sitting together at "whites only" lunchtables.

Awesome stuff (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7013370800)

[keithy_19]

I disagree with Christians and do bash there beliefs because the want to interfere with me and my life directly

If Christians want to keep their faith to themselves then so be it but when it comes into public and tries to interfere and influence how my country is run then I'm going to bash it and its followers

To me that is incredibly closed minded. Not all Christians are trying to force their views on you. It's a shame that religion plays a factor in anything. It really is.

For instance, I am incredibly liberal when it comes to social issues. Does that make me less of a Christian? Some would say yes. To me, no.

I just really don't like the blanket statement. And Christianity in America, compared to the way other religions are enforced elsewhere, is, well, there's no comparison.

[Zorro]

I disagree with Christians and do bash there beliefs because the want to interfere with me and my life directly

If Christians want to keep their faith to themselves then so be it but when it comes into public and tries to interfere and influence how my country is run then I'm going to bash it and its followers

What's kind of funny about this is if it weren't for Christians you wouldn't have the life you do.

[Furtherman]

But Jesus is a historical figure and while he was here he did certain miraculous things. That's historical.

That's incorrect. In fact, it's on an entirely bigger level of wrong.

There is no proof (and that christian site Tekton wouldn't decree him false, would they?).

There was a lot of people back then calming to be a son of god, a prophet, or a god themselves.

But the Jesus you think as a son of god? Look up HORUS. That's where the myth of jesus came from.

[Furtherman]

What's kind of funny about this is if it weren't for Christians you wouldn't have the life you do.

Millions of people don't grow up christian and lead good lives.

Or are you talking about the founding of America? Because christianity has absolutely nothing to do with that.

[keithy_19]

Millions of people don't grow up christian and lead good lives.

Or are you talking about the founding of America? Because christianity has absolutely nothing to do with that.

The laws in America are based on Judaeo-Christian principles.

[keithy_19]

There was a lot of people back then calming to be a son of god, a prophet, or a god themselves.

But the Jesus you think as a son of god? Look up HORUS. That's where the myth of jesus came from.

This is also true.

The lack of historical records though, doesn't mean he didn't exsist. The same goes for Moses. Moses was a historical figure. He may not have been named Moses, but there was a man who lead the Jewish people out of Egypt. The lack of documentation is on account of the Egyptians refusing to tell of him.

[KatPw]

The laws in America are based on Judaeo-Christian principles.

The laws of America are based on the laws of England.

[Furtherman]

The laws in America are based on Judaeo-Christian principles.

Wrong.

We were founded on the beliefs at the time. 18th century reasoning. People who considered themselves coming out of an enlightened age and many of our leaders - the more educated, smarter and world traveled than the masses - considered deism and agnosticism ruled when talking among other leaders - for trade - for profit.

I should have specified - I was talking about people actually coming to the continent.

Oh sure, the notion of "one nation under god" was present during the founding fathers reigns...as it was everywhere... we were still a naive species then (and now) but our nation was was more about tolerance and freedom for the "pursuit of happiness".

[Furtherman]

This is also true.

The lack of historical records though, doesn't mean he didn't exsist. The same goes for Moses. Moses was a historical figure. He may not have been named Moses, but there was a man who lead the Jewish people out of Egypt. The lack of documentation is on account of the Egyptians refusing to tell of him.

Oh man Keithy... I know you're young but maybe you should take a history class that focuses on the ancient middle east when you go back to school.

There was no Moses. There was no exodus. There was no Egyptian cover-up.

[booster11373]

This is also true.

The lack of historical records though, doesn't mean he didn't exsist. The same goes for Moses. Moses was a historical figure. He may not have been named Moses, but there was a man who lead the Jewish people out of Egypt. The lack of documentation is on account of the Egyptians refusing to tell of him.

It would have been impossible for the Pyramids to have been built by Jewish slaves, Historians agree that the Pyramids were built by eqyptians during the flood season on the Nile when farming was not possible

[keithy_19]

Oh man Keithy... I know you're young but maybe you should take a history class that focuses on the ancient middle east when you go back to school.

There was no Moses. There was no exodus. There was no Egyptian cover-up.

Than I guess my Western Civ course was wrong.

[booster11373]

To me that is incredibly closed minded. Not all Christians are trying to force their views on you. It's a shame that religion plays a factor in anything. It really is.

For instance, I am incredibly liberal when it comes to social issues. Does that make me less of a Christian? Some would say yes. To me, no.

I just really don't like the blanket statement. And Christianity in America, compared to the way other religions are enforced elsewhere, is, well, there's no comparison.

You are correct about that not all Christians are trying to force their views upon me just the one's in the White house, senate and congress

[keithy_19]

You are correct about that not all Christians are trying to force their views upon me just the one's in the White house, senate and congress

Which I also don't like. I don't like anyone to push their views on me. Whether I agree with them or not.

[yojimbo7248]

I miss JerseySean. I'd love to hear what he has to say about Bush stabbing the evangelicals in the back. I'm not being a smartass. I appreciated hearing a thoughtful Republican.

[Furtherman]

Than I guess my Western Civ course was wrong.

The one you took was. Was it in high school? A 30 year old textbook? Look up some recent publishings. Even National Geographic had an excellent show on last month called The Bible's Hidden Secrets. Most archaeologist today, even prominent Jewish ones awho are also Rabbis acknowledge that the exodus never happened and it was just a metaphor for the notion of hope and freedom.

[booster11373]

This NOT directed at anyone here but the lack of understanding that people have about their religion and their country are astounding to me

[Furtherman]

This NOT directed at anyone here but the lack of understanding that people have about their religion and their country are astounding to me

It's a lack of curiosity too. People believe what they're told as children - not enough look to find the truth themselves.

But it is the same in every country, continent, city, home, etc. throughout time. Children are taught that where they came from is the center of their knowledge. Their people, their country, their race is the best.

When I was 10 I knew and believed of Noah's Ark, Moses, the Nativity story, Jesus, the first Thanksgivings with Pilgrims and Indians, the starving soldiers at Valley Forge during the Revolutionary War, the Civil War was about slavery, and JFK was a good enough man to hang next to another good man, the pope.

All bullshit. I'm embarrassed looking back on that kid. Taught lies.

You have to overcome the primitive thinking and brainwashing in order to see how the world really is.

It's not pretty. Far from paradise. But at least you're content with the truth.

[keithy_19]

The one you took was. Was it in high school? A 30 year old textbook? Look up some recent publishings. Even National Geographic had an excellent show on last month called The Bible's Hidden Secrets. Most archaeologist today, even prominent Jewish ones awho are also Rabbis acknowledge that the exodus never happened and it was just a metaphor for the notion of hope and freedom.

It was in college. We had a text book, but we didn't use it often.

And as I've researched in the past hour, a lot of people, even prominent Rabbis as you say, have come out and said it was a metaphor. A fanciful story of hope.

There are still some, though, who are able to link a lot of what the Bible says to actual events that happened.

For most of my history, I go to this guy.

http://uktv.co.uk/images/standarditem/L1/539121_L1.jpg

[scottinnj]

For most of my history, I go to this guy.

http://uktv.co.uk/images/standarditem/L1/539121_L1.jpg

Even he acknowledges that Jesus existed. He may not believe he is the Messiah, but he does believe there was a Jesus.


I believe there was a Mohammed as well. Just because I don't believe the religion of Islam, I'm not foolish to dismiss the existence of it's founder.

But then again, I was taught the "lie" about Valley Forge too. I guess I'm just a fool.

[Death Metal Moe]

I love this thread.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/charliecorpse/antijesus.jpg

[keithy_19]

I believe there was a Mohammed as well. Just because I don't believe the religion of Islam, I'm not foolish to dismiss the existence of it's founder.



I watched an interesting program about the history of the Koran. It's not my religion, yet I'm fascinated by it.

[scottinnj]

I love this thread.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p299/charliecorpse/antijesus.jpg

Yep, me too. I really like the board in general-except for a touch of ribbing coming from both sides, I've always been amazed at the respect paid to each other personally when "controversial" threads like this pop up.

[scottinnj]

I watched an interesting program about the history of the Koran. It's not my religion, yet I'm fascinated by it.

Same with me, along with Buddhism. Not my cup of tea, but always interested in asking people who follow those faiths their thoughts on current events and issues.

[keithy_19]

Same with me, along with Buddhism. Not my cup of tea, but always interested in asking people who follow those faiths their thoughts on current events and issues.

I try to follow the teachings of Tao, as well as the teachings of Jesus.