The Afterlife

[GregoryJoseph]

For those who believe in an afterlife, what do you think it really is like? Will you have a physical body? Consciousness? Thought? Do you recognize others? Do our "souls" go on to another dimension, or do they stay here and enter another; a sort of reincarnation?

I know there will be tons of "there is no aftelife. It's all a fairy tale. You die and that's it" type answers, and that may be true, but no one can say for certain. I'm more interested in responses from those who truly believe the end of their physical existence isn't the end of their spiritual life.

I've long believed that our "soul" (I always thought of it more as a life force) left the body when it died and just became part of the universe, with no thought or intelligence or personality. I envisioned it more of an electrical impulse than anything else. Now I'm not so sure.

[Judge Smails]

A world of neverending happiness. You can always see the sun - day or night.

So, when you call up that shrink in Beverly Hills - you know the one - Dr. Everything's Gonna Be All Right - don't bother asking how of your mind is left - ask him how much of your time, baby. Cause in this life things are much harder than in the afterworld. in this life - you're on your own.

[ecobag2]

The idea of being an individual with an immutable personality that's fixed and will die is a myth to begin with. It's out of necessity that we appear as such.

There is a source that gives existence to all things. And this source is the only thing that truly exists. You personally are the smallest appendage on the production end of this source. If you travel back through time and space and what appears to be history (all events are concurrent) you'll find that:

1. you (as mentioned) are truly not you but part of something else
2. you've existed for all time
3. you are completely alone and are running out of things to distract yourself with and are soon going to go completely mad with the realization that you'll exist forever alone. Talking to someone is going to be readily apparent to you as a conversation with yourself. Everyone you meet is you and the subject is the same.

So - there is no death. There was never a birth. You made it all up to occupy yourself and are hoping desperately that someone else comes along to rescue you from eternal isolation.

[Bellyfullasnot]

The timing on this thread is great. My soon to be 6 yr. old has been asking a lot of questions about death and the afterlife. I don't have the "right" answer. I know that nobody really has the "right" answer. I'm not too worried about his questions because after we talked it out, I think he was concerned that he may have a "clock" or "hit points".

"Are there toys in heaven?"- snot's tot 12/29/08

[RoseBlood]

What's made you have a change of opinion? For those that share your previous ideology, that's fine because that is what's kept you living the life you wished. But time and experience sometimes changes our outlook and so it's only natural you'd start questioning your previous beliefs.

I've always been a hard sell concerning anything that couldn't be scientifically proven: the paranormal, UFO's, Biblical stories etc. I don't take Ouja Boards or Seances seriously and tend to think those that do are attention, drama seeking kooks. This is where my practical nature ceases to exist.

At this point in my life I tend to want to believe in an "afterlife" and "reincarnation". I'm slightly fascinated with it but, not obsessed. I take comfort in thinking I'll see my loved ones when I pass. For me, to think death is final is too depressing. Maybe it is and I'm wrong, but since I'll never know, believing this is what helps me feel purpose in this life.

I don't even take this as a true belief system or feel others would benefit from believing. It's a notion I've drawn up in my mind which puts me at ease with death. There is no rhyme or reason and I'm not sure if I'd want to preach this to my future children because it's something that should be personal to the individual.

The idea of being an individual with an immutable personality that's fixed and will die is a myth to begin with. It's out of necessity that we appear as such.

There is a source that gives existence to all things. And this source is the only thing that truly exists. You personally are the smallest appendage on the production end of this source. If you travel back through time and space and what appears to be history (all events are concurrent) you'll find that:

1. you (as mentioned) are truly not you but part of something else
2. you've existed for all time
3. you are completely alone and are running out of things to distract yourself with and are soon going to go completely mad with the realization that you'll exist forever alone. Talking to someone is going to be readily apparent to you as a conversation with yourself. Everyone you meet is you and the subject is the same.

So - there is no death. There was never a birth. You made it all up to occupy yourself and are hoping desperately that someone else comes along to rescue you from eternal isolation.

This is part of the reason I believe in an afterlife and reincarnation. As a species we are constantly evolving and as individuals we are as well. So how can I believe death is final? The ultimate goal for many is to become a better person (however you define such). While we may only get one life on earth and we are responsible for our decisions.. I do believe in the old proverb: "everything happens for a reason". Each time we come back perhaps with lessons learned from a previous life and keep coming back till we get it 'right'?
This idea might contradict my tendency to want to believe we will be reunited with lost loved ones once we die, but this just may be my way of lessoning the hurt of loosing someone.

There is a slightly morbid school of thought which says that we are all reincarnated because as our bodies decompose, the nutrients and remains are absorbed back into the earth, feeding plants, grass.. which feeds livestock, which feeds next generations etc etc. I don't know about that but it's something to consider.

this explains things much much better than I do, for anyone that's interested (http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2005/07/reincarnation.html)

[patsopinion]

I'm training myself to enjoy the smell of sulfur and the smell of my own skin burning

[GregoryJoseph]

What's made you have a change of opinion? For those that share your previous ideology, that's fine because that is what's kept you living the life you wished. But time and experience sometimes changes our outlook and so it's only natural you'd start questioning your previous beliefs.

It's not necessarily a change of opinion, Rose, but rather I've began questioning my beliefs. The longer I live and the more I study, meditate, and converse with others on matters of spirituality, the more I realize that no school of thought is "right." I've discussed philosophical and ethereal matters with a wide variety of people; from various religious leaders to friends to customers of mine to the guy in the 7-11 yesterday morning who was cleaning the coffee station while I was waiting for a pot of coffee to brew. (What a great guy, by the way. I've got to go back to that particular store.)

A few months back while I was meditating on the Yin and Yang I came up with the idea that maybe we're not human beings living a spiritual life, but rather spiritual beings living a human life. Perhaps this mortal shell we inhabit is our cocoon, and when we "die" we're merely caterpillars becoming butterflies.

I've also realized that thinking every single question about life has a scientific explanation is just as narrow minded as thinking religion holds all the answers. Extremism on either side is foolish. Vision, for example, is explained as working the exact same way a camera lens "sees" something. It's partly true, but not entirely. Our eyes may "see" everything, but the only things that register are what our filters allow to pass through. Our thoughts and emotions block many things. If you can strip away some of these filters you begin to see a lot more than you ever thought possible.

What if it's possible to see someone's "soul" or "spirit"? I don't know if it is, but if so, I don't know that we'd need our eyes to recognize that spirit again once it is freed, along with our own.

I really like ecobag's and Bellyfullasnot's posts, too. It shows they've definitely given some thought to the subject. Thanks, guys.

And Bellyfull? I commend your kid for being smart enough to know the greatest question known to man at such a young age! And I commend you for being smart enough to realize that neither you nor anybody has the "right" answer.

[A.J.]

Something like this actually: existence on another plane/dimension maybe as energy.

http://www.dvdactive.com/images/editorial/screenshot/2006/9/spirits1983.jpg

[RoseBlood]

I've discussed philosophical and ethereal matters with a wide variety of people; from various religious leaders to friends to customers of mine to the guy in the 7-11 yesterday morning who was cleaning the coffee station while I was waiting for a pot of coffee to brew. (What a great guy, by the way. I've got to go back to that particular store.)

This guy?! :ohmy:

Holy Christ what a creepy fuck I just saw in a convenience store.

He was wearing a leather biker jacket (with a Spider-Man pin), buying Camel no filters, had classic crazy eyes, and he reeked of B O so badly the girl behind the counter had tears in her eyes. The stench lingered after he left and when I got to the counter I nearly puked.

[ecobag2]

I tend to answer these things just to get a bearing on my whacky thinking.

I'd love to believe fluffy clouds but Ron breaks this down so awfully funny that it's lumacrips in the end.

I like thinking that at any given moment - appearances are not necessarily what they seem and that though it looks like we're still alive and looks like we're still in 2008 in America we may have been transported to the other side of the universe for some purpose... interacting with the already deceased in the form of people that we would normally see on any given day.

It would explain why some people are completely different from the last time you interacted with them and there's no consistency in experience. Chaos in a sense.

So maybe I'm dead. And you're all in the spirit world with me helping me work out some shit. You don't know for sure.

[GvacMobile]

I tend to answer these things just to get a bearing on my whacky thinking.

I'd love to believe fluffy clouds but Ron breaks this down so awfully funny that it's lumacrips in the end.

I like thinking that at any given moment - appearances are not necessarily what they seem and that though it looks like we're still alive and looks like we're still in 2008 in America we may have been transported to the other side of the universe for some purpose... interacting with the already deceased in the form of people that we would normally see on any given day.

It would explain why some people are completely different from the last time you interacted with them and there's no consistency in experience. Chaos in a sense.

So maybe I'm dead. And you're all in the spirit world with me helping me work out some shit. You don't know for sure.

Much like the dream of the ancient Taoist philosopher Chuang Tzu. He said he dreamt he was a butterfly, fluttering and flying wherever he pleased. It felt so real he was unsure if he was a man dreaming he was a butterfly or vice versa.

[ecobag2]

Much like the dream of the ancient Taoist philosopher Chuang Tzu. He said he dreamt he was a butterfly, fluttering and flying wherever he pleased. It felt so real he was unsure if he was a man dreaming he was a butterfly or vice versa.

oooh. I'll meditate on that as I go buy a product at Home Depot now.

[GvacMobile]

oooh. I'll meditate on that as I go buy a product at Home Depot now.

You're no butterfly.

[ecobag2]

You're no butterfly.

I like to think that no matter what "awful" and mundane thing I'm doing - even if wrong ... there's a salvagable positive moment or element in it. Even standing in line at checkout is an opportunity.

Today I will try to be a butterfly even as I oppress. I will see the yin in what appears all yang.

[GvacMobile]

I like to think that no matter what "awful" and mundane thing I'm doing - even if wrong ... there's a salvagable positive moment or element in it. Even standing in line at checkout is an opportunity.

Today I will try to be a butterfly even as I oppress. I will see the yin in what appears all yang.

I like the cut of your jib.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

I had things to say, but I think everyone already knows the shit I'd talk about and I'd be educating nobody on this subject. I'll simply say I believe there is no justification for anyone's belief but such things aren't needed to have a belief mean something- if that makes sense to you folks.

[GregoryJoseph]

I had things to say, but I think everyone already knows the shit I'd talk about and I'd be educating nobody on this subject. I'll simply say I believe there is no justification for anyone's belief but such things aren't needed to have a belief mean something- if that makes sense to you folks.

No one's here to "educate" anyone, but rather to discuss our personal beliefs. I wish you would elaborate.

[epo]

It has been my belief that I know absolutely nothing about the afterlife. It would defy all logic for someone in this plane of existence to know or to claim to know the goods on the afterlife.

Within my beliefs, the next plane will someone involve my spiritual self and not my physical sense. I cannot see this journey moving on with a physical body as I don't believe that the physical self is the point of this existence.

What a higher power or powers have set up for that spiritual self is what I can't figure out, but rather prepare my spirit and mind for. The knowledge that I have acquired and the lessons I have learned with make that journey a bit more wonderful.

[GregoryJoseph]

Mr. epo - do you think you'll have the ability to sense or recognize others once you've passed on? Will you have any sense of consciousness or thought?

[Sue_Bender]

I'm training myself to enjoy the smell of sulfur and the smell of my own skin burning

I think you smell delicious.

[epo]

Mr. epo - do you think you'll have the ability to sense or recognize others once you've passed on? Will you have any sense of consciousness or thought?

My hope would be so. What would be the fun to exist with knowledge and enlightenment & yet not have a social aspect of some form to it?

Any thoughts on this?

[cougarjake13]

For those who believe in an afterlife, what do you think it really is like? Will you have a physical body? Consciousness? Thought? Do you recognize others? Do our "souls" go on to another dimension, or do they stay here and enter another; a sort of reincarnation?

I know there will be tons of "there is no aftelife. It's all a fairy tale. You die and that's it" type answers, and that may be true, but no one can say for certain. I'm more interested in responses from those who truly believe the end of their physical existence isn't the end of their spiritual life.

I've long believed that our "soul" (I always thought of it more as a life force) left the body when it died and just became part of the universe, with no thought or intelligence or personality. I envisioned it more of an electrical impulse than anything else. Now I'm not so sure.


i dont care what else i have as long as i still have my consciousness

[keithy_19]

I've imagined the afterlife as being different for everyone. A different state of perpetual happiness. Child like happiness. Nothing manufactured or contrived. Sheer bliss.

[Hottub]

*Tub fires up the Hammond*

Dearly beloved
We are gathered here today
to get through this thing called life;

Electric word life
It means forever and that's a mighty long time
But I'm here to tell you,
There's something else;
The afterworld

A world of never ending happiness
You can always see the sun, day or night.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

No one's here to "educate" anyone, but rather to discuss our personal beliefs. I wish you would elaborate.

That's exactly why I would remain silent. I am too young to have a mature understanding of another's faith let alone my own and then put it to words in a manner that remotely justifies what I'm trying to say. In the end I would impudently think I am going to educate someone on faith- which is usually the purpose of any sermon or preach-job- and that is not my place either in life or even on somewhere as casual as anonymous messageboards :-P

It's just my belief.

[yojimbo7248]

First of all, thanks for starting this thread. Discussions like this add a nice variety to the board.

I believe that some part of our energy continues on after death but it is very different from our current identities. I don't think a soul or a ghost or anything really resembling us continues on but some essential part of who we are does. I am a big believer that our current perception of ourselves and the world is wrong. I think we all are a much more complex collection of energies than we can see at the moment. We flow back into a bigger stream of energy after death. I don't think this means that we are annihilated and don't exist after death, though. At the moment we are connected to everything through shared energies but we can't see that because of our false perception of the world and ourselves.

I know this all sounds like New Age bullshit. I am basically saying that we continue on but since we don't see things, people, ourselves, the universe, everything clearly at the moment, we can't even come close to comprehending the afterlife.

[yojimbo7248]

The idea of being an individual with an immutable personality that's fixed and will die is a myth to begin with. It's out of necessity that we appear as such.

There is a source that gives existence to all things. And this source is the only thing that truly exists. You personally are the smallest appendage on the production end of this source. If you travel back through time and space and what appears to be history (all events are concurrent) you'll find that:

1. you (as mentioned) are truly not you but part of something else
2. you've existed for all time
3. you are completely alone and are running out of things to distract yourself with and are soon going to go completely mad with the realization that you'll exist forever alone. Talking to someone is going to be readily apparent to you as a conversation with yourself. Everyone you meet is you and the subject is the same.

So - there is no death. There was never a birth. You made it all up to occupy yourself and are hoping desperately that someone else comes along to rescue you from eternal isolation.

This is exactly what I believe and you put it much better than I did.

[yojimbo7248]

I tend to answer these things just to get a bearing on my whacky thinking.

I'd love to believe fluffy clouds but Ron breaks this down so awfully funny that it's lumacrips in the end.

I like thinking that at any given moment - appearances are not necessarily what they seem and that though it looks like we're still alive and looks like we're still in 2008 in America we may have been transported to the other side of the universe for some purpose... interacting with the already deceased in the form of people that we would normally see on any given day.

It would explain why some people are completely different from the last time you interacted with them and there's no consistency in experience. Chaos in a sense.

So maybe I'm dead. And you're all in the spirit world with me helping me work out some shit. You don't know for sure.

I like your thinking. My strongest core belief is that almost everything our conscious thinking part of our brain tells us is wrong. Once we fully accept that, life is a hell of a lot more fun, interesting, and free.

[GregoryJoseph]

I am too young to have a mature understanding of another's faith let alone my own and then put it to words in a manner that remotely justifies what I'm trying to say.

I think you're more than capable, but if you choose not to participate, I understand.

First of all, thanks for starting this thread. Discussions like this add a nice variety to the board.

I believe that some part of our energy continues on after death but it is very different from our current identities. I don't think a soul or a ghost or anything really resembling us continues on but some essential part of who we are does. I am a big believer that our current perception of ourselves and the world is wrong. I think we all are a much more complex collection of energies than we can see at the moment. We flow back into a bigger stream of energy after death. I don't think this means that we are annihilated and don't exist after death, though. At the moment we are connected to everything through shared energies but we can't see that because of our false perception of the world and ourselves.

I know this all sounds like New Age bullshit. I am basically saying that we continue on but since we don't see things, people, ourselves, the universe, everything clearly at the moment, we can't even come close to comprehending the afterlife.

This sounds very similar to what I've long believed. Does the "essential part of who we are" that you mention have any consciousness?

[GregoryJoseph]

My hope would be so. What would be the fun to exist with knowledge and enlightenment & yet not have a social aspect of some form to it?

Any thoughts on this?

I'm still not sure we "exist" with knowledge and enlightenment when we pass on. I'm also not sure it's supposed to be fun!

A lot of my questioning began when I started to fully understand what's meant by someone's 'aura.' There is a distinct energy to each of us, and if that is what departs when the human body dies, will the 'aura' of another sense its presence? Recognize it? Combine with it?

So many questions!

[GregoryJoseph]

Something like this actually: existence on another plane/dimension maybe as energy.

http://www.dvdactive.com/images/editorial/screenshot/2006/9/spirits1983.jpg

Can you fix the link?

And also, do you think we have any sense of self on this other plane/dimension?

[yojimbo7248]

I think you're more than capable, but if you choose not to participate, I understand.



This sounds very similar to what I've long believed. Does the "essential part of who we are" that you mention have any consciousness?

That's the big question. I have a hard time getting my mind around how much of us carries on after death and whether that includes consciousness. Charlotte Joko Beck wrote about how we are like little whirlpools in the energy stream. At death, the whirlpools return to the greater river. I like this metaphor but it does seem as though it means that we dissolve and lose all consciousness and any sense of our former identity. I have a hard time accepting this and feel as though something that is uniquely us carries on after death.

I am a complete reincarnation agnostic but it would answer the consciousness carrying on question. It would make sense to me if we die, our energy carries on, and then regains consciousness at the next incarnation. Some of the wisest people I know completely believe in reincarnation but I have a very hard time accepting it.

[oldladyfacepuncher]

First of all, thanks for starting this thread. Discussions like this add a nice variety to the board.

I believe that some part of our energy continues on after death but it is very different from our current identities. I don't think a soul or a ghost or anything really resembling us continues on but some essential part of who we are does. I am a big believer that our current perception of ourselves and the world is wrong. I think we all are a much more complex collection of energies than we can see at the moment. We flow back into a bigger stream of energy after death. I don't think this means that we are annihilated and don't exist after death, though. At the moment we are connected to everything through shared energies but we can't see that because of our false perception of the world and ourselves.

I know this all sounds like New Age bullshit. I am basically saying that we continue on but since we don't see things, people, ourselves, the universe, everything clearly at the moment, we can't even come close to comprehending the afterlife.

I'm with you. As far as recognising other people, retaining knowledge of our physical life, keeping our persona, etc., I think all that becomes irrelevant when we move on from our physical bodies. I think we'll still have relationships with each other, but it'll be completely different, since life as we know will have completely changed. We'd be beings of energy, and without the physical confines we currently have, there wont be any societal constraints either.

[A.J.]

Can you fix the link?

And also, do you think we have any sense of self on this other plane/dimension?

You don't see the pic? It's the one of Anakin, Yoda and Obi Wan at the end of Return of the Jedi

And it wasn't meant as a joke response. I believe that the soul/spirit/katra whatever does not fade into oblivion after death. It continues on in another plane/dimension.

Yes, I think we retains our self-identity in a non-corporeal existence. It's kind of a mix of Star Wars and Star Trek themes -- which are no more ridiculous than what organized religion would have you believe.

[ecobag2]

I like your thinking. My strongest core belief is that almost everything our conscious thinking part of our brain tells us is wrong. Once we fully accept that, life is a hell of a lot more fun, interesting, and free.

This is why I tend to attack questions like this in what I imagine is a more philosophically deconstructionist sense. My premise for thinking anything at all with regard to the afterlife is to take a look at the burdensome language used to construct the question and the even more cumbersome underlying assumptions.

I was not... then I was... I am now... I will end. There will be a new chapter. So my whole life is a straight line that was started somewhere in what I consider to be reality and does not allow for any other possiblity ... and I'm no expert on recent develpments in physics but some (considered) credible thinkers and researchers in that field are finding that the only answer to some of the more troubling conundrums is accepting other realms and concurrent universes.

What if we appear to be linear out of necessity? That is - if I go mad with the realization that I'm three dimensionally physically and infinitely dimensinonal mentally and spiritually... how the fuck will I pay rent and buy groceries. How will I relate to others and find love?

So I give weight to the question "what comes next?" by blindly assuming that my sensory experience and memory are the only true markers of reality. That I never was and then came into being and that I'll cease. And what is being? And when I hear ... what is it that recognizes that sound? and so forth.

The satiation of the curiosity of what goes on in an afterlife is nothing to me in comparison to the satiation of the question of "what's really going on here?" "is there really a past and a future?" I really like to play with the notion of time as a function of consciousness rather than as a fixed line that is travelled by me - me being the real thing.

I'd suggest a firm grasp on shared reality before really delving into stuff like this too btw. I mean - I live pretty comfortably now and it's nice to consider these things but I also enjoy the luxury of forsaking all of this stuff to say stuff like " my car gets pretty good gas milage" and "I had the best dinner tonight" ... there's no point otherwise.

I guess I'm saying I don't let the relentless pursuit of what might be the truth get in the way of living life and enjoying it.

[yojimbo7248]

This is why I tend to attack questions like this in what I imagine is a more philosophically deconstructionist sense. My premise for thinking anything at all with regard to the afterlife is to take a look at the burdensome language used to construct the question and the even more cumbersome underlying assumptions.

I was not... then I was... I am now... I will end. There will be a new chapter. So my whole life is a straight line that was started somewhere in what I consider to be reality and does not allow for any other possiblity ... and I'm no expert on recent develpments in physics but some (considered) credible thinkers and researchers in that field are finding that the only answer to some of the more troubling conundrums is accepting other realms and concurrent universes.

What if we appear to be linear out of necessity? That is - if I go mad with the realization that I'm three dimensionally physically and infinitely dimensinonal mentally and spiritually... how the fuck will I pay rent and buy groceries. How will I relate to others and find love?

So I give weight to the question "what comes next?" by blindly assuming that my sensory experience and memory are the only true markers of reality. That I never was and then came into being and that I'll cease. And what is being? And when I hear ... what is it that recognizes that sound? and so forth.

The satiation of the curiosity of what goes on in an afterlife is nothing to me in comparison to the satiation of the question of "what's really going on here?" "is there really a past and a future?" I really like to play with the notion of time as a function of consciousness rather than as a fixed line that is travelled by me - me being the real thing.

I'd suggest a firm grasp on shared reality before really delving into stuff like this too btw. I mean - I live pretty comfortably now and it's nice to consider these things but I also enjoy the luxury of forsaking all of this stuff to say stuff like " my car gets pretty good gas milage" and "I had the best dinner tonight" ... there's no point otherwise.

I guess I'm saying I don't let the relentless pursuit of what might be the truth get in the way of living life and enjoying it.

very interesting ideas. does your approach have any effect on how you live your day-to-day life? I'm asking because I share a lot what you expressed. I'm trying to apply it to my daily existence by trying to be open to other realms and realities every moment. We all still need to pay the bills and get our cars fixed but I hope to find a way to make this thinking more than an intellectual exercise. I don't mean to let it get in the way of living life but a way to enjoy life more because we understand how limited our perception is.

[PapaBear]

For those who believe in an afterlife, what do you think it really is like?
It is what it will be.

I believe there is one. I try to live my life in a way that I hope will make my afterlife a good one. If I'm successful in that effort, I'm not really concerned with the details.

[mendyweiss]

You don't see the pic? It's the one of Anakin, Yoda and Obi Wan at the end of Return of the Jedi

And it wasn't meant as a joke response. I believe that the soul/spirit/katra whatever does not fade into oblivion after death. It continues on in another plane/dimension.

Yes, I think we retains our self-identity in a non-corporeal existence. It's kind of a mix of Star Wars and Star Trek themes -- which are no more ridiculous than what organized religion would have you believe.
FYI
The afterlife is a no smoking area !!

[A.J.]

FYI
The afterlife is a no smoking area !!

I'll stand outside in Purgatory whilst I smoke.

[BillySolHarg]

First off, like everyone, I just simply don't know the answer. This is one of those deals where for some reason most believe that we're the only ones on this galaxy.

The Afterlife...I think that at times we experience our past lives in our dream state - that is when we're dreaming. So then I would suppose that "death" simply means the death of our physical bodies as we either go into the dream state, or into another life form.

[ecobag2]

I'm trying to apply it to my daily existence by trying to be open to other realms and realities every moment.

How are you doing this?

I have to think more about if anything I've mentioned above has any real bearing on my life. I think most of my moral habits are derived from my Catholic upbringing more than anything. But as I've mentioned, the mediation and pondering and whatnot is really giving me a better sense of the why behind the thou shalt not.

I'd say, off the top of my head, that the benefit of feeling the intelligence that allows you access to shifts in perception is an overall sense of calm. I've been trying to bring calm into any situation I can. But I don't force it either. If I can't be calm - sometimes I just let it rip. Fuck it. I got that from this book which is hokey but I'd recommend:

Way of the Peacful Warrior (http://www.amazon.com/Way-Peaceful-Warrior-Changes-Lives/dp/1932073205/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230919280&sr=8-1)

This one was pivotal in explaining a lot of necessary Buddhist concepts in novel form (it's a fictionalization of the Buddha's journey) and is a classic so maybe you've even read it:

Siddartha (http://www.amazon.com/Siddhartha-Shambhala-Classics-Hermann-Hesse/dp/1570627215/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230919374&sr=1-1)

And calm - as I've mentioned is key for me - so lately I've been reading meditations from this (b/c I love and totally do not understand anger)
Taming the Tiger (http://www.amazon.com/Taming-Tiger-Within-Meditations-Transforming/dp/1594481342/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230919496&sr=1-1)

And now I'm completely off on a tangent but thanks YoJimbo - this is very helpful in my day. Not helpful in getting me out to the fireplace store so I can finally hook up this wood stove that's languishing in my dining room, but helpful nonetheless.:)

Peace.

[GregoryJoseph]

This is why I tend to attack questions like this in what I imagine is a more philosophically deconstructionist sense. My premise for thinking anything at all with regard to the afterlife is to take a look at the burdensome language used to construct the question and the even more cumbersome underlying assumptions.

I was not... then I was... I am now... I will end. There will be a new chapter. So my whole life is a straight line that was started somewhere in what I consider to be reality and does not allow for any other possiblity ... and I'm no expert on recent develpments in physics but some (considered) credible thinkers and researchers in that field are finding that the only answer to some of the more troubling conundrums is accepting other realms and concurrent universes.

What if we appear to be linear out of necessity? That is - if I go mad with the realization that I'm three dimensionally physically and infinitely dimensinonal mentally and spiritually... how the fuck will I pay rent and buy groceries. How will I relate to others and find love?

So I give weight to the question "what comes next?" by blindly assuming that my sensory experience and memory are the only true markers of reality. That I never was and then came into being and that I'll cease. And what is being? And when I hear ... what is it that recognizes that sound? and so forth.

The satiation of the curiosity of what goes on in an afterlife is nothing to me in comparison to the satiation of the question of "what's really going on here?" "is there really a past and a future?" I really like to play with the notion of time as a function of consciousness rather than as a fixed line that is travelled by me - me being the real thing.

I'd suggest a firm grasp on shared reality before really delving into stuff like this too btw. I mean - I live pretty comfortably now and it's nice to consider these things but I also enjoy the luxury of forsaking all of this stuff to say stuff like " my car gets pretty good gas milage" and "I had the best dinner tonight" ... there's no point otherwise.

I guess I'm saying I don't let the relentless pursuit of what might be the truth get in the way of living life and enjoying it.

Are you really the same guy that was gngralencrckrs? Who would've guessed? :tongue:

I've really enjoyed reading your posts in this thread, as well as many others. Please continue to share your thoughts and ideas.

As far as your last sentence, of course we have to balance our physical and spiritual lives. Picking one extreme side over the other in any walk of life is folly. That was a lesson that took me a very long time to learn. I just fear far too many people choose to dwell entirely on their present, physical life and never bother to question or explore the other part, which is the exact opposite of the concern you expressed.

[yojimbo7248]

How are you doing this?

I'd say, off the top of my head, that the benefit of feeling the intelligence that allows you access to shifts in perception is an overall sense of calm. I've been trying to bring calm into any situation I can. But I don't force it either. If I can't be calm - sometimes I just let it rip. Fuck it.

Thanks for the book recommendations and please keep writing. I have enjoyed reading your posts.

I couldn't have put it better - access to shifts in perception lead to an overall sense of calm. I am a big Zen fan and sit regularly at the Fire Lotus Temple in Brooklyn. I find Zen meditation is the best way for me to stop the chattering monologue in my head long enough to see the world, friends, family, work, etc. more simply and clearly. I am still at the basic level of meditating and thoughts about what I am going to eat for lunch or whether or paid my electricity bill constantly come up. I do, however, rely on regularly sitting either at the temple or on my own to keep from clinging to my worries and fears. I also like the Zen emphasis on being truly engaged in everything you do and being fully focused on each moment.

Concerning death and the afterlife, I have found that this practice is especially helpful for people with terminal illnesses. Rather than looking forward to a heaven and trying to avoid the pain of the death process, I have seen Zen practitioners face death squarely, honestly, and bravely. It's not pretending that dying isn't painful but rather connecting with friends and family and fully engaging with the death process.

[GregoryJoseph]

Concerning death and the afterlife, I have found that this practice is especially helpful for people with terminal illnesses. Rather than looking forward to a heaven and trying to avoid the pain of the death process, I have seen Zen practitioners face death squarely, honestly, and bravely. It's not pretending that dying isn't painful but rather connecting with friends and family and fully engaging with the death process.

Isn't it refreshing when you see that other cultures do not have the irrational fear of death that seems to pervade ours? We know it's inevitable, yet we spend so much time worrying and weeping over it. Those that embrace it as part of the natural process of life seem so much more logical and at peace.

[ecobag2]

Are you really the same guy that was gngralencrckrs? Who would've guessed? :tongue:

. I just fear far too many people choose to dwell entirely on their present, physical life and never bother to question or explore the other part, which is the exact opposite of the concern you expressed.

Thanks for the book recommendations and please keep writing. I have enjoyed reading your posts.


To both of you thanks really. I've had little positive feedback with regard to this stuff (not really on the board but in life) and I think it's finding the right people and being honest.

I'm not the same guy that was gngralencrckrs in a sense and I hate to be pretentious about stuff like this (I can't stand that guy who acted "as though" when everyone's around smoking pot... idk if you know that guy "hey man I'm the buddah" no youre not) ... but if you catch my drift; I've changed. Part of the shift in name was really b/c I was experiencing some heat at work that I wasn't sure of the source so I figured maybe someone was into my posts. Maybe still but it's almost funny if that's the case.

Anyway - I truly believe that there comes a psychic shift in someone who does the work ... who slogs day in and out with the meditation and such. Much of it started with a friend and led me through drugs and insanity but since recovery 8 years ago, I've used 12 steps and from there, springboarded to becoming very creative with my spiritual endeavours. A little this, that... I will try anything and if it requires humility (true humility not just eating shit) it always ends up helping me and I'm getting better at the embarrasment part of that too.

I've worked out an immense immense immense amount of shit through paperbag3 on .net... I swear the board, especially the regulars, let me get away with awful (to me) shit and just ignored it. Anytime I was honest - they were there to support or whatever. I mean I'd have a post out there and have to stare it down and that came from who I think I am - but I know that's not me.. now how can I let that go? Or I'd watch my own reactions to people responding or jeering me and walk away with some serious work to do. Really fucking priceless.

My aikido practice really helps to motivate me to be calm more than anything. I'm finding more than usual that my throws are clean and relaxed and there's a big sound when I place someone down. But you also get a much better idea of how a shift in how you feel is powerful to someone else... b/c you literally cannot throw someone and if you change your mind, relax and experience greater calm you become more present and more powerful. It's just gotten to the point for me that I feel like I'm completing the last mile of a marathon and there's more work but some rest ahead at least.

Hey get this (chuckle chuckle) my fortune cookie tonight said "the job is well done" I love little coincidences. They say you're making spiritual progress when they pop up in your life. I haven't told anyone about the cookie and was glad my wife didn't ask.

[GregoryJoseph]

What do you guys think of the concepts of heaven and hell? Not as actual physical places, but is the afterlife different for those who have led a virtuous life versus those who led a life of lies, deceit, and hurting others?

Are the "bad" people forced to come back to earth again like the Hindus say and can only move on once they've led a spiritual life?

[ecobag2]

What do you guys think of the concepts of heaven and hell? Not as actual physical places, but is the afterlife different for those who have led a virtuous life versus those who led a life of lies, deceit, and hurting others?

Are the "bad" people forced to come back to earth again like the Hindus say and can only move on once they've led a spiritual life?

Note: this is long, rambling and unedited. It's easily my longest post and most similar to what would happen if my mind did Jaeger shots till 9pm in a dorm room and then I went out to a few house parties.

If you make it through and understand it... you likely won't. I'm copying and pasting it though and going to try to make sense of it later. But I have fun rambling on like this so that's really all it is.

What do you think of this:

In terms of what we were discussing before - there are multiple universes. In each seperate universe, there is the slightest deviation that truly seperates that universe from all of the others. This slightest deviation is so slight that this example should serve to illustrate what I mean - think of each seperate physical object you can sense (i.e. look at, touch, even a collection of molecules that you can smell) and think about breaking one of them down into smaller and smaller seperate parts until you've reached a numerical representation of just one part of that object:

I'm looking at a pen. So I seperate that into it's peices and I pop the ball point out. The ball point is an almagam of metals and I melt it and pull away the iron. I break the iron down to an atom, then so forth into quantum levels and beyond. Let's say theoretically I find a component of that quantity of iron that is so minute that it exists only in the mind of god. And then for that piece of that material there is a binary representation for each subpiece. Like:10010101101101 and when you move on to the next universe, the binary for that particular piece in question is 10001101101101 and so forth so that at that level, there are so many complex changes possible - that an entirely new universe is created.

And this holds true for each successive level of categorization for each piece of each thing event, person, circumstance, planet, void, nebula, eyeball - whatever that exists. Each of these things can be broken down and down and down to some binary representation that varies ever so slightly - this binary representation forming the last possible variation of anything in existence but going all the way up to gross events such as what would occur in a movie where the woman stays on the subway and doesn't meet her husband and have a great life and dies a drug addict - or she gets off and viola! totally different experience.

That said:

We move and think and act constantly without thinking about where and what universe we're in but our daily actions have their consequences - the negative consequences of wrong action being that we wind up in an eddy. Or, similar to the Hindu concept mentioned above, we do it again... then we act in a similar fashion and we wind up challenged with the event again... and again and again - and this can truly become a hell. And, as mentioned before, who's to say that we haven't died a million "deaths" and are just in a juxtapostition of universes that is the result of having made the same poor choice?

So we start making better choices and eventually ... we break free of the eddy and no longer are challenged with the tough situation that requires us to build character and surmount. We float down the river again - until another eddy. We're challenged again and maybe even challenged with many eddys at once (I just like the word eddy... I think it's funny it's a name - think, just getting stuck) and when we surmount these eddys we begin to think differently - we begin to see that we are constantly within a juxapostion of (almost) infinite universes that vary ever so slightly on the finest levels.

We're challenged with the realization that we're eternal and that rest comes when each challenge is surmounted to the extent that you begin to fine tune yourself on deeper levels. Perhaps instead of - I'm going to be positive toward people at all times instead of an asshole... you master that and move onto ...I'm going to think positively toward people at all times (which is the basis btw for drug induced paranoid psychosis that involves the belief that others can hear your thoughts... drugs will bring you up so quick that you think you need to stay there or you can't come back... when you come down sometimes ... very bad situation) and then you master that and realize... I need to work on this because I seem to get stuck in a 'hell' within the current juxaposition of universes and I want to flow down the river again - I feel like it brings me closer. And I really think that it's at these levels that you start getting immediate freedom and joy from right action and immediate pain from wrong... so that it becomes easy and second nature.

The end is that you flow out of these juxtapositions and truly realize your eternal nature. Death is conquered in that you realize there is no time, only postitioning and that positioning is dependent on right action and you see the passing of your body as another event in your eternal existence.

Um - so ... maybe in the scheme of things ... this whole process needs to continue regardless of whether or not you move your ass and do what's right - and if you stubbornly hold onto a pattern of action, thinking etc... of postive machination that effects undesirable change let's say, you get crushed by the universes that are attempting to bump and grind properly and you cease and become energy.

So there is a heaven - you make it out. Enlightenment. Attaining oneness with god/the universe - becoming the eternal wisdom.

There is a hell.

And there's the ultimate destruction of unconscious destruction. There are gods, there are unicorns.

I read something recently that getting beyond the ideas of existence and nothingness is the essence of meditaiton and enlightenment. That thinking "I exist" and "I one day will cease to exist" is a laughable illusion ... and that is is and that's all there is. If you dig.

[GregoryJoseph]

Oh I dig, egobag...I dig indeed!

That was an incredibly detailed and well thought out response. I'm on board with a lot of what you're saying, but I just want a bit of clarification on your views. When we realize our immortality, for lack of a better term, and move on to the 'oneness' and reach 'heaven' is another soul created in our place? That is, we're no longer part of the process and we're not constantly trying and trying again; we've succeeded and moved on. Our 'soul' is no longer a part of this universe, dimension, plane...whatever you wish to term it.

Or is there a finite amount of souls? If so, what happens when all of them attain the knowledge of correct living and move on?

[yojimbo7248]

Oh I dig, egobag...I dig indeed!

That was an incredibly detailed and well thought out response. I'm on board with a lot of what you're saying, but I just want a bit of clarification on your views. When we realize our immortality, for lack of a better term, and move on to the 'oneness' and reach 'heaven' is another soul created in our place? That is, we're no longer part of the process and we're not constantly trying and trying again; we've succeeded and moved on. Our 'soul' is no longer a part of this universe, dimension, plane...whatever you wish to term it.

Or is there a finite amount of souls? If so, what happens when all of them attain the knowledge of correct living and move on?

This thread has helped me realize that I don't believe in a soul. These ecobag and Gregory Joseph posts have made me think about this stuff more clearly than I have in awhile. When this thread began, I thought I believed in the continuation of our consciousness after death but I was wrong. Now I realize that on a deep level I had let go the idea of a 'soul'. Now I am leaning much more toward our consciousness being extinguished as we dissolve back into oneness after death. I am still deeply agnostic about all of this and am open to the idea of part of our personalities coming back when we are reincarnated.

I do believe that 'self' and 'soul' are an illusion and nothing resembling these two concepts exists now or after death. I guess all of this meditating with Zen Buddhists has deeply changed how i look at reality in ways that I wasn't even aware of.

Thanks guys for the posts. this has been extremely useful to me.

[GregoryJoseph]

This thread has helped me realize that I don't believe in a soul. These ecobag and Gregory Joseph posts have made me think about this stuff more clearly than I have in awhile. When this thread began, I thought I believed in the continuation of our consciousness after death but I was wrong. Now I realize that on a deep level I had let go the idea of a 'soul'. Now I am leaning much more toward our consciousness being extinguished as we dissolve back into oneness after death. I am still deeply agnostic about all of this and am open to the idea of part of our personalities coming back when we are reincarnated.

I do believe that 'self' and 'soul' are an illusion and nothing resembling these two concepts exists now or after death. I guess all of this meditating with Zen Buddhists has deeply changed how i look at reality in ways that I wasn't even aware of.

Thanks guys for the posts. this has been extremely useful to me.

Thank you for partaking. Your posts have been extremely useful to me.

If you look back at my original post in this thread, you'll see that I only recently began questioning whether or not we retain consciousness or have a soul, and I'm still questioning it.

I've long believed that our "soul" (I always thought of it more as a life force) left the body when it died and just became part of the universe, with no thought or intelligence or personality. I envisioned it more of an electrical impulse than anything else. Now I'm not so sure.

Hearing views from guys like you and ecobag have widened my perspective and I'm grateful for that.

[ecobag2]

Oh I dig, egobag...I dig indeed!



Hey!


....

That's a useful slip. Always good to be mindful of the ego and its destruction. The ego it would seem is that tangled knot within that we identify with. That we think is who we are... and the more we get unstuck, the more we become what seems to be one with the universe, but in reality - it's the realization that we are a universe unto ourselves. And I haven't quite reached that point - if it does at all exist. It seems to though. So - while we still appear as we always have to the outside world, within, we find the space that is who we are - which is whole and infinite. Again, I don't really get what happens after that.

This prompts me to review a Goleman book I picked up at random years ago in a used book store in Scranton. It's about various types of meditative practices... and this was looong before I ever sat with intent and ohmed or centered or was even very mindful at all. But I still have it.

I'm going to review what has already been charted as the various states of being that reach nirvana, samadhi etc... just for some possible clarification.

I'm so psyched this helps Gregory and Jimbo and it all reminds me that what we have here is the illusion of query and response... the illusion of investigation and discovery when (here's a clumsy attempt at clarification) let's say we three are points of location and energy interacting with what we have to form a more understandable point of view.

The question is as essential as the answer then. And the holder of the question and especially the asker - is as essential and should be as valued as the responder.

A guy I knew years ago and I were at a coffee shop one night listening to awful open mic and I brought this point up. He referenced a Cobain quote - something like "whittling your mind on the skull of another". Something like that.

My thought with regard to enlightenment is not so much a replacement. I mean-I've never understood it as "Ok, I'm enlightened, now I make a clone of myself on Earth and truly travel the universe." It's more like "oh, enlightenment, now I have to go use the bathroom.. and tonight we're going to see a movie and tomorrow I'll have to head out early b/c there should be traffic... " etc. I guess though there's no more stuff like "oh but ... I hate having to use the bathroom, and I don't really want to get my seat kicked in a theater and I hate that I have to leave so early and traffic stinks around here so much and blah blah blah"

You chop wood and carry water, you experience enlightenment, then you chop wood and carry water. Anyone who stops the show and tells you to bow before them because they're enlightened is full of shit.

Be in the world, rather than of it.

[GregoryJoseph]

Hey!


....

That's a useful slip. Always good to be mindful of the ego and its destruction. The ego it would seem is that tangled knot within that we identify with. That we think is who we are... and the more we get unstuck, the more we become what seems to be one with the universe, but in reality - it's the realization that we are a universe unto ourselves. And I haven't quite reached that point - if it does at all exist. It seems to though. So - while we still appear as we always have to the outside world, within, we find the space that is who we are - which is whole and infinite. Again, I don't really get what happens after that.

This prompts me to review a Goleman book I picked up at random years ago in a used book store in Scranton. It's about various types of meditative practices... and this was looong before I ever sat with intent and ohmed or centered or was even very mindful at all. But I still have it.

I'm going to review what has already been charted as the various states of being that reach nirvana, samadhi etc... just for some possible clarification.

I'm so psyched this helps Gregory and Jimbo and it all reminds me that what we have here is the illusion of query and response... the illusion of investigation and discovery when (here's a clumsy attempt at clarification) let's say we three are points of location and energy interacting with what we have to form a more understandable point of view.

The question is as essential as the answer then. And the holder of the question and especially the asker - is as essential and should be as valued as the responder.

A guy I knew years ago and I were at a coffee shop one night listening to awful open mic and I brought this point up. He referenced a Cobain quote - something like "whittling your mind on the skull of another". Something like that.

My thought with regard to enlightenment is not so much a replacement. I mean-I've never understood it as "Ok, I'm enlightened, now I make a clone of myself on Earth and truly travel the universe." It's more like "oh, enlightenment, now I have to go use the bathroom.. and tonight we're going to see a movie and tomorrow I'll have to head out early b/c there should be traffic... " etc. I guess though there's no more stuff like "oh but ... I hate having to use the bathroom, and I don't really want to get my seat kicked in a theater and I hate that I have to leave so early and traffic stinks around here so much and blah blah blah"

You chop wood and carry water, you experience enlightenment, then you chop wood and carry water. Anyone who stops the show and tells you to bow before them because they're enlightened is full of shit.

Be in the world, rather than of it.

Truer words were never spoken, my friend!

Another awesome post, and again thanks for your continued input. Your example of attaining enlightenment and then returning to chopping wood and carrying water reminds me of the old Zen parable - "Before I began studying Zen, a mountain was just a mountain and a river was just a river. When I started to understand Zen I realized a mountain was far more than just a mountain, a river far more than just a river. Now that I have mastered Zen, I see a mountain is just a mountain and a river is just a river."

There's a few more threads in this forum I'd love to get your input on. Check them out when you get a chance. I'd greatly appreciate it.

Oh, and I assure you, the "egobag" was a slip up! Nothing intentional or Freudian, I assure you!

[ecobag2]

"Before I began studying Zen, a mountain was just a mountain and a river was just a river. When I started to understand Zen I realized a mountain was far more than just a mountain, a river far more than just a river. Now that I have mastered Zen, I see a mountain is just a mountain and a river is just a river."



Very well put. It's similar in it's effect and I'll ponder that one often now.

[GregoryJoseph]

Today I found myself questioning exactly when our life force, our essence, our "spirit" if you will, leaves the body. Is it when the brain dies or when the heart stops?

Is it possible that it lingers for awhile after our physical body dies, and that's why there are cases of people coming back to life after they've been pronounced dead?

Can this essence leave our bodies and yet have the heart continue to pump?

The reason I began pondering all of this was because I thought of my grandmother today. She passed away on Christmas morning of 2002, but for all intents and purposes she was dead long before that. She had Alzheimer's and her condition deteriorated so rapidly that for the last 6 months of her life she was pretty much brain dead. They were feeding her intravenously to keep her "alive" but she was basically comatose. The doctors were mystified as to why her heart continued to beat, but she held on and on until Christmas day.

To me, my grandmother died when she was no longer aware and that's when I mourned her loss. When she passed away it was more of a relief than anything else because it was destroying my family to see her wasting away in a vegetative state.

I just can't figure out if her spirit was still there when she was being kept alive artificially, or if it left her when her mind had ceased functioning.

[booster11373]

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/mapofheaven.jpg

[midwestjeff]

My oldest sister says that you can feel something in the room when someone passes. She is a nurse that has spent a lot of time working in nursing homes with Alzeihmer's patients and the like and has been there to see many of them go. According to her, even the incoherent expel this energy. And she isn't some new age wacko or hardcore religious freak. Just a nurse that has felt shit when shit goes down. So there ya go, that's one perspective.

[jauble]

Today I found myself questioning exactly when our life force, our essence, our "spirit" if you will, leaves the body. Is it when the brain dies or when the heart stops?

Is it possible that it lingers for awhile after our physical body dies, and that's why there are cases of people coming back to life after they've been pronounced dead?

Can this essence leave our bodies and yet have the heart continue to pump?

The reason I began pondering all of this was because I thought of my grandmother today. She passed away on Christmas morning of 2002, but for all intents and purposes she was dead long before that. She had Alzheimer's and her condition deteriorated so rapidly that for the last 6 months of her life she was pretty much brain dead. They were feeding her intravenously to keep her "alive" but she was basically comatose. The doctors were mystified as to why her heart continued to beat, but she held on and on until Christmas day.

To me, my grandmother died when she was no longer aware and that's when I mourned her loss. When she passed away it was more of a relief than anything else because it was destroying my family to see her wasting away in a vegetative state.

I just can't figure out if her spirit was still there when she was being kept alive artificially, or if it left her when her mind had ceased functioning.

When my grandmother died of bone and other various cancers a weird thing happened. Although she was basically bedridden for a few months before she died, the night before she went she got up and walked into the room where my mother and my uncle were and told them that she loved them and the family and that everything was going to be ok and then she walked normally back to her room and died a few hours later.

[Friday]

the last day my mom was alive, her friend performed Reiki on her. she was trying to help coax the spirit out from the head... which many believe is where it exits from. my mom held on until about 5pm but then went to god very peacefully.

i tend to believe that the spirit flies from the body the minute their pulse ends... i don't know why. but it seems right to me. when i went to her apartment that night, i actually vocally asked her two beloved cats if she had "stopped by" on her way to heaven to kiss them goodbye.

maybe reading "The Lovely Bones" affected me more than I would like to admit... but I do believe that the soul leaves right away. but that doesn't mean it is gone for good. and i take GREAT comfort in thinking/knowing that the soul lives a new life afterwards... and is able to look in on us from time to time.

[GregoryJoseph]

My oldest sister says that you can feel something in the room when someone passes. She is a nurse that has spent a lot of time working in nursing homes with Alzeihmer's patients and the like and has been there to see many of them go. According to her, even the incoherent expel this energy. And she isn't some new age wacko or hardcore religious freak. Just a nurse that has felt shit when shit goes down. So there ya go, that's one perspective.

That's really interesting, and I've heard a lot of people say that before. Our own Dr. Steve has written a book about his experiences working as a hospice physician, and I'd love to hear all of his stories as well.

It's pretty funny how you're so positive you know the "truth" and all the answers when you're younger; I was always firmly in the camp of 'nothing happens; we go in the ground and rot and that's it' when the subject of death and the afterlife came up.

Now I'm more uncertain than ever and only have more questions each and every day.

[ecobag2]

I remember taking a psycobiology course in college in 98.

It's the study of our psychology based on brain function- basically ... let's bypass all the theory of why we act the way we do and let's see what we can find out from actually trying to figure out how this machine - the brain - works.

One of the things that struck me as insane... I mean - profoundly whacky - is how much electricity plays a part in our own bodies and especially in the function (or lack of function) of the neurons that compose the different sections of our brains.

I've always intended to take a look into the hippie/new age thinking on electromagnetism as a result because I'm convinced there's something there... and maybe a small percentage of this question might be answered in some of those findings.

No point to this.

[Radioguy]

I'm only dipping a toe into this discussion to note this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theoretical_death

Even now the definition of death, like life, is not set. As medical technology improves, what we now call "death" may be reversible.

[KC2OSO]

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