Drink/Drive/Kill......Is it murder?

[Nothing Sound]

Just finished watching this piece on 60 minutes. It was about that 7 year old girl
that was killed by a drunk driver. He was charged with murder instead of manslaughter.

What do you think? If someone drinks and then kills someone while
driving drunk, should they be charged with murder or manslaughter?

Maybe some of you even think they should just get a summons and pay a fine.

Feel free to discuss and maybe bring up some personal experiences.

[GregoryJoseph]

It really has to be a case by case basis. If someone is at exactly the legal limit (.08 in most states) that may mean they had a large glass of wine within the hour. I don't think it's the same as someone who is at a .38 BAC, who is falling down drunk and getting behind the wheel.

I also think that the best way to treat alcoholism (or any addiction) isn't by putting someone in a cell for the rest of their life, as outrageous as that may sound to those who crave vengeance and "an eye for an eye" type justice.

[Nothing Sound]

Here's the 60 minutes story (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/31/60minutes/main4694666.shtml)

[GreatAmericanZero]

if its something like, the child was on the sidewalk and the drunk fuck kills her cuz hes driving on the sidewalk like an asshole, then fuck him

but if its an accident than can reasonably happen whether sober or not, then you can't be that strict

[Sinestro]

What's the definition and consequences of each?

[MacVittie]

To me, murder always means premeditation, although I'm sure the law is not consistent with my belief.

[Nothing Sound]

What's the definition and consequences of each?

Murder is usually considered that you killed willingly.
Manslaughter is considered accidental death.

Murder = 15 years to life

Manslaughter = Probation - 15 years

[jauble]

There is also felony murder, which is a murder 1 charge. That is applied if you are commiting a felony and because of this felony someone dies (unintentionaly) you are facing life. Perfect example, in Springfield, OH two women stole enough property from a mall for it to be considered a felony. As they were being followed by security out the door they jumped into a waiting getaway car. The driver stepped on the gas and struck a pedestrian killing him. No one admitted to being the driver and all 3 got life.

[Friday]

Here's the 60 minutes story (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/31/60minutes/main4694666.shtml)

in this instance i have to agree with the murder charge.
you knowingly drink enough to put your BAL three times over the legal limit and then get behind the wheel of a car?
if that is not volunteering to commit a crime then nothing is. he KNEW the possible consequences.

maybe if there were other variables, or like GJ said; if the BAL was just enough for one glass of wine or something and the kid ran into the street.... things like that might change the overall picture.

[Tenbatsuzen]

There is also felony murder, which is a murder 1 charge. That is applied if you are commiting a felony and because of this felony someone dies (unintentionaly) you are facing life. Perfect example, in Springfield, OH two women stole enough property from a mall for it to be considered a felony. As they were being followed by security out the door they jumped into a waiting getaway car. The driver stepped on the gas and struck a pedestrian killing him. No one admitted to being the driver and all 3 got life.

On the flip side of that, the guy from the Sopranos got off because a cop was shot during a robbery. He didn't have the gun, he didn't pull the trigger, he got busted on murder charges and people threw a shit fit when he got off.

Personally, I think that what happened was correct. It's a shame a cop died, but he didn't pull the trigger and he didn't even have a gun on him.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I think if you've had a habit of DWI and/or drinking offenses and you kill someone, then yes, it's a murder charge.

First time offense with a high BAC? Manslaughter.

Don't forget, the difference in BAC is about 2-4 drinks for the normal person.

People like using the term "twice the legal limit", but there isn't THAT big of a difference.

[jauble]

On the flip side of that, the guy from the Sopranos got off because a cop was shot during a robbery. He didn't have the gun, he didn't pull the trigger, he got busted on murder charges and people threw a shit fit when he got off.

Personally, I think that what happened was correct. It's a shame a cop died, but he didn't pull the trigger and he didn't even have a gun on him.

Was he charged with murder 1 or felony murder, what you have to prove to convict is very different.

On a side note I thought you were talking about something that happened on the show. I'm glad I read it twice.

[JimBeam]

I know they are thinking that since he knew he was driving drunk that it could be considered premeditated but I think the manslaughter charge should be consistent.

I'd hate to see a person who does this get any more jail time than somebody who murders another person by premeditation.

... (.08 in most states) that may mean they had a large glass of wine within the hour.

Never happen unless that person weighs 40 pounds.

[jauble]

Never happen unless that person weighs 40 pounds.

GJ is a primordial dwarf.

[epo]

I know they are thinking that since he knew he was driving drunk that it could be considered premeditated but I think the manslaughter charge should be consistent.

I'd hate to see a person who does this get any more jail time than somebody who murders another person by premeditation.

Never happen unless that person weighs 40 pounds.

You've never seen the size of a GJ glass of wine.

[GregoryJoseph]

Every person's body chemistry metabolizes alcohol at a vastly different rate. Weight is only one variable. Another is the person's overall health. Diabetics, for example, can get loaded off of one beer.

I've also known guys who were 130 lbs. who could drink guys twice their size under the table.

[MacVittie]

maybe if there were other variables, or like GJ said; if the BAL was just enough for one glass of wine or something and the kid ran into the street.... things like that might change the overall picture.

I agree... if the accident was obviously a result of drinking then a harsh sentence should be given. If the accident happened for a variety of reasons and drinking happened to be involved, punishment should be strict but not severe.

[lleeder]

I just watched this. The craziest part was the grandfather recieved last rights from a priest and lived. 6 months later the preist gets hit and killed by a drunk driver. Freaky. I'm sure all of this was in the paper but who can read that thing?

[GreatAmericanZero]

in this instance i have to agree with the murder charge.
you knowingly drink enough to put your BAL three times over the legal limit and then get behind the wheel of a car?
if that is not volunteering to commit a crime then nothing is. he KNEW the possible consequences.

.

i didnt watch the piece, but if thats the case, yeah..he should get murder

theres a difference between driving and saying "im ok, i didnt drink that much" to just being a drunken asshole and driving anyway. i am sure ive driven when i was "legally drunk" but i never attempted to drive when i was really drunk

[JimBeam]

Blood Alcohol Contact is what it is.

The Intoxilyzer, the most common non-nad held machine ( at least 10 years ago ), measures the amount of alcohol in the blood by taking a reading of the blood that comes into contact w/ the lowest part of the lungs ( I believe the scientific term is " lower aviolar " air ).

The formula was, again 10 years ago, that a man of about 185 pounds would need something like 3.4 beers ( or glasses of wine or a short ) in an hour to be .10 and would need to have 1 an hour after that to remain that way.

Those numbers were based on standard domestic beers and don't take into account any higher percentage of alcohol beers, wines and liquor.

It really has nothing to do w/ what you eat because it's the alcohol in your blood and not the alcohol in your stomach.

There's a huge difference between being legally drunk and feeling drunk.

Functional alcoholics can have many more drinks than the average drinker and not appear to be drunk but that doesn't change their BAC.

[Brad_Rush]

It really has to be a case by case basis. If someone is at exactly the legal limit (.08 in most states) that may mean they had a large glass of wine within the hour. I don't think it's the same as someone who is at a .38 BAC, who is falling down drunk and getting behind the wheel.

I also think that the best way to treat alcoholism (or any addiction) isn't by putting someone in a cell for the rest of their life, as outrageous as that may sound to those who crave vengeance and "an eye for an eye" type justice.

I agree completely

[lleeder]

I had an alcohol related question I can ask here rather than start a thread. A 14 yr old kid got wasted on New Years Eve and died in the woods. Now a 19yr old and a 23yr old that got him the vodka are being charged. In the article they said "The 2 adults..." aren't they really kids themselves? I think its a shitty charge. I had people get my liquor all the time when I was underage. If I died it would have been my own stupid fault.

[GreatAmericanZero]

what do you get if you kill a 7 year old through "wreckless driving" but when you're not drunk. Like, what if you swerve and accidently hit one when you are trying to send a text message or playing with the radio?

[lleeder]

what do you get if you kill a 7 year old through "wreckless driving" but when you're not drunk. Like, what if you swerve and accidently hit one when you are trying to send a text message or playing with the radio?

textless endangerment:thumbdown:

[GreatAmericanZero]

textless endangerment:thumbdown:

no "thumbs down", that one made me laugh!

[britneypablo]

....do you leave ur car unlocked in the ghetto NO bc u know black thugs will steal your change and ur radio....
...dont even have one drink and drive...you know better than that

[lleeder]

....do you leave ur car unlocked in the ghetto NO bc u know black thugs will steal your change and ur radio....
...dont even have one drink and drive...you know better than that

I'd have a more favorable response to this, if it was done in a rambling video format.

[britneypablo]

I'd have a more favorable response to this, if it was done in a rambling video format.

i just tried and it didnt record the sound....ill work on that request a ramble video at a later date

[underdog]

I'd have a more favorable response to this, if it was done in a rambling video format.

:lol:

[Nothing Sound]

BTW

The guy in the 60 minutes piece was convicted of 2nd degree murder and is serving 18 - Life

[Friday]

I had people get my liquor all the time when I was underage. If I died it would have been my own stupid fault.

nope.
it would have been their fault.

just like if you get drunk and die in someone else's home and you are underage, they can be held liable for your death.

[lleeder]

BTW

The guy in the 60 minutes piece was convicted of 2nd degree murder and is serving 18 - Life

Ricky was a young boy. He had a heart of stone.

[Nothing Sound]

Ricky was a young boy. He had a heart of stone.

Lived 9 to 5 and worked his fingers to the bone.

[jauble]

The Intoxilyzer, the most common non-nad held machine

I really dont see nad held testing machines as constitutional.

[JimBeam]

Holding the nads is the only real way to tell how drunk they are.

The females well that's another story.

[beachbum]

I don't think a person should be charged with murder because like the attorney said,it seems to water down the charge for people who do commit the act.

I do think that there should be stricter sentencing and heavier penalties for those who commit such grievous acts.People get killed in car crashes every minute.People get dui's every minute(before you jump on my ass this is statistically untrue but I'm not going to look up the actual figures so fuck you).There are different murder charges and there should be different dui charges.The fuck that killed that little girl was like a 2.4bac doing 70mph going the wrong way on the parkway when he hit them head on.He also killed the limo driver.He deserves what he got.The system needs to be modified so that over zealous prosecuters don't use this model to ruin the lives of people who commit lesser violations in order to further their own careers.

[Nothing Sound]

The fuck that killed that little girl was like a 2.4bac...

a 2.4 would be impossible

I think you mean .24

[SatCam]

....do you leave ur car unlocked in the ghetto NO bc u know black thugs will steal your change and ur radio....
...dont even have one drink and drive...you know better than that

I agree. People who drive after drinking are pathetic

[Coach]

Blood Alcohol Contact is what it is.


Really? is that where your blood touches Alcohol?:innocent:

[PapaBear]

Blood Alcohol Contact is what it is.

Really? is that where your blood touches Alcohol?:innocent:
Don't mind him. He thinks Patsy Cline's reputation was tarnished because her hometown now has lots of 12 step meetings.

And for the record... It's Blood Alcohol CONCEPT! It's the concept that one must replace all one's blood with alcohol.:smoke:

[Coach]

Don't mind him. He thinks Patsy Cline's reputation was tarnished because her hometown now has lots of 12 step meetings.
ok.

And for the record... It's Blood Alcohol CONCEPT! It's the concept that one must replace all one's blood with alcohol.:smoke:
:lol::lol::king:

[Snoogans]

regardless of why, you can only murder someone if you intend to kill them. otherwise, its manslaughter.

[jauble]

regardless of why, you can only murder someone if you intend to kill them. otherwise, its manslaughter.

Dont worry snoogs, this man is on the case.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/encoders/quincy6.jpg

If anyone can figure it out its Quincy.

[Nothing Sound]

regardless of why, you can only murder someone if you intend to kill them. otherwise, its manslaughter.

There's also depraved murder which is killing someone while doing something you knew could hurt or kill someone.

Depraved murder carries pretty much the same penalty as intentional murder.

[A.J.]

Ricky was a young boy. He had a heart of stone.

Fucking awesome.