Beauty

[ecobag2]

This is a Dove commercial that was posted on this pretty cool site (I happened to find first through .net)

I've always heard railing against how ads sell an unattainable beauty ... I thought I understood that - but I didn't.

I put it here b/c it seemed to be serious. But ... if you find a joke here fire away.

I shuddered.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/beauty

[Thebazile78]

Dove's newest ads are part of their "Campaign for Real Beauty (http://www.dove.us/#/cfrb/)" which is less about an objective concept of beauty, or the idolization of models/actors who basically won the genetic lottery in the looks department, and more about the ability to not only accept yourself - and your flaws - but also to realize that you are more than the sum of your looks.

I don't know if men struggle with body image issues as openly as women do, but I can't name one woman I know, well-adjusted or not, who can't find SOMETHING wrong with her body.

Media talking head types have blamed this (and a lot of other issues, including anorexia and bulemia) on advertising and fashion images featuring models who are so thin they look like they'll blow away or actresses with perfect features "telling" us that we're not beautiful unless we buy this or that product ... or lose 20 pounds ... or wear this type of clothing ... or whatever.

(I don't buy the media explanation for my own body image issues, but I do buy it for some of my friends' issues!)

Anyway, this whole new set of ads, featuring REAL WOMEN, is supposed to enforce the idea that beauty is not something that's objective ... and everyone has something beautiful about them. Positive role modeling and all that, you know?

[topless_mike]

beauty is bullshit. its what you like.
there are lots of women i feel are beautiful that most others may not even look twice at.
if you fall into that supermodel/beauty bullshit, its your own fault.

liz, men do have body image issues, but like everything else, they just get put on the shelf and collect dust.

[RoseBlood]

I'm not being catty, but I don't think many of the celebrities who we are told are supposedly "hot" are anything more than average looking people.

Even with the fancy make-up, special lighting and stylists; people like Paris Hilton and Tila Tequila are not especially attractive. I am trying very hard to not let my personal opinion of their vapidness influence how I see their physical beauty (or lack of).

You can walk onto any random college campus and see a ton better looking females. I'd even go so far as to say your local Wal-Mart.

What concerns me is young pre-teen girls see them getting so much attention and they try to dress like them thinking that's what makes you beautiful. I can only hope that like every generation that preceeded this one, they will eventually come to their senses with adulthood and develop their own style and true beauty.. or whatever.

[Thebazile78]

...

liz, men do have body image issues, but like everything else, they just get put on the shelf and collect dust.

I never denied that men have body image issues, I just said that I don't know if you're as "public" about it as women can be.

For the most part, a guy isn't going to look in the mirror and harp on a single feature or whatever over and over and over again ... and then tell all his friends about how horrific he is. Right? Girls do that. I've stopped being friends with people who do that because I find it so tedious.

[Thebazile78]

....

What concerns me is young pre-teen girls see them getting so much attention and they try to dress like them thinking that's what makes you beautiful. I can only hope that like every generation that preceeded this one, they will eventually come to their senses with adulthood and develop their own style and true beauty.. or whatever.

That's what Dove's program is all about.

Part of their "Campaign for Real Beauty" involves spending money to ensure that the self-esteem issues many susceptible girls have won't become larger problems later in life, including depression, anorexia, bulimia and abusive relationship cycles. They call this the Dove Self Esteem Fund (http://www.dove.us/#/CFRB/selfesteem/).

[Ritalin]

As a photographer that video doesn't shock me in the least. I've been known to do photoshop favors for family members in the christmas photo album.

Marketers are doing what they are supposed to do: make their products as attractive as possible so you'll buy them. It's all artifice.

And it's not just beauty. What about the truck commercials with the disclaimers that those neat little tricks are being done on a closed course with professional drivers? Do you know how much effort it takes to make a burger and fries look great and tasty for a picture? When they try to sell you a sofa, they don't shoot it in a house that looks anything like yours. It's much nicer. Nothing nothing nothing nothing in print or on television is what it says it is.

If there's any problem it's that most of this country is stupid and doesn't understand what I just said. (present company excluded, of course)

It's an interesting campaign that Dove is running, but understand that it's still all just marketing, and they're literally selling soap. It's counter programming. They can't compete trying to tell you that Dove is going to make you beautiful, so they're telling you that you're already beautiful, and since we said that will you buy our soap?

I just don't buy this notion that advertising and the media is to blame for anorexia and bulimia. I would say that both of those conditions are a lot more complicated than "girls can't compete with the skinny girls on magazine covers".

Trust me: the average girl has no better chance of looking like a model then I do of winning the Olympic marathon. I've met hundreds of models, and you're either born with it or you're not. If you go back and look at that video you'll look at that girl at the beginning and think that she's pretty, but no big deal. You'd be wrong. She came in with clean hair and makeup and still if she walked into the room with you you'd be floored. It's just a certain quality good models have.

Good for Dove. I think it's a positive message, and I will honestly make the choice to buy one of their products because of it.

But they're saying what every single mother should be telling their daughters every single day, anyway.

[topless_mike]

I never denied that men have body image issues, I just said that I don't know if you're as "public" about it as women can be.

For the most part, a guy isn't going to look in the mirror and harp on a single feature or whatever over and over and over again ... and then tell all his friends about how horrific he is. Right? Girls do that.

well, yes and no.
men do harp themselves over body parts. aside from King Lex, what man wouldnt want another 2-3 or :glurps: 4 inches of rod? some men joke in jest about the short short man with their friends. i know i do. but if my boy constantly complained about his 2 inch terror, i wouldnt stop being friends with him, unless it became epic.

[Thebazile78]

...
It's an interesting campaign that Dove is running, but understand that it's still all just marketing, and they're literally selling soap. It's counter programming. They can't compete trying to tell you that Dove is going to make you beautiful, so they're telling you that you're already beautiful, and since we said that will you buy our soap?

I just don't buy this notion that advertising and the media is to blame for anorexia and bulimia. I would say that both of those conditions are a lot more complicated than "girls can't compete with the skinny girls on magazine covers".

Trust me: the average girl has no better chance of looking like a model then I do of winning the Olympic marathon. I've met hundreds of models, and you're either born with it or you're not. If you go back and look at that video you'll look at that girl at the beginning and think that she's pretty, but no big deal. You'd be wrong. She came in with clean hair and makeup and still if she walked into the room with you you'd be floored. It's just a certain quality good models have.

Good for Dove. I think it's a positive message, and I will honestly make the choice to buy one of their products because of it.

But they're saying what every single mother should be telling their daughters every single day, anyway.

I agree that there are more complex causes out there for things like anorexia and bulimia, and I was only bringing that up because I'm sick and tired of hearing about how all the world's ills could be cured if we didn't have "the media" ... no, they wouldn't. (We'd probably hear a lot less about them, though.)

Magazines, advertising, TV and movies are just convenient scapegoats for the blame du jour. This kind of reminds me of how rock music was supposed to make you into a satanist or how playing Dungeons and Dragons was turning kids evil. Or even fucking Barbie presenting an unrealistic image of adulthood to little girls.

Now record albums carry advisory labels, D&D is dorky but not as dorky as LARPing, and Barbie's measurements have been changed to bring her more in line with an average (very thin) woman's body.

I'm fascinated by this advertising campaign, which is entering its 5th year. It was hailed as groundbreaking in its first few weeks and I think there's a lot of value in its goals. Even if it is just selling soap. Its emphasis on "real" women, not people who've pretty much won the genetic lottery, is encouraging. While it wouldn't work for a company like Abercrombie, it works for a company like Dove.

And if they didn't use so many fucking fragrances in their products, maybe I'd buy them more often! (But they do, so they make me break out.)

well, yes and no.
men do harp themselves over body parts. aside from King Lex, what man wouldnt want another 2-3 or :glurps: 4 inches of rod? some men joke in jest about the short short man with their friends. i know i do. but if my boy constantly complained about his 2 inch terror, i wouldnt stop being friends with him, unless it became epic.

But I really think that it's one thing to joke with your guy friends about having a small dick, but it's quite another to insist that you're worthless because of it. I am sure that there's at least one guy out there who's told HIMSELF that he's worthless because he thinks his dick's too short, but I doubt he'd say that to his buddies, although he'd joke about it being small.

I had a friend in high school who'd only talk about how fat her thighs were. (They weren't so bad, truthfully, but they stood out because she was small on top, but had hips & a butt ... and didn't dress in a way that would make the lower half of her body look more proportionate.) Every single day, I'd have to hear about how horribly and terribly fat she was and how miserable it made her. That was tedious, annoying and daily. My patience started to wear a little thin and then a lot thin ... and eventually, we drifted apart due to other issues. (Mostly hers.)

I have another friend, who I've known since grammar school, who used to harp on herself like this all the time. But when our other friends and I used to tell her differently, she actually stopped to consider that maybe, just maybe, we were telling the truth. She does a lot better with body image issues now, except when people in her family give her gift certificates to clothing stores like Mandee, but they're not doing that at the moment. (She's expecting; due in March. And she's gorgeous, IMO.)

[Dirtbag]

You can walk onto any random college campus and see a ton better looking females. I'd even go so far as to say your local Wal-Mart.
Trust me, no. I work at Walmart and the one good thing about it is even as hideous as I am, everywhere I look I can see a good half dozen people uglier and fatter than I will ever be.

[~Katja~]

As a photographer that video doesn't shock me in the least. I've been known to do photoshop favors for family members in the christmas photo album.



haha, I had to do that to my mom's portraits last summer...

[ecobag2]

As a photographer that video doesn't shock me in the least. I've been known to do photoshop favors for family members in the christmas photo album.

Marketers are doing what they are supposed to do: make their products as attractive as possible so you'll buy them. It's all artifice.

And it's not just beauty. What about the truck commercials with the disclaimers that those neat little tricks are being done on a closed course with professional drivers? Do you know how much effort it takes to make a burger and fries look great and tasty for a picture? When they try to sell you a sofa, they don't shoot it in a house that looks anything like yours. It's much nicer. Nothing nothing nothing nothing in print or on television is what it says it is.

If there's any problem it's that most of this country is stupid and doesn't understand what I just said. (present company excluded, of course)

It's an interesting campaign that Dove is running, but understand that it's still all just marketing, and they're literally selling soap. It's counter programming. They can't compete trying to tell you that Dove is going to make you beautiful, so they're telling you that you're already beautiful, and since we said that will you buy our soap?

I just don't buy this notion that advertising and the media is to blame for anorexia and bulimia. I would say that both of those conditions are a lot more complicated than "girls can't compete with the skinny girls on magazine covers".



Fair enough that those things are complex ... my issue is more with the other thing you mentioned. That our perception of reality is skewed.

One of the things I've kept casual track of is how life resembles the Matrix and how it doesn't. But you're literally making a giant image of an ideal that will never exist. And it's done all the time. A photographed meal is not even the product but stuff that looks like the product (clay, paint, colored chemical compound... whatever) b/c it looks better and can with stand a 4 hour shoot and hot lights or whatever.

We're constantly being sold a picture of the world that doesn't exist... in movies too. I recently read a Yahoo article that mentioned how romantic comedys ruin relationships. I'm finding notions in peoples' heads all the time about relationships and how they're supposed to work that come straight out of Hollywood and have for 30 years now... to the point where that's become expected reality. It's frigging insane.

But I'd argue that the skewing of a human image is borderline diabolical. You see something like that all the time you're going to expect it as the ideal (as a man)... women will subliminally need to look like that... and you have girls starving and butchering their bodies to fit an image. I'm going to be fair and mention the opposite extrememe - where an unhealthy obesity and whatever else is lauded as a means to personal power... equally insane.


But the whole thing begins mentally and I say it gets worse before better.

[topless_mike]

oing that at the moment. (She's expecting; due in March. And she's gorgeous, IMO.)

useless without pics.

you rule, by the way.

[keithy_19]

I thought this was Dove chocolate. I thought it ironic.

[Thebazile78]

useless without pics.

you rule, by the way.

Thanks. I really wish I could post pics, but I'd like to have her permission rather than posting them randomly ... she's about 7 and a half months at this point and her latest (password protected) blog posting had a photo where she looks simply adorable. I've been practicing a little self-restraint instead of flooding her with baby stuff ... which reminds me that I should probably poke around at Babies R Us to see if she's set up a registry yet.

[Tenbatsuzen]

useless without pics.

you rule, by the way.

Take my word for it. Thumbs up. Liz and I both have a lot of hot friends.

[Ritalin]

Take my word for it. Thumbs up. Liz and I both have a lot of hot friends.

Oh, you nasty pregnant chick fetish motherfucker.

[jonyrotn]

That neck lengthening shit bugged me the fuck out..What female wants to look like E.T.?

In the final analysis it seems, beauty is attainable..
As long as you have a crew of 20 working around the clock, thousands of dollars worth of makeup and the latest photoshop program you can capture a few fleeting moments of beauty..

Btw Liz..
If you're not sure wether or not men wrestle with their body image openly, just walk into any gym in the country and you'll see hundreds of men trying as hard as they can to change how their bodies look..
I wish I could strenthen my height muscle a little bit..:wink:

[ecobag2]

That neck lengthening shit bugged me the fuck out..What female wants to look like E.T.?

In the final analysis it seems, beauty is attainable..
As long as you have a crew of 20 working around the clock, thousands of dollars worth of makeup and the latest photoshop program you can capture a few fleeting moments of beauty..

Btw Liz..
If you're not sure wether or not men wrestle with their body image openly, just walk into any gym in the country and you'll see hundreds of men trying as hard as they can to change how their bodies look..
I wish I could strenthen my height muscle a little bit..:wink:

Men actually get calf implants and chest implants to look like they're buff. Shit you not.

[Gvac]

I'm not being catty, but I don't think many of the celebrities who we are told are supposedly "hot" are anything more than average looking people.

You can walk onto any random college campus and see a ton better looking females. I'd even go so far as to say your local Wal-Mart.

Bingo.

I've been saying this for years.

It's the Emperor's New Clothes syndrome.

Tell people someone (or something) is "hot" and they'll lap it up, whether it's a celebrity or a clothing line.

Bunch of sheep.

The one main example I always think of is Jennifer Aniston. About as ordinary as it gets. In fact, I think I personally know about 20 women who are better looking than her. Have Hollywood tell everyone she's gorgeous, though, and she graces the covers of thousands of magazines.

And all the fashions that we laugh at from decades ago were considered 'must have' at the time. It's only after years pass that people realize how ridiculous they looked.

I'll never understand it.

[Coach]

"Beauty is truth. Truth is beauty."