Do we still need "Black History Month"

[MichiganJim]

I have been giving this one some thought with the election of our new President.

Will there come a time when Black History Month is outdated. Personally I see it as a divisive idea. There was certainly a time when Black history was overlooked. When I was a kid you really did not see the history and contributions of Blacks taught in schools. Oh sure we learned about the peanut guy and also MLK, but other contributions were overlooked or ignored.

Howver, I gotta believe that the kids today get a fairly well balanced portrayalof history including the contributions and struggles of Blacks.

If not now will there EVER be a day when we can abandon having a month that focuses on the contributions of a group of Americans based upon thei color

[biozombie]

Black History Month was the trade-off for taking away the "Blacks Only" water fountains, rest rooms & schools. You gotta give to get, and now any of us can drink at any water fountain we want.

[Kublakhan61]

I blame the whites...

[GreatAmericanZero]

why care if there is a black history month? its not like i do anything different. i'm an adult

[brettmojo]

When the fuck is it Native American History month?

You fuckers took our land, give us something!

And I want July or August, let the blacks have a cold month.

[weekapaugjz]

You fuckers took our land, give us something!

you have the casinos

[biozombie]

When the fuck is it Native American History month?

You fuckers took our land, give us something!

And I want July or August, let the blacks have a cold month.

You got November...sooory, sooory.

http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/heritage_month/aihm/index.html

[cougarjake13]

im still shocked as how no black leaders, or blacks in general ever complain that black history month was put in february


the shortest month of the year

[ToiletCrusher]

short answer, NO!

Morally responsible answer, YES!

I ain't gonna have no mo fo be tells me dat i doesn't gots no kultra!

I ceebrates dis munth be eatsing a tun ov da illest fried chicken and some wata-melon.

[Marc with a c]

it irks me when people use quotes for no reason.

[instrument]

we didn't land on black history month, just throw em a basketball!

[GreatAmericanZero]

it irks me when people use quotes for no reason.

u must hate my "guts"

haha

[west milly Tom]

If like to offer this, a WMT history month. I swear itd be more interesting than black history month. I get it George Washington Carver loved him some peanuts.

[K.C.]

why care if there is a black history month? its not like i do anything different. i'm an adult

On the other hand:

http://www.geocities.com/myfilmspotprofile/AnthonyCumia.jpg

[hexy68]

I have been giving this one some thought with the election of our new President.

Will there come a time when Black History Month is outdated.

OH NO YOU DIDN"T!!!! :nono:

[kdubya]

Howver, I gotta believe that the kids today get a fairly well balanced portrayalof history including the contributions and struggles of Blacks.


By that logic why celebrate Christmas when you can think about Jesus any day of the year, why have shark week when you can watch shark attack videos when ever you want.

[boosterp]

If blacks have a history month then since I am 3rd generation German I want a German-American History Month. I am sick of feeling left out because of discrimination.

[weekapaugjz]

If blacks have a history month then since I am 3rd generation German I want a German-American History Month. I am sick of feeling left out because of discrimination.

this is the worst argument about not having black history month i have ever heard.

[ToiletCrusher]

this is the worst argument about not having black history month i have ever heard.


wait for it...

[TheMojoPin]

I have been giving this one some thought with the election of our new President.

Will there come a time when Black History Month is outdated. Personally I see it as a divisive idea. There was certainly a time when Black history was overlooked. When I was a kid you really did not see the history and contributions of Blacks taught in schools. Oh sure we learned about the peanut guy and also MLK, but other contributions were overlooked or ignored.

Howver, I gotta believe that the kids today get a fairly well balanced portrayalof history including the contributions and struggles of Blacks.

If not now will there EVER be a day when we can abandon having a month that focuses on the contributions of a group of Americans based upon thei color

This whole post seems to revolve aorund the idea that Black History Life somehow effects your life in any way possible.

[west milly Tom]

This whole post seems to revolve aorund the idea that Black History Life somehow effects your life in any way possible.



I work in Newark.

[TheMojoPin]

Howver, I gotta believe that the kids today get a fairly well balanced portrayalof history including the contributions and struggles of Blacks.

And no, they don't. The standards of taught history in this country are appalling for "white history," much less anything else.

[TheMojoPin]

I work in Newark.

Yes, I'm sure everything changes in February.

[Dude!]

If blacks have a history month then since I am 3rd generation German I want a German-American History Month. I am sick of feeling left out because of discrimination.


german history don't need a whole month
just one sentence

they killed 6 million jews

there, now you germans got your recognition

[weekapaugjz]

german history don't need a whole month
just one sentence

they killed 6 million jews

there, now you germans got your recognition

yeah, all those german-americans helping out in the concentration camps...

[~Katja~]

german history don't need a whole month
just one sentence

they killed 6 million jews

there, now you germans got your recognition

what about the good Germans like Stauffenberg???
The Nazi's killed the jews, not the Germans as a nation.

[ToiletCrusher]

yeah, all those german-americans helping out in the concentration camps...

What I chose to do during my summers off in the 40s was my choice!

[smiler grogan]

How about a Joseph Beuys appreciation month he's a german we can all get behind

[IMSlacker]

Without Earl on the show, Black History Month isn't going to be any fun at all this year. I say scrap it.

[biozombie]

How about a Joseph Beuys appreciation month he's a german we can all get behind

Did he sing "Balls To The Wall"?

When do we get Udo Dirkschneider history month?

[Contra]

I'm surprised that with all the PCness of things that it hasn't been changed to African.American history month. Where's the outrage?

[boosterp]

german history don't need a whole month
just one sentence

they killed 6 million jews

there, now you germans got your recognition

You are a fucking idiot. My relatives on both sides of my family left Germany before WWI. My granpa on my surname side was the youngest of 3 children and the first to be born here. On the other side, one is 5th generation mixed with a bit of Scottish and the other is also 5th generation. All this is well before the Nazis went after the Jews. Both my grandfathers fought in WWII in the US Navy. Therefore go fuck yourself and learn some history.

[Dude!]

You are a fucking idiot. My relatives on both sides of my family left Germany before WWI. My granpa on my surname side was the youngest of 3 children and the first to be born here. On the other side, one is 5th generation mixed with a bit of Scottish and the other is also 5th generation. All this is well before the Nazis went after the Jews. Both my grandfathers fought in WWII in the US Navy. Therefore go fuck yourself and learn some history.

what else you got

well duh, your granpa on your suname side and your 5th generation mixed with scottish and the other also 5th generation are what are called AMERICANS and not germans.

[britneypablo]

We didnt need it in the first place....its not white months the rest of the year contrary to popular belief

[TheMojoPin]

We didnt need it in the first place....its not white months the rest of the year contrary to popular belief

I'm not surprised you slept through all of your history classes.

[BlackSpider]

Can't we just agree to call it BlackSpider month...?

[britneypablo]

I'm not surprised you slept through all of your history classes.

whats funny is my degree is in History and i have been too busy teaching them to sleep through them considering i have taught world, civics and economics, and us history....

[TheMojoPin]

whats funny is my degree is in History and i have been too busy teaching them to sleep through them considering i have taught world, civics and economics, and us history....

And you honestly think the history taught in this country through high school hasn't been overwhelmingly Eurocentric? Hell, even that is of horrendous quality.

[britneypablo]

And you honestly think the history taught in this country through high school hasn't been overwhelmingly Eurocentric? And hell, even that is of horrendous quality.

oh is bad i admit , but i dont agree to giving a month to celebrate black history to glorify it as something larger than it is....

as a teacher i have always done my best to pull in loads of information, especially since i have a lot of background in civil rights movement and African history (not that they are even related but i always tie them into my lessons when i can)...now the problem with most people is you all want to give credit to people to try to end the separation but all it does it make more separation...so we create this month to try to give back and rectify ourselves for the separate but equal bullshit and now we are just doing it in the reverse way...we are a bunch of dummies

[CofyCrakCocaine]

I'd have to disagree with the Germany-defenders after having read numerous books about Germany's culture and history. Anti-semitism was pretty widespread throughout Germany at the time (and had been for oh, millennia along with the rest of Europe) and still was years after Hitler ate a bullet. The Nazis were elected into power in a full, free democratic election, a party whose platform very clearly defined Adolf's feelings on the Jews. Mein Kampf is one of the most clear-cut and obvious political reads in history. I think the thing that caught the average German off guard was not that Nazis were going to kill Jews, but that the Nazis would actually kill so many Jews. But I do not distinguish between the moral acception of one murder versus 6 million.

The man who executed the Final Solution was originally a German chicken farmer. I just don't see why Germans have to pretend that the Nazis were not Germans but some strange transdimensional beings who passed into the 30's and 40's through a semi-permeable reality membrane. Does this mean all Germans were culpable in the Holocaust? No. Does this mean they as a nation bore no responsibility for it? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CofyCrakCocaine]

And you honestly think the history taught in this country through high school hasn't been overwhelmingly Eurocentric? Hell, even that is of horrendous quality.

You mean Ameri-centric. I tried really really hard to find European history classes in my schools, and they were always hard sells.

Though it will be said that you're not going to find Middle East/Egyptian/Indian/Chinese/Korean history courses any easier.

[weekapaugjz]

You mean Ameri-centric. I tried really really hard to find European history classes in my schools, and they were always hard sells.

Though it will be said that you're not going to find Middle East/Egyptian/Indian/Chinese/Korean history courses any easier.

new york has a two year course required by all freshmen and sophmores to pass to graduate that encompasses all of those cultures. is it a perfect curriculum? far from it. but at least students are exposed to those different cultures.

[TheMojoPin]

oh is bad i admit , but i dont agree to giving a month to celebrate black history to glorify it as something larger than it is....

as a teacher i have always done my best to pull in loads of information, especially since i have a lot of background in civil rights movement and African history (not that they are even related but i always tie them into my lessons when i can)...now the problem with most people is you all want to give credit to people to try to end the separation but all it does it make more separation...so we create this month to try to give back and rectify ourselves for the separate but equal bullshit and now we are just doing it in the reverse way...we are a bunch of dummies

How does a month suggesting EVERYBODY learn more about forgotten events and people in our shared history encourage seperation? And how is black history "being glorified as something larger than it is?" The origin of the month and the continued aproach to it is, "these are parts of our history that have often been overlooked or ignored or forgotten over the last 500 years." That's a ton of history that we all could learn more about and the surface has barely been scratched. Besides, it's not like Black History Month requires anyone to do anything...people can totally ignore it if they want. It's just a reminder, and we need MORE historical reminders in this country. We're too willing and too eager to forget or just focus on the legends and the mistruths in all histories. That was really diven home to me during my visit to Germany and seeing how much of that country's history they're determined to not let people forget.

[Slumbag]

Black History Month is fucking cool, man.
There's always lots of good music on the radio, better movies get shown.
I love it.

[GregoryJoseph]

...now the problem with most people is you all want to give credit to people to try to end the separation but all it does it make more separation...so we create this month to try to give back and rectify ourselves for the separate but equal bullshit and now we are just doing it in the reverse way...we are a bunch of dummies

So perfectly true.

Continuing to separate people, no matter how "noble" the cause, does nothing but further the feelings of resentment.

[TheMojoPin]

You mean Ameri-centric.

No, I mean Eurocentric, as in focusing on scattered bits of history focused on the European settlers of America and their descendents.

[TheMojoPin]

So perfectly true.

Continuing to separate people, no matter how "noble" the cause, does nothing but further the feelings of resentment.

How is it a "seperation?" It's not like American black history exists independently or can be seperated from "white history." It's a suggestion for EVERYONE to maybe look into purposely forgotten/ignored aspects of our history if they're so inclined. Black History Month exists as something that helps save huge parts of our history that are in danger of being lost forever. It's incredibly disheartening to see people totally ignore the basic idea of the month, which is to learn and appreciate American history, and jump right to the meaningless fights over semantics.

No wonder why American history is in shambles. I wish every month was made some kind of different history month (though most of them are at this point)...not that it'll encourage enough people in this country to actually learn or care about American history, but hey, it would at least be an effort.

Why do so many Americans hate history?

[Doctor Z]

I don't see why not. The other 11 months of the year are White History Month.

Is the shortest month of the year so much to ask for?

[CofyCrakCocaine]

No, I mean Eurocentric, as in focusing on scattered bits of history focused on the European settlers of America and their descendents.

Those guys weren't Europeans. They were immigrants.. or colonial Americans!

Euro-centric history is shit like the Defenestration of Prague... if we had history courses focused solely on the white history of Australia, would we be calling that Eurocentric as well?

[RoseBlood]

So perfectly true.

Continuing to separate people, no matter how "noble" the cause, does nothing but further the feelings of resentment.
Perhaps, but one might want to look inside themselves to see where the true resentment stems from. Having that one month does not in itself separate people, it's the people's own previously harbored resentments that do, black history month just gives one an excuse to hate.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

How is it a "seperation?" It's not like American black history exists independently or can be seperated from "white history." It's a suggestion for EVERYONE to maybe look into purposely forgotten/ignored aspects of our history if they're so inclined. Black History Month exists as something that helps save huge parts of our history that are in danger of being lost forever. It's incredibly disheartening to see people totally ignore the basic idea of the month, which is to learn and appreciate American history, and jump right to the meaningless fights over semantics.

No wonder why American history is in shambles. I wish every month was made some kind of different history month...not that it'll encourage enough people in this country to actually learn or care about American history, but hey, it would at least be an effort.

Why do so many Americans hate history?

I had a friend once lecture me on why I was trying to major in history. "It's just living in the past you know... living in the past isn't good for you." Surprisingly, he has "We're proud of President Bush" stickers all over his mom's car and the light post next to his house.

[TheMojoPin]

Euro-centric history is shit like the Defenestration of Prague... if we had history courses focused solely on the white history of Australia, would we be calling that Eurocentric as well?

In that context? Yes. What else would you call it? I can't think of another term to differentiate between the racially-defined seperations in American history over the centuries, and I've typically heard or read "Eurocentric" being used in that context.

[meanmrbill]

If blacks have a history month then since I am 3rd generation German I want a German-American History Month. I am sick of feeling left out because of discrimination.
German-American heritage month is September 15-October 15

[TheMojoPin]

I had a friend once lecture me on why I was trying to major in history. "It's just living in the past you know... living in the past isn't good for you." Surprisingly, he has "We're proud of President Bush" stickers all over his mom's car and the light post next to his house.

I do blame a lot of it on the teachers of history. I understand it's often an uphill battle, but far too many don't want to be doing it in the first place and put little effort into it besides having their students just plow through old and/or poorly written and researched textbooks (which often aren't written by career historians or even authors with history degrees) and having them mmorize names and dates. It all just reinforces the idea that history is something only in the past that they're totally sperate from and don't need to care about.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

So perfectly true.

Continuing to separate people, no matter how "noble" the cause, does nothing but further the feelings of resentment.

Perhaps, but one might want to look inside themselves to see where the true resentment stems from. Having that one month does not in itself separate people, it's the people's own previously harbored resentments that do, black history month just gives one an excuse to hate.

First off... if anyone is honestly seperated in any significant way by Black History Month, please go to Israel and kill Hamas or something. You're not needed here.

Secondly... why is it that whenever someone has something that celebrates themselves or a group they belong to, every other group has to get all pissed off that someone other than themselves are having a party? The entire human fucking race is a bunch of children in this regard... it's never enough to just be on this planet for anybody. In this country you have to have a McMansion, a wedding like what you see on a Zales commercial, or the car the neighbor you're envious of drives. Forgotten is family and more importantly, THE PEOPLE. But if you go into any community driven country such as Barbados, you still see this shit going on... yes, some of the social classes are due to the British influence, but they existed before and after England left the island. If you don't know what I mean, try befriending some Rastas on the beach then tell someone who owns a nicer house there about it. They'll be pissed off at you. To them, big fucking deal, makes sense, traditional, blah blah blah. To me? Seems pretty fucking stupid. Dunno, maybe I just don't "get it" (arbritary use of quotes for Marc)

[meanmrbill]

You are a fucking idiot. My relatives on both sides of my family left Germany before WWI. My granpa on my surname side was the youngest of 3 children and the first to be born here. On the other side, one is 5th generation mixed with a bit of Scottish and the other is also 5th generation. All this is well before the Nazis went after the Jews. Both my grandfathers fought in WWII in the US Navy. Therefore go fuck yourself and learn some history.
Why do people, as adults, insist on referring to their grandparents by the names they gave them when they were children? I never understood that.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

I do blame a lot of it on the teachers of history. I understand it's often an uphill battle, but far too many don't want to be doing it in the first place and put little effort into it besides having their students just plow through old and/or poorly written and researched textbooks (which often aren't written by career historians or even authors with history degrees) and having them mmorize names and dates. It all just reinforces the idea that history is something only in the past that they're totally sperate from and don't need to care about.

Interesting point. There was some visiting history professor at my college who told me to avoid teaching history because it wasn't worthwhile.

I think part of the problem is that the history teachers you talk about are usually thrust into the job of teaching history when they aren't too thrilled by the subject to begin with. Americans in general have an airy disinterest with history, ESPECIALLY WOMEN... nothing dries pussy faster than a trip through time. I remember walking through a trail in Gettysburg where Pickett's Charge took place. Beautiful, rustic, almost like walking into a time-warp... I started to imagine what it must have been like that day in 1863, only to then have my then-girlfriend ask me "What sides fought here? Who won? The Redcoats?"

[RoseBlood]

First off... if anyone is honestly seperated in any significant way by Black History Month, please go to Israel and kill Hamas or something. You're not needed here.

Secondly... why is it that whenever someone has something that celebrates themselves or a group they belong to, every other group has to get all pissed off that someone other than themselves are having a party? The entire human fucking race is a bunch of children in this regard... it's never enough to just be on this planet for anybody. In this country you have to have a McMansion, a wedding like what you see on a Zales commercial, or the car the neighbor you're envious of drives. Forgotten is family and more importantly, THE PEOPLE. But if you go into any community driven country such as Barbados, you still see this shit going on... yes, some of the social classes are due to the British influence, but they existed before and after England left the island. If you don't know what I mean, try befriending some Rastas on the beach then tell someone who owns a nicer house there about it. They'll be pissed off at you. To them, big fucking deal, makes sense, traditional, blah blah blah. To me? Seems pretty fucking stupid. Dunno, maybe I just don't "get it" (arbritary use of quotes for Marc)

Hello??? exactly my point! Why ruin a celebration because you can't deal with it? It fuels your resentments?
P.S. i'm back on aim.. where are you?

[kdubya]

. why is it that whenever someone has something that celebrates themselves or a group they belong to, every other group has to get all pissed off that someone other than themselves are having a party?

Great point.

Black folks in this country worked to push the idea of Black History Month to celebrate their achievements. Good for them. If other cultures and groups want to do the same thing, I don't see anyone stopping them.

The Anthony Cumias of the world scream "where is white history month" while at the same time getting pissed at people that want sports for kids to be all inclusive where everyone gets a trophy, without seeing the irony of the two arguments

[TheMojoPin]

Interesting point. There was some visiting history professor at my college who told me to avoid teaching history because it wasn't worthwhile.

I think part of the problem is that the history teachers you talk about are usually thrust into the job of teaching history when they aren't too thrilled by the subject to begin with. Americans in general have an airy disinterest with history, ESPECIALLY WOMEN... nothing dries pussy faster than a trip through time. I remember walking through a trail in Gettysburg where Pickett's Charge took place. Beautiful, rustic, almost like walking into a time-warp... I started to imagine what it must have been like that day in 1863, only to then have my then-girlfriend ask me "What sides fought here? Who won? The Redcoats?"

It's definitely an uphill battle...history typically ranks dead last when students are polled as to what their least favorite subjects are, and I wouldn't be surprised if most teachers would prefer to not have to teach it to.

The thing that always baffles me is that people want to teach history as "safely" as possible, which makes it boring and turns the students off. When I've worked in classrooms where the teachers are willing to actually delve into the reality of American history it ends up being like night and day with the students. History needs to be taught as something that is constantly alive and evolving and SHOULD be questioned and debated as opposed to just lectured as something unchanging and static. Let students challenge or question a subject and it brings so many more of them into it.

[joethebartender]

How will we ever know about the inventor of peanut butter?

[RoseBlood]

How will we ever know about the inventor of peanut butter?
Since when is peanut butter an invention? :huh:
Man was bound to figure it out eventually.

This changes everything.. Black History Month is a sham. :innocent:

[hammersavage]

"Earl your peoples biggest invention is peanut butter, now it's killing little white kids........I have to ask my kids, you want a African poison and jelly sandwich?"- Ronnie B.

[kdubya]

"Earl your peoples biggest invention is peanut butter, now it's killing little white kids........I have to ask my kids, you want a African poison and jelly sandwich?"- Ronnie B.

God damn that was a great line

[jonyrotn]

How will we ever know about the inventor of peanut butter?
Talk about gettin shafted, the guy who invented jelly doesn't appear in a single history book..Poor fuck..
Meanwhile, G.W. Carver is worshipped like he's the Michael Jordan of the sandwich spread community, livin it up in every single grade school lesson plan in the nation..
Go figure..:unsure:

Maybe Dave was right..
Jelly does get fucked..

[PapaBear]

Maybe Dave was right..
Jelly does get fucked..
:lol:

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Hello??? exactly my point! Why ruin a celebration because you can't deal with it? It fuels your resentments?
P.S. i'm back on aim.. where are you?

Crap! I was smelling SO bad and couldn't take it anymore and decided to shower. Come back!!!!!!! :glurps:

[CofyCrakCocaine]

It's definitely an uphill battle...history typically ranks dead last when students are polled as to what their least favorite subjects are, and I wouldn't be surprised if most teachers would prefer to not have to teach it to.

The thing that always baffles me is that people want to teach history as "safely" as possible, which makes it boring and turns the students off. When I've worked in classrooms where the teachers are willing to actually delve into the reality of American history it ends up being like night and day with the students. History needs to be taught as something that is constantly alive and evolving and SHOULD be questioned and debated as opposed to just lectured as something unchanging and static. Let students challenge or question a subject and it brings so many more of them into it.

My big deal with history is that I consider it the best of all subjects. You got a fine mix of cultural studies, religion, anthropology, political science, technological innovation, economy, and all that shit rolled up into one subject. But because it involves people older than the jizz that made your grandparents, people become insta-Fonzies and need to rebel against the established order maaaaaaaan.

[hammersavage]

The jizz that made my grandparents is OLD

[britneypablo]

"Earl your peoples biggest invention is peanut butter, now it's killing little white kids........I have to ask my kids, you want a African poison and jelly sandwich?"- Ronnie B.

i actually remember that little piece of gold, thank you so much for reminding me of it....


i dont have time to explain separation this morning ...but i will say spend one day in the south during black history month and you will see how every ignorant black soul finds their way out of the ghetto to glorify their ancestors greatness by behaving so distastefully its like they thrust into your asshole their misunderstanding of where they even came from like a giant black dildo....

(p.s. and i say this because i know how u ppl are: to clarify im not sayin all black people are ignorant...im just saying the ones who are love feb. and seem to show themselves in an even louder fashion during this month...of course people of other races are just as ignorant and worthless just not so LOUD about it)


where's woman's history month? im sick of being called a bitch and not being able to use the N.... GEEZ ;)

[Kublakhan61]

History is silly, in general. It's one perspective on an event. In order for history to exist someone has to write it down. Now, unless that scrivener simply writes down a series of events in chronological order WITHOUT any human emotion/opinion/ or slant (and this is how history was recorded once) then the future will be misinformed. HOWEVER, without any indication as to the significance of the recorded events, this is to say the scrivener was successful in the aforementioned task, the future will be left to interpret the meaning of said events blindly, and therefore will naturally color it with their own biases.
This is all to say History is sham. It is much closer to the arts, then we are often willing to admit. History is taught under the academic umbrella aptly named, Humanities - it is not a science, it cannot be proven. The present experience is the only truth. History, much like the future, is for the most part conjecture.

Translation/Cliff Notes:
Black History month isn't hurting anyone, you fucking hayseeds.

[Kublakhan61]

where's woman's history month? im sick of being called a bitch and not being able to use the N.... GEEZ ;)

Sorry to double post but I just saw this and didn't want to soil my thesis there.

Woman's History month is in March. Are you really a teacher?

[underdog]

When the fuck is it Native American History month?

You got November...sooory, sooory.

http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/heritage_month/aihm/index.html

Face.

If blacks have a history month then since I am 3rd generation German I want a German-American History Month. I am sick of feeling left out because of discrimination.

German-American heritage month is September 15-October 15

Face.

where's woman's history month? im sick of being called a bitch and not being able to use the N.... GEEZ ;)

Woman's History month is in March. Are you really a teacher?

Face.

I'm really enjoying people trying to be an ass and just getting shut down.

[TheMojoPin]

i dont have time to explain separation this morning ...but i will say spend one day in the south during black history month and you will see how every ignorant black soul finds their way out of the ghetto to glorify their ancestors greatness by behaving so distastefully its like they thrust into your asshole their misunderstanding of where they even came from like a giant black dildo....

I'm willing to bet large sums of money this absolutely nothing to do with reality.

[TheMojoPin]

History is silly, in general. It's one perspective on an event. In order for history to exist someone has to write it down. Now, unless that scrivener simply writes down a series of events in chronological order WITHOUT any human emotion/opinion/ or slant (and this is how history was recorded once) then the future will be misinformed. HOWEVER, without any indication as to the significance of the recorded events, this is to say the scrivener was successful in the aforementioned task, the future will be left to interpret the meaning of said events blindly, and therefore will naturally color it with their own biases.
This is all to say History is sham. It is much closer to the arts, then we are often willing to admit. History is taught under the academic umbrella aptly named, Humanities - it is not a science, it cannot be proven. The present experience is the only truth. History, much like the future, is for the most part conjecture.

I agree with most of this, except for the idea of calling it a "sham" or "silly." Most serious historians don't treat history as static or somthing tha is ever "set": it is constantly open for new interpretation, discovery and change. They actually treat it like the scientific fields, where nothing is ever truly 100% proven and always remains a theory.

[TjM]

If blacks have a history month then since I am 3rd generation German I want a German-American History Month. I am sick of feeling left out because of discrimination.

I assume you would prefer we leave out late 30's-late 40's?

[KingGeno]

Start White History month, and you'll see an outcry.

[TjM]

http://www.truveo.com/Family-Guy-German-Tour/id/683929344

[underdog]

Start White History month, and you'll see an outcry.

Thank you for this original and insightful point. It's nice to know that you read through the thread before posting this witty comment.

[KingGeno]

Thank you for this original and insightful point. It's nice to know that you read through the thread before posting this witty comment.

Your welcome, sunshine. :)

[yojimbo7248]

My big deal with history is that I consider it the best of all subjects. You got a fine mix of cultural studies, religion, anthropology, political science, technological innovation, economy, and all that shit rolled up into one subject. But because it involves people older than the jizz that made your grandparents, people become insta-Fonzies and need to rebel against the established order maaaaaaaan.

damn, CCC, I like your thinking and I couldn't agree more. Same with you Mojo.
I was a history major and have to keep myself from proselytizing because I love the subject so much. I ran off to live in China for a few years after graduating and found I understood next to nothing without having a better grasp of their history. I came back to the states and studied more Chinese history and still barely understand the place. All of that history, though, has paid off in unexpected ways. Black history for example. In the grand scheme of things, slavery happened yesterday. 200 years is such an insignificant length of time historically. I don't think I would have fully understood this before. Americans are particularly weak at understanding cause and effect over periods of time.
For people who get upset for whatever reason about Black history month, go talk to a black person about his or her story. I have a black sister in law whose grandmother remembers relatives who were slaves. I remember how amazed I was when I first heard that. Black history month is great for encouraging these stories to get out more. More history the better.

[Kublakhan61]

I agree with most of this, except for the idea of calling it a "sham" or "silly." Most serious historians don't treat history as static or somthing tha is ever "set": it is constantly open for new interpretation, discovery and change. They actually treat it like the scientific fields, where nothing is ever truly 100% proven and always remains a theory.

Sham or silly ... you're right I was really approaching it from a "no-one here is a serious historian" position and was really speaking to a more general idea of history, the one I imagine is commonly held here. As long as you're saying history is never 100% true, then I think we're on the same page. Also, if you're interested in looking further into that theory I laid out before - look for Hayden White's The Content of the Form: Narrative Discourse and Historical Representation. Excellent book.

[yojimbo7248]

Sham or silly ... you're right I was really approaching it from a "no-one here is a serious historian" position and was really speaking to a more general idea of history, the one I imagine is commonly held here. As long as you're saying history is never 100% true, then I think we're on the same page. Also, if you're interested in looking further into that theory I laid out before - look for Hayden White's The Content of the Form: Narrative Discourse and Historical Representation. Excellent book.

sounds interesting, I'm going to order the White book.

[angrymissy]

If blacks have a history month then since I am 3rd generation German I want a German-American History Month. I am sick of feeling left out because of discrimination.

http://german.about.com/od/teaching/a/geramday.htm

October

[angrymissy]

I can tell you, that in my NYC suburban HS, when they tried to teach us about different cultures and religions in Global Studies, the school got sued. And some wackjob religious group bussed in people from all over the country to attend meetings and protest it. People got pissed and complained to the school when they showed us Roots during free period.
Our country has not yet progressed to the point where people do not care about race, or where black history is freely taught in schools. That was less than 10 years ago, in a major metropolitan area... who gives a crap if there is a month to celebrate black history?

[RoseBlood]

...and yojimbo i like YOUR thinking and couldn't agree more. Why let the distasteful actions of some morons (regardless of their race) distract and deter from what I feel is something that should be celebrated.

I don't think I would have fully understood this before. Americans are particularly weak at understanding cause and effect over periods of time.
For people who get upset for whatever reason about Black history month, go talk to a black person about his or her story.

Call me a bleeding heart liberal, but I most definitely agree with this statement. I like to think of it as compassion and understanding. This doesn't mean I believe in hand outs "just because". I am a firm believer that you acknowledge the wrong doings of the past but, it's up to each individual and society to make our own future.

I come from a family of mostly conservatives and it's always fun to disagree with them.

[~Katja~]

I'd have to disagree with the Germany-defenders after having read numerous books about Germany's culture and history. Anti-semitism was pretty widespread throughout Germany at the time (and had been for oh, millennia along with the rest of Europe) and still was years after Hitler ate a bullet. The Nazis were elected into power in a full, free democratic election, a party whose platform very clearly defined Adolf's feelings on the Jews. Mein Kampf is one of the most clear-cut and obvious political reads in history. I think the thing that caught the average German off guard was not that Nazis were going to kill Jews, but that the Nazis would actually kill so many Jews. But I do not distinguish between the moral acception of one murder versus 6 million.

exactly, HIS feelings on the Jews and not an entire nation


The man who executed the Final Solution was originally a German chicken farmer. I just don't see why Germans have to pretend that the Nazis were not Germans but some strange transdimensional beings who passed into the 30's and 40's through a semi-permeable reality membrane. Does this mean all Germans were culpable in the Holocaust? No. Does this mean they as a nation bore no responsibility for it? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then call them German Nazis and not Germans. Don't generalize.
My grandparents were in that war but did not identify with the Nazi Ideology...They did not even know what was happening... think about how news and information was distributed during these times and how easy it was to keep things from the public.

My father was part of the Stasi during East German times and he did not join them because he absolutely wanted to, but because if once you were chosen for a position and you turned it down you were made enemy of the state, often imprisoned or monitored at every possible moment of your day. He as a family man had to decide whether he would go along with the politics imposed on him for his families sake or to rebel against it and put the entire family at risk.
Same goes for the Nazis and the nazi movement during that time. Many did not identify with Hitlers ideology at all but in the best interest of their families had to go along with it.
It does not mean they hated jews or tried to kill them, they were hoping to not have to fight in the war the same way many soldiers here hope to never be deployed. While they stand for defending and fighting for their country and the honor of their country they still don't identify with the war and the reasons it is being fought anymore.

And for the most part Germans have acknowledged the wrongs done by a selected group of people during WWII. We are being taught about it in schools, there are memorials all over Germany and kids are being bussed to the concentration camps and go to Israel to see the cruelty and inhumanity and murders executed during the war. Stop blaming an entire nation, stop blaming their descendants, we feel just as hateful towards these people and the things that happened.

[Kublakhan61]

sounds interesting, I'm going to order the White book.

You're the best, Yojimbo!

[meanmrbill]

Your welcome, sunshine. :)
I believe National Grammar Day is March 4th.

[TheMojoPin]

My father was part of the Stasi during East German times and he did not join them because he absolutely wanted to, but because if once you were chosen for a position and you turned it down you were made enemy of the state, often imprisoned or monitored at every possible moment of your day. He as a family man had to decide whether he would go along with the politics imposed on him for his families sake or to rebel against it and put the entire family at risk.

Very true. As I'm sure you know yourself, it was more unusual for someone in East Germany and especially East Berlin to NOT have worked for or with the Stasi in some capacity.

Katja, have you seen Das Leben der Anderen?

It's ironic how some people in this thread, both seriously and in jest, keep bringing up the Germans when it comes to ignoring or "forgetting" history, yet they actually should probably be the model for how a nation recognizes and remembers its painful past.

[Standard Delivery]

Do we <I>still</I> need "Black History Month"...?

[TheMojoPin]

Do we <I>still</I> need "Black History Month"...?

Fail.

[~Katja~]

Very true. As I'm sure you know yourself, it was more unusual for someone in East Germany and especially East Berlin to NOT have worked for or with the Stasi in some capacity.

Katja, have you seen Das Leben der Anderen?

It's ironic how some people in this thread, both seriously and in jest, keep bringing up the Germans when it comes to ignoring or "forgetting" history, yet they actually should probably be the model for how a nation recognizes and remembers its painful past.

it's still on my wishlist.
I wanted to see it in the city when it came out here but my then date canceled on me due to weather and stuff...

[TheMojoPin]

it's still on my wishlist.
I wanted to see it in the city when it came out here but my then date canceled on me due to weather and stuff...

Oh man, watch it whenever you get a chance. Absolutely amazing film about life in and under the Stasi.

[Standard Delivery]

Fail.

Expound upon that.

[jonyrotn]

Interesting point. There was some visiting history professor at my college who told me to avoid teaching history because it wasn't worthwhile.

I think part of the problem is that the history teachers you talk about are usually thrust into the job of teaching history when they aren't too thrilled by the subject to begin with. Americans in general have an airy disinterest with history, ESPECIALLY WOMEN... nothing dries pussy faster than a trip through time. I remember walking through a trail in Gettysburg where Pickett's Charge took place. Beautiful, rustic, almost like walking into a time-warp... I started to imagine what it must have been like that day in 1863, only to then have my then-girlfriend ask me "What sides fought here? Who won? The Redcoats?"
At least they don't have the balls to call it "American history" anymore, they now call it "the American perspective" because it's mostly made up or extremely biased horse shit..

A huge percentage of what I was taught in grade school about this country has been dropped from the elementary level curriculum because it was just plain false information..

[GreatAmericanZero]

i DO think "cultural diversity" fucks up some classes. There are so many classics i've never read. In school i never had to read anything by Mark Twain, Herman Melville and i have never read "Hamlet". It was never required reading. But i have read so many forgettable books about the black experience, i can't even begin to name them. I know i read the Fredrick douglas book and so many books about apartheid and segregation. I feel like my educational experience missed out on the great literary works because we needed room for the black books

but for an adult to complain about black history month..who cares? it means nothing to me. maybe a 15sec PSA on NBC, but i dont learn shit anymore

[Contra]

GAZ you're killing me! Twain is awsome, and hamlet is my favorite WS play. Read some stuff!

[GreatAmericanZero]

GAZ you're killing me! Twain is awsome, and hamlet is my favorite WS play. Read some stuff!

let me try to remember the curriculum

i think it was

freshman - romeo & juliet
sophomore - julius ceasar
junior - macbeth
senior - othello


yeah, at my school, no "Hamlet" on our yearly WS requirement.

[TheMojoPin]

Expound upon that.

So your thoughts on all the topics brought up in this thread is to just repeat the thread title?

[TheMojoPin]

let me try to remember the curriculum

i think it was

freshman - romeo & juliet
sophomore - julius ceasar
junior - macbeth
senior - othello


yeah, at my school, no "Hamlet" on our yearly WS requirement.

Well, that's not nearly as depressing as not reading any Twain or Melville at all. At least you still got some Shakespeare each year. I'm surprised that out of all your classes you never read any Twain. Not to excuse it, but were you assigned any in middle school? It seems his biggest novels have been moved up to 7th or 8th grade.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Well, that's not nearly as depressing as not reading any Twain or Melville at all. At least you still got some Shakespeare each year. I'm surprised that out of all your classes you never read any Twain. Not to excuse it, but were you assigned any in middle school? It seems his biggest novels have been moved up to 7th or 8th grade.

no. and i really feel like i've missed out because of that. and i can't tell you how many random novels by black authors i've read. i know i read "of mice and men" but no other steinbeck and i read "mary shellys frankenstein" which i absolutely hated. we were just required to read so many black novels...it was ridiculous.

btw, i always excelled at english classes and ended up an english major at the University of Albany. but all these classic american novels i never touched. its a shame.

send your complaints to the Baldwin School Districts. Maybe our proudest graduate, Dee Snyder from Twisted Sister (or IamPixe from rf.net) will stand up for change!

[Contra]

Well at least you got to read julius ceasar.

[TheMojoPin]

no. and i really feel like i've missed out because of that. and i can't tell you how many random novels by black authors i've read. i know i read "of mice and men" but no other steinbeck and i read "mary shellys frankenstein" which i absolutely hated. we were just required to read so many black novels...it was ridiculous.

btw, i always excelled at english classes and ended up an english major at the University of Albany. but all these classic american novels i never touched. its a shame.

send your complaints to the Baldwin School Districts. Maybe our proudest graduate, Dee Snyder from Twisted Sister (or IamPixe from rf.net) will stand up for change!

Well, that sucks. Public schools usually don't delve much past a single title per author, but to drop someone like Twain altogether is just stupid. Seems like too many schools and districts go too far one way after being too far the other way. I mean, it's not like you were totally deprived since there's a ton of great black American authors from the last 150 years, but how hard is it to find a decent mix across the spectrum?

[GreatAmericanZero]

Well, that sucks. Public schools usually don't delve much past a single title per author, but to drop someone like Twain altogether is just stupid. Seems like too many schools and districts go too far one way after being too far the other way. I mean, it's not like you were totally deprived since there's a ton of great black American authors from the last 150 years, but how hard is it to find a decent mix across the spectrum?

i know the Fredrick Douglass autobiography was great and effected me. For the summer reading list i read the Malcolm X autobiography (alot of people just saw the movie, but i read the whole book cuz im interested in that time period) and i loved it. But everything else i can't remember for the life of me. "The Piano Teacher", does that sound familiar? I dunno...but stuff like that. we did a whole half a semester on stuff about south african apartheid. im sorry, its just not that interesting for an american teen in the late 90s

[Kublakhan61]

I dunno...but stuff like that. we did a whole half a semester on stuff about south african apartheid. im sorry, its just not that interesting for an american teen in the late 90s

Oh no - did you have to read any Nadine Gordimer? I can't stomach her work.

[TheMojoPin]

i know the Fredrick Douglass autobiography was great and effected me. For the summer reading list i read the Malcolm X autobiography (alot of people just saw the movie, but i read the whole book cuz im interested in that time period) and i loved it. But everything else i can't remember for the life of me. "The Piano Teacher", does that sound familiar? I dunno...but stuff like that. we did a whole half a semester on stuff about south african apartheid. im sorry, its just not that interesting for an american teen in the late 90s

That last part is a great point...not to dismiss South African apartheid, but the focus for American high school students should be United States history uber alles. That's not to say US history is the beginning and the end, but there really is a ton of it from a ton of perspectives thanks to the pathwork nature of our origins, and so much of it has been neglected over the decades. There should be some attention to international history, but throughout high school it should really be no less than something like 80% US history and 20% international history. Hell, just in terms of "black history," focusing all the time on South African history is just killing time that could be spent on purposely ignored and forgetten American black history and the various other ethnic groups and so forth that didn't fit into the "white supremacy" nature of US history that was fostered for a good 120 years or so.

And if you mean The Piano Lesson, yeah, unless that's for a drama production, it's a waste of time in either a history or a lit class.

[Dude!]

just curious

shouldn't history address all sides of every issue

do schools teach anything about how welfare
contributed to the destruction of the black family?

or what cities like cleveland and st. louis were like
when they were primarily white?

i have no problem teaching how bad white people are
as long as you teach how bad black people are

[ToiletCrusher]

just curious

shouldn't history address all sides of every issue

do schools teach anything about how welfare
contributed to the destruction of the black family?

or what cities like cleveland and st. louis were like
when they were primarily white?

i have no problem teaching how bad white people are
as long as you teach how bad black people are



commie.

[RoseBlood]

just curious

shouldn't history address all sides of every issue

do schools teach anything about how welfare
contributed to the destruction of the black family?

or what cities like cleveland and st. louis were like
when they were primarily white?

i have no problem teaching how bad white people are
as long as you teach how bad black people are
No one said anything about teaching how bad white people are.. as far as teaching how bad black people are, that's what we have the news media for. :dry:

[hammersavage]

Rose stole what I was going to say. If you want to see black people portrayed as evil, watch the news. If you want to see evil white people, read a history book.

[Kublakhan61]

just curious

shouldn't history address all sides of every issue

do schools teach anything about how welfare
contributed to the destruction of the black family?

or what cities like cleveland and st. louis were like
when they were primarily white?


You might address both of these issues by learning about redlining.

Caution: Learning might cause embarrassment.

[grlNIN]

I have a simple way to resolve this feud.

My birthday is in February, so the martyr i am, i will personally take on the responsibility of having the entire month revolve around me.

[TheMojoPin]

i have no problem teaching how bad white people are
as long as you teach how bad black people are

Nobody is talking about teaching "how bad" people are...it's about teaching something closer to the realistic portrayal of history. Bottom line is is that life and reality is typically not a pretty place and poor choices are made and things often don't work out. It's not about "bashing white people"...it's about countering a style of history that championed unrealistic and romanticized white supremacy. It's about countering perceptions like this...

do schools teach anything about how welfare
contributed to the destruction of the black family?

or what cities like cleveland and st. louis were like
when they were primarily white?

...that are inaccurate and childishly simplistic and completely ignore the complexities of history and reality.

shouldn't history address all sides of every issue

You don't seem to wat that at all. You just assume it's some kind of blame game.