What would you do?

[skyscraper]

We all know the economy sucks right now. People are losing their jobs in huge numbers. I myself was laid off last year, and was lucky to find another job within 2 months. I like my job, I like the firm, I even like my boss even though he is a little control-freaky and quirky.
Now my boss has asked me to sign this non-compete/non-disclosure form, which is onerous. It says that if I leave this job, I cannot work for ANY other architect within a 125 mile radius for 3 years. it also has lots of things that do not seem like they are enforceable, that basically bind me to this firm for the rest of my life.
I know that if he tried to enforce anything in this document that it would not stand up, but my concern is that if I refuse to sign it that he will fire me. I do not want to be out looking for another job right now. I have 2 young daughters (ages 8 and 3) and so they are of prime concern obviously. By signing this form, I am saying that I think that it is reasonable and am subject to its restrictions. it does not constitute a contract, in that I am still considered an at-will employee, so there is almost no benefit for me to sign it, except that if I don't I might get fired.
what would you do?

[debit]

Pay the $500 and see an employment lawyer to get his advice.

While it is a lot of money, not getting proper legal advice could really cost you more down the road.


PS If not, I would tell him that it seems a little steep and ask him to modify the terms to something more reasonable.

[KingGeno]

I had to sign something similar back in 2006 with my old company. It basically stated that I couldn't go work for any of their clients or customers. It seems to me like your company is really trying to screw you over big time. I would be honest with them, and bring up your concerns to them. That is a MAJOR agreement, and could really screw you over big time in the long run.....Get a copy of the agreement, and have someone take a look at it and see what options you would have and won't have if you do sign it.

[~Katja~]

don't sign it and he cannot fire you for this reason.
Tell him you will gladly sign something that you won't take clients with you for 3 years if you were to leave but the no work in a certain radius is a common agreement but hardly ever signed.

[ToiletCrusher]

Fuck it dude, let's go bowling.


Are you completely opposed to moving to a new city or a new area. If you don't have a deadline, you can postpone signing the form while you look for other work possibly.

[instrument]

Sign it, but when the camers pans down we'll see your fingers crossed.

This tactic routinely stands up in court.

Honestly this sounds like a losing situation for you either way, don't sign and your control freak boss may look for a reason to be rid of you.

Have you asked around to see if this is routine at your business?

[skyscraper]

don't sign it and he cannot fire you for this reason.
Tell him you will gladly sign something that you won't take clients with you for 3 years if you were to leave but the no work in a certain radius is a common agreement but hardly ever signed.

my understanding is that the radius of non-competing for other professions is about 5-8 miles, and about 1-2 years max. 3 years/125 miles is WAY out of hand.
I would agree not to poach any of the existing clients (I wouldn't want them anyway) but if they come to me, I won't turn them away.
My dad who is a retired lawyer looked at this form last night, and said that this thing unreasonably restricts my ability to earn a living, (under the agreement, I couldn't even work for myself!) and is therefore invalid. since he is retired, he has some time to enumerate all of the objectionable parts of the form, which is almost all of it, and list the statutes that make it unenforceable. Thank you, Dad!
The American Institute of Architects Code of Ethics prohibits an agreement of this magnitude. It is 9 pages long, and is so detailed that it contradicts itself in a number of places. it is not worth wiping my ass with it, let alone putting my signature on it.
you're right, he can't fire me for not signing it. but he can fire me for no reason at all. I am not going to bring it up with him at all, I'll let him ask me for it. my performance review is coming up supposedly next week. if he makes an issue of it, I'll have my lawyer (my Dad) talk to his lawyer. But this has kept me up the last couple of nights.
I can't really relocate; my wife has a good job here, in fact she makes 1.5 times what I make, plus she has all the medical benefits for the family, so it is really not an option.

[angrymissy]

PA is at "at-will" state. He can fire you for not signing it. Do you have an employment contract with him?

I can tell you that my company has a similar non compete, not as strict (2 years), and they have never pursued it, even when we have known that salespeople have gone right to work for the competitor. The contract might not even hold up in court if he pursued it.

[skyscraper]

PA is at "at-will" state. He can fire you for not signing it. Do you have an employment contract with him?

I can tell you that my company has a similar non compete, not as strict (2 years), and they have never pursued it, even when we have known that salespeople have gone right to work for the competitor. The contract might not even hold up in court if he pursued it.

absolutely no employment contract, that is part of the problem. it says in this horrible thing specifically that I am an at-will employee, and that this agreement does not constitute an employment contract.
I honestly doubt he would fire me for not signing it, but he could make life miserable with his pettiness and passive-aggressiveness that I would want to leave. or he could actually be reasonable about it and make the necessary changes. he has said that he would never lay me off, that he would lay off the entire rest of the staff and close up the firm before letting me go, which is reassuring, but then he gives me this fucking thing...I don't get it. I also think it would be hard for him to replace me with someone of equal skills and experience, not because they're not out there but because anyone with half a brain would not sign this thing.

[~Katja~]

a company I worked for had the exact radius and duration in their agreement. Most employees did not sign it and didn't get fired either.

Just tell him that this is not feasible in this economy and if he would fire you for not signing it then he probably would fire you for other unreasonable grounds and you are better off not having signed it in the first place.

On another note, employers rarely follow up on the agreement after you leave unless you are literally in their visibility competing with them and taking clients.

[Contra]

Damn I thought this thread was going to be about that hit nickelodean show from the 90's, loved that show!

Are you in PA? If so it is true that you can be fired for no reason because "it is a privilege to work in the state of Pennsylvania", what bullshit! Of course employers are less then willing to do that because they still have to payout unemployment benefits to you. Also if they refuse the benefits you can sue them for the benefits (this has happened with employees let go from my job).

In the end you have to have faith in your skills. If you were let go, would it be very difficult for you to find another job with the skills and resume' you have? Employers everywhere are trying to shit on their employees right now because of the fear to find work that the economy is causing.

[skyscraper]

Damn I thought this thread was going to be about that hit nickelodean show from the 90's, loved that show!

Are you in PA? If so it is true that you can be fired for no reason because "it is a privilege to work in the state of Pennsylvania", what bullshit! Of course employers are less then willing to do that because they still have to payout unemployment benefits to you. Also if they refuse the benefits you can sue them for the benefits (this has happened with employees let go from my job).

In the end you have to have faith in your skills. If you were let go, would it be very difficult for you to find another job with the skills and resume' you have? Employers everywhere are trying to shit on their employees right now because of the fear to find work that the economy is causing.

I am in PA, and I am well aware that anyone can be fired for no reason at all, which I accept. if I were an employer, I would want to have that right as well; since I would be the one paying, I have the right to dismiss anyone for any reason (except gender, race, handicap, sexual orientation, anything like that.)
I think it would be hard to find another job. Lots of firms are laying off and not a lot are hiring. it's not a question of being confident in my skills, it's a matter of who is hiring. I don't have my architecture license yet, (although that is a major priority for me to do this year) so I cannot just work for myself yet.

[Gvac]

I had signed a non-compete contract with my previous employer which stated I couldn't engage in selling products in my field for 18 months after leaving.

I left there on a Friday and started with my new employer the following Monday.

I got 2 threatening letters from lawyers basically telling me I had to cease and desist immediately.

I ignored them and nothing ever came of it.

You might want to listen to what the others have said and consult an attorney, though.

[Contra]

Sky I didn't realize you didn't have a licence yet, so better keep kissing that corporate ass!

However I do disagree with employers having those rights. Just because they are paying doesn't give them the right to be complete dicks and treat their employees like shit, unless you work in PA, which unfortunately we do.

[skyscraper]

Sky I didn't realize you didn't have a licence yet, so better keep kissing that corporate ass!

However I do disagree with employers having those rights. Just because they are paying doesn't give them the right to be complete dicks and treat their employees like shit, unless you work in PA, which unfortunately we do.

it's not even a corporate ass; my boss is the owner and I am the only other full-time employee. we have a few part-timers, but the whole staff totals about 7.
no, employers definitely have the right to be dicks. but that doesn't mean that you have to take it from them. it's just more incentive for me to get my license and be able to practice on my own.

[skyscraper]

I had signed a non-compete contract with my previous employer which stated I couldn't engage in selling products in my field for 18 months after leaving.

I left there on a Friday and started with my new employer the following Monday.

I got 2 threatening letters from lawyers basically telling me I had to cease and desist immediately.

I ignored them and nothing ever came of it.

You might want to listen to what the others have said and consult an attorney, though.

As I mentioned, I have consulted my dad, who is a retired lawyer. he was going to talk to some colleagues of his who have more experience in this and we're going to talk about it next week.
But thanks to everyone for your input, I do feel a little better. I will feel much better when I find out what all of my options are.

[Contra]

Sorry sky I just meant you are in a tough spot right now with that comment.

And with the way things are right now, you DO have to take it, I mean look at your current situation.