What GOP Leaders Deem Wasteful In Senate Stimulus Bill

[Furtherman]

What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/02/gop.stimulus.worries/index.html)

On Monday, House Republican leaders put out a list of what they call wasteful provisions in the Senate version of the nearly $900 billion stimulus bill that is being debated:

The Senate is currently the nearly $900 billion economic stimulus bill.

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.


What do you think? I see plenty that I think are wasterful, but some that are not:

$400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.
Just recently a cure was discovered to prevent cervical cancer, and funding to the CDC helped. This shouldn't stop.

$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
EDUCATION - 'nuff said.

$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
This is insane - PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES WHO ARE PROTECTING THE COUNTRY!

$1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.
Keep the kids busy, especially in urban areas.

$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
Farmers need to upgrade to and it seems we started with farming and we just may end up with farming.

One last one that might be a lot of money, but who I think should get some money is Amtrak. A lot of people depend on the train, one of the safest forms of transportation in our country. It should be kept up - especially the infrastructer or bridges and tunnels.

[Dan 'Hampton]

The D's are going to have plenty of time to revamp the last 8 years of destruction, keep this bill focused on jump starting the economy.

[A.J.]

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

That whole Department is a waste of money.

$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
This is insane - PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES WHO ARE PROTECTING THE COUNTRY!

That's nothing when you consider that the FBI needs even more money to upgrade its facilities and networks.

[Dude!]

$400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.
Just recently a cure was discovered to prevent cervical cancer, and funding to the CDC helped. This shouldn't stop.

$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
EDUCATION - 'nuff said.

$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
This is insane - PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES WHO ARE PROTECTING THE COUNTRY!

$1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.
Keep the kids busy, especially in urban areas.

$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
Farmers need to upgrade to and it seems we started with farming and we just may end up with farming.


if congress wants to vote on all those issues over the next few months and years
thats fine

but to stick them into what is supposed to be an emergency bill
to jump-start the economy
is just wrong
and proving to be politically stupid on their part

[west milly Tom]

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

So the democrats can stop flooding now? When will they be able to throw lightning bolts? Lol

[A.J.]

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

So the democrats can stop flooding now? When will they be able to throw lightning bolts? Lol

It's better than the Bush plan for Katrina.

http://www.templeton-cambridge.org/fellows/grossman/publications/2007.03.07/americans_get_an_f_in_religion/img/charlton_heston_plays_moses.jpg

[foodcourtdruide]

Isn't this what democracy is all about? One group of people proposes something, the other group revises their proposal so it's more acceptable to them, group A presents a revised proposal, etc.

[west milly Tom]

It's better than the Bush plan for Katrina.

http://www.templeton-cambridge.org/fellows/grossman/publications/2007.03.07/americans_get_an_f_in_religion/img/charlton_heston_plays_moses.jpg



Wait, he had a plan?

[Mullenax]

$850 million for Amtrak? Let it go.

[jauble]

if congress wants to vote on all those issues over the next few months and years
thats fine

but to stick them into what is supposed to be an emergency bill
to jump-start the economy
is just wrong
and proving to be politically stupid on their part

Yeah, this is another bill with a name that you cant vote against thats filled with shit we dont need.

[west milly Tom]

Wasn't one of Obama's campaign promises to not allow earmarks? Ready, spin.

[KnoxHarrington]

Wasn't one of Obama's campaign promises to not allow earmarks? Ready, spin.

No, that was McCain, and he attacked Obama pretty viciously for not making a similar pledge.

[KnoxHarrington]

Here's the thing: I don't mind the Republicans questioning this. They must. They have to. A bill like this is a target for pork, and it does need to be pared down.

The problem is that I get the feeling that the Republicans just want the "stimulus" package to be still more tax cuts for the richest people, and that won't help. Tax cuts can't stimulate the economy like direct spending does.

[Dude!]

No, that was McCain, and he attacked Obama pretty viciously for not making a similar pledge.

an obama pledge is worthless anyway
like his promise to take public campaign monies during the election

just another lying pol

[Furtherman]

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

So the democrats can stop flooding now? When will they be able to throw lightning bolts? Lol

Exactly. You know how you reduce flood damage? Move away from the river.


$850 million for Amtrak? Let it go.

I gotta disagree - we have to keep the trains running.

[Syd]

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

While I disagree with coal, the only reason it's inefficient is because it doesn't spew as much radioactive material and other waste into the air as a normal coal plant would. Employs/maintains workers for this project.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

Questionable, but at the same time you can't deny the movie industry isn't a major employer in the world and films are important for a society.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

You can't sell off public airwaves unless you make sure the public still has access to the media you lord over.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

Important for research and rescue, quite important given global warming issues. Also important to employ people who will build the ships.

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

Important, DHS has been great to coordinate local and federal law enforcement. One of the big issues of why 9/11 happened was that there really was no liaison between the two. Employs workers for this project.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

See above, have to sit somewhere.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees. Employs/maintains workers for this project depending on how you look at it.

Important, reduces hydrocarbon usage.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

Extremely important. Granted these were from 1990s numbers but it cost state governments on average $100k-200k per AIDS case. I am sure other STDs have a non-insignificant cost associated with them too. Employs/maintains workers for this project.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

Extremely important. They're kind of dumping it into water supplies out in the sticks. Employs workers for this project.

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

Extremely important. It's criminally underfunded due to workers in DC almost always don't live there. Employs workers for this project.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

Important, they had their budgets gutted a few times and haven't been able to complete construction/refurnishings in a few areas. Plus the employees who are in lingo. Employs workers for this project.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

Important. You can't just not hold a census, that is tantamount to suspending democracy.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

Recently a town in Colorado? I believe made a broad smoking ban and saw a large reduction in heart attacks. Pretty important.

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

Extremely important. Education is the key to the future and all that jazz.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

No brainer. Employs/maintains workers.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

Extremely important. We kind of killed the Indians so we sort of have to look after them. Employs/maintains workers for this project.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

Uh, there was a major flood not too recently. Also these projects are extremely labor intensive and most states that border on the river have 10%+ effective unemployment rates. Employs workers for this project.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

Important unless you want stormwater debacles. Employs workers for this project.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

Will probably pay itself off in under 2 decades. Also, labor intensive work in an industry that has been gutted recently (construction) Employs workers for this project.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

States are having budget crises: have to pay them to keep things from burning down.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

Saves an incredible amount of money. Plus most of this will be focused towards California which can't even pay its employees. Employs workers for this project.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

Childhood obesity, will pay itself off and then some in the future. Then there's the potential decreases in crime. Employs workers for this project.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

Important, virtually critical aspect in times of crisis. Especially terrorism. Employs workers for this project.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

CDC is at the fore-front of the health of the nation, no reason to let them work in squalor. Employs workers for this project.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

One of the many gutted programs by the Bush administration. Employs workers for this project.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

Employs workers for this project.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

Not entirely sure what this is, but chances are its solar panel related.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

Gutted by Bush administration. Employs/maintains workers.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

Lead paint for all the kids is the only way to go.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

Existing facilities are trash and not suited for the staff. There are different departments for a reason. Employs workers for this project.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

Food shortages will be a major issue as the years progress and global warming alters rain patterns. Important project.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

See above for the hybrid dealio. Most of these vehicles will end up running on ethanol or biodiesel so it will potentially be a reduction in hydrocarbon usage.

[foodcourtdruide]

Wasn't one of Obama's campaign promises to not allow earmarks? Ready, spin.

I don't recall what he had to say during the campaign, though I'm sure you can find something, somewhere about him wanting to decrease earmarks.

On Jan 6 this is what Obama said:

"We are going to ban all earmarks," President-elect Obama pledged today after a meeting with his economic team, discussing the multibillion dollar stimulus package.

Mr. Obama made the promise carefully -- his definition of earmarks was "the process by which individual members insert pet projects without review."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/how-kosher-is-o.html

I think trying to prove Obama as a liar at this point is a waste of time and just senseless politics. I hope the country will focus more on the bill itself.

[Syd]

Here's the thing: I don't mind the Republicans questioning this. They must. They have to. A bill like this is a target for pork, and it does need to be pared down.

The problem is that I get the feeling that the Republicans just want the "stimulus" package to be still more tax cuts for the richest people, and that won't help. Tax cuts can't stimulate the economy like direct spending does.

Pork isn't bad right now. We're in a perfect storm for government spending: we're experiencing unemployment, energy/labor is cheap and we're suffering from somewhat significant deflation (for a first world country)

Tax cuts don't change much now: they're essentially an investment in a company. Right now the issue is unemployment and lack of money for people to purchase even basic goods. Lowering taxes on businesses do little other than allow them to meet their expectations on Wall Street. Even with all the tax cuts in the world there's little incentive to keep workers on right now as things will be worse before they get better. A tax cut just lets a company like Mattel or Proctor and Gamble shed US workers while keeping their revenue up. The workers in Malaysia and China will still work for a pittance.

[Dude!]

Pork isn't bad right now. We're in a perfect storm for government spending: we're experiencing unemployment, energy/labor is cheap and we're suffering from somewhat significant deflation (for a first world country)

Tax cuts don't change much now: they're essentially an investment in a company. Right now the issue is unemployment and lack of money for people to purchase even basic goods. Lowering taxes on businesses do little other than allow them to meet their expectations on Wall Street. Even with all the tax cuts in the world there's little incentive to keep workers on right now as things will be worse before they get better. A tax cut just lets a company like Mattel or Proctor and Gamble shed US workers while keeping their revenue up. The workers in Malaysia and China will still work for a pittance.

i dont know about you but i have a lower-middle to middle class income
i spend every penny i make and dont make enough yet to save

so if i get a tax cut
im spending it

that would be good for the economy

[Knowledged_one]

$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

Everyone will agree that education is important - but $200 million for computers at community colleges well how many community colleges are there nationwide? And how would you determine who gets said $200 million seems to me that this is just extra as with all of the community colleges nationwide this would promise a commodore 64 in every computer center and thats it

[west milly Tom]

No, that was McCain, and he attacked Obama pretty viciously for not making a similar pledge.



You are totally wrong, here's the quote: We are going to ban all earmarks—the process by which individual members insert pet projects without review," he explained. "We will create an economic recovery oversight board made up of key administration officials and independent advisors to identify problems early and make sure we are doing all we can to solve it."

Want to try again?

[west milly Tom]

Wasn't one of Obama's campaign promises to not allow earmarks? Ready, spin.

I don't recall what he had to say during the campaign, though I'm sure you can find something, somewhere about him wanting to decrease earmarks.

On Jan 6 this is what Obama said:

"We are going to ban all earmarks," President-elect Obama pledged today after a meeting with his economic team, discussing the multibillion dollar stimulus package.

Mr. Obama made the promise carefully -- his definition of earmarks was "the process by which individual members insert pet projects without review."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/how-kosher-is-o.html

I think trying to prove Obama as a liar at this point is a waste of time and just senseless politics. I hope the country will focus more on the bill itself.



Of course you do. Spin + back pedal = what happens every time Obama gets called out on a bullshit blatent lie.

[Friday]

You are totally wrong, here's the quote: We are going to ban all earmarks—the process by which individual members insert pet projects without review," he explained. "We will create an economic recovery oversight board made up of key administration officials and independent advisors to identify problems early and make sure we are doing all we can to solve it."


and here is the story quoted above, since Milly doesn't like to link:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/06/obama.stimulus/


:bye:


and for the record... this is something that Obama stated in the first few days of 2009. it was not a campaign promise. so technically, knoxy wasn't wrong. want to try again?

A related item: on January 29, 2008, President George W. Bush signed an executive order directing federal agencies to ignore earmarks contained in conference reports (which is where most of the wasteful earmarks are found).

During the campaign Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said he would keep the order in place, but then-Sen. Obama’s campaign never answered the question as to whether he would. ~ abc news

[foodcourtdruide]

Of course you do. Spin + back pedal = what happens every time Obama gets called out on a bullshit blatent lie.

"Of course you do"?

What the fuck does that mean? Stop treating everyone who disagrees with you as mindless sheep.

[west milly Tom]

"Of course you do"?

What the fuck does that mean? Stop treating everyone who disagrees with you as mindless sheep.



If you believe the spin, you are sheep. You basically said he didn't lie because he covered himself well. That's still lying.

[west milly Tom]

and here is the story quoted above, since Milly doesn't like to link:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/06/obama.stimulus/


:bye:


and for the record... this is something that Obama stated in his first few days in office. it was not a campaign promise. so technically, knoxy wasn't wrong. want to try again?



You're mincing words. Just call it what it is. Bush was no better at this. I'm not even partisan here, the republicans are as bad if not worse. Just call it what it is, broken promise.

[Friday]

You're mincing words. Just call it what it is. Bush was no better at this. I'm not even partisan here, the republicans are as bad if not worse. Just call it what it is, broken promise.

i am not mincing words and it isn't a broken promise if you are paying attention to the entire story and not just randomly quoting news articles without researching where they come from.

i was just merely calling you out for being incorrect. happens to everyone.

[west milly Tom]

i am not mincing words and it isn't a broken promise if you are paying attention to the entire story and not just randomly quoting news articles without researching where they come from.

i was just merely calling you out for being incorrect. happens to everyone.



Please stop trying to demean. Its not random quoting its very specific and it was a broken promise. You can choose to see it however you wish, but when "calling someone out" be better at being right and not spouting some opinion you heard on ABC news.

[Friday]

Please stop trying to demean. Its not random quoting its very specific and it was a broken promise. You can choose to see it however you wish, but when "calling someone out" be better at being right and not spouting some opinion you heard on ABC news.

please just explain to me how it is a broken promise. this seems to be your theme but i am missing the backup.

Ready, 'splain!

[west milly Tom]

please just explain to me how it is a broken promise. this seems to be your theme but i am missing the backup.

Ready, 'splain!



Come on, you know the point. Just reread above a few more times and if you still can't figure it out, ill try harder to splain more gooder.

[Aggie]

$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

Everyone will agree that education is important - but $200 million for computers at community colleges well how many community colleges are there nationwide? And how would you determine who gets said $200 million seems to me that this is just extra as with all of the community colleges nationwide this would promise a commodore 64 in every computer center and thats it

All they do is use it for porn and facebook anyway.

[Knowledged_one]

All they do is use it for porn and facebook anyway.

thats all i ever used it for but replace facebook with Napster

[Aggie]

thats all i ever used it for but replace facebook with Napster

Shhh, Lars will come hunt you down!

[Ritalin]

All they do is use it for porn and facebook anyway.

Ok, here's an idea: Pornbook.

No.

FacePorn.

(can I have some stimulus money now, please?)

[foodcourtdruide]

If you believe the spin, you are sheep. You basically said he didn't lie because he covered himself well. That's still lying.

I came to this conclusion on my own. No one told me to think this way. I think that Obama selected his words carefully and didn't want to outright say "I AM NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY EARMARKS". You just want him to be a liar for some reason.

Also, I'm a bit confused about chronology. You said he made these promises during the campaign, but the quote that I put up was well after the campaign in January.

If the only basis you have for him being anti-earmarks was from Jan. 6th then I don't think you can call him a liar. Were any of the earmarks listed above "pet-projects" inserted "without review"?

Was he being political when he made the Jan. 6th comments in order to cover himself? Possibly. Does that mean he's a liar? No.

[FezsAssistant]

I agree with the Republicans here.
Obama said we were in a financial emergency and the stimulus package needs to help things quickly. Putting in billions of pork doesn't help things. These other topics should be addressed at another time.
The Dem's are using the public's fear to pass a bunch of bullshit just like the Republicans did after 9/11.

[Syd]

I agree with the Republicans here.
Obama said we were in a financial emergency and the stimulus package needs to help things quickly. Putting in billions of pork doesn't help things. These other topics should be addressed at another time.
The Dem's are using the public's fear to pass a bunch of bullshit just like the Republicans did after 9/11.

Consumer prices just fell 1.7% in December and will be down this month. We're closing in on 10% unemployment by classic definitions and well over 10% in real definitions. That is, by definition, an economic emergency.

[Friday]

Come on, you know the point. Just reread above a few more times and if you still can't figure it out, ill try harder to splain more gooder.

*sigh*
i honestly think you don't truly understand what you are posting... so i am going to stop trying to beat my point into you. just go back to my first response. it's all there... the chronology speaks for itself. interpret at will, i guess.

[KnoxHarrington]

Obama never said in the campaign he would cut earmarks, and he was pilloried by McCain and others over it.

Continuing to say otherwise is either an absolute lack of understanding of what happened, or a lie.

In either case, my response at this point is as follows: GOOD DAY SIR!

[boosterp]

and here is the story quoted above, since Milly doesn't like to link:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/06/obama.stimulus/


:bye:


and for the record... this is something that Obama stated in the first few days of 2009. it was not a campaign promise. so technically, knoxy wasn't wrong. want to try again?

You're mincing words. Just call it what it is. Bush was no better at this. I'm not even partisan here, the republicans are as bad if not worse. Just call it what it is, broken promise.

i am not mincing words and it isn't a broken promise if you are paying attention to the entire story and not just randomly quoting news articles without researching where they come from.

i was just merely calling you out for being incorrect. happens to everyone.

Please stop trying to demean. Its not random quoting its very specific and it was a broken promise. You can choose to see it however you wish, but when "calling someone out" be better at being right and not spouting some opinion you heard on ABC news.

please just explain to me how it is a broken promise. this seems to be your theme but i am missing the backup.

Ready, 'splain!

Come on, you know the point. Just reread above a few more times and if you still can't figure it out, ill try harder to splain more gooder.


Tom, I love ya budday and you are one of my favorite Shelter people but I think you are being a bit harsh. I neither see where Friday is demeaning nor menacing words with you. She merely supported your point and made a correction to it with citations. On the contrary I think you took it as an attack.

Sorry budday, just my 2 cents.

Back to beer.

[Serpico1103]

If you believe the spin, you are sheep. You basically said he didn't lie because he covered himself well. That's still lying.

No, that is not lying. It may be misleading and then the question would be whether or not it was intentionally misleading.
He explained what he meant. Something that someone who is trying to be misleading would not do. He could have left out how he defines "earmark" until later when he was called out on it to "cover his ass." Instead, he was up front about it. I can understand that after 8 years of GW you are not used to a President that explains himself.
Spinning happens after you are caught, not when you are explaining what you mean.

While Obama has a long road ahead of him. It will be difficult to look bad in comparison to GW.

[epo]

Here's the thing: I don't mind the Republicans questioning this. They must. They have to. A bill like this is a target for pork, and it does need to be pared down.

The problem is that I get the feeling that the Republicans just want the "stimulus" package to be still more tax cuts for the richest people, and that won't help. Tax cuts can't stimulate the economy like direct spending does.

That essentially was the crux of the argument in the House of Representatives. The house republicans wanted more tax cuts and the democrats, while they insert some tax cuts, didn't include the level of cutting the republicans wanted.

The problem with that argument is that a tax cut generally creates 75 cents of economy, while infrastructure creates $1.50. (these numbers are approximate as I don't have access at the moment) While while the tax cut is nice, the figure is not only lower in generating economic growth, the net result of it is a temporary tax cut....while the result of an infrastructure project is the created infrastructure that can be used for commerce by private industry...hence giving the long-term health of the economy a boost as well.

By that measure, I think house democrats gave up too much in negotiations for the manner in which house republicans treated them, the bill itself and the situation at large.

[SonOfSmeagol]

By that measure, I think house democrats gave up too much in negotiations for the manner in which house republicans treated them, the bill itself and the situation at large.

I may have missed something, but I'm not sure how you can say that when the House PASSED the bill without a single Republican vote (and a few scattered Democrat votes against). What, exactly, did the House Democrats give up (besides the Planned Parenthood "stimuli" and grass sod for the National Mall)?

[high fly]

From the start the Republicans have been against anything to provide more jobs and when I go down the list in the OP of things they object to, I see a lot of spending that will do just that - provide jobs....

[high fly]

That essentially was the crux of the argument in the House of Representatives. The house republicans wanted more tax cuts and the democrats, while they insert some tax cuts, didn't include the level of cutting the republicans wanted.



I am not sure if it was the level instead of the beneficiaries.
Remember, t was the Republicans who have been opposing tax cuts for those who need it most - middle and lower income groups.
Republicans want tax cuts to go to millionaires who are already doing just fine, thank you, and who need the cuts the least....

[SonOfSmeagol]

This plan seems to be a hybrid of so many things: infrastructure, energy, health care, tax cuts, etc, etc. Sure there’s “stimuli” in there that should create and/or save some jobs, and some worthwhile programs. But it really has a lot to it, including a lot of pure spending of questionable, partisan nature. Very hard to categorize it as a “stimulus” when it’s all over the place and so huge. Maybe it should be broken up into smaller packages for consideration.

And it seems so muddled as to how the results of all this will be measured. It might make it through the Senate, but BHO and the Congress should NOT come back to the well for more spending on some of this stuff any time soon.

[Tallman388]

I gotta disagree - we have to keep the trains running.

Mussolini said the same thing.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Here’s my idea for a stimulus: have the government hire a bunch of people to tear down all the empty, unused residences all over the US. This’ll create a bunch of jobs, sharpen the demand for new housing, and drive up the values of existing housing. People’ll also then get right-side up on their mortgages, have equity they can borrow against, and spend it on whatever they want, thereby infusing money into the system!

Then, hire a bunch of people to rebuild all the housing needed by the demand created because all the others were torn down! Thereby creating a bunch of new jobs and – here’s the icing - all the new stuff could be created with all the latest green and efficient technology, and using recycled stuff from all the old houses. Thereby saving energy and helping the environment! Brilliant! I think it could work!

[epo]

This plan seems to be a hybrid of so many things: infrastructure, energy, health care, tax cuts, etc, etc. Sure there’s “stimuli” in there that should create and/or save some jobs, and some worthwhile programs. But it really has a lot to it, including a lot of pure spending of questionable, partisan nature. Very hard to categorize it as a “stimulus” when it’s all over the place and so huge. Maybe it should be broken up into smaller packages for consideration.

And it seems so muddled as to how the results of all this will be measured. It might make it through the Senate, but BHO and the Congress should NOT come back to the well for more spending on some of this stuff any time soon.

That's what a stimulus package is....a big spending bill.

[sailor]

an obama pledge is worthless anyway
like his promise to take public campaign monies during the election

just another lying pol

he's half-pol at most.

[SonOfSmeagol]

That's what a stimulus package is....a big spending bill.

That's just not true.
Yes, in order to invoke a stimulus you have to spend, but not all spending leads to stimulus!

[Syd]

All spending leads to stimulus, period. That is one of the more novel features of a currency based economy.

[K.C.]

What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/02/gop.stimulus.worries/index.html)

On Monday, House Republican leaders put out a list of what they call wasteful provisions in the Senate version of the nearly $900 billion stimulus bill that is being debated:

The Senate is currently the nearly $900 billion economic stimulus bill.

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

On the fence about this. Could provide a future prototype model to restructuring our energy policy. Or could be a waste. I'd have to learn more about it.


• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

It's a tax break...it's not a stipend. So, that's not horrible. But, yeah, this could probably go.


• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.


Keep it...gotta finish the job on this one.


• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).


Again...on the fence. Could be a waste, could be important to defense measures in that region. Not sure.


• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.


Why does this department still exist?


• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.


See last comment.


• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.


Sound investment...will cut government fuel costs in the end.


• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.


Keep it.


• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.


Keep it.


• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.


Keep it.


• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.


Keep it.



• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.


Keep it.


• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."


Toss it.


• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.


Keep it.


• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.


Is this for a raise, or to pay their normal salaries? If it's a raise, toss it...nobody else it getting raises, they shouldn't either. If it's to cover what they already make, keep it.


• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.


Sorry, but the Indians are going to have to take another hit for the white man. Toss it, and start some Tribal God based AA.


• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.


Keep it...should have been done 10 years ago, at least.


• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.


Keep it.


• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.


Keep it.


• $500 million for state and local fire stations.


Keep it.


• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.


Keep it.


• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.


Keep it.


• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.


Keep it.


• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.


Keep it.


• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.


Keep it.


• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.


Toss it...I thought this president was suppose to inspire civil and community service? Give a few speeches on it and save the money.


• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.


Keep it.


• $850 million for Amtrak.


eh....this is a tough one. Amtrak's not really profitable, but at the same time, it's still a good idea. I would approve this on the condition that the government is going to make a more concerted effort to push people towards public transportation. If it's just "let's hand them 850 million'...sadly, I'd cut it.


• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.


Keep it.


• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.


Toss it.


• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.


Keep it.


• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.


Keep it.



The bottom line is that it's a STIMULUS PACKAGE. The point is to spend. Most of the stuff on there is designed to create jobs to carry out these projects.

[SonOfSmeagol]

All spending leads to stimulus, period.

The bottom line is that it's a STIMULUS PACKAGE. The point is to spend.

:wallbash:

[Syd]

:wallbash:

Where does the money go? Does it evaporate?

edit:
Fantastic read on government spending and the "ills" of it (http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/422902.html)

[SonOfSmeagol]

Where does the money go? Does it evaporate?

sadly, when gov't is involved (of all parties), it can do just that.

[Serpico1103]

sadly, when gov't is involved (of all parties), it can do just that.


Unless it is military spending, than it all gets spent properly.
Does anyone think anyone in congress is actually analyzing these projects. At best they look at the names,but I doubt it even goes that far. Socialize it all.

[Syd]

sadly, when gov't is involved (of all parties), it can do just that.


Where does it go?