Honesty Sucks- Honestly!

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Lately I've been seeing a lot of good people (such as Gvac here on RF and family members of mine) harping a great deal on the notion that HONESTY is the summary of what makes a good person. That honesty is this all-encompassing important thing that if you lack when you interact with anybody, it means you're a sad sack of dishonest shit. "A REAL man is honest."

Frankly, I think that when anyone starts talking about how honest they are, it's a bunch of moralizing machismo designed to make one feel superior to another and is therefore invalid. Or they're trying to sell you something. Or sell to themselves. I find that dishonest.

I am going to say right now that I think honesty, real 100% straight honesty, cannot exist for good reason. I also think that people who are not always totally honest with themselves or others are certainly not bags of shit because of it.

What do you think "Honesty" is? What makes someone honest? What are the borders between honesty and dishonesty? Good? Bad? I'll leave those answers up to you.

[britneypablo]

<font color="deeppink"> being honest with yourself is too hard because you have to step outside urself just to find what it is that is the truth and very few people can do that....but being honest with other people is important bc if its a bad thing, at least u can let them trip and fall rather than dig a giant hole and push them into it (when the truth comes out!)....being honest with others you care about is your duty, bc u know they are having a hard time being honest with themselves...so give the favor and hopefully it will be returned to you

[SatCam]

don't listen to anything gvac says

[ToiletCrusher]

It's not so much that you have to be the most honest person but being true to yourself is important. If you are a liar, let people know that and it will never hurt them or anyone else because they know what to expect of you.

[disneyspy]

to thine ownself be true is impossible because we have such tiny human brains,and if it comes to tellin a chick she looks nice(whether it be because you want to go out to dinner without having to wait for another change of clothes or just to get some)is somethin that is expected,i dont worry about the degrees of honesty but i do try to tell the truth if it doesnt hurt someone too much and i dont gain by doing so

[Gvac]

I am going to say right now that I think honesty, real 100% straight honesty, cannot exist for good reason. I also think that people who are not always totally honest with themselves or others are certainly not bags of shit because of it.


I think you're probably right when you say 100% honesty cannot exist. If your chick asks you if you ever think of someone else when you're having sex with her, it might not be a great idea to answer completely honestly, for example.

What I mean when I speak of honesty is not being a fraud, either to yourself or others. Misrepresenting yourself or your intentions certainly does make you a bag of shit in my eyes, especially when it impacts the life of someone other than yourself.

Let's say you're entering a business partnership with a friend and you claim you will dedicate your life to the venture and have plenty of capital to back you up for the first several months/years, when in reality you know for a fact you're a lazy SOB with no drive and no cash. You've not only screwed yourself, but your buddy as well.

Ronnie B's not-so-subtle jabs at the AshelyMadison.com reads also speak to this when he points out how great it will be to cheat on your wife, kids, and everyone you made your vows in front of if you decide to step out and cheat on your partner behind her back.

It's as low and self-centered an act as there is in this world.

Honesty requires a great amount of courage, for sure. Lying is a lot easier most of the time. Obviously that doesn't make it the better course of action.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Ladies and gents, Disney has hit the nail on the head. He tells the truth when it doesn't hurt someone unnecessarily.

As for being true to yourself, you guys know those slogans at the Oracle of Delphi. "Know Thyself" and "Always in Moderation". Very important standards to try to live by, as easy to achieve as Nirvana. If full fledged unrelenting honesty with yourself is not possible, how the fuck can you be expected to be always honest with others?

Bottom line, dishonesty is just as good and bad as honesty can be.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

I think you're probably right when you say 100% honesty cannot exist. If your chick asks you if you ever think of someone else when you're having sex with her, it might not be a great idea to answer completely honestly, for example.

What I mean when I speak of honesty is not being a fraud, either to yourself or others. Misrepresenting yourself or your intentions certainly does make you a bag of shit in my eyes, especially when it impacts the life of someone other than yourself.

Let's say you're entering a business partnership with a friend and you claim you will dedicate your life to the venture and have plenty of capital to back you up for the first several months/years, when in reality you know for a fact you're a lazy SOB with no drive and no cash. You've not only screwed yourself, but your buddy as well.

Ronnie B's not-so-subtle jabs at the AshelyMadison.com reads also speak to this when he points out how great it will be to cheat on your wife, kids, and everyone you made your vows in front of if you decide to step out and cheat on your partner behind her back.

It's as low and self-centered an act as there is in this world.

Honesty requires a great amount of courage, for sure. Lying is a lot easier most of the time. Obviously that doesn't make it the better course of action.

At the same time though, dishonesty can require a great deal of strength and courage too. Is it always the better course of action? Yes and no. Like anything else in life, it depends on where you're coming from and what the situation is.

Here's a moral conundrum:
You find out you have cancer. You have a daughter, working her ass off midway senior year in some college. You SHOULD tell her about it, she needs to know, right? But what if the news is gonna cripple her momentum during that really busy last year at school? What if you don't want to spoil her happiness just yet? She will find out no matter what you do- but when she's on the phone with you, and she says "how you doing?" - Honesty or dishonesty?

[Gvac]

At the same time though, dishonesty can require a great deal of strength and courage too. Is it always the better course of action? Yes and no. Like anything else in life, it depends on where you're coming from and what the situation is.

Here's a moral conundrum:
You find out you have cancer. You have a daughter, working her ass off midway senior year in some college. You SHOULD tell her about it, she needs to know, right? But what if the news is gonna cripple her momentum during that really busy last year at school? What if you don't want to spoil her happiness just yet? She will find out no matter what you do- but when she's on the phone with you, and she says "how you doing?" - Honesty or dishonesty?

I don't understand what you mean when you say dishonesty can require a great deal of strength and courage. It doesn't. Lying to "make it all better" is the easy way out.

As for the moral conundrum, am I going to live long enough to see my daughter graduate or do I have days to live?

If I'm going to be dead in a week of course I tell her. If I die while she's still in school she'll be shattered anyway. If I'm going to live long enough, when she asks how I'm doing I say "great now that I've heard from you."

And that wouldn't be a lie. I'd bet it would make a father incredibly happy and proud to see a child accomplish something wonderful, and his own health is the last thing on his mind at a time like that.

[Don Stugots]

I have no room in my life for people pretending to be something that they are.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

I don't consider it a weak thing to be a pillar of strength for someone when the chips are down for them, even if you yourself are feeling like hell. You don't tell anyone about how bad you feel, in spite of your selfish desire to dump your issues on them. In effect, when they say 'how are you doing' and you say 'Great' and spin some inspirational story to make 'em feel better even when you yourself don't believe it... you don't want to bum them out with your own issues, or make them think that your problems are bigger than theirs, even if your problems are, understandably, bigger deals for you.

In that kinda situation, you're being dishonest- and having to keep something to yourself can be a lonely tough thing to do. That's how I feel it can take some courage. It's not always more courageous to be honest. I think 'courage' is largely dependent upon what the easy impulsive action is versus the difficult thoughtful action.

[ToiletCrusher]

I have no room in my life for people pretending to be something that they are.

what about people pretending to be something they are not?

[IMSlacker]

Pretending to be something you are is way more dishonest. It's diabolical.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Pretending to be something you are is way more dishonest. It's diabolical.

:lol: "to be honest, it was more like a chuckle. i'm not laughing out loud, like HA HA." I'd find that honesty a little annoying.

[made cummsies]

I honestly love and respect every last one of you :dry:

[monkfish]

Honesty is just easier - at least for me. No worries about keeping stories straight, plus it makes Baby Jesus happy.

[CaféCockCodeine]

Honesty is just easier - at least for me. No worries about keeping stories straight, plus it makes Baby Jesus happy.

So when a bloated girlfriend asks "Does this make me look fat?", how do you answer?

When a slow-witted child says "Daddy, the kids at school call me stupid; am I?", do you tell the truth?

I don't, I'm a big believer in the White Lie.

[monkfish]

So when a bloated girlfriend asks "Does this make me look fat?", how do you answer?

I've never been asked that, but if my wife asks if I like her outfit I'll answer honestly (and if it's a "no" then I throw out a suggestion.)

When a slow-witted child says "Daddy, the kids at school call me stupid; am I?", do you tell the truth?
Yes...fortunately my kids aren't too slow - unlike their dad. :)

I catch your meaning - I'll do a white lie once in a while if the situation merits it, but not if it's to cover my ass (I try not to get into spots where I'd have to.)