Are we going to see serious drug legalization talk soon?

[TheMojoPin]

As I'm sure most of you know, the "drug war" in Mexico has been out of control there. The military is actively battling with cartels, and the murders and kidnappings are spilling over the border into the US.

While many pundits are quick to jump to ye olde "seal off the border" rhetoric, present attitudes towards the War on Drugs would likely entail an indefinite military occupation of the border and of parts of Mexico itself.

What potenially raises the idea of drug legalization is that these cartels are marijuana cartels.

It's estimated that these cartels make 65-70% of their profits off of the growth, processing, smuggling and sale of marijuana. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/mexican.drug.war/index.html)

Sodoes this open up a path for the serious discussion of the legalization or extensive national decriminalization of marijuana?

These cartels are doing almost all of their business "with" the US. If we move towards legalization, they're stripped of their primary mean of income. They eventully lose most of the money they need to hire guys willing to fight and kidnap for them, to buy weapons and vehicles, to spread around for bribes and legal/political protection, etc..

These cartels are hinged on one cash crop. You strip them off that crop, boom, they'll eventually splinter and fall apart. They can't just stop on a dime and switch to other drugs because of a variety of reasons: whether or not they can grow or get the necessary crops, whether they have the means to process or make drugs and, most critically, other cartels elsewhere have control of them. They won't hae the source of income to fight other cartels.

Obviously, this isn't a cure-all that magically rids us and Mexico of crime, but it seems ike something tha seriously needs to be considered as it would arguably destroy these cartels and their ability to do what they're doing now.

Here's a good recent editorial that sums of the benefits of legalization in the face of what's going on down south. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/miron.legalization.drugs/index.html)

What say you?

Is it time to free the weed?

[MacVittie]

Not with this administration. Joe Biden practically invented the war on drugs. I would, however, like to see more states go the Massachuesetts route and deal with small amounts with a ticket and confiscation rather than an arrest and a misdemeanor.

[A.J.]

Kill all the addicts. No demand, no need for a supply.

[Death Metal Moe]

It's been time for years. I don't see current attitudes being changed anytime in the near future. This bullshit D.A.R.E. and other garbage politicians have been selling the public to make it look like they're doing something have driven home how "horrible" pot is to the public.

If you talked to most average folk, even though they probably tried some pot as a kid, would still give you that "gateway drug" nonsense as an answer about why pot is bad.

I have been for legalization for a long time and I don't even smoke.

[Snoogans]

we already are in the states. Some have decriminalized and others are in the process. The Feds will come around soon.


VIVA LA WEED

[El Mudo]

Its an issue i've changed my mind on in recent years...

I've never done it, nor would I ever, but if someone else wants to do it, what do I care? God bless em

I don't see it happening for a looooooong time though, if ever. The Government's spent so much money and resources preaching about how bad marijuana is that I wouldn't put it past them to do it out of spite

[yojimbo7248]

we already are in the states. Some have decriminalized and others are in the process. The Feds will come around soon.


VIVA LA WEED

completely agree. first step will be the feds not interfering when states legalize pot. you could legally have pot for personal use in Alaska before feds kept funds from them as punishment. One day Alaska, Vermont or Oregon will legalize it and Washington will pretend to not notice.

[Aggie]

Kill all the addicts. No demand, no need for a supply.

:glurps:

[TheMojoPin]

I think a lot of you are underestimating what's going on in Mexico. That situation isn't going to be quelled anytime soon unless we basically send in troops to occupy parts of it and seal off the border or marijuana is nationally legalized for sale, purchase and growth. Dozens of Americans IN the US have already been killed, attacked and kidnapped because of this, and that's only going to increase.

[A.J.]

:glurps:

I was joking of course.

But I thought you had quit?

[Aggie]

I think a lot of you are underestimating what's going on in Mexico. That situation isn't going to be quelled anytime soon unless we basically send in troops to occupy parts of it and seal off the brder or marijuana is nationally legalized for sale, purchase and growth. Dozens of Americans IN the US have already been killed, attacked and kidnapped because of this, and that's only going to increase.

It's been spilling into Houston for awhile now. I'm with you, this seems like the logical step to making a significant change in the situation. I really hope that political agendas don't hamper the decision maker's judgment but that might be too much to ask for.

[yojimbo7248]

I think a lot of you are underestimating what's going on in Mexico. That situation isn't going to be quelled anytime soon unless we basically send in troops to occupy parts of it and seal off the brder or marijuana is nationally legalized for sale, purchase and growth. Dozens of Americans IN the US have already been killed, attacked and kidnapped because of this, and that's only going to increase.

There was a guest writer in NY Times this morning arguing that Mexico is not on the verge of becoming a failed state. It was responding to a CIA product claiming that both Mexico and Pakistan are on the verge of complete political breakdown. The op-ed piece was protesting so much and so poorly argued that I walked away convinced that the country is in serious trouble. Mojo, good thread and I think you are completely right.

On a side note, everyone should watch Breaking Bad. It's amazing how relevant it is with the economic situation and the border region drug war.

[TheMojoPin]

On a side note, everyone should watch Breaking Bad. It's amazing how relevant it is with the economic situation and the border region drug war.

Sound advice for everyone. That show is amazing.

[ChrisTheCop]

Sounds like a good plan Mojo.

But how do we get politicians to go for it?

[TheMojoPin]

Sounds like a good plan Mojo.

But how do we get politicians to go for it?

Callous as it is, stepping on the bodies of dead Americans. It needs to emphasized that sealing off the border would require the military to be there basically indefinitely and that they would likely have to engage heavily armed criminals on a pretty regular basis. The cartels are making a ton of money shipping and selling marijuana in the US, and they're not going to give that up just because the military is at the border. We'd have to send troops into Mexico in addition to securing the border, which lead to more indeifnite occupations that would get more Americans killed.

Either way, Americans will die violently an in increasing numbers, either fighting these guys in Mexico or these criminals coming into the US and killing and abducting citizens on our soil. This is what needs to be emphasized that we want to avoid and stop.

[Contra]

As much as I'd like to see the decriminalization of pot I HIGHLY doubt that will happen no matter how bad the violence gets.

What I see happening is Mexico becoming the next target of the "war on terror" once we pull out of iraq. Then Mexico will be an occupied country of the US. Let's just hope their insurgency isn't as prolific in carbombs and IED's as Al queda.

[KatPw]

It's been time for years. I don't see current attitudes being changed anytime in the near future. This bullshit D.A.R.E. and other garbage politicians have been selling the public to make it look like they're doing something have driven home how "horrible" pot is to the public.

If you talked to most average folk, even though they probably tried some pot as a kid, would still give you that "gateway drug" nonsense as an answer about why pot is bad.

I have been for legalization for a long time and I don't even smoke.

This!
Our policies regarding cannabis prohibition are based on blatant lies and fear-mongering. It needs to stop.

[yojimbo7248]

What I see happening is Mexico becoming the next target of the "war on terror" once we pull out of iraq. Then Mexico will be an occupied country of the US. Let's just hope their insurgency isn't as prolific in carbombs and IED's as Al queda.

I think you are right. Our armed forces are going to be involved with one insurgency after another for the foreseeable future. Next up - Mexico. I can already hear the language: "this time the threat is literally on our border", "gang lords are ruling Mexico and only we can bring back law and order". It will be sold to the American people as combining the humanitarian aspect of Somalia effort with the fear of a porous border.

[Snoogans]

maybe we can just get the government so busy with wars that they forget to watch us

[A.J.]

I think you are right. Our armed forces are going to be involved with one insurgency after another for the foreseeable future. Next up - Mexico. I can already hear the language: "this time the threat is literally on our border", "gang lords are ruling Mexico and only we can bring back law and order". It will be sold to the American people as combining the humanitarian aspect of Somalia effort with the fear of a porous border.

You mean it represents a "clear and present danger"?

http://www.videodetective.com/photos/125/00525304_.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

I think you are right. Our armed forces are going to be involved with one insurgency after another for the foreseeable future. Next up - Mexico. I can already hear the language: "this time the threat is literally on our border", "gang lords are ruling Mexico and only we can bring back law and order". It will be sold to the American people as combining the humanitarian aspect of Somalia effort with the fear of a porous border.

I just don't see the public tolerating that as that there would no way for it to be ever "won." It would just go on and on and more and more Americans would be killed.

[WampusCrandle]

VIVA LA WEED

i didn't know that you could speak Spanish

[Snoogans]

i didn't know that you could speak Spanish

No te gusta la panocha


Yo hablo espanol mas o menos

[badmonkey]

Here's a construction job Obama can spend some money on that's already been approved. Build the fence already. It's not racist. It's not isolationist. It's not xenophobic. We have borders because we are a sovereign nation and those borders should be protected.

Now having said that...

The fact that the wall has never been built or discussed since the War on Drugs first started is the only proof you need that it has never been taken seriously since day one. It's a colossal waste of money and punishes what is largely victimless crime. If we're not going to actually do anything to prevent the drugs from coming into the country, then why bother with the War on Drugs. I've seen it reported several times that minors are able to obtain illegal drugs far easier than alcohol or cigarettes. The drug dealer on the corner isn't going to check my 6yr old's ID to see if she's over 18 or 21 before he sells her the drugs in his pocket. There is a much more realistic chance that the guy behind the counter of the local convenience store will check her ID and not sell her the drugs. If for some reason she is able to buy drugs because "she looked old enough" and didn't get carded.... at least there is a realistic chance that this weed isn't laced with rat poison for a better high.

So build the fucking wall and legalize the marijuana already. Maybe while we're at it, we could release some of the "zero tolerance" prisoners and make room for some of the murderers and rapist that California can't afford to keep anymore.

Badmonkey

[TheMojoPin]

The wall, like militarily securing the border, ignores that these guys have the means to sidestep the land border altogether by air and by sea en masse or to get back and forth across the border legally.

I actually see benefits to securing the border with a better fence/wall, but its effects on the escalating drug war we're seeing now would likely be negligible.

Like you said, one of the better options would be the wall and legalization. Legalization would eventually strip them of much of the resources and manpower they need to skirt the land US/Mexico border as they're able to do now.

[badmonkey]

The wall, like militarily securing the border, ignores that these guys have the means to sidestep the land border altogether by air and by sea en masse or to get back and forth across the border legally.

I actually see benefits to securing the border with a better fence/wall, but its effects on the escalating drug war we're seeing now would likely be negligible.

Like you said, one of the better options would be the wall and legalization. Legalization would eventually strip them of much of the resources and manpower they need to skirt the land US/Mexico border as they're able to do now.

Did we just kick off the apocalypse?

[TheMojoPin]

Quite possibly.

I can see this bringing together a lot of really divergent political partisans.

[Snoogans]

Quite possibly.

I can see this bringing together a lot of really divergent political partisans.

2012 the Myan aliens come back to end us anyway

[Thomas Merton]

This!
Our policies regarding cannabis prohibition are based on blatant lies and fear-mongering. It needs to stop.

Add racism and greed on the part of the Dupont corp. Read "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herer for a full history of this ridiculous War we've pissed away billions on with absolutely no results. Good, non-academic read

Mojo, my man! Finally a subject we can agree on and brings us together as weed ironically does with people.

Legalize it, don't criticize it!

[DarkHippie]

In a related aspect, legalizing pot would add a very large cash crop and luxury item to the US economy.

My uncle has a small marijuana farm in Oregon. He is only allowed to have a set amount of plants, and he can only sell to pharmacies. If pot was legalized, he would be a wealthy man, and I would move out there and become a farmer.

[Thomas Merton]

Hippie, move out there anyway. Oregon will be the first state to try to outright legalize it. I love it out there, lots of kind people. I go every year to see Yonder Mountain String Band's Northwest String Summit in North Plains. Up to an oz. is a ticket and a good day sir.

[cougarjake13]

prob not

[Recyclerz]

AG Holder - Feds won't prosecute pot providers in compliance with state laws. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/us/20marijuana.html?ref=us)

Full scale legalization would definitely be a second term issue though. There are too many "bigger" issues to be dealt with before this.

[epo]

AG Holder - Feds won't prosecute pot providers in compliance with state laws. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/us/20marijuana.html?ref=us)

Full scale legalization would definitely be a second term issue though. There are too many "bigger" issues to be dealt with before this.

You are correct in that legalization is definitely a second-term issue.

[Drunky McBetidont]

the fact that medical marijuana is not legal and readily available in all 50 states is mind blowing. carter smoked dope on the roof of the white house with willie nelson back in 1977. jesus christ on a rubber crutch, that was over 30 years ago. this country has its religous head so far up its constricted ass that it can see to shit.

fuck it, i hope canada and mexico partner up to build walls to keep us out. i bet dubai and saudi arabia would finance the deal.

[Drunky McBetidont]

2012 the Myan aliens come back to end us anyway

mayans are aliens? i thought they were indians. egyptians fucked aliens and now humans have alien dna that is hitchhiking though evolution. ask chuckwagoncook. and the human genome project scientists. they will tell you about the millions of lines of code that are useless to us. much like 90% of our grey matter.

assholes

[TheMojoPin]

In a related aspect, legalizing pot would add a very large cash crop and luxury item to the US economy.

My uncle has a small marijuana farm in Oregon. He is only allowed to have a set amount of plants, and he can only sell to pharmacies. If pot was legalized, he would be a wealthy man, and I would move out there and become a farmer.

No kidding. Seems like such a no-brainer given these economically shaky times. It would be a step getting back to the consumer's republic we were post-WW2.

[joeyballsack]

I would actually support this, but if its done, what is going to stop the cartels from shifting their output to heroin or cocaine and bringing that in ?

I think no matter what, if the current violence continues we are going to see a military presence on the border.

It really makes you wonder what was done over the previous 8 years when it came to border security either way. We have been told over and over that we are at threat for domestic terrorism and its still possible for Pancho Villa to come over the border at will ?

[TheMojoPin]

I would actually support this, but if its done, what is going to stop the cartels from shifting their output to heroin or cocaine and bringing that in?

Reality.

The crops needed for cocaine and heroin can only be grown in certain places. You need key facilities and material to process them and actually make the narcotics. On top of that, those drugs are already controled by other, much stonger cartels in the hemisphere. These Mexican cartels are hinged on marijuana for a reason. They lose that, they eventualy splinter and/or die off.

[El Mudo]

maybe we can just get the government so busy with whores that they forget to watch us



Fixed

[TripleSkeet]

As much as I think they should legalize weed (and I dont even smoke), I dont see you have a chance of that happening ever. And it has nothing to do with the safety of children, the chances of it being a gateway drug, increases in driving accidents or anything like that.

Its money. The money the pharmaceutical companies in this country stand to lose if people are allowed to smoke weed instead of having to depend on them for drugs like valium, xanax, oxycodone, percosette and 100 other pills. They stand to lose too much money to ever let that happen. Their political contributions will make sure the legalization of pot has as much chance of seeing the light of day as the car that runs on water.

Thats the real drug problem in this country. Its not weed, meth or coke. Its prescription pills. More people in this country are addicted to that shit then anything else.

[booster11373]

We have yet to see a truthful discussion about sexual education in this country. The same people who are against that will be out in masses to protest any talk of drug legalization

[Aggie]

We have yet to see a truthful discussion about sexual education in this country. The same people who are against that will be out in masses to protest any talk of drug legalization

Unless we can convince them that their families will be slaughtered by the Mexican cartels. That's the only chance we got.

[disneyspy]

if its just american weed grown by american farmers then i dont have a problem with it

[Contra]

Tripleskeet's last statement is the reason I gave the scenario I did. I completely agree.

[TheMojoPin]

While I have serious doubts that this is true, (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-henry-sterry/mexican-drug-lord-officia_b_179596.html) it's what guys like him might as well be saying:

Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Loera, the reported head of the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico, ranked 701st on Forbes' yearly report of the wealthiest men alive and worth an estimated $1 billion, today officially thanked United States politicians for making sure that drugs remain illegal. According to one of his closest confidants, he said, "I couldn't have gotten so stinking rich without George Bush, George Bush Jr., Ronald Reagan, even El Presidente Obama, none of them have the cajones to stand up to all the big money that wants to keep this stuff illegal. From the bottom of my heart, I want to say, Gracias amigos, I owe my whole empire to you."

I heard they also got him a nice sweater for his birthday.

[SatCam]

If we legalize weed Mexico will have to bailout its drug cartels

[RoseBlood]

link (http://hightimes.com/legal/ht_admin/5307)

Should we stop spending tax dollars arresting innocent potheads, and start taxing the potheads instead!!??

I say yes, I think it should be legal and taxed just like say alcohol..

What say you?

[led37zep]

Lets allow each state to set their own laws and regulation regarding Marijuana just like Alcohol.

fun right?

[Dougie Brootal]

dont tax it like alcohol, tax it like cigarettes!

[A.J.]

Will they be taxed as heavily as tobacco smokers?

[Aggie]

I don't think I even need to reply to this! :smoke:

[A.J.]

New York, NY: On April 15, better known as Tax Day, at 8:00 AM representatives and supporters of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML), including the organization's national director Allen St. Pierre, will stand on the steps of the General Post Office in Midtown Manhattan and present a check for $14 billion to the US Treasury Department.

April 20th would have been funnier.

[led37zep]

dont tax it like alcohol, tax it like cigarettes!

Look hippie, till you get your conservative haircut we're not going to take you seriously.

Friday around 7pm should be good enough for you to join this debate Dougie Flower Power.

[JerseyRich]

The problem I have with making it legal is that you can't test someone that's driving a car or a bus or a train(On the spot) to see if they are driving under the influence.

If they can figure that out, go ahead...we could use some more tax income!

[Contra]

Are you afraid they are going to hit a little girl on a bike while coming out of a drive through Rich? Ridiculous.

[led37zep]

The problem I have with making it legal is that you can't test someone that's driving a car or a bus or a train(On the spot) to see if they are driving under the influence.

If they can figure that out, go ahead...we could use some more tax income!

Ya there is.

http://www.fritolay.com/assets/images/fpo/Funyuns_Original.gif

[King Hippos Bandaid]

dude I was soo gonna pay my taxes on April 15

but we had a 2 hour rant on the word April, Ayy Prilll

[RoseBlood]

Will they be taxed as heavily as tobacco smokers?
I don't smoke but $10 bucks a pack is crazy.

April 20th would have been funnier.
Haha..

The problem I have with making it legal is that you can't test someone that's driving a car or a bus or a train(On the spot) to see if they are driving under the influence.

If they can figure that out, go ahead...we could use some more tax income!
Stop bringing logic and reason into my thread!

[JerseyRich]

Are you afraid they are going to hit a little girl on a bike while coming out of a drive through Rich? Ridiculous.


Yes...because that is the only thing that potheads do. :thumbdown:

[JerseyRich]

Stop bringing logic and reason into my thread!

Ok...drugs for everyone! We need more money!

[Aggie]

Yes...because that is the only thing that potheads do. :thumbdown:

That's all this pothead does. I just think the double standard of drinking is fine but weed isn't is ridiculous.

I have thought about your testing question though. I have no idea if this is possible but if you submit to a blood test wouldn't the THC amount be able to tell them anything? Even though it stays in your blood for up to a month wouldn't the amount of THC make a big difference?

Plus, there is no form of testing for all of the LEGAL prescription drugs that are just as bad or worse than weed.

[~Katja~]

The problem I have with making it legal is that you can't test someone that's driving a car or a bus or a train(On the spot) to see if they are driving under the influence.

If they can figure that out, go ahead...we could use some more tax income!


While I agree; you can also not test just how sleepy a driver is or how many too many prescription drugs (even when legal) a driver has taken... there are so many more things that can impair driving that are legal and not tested or immediately measurable.

[JerseyRich]

That's all this pothead does. I just think the double standard of drinking is fine but weed isn't is ridiculous.

I have thought about your testing question though. I have no idea if this is possible but if you submit to a blood test wouldn't the THC amount be able to tell them anything? Even though it stays in your blood for up to a month wouldn't the amount of THC make a big difference?

Plus, there is no form of testing for all of the LEGAL prescription drugs that are just as bad or worse than weed.

I hate to be picky here as well, but I've never had one drink and then been completely unable to function...

On the other hand, I've taken a puff of strong weed before and just been a complete mess for a couple hours.

I'm not sure that's an argument for anything. Perhaps just a personal story. :drunk:

[Aggie]

I hate to be picky here as well, but I've never had one drink and then been completely unable to function...

On the other hand, I've taken a puff of strong weed before and just been a complete mess for a couple hours.

I'm not sure that's an argument for anything. Perhaps just a personal story. :drunk:

It just means you're a lightweight. Someone who never drinks can take a shot and be f'd up. It's all relative.

[JerseyRich]

It just means you're a lightweight. Someone who never drinks can take a shot and be f'd up. It's all relative.


Fair enough. Let's get fucked up.

[~Katja~]

I hate to be picky here as well, but I've never had one drink and then been completely unable to function...

On the other hand, I've taken a puff of strong weed before and just been a complete mess for a couple hours.

I'm not sure that's an argument for anything. Perhaps just a personal story. :drunk:

Based on this statement marijuana has a much greater immediate effect on you than alcohol and leaves you temporarily incapable of driving a car... and most likely people that experience it in that way are not the ones to be found out on the streets driving.

I think the combination of alcohol and smoking and then driving at a later point when the effects of the pot have worn of a bit and leave you physically able to drive, are a much greater risks cause the impairment from alcohol lasts even longer... (of course it depends on how much you smoked in combination...)

And there are Oral (saliva)Tests that show Marijuana use within the past 24h... so if they were to use them for people that appear to be impaired by it and get a positive hit they could still send them to further testing.

[JerseyRich]

Based on this statement marijuana has a much greater immediate effect on you than alcohol and leaves you temporarily incapable of driving a car... and most likely people that experience it in that way are not the ones to be found out on the streets driving.

I think the combination of alcohol and smoking and then driving at a later point when the effects of the pot have worn of a bit and leave you physically able to drive, are a much greater risks cause the impairment from alcohol lasts even longer... (of course it depends on how much you smoked in combination...)

And there are Oral (saliva)Tests that show Marijuana use within the past 24h... so if they were to use them for people that appear to be impaired by it and get a positive hit they could still send them to further testing.


Ah ha! Thank you Dr. Kat!

[~Katja~]

Ah ha! Thank you Dr. Kat!

I am just talking out of my ass here... I am trying to get to 10k in a rush... it's like my lil' tax free high

[KatPw]

The problem I have with making it legal is that you can't test someone that's driving a car or a bus or a train(On the spot) to see if they are driving under the influence.

If they can figure that out, go ahead...we could use some more tax income!

There is no test that can tell (on the spot) if someone is driving under the influence of Oxycontin either, and I have a good feeling that there are plenty of people driving around under that drug's influence.

[joeyballsack]

1. How are you going to tax the guy that has three or four plants in his house and only grows for his own consumption ?

2. You might be able to smoke pot legally, but are you going to be able to keep a job that requires drug testing ?

I would love pot to be legalized as I would smoke pretty much every day, but I just dont see it happening any time soon.

[KatPw]

1. How are you going to tax the guy that has three or four plants in his house and only grows for his own consumption ?

2. You might be able to smoke pot legally, but are you going to be able to keep a job that requires drug testing ?

I would love pot to be legalized as I would smoke pretty much every day, but I just dont see it happening any time soon.

1. How do they currently tax people that brew their own beer and ferment their own wine? Growing cannabis is a bit more complicated than throwing some seeds out your back door. All that will get you is ditch weed.

2. How do they currently test people for alcohol use and prescription drug abuse? I think that drug testing for jobs would end.

[epo]

AP Newsbreak: New medical marijuana policy issued (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9mnrkJu2S7Mly9xuWs4p9_TRkdwD9BDT0701)

The Obama administration will not seek to arrest medical marijuana users and suppliers as long as they conform to state laws, under new policy guidelines to be sent to federal prosecutors Monday.

Two Justice Department officials described the new policy to The Associated Press, saying prosecutors will be told it is not a good use of their time to arrest people who use or provide medical marijuana in strict compliance with state laws.

The new policy is a significant departure from the Bush administration, which insisted it would continue to enforce federal anti-pot laws regardless of state codes.

Obviously the President thinks the current marijuana laws are stupid too.

[keithy_19]

AP Newsbreak: New medical marijuana policy issued (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9mnrkJu2S7Mly9xuWs4p9_TRkdwD9BDT0701)



Obviously the President thinks the current marijuana laws are stupid too.

Makes sense. I've always gotten my pot from a....

:thumbdown:

[epo]

Makes sense. I've always gotten my pot from a....

:thumbdown:

You have a problem with this ruling?

[keithy_19]

You have a problem with this ruling?

Not at all. My thumbs down was at my 'joke'.

To me this shows the federal government respecting the states. 100% for it.

[SatCam]

Makes sense. I've always gotten my pot from a....

:thumbdown:

an elected official?
a president?
a dude from chi town?


please explain i dont know where you were going with that

[keithy_19]

an elected official?
a president?
a dude from chi town?


please explain i dont know where you were going with that

Bingo.

[landarch]

The problem I have with making it legal is that you can't test someone that's driving a car or a bus or a train(On the spot) to see if they are driving under the influence.

If they can figure that out, go ahead...we could use some more tax income!

Next time I'll read the thread first......

[landarch]

AP Newsbreak: New medical marijuana policy issued (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9mnrkJu2S7Mly9xuWs4p9_TRkdwD9BDT0701)



Obviously the President thinks the current marijuana laws are stupid too.


I think the President thinks a lot about this country is stupid. That's one more reason to like him.
I hope that in time he can continue to stand up against some of this shit. Can't wait to see what a second term might look like.

[sailor]

and ending prohibition destroyed the mob.

[TheMojoPin]

and ending prohibition destroyed the mob.

This ranks up there as one of the dumbest things you've ever posted.

[TripleSkeet]

This ranks up there as one of the dumbest things you've ever posted.

Im not 100% sure, but I think that was sarcasm.

[TheMojoPin]

It was, but since it was sailor such things can never be said enough.

YOU'LL PAY BIG, SAILOR.

[KatPw]

Ending alcohol prohibition may not have gotten rid of the mob completely but it certainly helped to minimize their impact on society.

[sailor]

Im not 100% sure, but I think that was sarcasm.

yes, i was saying the solution was a bit simplistic and criminals are drawn to criminal activities. legalize pot and they'll find another crime to make money from. they're not going to all decide to become auto-mechanics if this is taken away from them.

mind you, i'm not opposed to the pot legalization idea, i just don't see this being the reason that will get it accomplished.

[JohnCharles]

Gotta have drugs.

[yojimbo7248]

pot is getting close to being legal in California. all it takes is an exaggerated case of panic attacks, a prescription, and you are off to get state sanctioned pot.

the people who get their panties in a twist about the evils of marijuana are either dying off or marginalizing themselves in their southern and midwestern christian communities. the upcoming generation, even the conservatives, either have tried it or don't really give a shit. I think pot will be legalized across the country sooner than most people are guessing.

[SatCam]

yes, i was saying the solution was a bit simplistic and criminals are drawn to criminal activities. legalize pot and they'll find another crime to make money from. they're not going to all decide to become auto-mechanics if this is taken away from them.

mind you, i'm not opposed to the pot legalization idea, i just don't see this being the reason that will get it accomplished.

people who smoke pot arent criminals. but theyre lives can get pretty fucked up if they get in trouble with the law for something as simple posession......... what obama did had no effect on how dealers are dealt with. dealers are criminals. pot smokers are not

[Thomas Merton]

But Sat, to follow your logic and I agree, dealers would not be criminals either if weed was legal. The government would be the dealer, smokers would smoke like drinkers drink with the benefits and consequences if they fuck up and drive, abuse, etc

Don't we have the inherent right to the pursuit of happiness? :tongue:

[sailor]

people who smoke pot arent criminals. but theyre lives can get pretty fucked up if they get in trouble with the law for something as simple posession......... what obama did had no effect on how dealers are dealt with. dealers are criminals. pot smokers are not

the whole thread was about the mexican drug cartels and the havoc they are wreaking. you are so off topic on this and talking up some tangential point.

i said nothing about users or anything obama has already done. we were speaking about legalizing pot to end the reign of terror of the mexican cartels.

[KatPw]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-marijuana-ama11-2009nov11,0,3003312.story?track=rss
Summary:
The American Medical Assn. on Tuesday urged the federal government to reconsider its classification of marijuana as a dangerous drug with no accepted medical use, a significant shift that puts the prestigious group behind calls for more research.

Hopefully this will be a step in the right direction.

[high fly]

yes, i was saying the solution was a bit simplistic and criminals are drawn to criminal activities. legalize pot and they'll find another crime to make money from. they're not going to all decide to become auto-mechanics if this is taken away from them.

mind you, i'm not opposed to the pot legalization idea, i just don't see this being the reason that will get it accomplished.


B-b-b-b-but if their only "crime" is they smoke pot, then they aren't really the stereotypical criminal you imagine, right?

[high fly]

link (http://hightimes.com/legal/ht_admin/5307)

Should we stop spending tax dollars arresting innocent potheads, and start taxing the potheads instead!!??

I say yes, I think it should be legal and taxed just like say alcohol..

What say you?


I say to get anywhere we gotta stop calling it dope and call it "smart" or something like that so it doesn't sound so bad...........

[sailor]

B-b-b-b-but if their only "crime" is they smoke pot, then they aren't really the stereotypical criminal you imagine, right?

again, we were discussing the mexican drug cartels, not users, silly.

[hanso]

As I'm sure most of you know, the "drug war" in Mexico has been out of control there. The military is actively battling with cartels, and the murders and kidnappings are spilling over the border into the US.

While many pundits are quick to jump to ye olde "seal off the border" rhetoric, present attitudes towards the War on Drugs would likely entail an indefinite military occupation of the border and of parts of Mexico itself.

What potenially raises the idea of drug legalization is that these cartels are marijuana cartels.

It's estimated that these cartels make 65-70% of their profits off of the growth, processing, smuggling and sale of marijuana. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/mexican.drug.war/index.html)

Sodoes this open up a path for the serious discussion of the legalization or extensive national decriminalization of marijuana?

These cartels are doing almost all of their business "with" the US. If we move towards legalization, they're stripped of their primary mean of income. They eventully lose most of the money they need to hire guys willing to fight and kidnap for them, to buy weapons and vehicles, to spread around for bribes and legal/political protection, etc..

These cartels are hinged on one cash crop. You strip them off that crop, boom, they'll eventually splinter and fall apart. They can't just stop on a dime and switch to other drugs because of a variety of reasons: whether or not they can grow or get the necessary crops, whether they have the means to process or make drugs and, most critically, other cartels elsewhere have control of them. They won't hae the source of income to fight other cartels.

Obviously, this isn't a cure-all that magically rids us and Mexico of crime, but it seems ike something tha seriously needs to be considered as it would arguably destroy these cartels and their ability to do what they're doing now.

Here's a good recent editorial that sums of the benefits of legalization in the face of what's going on down south. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/miron.legalization.drugs/index.html)

What say you?

Is it time to free the weed?

Why not throw hookers into the mix?

[keithy_19]

Why not throw hookers into the mix?

I actually agree that prostituion should be legal.

[Jughead]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33927239/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

[epo]

Marijuana legalization will be on California ballot (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62O08U20100325)

A California voter initiative that would legalize possession and sale of marijuana has qualified for the November ballot, state election officials said on Wednesday, in what supporters called a "watershed moment" for their cause.

Here it comes!

[keithy_19]

Marijuana legalization will be on California ballot (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62O08U20100325)



Here it comes!

It won't matter if federal standards stay the same.

[PapaBear]

It won't matter if federal standards stay the same.
That's what they said when states started legalizing medical marijuana. But now the Federal government no longer prosecutes for it. The same change could happen with this.

[Chigworthy]

That's what they said when states started legalizing medical marijuana. But now the Federal government no longer prosecutes for it. The same change could happen with this.

That's not really true, at least in CA. You will still end up in front of a federal magistrate if you get caught on federal land with it, even with a recommendation. But it's always been state and local agencies that were doing the majority of the prosecution for personal use cases anyway. It is very true that local DA's in CA almost always drop small possession charges, even for those caught without a recommendation. But these local agencies still have units dedicated to marijuana enforcement, it's just that now they are learning and operating under the new rules, and focusing on enforcement of laws not governed under prop 215, such as abuses of the medicinal laws and stuff that has always been illegal, i.e. possession for sale, etc.

[PapaBear]

That's not really true, at least in CA. You will still end up in front of a federal magistrate if you get caught on federal land with it, even with a recommendation. But it's always been state and local agencies that were doing the majority of the prosecution for personal use cases anyway. It is very true that local DA's in CA almost always drop small possession charges, even for those caught without a recommendation. But these local agencies still have units dedicated to marijuana enforcement, it's just that now they are learning and operating under the new rules, and focusing on enforcement of laws not governed under prop 215, such as abuses of the medicinal laws and stuff that has always been illegal, i.e. possession for sale, etc.
Didn't Obama recently direct the Feds not to pursue charges in states that have legalized medical marijuana?

Edit: Holder did it.

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. directed federal prosecutors Monday to back away from pursuing cases against medical marijuana patients, signaling a broad policy shift that drug reform advocates interpret as the first step toward legalization of the drug.
The government's top lawyer said that in 14 states with some provisions for medical marijuana use, federal prosecutors should focus only on cases involving higher-level drug traffickers, money launderers or people who use the state laws as a cover.

[Chigworthy]

Didn't Obama recently direct the Feds not to pursue charges in states that have legalized medical marijuana?

Only if the person is complying with the medical marijuana laws.

[PapaBear]

Only if the person is complying with the medical marijuana laws.
But that was my initial point. It shows the Feds can eventually change their stance. If it becomes legal for non medical purposes, the same thing could eventually happen.

[keithy_19]

That's what they said when states started legalizing medical marijuana. But now the Federal government no longer prosecutes for it. The same change could happen with this.

I hope so. I don't really care for marijuana, but let people do what they want. Doesn't affect me.

[StanUpshaw]

It would certainly be an interesting turn of events if California, of all places, is where the push for revitalization of states' rights begins.

[hanso]

It would certainly be an interesting turn of events if California, of all places, is where the push for revitalization of states' rights begins.

I read in the paper folks in the north (humbolt) say they will loose money in sales if it passes.