Southern Succession...

[topless_mike]

Looking back at it, what if we just let the south succede like they wanted to?
Really, what has the south done for us that was equvilent to all that the country went through during those years?

If we let them go, mexico would be their problem, hurricanes, etc.

yes? no?

[Whiskeyportal]

And we'd have hardly any oil of our own, and mexicans.

[Dave's Cackle]

Florida is fun for spring break and spring training. Come to think of it, we should own the south from February through April.

[disneyspy]

oil,fried chicken,the dallas cowboys all those miss texas that became miss americas,southern bells with the way they talk,oranges,mardi gras,bill clinton,cotton jeans,fez whatley,the beaches...

[JerseyRich]

It's Secession...

[TheMojoPin]

I've got a better historical what if...what would have been the harm is Germany was victorious in Europe in WWI? So they conquer France and Belgium and Luxembourg. Sorry guys, but there's a pretty good chance there would have been no Nazis had Germany won.

[razorboy]

It's Secession...

Looking back at it, what if we just let the south secede like they wanted to?

At least them there Yankees can spell good, dagnabbit.

[ANC]

In a word...........

Koolickle

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/vel05/uploaded_images/koolickle-714517.jpg

[topless_mike]

It's Secession...

thank you grammar nazi.

[disneyspy]

what if baby superman crash landed in germany?

[EliSnow]

I've got a better historical what if...what would have been the harm is Germany was victorious in Europe in WWI? So they conquer France and Belgium and Luxembourg. Sorry guys, but there's a pretty good chance there would have been no Nazis had Germany won.

Pretty good chance? Probably an incredibly great chance.

But the USSR may have been much stronger. Or not, if they don't get their hands on the german scientists at the end of WWII.

[yojimbo7248]

I've got a better historical what if...what would have been the harm is Germany was victorious in Europe in WWI? So they conquer France and Belgium and Luxembourg. Sorry guys, but there's a pretty good chance there would have been no Nazis had Germany won.

Don't most people see WWI as a tragedy without the same clear-cut good guys/bad guys as WWII? I just remember reading All Quiet in the Western Front in high school and our teacher and all of us having a lot of sympathy for the German soldiers. Later we read Barbara Tuchman in first year in college and saw WWI as a consequence of how fragile Bismarck's balance of power was.

I just don't know anyone who gets riled up hating the Kaiser's troops as we all do with the Nazis.

[TheMojoPin]

Pretty good chance? Probably an incredibly great chance.

But the USSR may have been much stronger. Or not, if they don't get their hands on the german scientists at the end of WWII.

They also don't have all the Eastern European nations they grab at the end of WW2.

[EliSnow]

what if baby superman crash landed in germany?

He'd be Overman from Earth - 10: (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Kal-L_(Earth-10))

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/5/50/Overman_%28Earth-10%29_001.png

[WampusCrandle]

i believe that if the South and the North were two completely different nations, the beginning would have been pretty bad. all the money was being made in the South, which is probably where all the wealthy would be now (if they successfully succeeded)

[TheMojoPin]

Don't most people see WWI as a tragedy without the same clear-cut good guys/bad guys as WWII? I just remember reading All Quiet in the Western Front in high school and our teacher and all of us having a lot of sympathy for the German soldiers. Later we read Barbara Tuchman in first year in college and saw WWI as a consequence of how fragile Bismarck's balance of power was.

I just don't know anyone who gets riled up hating the Kaiser's troops as we all do with the Nazis.

Yeah, it was much more of a "classic" European War in that everyone was arguably to blame.

[EliSnow]

They also don't have all the Eastern European nations they grab at the end of WW2.

Well, unless there would be a different WWII. This time between USSR and Germany, with other countries taking sides. France would side with USSR. The US may not be in it..

[Aggie]

This is why I moved to Texas.

http://www.chewingthecud.org/tn_Steak_in_fork1.jpg

[ANC]

This is why I moved to Texas.

http://www.chewingthecud.org/tn_Steak_in_fork1.jpg

They didn't have forks where you grew up?

[razorboy]

This is why I moved to Texas.

http://www.chewingthecud.org/tn_Steak_in_fork1.jpg

I lived in Austin for a year and the only thing worth eating was the Mexi-Kraut.

[Aggie]

They didn't have forks where you grew up?

Nope. Central Jersey is an uncivilized land.

[EliSnow]

i believe that if the South and the North were two completely different nations, the beginning would have been pretty bad. all the money was being made in the South, which is probably where all the wealthy would be now (if they successfully succeeded)

It was? Wasn't most of the industry in the North?

[ANC]

Nope. Central Jersey is an uncivilized land.

true... yet I can't seem to escape it.

[Aggie]

It was? Wasn't most of the industry in the North?

Not the cotton fields.

[MisterSmith]

thank you grammar nazi.

Would there have been Grammar Nazis if Germany had won WWI?

[disneyspy]

Would there have been Grammar Nazis if Germany had won WWI?

i had a gramma nancy

[TheMojoPin]

Not the cotton fields.

That's not industrial.

[WampusCrandle]

It was? Wasn't most of the industry in the North?

Not the cotton fields.

yeah, sorry, i should have been more clear - thanks Aggie.

[TheMojoPin]

i believe that if the South and the North were two completely different nations, the beginning would have been pretty bad. all the money was being made in the South, which is probably where all the wealthy would be now (if they successfully succeeded)

Both sides would have been up shit's creek for awhile, thought the North arguably had better means for survival. The South was not geared for the Industrial Revolution at all. The North would have been without the South's cash crops, but was in a much better position to mobilize and claim the rest of the country.

[EliSnow]

Not the cotton fields.

That I know, but industrial countries make more money than agrarian countries. Yes, the South was wealthy from cotton, but industry was making the North more and more money as the late 1800's progressed.

[WampusCrandle]

Both sides would have been up shit's creek for awhile, thought the North arguably had better means for survival. The South was not geared for the Industrial Revolution at all. The North would have been without the South's cash crops, but was in a much better position to mobilize and claim the rest of the country.

from my understanding, the South was not very keen on modernizing. in the end, they probably wouldn't do that well.

[EliSnow]

And again, it's secede and seceded. Not succeed and succeeded.

[topless_mike]

And again, it's secede and seceded. Not succeed and succeeded.



i know i know.
jesus. dont have to rub it in.

[disneyspy]

And again, it's secede and seceded. Not succeed and succeeded.



well of course the south woulda succeeded,its in the title. the north woulda been flooded with unskilled blacks,and paid heavily for the texas oil,the souths agrarian lifestlye woulda been slower paced but more complete than the norths

[EliSnow]

i know i know.
jesus. dont have to rub it in.

My comment wasn't directed at you. Someone else corrected your use. And then another person made the same mistake after the first correction.

[Whiskeyportal]

I'm sure Mexico would have taken them over and then we would have kicked "mexican't hold on to their land's" ass and taken it back and in the process alot of future inbred redneck's would have been killed and we would have repopulated the south with good northern blood and the world would have been a wonderful place.:drunk:

[Dell]

And again, it's secede and seceded. Not succeed and succeeded.



So... the south did not succeed at seceding... got it...

[underdog]

from my understanding, the South was not very keen on modernizing. in the end, they probably wouldn't do that well.

The South still isn't very keen on modernizing.

[disneyspy]

first of all the title says the south succeeded,which means they didnt hold back when they were kickin our asses and took the capitol,we were the souths bitch. and besides,texas had already kicked the shit out of mexico(the alamo really didnt mean squat) and joined the union as an independent state,remember the texas rangers never lost a single battle in the civil war and were the model for the calvary and present day calvary. we would be doin what the south told us to do so go with the flow my lessers

[topless_mike]

My comment wasn't directed at you. Someone else corrected your use. And then another person made the same mistake after the first correction.

can you phix it then?
thanks !

[razorboy]

The South still isn't very keen on modernizing.

Says the man in Boston.

[Dell]

The South still isn't very keen on modernizing.

Heck! We just got one of those newfangled car washes that clean your car without you even getting out of it! Modernizing indeed!

[epo]

I can't wait for the South to attempt to secede again. This time we'll burn Atlanta AND let them free to their own demise.

[razorboy]

I can't wait for the South to attempt to secede again. This time we'll burn Atlanta AND let them free to their own demise.

Still pissed they took your team, huh?

[FezsAssistant]

An awfully boring movie was made about this. Ron interviewed them a while back. The Confederate States of America?

[britneypablo]

<font color="deeppink"> I have sworn off making terrible racist remarks on the board...but by GOSH you opened up a can full of beans on a fire in my little ol heart

[Farmer Dave]

<font color="deeppink"> I have sworn off making terrible racist remarks on the board...but by GOSH you opened up a can full of beans on a fire in my little ol heart

let 'em have it Miss Britney. Seems to be some of that NE arrogance going on.

[cougarjake13]

Still pissed they took your team, huh?

what team is that ??

[cougarjake13]

ive always been meaning to read this but never get around to it



http://www.booksale.com.ph/feb_books%2704/kantor_south.JPG

[razorboy]

what team is that ??

Da Braves.

[dozerking]

Looking back at it, what if we just let the south succede like they wanted to?
Really, what has the south done for us that was equvilent to all that the country went through during those years?

If we let them go, mexico would be their problem, hurricanes, etc.

yes? no?

great point..although, we'd still have to fight the "sister fuckers" for rights to vacation in Florida.

All the south has given us is bible thumping conservatives and horrid country music- fuck that

oh, but then again, Weird Medicine is the shit

[SP1!]

I'm sure Mexico would have taken them over and then we would have kicked "mexican't hold on to their land's" ass and taken it back and in the process alot of future inbred redneck's would have been killed and we would have repopulated the south with good northern blood and the world would have been a wonderful place.:drunk:
Yeah I wouldnt say that so fast
http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg297/scaled.php?server=297&filename=guidos1.png&xsize=640&ysize=480

I can't wait for the South to attempt to secede again. This time we'll burn Atlanta AND let them free to their own demise.
Yeah, thats not really a threat right now. We may actually hand you the matches to burn atlanta, that place is a shit hole now.

Oh and they wouldnt have modern air conditioning either since it was invented in north carolina, you sweaty mofos!

[dozerking]

well of course the south woulda succeeded,its in the title. the north woulda been flooded with unskilled blacks,and paid heavily for the texas oil,the souths agrarian lifestlye woulda been slower paced but more complete than the norths

lol..BS, they would have collapsed without the North's Industry of the 20th century. It's what drove this Country forward. You have to be blind ass motherfucker not to realize this. And not to mention, the Southern states are all in deficits to the Northern states, HEAVILY relying on Federal money(Money stolen from Northern states) from the States of the North for generations, just to get by on ends meet. Take a look at any modern statistics just to see how far behind Southern states are in education, wealth accumulation, business, healthcare, science research, blah blah blah it's pathetic really.

[SP1!]

lol..BS, they would have collapsed without the North's Industry of the 20th century. It's what drove this Country forward. You have to be blind ass motherfucker not to realize this. And not to mention, the Southern states are all in deficits to the Northern states, HEAVILY relying on Federal money(Money stolen from Northern states) from the States of the North for generations, just to get by on ends meet. Take a look at any modern statistics just to see how far behind Southern states are in education, wealth accumulation, business, healthcare, science research, blah blah blah it's pathetic really.
Yeah those stats are severely outdated and most of that money goes to mountain people in that range that stretches all the way up to maine, also the south has most of the largest ports on the east coast. If it wasnt for the port of detroit being established first then most of that industry would have been in the south since its climate would have been a lot more acceptable to industry.

Oh well the north always has these guys:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/t1sh7KfXw34&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/t1sh7KfXw34&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I see that edumacation thing is working out well for youse guys.

[TheMojoPin]

If it wasnt for the port of detroit being established first then most of that industry would have been in the south since its climate would have been a lot more acceptable to industry.

There's absolutely nothing in the history of the South that shows it was ever even close to catching up to the industrial North in the 19th Century or early 20th Century.

[underdog]

Says the man in Boston.

?

Yeah I wouldnt say that so fast
http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg297/scaled.php?server=297&filename=guidos1.png&xsize=640&ysize=480

Yeah, those guys are from Jersey. Anything south of Manhattan is the south.

[A.J.]

Really, what has the south done for us that was equvilent to all that the country went through during those years?

They gave us the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. That there is FUNNY!

[El Mudo]

Don't most people see WWI as a tragedy without the same clear-cut good guys/bad guys as WWII? I just remember reading All Quiet in the Western Front in high school and our teacher and all of us having a lot of sympathy for the German soldiers. Later we read Barbara Tuchman in first year in college and saw WWI as a consequence of how fragile Bismarck's balance of power was.

I just don't know anyone who gets riled up hating the Kaiser's troops as we all do with the Nazis.



Because we've all forgotten about them

Both sides would have been up shit's creek for awhile, thought the North arguably had better means for survival. The South was not geared for the Industrial Revolution at all. The North would have been without the South's cash crops, but was in a much better position to mobilize and claim the rest of the country.

The North had all the rail roads, most of the industry in the country, more people, and the most populous cities. It would have been interesting to see if the South could have survived on its own with a Jeffersonian Agricultural society model. I think though, eventually, there would have been a large scale revolt/revolution from the large number of poor whites reacting to the relatively small scale of rich planters, especially those poor whites that inhabited the mountainous areas (and were largely pro Union, and caused the South a TON of trouble during the war).

There's absolutely nothing in the history of the South that shows it was ever even close to catching up to the industrial North in the 19th Century or early 20th Century.


To piggy back on that, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts ALONE during the Civil War had as much rail road mileage as the entire South

[El Mudo]

Because we've all forgotten about them



The North had all the rail roads, most of the industry in the country, more people, and the most populous cities. It would have been interesting to see if the South could have survived on its own with a Jeffersonian Agricultural society model. I think though, eventually, there would have been a large scale revolt/revolution from the large number of poor whites reacting to the relatively small scale of rich planters, especially those poor whites that inhabited the mountainous areas (and were largely pro Union, and caused the South a TON of trouble during the war).




To piggy back on that, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts ALONE during the Civil War had as much rail road mileage as the entire South



Sorry...that should have read "industrial capacity" and not rail road mileage

[SP1!]

There's absolutely nothing in the history of the South that shows it was ever even close to catching up to the industrial North in the 19th Century or early 20th Century.
They were saying if the south had seceded, not what you perceive it would be like and just so you know the busiest ports in the US are in the south with NY/NJ dropping almost out of the top 20 now from where it used to be.

Also to think that the south wouldnt have caught up in a heartbeat on the industrial front is just crazy since they still had a lot of free or extremely cheap labor in slaves, that was the main point of the civil war, to stop the souths unfair trade practices trying to lure industry further south with free labor. Its kinda like how a shit load of northerners have moved south in the past 15 years because jobs arent as plentiful up north in quite a few states.

To piggy back on that, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts ALONE during the Civil War had as much rail road mileage as the entire South
We no shit, sherlock. The area with more population had more rail road tracks? Where there are more people there will be more industry but shit changes, just look at Detroit, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh.

[El Mudo]

They were saying if the south had seceded, not what you perceive it would be like and just so you know the busiest ports in the US are in the south with NY/NJ dropping almost out of the top 20 now from where it used to be.

Also to think that the south wouldnt have caught up in a heartbeat on the industrial front is just crazy since they still had a lot of free or extremely cheap labor in slaves, that was the main point of the civil war, to stop the souths unfair trade practices trying to lure industry further south with free labor. Its kinda like how a shit load of northerners have moved south in the past 15 years because jobs arent as plentiful up north in quite a few states.


We no shit, sherlock. The area with more population had more rail road tracks? Where there are more people there will be more industry but shit changes, just look at Detroit, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh.


Do you have ANY idea how the South was organized in the 1860s? It was an agrarian society based entirely on two cash crops (cotton and tobacco, which is why there's now statues to the Boll Weevil all over the South), ruled by a tiny class of elites, with a few scattered commercial centres that could barely even be called that (Richmond, Memphis, Charleston). How in the hell would that have all changed overnight into some super industrial society in terms of what the North had? That stuff takes DECADES to do (if you can even do it without triggering a massive revolution and/or drastic redistribution of wealth), and in this case, how would the rich planters have all become have become industrial barons overnight? Why would they ever give up their place in society? They had it made.

And where praytell, does this "cheap labour" come from? The slaves? Those are property of their owners, and are busy working with the cash crops. All you have left are the poor whites, and most of THEM are busy running their own little self sustaining farms so their family can have something to eat. And i'm not even bringing up the South's relatively tiny population as compared to the Norths.

The Industrial North had abundant supplies of cheap labour (thanks to European Immigration), and the plants in which to put them in, because the climate there was not conducive to being agrarian, again, which is something that took decades to hammer out and form.

[beachbum]

Well for one you pricks wouldn't have anywhere to retire to.

[Whiskeyportal]

Well for one you pricks wouldn't have anywhere to retire to.

there is a west coast you know

[boosterp]

lol..BS, they would have collapsed without the North's Industry of the 20th century. It's what drove this Country forward. You have to be blind ass motherfucker not to realize this. And not to mention, the Southern states are all in deficits to the Northern states, HEAVILY relying on Federal money(Money stolen from Northern states) from the States of the North for generations, just to get by on ends meet. Take a look at any modern statistics just to see how far behind Southern states are in education, wealth accumulation, business, healthcare, science research, blah blah blah it's pathetic really.

Personal attacks aside you sir are an idiot.

Texas is not in a deficit, we reduced our budget, did not take part of the stimulus plan, and we are still able to pay our state employees unlike California and New York.

Second, need I mention the Texas Medical Center in Houston? World famous and the world would be backwards in heart, lung, aneurysm, and stroke care if it was not for us. I should also list all the world leaders who come here for medical treatment, but you can look that up on your own.

I should name a couple more en light of you lack of knowledge. Soon to be the largest and busiest port in the nation, Houston. Which has also been in the top 3 for many years.

Large crops of citrus, corn, cotton, wood, and feed for animals. One of the largest suppliers of beef and pork, hmmmmm Texas again.

Oil, nation's largest suppler which may be overtaken by Alaska.

Once our own nation for 10 years.

There are several other things like electronics and such to mention but my fingers are getting tired.

[Freakshow]

there would be no Ron and Fez...

[underdog]

Texas is not in a deficit, we reduced our budget, did not take part of the stimulus plan, and we are still able to pay our state employees unlike California and New York.

Yeah, but you can make $17 a year and live in Texas comfortably.

[epo]

Once our own nation for 10 years.

I can't wait for Texas to claim their right to "secede" and then provoke the remaining 49.

[boosterp]

I can't wait for Texas to claim their right to "secede" and then provoke the remaining 49.

It's weird you say that; I got an email a while back from this Texas succession group looking for new members to join their group. We kept much of our Republic's constitution and when the deal was made to join the states an amendment was passed that would allow Texas to succeed if 51% or more of the people voted for it. I do not recall if there were ever enough signatures to get this cause on a ballot, but interesting none the less.

[beachbum]

I pray that you rubes secede from the nation.I've never met such unjustifiably self important people in my life as Texans.Why is it that people from texas think that because their state covers a large area that they are better than anyone else?Why is it that within one minute of meeting a texan they feel compelled to tell you that they are from texas?Why if you have all of this money don't you put some state law enforcment on the fucking border?Why do you all drive like ass holes?Why are you so proud of a state that you were accidentally born in?Why are you so proud of that state in particular?

Most of the state of texas should be fenced off and given back to Mexico it is a dirty barren waste land once you get 100 miles west of San Antonio.

[EliSnow]

"Secession" not succession.


Main Entry: se·ces·sion
Pronunciation: \si-ˈse-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin secession-, secessio, from secedere
Date: 1604
1 : withdrawal into privacy or solitude : retirement
2 : formal withdrawal from an organization

Main Entry: suc·ces·sion
Pronunciation: \sək-ˈse-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French or Latin; Anglo-French, from Latin succession-, successio, from succedere
Date: 14th century
1 a: the order in which or the conditions under which one person after another succeeds to a property, dignity, title, or throne b: the right of a person or line to succeed c: the line having such a right
2 a: the act or process of following in order : sequence b (1): the act or process of one person's taking the place of another in the enjoyment of or liability for rights or duties or both (2): the act or process of a person's becoming beneficially entitled to a property or property interest of a deceased person c: the continuance of corporate personality d: unidirectional change in the composition of an ecosystem as the available competing organisms and especially the plants respond to and modify the environment
3 a: a number of persons or things that follow each other in sequence b: a group, type, or series that succeeds or displaces another

Jesus, I feel like Liz here.

[boosterp]

I pray that you rubes secede from the nation.I've never met such unjustifiably self important people in my life as Texans.Why is it that people from texas think that because their state covers a large area that they are better than anyone else?Why is it that within one minute of meeting a texan they feel compelled to tell you that they are from texas?Why if you have all of this money don't you put some state law enforcment on the fucking border?Why do you all drive like ass holes?Why are you so proud of a state that you were accidentally born in?Why are you so proud of that state in particular?

Most of the state of texas should be fenced off and given back to Mexico it is a dirty barren waste land once you get 100 miles west of San Antonio.

Thank the federal laws for this.

Again, personal attacks aside despite your ignorance you should read and travel more. What's wrong with pride in your state, ever been to southern California, NY/NYC, Georgia, or Washington State? As for arrogance I think you need to look in the mirror based on your post, you will certainly find the definition there.

[EliSnow]

Thank the federal laws for this.

Again, personal attacks aside despite your ignorance you should read and travel more. What's wrong with pride in your state, ever been to southern California, NY/NYC, Georgia, or Washington State? As for arrogance I think you need to look in the mirror based on your post, you will certainly find the definition there.

Putting aside slams at Texas or Texans, you have to admit that Texans seem to take more pride in being from Texas, and letting people know it, than other persons from other states. Yes, New Yorkers do have arrogance, and may be second, but Texans do seem to talk bigger about their state than anyone else.

[Thebazile78]

Putting aside slams at Texas or Texans, you have to admit that Texans seem to take more pride in being from Texas, and letting people know it, than other persons from other states. Yes, New Yorkers do have arrogance, and may be second, but Texans do seem to talk bigger about their state than anyone else.

I think that's just because everything's bigger in Texas.

(Besides, there's nothing wrong with a little swagger. TX isn't so bad; my cowboy boots were made in TX.)

[Ritalin]

It's Secession...

thank you grammar nazi.

It's spelling, not grammar.

A Grammar Nazi goes like this: Try capitalizing the "t" and the "g" and "n" in Grammar Nazi, since that's a title and therefore a proper noun.

You're welcome.

[boosterp]

Putting aside slams at Texas or Texans, you have to admit that Texans seem to take more pride in being from Texas, and letting people know it, than other persons from other states. Yes, New Yorkers do have arrogance, and may be second, but Texans do seem to talk bigger about their state than anyone else.

I do recognize that and when I travel around the world and talk to people they are always fascinated by my being from Texas, except my relatives in Germany who have to point out that the disgraceful Bush is from (lives) here too. Most recently I met some people (in Mexico) from some where in Europe and and another other group of couples from Washington State named me "Tex." We'd meet for lunch or breakfast and they would always ask the silly questions such as if I rode a horse to school just for humor. But for 3 out of the 5 days I was there they were a hoot to party with; Yelling "Tex" across the resort when they saw me coming and such.

[underdog]

What's wrong with pride in your state

A lot. (http://ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75610&highlight=proud)

[boosterp]

A lot. (http://ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75610&highlight=proud)

I remember that thread.

[TheMojoPin]

Do you have ANY idea how the South was organized in the 1860s? It was an agrarian society based entirely on two cash crops (cotton and tobacco, which is why there's now statues to the Boll Weevil all over the South), ruled by a tiny class of elites, with a few scattered commercial centres that could barely even be called that (Richmond, Memphis, Charleston). How in the hell would that have all changed overnight into some super industrial society in terms of what the North had? That stuff takes DECADES to do (if you can even do it without triggering a massive revolution and/or drastic redistribution of wealth), and in this case, how would the rich planters have all become have become industrial barons overnight? Why would they ever give up their place in society? They had it made.

And where praytell, does this "cheap labour" come from? The slaves? Those are property of their owners, and are busy working with the cash crops. All you have left are the poor whites, and most of THEM are busy running their own little self sustaining farms so their family can have something to eat. And i'm not even bringing up the South's relatively tiny population as compared to the Norths.

The Industrial North had abundant supplies of cheap labour (thanks to European Immigration), and the plants in which to put them in, because the climate there was not conducive to being agrarian, again, which is something that took decades to hammer out and form.

Well said.

[boosterp]

Well said.

Houston/Galveston and New Orleans had ports and some industry even though the states they were in were mostly agrarian but the North's blockade during the Civil War nearly killed all that off. The south would not of survived after the war and would of been the equivalent of Mexico economically and technologically if not for rejoining the north.

[TheMojoPin]

Houston/Galveston and New Orleans had ports and some industry even though the states they were in were mostly agrarian but the North's blockade during the Civil War nearly killed all that off.

Yeah, and the Emancipation Proclamation just made it even worse. Even though it didn't actually free a single slave, it worked brilliantly in its primary purpose which was to convince the French and the British to not support the South.

[EliSnow]

Yeah, and the Emancipation Proclamation just made it even worse. Even though it didn't actually free a single slave, it worked brilliantly in its primary purpose which was to convince the French and the British to not support the South.

I've read that, even without the Emancipation Proclamation, the French and British were not likely to support the South because the Europe actually had a cotton surplus due to getting cotton from Egypt. Meanwhile, they really need corn shipments from the North.

The Proclamation sealed the deal definitely, but it's questionable that they would have gotten involved without it.

[TheMojoPin]

I've read that, even without the Emancipation Proclamation, the French and British were not likely to support the South because the Europe actually had a cotton surplus due to getting cotton from Egypt. Meanwhile, they really need corn shipments from the North.

The Proclamation sealed the deal definitely, but it's questionable that they would have gotten involved without it.

Definitely, but it was up in the air as to who they would side with and Lincoln knew that he had to lock it down for the North. If the British backed the South, boom, the North loses, no question.