Violence-Plagued Mexico Sees Hope in U.S. Border Plan

[S0S]

Violence-plagued Mexico sees hope in U.S. border plan (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2437974720090325)

Why is there so much violence?


MojoPin started a thread about legalizing drugs:
Are we going to see serious drug legalization talk soon? (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79021)

[Aggie]

"This is what we have wanted for so long. People can leave their houses again," said taco seller Andres Balderas in Ciudad Juarez, the bloodiest flashpoint in Mexico's drug war. Cartel violence has killed 2,000 people in the city in the past year.

"They should have done it a long time ago, given they are responsible for this drug demand and violence," he added.



So now the Americans are to blame for the violence. Right.

[TheMojoPin]

So now the Americans are to blame for the violence. Right.

While it's not right to "blame" Americans for the violence, it's pretty unavoidable to recognize that these cartels are making almost all of their money from drugs sales in the US. That's why I wish the legalization issue had more steam because we really could totally cripple those cartels (and make a hefty profit to help fund all of this spending the government neds to do) if we could grow and sell our own marijuana.

And while tighter border security is necessary and while cut down on border violence and crime, it ignores the larger ongoing problem. Mexico is in real danger of becoming a narcostate, and if it does it could very realistically lead to the US fighting a longterm war with our neighbors to the south. Sealing off the border simply will not stop the flow of drugs and money back and forth between the Mexican cartels and the US.

[topless_mike]

"This is what we have wanted for so long. People can leave their houses again," said taco seller Andres Balderas in Ciudad Juarez, the bloodiest flashpoint in Mexico's drug war. Cartel violence has killed 2,000 people in the city in the past year.

"They should have done it a long time ago, given they are responsible for this drug demand and violence," he added.


So now the Americans are to blame for the violence. Right.


the people should have fought back.
lazy fucks.

[booster11373]

90% of the guns used in Mexico are from the good ole US of A

[topless_mike]

While it's not right to "blame" Americans for the violence, it's pretty unavoidable to recognize that these cartels are making almost all of their money from drugs sales in the US. That's why I wish the legalization issue had more steam because we really could totally cripple those cartels (and make a hefty profit to help fund all of this spending the government neds to do) if we could grow and sell our own marijuana.

sounds ludicrous, but i think it would work.
i dont know, however, if mx is the source for all the weed. i would think they would be in stronger stuff.

[TheMojoPin]

90% of the guns used in Mexico are from the good ole US of A

And because of that the cartels very literally outgun the Mexican police and military.

Again, this isn't saying that America is actively to blame here, but we need to recognize the reality and severity of the problem and look to longterm solutions that will strip these cartels of their money.

[Aggie]

Apparently it IS our fault according to Clinton:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE52O5RF20090325?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

I understand your point Mojo, wasn't saying we are blameless. That guy's comment just surprised me, sounded like we are to take all the blame.

[TheMojoPin]

sounds ludicrous, but i think it would work.
i dont know, however, if mx is the source for all the weed. i would think they would be in stronger stuff.

Why does it sound ludicrous?

Is it anymore ludicrous than scores of people being murdered over pot? Or a war eventualy starting because of it?

And Mexico isn't the source of "all the weed." These particular cartels make up to 75% of their money off of marijuana smuggling and sales in the US.

[TheMojoPin]

Apparently it IS our fault according to Clinton:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE52O5RF20090325?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

I understand your point Mojo, wasn't saying we are blameless. That guy's comment just surprised me, sounded like we are to take all the blame.

I think he would have been better off saying that we have the power to make the real changes in this situation. The ball is pretty much totally in the US' court.

[TheMojoPin]

the people should have fought back.
lazy fucks.

I'm guessing you're joking.

[topless_mike]

I think he would have been better off saying that we have the power to make the real changes in this situation. The ball is pretty much totally in the US' court.

you wasted # 40k on this?

[topless_mike]

I'm guessing you're joking.

no, im not.
i know a couple of guys that it worked for against the british.

[TheMojoPin]

no, im not.
i know a couple of guys that it worked for against the british.

Now THAT'S ludicrous.

These cartels have more money and better weapons than the Mexican police and military. How are "the people" supposed to fight back against that?

Though the American revolutionaries clearly faced a stronger foe in Britain, the British were hindered by the slow transportation between Europe and the colonies and other, much larger wars they were fighting at the time. The revolutionaries and the British were essentially fighting on the same level in terms of weapons, while the colonists had the advantage of knowing the lay of the land and such far better than the British and they had numerous wealthy revolutionaries backing the whole thing. To compare those circumstances and that conext to what the average Mexican faces today is totally unrealistic.

[scottinnj]

Apparently it IS our fault according to Clinton:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE52O5RF20090325?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

I understand your point Mojo, wasn't saying we are blameless. That guy's comment just surprised me, sounded like we are to take all the blame.

Here's what caught my eye in that article:
"Our insatiable demand for illegal drugs fuels the drug trade. Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the death of police officers, soldiers and civilians," Clinton said. "I feel very strongly we have a co-responsibility."

What I am afraid of because this is Mrs. Clinton saying this as Secretary of State, is that she has no desire to strengthen law enforcement along the border. Instead, she will use this tragedy in Mexico to get support for a re-enactment of the assault weapons ban here in the United States, which while impeding on lawful citizen's 2nd Amendment rights, will do very little to curb the violence in Mexico.

But unfortunately, even if the flow of guns from the USA to Mexico is able to be curbed, that won't stop the cartels from getting them from other sources. Venezuela about a year and a half ago, using money gained from the 140 dollar a barrel oil revenues, purchased 2 million AK-47s from Russia and the patent rights to manufacture more of them in country. Chavez is not shy about his plans on disrupting the democratic governments in the southern hemisphere, and I don't think he'd balk at selling these weapons to the cartels in order for them to do his dirty work.

Fortunately, for pro-2nd Amendment activists, it seems the Congress is not on board with the Administration's plans to reinstate the assault weapons ban:
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008918448_mexguns25.html?syndication=rss)
With related kidnappings and killings occurring in the United States, the White House announced Tuesday plans to shift dozens of enforcement agents and step up gun- and drug-smuggling prosecutions in the fight against Mexican drug cartels.

Yet when Attorney General Eric Holder suggested last month reinstituting a U.S. ban on the sale of certain semi-automatic weapons, many lawmakers balked. The 1994 ban expired after 10 years.

For his part, Obama has signaled a willingness to tighten restrictions on guns, calling the flow of drug money and guns "a two-way situation." Yet 65 Democrats said in a letter to Holder that they would oppose any attempt by the administration to revive a ban on military-style weapons.

On this, the President and his administration have a different opinion then I do on a solution to help Mexico get the violence under control.

[conman823]

Yeah we definately do share a blame for these cartels. What we need is a stronger hand to pursue them with. Civil Rights Activists cry when we round up illegals and deport them, or Heaven forbid, find them guilty of crimes.
( For references Google Shariff Joe and see how they are persecuting this fuckin Awesome American.)

I believe there are people out there working hard to stop this, but far too few. More would be willing to help if they wouldn't be arrested at the first signs of "Civil Rights Violations" or "Brutality". Also a better funded border patrol and Coast Guard would help also.

Nah, on second thought lets ban assault guns, that will do it. Cause when some savage from a cartel comes across the border with gun it will magically vanish like it was fucking Hogwarts.

[beachbum]

The border wall would be effective for more than keeping migrant workers out.BTW,whether or not we smoke weed or do dope in this country does not make Mexicos problems our fault.If the Mexican government did any fucking thing over the last 30 years to stop this shit it wouldn't be happening.

Now this morning on CNN the Mexicans are blaming the U.S. for the violence in their country saying that the guns come from here.Go fuck yourself Mexico!!!!They get all hyper-pissed about the border whenever we bring it up but NOW they want to use the border issue to blame us for their problems?I tell ya what,we'll build a fifteen foot fence and you fuckers pay for half of it.

Why the hell would anyone try to smuggle stuff into Mexico from the U.S.?The rest of their country's borders(except for Guatemala where they have a heavy Mexican military presence to keep out the illegals) is like a sieve.