Tea Parties

[Drunky McBetidont]

So come on, I'm really dying to know, what is the over/under for the amount of people that participate in these tea parties?

less than smoke pot next monday or attend an earthday event next wednesday.

[epo]

For Glenn Beck's opinions and information about his program... Yes. I tend to think that people like him that put their thoughts and ideas out there for public consumption, tend to use their webspaces for that. If you want to know what he thinks and what he's saying, it's probably there.

So you are admitting that you require somebody else to process Beck's opinions for you and tell you what to think? I want that made clear.

Have I seen his show? A bit here and there. And yes...there is plenty of his material available for me to find (especially on youtube where he shows his CRAZY).

But at the end of the day, thats the difference between you and I...you think Glenn Beck has an opinion that is worth listening to.

[foodcourtdruide]

I don't know. I may bet on the over there. Look at how many people came out for Palin rallies. I'm going to imagine it's roughly the same type of crowd. I'd say, country-wide there are 35,000.

[epo]

I don't know. I may bet on the over there. Look at how many people came out for Palin rallies. I'm going to imagine it's roughly the same type of crowd. I'd say, country-wide there are 35,000.

From the view of things, they do appear to be the same crowd. Here is a YouTube from an event the teabaggers had in February:

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GNQUA0bI5b0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GNQUA0bI5b0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

[badmonkey]

So come on, I'm really dying to know, what is the over/under for the amount of people that participate in these tea parties?

Orlando 'Tea Party' rally draws more than 4,000 (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-locteaparty21032209mar22,0,426670.story)

[Drunky McBetidont]

I don't know. I may bet on the over there. Look at how many people came out for Palin rallies. I'm going to imagine it's roughly the same type of crowd. I'd say, country-wide there are 35,000.

did you mean 350,000? 35,000 is only half a stadium. i'd still take the under. based on 2008 research, it is estimated that 1.3 million americans smoke grass daily.

[epo]

So I have a question: What is the ultimate goal of these teabaggers? You know besides participating in an Astro-Turf event to create false outrage and remotivate the conversative base?

[Drunky McBetidont]

Orlando 'Tea Party' rally draws more than 4,000 (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-locteaparty21032209mar22,0,426670.story)

120,000 people showed up in orlando an easter sunday in 1994 for a show that had only 41,000 seats. grateful dead spring tour.

[DarkHippie]

So I have a question: What is the ultimate goal of these teabaggers? You know besides participating in an Astro-Turf event to create false outrage and remotivate the conversative base?

I think they are protesting the taxation of the colonies without representation in Parliment

[KnoxHarrington]

I think they are protesting the taxation of the colonies without representation in Parliment

I'm totally calling my senators and representative to tell them to vote against the Townshend Acts

[Drunky McBetidont]

I think they are protesting the taxation of the colonies without representation in Parliment

we would be better off if china recognized us as a province. we wouldn't have to pay back the debt.

[badmonkey]

From the view of things, they do appear to be the same crowd. Here is a YouTube from an event the teabaggers had in February:

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GNQUA0bI5b0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GNQUA0bI5b0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

The whole where's Obama's Birth Certificate crowd wackos and everybody knows it but them. Again... anti-govt protests always bring out people that are pissed at different areas of the govt. Sometimes they're down with the protest word for word in its entirety. Other times they just want the camera time that the protest brings.

It's like focusing on the one guy in the makeup, wigs, ass-less chaps and pink feathered boa at the gay pride parade and ignoring all the normal looking people wearing jeans and t-shirts walking all around him.

I get that it works better for your worldview to continue establishing these people as wackjobs, but that just "isn't based in reality."

So I have a question: What is the ultimate goal of these teabaggers? You know besides participating in an Astro-Turf event to create false outrage and remotivate the conversative base?

Did you read my post earlier or did you just jump on the links I posted and attack that instead?

[TheMojoPin]

The 9-12 Movement is fucking insane.

Beck says that he wants America to go back like it was on September 12th, 2001.

...

Any "unity" that we saw then was all based out of fear, sadness, panic, rage and confusion.

What a loon.

[DarkHippie]

I'm totally calling my senators and representative to tell them to vote against the Townshend Acts

I giggled like a girl getting her giney tickled

[foodcourtdruide]

Orlando 'Tea Party' rally draws more than 4,000 (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-locteaparty21032209mar22,0,426670.story)

"This is maybe the greatest single gathering of God-fearing patriots in the history of Orlando, Florida," local conservative radio host Bud Hedinger, who emceed the event, told the crowd.

Lol, what?

Hm, 4,000 is a good number. So would you say closer to 100,000 country-wide? It's hard to imagine more than that. I really think this is an event that appeals to the fringe.

[epo]

Did you read my post earlier or did you just jump on the links I posted and attack that instead?

So we're supposed to wake up and see these masses of Howard Beale-esque protesters and magically "wake-up" about our society?

That's the craziest shit ever.

[foodcourtdruide]

The 9-12 Movement is fucking insane.

Beck says that he wants America to go back like it was on September 12th, 2001.

...

Any "unity" that we saw then was all based out of fear, sadness, panic, rage and confusion.

What a loon.

Agreed. I don't think you have to be a nightly watcher of Beck's show to establish that the stuff he's saying is idiotic at best, and possibly insane.

[epo]

And to add a little visual about what a joke this Dick Armey created astro-turf "rising" is....here is a chart with the top tax rates in this nation since 1920:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/graph.jpg

And add into that thought the fact that 95% of americans got a tax cut as a part of a package that included that LARGEST TAX CUT in our nation's history under the current administration.

Carnies & Rubes my friends.....

[badmonkey]

The 9-12 Movement is fucking insane.

Beck says that he wants America to go back like it was on September 12th, 2001.

...

Any "unity" that we saw then was all based out of fear, sadness, panic, rage and confusion.

What a loon.

Agreed. I don't think you have to be a nightly watcher of Beck's show to establish that the stuff he's saying is idiotic at best, and possibly insane.

"The 9-12 Project is designed to bring us all back to the place we were on September 12, 2001. The day after America was attacked we were not obsessed with Red States, Blue States, or political parties. We were united as Americans, standing together to protect the values and principles of the greatest nation ever created."

Let's see if I can make it simpler:

Stop being so obsessed with Red States, Blue States, and political parties. Unite as Americans. Stand together to protect the values and principles of our country.

So we're supposed to wake up and see these masses of Howard Beale-esque protesters and magically "wake-up" about our society?

That's the craziest shit ever.

No more or less than any other protest that happens when it's organized by Internation A.N.S.W.E.R. is designed to magically "wake-up" anybody. Did you have that same odd view when the anti war protests were happening? I think my favorite is the calls from the left wing sites for them to get jobs because April 15th is a Wednesday and they should be at work.

[underdog]

Any "unity" that we saw then was all based out of fear, sadness, panic, rage and confusion.

That seems to be the government's way.

TERRORIST BEHIND YOU!

[badmonkey]

And to add a little visual about what a joke this Dick Armey created astro-turf "rising" is....here is a chart with the top tax rates in this nation since 1920:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/graph.jpg

And add into that thought the fact that 95% of americans got a tax cut as a part of a package that included that LARGEST TAX CUT in our nation's history under the current administration.

Carnies & Rubes my friends.....

That graph would make more sense if they were only protesting taxes or the Obama taxes specifically. It would also make sense if there weren't news reports every day about state and local taxes being raised to balance out their budgests. But since they're not protesting that specific issue, I'm having trouble deciding if you're a Carnie or if you're a Rube.

http://news.google.com/news?um=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=tax+increase
"Results 1 – 10 of about 54,803 for tax increase" in the last 24hrs
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/The_More_You_Know.jpg

I know... I know. You can't read up on the movement from the movement websites because understanding what they're pissed off about would make it harder to bash and make fun. Never ever let being informed get in the way of belittling people that disagree with you.

[TheMojoPin]

Let's see if I can make it simpler:

Stop being so obsessed with Red States, Blue States, and political parties. Unite as Americans. Stand together to protect the values and principles of our country.

So then it should be organized it as such. Intentionally referring to "9-12" is stupid fearmongering. "9-12" is just hysterical and intellectually dishonest garbage rhetoric.

Besides, why do we need to "unite as a country" right now? Our country has been divided by politics and social ideaologies since day one. It's kinda what we're all about.

[TheMojoPin]

That graph would make more sense if they were only protesting taxes or the Obama taxes specifically. It would also make sense if there weren't news reports every day about state and local taxes being raised to balance out their budgests. But since they're not protesting that specific issue, I'm having trouble deciding if you're a Carnie or if you're a Rube.

http://news.google.com/news?um=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=tax+increase
"Results 1 – 10 of about 54,803 for tax increase" in the last 24hrs
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/The_More_You_Know.jpg

I know... I know. You can't read up on the movement from the movement websites because understanding what they're pissed off about would make it harder to bash and make fun. Never ever let being informed get in the way of belittling people that disagree with you.

So then it comes to people not wanting to pay the taxes we need.

[foodcourtdruide]

Let's see if I can make it simpler:

Stop being so obsessed with Red States, Blue States, and political parties. Unite as Americans. Stand together to protect the values and principles of our country.


Those are really just slogans that don't mean anything.

[epo]

I know... I know. You can't read up on the movement from the movement websites because understanding what they're pissed off about would make it harder to bash and make fun. Never ever let being informed get in the way of belittling people that disagree with you.

So unless I read the 9-12 website I'm obviously a fool? Here is the problem...the 9-12 bullshit artists have 9 principles. Here is Principle #2 (http://www.the912project.com/)directly from their site:

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

Wanna know why I don't read that site? That might be a big part of it. The last time I checked, God has absolutely ZERO to do governing. Morality as determined by society, yes. The Christian God, no.

They don't have a clear purpose....because there isn't one. They are muddled in message on purpose....to drag in all the crazies possible. So they are mad about taxes, morality and want the "good feeling" about 9-12.

This is nothing more fake outrage to rev up the base.

[badmonkey]

So then it should be organized it as such. Intentionally referring to "9-12" is stupid fearmongering. "9-12" is just hysterical and intellectually dishonest garbage rhetoric.

Besides, why do we need to "unite as a country" right now? Our country has been diided by politics and social ideaologies since day one. It's kinda what we're all about.

The point of referring to 9-12 is because that's how we were on that day. It's a point of reference that's relatively fresh in most people's minds. I'm not sure exactly what the date has to do with fear mongering. I'm also not sure how it's hysterical and intellectually dishonest garbage rhetoric other than that you just said it.

[badmonkey]

So unless I read the 9-12 website I'm obviously a fool? Here is the problem...the 9-12 bullshit artists have 9 principles. Here is Principle #2 (http://www.the912project.com/)directly from their site:



Wanna know why I don't read that site? That might be a big part of it. The last time I checked, God has absolutely ZERO to do governing. Morality as determined by society, yes. The Christian God, no.

They don't have a clear purpose....because there isn't one. They are muddled in message on purpose....to drag in all the crazies possible. So they are mad about taxes, morality and want the "good feeling" about 9-12.

This is nothing more fake outrage to rev up the base.

I'm glad to hear that you agree with the other 8 principles. Welcome to the party.

[TheMojoPin]

The point of referring to 9-12 is because that's how we were on that day. It's a point of reference that's relatively fresh in most people's minds. I'm not sure exactly what the date has to do with fear mongering. I'm also not sure how it's hysterical and intellectually dishonest garbage rhetoric other than that you just said it.

We were "that way" that day due to extraordinary circumstances that left us all of the things that I listed before. That shouldn't be a situation or a mentality we shouold ever want to be in again. It's fearmongering because it's using 9/11 and the feelings it inspires to vaguely define a bullshit "movement" that aspires to something that's totally unrealistic to want. There's little good about 9/12. The unity basically amounted to everyone being more polite and agreeing that we needed to bomb/invade somewhere...in short, meaningless platiitudes that accomplished little and aren't anything we need now or they're just common sense ideas that most of us live by to begin with.

[badmonkey]

We were "that way" that day due to extraordinary circumstances that left us all of the things that I listed before. That shouldn't be a situation or a mentality we shouold ever want to be in again. It's fearmongering because it's using 9/11 and the feelings it inspires to vaguely define a bullshit "movement" that aspires to something that's totally unrealistic to want. There's little good about 9/12. The unity basically amounted to everyone being more polite and agreeing that we needed to bomb/invade somewhere...in short, meaningless platiitudes that accomplished little and aren't anything we need now or they're just common sense ideas that most of us live by to begin with.

Seriously? Does it really matter what the reasons were that we set aside our differences for a day or two and were all Americans? Do you really love your Red State vs. Blue State bullshit that much?

I guess we will have to wait to unite when the teleprompter tells us it's ok cuz it's not fear mongering.

There. That better? Fuck common ground. Back to partisan bullshit.

Nah.. that sucks.

[foodcourtdruide]

Seriously? Does it really matter what the reasons were that we set aside our differences for a day or two and were all Americans? Do you really love your Red State vs. Blue State bullshit that much?

I guess we will have to wait to unite when the teleprompter tells us it's ok cuz it's not fear mongering.

There. That better? Fuck common ground. Back to partisan bullshit.

Nah.. that sucks.

So you think the best way to create a bi-partisan atmosphere in this country is through fear of a potentially imminent terrorist attack and sorrow for the dead? I remember how I felt on 9/12 very clearly, and I don't want to feel like that ever again.

[underdog]

So you think the best way to create a bi-partisan atmosphere in this country is through fear of a potentially imminent terrorist attack and sorrow for the dead?

Yes.

[TheMojoPin]

Seriously? Does it really matter what the reasons were that we set aside our differences for a day or two and were all Americans? Do you really love your Red State vs. Blue State bullshit that much?

I guess we will have to wait to unite when the teleprompter tells us it's ok cuz it's not fear mongering.

There. That better? Fuck common ground. Back to partisan bullshit.

Nah.. that sucks.

OK, I'll go over this again.

The circumstances of 9/12 weren't natural. It was birthed out of a horrible catastrophe. You cannot and should not think to manufacture such an environment without another horrible tragedy. It was a "unity" that was the result of emotional trauma. It wasn't real, it was a horrible time and I can't imagine why anyone would want 9/12 ever again.

Again, we've been a "divided nation" the entire time we've existed. There's zero reason to act like partisan politics are some kind of new or urgent problem that needs to be done away with. Our democratic republic actually hinges on the idea that we have different political, social and economic ideologies. America IS America because of our differences.

All these "one people/one party/one unity" rhetoric ironically sounds very classically communist and fascist.

[epo]

Seriously? Does it really matter what the reasons were that we set aside our differences for a day or two and were all Americans? Do you really love your Red State vs. Blue State bullshit that much?

I guess we will have to wait to unite when the teleprompter tells us it's ok cuz it's not fear mongering.

There. That better? Fuck common ground. Back to partisan bullshit.

Nah.. that sucks.

You expect us to join hands like its 9-12 again with the very people who while in control of this nation told the dissenting minority to "love it or leave it" while being told that we were "unamerican".

And now that the worm has turned and the conservatives are a severe minority we are supposed to set the politics that they created aside? And set that division aside on their terms?

That is the most childish approach to American politics I've ever seen.

[badmonkey]

So you think the best way to create a bi-partisan atmosphere in this country is through fear of a potentially imminent terrorist attack and sorrow for the dead? I remember how I felt on 9/12 very clearly, and I don't want to feel like that ever again.

The people involved in the Tea Parties are not there because they are afraid of terrorists. It's not about being scared. It's about throwing away the partisan bullshit. I don't know how many different ways I can rewrite the sentences in English before people that speak English should be able to understand it. You respond in English so it can't be a language barrier.

[badmonkey]

You expect us to join hands like its 9-12 again with the very people who while in control of this nation told the dissenting minority to "love it or leave it" while being told that we were "unamerican".

And now that the worm has turned and the conservatives are a severe minority we are supposed to set the politics that they created aside? And set that division aside on their terms?

That is the most childish approach to American politics I've ever seen.

I expect you to do exactly what you're doing now epo. Prove my points while blindly trashing anything that doesn't fit in your tiny liberal worldview. Thanks for not disappointing.

[TheMojoPin]

The people involved in the Tea Parties are not there because they are afraid of terrorists. It's not about being scared. It's about throwing away the partisan bullshit. I don't know how many different ways I can rewrite the sentences in English before people that speak English should be able to understand it. You respond in English so it can't be a language barrier.

A non-Partisan America is not America. There has never been a non-Partisan America.

9/12 wasn't about anything BUT being scared and was a temporary, unrealistic, superficial response to a national trauma.

That's as simple as I can make it.

[badmonkey]

A non-Partisan America is not America. There has never been a non-Partisan America.

9/12 wasn't about anything BUT being scared and was a temporary, unrealistic, superficial response to a national trauma.

That's as simple as I can make it.

Yeah.. it's not the language barrier.

I'm sorry you're so afraid.

These people are not afraid.

They are pissed off.

[epo]

I expect you to do exactly what you're doing now epo. Prove my points while blindly trashing anything that doesn't fit in your tiny liberal worldview. Thanks for not disappointing.

What I would like is the conservatives to continue marching themselves off into the political wilderness. Right now you aren't disappointing.

[underdog]

Yeah.. it's not the language barrier.

I'm sorry you're so afraid.

These people are not afraid.

They are pissed off.

I thought the point was to be "one". Being pissed at people isn't a way to bring "9-12"ness.

Unless they're brown people.

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah.. it's not the language barrier.

I'm sorry you're so afraid.

These people are not afraid.

They are pissed off.

I'm not afraid of this because it's completely removed from reality and has zero chance of accomplishing anything.

Hell, if they're pissed off, they apparently have no idea what they're pissed off about.

Please explan to me how a "one party/one people" America would still be a democratic republic. Please point to a period in our history besides 2 months after 9/11 when this wasn't apartisan nation made of many different ideologies.

[foodcourtdruide]

The people involved in the Tea Parties are not there because they are afraid of terrorists. It's not about being scared. It's about throwing away the partisan bullshit. I don't know how many different ways I can rewrite the sentences in English before people that speak English should be able to understand it. You respond in English so it can't be a language barrier.

It's like I live in bizarro-world. An event sponsored and pushed by the Fox News Network exists because they want to promote non-partisanship.

Us being non-partisan on 9/12 was a BAD thing, becuase it was driven by fear and sadness. The democrats in congress completely laying down to the President after 9/11 was how American politics should NOT work.

[Gvac]

If we've learned one thing as Ron and Fez fans it's that unity parties not only don't work, they never come to fruition, mainly because nobody wants them.

Like I've said a thousand times before - show me someone who is everybody's friend and I'll show you a phony.

[underdog]

I think we're all missing a very important issue here.

Obama is about to make travel to Cuba legal. We should have a tea party and throw a bunch of tea into the water off of Key West. There's a bunch of communists over there and they're going to come here and push their God-less pro-gay agenda to all of our children.

[The Jays]

They are also going to take away all of our guns and access to abortions and birth control.

[Drunky McBetidont]

They are also going to take away all of our guns and access to abortions and birth control.

i thought the dems are gonna force abortions and pass out birthcontrol in kindegardens? but yeah, they want my assault riffle.

[badmonkey]

What I would like is the conservatives to continue marching themselves off into the political wilderness. Right now you aren't disappointing.

Not a big fan of opposing views. Noted.

I thought the point was to be "one". Being pissed at people isn't a way to bring "9-12"ness.

Unless they're brown people.

Yes, I know... You think everything breaks down to race. We get it already.

I'm not afraid of this because it's completely removed from reality and has zero chance of accomplishing anything.

Hell, if they're pissed off, they apparently have no idea what they're pissed off about.

YOU have no idea what they're pissed off about. But you also don't care. What ever happened to the liberal mantras of the last 8 years? You know... question authority, dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and all that.

:wallbash:


It's like I live in bizarro-world. An event sponsored and pushed by the Fox News Network exists because they want to promote non-partisanship.

Us being non-partisan on 9/12 was a BAD thing, becuase it was driven by fear and sadness. The democrats in congress completely laying down to the President after 9/11 was how American politics should NOT work.

The events started because of something said on CNBC by Rick Santelli. The first one was in Chicago. There have been several in cities all over the country and there are apparently over 600 planned accross the country on April 15th. It only seems to be a Fox News thing because the other networks are ignoring it. With Fox having all 10 of the top 10 shows on cable network news, it probably doesn't matter anyway.

Nobody is asking anybody in congress to lay down to the President. It's funny that you think the Democratic leadership isn't already lying down with or would ever stand up to Obama tho.

[epo]

Not a big fan of opposing views. Noted.

I love good constructive contrary thought. Please provide some policy ideas other than "NO" and "They are socialists!"

Looking to inspire a false "good feeling" through astro-turf events isn't really a "point-of-view"...its just fake outrage.

[TheMojoPin]

YOU have no idea what they're pissed off about. But you also don't care. What ever happened to the liberal mantras of the last 8 years? You know... question authority, dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and all that.

:wallbash:

Dissent is great. "9/12" is just scatterbrained, meaningless catchphrases.

[booster11373]

Why not a 12/8 project. seriously

[badmonkey]

I love good constructive contrary thought. Please provide some policy ideas other than "NO" and "They are socialists!"

Looking to inspire a false "good feeling" through astro-turf events isn't really a "point-of-view"...its just fake outrage.

You mean like when you were all so pissed about the $165 million AIG bonuses but not a peep about the $210 million Fanny Mae bonuses? That kind of fake outrage?

Maybe the fake outrage from Democrats against corruption in govt. when it's perceived to be on the Republican side, but again... not a peep when Chris Dodd and Timothy Geithner lie to the American people? That kind of fake outrage?

Or maybe like the fake outrage against Bush's "illegal wiretaps", which are now Obama's "wiretaps"? That kind of fake outrage?

How about the outrage over minority treatment in congress that led to new rules to help make sure that the minority (Democratic at the time) voices were heard, but got overturned by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid once they took the majority?

The policy ideas? You don't want policy ideas. When Republicans bring policy ideas they are shut down immediately. Obama points out to them that "he won" the election.

"No!" is all the Democratic reps said for the last 2 years. In fact, when Bush wanted to bring about some reform to the banks, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd said "NO!" the loudest.

Dissent is great. "9/12" is just scatterbrained, meaningless catchphrases.

It's a date, not a catchphrase. "Bush lied people died!" "No blood for oil!" Now those are catchphrases.

[IMSlacker]

You mean like when you were all so pissed about the $165 million AIG bonuses but not a peep about the $210 million Fanny Mae bonuses? That kind of fake outrage?

Maybe the fake outrage from Democrats against corruption in govt. when it's perceived to be on the Republican side, but again... not a peep when Chris Dodd and Timothy Geithner lie to the American people? That kind of fake outrage?

Or maybe like the fake outrage against Bush's "illegal wiretaps", which are now Obama's "wiretaps"? That kind of fake outrage?

How about the outrage over minority treatment in congress that led to new rules to help make sure that the minority (Democratic at the time) voices were heard, but got overturned by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid once they took the majority?

The policy ideas? You don't want policy ideas. When Republicans bring policy ideas they are shut down immediately. Obama points out to them that "he won" the election.

"No!" is all the Democratic reps said for the last 2 years. In fact, when Bush wanted to bring about some reform to the banks, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd said "NO!" the loudest.



It's a date, not a catchphrase. "Bush lied people died!" "No blood for oil!" Now those are catchphrases.

You seem to have that 9/12 feeling already. Kudos to you, sir!

[HBox]

I will find the link when I get home but it was not some spontaneous idea from rick
santelli that started this. The websites for these tea parties were registered by right wing operatives before word one came out of his mouth.

[underdog]

Yes, I know... You think everything breaks down to race. We get it already.

I thought that was the point of the 9-12 people. Start rallying together by hating brown people again, just like we did right after 9/11.

I really thought I had it figured out this time.

[underdog]

What ever happened to the liberal mantras of the last 8 years? You know... question authority, dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and all that.

What ever happened to the conservative mantras of the last 8 years? You know... follow authority, dissent means you're anti-American, and all that.

[The Jays]

Let's just wrap this thread up, because the tea parties are officially dumb ideas, based on an incorrect interpretation of an historical event, and without any substantial principle for which to be protesting.

It can't be about taxes, because even though it's happening on Tax Day, the majority of the people participating will probably be receiving a tax cut, and those receiving a raise on their federal income taxes are actually just having to deal with the Bush tax cut expiring. Any state or local taxes they are protesting are probably a result of their own states ineptitude at balancing their budgets/spending money (New York, California).

It can't be a referendum on Obama, because he's only been in power for less than 100 days.

So, what is it all about? The ineffectiveness of government? Where were you guys 4 years ago? Where were they on election day? Is it bank bailouts? GM bailouts? Bad mortgages? What is the point of the tea party, is there one general principle to tie the frustration together other than Fox News being the organization telling people where they can find out information about where to teabag?

[Ogre]

A non-Partisan America is not America. There has never been a non-Partisan America.

The why did President Obama run on the platform of trying to create one. No one can tell me with a straight face that anything that has happened in the way of crafting legislation has been bi-partisan.

[The Jays]

That's not non-partisan, that's bi-partisan, meaning two people who have different ideas on how things should be come to some agreement on certain ideas. Non-partisan means everyone has the same ideas, thus, everyone is the same party, thus, there is no difference in opinion. This is the Republican dream.

[TheMojoPin]

The why did President Obama run on the platform of trying to create one. No one can tell me with a straight face that anything that has happened in the way of crafting legislation has been bi-partisan.

Because talking about "bi-partisan" politics is the trendy thing people want to hear.

I'm all for the parties working together at least some of the time, but in no way do I want them to come together into some kind of giant super-party that agrees on everything, or even if they just agree most of the time.

The only thing that's really come up that had a shot of being bi-partisan was the spending program, but neither side made any real effort to work with the other.

[booster11373]

Let's just wrap this thread up, because the tea parties are officially dumb ideas, based on an incorrect interpretation of an historical event, and without any substantial principle for which to be protesting.

It can't be about taxes, because even though it's happening on Tax Day, the majority of the people participating will probably be receiving a tax cut, and those receiving a raise on their federal income taxes are actually just having to deal with the Bush tax cut expiring. Any state or local taxes they are protesting are probably a result of their own states ineptitude at balancing their budgets/spending money (New York, California).

It can't be a referendum on Obama, because he's only been in power for less than 100 days.

So, what is it all about? The ineffectiveness of government? Where were you guys 4 years ago? Where were they on election day? Is it bank bailouts? GM bailouts? Bad mortgages? What is the point of the tea party, is there one general principle to tie the frustration together other than Fox News being the organization telling people where they can find out information about where to teabag?

:clap::clap::clap:

[underdog]

Let's just wrap this thread up, because the tea parties are officially dumb ideas, based on an incorrect interpretation of an historical event, and without any substantial principle for which to be protesting.

It can't be about taxes, because even though it's happening on Tax Day, the majority of the people participating will probably be receiving a tax cut, and those receiving a raise on their federal income taxes are actually just having to deal with the Bush tax cut expiring. Any state or local taxes they are protesting are probably a result of their own states ineptitude at balancing their budgets/spending money (New York, California).

It can't be a referendum on Obama, because he's only been in power for less than 100 days.

So, what is it all about? The ineffectiveness of government? Where were you guys 4 years ago? Where were they on election day? Is it bank bailouts? GM bailouts? Bad mortgages? What is the point of the tea party, is there one general principle to tie the frustration together other than Fox News being the organization telling people where they can find out information about where to teabag?

Don't you get it? It's to get us back to where we were the day after September 11th: hating brown people.

[booster11373]

Don't you get it? It's to get us back to where we were the day after September 11th: hating brown people.

Some folks never stopped hating brown people

[underdog]

Some folks never stopped hating brown people

You mean the 9-12 club?

[The Jays]

That sucks for color blind people. They only get to hate dark grey people

[underdog]

That sucks for color blind people. They only get to hate dark grey people

That works, too.

[epo]

That's not non-partisan, that's bi-partisan, meaning two people who have different ideas on how things should be come to some agreement on certain ideas. Non-partisan means everyone has the same ideas, thus, everyone is the same party, thus, there is no difference in opinion. This is the Republican dream.

Because talking about "bi-partisan" politics is the trendy thing people want to hear.

I'm all for the parties working together at least some of the time, but in no way do I want them to come together into some kind of giant super-party that agrees on everything, or even if they just agree most of the time.

The only thing that's really come up that had a shot of being bi-partisan was the spending program, but neither side made any real effort to work with the other.

Yea...the stimulus package was a real opportunity to work in a bi-partisan fashion, but lets face it the House Republicans set quite a tone with their refusal to contribute and their 177-0 vote (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/us/politics/29obama.html?fta=y)against it.

[badmonkey]

Dissent is great. "9/12" is just scatterbrained, meaningless catchphrases.

Yea...the stimulus package was a real opportunity to work in a bi-partisan fashion, but lets face it the House Republicans set quite a tone with their refusal to contribute and their 177-0 vote (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/us/politics/29obama.html?fta=y)against it.

Oh yes. The one that President Obama said "I don't believe it's too late to change course, but it will be if we don't take dramatic action as soon as possible (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/08/obama-economic-speech-war_n_156171.html)". The one that President Obama and the Democratic leadership promised would be available online for us all to read for 48hrs before any vote was cast (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/17/cafferty.stimulus/index.html), then demanded had to be done immediately and then took a vacation and signed almost 5 days later in Colorado. Stimulus bill slammed through with a fear mongering hammer. I like that word fear mongering. Think I'm gonna use it too.

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Speaking of fake outrage. There was so much fake outrage about the unread Patriot Act passing, but none about this stimulus bill except by Republicans at voting time. They should have just done what President Obama asked tho probably... after all, he did win (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/23/obama-to-gop-i-won_n_160401.html) the election.

[underdog]

They should have just done what President Obama asked tho probably... after all, he did win (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/23/obama-to-gop-i-won_n_160401.html) the election.

He really did win. He's allowed to say it.

[The Jays]

Holy fuck, every time someone defends the Republican party, I really think is helps to make pink slime flow through the sewers just underneath the streets like in Ghostbusters 2.

[foodcourtdruide]

The events started because of something said on CNBC by Rick Santelli. The first one was in Chicago. There have been several in cities all over the country and there are apparently over 600 planned accross the country on April 15th. It only seems to be a Fox News thing because the other networks are ignoring it. With Fox having all 10 of the top 10 shows on cable network news, it probably doesn't matter anyway.

Nobody is asking anybody in congress to lay down to the President. It's funny that you think the Democratic leadership isn't already lying down with or would ever stand up to Obama tho.

I've seen it reported in places other than FoxNews, but FoxNews seems to be the only ones PROMOTING it, which is quite odd to me. I'm going to guess that's not odd to you though.

And why are you bring up the current democrat leadership aligning with Obama? Why wouldn't they? The Republicans weren't a voice of dissention when Bush took office, and again, why would they have been? Just a weird point for you to make.

So, are you pro- or anti- partisan politics? Because honestly, you have been taking a lot of partisan shots.

[ecobag2]

I think you've named the thread appropriately.. they're "Tea Partie(s)" smaller anti gov't skirmishes from concerned grassroots PACS, organizations that take care of particular issues. These are like surgical strikes in answer to the great big giant strike that the Boston Tea Party and all of 1776 was. In this fashion... we inch forward without one giant goddam bloody revolution... that would really fuck up my ability to play a round of golf.

[badmonkey]

I've seen it reported in places other than FoxNews, but FoxNews seems to be the only ones PROMOTING it, which is quite odd to me. I'm going to guess that's not odd to you though.

And why are you bring up the current democrat leadership aligning with Obama? Why wouldn't they? The Republicans weren't a voice of dissention when Bush took office, and again, why would they have been? Just a weird point for you to make.

So, are you pro- or anti- partisan politics? Because honestly, you have been taking a lot of partisan shots.

Glenn Beck is promoting it because he's heavily involved in it. Fox News is covering it because it's news. They are promoting their coverage of it so their viewers know which of their shows are in which cities and what times. They also promoted heavily in the last year their coverage of Presidential Debates, Party Conventions, New Years Eve parties, and other events when their people were doing special shows.

My point was not that the Democrats aligned with Obama. My point was that they lied to us about putting the bill up for 48hr review before a vote and then voted for it without reading it in less than 12hrs after the bill was finalized. People seem to be upset about the lack of bi-partisanship of the Republicans because they didn't vote for it. Nobody seems to be upset about the fact that the Democrats didn't even know what they were voting for and passed it almost unanimously. Both Democrats and Republicans voted AGAINST the bill, not just Republicans. That sounds like bi-partisanship to me.

I've responded to a lot of partisan "shots". I don't like this bailout crap and I'm sick of it. I was against it when Bush started it and I'm against Obama's continuing it. President Obama came out today and said basically that we're going to see more pain before the economy gets better. Where's the hope? I'm not seeing any leadership on either side. As for the tea parties, politicians should not be speaking at them period. I don't care if they're Republicans or Democrats. They are the problem. They talk all day everyday. It's time for them to listen. If they show up to one of these tea parties... it should be to listen to their constituents.

[Syd]

the people attending the tea parties have absolutely no idea how the government works

based mainly upon the fact that the whole notion of a modern tea party requires extraordinary cognitive dissonance

i mean seriously, its civil disobedience on public property following governmental law to protest taxation without representation

[keithy_19]

the people attending the tea parties have absolutely no idea how the government works

based mainly upon the fact that the whole notion of a modern tea party requires extraordinary cognitive dissonance

i mean seriously, its civil disobedience on public property following governmental law to protest taxation without representation

From what I gather, these tea parties aren't to protest taxation without representation, because that would jsut be mornic. I think it's to protest too much government. Which is ok by me. There are some of us who were pissed with what Bush was doing too. Unfortunately, we get caught in the mix between right and left. There are some people who are really just anti big government.

[angrymissy]

From what I gather, these tea parties aren't to protest taxation without representation, because that would jsut be mornic. I think it's to protest too much government. Which is ok by me. There are some of us who were pissed with what Bush was doing too. Unfortunately, we get caught in the mix between right and left. There are some people who are really just anti big government.

Then call them moronic. It's to protest taxes, that's why they're holding it on tax day.

http://teapartyday.com/

On April 15, be part of the Taxed Enough Already (TEA) party rally in your community

[epo]

From what I gather, these tea parties aren't to protest taxation without representation, because that would jsut be mornic. I think it's to protest too much government. Which is ok by me. There are some of us who were pissed with what Bush was doing too. Unfortunately, we get caught in the mix between right and left. There are some people who are really just anti big government.

Its a "groundswell" protest against the status quo which is organized by Dick Armey, the Heritage Foundation and Fox News....the exact cocksuckers who were the status quo until they lost their established grip of power during our free democratic elections.

This has nothing to do with non-partisan, this has everything to do with carnies and rubes, which is being held on tax day.

[badmonkey]

Its a "groundswell" protest against the status quo which is organized by Dick Armey, the Heritage Foundation and Fox News....the exact cocksuckers who were the status quo until they lost their established grip of power during our free democratic elections.

This has nothing to do with non-partisan, this has everything to do with carnies and rubes, which is being held on tax day.

Repeating a lie over and over does not magically make it the truth.

[HBox]

Here is the article I posted about last night. The report originates in Playboy of all places.

“Within hours of Santelli’s rant, a website called ChicagoTeaParty.com sprang to life. Essentially inactive until that day, it now featured a YouTube video of Santelli’s “tea party” rant and billed itself as the official home of the Chicago Tea Party. The domain was registered in August, 2008 by Zack Christenson, a dweeby Twitter Republican and producer for a popular Chicago rightwing radio host Milt Rosenberg—a familiar name to Obama campaign people. Last August, Rosenberg, who looks like Martin Short’s Irving Cohen character, caused an outcry when he interviewed Stanley Kurtz, the conservative writer who first “exposed” a personal link between Obama and former Weather Undergound leader Bill Ayers. As a result of Rosenberg’s radio interview, the Ayers story was given a major push through the Republican media echo chamber, culminating in Sarah Palin’s accusation that Obama was “palling around with terrorists.” That Rosenberg’s producer owns the “chicagoteaparty.com” site is already weird—but what’s even stranger is that he first bought the domain last August, right around the time of Rosenburg’s launch of the “Obama is a terrorist” campaign. It’s as if they held this “Chicago tea party” campaign in reserve, like a sleeper-site. Which is exactly what it was.

More here. (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/rick-santellis-faux-rant/)

[epo]

Repeating a lie over and over does not magically make it the truth.

Ok, so let me get this straight....you don't think that Dick Armey's "Freedom Works", the Heritage Foundation, who has talking points (http://blog.heritage.org/2009/04/03/tea-party-talking-points/)about the Teabagging Parties on their website and have deep connections to Armey, and Rupert Muroch's Fox News are in this together?

If you answer yes, then god bless ya...but you'd be the biggest rube ever in my opinion.

[Syd]

do as your corporate masters bid

FUCK BIG GOVERNMENT

another example of the complete erasure of logic that has happened in america

THANK YOU RONALD REAGAN

[epo]

The people involved in the Tea Parties are not there because they are afraid of terrorists. It's not about being scared. It's about throwing away the partisan bullshit. I don't know how many different ways I can rewrite the sentences in English before people that speak English should be able to understand it. You respond in English so it can't be a language barrier.

Hmm....this seems pretty partisan to me....

http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/191280/gopteabaggn.png

Yep...its a GOP production afterall! (http://teaparty.gop.com/Default.aspx)

CARNIES AND RUBES!!!!!

[NewYorkDragons80]

http://entimg.msn.com/i/150/Movies/Actors3/Bader_JS04641644_150x200.jpg

Ohhh, what a lovely tea party

[scottinnj]

THANK YOU RONALD REAGAN


I do just about every day.

[badmonkey]

Here is the article I posted about last night. The report originates in Playboy of all places.



More here. (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/02/rick-santellis-faux-rant/)

The article only mentions the chicagoteaparty.com domain name specifically, but then asks "Why were there so many sites and organizations online and live within minutes or hours after his rant?" I read most of it but I will admit that after the first few paragraphs I started mostly scanning for domain names to look up. I couldn't find one single additional domain in the entire article or the page of comments. If there were "so many", then why not mention a couple?

These are the domains that I've found so far that seem to be official for the Tea Party movement. They were all registered after the Santelli rant which took place on Feb 19th 2009.

Domain Name: TEAPARTYDAY.COM
Created on: 10-Mar-09

Domain Name: IAMWITHRICK.COM
Created on: 20-Feb-09

Domain Name: OFFICIALCHICAGOTEAPARTY.COM
Created on: 19-Feb-09

Domain Name: TAXDAYTEAPARTY.COM
Created on: 28-Feb-09


This one is Glenn Beck's and it appears that the 912 Project seems to have jumped on board with this idea more than created it.
Domain Name: THE912PROJECT.COM
Created on: 07-Feb-2009

Having trouble finding the conspiracy, but even if the ENTIRE movement IS being organized by *gasp* conservatives... why is that so horrible? The major anti-war protests are all organized by International A.N.S.W.E.R.

Steering Committee:
IFCO/Pastors for Peace
Free Palestine Alliance - U.S.
Haiti Support Network
Partnership for Civil Justice - LDEF
Nicaragua Network
Alliance for Just and Lasting Peace in the Philippines
Korea Truth Commission
Muslim Student Association - National
Kensington Welfare Rights Union
Mexico Solidarity Network
Party for Socialism and Liberation


Do you think that everybody that shows up for International A.N.S.W.E.R anti-war protests are commies or are they legitimately pissed off about the war in Iraq?

[badmonkey]

912 Project Tea Party Burn the Books lady is a fake (http://www.dailyuprising.com/blog/dailydissent/underhanded-moves-obamabots-faked-youtube-account/)

Her cached profile at Youtube. (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:DsZBSINqFhEJ:www.youtube.com/user/cookiecache+cookiecache+youtube&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

web.Archive.org archive of her youtube profile (http://web.archive.org/web/20080307051112/http://www.youtube.com/user/cookiecache)

What's more scary, the lack of actual Burn the Books type videos from these events or the fact that they only exist when liberals show up and fake them?

[booster11373]

912 Project Tea Party Burn the Books lady is a fake (http://www.dailyuprising.com/blog/dailydissent/underhanded-moves-obamabots-faked-youtube-account/)

Her cached profile at Youtube. (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:DsZBSINqFhEJ:www.youtube.com/user/cookiecache+cookiecache+youtube&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

web.Archive.org archive of her youtube profile (http://web.archive.org/web/20080307051112/http://www.youtube.com/user/cookiecache)

What's more scary, the lack of actual Burn the Books type videos from these events or the fact that they only exist when liberals show up and fake them?

What about the guy who thinks TV converter boxes are mind control devices?

[badmonkey]

What about the guy who thinks TV converter boxes are mind control devices?

Just be happy that guy was wearing pants.

[underdog]

Badmonkey, you seem to have missed this post. I'll just quote it, as it seems it may not be showing up on your browser :

Hmm....this seems pretty partisan to me....

http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/191280/gopteabaggn.png

Yep...its a GOP production afterall! (http://teaparty.gop.com/Default.aspx)

CARNIES AND RUBES!!!!!

[badmonkey]

Badmonkey, you seem to have missed this post. I'll just quote it, as it seems it may not be showing up on your browser :

Oh yes, sorry...let me address that for you. You can tell that the GOP is leading this march by the wealth of information on that website that tells you where you can meet up with like-minded people in your area for the local tea party.

Seriously?

[HBox]

The article only mentions the chicagoteaparty.com domain name specifically, but then asks "Why were there so many sites and organizations online and live within minutes or hours after his rant?" I read most of it but I will admit that after the first few paragraphs I started mostly scanning for domain names to look up. I couldn't find one single additional domain in the entire article or the page of comments. If there were "so many", then why not mention a couple?

Unfortunately the original Playboy article is not up anymore. That blog only had a portion up. There was more in the article.

And it all matters because this is being portrayed as a spontaneous expression of wide spread populist, supposedly non-partisan rage. At its core it's actually a planned conservative stunt exploiting a recently marginalized now-minority that is acclimating itself to having minimal influence after many years of either total control or very strong influence. That there is no core message here, that if you ask 10 different people going to this that they have 10 different reasons for being there, is only counter-productive. Any comparison to the anti-war protests don't work. While representatives from many different causes showed up as they do at virtually any protest, there WAS a very clear and recognizable central message there. That isn't the case with the tea parties. The name itself is no help. There is no historical parallel. You have at its core a very angry and spiteful rant from some guy on CNBC. Taking everything into account it's a very divisive video. Some people will pump their fists and agree; other will see some rich guy who works for the geniuses at CNBC complaining about poorer people getting a bailout people being cheered on by people who only still have jobs because of their own government bailout. It's nothing to inspire a diverse and wide movement. It's red meat for conservatives.

So rather than the anti-war protests the better parallel is those G20 protests in London a couple weeks ago, minus the violence. Does anybody know what the core message was there? Was it anarchists? Those for fair trade? Those seeking to abolish money? Socialists? Who knows? And that's more likely how this will be viewed. A bunch of angry conservatives being angry for many different reasons that will drown each other out.

[scottinnj]

And that's more likely how this will be viewed. A bunch of angry conservatives being angry for many different reasons that will drown each other out.

I gotta agree with that. While I like the idea, I'm afraid what will be seen is just angry white people mad that their day-trading days are over.

I have always linked the tax code to Big Government, because too much spending results in Big Government, no matter which party is in control of the purse strings. However, just like the anti-Iraq protesters, what will be seen is an angry mob, and no one with legit arguments for smaller government will be heard, and just like the anti-Iraq war crowd, who in the end were right, as I see here with the overall argument of over-taxation leading to a bloated federal government, this too, will be viewed with skepticism and the people in the crowd will be laughed at.

[Drunky McBetidont]

what will be seen is just angry white people mad that their day-trading days are over.





you convinced me. where do i sign up?

http://people.inf.ethz.ch/hvogt/tea/teabag_used.jpg

[The Jays]

The tea parties are already a large failure because they couldn't get organized without the help of a major media outlet, thus, they look like sheep being led by retarded shepherds.

[IMSlacker]

Retarded Shepherds would be a great name for a band.

[SatCam]

912 Project Tea Party Burn the Books lady is a fake (http://www.dailyuprising.com/blog/dailydissent/underhanded-moves-obamabots-faked-youtube-account/)

Her cached profile at Youtube. (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:DsZBSINqFhEJ:www.youtube.com/user/cookiecache+cookiecache+youtube&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

web.Archive.org archive of her youtube profile (http://web.archive.org/web/20080307051112/http://www.youtube.com/user/cookiecache)

What's more scary, the lack of actual Burn the Books type videos from these events or the fact that they only exist when liberals show up and fake them?

Actually the most interesting part of that video was the guy ranting about communists and taking back the country. The burn the books chick was just a bonus

[The Jays]

So, now they say this is bi-partisan outrage against ineffectual and bloated government.

What is most upsetting is, where was everyone's outrage last year? The Republicans could have done the right thing and nominate the right guy for the job, Ron Paul, who ran on the platform of reducing the bloated government, of reducing spending, and of getting us to stop interfering with free markets and other countries. But no, they decided to label him a loon so they could push the other 4 losers, and when they all got together to nominate a candidate, what did they do? They chose to nominate Bush 2: Electric Boogaloo and he fucking flopped. If the true conservative principles are so important to these tea baggers, why did the Republican party get together and nominate the most liberal conservative?

So, I have nothing but frustration for these tea baggers, because they deserve what they get... At least we have someone in office who tells the truth about when he's gonna grow the size of government, who takes responsibility for the size of the deficit and for the financial crisis that he didn't even help to cause, and who wants to do the right thing and get our troops out of Iraq.

[foodcourtdruide]

I don't see how anyone can argue this isn't being pushed by conservatives. Foxnews is promoting these events like a sticker-stop. I wish we could have a debate about this without that glaring intellectual dishonesty.

[Dave's Cackle]

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[Dave's Cackle]

do as your corporate masters bid

FUCK BIG GOVERNMENT

another example of the complete erasure of logic that has happened in america

THANK YOU RONALD REAGAN


Reagan also had two tax increases in the middle of his term AFTER he had the decreases. (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B05E5DE1F31F93BA35755C0A9629C8B 63)

[epo]

Oh yes, sorry...let me address that for you. You can tell that the GOP is leading this march by the wealth of information on that website that tells you where you can meet up with like-minded people in your area for the local tea party.

Seriously?

I don't see how anyone can argue this isn't being pushed by conservatives. Foxnews is promoting these events like a sticker-stop. I wish we could have a debate about this without that glaring intellectual dishonesty.

What was that about intellectual dishonesty?

[foodcourtdruide]

What was that about intellectual dishonesty?

I don't know why the right pretends this isn't a republican/democrat thing. Why would that even be a bad thing? It just distorts the whole argument.

[KatPw]

I don't know why the right pretends this isn't a republican/democrat thing. Why would that even be a bad thing? It just distorts the whole argument.

Because they wouldn't be able to scream "bi-partisanship!". They have no interest in working with those of opposing viewpoints, but they have to present themselves as wanting to work with others in order to give truth to the lie.

[foodcourtdruide]

And to address the old "The LIEEEBERAL Media" won't cover this conservative event complaint, this is all over the media today.

[The Jays]

Also, I wish there would be some honesty about this being spontaneous.

Main Entry: spon·ta·ne·ous
Pronunciation: \spän-ˈtā-nē-əs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin spontaneus, from Latin sponte of one's free will, voluntarily
Date: 1653
1 : proceeding from natural feeling or native tendency without external constraint
2 : arising from a momentary impulse
3 : controlled and directed internally : self-acting <spontaneous movement characteristic of living things>
4 : produced without being planted or without human labor : indigenous
5 : developing or occurring without apparent external influence, force, cause, or treatment
6 : not apparently contrived or manipulated : natural

Fox News has been promoting the fuck out of these on every single show. Everyone who is there today knew these protests were planned to happen, which is why they showed up. That's not spontaneous, that's pre-planned.

And this is not grass roots. Grass roots implies bottom-up. Fox News and a network of Republican/Conservative operatives have been organizing this thing for months. This is top down.

[booster11373]

The local one around here starts at 5 30 I'm thinking of going to see the best and brightest and most patriotic of real America

[badmonkey]

Also, I wish there would be some honesty about this being spontaneous.



Fox News has been promoting the fuck out of these on every single show. Everyone who is there today knew these protests were planned to happen, which is why they showed up. That's not spontaneous, that's pre-planned.

And this is not grass roots. Grass roots implies bottom-up. Fox News and a network of Republican/Conservative operatives have been organizing this thing for months. This is top down.

It is so cute how you think that the liberal protests just "happen" without any planning. All these people wake up on the same morning and make signs without anybody telling them what to do.

[KatPw]

The local one around here starts at 5 30 I'm thinking of going to see the best and brightest and most patriotic of real America

Take pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheMojoPin]

It is so cute how you think that the liberal protests just "happen" without any planning. All these people wake up on the same morning and make signs without anybody telling them what to do.

Who said that this is the case?

[HBox]

It is so cute how you think that the liberal protests just "happen" without any planning. All these people wake up on the same morning and make signs without anybody telling them what to do.

This really isn't good for your health. It took me all the way until after we invaded Iraq to get into this pitch you currently find yourself in. I mean forget about Obama's second term should he be re-elected, your heart will explode by his first State of the Union at this rate.

[badmonkey]

Who said that this is the case?

Well.. I quoted TheJays, but he's not the first person on this board to say that protests that are planned are not spontaneous or grassroots. The only part of this that is "spontaneous" is the part where it all kinda started out of nowhere and people began participating by the thousands within a couple weeks. Nobody's saying that people just decided out of the blue accross the entire country to hold 600+ Tea Parties on the same day. I believe that is what you like to call a strawman.

[TheMojoPin]

Well.. I quoted TheJays, but he's not the first person on this board to say that protests that are planned are not spontaneous or grassroots. The only part of this that is "spontaneous" is the part where it all kinda started out of nowhere and people began participating by the thousands within a couple weeks. Nobody's saying that people just decided out of the blue accross the entire country to hold 600+ Tea Parties on the same day. I believe that is what you like to call a strawman.

No, it's in response to how these have been hyped up as "spontaneous" and "grassroots" movements. Nobody is saying that there aren't similar top-down movements on the Left. It's just more empty rhetoric from a scattershot "movement" that's trying to dress up the fact they don't like that the Democrats are in power. It's not about "big government," it's about THIS government. That's fine, too...it's just ridiculous that they feel the need to dance around it. If they were genuinely pissed about "big government" then they would have started this at least around 30 years ago.

[badmonkey]

This really isn't good for your health. It took me all the way until after we invaded Iraq to get into this pitch you currently find yourself in. I mean forget about Obama's second term should he be re-elected, your heart will explode by his first State of the Union at this rate.

You sure? I mean... I didn't know you then, but after Bush was elected in 2000 and Al Gore and the Democrats turned into such a bunch of whining bitches that it disgusted me to continue supporting them. I begged my parents not to vote for Bush and I tried to vote for Nader in that election but Arlington told me my registration was expired. I find it hard to believe that you weren't pissed well before Iraq.

For the record... I'm not pissed at President Obama specifically. I'm pissed at the govt.. and I'm not even really pissed so much as a little ticked off or maybe angry/disappointed. My anger has nothing to do with the fact that McCain lost the election. I'm not so sure that McCain would be doing any better in this situation anyway because he'd be using the same group of idiots that advised Bush to bail out the banks in the first place. The bailouts under Bush is where my anger started. It would be nice if President Obama's administration would stop taking advantage of the "crisis" and maybe stop printing money. I would like it if he stepped up and told the banks that if they're not going to loan the money out then we're taking it back and they can go bankrupt. Maybe that would get things moving again.

I guess you don't have a problem with being lied to about transparency? You don't care if they tell you you'll have 48hrs to view the biggest spending bill in the history of the world before they vote on it and then vote on it 12hrs later without even bothering to put it online for the public to view or reading it themselves? If that's the kind of govt you want, then congratulations...that's what you've got. The rest of us are going to demand some of that "change" we've been hearing so much about.

[TheMojoPin]

You sure? I mean... I didn't know you then, but after Bush was elected in 2000 and Al Gore and the Democrats turned into such a bunch of whining bitches that it disgusted me to continue supporting them. I begged my parents not to vote for Bush and I tried to vote for Nader in that election but Arlington told me my registration was expired. I find it hard to believe that you weren't pissed well before Iraq.

For the record... I'm not pissed at President Obama specifically. I'm pissed at the govt.. and I'm not even really pissed so much as a little ticked off or maybe angry/disappointed. My anger has nothing to do with the fact that McCain lost the election. I'm not so sure that McCain would be doing any better in this situation anyway because he'd be using the same group of idiots that advised Bush to bail out the banks in the first place. The bailouts under Bush is where my anger started. It would be nice if President Obama's administration would stop taking advantage of the "crisis" and maybe stop printing money. I would like it if he stepped up and told the banks that if they're not going to loan the money out then we're taking it back and they can go bankrupt. Maybe that would get things moving again.

I guess you don't have a problem with being lied to about transparency? You don't care if they tell you you'll have 48hrs to view the biggest spending bill in the history of the world before they vote on it and then vote on it 12hrs later without even bothering to put it online for the public to view or reading it themselves? If that's the kind of govt you want, then congratulations...that's what you've got. The rest of us are going to demand some of that "change" we've been hearing so much about.

I actually agree with a lot of this.

If the Tea Party rhetoric sounded anything like this, it would seem much more legit.

[angrymissy]

lolerskates

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/74870/thumbs/r-TEAPARTY-huge.jpg

lovely (I thought this was about taxes, not an anti obama rally?)
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1391/slide_1391_19984_large.jpg

[KatPw]

Someone needs to point out that these people vote for a PRESIDENT not a vice-president. The VP is just along for the ride :wallbash:

[booster11373]

It is so cute how you think that the liberal protests just "happen" without any planning. All these people wake up on the same morning and make signs without anybody telling them what to do.

One difference is that any of those protest werent being promoted around the clock by a major "news" network

[booster11373]

lolerskates
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1391/slide_1391_19984_large.jpg

That single statment annoys me like no other

[HBox]

You sure? I mean... I didn't know you then, but after Bush was elected in 2000 and Al Gore and the Democrats turned into such a bunch of whining bitches that it disgusted me to continue supporting them. I begged my parents not to vote for Bush and I tried to vote for Nader in that election but Arlington told me my registration was expired. I find it hard to believe that you weren't pissed well before Iraq.

For the record... I'm not pissed at President Obama specifically. I'm pissed at the govt.. and I'm not even really pissed so much as a little ticked off or maybe angry/disappointed. My anger has nothing to do with the fact that McCain lost the election. I'm not so sure that McCain would be doing any better in this situation anyway because he'd be using the same group of idiots that advised Bush to bail out the banks in the first place. The bailouts under Bush is where my anger started. It would be nice if President Obama's administration would stop taking advantage of the "crisis" and maybe stop printing money. I would like it if he stepped up and told the banks that if they're not going to loan the money out then we're taking it back and they can go bankrupt. Maybe that would get things moving again.

I guess you don't have a problem with being lied to about transparency? You don't care if they tell you you'll have 48hrs to view the biggest spending bill in the history of the world before they vote on it and then vote on it 12hrs later without even bothering to put it online for the public to view or reading it themselves? If that's the kind of govt you want, then congratulations...that's what you've got. The rest of us are going to demand some of that "change" we've been hearing so much about.

I was pissed about how that election went down, but no, I wasn't worked up about Bush that first year. I was actually comfortable with him in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 all the way until the issue of Iraq came along. And then it was all swiftly downhill. There wasn't much to get worked up about. He largely did what he campaigned on. I didn't agree but it was what it was.

And while those are your reasons do you honestly think these protests would be happening today if President McCain was in office and doing exactly what Obama is? I don't.

And I do have a problem with what you mentioned. But that can't be why you are taking the streets. You are mad because a guy you didn't vote for didn't do what he'd said he'd do in one instance? It's not something to take the streets over. And for the record, I'm not thrilled with the secrecy thus far regarding torture that occurred under Bush and I think the stimulus should have included less tax cuts and more infrastructure spending instead. But I wasn't under some illusion that everything he said in the election would be followed through 100%. Anyone who did is a true rube. What he is doing is starting pushing the issues that are important to me. Health Care, financial regulations and cap and trade will be moved on this year. He has committed to getting out of Iraq, closing Guantanamo and refocusing on Afghanistan. Overall I'm happy thus far.

And as far as the bailouts as concerned, yeah it would feel good to let these assholes fail but we'd be far worse off if that happened.

[CurseoftheBambi]

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/74870/thumbs/r-TEAPARTY-huge.jpg

FAIL!

[HBox]

lolerskates

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/74870/thumbs/r-TEAPARTY-huge.jpg

lovely (I thought this was about taxes, not an anti obama rally?)
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1391/slide_1391_19984_large.jpg

AAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNDDDDD that's what I was talking about yesterday.

[angrymissy]

Homey don't play dat?
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1394/slide_1394_20035_large.jpg

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1391/slide_1391_20034_large.jpg

Who is "BARRACK?"
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1394/slide_1394_20027_large.jpg

[epo]

Homey don't play dat?
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1394/slide_1394_20035_large.jpg

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1391/slide_1391_20034_large.jpg

I love it when a white stereotype plays itself out.

[HBox]

http://washingtonindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/img_2440-1024x768.jpg

Way to secure the prime real estate today!

[DarkHippie]

Based on the above pictures of protesters, I am not sure what the tea party message is. First i thought they were protesting tax hikes, but that couldn't be possible because taxes have gone down for everyone except the very rich ( i believe 100,000 or more a year). I am expecting a refund for the first time ever.

Then I thought that they were protesting the large budget, but that couldn't be the case or else they would've been protesting the massive spending for the last 8 years.

So now I think they are protesting because then are angry that they lost the election, and nothing will ever satisfy them until the conservatives are back in power.

The protests of the liberals was very susinct: get out of Iraq. This one is incredibly scattershot and is saying nothing other than "we hate liberals"

[CurseoftheBambi]

can we have a photoshop thread strictly to mock teabaggers? and lots of truckernutz

and EPIC FAIL written on them

[Furtherman]

Homey don't play dat?

Living Color is just arriving to the midwest. I also saw a sign with the Church Lady on it stating Obama was in cahoots with Hmmmmm... I don't know, maybe, SATAN!!!

[underdog]

gone down for everyone except the very rich ( i believe 100,000 or more a year).

$100,000 is not "very rich". Not even close.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1391/slide_1391_20034_large.jpg

Who is "BARRACK?"
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1394/slide_1394_20027_large.jpg

See, badmonkey was right. Look how non-partisan it was.

[badmonkey]

One difference is that any of those protest werent being promoted around the clock by a major "news" network

Yes, they are talked about all week before they happen and the day of the events on all news channels. It's actually unusual for something like this to be virtually ignored by the other news stations. And again... the promos, special graphics, etc on Fox are not about the protests. They are about the specific shows and show hosts that are doing special shows on those days covering the protests. Their purpose is not in trying to get you to go the protests. They are spending money sending their biggest names out to cover this event and they want you to watch the shows.

I was pissed about how that election went down, but no, I wasn't worked up about Bush that first year. I was actually comfortable with him in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 all the way until the issue of Iraq came along. And then it was all swiftly downhill. There wasn't much to get worked up about. He largely did what he campaigned on. I didn't agree but it was what it was.

And while those are your reasons do you honestly think these protests would be happening today if President McCain was in office and doing exactly what Obama is? I don't.
I do think they would be happening because we were sold the bailouts originally as tho it was going to fix the problem. Then we were told we needed to spend even more and people are fed up.

But I wasn't under some illusion that everything he said in the election would be followed through 100%. Anyone who did is a specifictrue rube.

His campaign promise was 5 days. (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/234/allow-five-days-of-public-comment-before-signing-b/)

48 Hour Review Period After Conference? (http://readthestimulus.org/)
Posted at 4:25 pm on Wednesday, February 11, 2009

An interesting resolution came from the House yesterday as they officially sent their representatives into conference with the Senate to resolve the differences in the two passed bill versions:
From yesterday's Congressional Record (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/crecord/09crpgs.html), Page H1096:

Mr. LEWIS of California moves to instruct the managers on the part of the House that they shall not record their approval of the final conference agreement (as such term is used in clause 12(a)(4) of rule XXII of the Rules of the House of Representatives) unless the text of such agreement has been available to the managers in an electronic, searchable, and downloadable form for at least 48 hours prior to the time described in such clause.

This instruction passed unanimously in a recorded vote. (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll054.xml)

Congress voted to wait 48hrs and then not only didn't put it up so WE could read it. They didn't even bother TRYING to read it themselves.

[HBox]

Congress voted to wait 48hrs and then not only didn't put it up so WE could read it. They didn't even bother TRYING to read it themselves.

And that's been going on FOREVER. Why the problem now? Yes, Obama hasn't yet lived up to his promise but I assume the problem is less what Obama said and more the actual practice itself. Where were these protestations for the last 8 years. And for long before that even?

Where were these people when the Medicare drug bill was passed by Bush and the Republicans? I mean that should be held up as an example for everything that today is supposedly against. A wasteful giveaway to huge drug companies. A huge unfunded liability for future generations that will eventually require a huge tax increase to pay for. Congressional Republicans took advantage of every single dirty procedural trick to get it passed. And what happened? Not nothing. Most of these same assholes protesting today VOTED BUSH BACK IN OFFICE.

[angrymissy]

Another "BARRACK" classic

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3376530687_3fed36c859.jpg?v=0

[DarkHippie]

$100,000 is not "very rich". Not even close.


The average american makes about 1/4 that

[mikeyboy]

The average american makes about 1/4 that

It's still not "very rich".

[underdog]

The average american makes about 1/4 that

I was thinking as a couple. $100k is nowhere even close to rich if you live in the northeast.

and the average income for an american male closer to $50k than $25k. The average household income is over $50k a year.

[badmonkey]

And that's been going on FOREVER. Why the problem now? Yes, Obama hasn't yet lived up to his promise but I assume the problem is less what Obama said and more the actual practice itself. Where were these protestations for the last 8 years. And for long before that even?

Where were these people when the Medicare drug bill was passed by Bush and the Republicans? I mean that should be held up as an example for everything that today is supposedly against. A wasteful giveaway to huge drug companies. A huge unfunded liability for future generations that will eventually require a huge tax increase to pay for. Congressional Republicans took advantage of every single dirty procedural trick to get it passed. And what happened? Not nothing. Most of these same assholes protesting today VOTED BUSH BACK IN OFFICE.

Why the problem now?

http://www.amfor.net/images/ObamaChange.jpg
http://www.djztrip.com/obama/obama_hope.png

OR was all that just more of the same

http://www.stopobamaexpress.com/assets/images/ObamaHype.jpg

I guess it's ok if it is more of the same.. but if it is, then let's just admit it and quit pretending that it's "Change we can beleive in."

[HBox]

Why the problem now?

http://www.amfor.net/images/ObamaChange.jpg
http://www.djztrip.com/obama/obama_hope.png

OR was all that just more of the same

http://www.stopobamaexpress.com/assets/images/ObamaHype.jpg

I guess it's ok if it is more of the same.. but if it is, then let's just admit it and quit pretending that it's "Change we can beleive in."

Are you saying the only reason you are mad is because of Obama's slogan? So if it was something different, and he was doing the exact same thing, you'd be fine?

And even taking that seriously, you gave him less than 100 days before you took to the streets?

[DarkHippie]

Why the problem now?

http://www.amfor.net/images/ObamaChange.jpg
http://www.djztrip.com/obama/obama_hope.png

OR was all that just more of the same

http://www.stopobamaexpress.com/assets/images/ObamaHype.jpg

I guess it's ok if it is more of the same.. but if it is, then let's just admit it and quit pretending that it's "Change we can beleive in."

I dunno, so far he's done everything I wanted to do

[foodcourtdruide]

This is all over campaign slogans!??!?! What???? And I don't really understand, are you saying things haven't changed? Or is Obama changing the country in a negative way? I'm so lost.

[booster11373]

Wilmington North Carolina Tea Party update

I went down to the local Federal court house or the root of all evil in conservative language. I brought my camera had some fresh batteries showed up at about 5:20 thinking people would be there early for such a momentous outpouring of grass roots "real" American righteous anger

5:30 No protester but a homeless guy asked me for some spare change (for such a small city Wilmington has a ton of homeless)

5:35 No protesters

5:40 No protesters

5:45 I decide to take a walk around the block thinking maybe its on the other side of the building. I spot a Police officer, I ask him does he know where the Tea Party protest is, having no clue what I'm talking about I explain the basic concept to him.

5:50 I decide to call it quits. I so wanted to come back here and post some pictures from the event and I do have pics but I doubt anyone wants to see Downtown Wilmington or an protest free federal courthouse


I am pissed because I paid for 2 hours time on the parking meter and only used about 40 minutes but whatever..........

[foodcourtdruide]

Wilmington North Carolina Tea Party update

I went down to the local Federal court house or the root of all evil in conservative language. I brought my camera had some fresh batteries showed up at about 5:20 thinking people would be there early for such a momentous outpouring of grass roots "real" American righteous anger

5:30 No protester but a homeless guy asked me for some spare change (for such a small city Wilmington has a ton of homeless)

5:35 No protesters

5:40 No protesters

5:45 I decide to take a walk around the block thinking maybe its on the other side of the building. I spot a Police officer, I ask him does he know where the Tea Party protest is, having no clue what I'm talking about I explain the basic concept to him.

5:50 I decide to call it quits. I so wanted to come back here and post some pictures from the event and I do have pics but I doubt anyone wants to see Downtown Wilmington or an protest free federal courthouse


I am pissed because I paid for 2 hours time on the parking meter and only used about 40 minutes but whatever..........

lol, this is an awesome post. thanks.

[Syd]

$100,000 is not "very rich". Not even close.

As of 2006, the minimum earnings to fall into a particular percentile was as follows:Top 1%: $388,806
Top 5%: $153,542
Top 10%: $108,904
Top 25%: $64,702
Top 50%: $31,987

I'd say making more than 90% of America at least pretty well off. I don't think people get how lucky they are not to be sitting at the median income (which is usually barely above poverty)

[badmonkey]

Are you saying the only reason you are mad is because of Obama's slogan? So if it was something different, and he was doing the exact same thing, you'd be fine?

And even taking that seriously, you gave him less than 100 days before you took to the streets?

Of course it's not about campaign slogans. I told you today what it's about for me. The guy has also been talking about change since he's been in office. Hell, I think he said hope and change this morning. I'm just wondering where is the fucking change? You don't seem to care that there isn't any and that's fine with me if you don't. You voted for him, not me. I voted for the similar shit candidate myself. If I had voted for the change candidate only to find out that he's actually the "same old shit" candidate, then I probably wouldn't spend so much time defending all his broken promises.

You think these people should have been protesting Bush's spending for the last 8yrs, but you don't think that anybody should protest President Obama and the congressional leadership when they quadrupled the deficit (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/03/21/GR2009032100104.html) in under 2 months? It would take Bush at least another 12 years to do that at the rate he was going. Did you like the spending Bush was doing? The people that WERE protesting Bush's spending are too busy mocking Tea Parties now that it's their guy printing money to spend.

[badmonkey]

I'd say making more than 90% of America at least pretty well off. I don't think people get how lucky they are not to be sitting at the median income (which is usually barely above poverty)

That explains a lot.

[Syd]

That explains a lot.

You don't get to choose the life you're born into which is what defines how far you can go in life. Hard work doesn't give you anything other than callouses and arthritis.

[badmonkey]

You don't get to choose the life you're born into which is what defines how far you can go in life. Hard work doesn't give you anything other than callouses and arthritis.

Tell that to the guy who:


is the son of a poor man from Kenya who grew up herding goats with his father
is the product of a broken home who was raised by his single mother and grandparents in the USA
grew up to become the first African America President of the United States of America.


You might recognize him...I'm sure you voted for him.

[Syd]

Tell that to the guy who:


is the son of a poor man from Kenya who grew up herding goats with his father
the product of a broken home who was raised by his single mother and grandparents in the USA
grew up to become the first African America President of the United States of America.


You might recognize him...I'm sure you voted for him.

Now, tell that to the guy who is unemployed in any number of states and how he should have worked harder and not been a coal miner or a steelworker or a teacher or a cop. Should have bootstrapped harder, bro!

(also Obama grew up in a rather comfortable middle class upbringing in a family that was well, well above the median income of the time)

[badmonkey]

Now, tell that to the guy who is unemployed in any number of states and how he should have worked harder and not been a coal miner or a steelworker or a teacher or a cop. Should have bootstrapped harder, bro!

(also Obama grew up in a rather comfortable middle class upbringing in a family that was well, well above the median income of the time)

My grandfather was a coal miner before he was a truck driver and then a security guard after that. I have several uncles that work or have worked in the steel industry. People get laid off in every industry. I got laid off in 2001 at the end of the tech bubble so I have a clue what it's like to lose your job due to circumstances beyond your control. My father was born at a coal mining camp and he worked hard to get his education and become a doctor. Nothing was ever handed to him either.

You can sit around and make excuses and feel sorry for yourself or you can figure out what you want to do and what it takes to make it happen. Obama wasn't "born into" a "middle class upbringing". His grandparents provided that when his parents wouldn't or couldn't. Keep waiting around for somebody to push and pull you up a financial ladder with handouts. I'll be over here doing what I can to build my own fucking ladder and climb it myself.

[underdog]

I'd say making more than 90% of America at least pretty well off. I don't think people get how lucky they are not to be sitting at the median income (which is usually barely above poverty)

Those figures are for individuals. I was talking households.

And median incomes are pretty dumb in America. $100,000 in Boston or NYC means you may need another roommate. $100,000 in Arkansas means you can be governor.

[The Jays]

It is so cute how you think that the liberal protests just "happen" without any planning. All these people wake up on the same morning and make signs without anybody telling them what to do.


I didn't even mention anything about liberal protests. I said the following:

Originally Posted by TheJays
Also, I wish there would be some honesty about this being spontaneous.



Fox News has been promoting the fuck out of these on every single show. Everyone who is there today knew these protests were planned to happen, which is why they showed up. That's not spontaneous, that's pre-planned.

And this is not grass roots. Grass roots implies bottom-up. Fox News and a network of Republican/Conservative operatives have been organizing this thing for months. This is top down.

No mention of the word "liberal" in there whatsoever. And, to that effect, I didn't even mention any other protests, liberal or conservative, that have ever happened. If I did, I would say they were NOT spontaneous either. Most protests are always pre-planned.

I resent you jumping to the conclusion, that you know what I am thinking, that you assume that I believe that this conservative protest is wrong and stupid, and that liberal protests are correct and smart. Just because in your brain you think that anyone who disagrees with the GOP is both wrong, socialist, evil and retarded does not mean that I feel the same way. So, I resent that you jump to the conclusion that I think "liberal" protests are always spontaneous.

[Syd]

My grandfather was a coal miner before he was a truck driver and then a security guard after that. I have several uncles that work or have worked in the steel industry. People get laid off in every industry. I got laid off in 2001 at the end of the tech bubble so I have a clue what it's like to lose your job due to circumstances beyond your control. My father was born at a coal mining camp and he worked hard to get his education and become a doctor. Nothing was ever handed to him either.

You can sit around and make excuses and feel sorry for yourself or you can figure out what you want to do and what it takes to make it happen. Obama wasn't "born into" a "middle class upbringing". His grandparents provided that when his parents wouldn't or couldn't. Keep waiting around for somebody to push and pull you up a financial ladder with handouts. I'll be over here doing what I can to build my own fucking ladder and climb it myself.

So the vast majority of America just isn't trying? Nice that you can write off 120-140m people as just not trying hard enough.

also for the hurf durf boston/new york thing, that is nice and all but they're still not the entire united states

[The Jays]

I was listening to the Opie and Anthony replay, and I don't even know what loudmouth retard they had on as a guest, but, at one point, Anthony stated something to the effect of, 'They supported him during the campaign when he said he was going to give tax cuts to the middle class, and once he became president they realized, oh shit, I'm having my taxes raised.'

When I heard that, it seemed that Anthony was implying that people who make $250,000 are middle class. That scared the crap out of me. I thought I was in the middle class. Now, I find out I'm basically poor, I mean, I'm almost poverty level. I had no clue, honestly, that making $4,800 a week is middle class.

[badmonkey]

I didn't even mention anything about liberal protests. I said the following:



No mention of the word "liberal" in there whatsoever. And, to that effect, I didn't even mention any other protests, liberal or conservative, that have ever happened. If I did, I would say they were NOT spontaneous either. Most protests are always pre-planned.

I resent you jumping to the conclusion, that you know what I am thinking, that you assume that I believe that this conservative protest is wrong and stupid, and that liberal protests are correct and smart. Just because in your brain you think that anyone who disagrees with the GOP is both wrong, socialist, evil and retarded does not mean that I feel the same way. So, I resent that you jump to the conclusion that I think "liberal" protests are always spontaneous.

Ok...so you do actually understand that these things are always pre-planned. I didn't say you mentioned liberal protests. I'm just having trouble understanding why you seem to think that these protests should operate any differently from other protests that have happened in the past or why you think anybody is trying to imply that the Tea Party protests aren't also pre-planned. I think we would all be shocked if it thousands of people all over the country suddenly had the same idea on the same morning and spontaneously protested. I'm not sure what that has to do with disagreeing with the GOP. BTW: I haven't yet accused anybody of being socialist, evil, or retarded.

I was listening to the Opie and Anthony replay, and I don't even know what loudmouth retard they had on as a guest, but, at one point, Anthony stated something to the effect of, 'They supported him during the campaign when he said he was going to give tax cuts to the middle class, and once he became president they realized, oh shit, I'm having my taxes raised.'

I have a pot you might like to meet. I'm sure you will make lifelong friends.

[HBox]

Of course it's not about campaign slogans. I told you today what it's about for me. The guy has also been talking about change since he's been in office. Hell, I think he said hope and change this morning. I'm just wondering where is the fucking change? You don't seem to care that there isn't any and that's fine with me if you don't. You voted for him, not me. I voted for the similar shit candidate myself. If I had voted for the change candidate only to find out that he's actually the "same old shit" candidate, then I probably wouldn't spend so much time defending all his broken promises.

You think these people should have been protesting Bush's spending for the last 8yrs, but you don't think that anybody should protest President Obama and the congressional leadership when they quadrupled the deficit (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/03/21/GR2009032100104.html) in under 2 months? It would take Bush at least another 12 years to do that at the rate he was going. Did you like the spending Bush was doing? The people that WERE protesting Bush's spending are too busy mocking Tea Parties now that it's their guy printing money to spend.

It hasn't even been 100 fucking days. And most of that has been dealing with a economic crisis, which is responsible for that massive deficit. So yeah, I'm fine with none of this nebulous, non-distinct "change" you seem to be desperate for yet.

And, no, I didn't like Bush's spending. I don't think his tax cuts did anything significant, he wasted massive amounts of money on a wasteful and useless war, the Medicare drug bill was a nonsensical wasteful mess that is still in the process of being fixed (and no, unlike most liberals I was not in favor of this in ANY form. With so many uninsured in this country it made no sense to me to improve the coverage of a select few. It was a massive and expensive pander to the elderly vote that the Republicans got to first.).

The people today are either protesting something that hasn't happened yet (Obama's proposed tax hikes that won't affect 90% of the people at these protests) or things we don't yet know if they worked (the bailouts and the stimulus). So yeah, I think this is pretty fucking stupid.

[HBox]

I was listening to the Opie and Anthony replay, and I don't even know what loudmouth retard they had on as a guest, but, at one point, Anthony stated something to the effect of, 'They supported him during the campaign when he said he was going to give tax cuts to the middle class, and once he became president they realized, oh shit, I'm having my taxes raised.'

When I heard that, it seemed that Anthony was implying that people who make $250,000 are middle class. That scared the crap out of me. I thought I was in the middle class. Now, I find out I'm basically poor, I mean, I'm almost poverty level. I had no clue, honestly, that making $4,800 a week is middle class.

Your mistake was thinking that Anthony is at all informed. He isn't. He probably does think that everyone is getting their taxes raised. Just like he thinks his guns are going to be taken away.

[The Jays]

Anthony did help to introduce me to The Ron and Fez Show almost 10 years ago. I regard his opinion highly.

[HBox]

Anthony did help to introduce me to The Ron and Fez Show almost 10 years ago. I regard his opinion highly.

I never said he didn't know his comedy. Elsewhere however........

[booster11373]

It hasn't even been 100 fucking days. And most of that has been dealing with a economic crisis, which is responsible for that massive deficit. So yeah, I'm fine with none of this nebulous, non-distinct "change" you seem to be desperate for yet.

And, no, I didn't like Bush's spending. I don't think his tax cuts did anything significant, he wasted massive amounts of money on a wasteful and useless war, the Medicare drug bill was a nonsensical wasteful mess that is still in the process of being fixed (and no, unlike most liberals I was not in favor of this in ANY form. With so many uninsured in this country it made no sense to me to improve the coverage of a select few. It was a massive and expensive pander to the elderly vote that the Republicans got to first.).

The people today are either protesting something that hasn't happened yet (Obama's proposed tax hikes that won't affect 90% of the people at these protests) or things we don't yet know if they worked (the bailouts and the stimulus). So yeah, I think this is pretty fucking stupid.

That's one of the things that bothers me about these people, Nothing has happened yet, no new tax laws have been passed no new gun regulations have been passed its a preemptive panic

[badmonkey]

It hasn't even been 100 fucking days. And most of that has been dealing with a economic crisis, which is responsible for that massive deficit. So yeah, I'm fine with none of this nebulous, non-distinct "change" you seem to be desperate for yet.
And in under 100 days he's quadrupled the deficit. The economic crisis didn't cause it. He and congress did that and they did it willingly without even reading the bill.

[color=navy][size=2]And, no, I didn't like Bush's spending. I don't think his tax cuts did anything significant, he wasted massive amounts of money on a wasteful and useless war, the Medicare drug bill was a nonsensical wasteful mess that is still in the process of being fixed (and no, unlike most liberals I was not in favor of this in ANY form. With so many uninsured in this country it made no sense to me to improve the coverage of a select few. It was a massive and expensive pander to the elderly vote that the Republicans got to first.).

But you don't mind the wasteful spending of congress that nobody including Obama read before he signed it into law. That seems to fall under the "it's ok as long as my guy's doing it". Yes Bush and the Republican congress wasted a lot of money, but they handed President Obama a -$400billion deficit that he immediately turned into a -$1.8 trillion deficit. If Bush had done that in his first 100 days, there would have been national protests too and I would have been right with you.

[color=navy][size=2]The people today are either protesting something that hasn't happened yet (Obama's proposed tax hikes that won't affect 90% of the people at these protests) or things we don't yet know if they worked (the bailouts and the stimulus). So yeah, I think this is pretty fucking stupid.
They're protesting the insane spending that is leading to the need to raise taxes. There are people that are protesting Obama and Democrats specifically. Keep focusing on them and, just like they did, you will also miss the point of the whole thing.

[The Jays]

Ok...so you do actually understand that these things are always pre-planned. I didn't say you mentioned liberal protests. I'm just having trouble understanding why you seem to think that these protests should operate any differently from other protests that have happened in the past or why you think anybody is trying to imply that the Tea Party protests aren't also pre-planned. I think we would all be shocked if it thousands of people all over the country suddenly had the same idea on the same morning and spontaneously protested. I'm not sure what that has to do with disagreeing with the GOP. BTW: I haven't yet accused anybody of being socialist, evil, or retarded.



I have a pot you might like to meet. I'm sure you will make lifelong friends.

The problem is I keep hearing conservative commentators, from Glenn Beck to Larry Kudlow, saying how this is grass roots and spontaneous, when it is neither. When Fox News, the MOST watched cable news network, is promoting the tea party websites on every single one of their shows for the past two weeks, that's not exactly word-of-mouth organization, and it's not spontaneous when it's planned for a specific day and when different cities will feature different conservative stars. I'm not even saying that G20 protests are spontaneous. I will resent anyone who misuses the word and tries to attribute some mystique and special aura to these protests, because they are top-down gatherings... people on the top (Fox News) telling their lemmings what to do on April 15th.

Any, seriously, if you had heard the guest they had on, he sounded like he was actually retarded. He talked loud like one, and laughed at his own jokes like one.

[scottinnj]

I like tea. Green tea.

[DarkHippie]

I would just like to say that I am getting a tax refund for the first time ever. i am expecting 300 bucks. I didn't even get money from Bush's stimulus package. I plan to put the money right back into the economy by paying my power bill, so they don't turn the lights out, which they are threatening to do.

After less than 100 days, Obama has already done more to help me and my family than Bush ever did.

[badmonkey]

The problem is I keep hearing conservative commentators, from Glenn Beck to Larry Kudlow, saying how this is grass roots and spontaneous, when it is neither. When Fox News, the MOST watched cable news network, is promoting the tea party websites on every single one of their shows for the past two weeks, that's not exactly word-of-mouth organization, and it's not spontaneous when it's planned for a specific day and when different cities will feature different conservative stars. I'm not even saying that G20 protests are spontaneous. I will resent anyone who misuses the word and tries to attribute some mystique and special aura to these protests, because they are top-down gatherings... people on the top (Fox News) telling their lemmings what to do on April 15th.

Any, seriously, if you had heard the guest they had on, he sounded like he was actually retarded. He talked loud like one, and laughed at his own jokes like one.

It is not the fault of FOX News that the other news networks chose to ignore the Tea Party movement until it was too late to plan special shows and promote them. You keep trying to make it sound like this is the idea of FOX News and that they're somehow behind the organization of these protests. I'd like to see proof that they have done anything other than promote their coverage of the events and the fact that their people will be doing shows live from some of the protests. No protests are or have ever been spontaneous. Nobody believes it. No lemmings are being misled. Most of these have been organized by word of mouth and are much much smaller than the ones that FOX is doing shows at. You aren't likely to see much coverage of the smaller ones that are happening in neighborhoods all over the place with no special guests and definitely no big-ass stage. The ones with politicians speaking shouldn't even be counted as part of it at all unless it's a trick and they are immediately pelted with rotten vegetables.

[HBox]

And in under 100 days he's quadrupled the deficit. The economic crisis didn't cause it. He and congress did that and they did it willingly without even reading the bill.



But you don't mind the wasteful spending of congress that nobody including Obama read before he signed it into law. That seems to fall under the "it's ok as long as my guy's doing it". Yes Bush and the Republican congress wasted a lot of money, but they handed President Obama a -$400billion deficit that he immediately turned into a -$1.8 trillion deficit. If Bush had done that in his first 100 days, there would have been national protests too and I would have been right with you.


They're protesting the insane spending that is leading to the need to raise taxes. There are people that are protesting Obama and Democrats specifically. Keep focusing on them and, just like they did, you will also miss the point of the whole thing.

I've already said I didn't like that they did that with the budget. But it's the way Congress has been working for many years. So I'll ask you: Where were you when the Patriot Act was passed? And where were you when the Medicare bill was passed. And countless other bills? It's unsettling, it's secretive but it's happened before and will likely, but hopefully now, happen again. And we've survived it happening in the past.

And other than the bailouts and stimulus he's doing what he campaigned on. He's gonna do health care reform and its gonna cost a lot of money. He's gonna do other stuff and that's going to cost a lot of money. McCain made this as much of an issue as he could and guess what? 53% of the country voted for Obama. And 62% approve of what he's doing now.

[brettmojo]

Enter Joe The Plummer...

No, no biases here at all.

[FezsAssistant]

Obama said he would have a 'transparent' administration and there would be no pork.
The 'emergency' (haha) stimulus bill is mostly pork, but people only knew this after he passed it since he was secretive about what it contained and didn't give any living human enough time to read it (on purpose, of course). Not to mention the fear mongering they used to bully the bill through (just like Bush did).

Even their website (which retard Biden didn't know the 'web number' for) was very vague and lied about money allotment in the tiny bit of info it did contain.

Why won't the media stop talking about his ugly wife and new dog and do some work?

He's done a lot of damage to our future in a short amount of time. At least Bush took 8 years to ruin us (but he couldn't have done it without the help from Democratic Congress).

[FezsAssistant]

I would just like to say that I am getting a tax refund for the first time ever. i am expecting 300 bucks. I didn't even get money from Bush's stimulus package. I plan to put the money right back into the economy by paying my power bill, so they don't turn the lights out, which they are threatening to do.

After less than 100 days, Obama has already done more to help me and my family than Bush ever did.

If you want to get into this topic, do you know how many people are completely fucked and lost enormous amounts of money since Obama took office? Every time he and Geithner (you know - the guy that doesn't pay taxes) speak I lose a few more dollars.
I feel sick for anyone that planned on retiring in the next few years.

And for the people who are excited about getting $13 a week from Obama, you'll probably pay more than that back in state tax (and nyc tax if applicable), sales tax, food prices (thanks to Al Gore) and down the road. They stupidly gave away a ton of money and will get it from you one way or another.

[TheMojoPin]

The 'emergency' (haha) stimulus bill is mostly pork

No, it's not.

You can't think that's true and be serious.

You do realize the relatively miniscule amount of the spening bill that is "pork," right?

[DarkHippie]

If you want to get into this topic, do you know how many people are completely fucked and lost enormous amounts of money since Obama took office? Every time he and Geithner (you know - the guy that doesn't pay taxes) speak I lose a few more dollars.
I feel sick for anyone that planned on retiring in the next few years.

And for the people who are excited about getting $13 a week from Obama, you'll probably pay more than that back in state tax (and nyc tax if applicable), sales tax, food prices (thanks to Al Gore) and down the road. They stupidly gave away a ton of money and will get it from you one way or another.

Most of these people you speak of lost their money, or the instances causing them to lose their money, happened before Jan. 20th. Don't pin Bush's mistakes on Obama. In 90 days the economy is looking much healthier than it was before.

[KnoxHarrington]

I've got to say, the teabaggers didn't even meet my incredibly lowered expectations of the right wing these days.

What I love most about this right-wing echo chamber that's popped up is that if you just listen or watch those news sources -- you just listen to radio shows like Rush "Bring Me Another Young Boy" Limbaugh or Hannity, or you just watch batshit crazy Beck's show -- your belief that this is a good idea is just reinforced over and over. You are told this will be the start of a movement that will sweep Obama out of office in 2012, if not before.

But to the rest of us, and to the 62% who approve of Obama, it just looks like a bunch of hayseeds and rubes.

[CurseoftheBambi]

Why won't the media stop talking about his ugly wife and new dog and do some work?

let's see your hot one smarty

[underdog]

And in under 100 days he's quadrupled the deficit. The economic crisis didn't cause it. He and congress did that and they did it willingly without even reading the bill.



But you don't mind the wasteful spending of congress that nobody including Obama read before he signed it into law. That seems to fall under the "it's ok as long as my guy's doing it". Yes Bush and the Republican congress wasted a lot of money, but they handed President Obama a -$400billion deficit that he immediately turned into a -$1.8 trillion deficit. If Bush had done that in his first 100 days, there would have been national protests too and I would have been right with you.


They're protesting the insane spending that is leading to the need to raise taxes. There are people that are protesting Obama and Democrats specifically. Keep focusing on them and, just like they did, you will also miss the point of the whole thing.

If neither Congress or Obama read the bill, who did? Did they just magically find a bunch of papers sitting on the steps outside of congress and decide to push it through?

[Syd]

No, it's not.

You can't think that's true and be serious.

You do realize the relatively miniscule amount of the spening bill that is "pork," right?

pork is all government spending (except for military spending, which is good because we need(ed) f-22s to shoot down osama bin laden and illegal immigrants)

[TheMojoPin]

pork is all government spending (except for military spending, which is good because we need(ed) f-22s to shoot down osama bin laden and illegal immigrants)

I'm assuming he was talking about pork barrel spending/earmarks. I've never really heardof "government pork" referring to all federal spending.

[underdog]

pork is all government spending (except for military spending, which is good because we need(ed) f-22s to shoot down osama bin laden and illegal immigrants)

We also have to defend ourselves from Cuba and bomb Somalia.

[underdog]

I'm assuming he was talking about pork barrel spending/earmarks. I've never really heard of "government pork" referring to all federal spending.

I'm pretty sure he's being very sarcastic.

[Syd]

I'm assuming he was talking about pork barrel spending/earmarks. I've never really heardof "government pork" referring to all federal spending.

it was the talking point for awhile when the stimulus package was being worked on

so instead of having some sort of alternative, the GOP just made a talking point

[The Jays]

It is not the fault of FOX News that the other news networks chose to ignore the Tea Party movement until it was too late to plan special shows and promote them. You keep trying to make it sound like this is the idea of FOX News and that they're somehow behind the organization of these protests. I'd like to see proof that they have done anything other than promote their coverage of the events and the fact that their people will be doing shows live from some of the protests. No protests are or have ever been spontaneous. Nobody believes it. No lemmings are being misled. Most of these have been organized by word of mouth and are much much smaller than the ones that FOX is doing shows at. You aren't likely to see much coverage of the smaller ones that are happening in neighborhoods all over the place with no special guests and definitely no big-ass stage. The ones with politicians speaking shouldn't even be counted as part of it at all unless it's a trick and they are immediately pelted with rotten vegetables.

CNN and MSNBC aren't trying to ignore them... in fact, they reported on them all day long today. See, the thing about the news is , you tend to report it AFTER it happens, not before hand. Unlike Fox...

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2007/fox20090408opposition19.jpg

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8760/fox20090408opposition17.jpg

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1848/fox20090408opposition2.jpg

[PapaBear]

I saw a couple of minutes of CNN's coverage today, and it was pretty entertaining. The reporter let the protesters speak, which did wonders for showing how stupid they are, and she kept mentioning how they were all Fox News viewers. I didn't quite get where she was going with the whole "I've only seen one African American here" line. I guess she was pointing out that Fox News viewers are white.

[keithy_19]

CNN and MSNBC aren't trying to ignore them... in fact, they reported on them all day long today. See, the thing about the news is , you tend to report it AFTER it happens, not before hand. Unlike Fox...


The thing that really bothers me about this remark is that with news, while it's happening, you report it. These were planned events so they were there to view them.

Fox obviously is biased, just like msnbc is biased and cnn is less so, but is still biased. To me though seeing people, more people than expected attend these events shows that they are obviously concerned. People think they were all hicks and hayseeds, but I'm pretty sure California has a low percentage of them. It wasn't just a few places, it was all over.

The whole thing about how the only people who watch Fox are rubes and hayseeds and republicans is a crock of shit and I'm tired of it. I live in a suburb of NYC and I watch Fox news. Last time I checked I'm not a republican, and I was disgusted with what Bush did. So please stop grouping everyone into some category because of what they view.

[The Jays]

Fine, then you are not a Republican; you're just a rube and a hayseed.

[badmonkey]

Fine, then you are not a Republican; you're just a rube and a hayseed.

...so what you're saying is that all you've really got to to add to the conversation is your hatred and disdain for anybody that disagrees with you.

That's cool... Now I know it's a waste of time to talk to you. Thanks for the heads up.

[keithy_19]

Fine, then you are not a Republican; you're just a rube and a hayseed.

What makes me a rube and a hayseed? I'm really curious. You know nothing of my views and my opinions.

Please though, explain how I'm a rube and a hayseed. I'm dying to know.

[The Jays]

Because rubes and hayseeds are Fox News' chief demographic, followed by 3-to-8 year old boys and then people who enjoy the feeling of stockings against their cheeks. I just made the assumption is all.

[CurseoftheBambi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phrFtnurI6w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3fvNhdoc0

[IMSlacker]

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>M - Th 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=224258&title=tempest-in-a-tea-party'>Tempest in a Tea Party</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:224258' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml'>Daily Show<br/> Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/tagSearchResults.jhtml?term=Clusterf%23%40k+to+the +Poor+House'>Economic Crisis</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/'>The Colbert Report</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/224723/april-15-2009/tax-atax'>Tax Atax</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/'>colbertnation.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:224723' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/full-episodes'>Colbert Report Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/2009/03/23/breaking-colbert-wins-nasas-node-3-naming-contest/'>NASA Name Contest</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

[EliSnow]

Jays, please debate without the insults.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anderson Cooper weighed in on this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6TecmKi_Hg

[epo]

Oh no!

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/30549/philly.jpg

That's not good.................

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3381/3445009395_362cfa257a.jpg?v=0

These folks are the best!

[NewYorkDragons80]

I don't know why the right pretends this isn't a republican/democrat thing. Why would that even be a bad thing? It just distorts the whole argument.

Based on the news trends as I've read them, it seems to be veering in that direction.

[DarkHippie]

I saw a couple of minutes of CNN's coverage today, and it was pretty entertaining. The reporter let the protesters speak, which did wonders for showing how stupid they are, and she kept mentioning how they were all Fox News viewers. I didn't quite get where she was going with the whole "I've only seen one African American here" line. I guess she was pointing out that Fox News viewers are white.

As a veteran of many a protest, i can honestly say that any protester who speaks to the press at one of these is a rube. No matter what you say, they will edit it until you sound like an idiot. the whole goal when covering protests is to make protesters seem foolish.

[CurseoftheBambi]

well in the case of that cnn piece...the guys didn't need help to look foolish.

Why is he a facist?

Because he is!!!!!!!!!!

(yeah you can be sure that worked for him in grade school)

[The Jays]

Jays, please debate without the insults.

I was just joshing them, but you got it. My bad, I apologize to everyone, I get heated, and when I get heated, I get insulty.

I do respect everyone's opinion, except when it's mine.

[IMSlacker]

Turns out that the Tea Parties were really about supporting the troops. Who knew?

http://images.chron.com/photos/2009/04/15/16229256/600xPopupGallery.jpg

[foodcourtdruide]

So what were the final turn out numbers? I thought we (or I) had set the over/under at 100,000?

[IMSlacker]

So what were the final turn out numbers? I thought we (or I) had set the over/under at 100,000?

Nate Silver estimates 250,000 in total. He's also got estimates by city at 538.com (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/tea-parties-appear-to-draw-at-least.html).

[foodcourtdruide]

If it's 250,000+ I would have definitely lost money. I'm not familiar with 538.com. Is it a legitimate site?

[TheMojoPin]

If it's 250,000+ I would have definitely lost money. I'm not familiar with 538.com. Is it a legitimate site?

Very legit.

[HBox]

If it's 250,000+ I would have definitely lost money. I'm not familiar with 538.com. Is it a legitimate site?

If they only got 100,000 nationwide that would have been pretty bad.

[foodcourtdruide]

So... what now? I guess now that it's over I'm trying to understand what the point of this was. I didn't need a protest to tell me that atleast 250,000 conservatives in this country don't like Obama or his policies.

[foodcourtdruide]

If they only got 100,000 nationwide that would have been pretty bad.

I'm soooo bad with estimating numbers. My first inclination was 15,000, lol. Then BM had a post saying the turnout looked like it would be more than that, so I said 100,000. He didn't disagree so I thought I was in the ballpark.

[IMSlacker]

So... what now? I guess now that it's over I'm trying to understand what the point of this was. I didn't need a protest to tell me that atleast 250,000 conservatives in this country don't like Obama or his policies.

Not sure. I assume that they'd like to make it an annual April 15 tax protest and the numbers would grow.

[HBox]

Well I'd hope that they eventually get around to telling us what spending they want to cut.

[DarkHippie]

Well I'd hope that they eventually get around to telling us what spending they want to cut.

the liberal stuff.

[epo]

the liberal stuff.

Don't forget the programs that don't effect them directly.

[angrymissy]

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1400/slide_1400_20100_large.jpg

[DarkHippie]

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1400/slide_1400_20100_large.jpg

Why do they want to impeach Obama? Its not like he outed a CIA agent, or lied to the UN about intelligence to start a war, or bypassed the geneva conventions ban on torturing soliders by labeling them enemy combatants, or ok'ed the wiretapping of american citizens.

At least give him 100 days before crying for his impeachment

[CurseoftheBambi]

Moran 1

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1400/slide_1400_20099_large.jpg

Moran 2

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1400/slide_1400_20103_large.jpg

Morans 3-5

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1400/slide_1400_20112_large.jpg

Moran 6

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1398/slide_1398_20093_large.jpg

Ulitmate Morans
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1398/slide_1398_20074_large.jpg

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1398/slide_1398_20069_large.jpg

[keithy_19]

So... what now? I guess now that it's over I'm trying to understand what the point of this was. I didn't need a protest to tell me that atleast 250,000 conservatives in this country don't like Obama or his policies.

Some of these people who were at these events will just go back to living their life and let it be. That's foolish. If you believe in something, really believe in something, you continue doing things to show it. Even if it seems like it's small and insignificant, you should do something else. Otherwise, the whole point at being at the protest is bullshit.

[lleeder]

I haven't read any of this thread, picked up a newspaper, or watched the news. Yet I have a question: Did a significant amount of people show up for these protests?

[keithy_19]

Just a question, can we all agree that at every event you'll find dumb people? I'm sure at a liberal event you'll find people who are dumb. People on the right point out those particular dumb people and ignore the actual message.

The left does the same thing at a right event. Left/Right, they're the same.

[angrymissy]

Just a question, can we all agree that at every event you'll find dumb people? I'm sure at a liberal event you'll find people who are dumb. People on the right point out those particular dumb people and ignore the actual message.

The left does the same thing at a right event. Left/Right, they're the same.

The point to the pics in this thread was the ranting and raving that this was not an anti-Obama rally, it was an anti-tax rally.

Fun to point and laugh irregardless.

[keithy_19]

I haven't read any of this thread, picked up a newspaper, or watched the news. Yet I have a question: Did a significant amount of people show up for these protests?

More than expected. I would say yes. And the fact it was spread out across the country shows that it wasn't just a southern, northern, eastern, or western thing. It was a whole nation thing.

[angrymissy]

More than expected. I would say yes. And the fact it was spread out across the country shows that it wasn't just a southern, northern, eastern, or western thing. It was a whole nation thing.

There were 250k nationwide.

As a parallel, the Iraq War protests in 2003 had 400-500k in NY alone, with 200+ protests totaling a little more than a million people across the country.

But back then these same people were telling us hippies to get a job and stop protesting.

[epo]

Just a question, can we all agree that at every event you'll find dumb people? I'm sure at a liberal event you'll find people who are dumb. People on the right point out those particular dumb people and ignore the actual message.

The left does the same thing at a right event. Left/Right, they're the same.

I'll try to answer this as best I can.

The left is better at this stuff than the right is. Generally in history, conservatives are the status quo, so they don't protest. The left in this nation has gotten very good at organizing a protest to a cause. I think of three "recent" examples:


Iraq War protesters
2004 Women's Right to Choose protest in Washington D.C.
Million Man March

Those protests, while I'm sure had their share of dumb people, were organized to singular causes to create a change or to send a message to the status quo. This "tea party" thing didn't have a clear focus, but rather had an open-ended "we're pissed" mission...which naturally led to the lack of focus.

[keithy_19]

The point to the pics in this thread was the ranting and raving that this was not an anti-Obama rally, it was an anti-tax rally.

Fun to point and laugh irregardless.

The reason Obama's name comes up is because he's part of the problem. He increased spending. Just like Bush did before him. Obama just continued the trend. Increased the trend. I think people were hopeful it would stop with Obama, but it just became more. I don't think he should be impeached(there's no grounds for it anyway), but I understand the frustration of people.

[keithy_19]

I'll try to answer this as best I can.

The left is better at this stuff than the right is. Generally in history, conservatives are the status quo, so they don't protest. The left in this nation has gotten very good at organizing a protest to a cause. I think of three "recent" examples:


Iraq War protesters
2004 Women's Right to Choose protest in Washington D.C.
Million Man March

Those protests, while I'm sure had their share of dumb people, were organized to singular causes to create a change or to send a message to the status quo. This "tea party" thing didn't have a clear focus, but rather had an open-ended "we're pissed" mission...which naturally led to the lack of focus.


Grass roots protests are usually not as well situated though. It's a start. I'm hoping that people will grasp hold of a singular cause and actually come together and plan. It has to start somewhere.

[epo]

Grass roots protests are usually not as well situated though. It's a start. I'm hoping that people will grasp hold of a singular cause and actually come together and plan. It has to start somewhere.

I would agree with that premise Keithy, but this was not a "grass roots" protest.

[DarkHippie]

Just a question, can we all agree that at every event you'll find dumb people? I'm sure at a liberal event you'll find people who are dumb. People on the right point out those particular dumb people and ignore the actual message.

The left does the same thing at a right event. Left/Right, they're the same.

qft. the media looks for the wackiest and makes then the voice of the movement.

[DarkHippie]

The reason Obama's name comes up is because he's part of the problem. He increased spending. Just like Bush did before him. Obama just continued the trend. Increased the trend. I think people were hopeful it would stop with Obama, but it just became more. I don't think he should be impeached(there's no grounds for it anyway), but I understand the frustration of people.

I just don't think that this budget is a problem. Yes, we are borrowing alot of money, but it is going into programs to creat jobs. Protestors are complaining that it is pork, but its not. The only way to rebuild the economy is to jumpstart it and create jobs.

Jobs = more money to spend = more cash flow = stronger economy.

Once the economy is healthy, we can work on paying back debts.

[brettmojo]

Grass roots protests are usually not as well situated though. It's a start. I'm hoping that people will grasp hold of a singular cause and actually come together and plan. It has to start somewhere.
Hopefully Fox will be able to fit it in somewhere between sweeps and Idol.

[booster11373]

The best video I have seen so far

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AkOwsIIIe5I&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AkOwsIIIe5I&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[scottinnj]

I was right...from the pics posted here all these tea parties prominately displayed to the media all the dummies we on the right usually keep at home. These rallies were so off-message, the Right looks as stupid as the Left when a good protest rolls into town.

Way to go. Watching some of the coverage I was hoping for a "sweep 'em off the street" tax to be made just to get these idiots to shutup.

[A.J.]

Moran 1

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1400/slide_1400_20099_large.jpg

Fuck off. I bow before Zod!

[Syd]

I was right...from the pics posted here all these tea parties prominately displayed to the media all the dummies we on the right usually keep at home. These rallies were so off-message, the Right looks as stupid as the Left when a good protest rolls into town.

Way to go. Watching some of the coverage I was hoping for a "sweep 'em off the street" tax to be made just to get these idiots to shutup.

That is the crux of the problem. The GOP still has no coherent message and everything they've done since May 2007 is basically appeal to their constituents. The independents and bluedogs aren't being swayed by their arguments yet they just keep running headlong into it. In this down economy you have to wonder if their return on investment on the Tea Parties was worth it. It easily went in excess of $50 per person who attended and the only people who saw profits from it are Fox News.

That's all it comes down to -- did you attract new voters for 2010 after spending $10m? Likely not, at best shored up your support in gerrymandered districts. Given that gerrymandering usually only "lasts" 10 years or so, the Democrats are about to inherit a great situation for them so maybe it is time you begin to guarantee your House seats by having rallies this far out.

[epo]

That is the crux of the problem. The GOP still has no coherent message and everything they've done since May 2007 is basically appeal to their constituents. The independents and bluedogs aren't being swayed by their arguments yet they just keep running headlong into it. In this down economy you have to wonder if their return on investment on the Tea Parties was worth it. It easily went in excess of $50 per person who attended and the only people who saw profits from it are Fox News.

That's all it comes down to -- did you attract new voters for 2010 after spending $10m? Likely not, at best shored up your support in gerrymandered districts. Given that gerrymandering usually only "lasts" 10 years or so, the Democrats are about to inherit a great situation for them so maybe it is time you begin to guarantee your House seats by having rallies this far out.

Once the next census is done, those districts are gonna be a changin'.........

[CurseoftheBambi]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/16/123851/745/227/720820


here's a link to the guy in booster's video about his experience at the teabagging.

[Syd]

Once the next census is done, those districts are gonna be a changin'.........

Yeah, so now they're going to be gerrymandered in favor of the Democrats on top of the fact that the populations in almost all districts have moved towards Democratic voters.

[HBox]

Yeah, so now they're going to be gerrymandered in favor of the Democrats on top of the fact that the populations in almost all districts have moved towards Democratic voters.

Maybe, but maybe not. What will happen is that traditionally Republican states will gain quite a few electoral votes due to migration. I think Texas and Arizona and a bunch of Southern states stand to gain a few votes while a couple Northeastern states stand to lose votes.

[SP1!]

There were 250k nationwide.

As a parallel, the Iraq War protests in 2003 had 400-500k in NY alone, with 200+ protests totaling a little more than a million people across the country.

But back then these same people were telling us hippies to get a job and stop protesting.No, they didnt, they had maybe 250k total in NY, which is not surprising in a city with that many people.

I would agree with that premise Keithy, but this was not a "grass roots" protest.
What was it then? It wasnt that widely publicized outside of hannity and other so called whacko right wing radio shows.

I think people are more pissed than normal and even though all of you are discounting their gripes I think that all of those financial institutions should have been allowed to fail. They couldnt have that though since those in power would have lost some of their clout, hate it all you want but in the end these whackos are right.

They keep attacking them as racist or rednecks when in reality they are just normal people.

[TheMojoPin]

Who is "they?"

The faux-persecution complex is in full effect.

[brettmojo]

They keep attacking them as racist or rednecks when in reality they are just normal people who watch Fox News and believe everything they tell them.
http://thechumslick.com/media/blogs/fathead/3.4.08-fox.jpg

[CurseoftheBambi]

They keep attacking them as racist or rednecks when in reality they are just normal people.

When ya have signs that are racist , and rednecky...and show tons of ignorance....My guess is yeah ...racist and redneck label applies...sure not alllllllllll of them.

[Syd]

Maybe, but maybe not. What will happen is that traditionally Republican states will gain quite a few electoral votes due to migration. I think Texas and Arizona and a bunch of Southern states stand to gain a few votes while a couple Northeastern states stand to lose votes.

True, but Texas will be swinging blue in less than 2 decades and Arizona was barely carried by McCain. Any EVs that are added to red states are also added to new swing states in which that new population represents Democratic-leaning voters.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who would have thought Janeane Garafalo would be an expert in neurology. Heres some words of wisdom by a 3rd rate actress, looks like there is a lunatic fringe on the left as well. She does look like Olbermann in drag


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAAHMDpk7Ik