The "new" Republican Message: FEAR

[CurseoftheBambi]

House GOP Obama Ad Aims To Terrify


House Republicans want to know: Do you feel safer?

In a remarkable video just released by House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and ranking intelligence committee member Pete Hoekstra (R-Mich.), images of Obama "bowing" to Saudi officials and shaking hands with Hugo Chavez are interspersed with footage of the Pentagon exploding and terrorists doing bad things. All of it is back-dropped by frightening music.

"What is the overarching strategy?" Boehner asked when questioned about the video. "I'm trying to push the administration to describe what their overarching strategy is."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/30/house-gop-obama-ad-aims-t_n_193807.html

(GO TO LINK IT INCLUDES VIDEO)

MY REACTION: :wacko: :nono::furious:

i'm guessing this is Boenner's follow up to his no numbers budget?

[FezsAssistant]

Dems NEVER purposely use fear for political gain.

Stimulus bill...global warming...healthcare...

NEVER!

[Drunky McBetidont]

well, i guess i would judge my feeling of saftey based on international opinion. does the rest of the world hate us today as much as they did before obama was elected?

[CurseoftheBambi]

Dems NEVER purposely use fear for political gain.

Stimulus bill...global warming...healthcare...

NEVER!

So you agree with the ad then? And the purpose it was used for?

[Crispy123]

Dems NEVER purposely use fear for political gain.

Stimulus bill...global warming...healthcare...

NEVER!


Someones got a fuzzy memory, that was Bush. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22725498/)

[FezsAssistant]

Someones got a fuzzy memory, that was Bush.

bush is a liberal

[FezsAssistant]

So you agree with the ad then? And the purpose it was used for?

Fear mongering worked really really well for the Dems, so you can't blame Republicans for going that route. It's smart. Dems and Republicans are not about 'right and wrong'. They couldn't care less about the citizens.

[HBox]

bush is a liberal

Fear mongering worked really really well for the Dems, so you can't blame Republicans for going that route. It's smart. Dems and Republicans are not about 'right and wrong'. They couldn't care less about the citizens.

Just because you type things and hit post don't make them true.

[FezsAssistant]

Someones got a fuzzy memory, that was Bush. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22725498/)

So why the outrage at the NY Post cartoon? That's really strange.

[FezsAssistant]

Just because you type things and hit post don't make them true.

you're right. those aren't the reasons my comments are true.

[Crispy123]

Fear mongering worked really really well for the Dems, so you can't blame Republicans for going that route. It's smart. Dems and Republicans are not about 'right and wrong'. They couldn't care less about the citizens.

I think you may be confused about the terms liberal and democrat.

[DarkHippie]

So why the outrage at the NY Post cartoon? That's really strange.

because republicans are trying to distance themselves away from the auto bailout. And the Post is dutiful

[brettmojo]

What else is new.

Oh hey, smoking is bad for you.

[KatPw]

Dems NEVER purposely use fear for political gain.

Stimulus bill...global warming...healthcare...

NEVER!

I don't have healthcare coverage. It IS a concern of mine.

[Knowledged_one]

I don't have healthcare coverage. It IS a concern of mine.

yeah well i cant find a job because of obama cutting military funding and making it now virtually impossible to be a contractor for the military

[underdog]

This is their "new" message?

[keithy_19]

And the dems did the same thing with the Patriot Act and the wiretapping things that Bush did. Fear is used for political game. Don't try to make this a holier than thou argument.

[TheMojoPin]

yeah well i cant find a job because of obama cutting military funding and making it now virtually impossible to be a contractor for the military

Sucks to be you, warmonger!












































Just kidding.

[TheMojoPin]

And the dems did the same thing with the Patriot Act and the wiretapping things that Bush did. Fear is used for political game. Don't try to make this a holier than thou argument.

Please show me the equivalent official Democratic ads that explicitly implied that those Repubican-initiated actions would result in similar catastrophes such as terrorist attacks and the freakin' Pentagon blowing up. We're talking "LBJ sez the Republicans will nuke yer daughter"-level here.

If you can, touche. If not, it's not the same. There's a difference between, "you should be worried about this" and "HOLY FUCK, YOUR TERRORIST-LOVING PRESIDENT MIGHT GET YOU DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[epo]

yeah well i cant find a job because of obama cutting military funding and making it now virtually impossible to be a contractor for the military

So YOUR program is good....but the others are socialist?

That is rich.

[led37zep]

Sigh

[DarkHippie]

yeah well i cant find a job because of obama cutting military funding and making it now virtually impossible to be a contractor for the military

good thing there's unemployment

[BoxyBrown]

Boxy knows the REAL fear these succas got

http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/freshloaf/files/2008/10/fear-of-a-black-planet-400x400.jpg

[KatPw]

good thing there's unemployment
But isn't that a Socialist construct? [insert sarcasm smiley here]

[Serpico1103]

yeah well i cant find a job because of obama cutting military funding and making it now virtually impossible to be a contractor for the military

You can't find work because you are lazy and would rather live off the tit of the hard working middle class of the greatest nation on earth, AMERICA!

[The Jays]

Sounds like just another mouth sucking off the tits of the federal government.

I bet you're worried that without such job you'll lose your healthcare too. Yeah, I've been there.

[CurseoftheBambi]

You can't find work because you are lazy and would rather live off the tit of the hard working middle class of the greatest nation on earth, AMERICA!

FTW:laugh:

[A.J.]

In a remarkable video just released by House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and ranking intelligence committee member Pete Hoekstra (R-Mich.), images of Obama "bowing" to Saudi officials

That's great. You want the Saudis to cooperate with us (which they've done more than anyone else in the region) and then you continue to portray them as bad guys. Thanks Washington!

[epo]

As a democrat, the direction of the republican party has me smiling from ear-to-ear. Today, Dick Cheney made this claim:

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Another words....moderates....get the fuck out.

[brettmojo]

As a democrat, the direction of the republican party has me smiling from ear-to-ear. Today, Dick Cheney made this claim:

<object width="448" height="368">


<embed src="http://www.dailykostv.com/flv/player.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="config=http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001303/vxml.php?448" width="448" height="368"></object>

Another words....moderates....get the fuck out.
Good. I hope they go on a hunting trip together. That way everyone wins.

[Gvac]

Nothing would make me happier than to see the Republican party move to the extreme right and the Dems go hard to the left.

Maybe then we'd finally have a viable third party in this country.

[keithy_19]

Nothing would make me happier than to see the Republican party move to the extreme right and the Dems go hard to the left.

Maybe then we'd finally have a viable third party in this country.

Libertarian!

[high fly]

House GOP Obama Ad Aims To Terrify


House Republicans want to know: Do you feel safer?

In a remarkable video just released by House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and ranking intelligence committee member Pete Hoekstra (R-Mich.), images of Obama "bowing" to Saudi officials and shaking hands with Hugo Chavez are interspersed with footage of the Pentagon exploding and terrorists doing bad things. All of it is back-dropped by frightening music.

"What is the overarching strategy?" Boehner asked when questioned about the video. "I'm trying to push the administration to describe what their overarching strategy is."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/30/house-gop-obama-ad-aims-t_n_193807.html

(GO TO LINK IT INCLUDES VIDEO)

MY REACTION: :wacko: :nono::furious:

i'm guessing this is Boenner's follow up to his no numbers budget?




More proof the GOP did not learn their lesson in the last 2 elections.
The American people turned their backs on them for this shit...

[Cyber Trucker]

Nothing would make me happier than to see the Republican party move to the extreme right and the Dems go hard to the left.

Maybe then we'd finally have a viable third party in this country.

We need no party just one we just keep fighting with each other while the government fuck us.:furious:

[foodcourtdruide]

As a democrat, the direction of the republican party has me smiling from ear-to-ear. Today, Dick Cheney made this claim:

<object width="448" height="368"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailykostv.com/flv/player.swf"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="flashvars" value="config=http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001303/vxml.php?448"></param><embed src="http://www.dailykostv.com/flv/player.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="448" height="368" flashvars="config=http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001303/vxml.php?448"></embed></object>

Another words....moderates....get the fuck out.

Wow, just wow. If the republicans had any real party leadership they would be distancing themselves from Cheney and Limbaugh, instead they are embracing them. Insane.

[TheMojoPin]

Nothing would make me happier than to see the Republican party move to the extreme right and the Dems go hard to the left.

Maybe then we'd finally have a viable third party in this country.

We've had the main two parties go extreme in the past.

It doesn't create a viable national third party.

Nothing ever will.

Accept it. This country has always been a two-party gal on the national level.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Statement released with the video – which – face it - just watch it – it is totally fucking tame by all measures:

“Over the last 100 days, it has become clear that the Administration has no comprehensive plan to confront the threat from radical jihadists. From the decision to close a terrorist detention camp with no plan for what to do with the terrorists housed there to the decision to selectively release information about interrogation programs, the Administration’s policies have been driven by politics, not by an overarching strategy to protect our nation. On day 101 of this Administration, the American people are beginning to ask some serious questions about what Democrats in Washington are doing to keep America safe. Republicans want to work with the White House and Democrats in Congress to protect our nation, but the Administration first must make a commitment to a comprehensive plan to fight the terrorist threat. So far, we haven’t seen that.”

Not to mention the recent worldwide lame-ass apology tour by the WH.

What, exactly, is the strategy? Haven’t seen anything yet other than apologies and talk talk talk. So far, no doubt , NO DOUBT, all the extremists just have to be laughing.

Totally agree with every fucking word.

[underdog]

Statement released with the video – which – face it - just watch it – it is totally fucking tame by all measures:

“Over the last 100 days, it has become clear that the Administration has no comprehensive plan to confront the threat from radical jihadists. From the decision to close a terrorist detention camp with no plan for what to do with the terrorists housed there to the decision to selectively release information about interrogation programs, the Administration’s policies have been driven by politics, not by an overarching strategy to protect our nation. On day 101 of this Administration, the American people are beginning to ask some serious questions about what Democrats in Washington are doing to keep America safe. Republicans want to work with the White House and Democrats in Congress to protect our nation, but the Administration first must make a commitment to a comprehensive plan to fight the terrorist threat. So far, we haven’t seen that.”

Not to mention the recent worldwide lame-ass apology tour by the WH.

What, exactly, is the strategy? Haven’t seen anything yet other than apologies and talk talk talk. So far, no doubt , NO DOUBT, all the extremists just have to be laughing.

Totally agree with every fucking word.


OHNOES! TERRORISTS!

[Death Metal Moe]

Statement released with the video – which – face it - just watch it – it is totally fucking tame by all measures:

“Over the last 100 days, it has become clear that the Administration has no comprehensive plan to confront the threat from radical jihadists. From the decision to close a terrorist detention camp with no plan for what to do with the terrorists housed there to the decision to selectively release information about interrogation programs, the Administration’s policies have been driven by politics, not by an overarching strategy to protect our nation. On day 101 of this Administration, the American people are beginning to ask some serious questions about what Democrats in Washington are doing to keep America safe. Republicans want to work with the White House and Democrats in Congress to protect our nation, but the Administration first must make a commitment to a comprehensive plan to fight the terrorist threat. So far, we haven’t seen that.”

Not to mention the recent worldwide lame-ass apology tour by the WH.

What, exactly, is the strategy? Haven’t seen anything yet other than apologies and talk talk talk. So far, no doubt , NO DOUBT, all the extremists just have to be laughing.

Totally agree with every fucking word.


Yes, because you don't see anything but bombs and occupation as progress or strategy. If Obama dropped a Daisy Cutter on some "savages" would you feel safer in your home?

[TheMojoPin]

Wait, why would terrorists ever come out with a pro-US government statement? Of course they're going to try and trash anything any administration does. Durrrr.

[underdog]

If Obama dropped a Daisy Cutter on some "savages" would you feel safer in your home?

Duh. They hate our freedom.

[KnoxHarrington]

Duh. They hate our freedom.

OMG WATERBOARD TEH MUD PEOPLE

[HBox]

libs.

[The Jays]

In the name of fear, we have sent, re-sent, re-re-sent, and re-re-re-sent our troops to fight in Iraq, to clean up a mess we made in the name of fear, in the name of weapons of mass destruction which were not there, (and which unstable countries like Pakistan DO have, and the Taliban have been inching closer to their capital every day). And today, we get to hear a story about a soldier, having served multiple tours in Iraq, who goes ballistic on his fellow soldiers at a stress facility. Apparently, not only have we not learned anything from Vietnam regarding getting into wars that we are not meant to fight, we haven't ever learned to stop sending our vets back over time and time again because, newsflash, IT FUCKS UP OUR OWN SOLDIER'S HEADS.

This is what fear makes us do, because we are so afraid of terrorism, we sacrifice our own men and women, we sacrifice their bodies and their minds just to keep us safe. How is this keeping us safe? How is tour after tour after tour keeping us safe without giving up a part of who we are as a country, a part that makes us humane and moral beings? How are we being true to our fellow countrymen by scrambling their fucking brains with unnecessary wars against people who fight with actual purpose, to keep foreigners out of their land that we occupy? We are doing the things that we ultimately fear the Muslim world will do to us, the same thing we were afraid that the communist world would do to us. What's the point of even having a fucking enemy, to perpetuate a state of government where we must always be at war? Is that how we make progress in this world? Is that why we need Republicans in charge, to make sure we have people in power who know how to invent enemies for us to fight? Drugs, Terror, Communism, Socialism, is fighting these words what pushes us towards progress?

[underdog]

In the name of fear, we have sent, re-sent, re-re-sent, and re-re-re-sent our troops to fight in Iraq, to clean up a mess we made in the name of fear, in the name of weapons of mass destruction which were not there, (and which unstable countries like Pakistan DO have, and the Taliban have been inching closer to their capital every day). And today, we get to hear a story about a soldier, having served multiple tours in Iraq, who goes ballistic on his fellow soldiers at a stress facility. Apparently, not only have we not learned anything from Vietnam regarding getting into wars that we are not meant to fight, we haven't ever learned to stop sending our vets back over time and time again because, newsflash, IT FUCKS UP OUR OWN SOLDIER'S HEADS.

This is what fear makes us do, because we are so afraid of terrorism, we sacrifice our own men and women, we sacrifice their bodies and their minds just to keep us safe. How is this keeping us safe? How is tour after tour after tour keeping us safe without giving up a part of who we are as a country, a part that makes us humane and moral beings? How are we being true to our fellow countrymen by scrambling their fucking brains with unnecessary wars against people who fight with actual purpose, to keep foreigners out of their land that we occupy? We are doing the things that we ultimately fear the Muslim world will do to us, the same thing we were afraid that the communist world would do to us. What's the point of even having a fucking enemy, to perpetuate a state of government where we must always be at war? Is that how we make progress in this world? Is that why we need Republicans in charge, to make sure we have people in power who know how to invent enemies for us to fight? Drugs, Terror, Communism, Socialism, is fighting these words what pushes us towards progress?

Stop being such a socialist little faggot.

[The Jays]

And another thing, we don't need to be waterboarding people to make us all safer, no matter what Cheney says. You know how we protect people from terrorism? By having our leaders read the fucking reports that comes their desk.

"Oh, a report on how people of Muslim faith are actively seeking to fly planes into buildings? Well if his name ain't Saddam Hussein, then I've got another name for this report, 'Garbage.'"

Ever since 9/11, Cheney and his fucking crew have felt like such dicks they became the devil they've despised for years, they grew the size of government out of fucking guilt because they fucked the intel up so bad. They tried to atone for their sins by punishing people illegally, and they changed the text of the rules to make it look legal. They tried to kill two birds with one stone by taking out Iraq and Saddam, and meanwhile Osama roams free, the Taliban roam free, the one government that housed the terrorists that hurt us still roams free, and is this close to getting to Pakistan, and then shit really gets hairy, all because we had to commit our troops to Iraq, and Bush and Cheney said everything was hunky fucking dorey.

[led37zep]

Has there ever been a Republican in this thread?

[epo]

Has there ever been a Republican in this thread?

Fez's Assistant has 5 posts and Knowledged One has 1. Although Knowledged One thinks we are all faggot socialist pussies.

[Crispy123]

Statement released with the video – which – face it - just watch it – it is totally fucking tame by all measures:

“Over the last 100 days, it has become clear that the Administration has no comprehensive plan to confront the threat from radical jihadists. From the decision to close a terrorist detention camp with no plan for what to do with the terrorists housed there to the decision to selectively release information about interrogation programs, the Administration’s policies have been driven by politics, not by an overarching strategy to protect our nation. On day 101 of this Administration, the American people are beginning to ask some serious questions about what Democrats in Washington are doing to keep America safe. Republicans want to work with the White House and Democrats in Congress to protect our nation, but the Administration first must make a commitment to a comprehensive plan to fight the terrorist threat. So far, we haven’t seen that.”

Not to mention the recent worldwide lame-ass apology tour by the WH.

What, exactly, is the strategy? Haven’t seen anything yet other than apologies and talk talk talk. So far, no doubt , NO DOUBT, all the extremists just have to be laughing.

Totally agree with every fucking word.


What exactly was the strategy of the last administration? Do nothing, wait for terrorists to attack and then invade the wrong fucking country. No wonder the right wing is dissapointed with Obama, they are idiots with no idea how to defend a nation from terrorists. Face it Obamas record on terrorists is infinitely better than Bush and Cheneys. Just being angry and wanting to fuck shit up does not make anyone safer.

And when did we start sending the white house on world-wide tours? Keep that shit in DC!

[AKA]

Nothing would make me happier than to see the Republican party move to the extreme right and the Dems go hard to the left.

Problem is, the Democrats actually seemed to learn their lesson and have been broadening the party to be more accepting to more conservative "blue dog" Dems - those that left for Reagan 30 years ago - look at the last two election cycles. The GOP, by contrast, really are becoming smaller and smaller by design because they are the party of litnes tests. The sad thing, people like my father, just see the word "Republican" and back it blindly, even though they no longer stand for what he stands for.

Has there ever been a Republican in this thread?

No - they've all become "libertarians"

:laugh:

[CountryBob]

Boy, everybody was fired up and wanting blood after 911 - but now it seems that everybody has pulled a 180 and wants to embrace those fucking savages that killed thousands on our soil. Amazing this country that I love.

[EliSnow]

Boy, everybody was fired up and wanting blood after 911 - but now it seems that everybody has pulled a 180 and wants to embrace those fucking savages that killed thousands on our soil. Amazing this country that I love.

Yes, because there is no middle ground between all out nuking all Arabs and embracing the terrorists.

BTW, that was sarcasm. No one wants to "embrace the savages" responsible for 9/11.

Oh, and as others have shown in other threads:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/bush_hand_holding.jpg

[Death Metal Moe]

Boy, everybody was fired up and wanting blood after 911 - but now it seems that everybody has pulled a 180 and wants to embrace those fucking savages that killed thousands on our soil. Amazing this country that I love.

Anyone who uses the word "savage" in a serious posting way gets put on my ignore list from now on.

It's funny when Anthony says it every now and then in his rants, it's pathetic and ignorant in a message board discussion.

[underdog]

No one wants to embrace the savages responsible for 9/11.

I do. Passionately.

[DarkHippie]

Yes, because there is no middle ground between all out nuking all Arabs and embracing the terrorists.

BTW, that was sarcasm. No one wants to "embrace the savages" responsible for 9/11.

Oh, and as others have shown in other threads:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/bush_hand_holding.jpg

To be fair, holding hands is customary in arab culture. It would be rude not to.

[EliSnow]

To be fair, holding hands is customary in arab culture. It would be rude not to.

The point of my picture is that the Republicans criticizing Obama for "bowing" to the Saudis, etc. is hypocrisy since a republican president engaged in somewhat similar gestures with Saudi officials. Not really criticizing W on this one.

[high fly]

We've had the main two parties go extreme in the past.

It doesn't create a viable national third party.

Nothing ever will.

Accept it. This country has always been a two-party gal on the national level.



Yes, we're definitely bi and will stay that way.
In a small-minded political sense I like seeing the Republicans shoot themselves in the foot thisaways.
The extreme right fringe is ruining the party and the last I heard, something like only 27 percent of voters identified themselves as being Republican while 41 pecent identified with being Democrats.

In a larger sense I don't think this is good for the country.
The Republicans need to figure out that defeat lies ahead if they think appealing to a smaller and smaller segment of voters is the way to go.


And please, don't bore me with this need to be consistent with their "core values" bullshit.
Aside from gun ownership, abortion and hatred for gays, the rest of their "principles" come and go like herpes.

Just look at how, over the last 8 years, their belief in smaller government went into remission.
Same with their "principle" of having a less intrusive federal government.
Same with their insistence we should have a less imperial foreign policy.
Same with their hard core stance on balanced budgets.
Same with the way "rock-ribbed Republicans" wanted the federal government out of the local school system.
Same with their disdain for unfunded mandates.

Look how much they wanted "activist judges" with the Terry Schiavo case.
And where did their belief in "states rights" go when California decriminalized marijuana?

[Death Metal Moe]

Yes, we're definitely bi and will stay that way.
In a small-minded political sense I like seeing the Republicans shoot themselves in the foot thisaways.
The extreme right fringe is ruining the party and the last I heard, something like only 27 percent of voters identified themselves as being Republican while 41 pecent identified with being Democrats.

In a larger sense I don't think this is good for the country.
The Republicans need to figure out that defeat lies ahead if they think appealing to a smaller and smaller segment of voters is the way to go.


And please, don't bore me with this need to be consistent with their "core values" bullshit.
Aside from gun ownership, abortion and hatred for gays, the rest of their "principles" come and go like herpes.

Just look at how, over the last 8 years, their belief in smaller government went into remission.
Same with their "principle" of having a less intrusive federal government.
Same with their insistence we should have a less imperial foreign policy.
Same with their hard core stance on balanced budgets.
Same with the way "rock-ribbed Republicans" wanted the federal government out of the local school system.
Same with their disdain for unfunded mandates.

Look how much they wanted "activist judges" with the Terry Schiavo case.
And where did their belief in "states rights" go when California decriminalized marijuana?

You pretty much outlined why I changed my political affiliation officially last year.

[yojimbo7248]

I just get angry when conservatives criticize us liberals or embracing savages. what happens behind closed doors is neither the government's or GOP's business.

[Gvac]

As a democrat, the direction of the republican party has me smiling from ear-to-ear. Today, Dick Cheney made this claim:

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Another words....moderates....get the fuck out.

What did you expect him to say...that he'd rather embrace a man who publicly criticized the Republican agenda and backed the Democrat candidate for President, or a man who has always been staunchly Conservative?

It's like asking a Dem if they'd rather have Randi Rhodes or Joe Lieberman.

[led37zep]

Anyone who uses the word "savage" in a serious posting way gets put on my ignore list from now on.

It's funny when Anthony says it every now and then in his rants, it's pathetic and ignorant in a message board discussion.

Poor Hammersavage.

[epo]

What did you expect him to say...that he'd rather embrace a man who publicly criticized the Republican agenda and backed the Democrat candidate for President, or a man who has always been staunchly Conservative?

It's like asking a Dem if they'd rather have Randi Rhodes or Joe Lieberman.

I expected him to say the same thing I expected Michael Steele to say:

"Rush Limbaugh, while a strong voice for the conservative movement, is an entertainer. Obviously he is an excellent entertainer, but he does not represent the depth nor the breadth of our party.

I prefer to work in a political party that operates with the "big-tent" theory that Ronald Reagan embraced, in which a Colin Powell, an Arlen Specter, a Dick Cheney and a Rush Limbaugh, are all accepted.

Finding common ground and sharing core values, no matter our differences is how we will rebuild our party."

But neither had the foresight nor the guts to say it. Instead, both took off their pants and bent over a table for a radio host who has no experience in governing.

[Gvac]

He was asked an either/or question and answered it.

I prefer that over someone who says "neither."

That doesn't show keen insight or intelligence in my eyes; it shows the inability to make a decision.

[epo]

He was asked an either/or question and answered it.

I prefer that over someone who says "neither."

That doesn't show keen insight or intelligence in my eyes; it shows the inability to make a decision.

You are asking for the simplistic answer to a complex situation. You of all people know that the world isn't always as cut and dry as a either/or, and the world of politics is full of nuance.

To deliver that type of answer, shows the lack of vision that the former Vice President truly has for his party. If that is how the "braintrust" of the republican party is thinking, it explains why they are currently getting their asses whipped.

[Gvac]

To me it's like when we try to have a "Nazis have your family" type thread here. You're asked a preposterous question and asked to choose one answer, no matter how absurd or difficult.

I despise the people who try to create a third possibility or simply say "neither."

You get no honesty that way.

[badmonkey]

The point of my picture is that the Republicans criticizing Obama for "bowing" to the Saudis, etc. is hypocrisy since a republican president engaged in somewhat similar gestures with Saudi officials. Not really criticizing W on this one.

Looking around the internet, I'm only finding statements that under Islam, you do not bow to anyone other than Allah. Even martial arts only gets a slight nod of the head.
Sources:
IslamChannel.TV (http://www.islamchannel.tv/forums/showForumReply.aspx?forumID=17689&name=Culture%20and%20Community&catID=6&mode=)
http://www.islam-qa.com/ (http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10428/bow)

I doubt the Saudi king was expecting him to bow at all. Especially since no American president has ever bowed to him before.

[Death Metal Moe]

To me it's like when we try to have a "Nazis have your family" type thread here. You're asked a preposterous question and asked to choose one answer, no matter how absurd or difficult.

I despise the people who try to create a third possibility or simply say "neither."

You get no honesty that way.

I don't elect people who I expect to answer "If the Nazis had your parents..." questions.

[Gvac]

So you prefer electing dishonest people and never finding out what they really think and feel?

No wonder we keep electing the exact same politicians over and over and over again...

[Death Metal Moe]

So you prefer electing dishonest people and never finding out what they really think and feel?

No wonder we keep electing the exact same politicians over and over and over again...

I elect people who I hope take into account the gray areas of life and consider it's effect on all people then make decision accordingly. I don't need Two Face flipping a coin and going with it.

[Gvac]

I elect people who I hope take into account the gray areas of life and consider it's effect on all people then make decision accordingly. I don't need Two Face flipping a coin and going with it.

I said nothing about flipping a coin.

I said I prefer someone who can make a hard decision.

If I said to you QUICK - WHOLE WHEAT OR RYE???

I don't want to hear "neither...white bread."

Like I said, it shows a complete inability to make a decision.

[Death Metal Moe]

I said nothing about flipping a coin.

I said I prefer someone who can make a hard decision.

If I said to you QUICK - WHOLE WHEAT OR RYE???

I don't want to hear "neither...white bread."

Like I said, it shows a complete inability to make a decision.

But life usually doesn't throw a "This or That" decision in front of us. There are many factors to consider. I want someone who takes as many things into account as they can and comes to an educated decisions.

[Gvac]

But life usually doesn't throw a "This or That" decision in front of us. There are many factors to consider. I want someone who takes as many things into account as they can and comes to an educated decisions.

Of course you want someone who can consider all options, but listen to what I'm saying...he was asked an either/or question.

That's it.

If you're President and we're a few seconds away from WWIII you have to know if you're ready to push that button or not.

No alternatives...it's YES or NO. ATTACK or RETREAT. FIRE THE NUKES or STAND DOWN.

That's it.

No gray area.

[Death Metal Moe]

Of course you want someone who can consider all options, but listen to what I'm saying...he was asked an either/or question.

That's it.

If you're President and we're a few seconds away from WWIII you have to know if you're ready to push that button or not.

No alternatives...it's YES or NO. ATTACK or RETREAT. FIRE THE NUKES or STAND DOWN.

That's it.

No gray area.

Fine. We're talking about a Sunday morning interview.

Don't worry, I know there's no Gray area for fucking Cheney. He proved that for 8 long years. I expect nothing of him and am never disappointed.

[Gvac]

Fine. We're talking about a Sunday morning interview.

Don't worry, I know there's no Gray area for fucking Cheney. He proved that for 8 long years. I expect nothing of him and am never disappointed.

And you know that of him because of the way he acts and answers questions.

At least he's honest.

Not like some politicians who come into office promising "change" and then revert to business as usual.

Cheney was exactly what he said he was.

I respect him a lot more for that than being a phony, regardless of whether I agree with his political philosophies or not.

[Death Metal Moe]

Every politician makes campaign promises they can't keep. Whatever news agency wasn't for who won always keeps track of it. That's not to defend the practice, it's one of the reasons I really start to hate politics sometimes but it happens.

And Dick Cheney hasn't shown any real insight or strength. All he does is tow the party line every chance he gets. He also is doing the "8 Shitty Years" Damage Control tour. Please, let's not attach any dignity to his motives. Don't fool yourself, his opinion changes as fast as it needs to in order to make himself look better, keep his friends in office or help save himself. They all do it, it's just that Dick Cheney is more revolting than most.

[high fly]

The point of my picture is that the Republicans criticizing Obama for "bowing" to the Saudis, etc. is hypocrisy since a republican president engaged in somewhat similar gestures with Saudi officials. Not really criticizing W on this one.


I think it is more than just hypocrisy.
In my opinion, this issue is representative of where and how the conservatives have driven into the ditch.
Over the last two elections they have trotted out what are largely minor issues in order to attack their opponents and to attempt to frame and identify them in the eyes of the electorate as "radical far leftists."
They concentrate on things like flag pins and birth certificates.

What they do not understand is America got sick of all that several years ago.
America wanted to hear more of a positive message on larger issues and got sick of the way conservatives attack opponents.

The opening post of this thread illustrates perfectly the point they don't get it yet.
It is exactly the sort of thing which has caused them to be trounced the last two elections and, far from the permanent majority Karl Rove envisioned, they now face the prospect of being a regional party with a narrow focus that prevents them from appealing to enough of the electorate to win the presidency or take back the seats they have lost in Congress...

[Death Metal Moe]

I think it is more than just hypocrisy.
In my opinion, this issue is representative of where and how the conservatives have driven into the ditch.
Over the last two elections they have trotted out what are largely minor issues in order to attack their opponents and to attempt to frame and identify them in the eyes of the electorate as "radical far leftists."
They concentrate on things like flag pins and birth certificates.

What they do not understand is America got sick of all that several years ago.
America wanted to hear more of a positive message on larger issues and got sick of the way conservatives attack opponents.

The opening post of this thread illustrates perfectly the point they don't get it yet.
It is exactly the sort of thing which has caused them to be trounced the last two elections and, far from the permanent majority Karl Rove envisioned, they now face the prospect of being a regional party with a narrow focus that prevents them from appealing to enough of the electorate to win the presidency or take back the seats they have lost in Congress...

Although I agree with your point about Americans getting sick of the GOP's message, don't give them too much credit. They'll fall for some more bullshit eventually.

[Gvac]

Although I agree with your point about Americans getting sick of the GOP's message, don't give them too much credit. They'll fall for some more bullshit eventually.

Precisely!

Look at how the Republicans attack the Dems and their supporters get furious. Then the Dems attack the Repubs for the same shit and can't understand why their supporters get furious!

It's classic 'divide and conquer' techniques and people have been falling for it (and will continue to fall for it) forever.

This nonsense will only stop when people truly learn to view the world through unbiased eyes, not "democrat eyes" or "republican eyes" but human eyes.

The "we're always right...they're always wrong" school of thinking has to stop.

It's childish and absurd.

[high fly]

Although I agree with your point about Americans getting sick of the GOP's message, don't give them too much credit. They'll fall for some more bullshit eventually.


I am sure they will.
I am thinking in terms of tactics as much as the message itself.
Those tactics can be traced back to a fellow named Harry Dent, who literally carried a piss bucket for Strom Thurmond, and was the godfather politically to Lee Atwater and Karl Rove.
Their brand of hate politics became refined in the 80s and has worked all this time, but now it has gone the way of the propeller-driven fighter plane and the GOP hasn't figured it out yet.

Many will say, "The Democrats do it too" and have enough examples to make an argument, but I think what matters is the degree to which they do it.
When they play politics, the conservatives go for the throat and I think they have gotten to where they have overdone it and don't realize it.
The Democrats just don't have the same viciousness in the attack.
If things were reversed, the Republicans would be impeaching a Democratic president and vice president for torture, domestic surveillance and who knows what else and would have special prosecutors dining on the asses of the likes of Yoo, Bybee, Addington and others.

[Death Metal Moe]

Precisely!

Look at how the Republicans attack the Dems and their supporters get furious. Then the Dems attack the Repubs for the same shit and can't understand why their supporters get furious!

It's classic 'divide and conquer' techniques and people have been falling for it (and will continue to fall for it) forever.

This nonsense will only stop when people truly learn to view the world through unbiased eyes, not "democrat eyes" or "republican eyes" but human eyes.

The "we're always right...they're always wrong" school of thinking has to stop.

It's childish and absurd.

See, even though you and I were having a short disagreement on Cheney, I totally agree with you on this point. It's a dog and pony show. But it's what the population eats up so I don't know what we can really do to get them to think for themselves.

[Death Metal Moe]

I am sure they will.
I am thinking in terms of tactics as much as the message itself.
Those tactics can be traced back to a fellow named Harry Dent, who literally carried a piss bucket for Strom Thurmond, and was the godfather politically to Lee Atwater and Karl Rove.
Their brand of hate politics became refined in the 80s and has worked all this time, but now it has gone the way of the propeller-driven fighter plane and the GOP hasn't figured it out yet.

Many will say, "The Democrats do it too" and have enough examples to make an argument, but I think what matters is the degree to which they do it.
When they play politics, the conservatives go for the throat and I think they have gotten to where they have overdone it and don't realize it.
The Democrats just don't have the same viciousness in the attack.
If things were reversed, the Republicans would be impeaching a Democratic president and vice president for torture, domestic surveillance and who knows what else and would have special prosecutors dining on the asses of the likes of Yoo, Bybee, Addington and others.

Oh I totally disagree with that. I think right now they don't have to be as vicious, but the extremes in the Democratic party have been just as big a bunch of cunts and the Republicans. When we're talking about the worst of both parties, they are both equally capable of the same bullshit.

What the Republicans have done is sold their soul to the religious right and now a lot of people are taking a step back, seeing what happened to get a guy elected twice and not wanting to deal anymore. The Republicans have been hijacked by some of the extremists in their own party, and unless they take it back, they will continue to be irrelevant. And I'm not sure if it's The GOP's extremism that makes the Democrats look so good now or the fact that the Democrats are actually good, but none the less, they look better at this moment.

But yea, I hate that "Us vs. Them" shit. This isn't Wackbag, let's not fall into that.

[high fly]

I think they can both be equally vile and equally as big a assholes, I think the Republicans have more of a killer instinct.
I think the Democratic Party has tendency to occasionally try to get along or avoid conflict by "moving forward" whereas the Republicans will stand toe-to-toe and fight to the death.

We saw this when Clinton was elected and they decided to try to just go forward and let it slide that Bush41 had pardoned all those Iran/Contra dudes, thus covering his own ass.
I think that kind of gave encouragement to the Bush43 administration that they could get away with what they did.

My main point is in a fight, the Republicans will go for the jugular and will fight like the Tasmanian devil, but the Democrats tend to be happy to win on points and will shy away from gouging out eyeballs....

[spoon]

Yes, we're definitely bi and will stay that way.
In a small-minded political sense I like seeing the Republicans shoot themselves in the foot thisaways.
The extreme right fringe is ruining the party and the last I heard, something like only 27 percent of voters identified themselves as being Republican while 41 pecent identified with being Democrats.

In a larger sense I don't think this is good for the country.
The Republicans need to figure out that defeat lies ahead if they think appealing to a smaller and smaller segment of voters is the way to go.


And please, don't bore me with this need to be consistent with their "core values" bullshit.
Aside from gun ownership, abortion and hatred for gays, the rest of their "principles" come and go like herpes.

Just look at how, over the last 8 years, their belief in smaller government went into remission.
Same with their "principle" of having a less intrusive federal government.
Same with their insistence we should have a less imperial foreign policy.
Same with their hard core stance on balanced budgets.
Same with the way "rock-ribbed Republicans" wanted the federal government out of the local school system.
Same with their disdain for unfunded mandates.

Look how much they wanted "activist judges" with the Terry Schiavo case.
And where did their belief in "states rights" go when California decriminalized marijuana?

HF always sums things up so nicely. Bravo.

[A.J.]

To be fair, holding hands is customary in arab culture. It would be rude not to.

I had that happen once with one of my Saudi hosts. So uncomfortable.

[beachbum]

HF always sums things up so nicely. Bravo.

I second the motion.


Just a couple of points,remember during the Bush/Kerry election how every time Kerry gained a couple of polling points the terror alert got elevated to high?Then after the election miraculously no more terror alerts.

Fearmongering and propaganda have become the bread and butter of the GOP over the last ten years.Not since Himler has propaganda been so effective.

It will never cease to amaze me how politicians get the American people to side against their own best interest by selling them on hot button topics that they never try to affect once they get into office.

[Serpico1103]

I second the motion.
Just a couple of points,remember during the Bush/Kerry election how every time Kerry gained a couple of polling points the terror alert got elevated to high?Then after the election miraculously no more terror alerts.
Fearmongering and propaganda have become the bread and butter of the GOP over the last ten years.Not since Himler has propaganda been so effective.
It will never cease to amaze me how politicians get the American people to side against their own best interest by selling them on hot button topics that they never try to affect once they get into office.

But, they hate our freedom. The terrorists I mean, not the GOP. Well, ok, the GOP does seem to have a problem with an individual's freedom, but I was talking about the freedom hating terrorists, whose motive for attacking us was a hatred of freedom. :wallbash:

[beachbum]

The rep. party is motivated by rage and fear.
They rage at anyone who is in the least bit different or dares to have a different idea.

They fear many things.
1.That the dem's might fuck up and fix something making them look more incompetent.
2.Action.If they disagree with the administration they are afraid or incapable of offering an alternative.
3.Inaction.If they sit and do nothing,which seems to be their plan,Obama might actually cause something positive to happen thus assuring another four years.
4.Right wing media.God forbid a republican would actually support something the president wants to do.The Hannity/Limbaugh faction will run them out of town on a rail for being a pussy.
5.Knowledge.Why let a bunch of facts and science and junk fuck up a perfectly good platform?
6.An informed electorate.They are hoping that Joe Voter doesn't figure out that while they weren't wholly responsible for the economic collapse they were at least asleep at the wheel for 8 years when they had the ability to stop it or at least slow it down.Also they hold the record for being in power during the largest attack ever on American soil and the 8 billion a week that we are spending in Iraq.It's odd how that never factors into any right wing budget/deficit discussion.


My favorite rep. characteristic is by far their obstinance.Obama/democrats make a proposal.Republicans mother fuck said proposal.
Obama asks for an alternative plan.Republicans say"We don't have an alternative plan.Our plan is to mother fuck your plan."


I am not an Obama maniac.He is our commander in chief and I do hope that he does well.To hope otherwise(aka Rush) is anti-american.If we don't have hope then is there even any point in going on?

[SonOfSmeagol]

Yes, because you don't see anything but bombs and occupation as progress or strategy. If Obama dropped a Daisy Cutter on some "savages" would you feel safer in your home?
Your words, not mine. Yet, you offer nothing whatsoever new. The bho strategy remains undefined.

[SonOfSmeagol]

What exactly was the strategy of the last administration? Do nothing, wait for terrorists to attack and then invade the wrong fucking country. No wonder the right wing is dissapointed with Obama, they are idiots with no idea how to defend a nation from terrorists. Face it Obamas record on terrorists is infinitely better than Bush and Cheneys. Just being angry and wanting to fuck shit up does not make anyone safer.

And when did we start sending the white house on world-wide tours? Keep that shit in DC!

Stilll looking for the bho strategy. Enlighten me.

[Death Metal Moe]

Your words, not mine. Yet, you offer nothing whatsoever new. The bho strategy remains undefined.

Not my words, your inferred meaning.

Of course, let's just shut all lines of communication again. Let's label countries. Let's just keep it up, it got us very, very far.

I am thrilled there's a president in power who is willing to actually use diplomacy and open lines of communication instead of being so close minded.

The age of cowboy politics is at a close and it's a great day indeed.

[Death Metal Moe]

Stilll looking for the bho strategy. Enlighten me.

You want to explain the Bush strategy to me? Because all I see is failure. Why not tell me what worked for 8 years, in your humble opinion.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Last couple of pages, for the most part, is about as much groupthink bullshit as I have ever seen. What the fuck you afraid of? "Never Again" shall the Reps be in power? The Dems have the WH, House and Senate --- go for it!!! Still looking for the light and not seeing it so far. Aaaahhhhh, Nov 2010, nothing to lose!!

[Death Metal Moe]

Last couple of pages, for the most part, is about as much groupthink bullshit as I have ever seen. What the fuck you afraid of? "Never Again" shall the Reps be in power? The Dems have the WH, House and Senate --- go for it!!! Still looking for the light and not seeing it so far. Aaaahhhhh, Nov 2010, nothing to lose!!

You can label and and try to marginalize us, or you can be a grown up for once and join the discussion.

[SonOfSmeagol]

You can label and and try to marginalize us, or you can be a grown up for once and join the discussion.

I don't like you, Death Metal Moe, and I'm now sorry, once again, that I replied to you earlier.

[Death Metal Moe]

I don't like you, Death Metal Moe, and I'm now sorry, once again, that I replied to you earlier.


Ummmm, OK. Did I offend you because we are on different sides of a discussion in a political thread?

I really don't know how to properly reply to your post. I mean you had a lot to say, I countered and now you're sorry you responded?

OK man, if that's the way you want to end it. I'm not ready to attack you, label you and dismiss you. We could have had a discussion. Your choice.

[epo]

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Get it....the spending liberal bought an expensive DOG!

[led37zep]

You can label and and try to marginalize us, or you can be a grown up for once and join the discussion.

This isn't directed at you directly Moe, you've actually been pretty decent in this thread.

However, this whole thread has been about labels and exaggerated grouping of all republicans into a certain mindset of hate.
From Beachbum
The rep. party is motivated by rage and fear.


Plus look at the title of the thread? How can you expect to have an open and honest political discussion about the GOP when the opening thread is inflammatory to begin with?

[Death Metal Moe]

This isn't directed at you directly Moe, you've actually been pretty decent in this thread.

However, this whole thread has been about labels and exaggerated grouping of all republicans into a certain mindset of hate.
From Beachbum



Plus look at the title of the thread? How can you expect to have an open and honest political discussion about the GOP when the opening thread is inflammatory to begin with?

Yea, I'm ready to admit the Republicans are in a shitstorm within their own party right now but I'm NOT ready to admit they're any worse at being vicious assholes than the Democrats are when their backs are against the wall.

I'd just like a more honest, less "Talk Radio" driven discussion about this.

[SonOfSmeagol]

The rep. party is motivated by rage and fear.
They rage at anyone who is in the least bit different or dares to have a different idea.

They fear many things.
1.That the dem's might fuck up and fix something making them look more incompetent.
2.Action.If they disagree with the administration they are afraid or incapable of offering an alternative.
3.Inaction.If they sit and do nothing,which seems to be their plan,Obama might actually cause something positive to happen thus assuring another four years.
4.Right wing media.God forbid a republican would actually support something the president wants to do.The Hannity/Limbaugh faction will run them out of town on a rail for being a pussy.
5.Knowledge.Why let a bunch of facts and science and junk fuck up a perfectly good platform?
6.An informed electorate.They are hoping that Joe Voter doesn't figure out that while they weren't wholly responsible for the economic collapse they were at least asleep at the wheel for 8 years when they had the ability to stop it or at least slow it down.Also they hold the record for being in power during the largest attack ever on American soil and the 8 billion a week that we are spending in Iraq.It's odd how that never factors into any right wing budget/deficit discussion.

My favorite rep. characteristic is by far their obstinance.Obama/democrats make a proposal.Republicans mother fuck said proposal.
Obama asks for an alternative plan.Republicans say"We don't have an alternative plan.Our plan is to mother fuck your plan."

I am not an Obama maniac.He is our commander in chief and I do hope that he does well.To hope otherwise(aka Rush) is anti-american.If we don't have hope then is there even any point in going on?
Seriously, I really don't understand any of this.

[epo]

Yea, I'm ready to admit the Republicans are in a shitstorm within their own party right now but I'm NOT ready to admit they're any worse at being vicious assholes than the Democrats are when their backs are against the wall.

I'd just like a more honest, less "Talk Radio" driven discussion about this.

Heck, as a partisan member of the Democratic Party, I'll be the first to admit that the republicans current message isn't about fear...because they don't have a message. That's been my whole point in this thread.

Its a normal process for a party to go through this, but this one seems odd to me because its being displayed so publicly.

[epo]

Maybe the Republican Party finally found their voice...in the persons of the "Young Conservatives (http://www.theyoungcons.com/)":

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I might laugh for a week about this shit.

[KatPw]

Boy, they wore out their shoehorn trying to make many of those lines fit.

[TheMojoPin]

I might laugh for a week about this shit.

Like that's going to be any different for the poor people of Milwuakee terrified of you walking down the street laughing insanely to yourself week after week.

[epo]

Like that's going to be any different for the poor people of Milwuakee terrified of you walking down the street laughing insanely to yourself week after week.

I can't wait to report you to the mods for your personal attacks. Jerk!

[Gvac]

I think these Young Cons got it goin' on, yo.

Don't be hatin'.

[TheMojoPin]

I can't wait to report you to the mods for your personal attacks. Jerk!

Just the facts, ma'am.