Phelps & Savage banned from UK

[furie]

httpThe names of some of the people barred from entering the UK for fostering extremism or hatred have been published for the first time.

Islamic extremists, white supremacists and a US radio host are among the 16 of 22 excluded in the five months to March to have been named by the Home Office.

Since 2005, the UK has been able to ban people who promote hatred, terrorist violence or serious criminal activity.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said coming to the UK should be a privilege.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8033060.stm)

[Death Metal Moe]

Only thing that pisses me off is this give Savage a reason to get his fucking name in the press.

Blech.

[WampusCrandle]

i can kinda understand Phelps, but why Savage? fuck the UK

[epo]

I can understand both, but I think in a "free society" its a bad idea. To foster free thought, one must tolerate the ugly thought as well. I would hope modern cultures are strong enough to survive a Fred Phelps or a Michael Savage.

[Death Metal Moe]

I can understand both, but I think in a "free society" its a bad idea. To foster free thought, one must tolerate the ugly thought as well. I would hope modern cultures are strong enough to survive a Fred Phelps or a Michael Savage.

Yes, this is the whole point here. I fucking hate Savage and all the other conservative windbag radio hosts, but I don't want to live in a country where they can't find an audience and sponsors. That's not America.

Fred Phelps is another story. He has some deep seeded sexuality issues to be so Anti-Gay. I mean seriously, look what he did to his own children! He made them all SOOOOO scared of homosexuals, there's something to the whole protesting too much thing. He's on the DL and denying it.

But again, he should get to be an ignorant ass in a Free America.

[WampusCrandle]

i don't understand how UK sees someone on the radio saying their opinion, and being paid for it, and someone who pickets dead soldiers' funerals. there is a difference.

[boosterp]

I can understand both, but I think in a "free society" its a bad idea. To foster free thought, one must tolerate the ugly thought as well. I would hope modern cultures are strong enough to survive a Fred Phelps or a Michael Savage.

True, very true.

On the other hand can we ban every member of the ACLU from this country?

[EliSnow]

Yes, this is the whole point here. I fucking hate Savage and all the other conservative windbag radio hosts, but I don't want to live in a country where they can't find an audience and sponsors. That's not America.

Fred Phelps is another story. He has some deep seeded sexuality issues to be so Anti-Gay. I mean seriously, look what he did to his own children! He made them all SOOOOO scared of homosexuals, there's something to the whole protesting too much thing. He's on the DL and denying it.

But again, he should get to be an ignorant ass in a Free America.

But it's not America. It's Great Britain. Traditionally, it has never been as free speech as the US tries to be.

And they have the right to forbid any "undesirables" from their country, just as we do. While I wouldn't want my country to draw this line, they did.

[epo]

True, very true.

On the other hand can we ban every member of the ACLU from this country?

I know you are joking about the ACLU members...but they are really slighted in this topic. As much as conservatives use them as a whipping post, they have often come to the defense of a Rush Limbaugh or a Michael Savage to protect their rights.

Its a very interesting CONUNDRUM.

[Death Metal Moe]

But it's not America. It's Great Britain. Traditionally, it has never been as free speech as the US tries to be.

And they have the right to forbid any "undesirables" from their country, just as we do. While I wouldn't want my country to draw this line, they did.

Right, but it's not intellectually honest. Britain just can't hold itself up as a home of free speech when they keep loudmouths out of their country.

The violent folks are a security risk, no problem. But to try to keep ideas out of your country, that's some 1984 shit that I can't be a part of.

[EliSnow]

Right, but it's not intellectually honest. Britain just can't hold itself up as a home of free speech when they keep loudmouths out of their country.

The violent folks are a security risk, no problem. But to try to keep ideas out of your country, that's some 1984 shit that I can't be a part of.

They hold themselves up as the home of free speech? Maybe they do, but I thought that was always our claim.

As I said, they have always been less willing to honor "free speech" than we do. Whether it's with regard to their defamations laws, their rules of government documents or other things, obscenity laws, etc. this type of action is not a suprrise.

[foodcourtdruide]

Hasn't anyone in the UK read the constitution?

[epo]

Hasn't anyone in the UK read the constitution?

I think we should throw teabags at the Magna Carta.

[WampusCrandle]

I think we should throw teabags at the Magna Carta.

i'll just teabag the queen - fuck her and screw UK

[Drunky McBetidont]

i'll just teabag the queen - fuck her and screw UK

you are going to suck on the queens balls? ewwww

[WampusCrandle]

you are going to suck on the queens balls? ewwww

sorry, i meant the other way around. though, i do wonder what her balls smell like ...

[LordJezo]

Simply the first of many steps that will be taken by world government to ban the travel of conservatives and to keep them in check.

Images of the mark of the beast from Revelations are conjured by things like this as now if you are not a branded Obama liberal you may soon be restricted in where you are allowed to go.

[EliSnow]

Simply the first of many steps that will be taken by world government to ban the travel of conservatives and to keep them in check.

Images of the mark of the beast from Revelations are conjured by things like this as now if you are not a branded Obama liberal you may soon be restricted in where you are allowed to go.

Lame.

[LordJezo]

Lame.

Conservatives are being targeted the world over, and this is just the latest example on how if you go against proper leftist thought your life will be damaged.

[EliSnow]

Conservatives are being targeted the world over, and this is just the latest example on how if you go against proper leftist thought your life will be damaged.

Even more lame.

[FezsAssistant]

What about Rev Sharpton, Jackson and Wright?
They're all hate mongers, too.

[FezsAssistant]

Should Edward Norton be placed on the list for his acting role in American History X? He was pretending to be hateful, just like Savage does.

[TheMojoPin]

Love how these guys are stepping to bat for Phelps.

Classy company you're keeping there, fellas.

[DarkHippie]

sorry, i meant the other way around. though, i do wonder what her balls smell like ...

Depends

[EliSnow]

Should Edward Norton be placed on the list for his acting role in American History X? He was pretending to be hateful, just like Savage does.

http://maprajna.com/prototypes/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/stretch-armstrong-ng.jpg

[earthbrown]

I can understand both, but I think in a "free society" its a bad idea. To foster free thought, one must tolerate the ugly thought as well. I would hope modern cultures are strong enough to survive a Fred Phelps or a Michael Savage.


I understand Phelps, as he purposly antagonizes people who are mourning the death of loved ones, in a disruptive manner. His trip to the UK could be to purposely do this.

Savage on the other hand, is a radio host, if you dont like what he says, DONT FUCKING LISTEN!!!! He would not be going to the UK to antagonize people.

I think the UK has a personal grudge, as SAVAGE has been very vocal at the policies of the UK government.


K

[epo]

Simply the first of many steps that will be taken by world government to ban the travel of conservatives and to keep them in check.

Images of the mark of the beast from Revelations are conjured by things like this as now if you are not a branded Obama liberal you may soon be restricted in where you are allowed to go.

Its about time. I want you squares out of my coffee shops so I can discuss sodomy without your dirty looks.

[topless_mike]

this is retribution (sp) for the US kicking their ass not once, but twice.

i say we invade the uk, plow it, and plant it.
with all the rain there, the farming would be amazing.

[epo]

What about Rev Sharpton, Jackson and Wright?
They're all hate mongers, too.

None of them tried to go to Great Britian this month.

Should Edward Norton be placed on the list for his acting role in American History X? He was pretending to be hateful, just like Savage does.

That's just stupid.

[epo]

I think the UK has a personal grudge, as SAVAGE has been very vocal at the policies of the UK government.

People listen to his show? Huh.

[FezsAssistant]

http://maprajna.com/prototypes/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/stretch-armstrong-ng.jpg

Michael Savage isn't his real name and he donated money to liberal Jerry Brown in real life. It's professional wrestling.

[FezsAssistant]

That's just stupid.

You're ignorant.

[TheMojoPin]

this is retribution (sp) for the US kicking their ass not once, but twice.

What are you talking about?

[EliSnow]

Michael Savage isn't his real name and he donated money to liberal Jerry Brown in real life. It's professional wrestling.

If it's a role, it's the only role by which the mass public know him.

Meanwhile, Edward Norton has appeared in a number of different roles in movies, all of which are different from his actual public persona.


So my picture stands:

http://maprajna.com/prototypes/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/stretch-armstrong-ng.jpg

[EliSnow]

You're ignorant.

Maybe he is, but his analysis of your comment is spot on.

[topless_mike]

What are you talking about?

i was trying to make a joke that the Uk is pissed off that the US beat them in 2 wars, so they have this no-entry list with some americans on them.

guess it didnt go well.

[TheMojoPin]

i was trying to make a joke that the Uk is pissed off that the US beat them in 2 wars, so they have this no-entry list with some americans on them.

guess it didnt go well.

We really only beat them once, and even that was largely due to them having to fight real wars elsewhere plus the assistance we got from the French.

If you're talking about the War of 1812, make no mistake, we got our asses fucking kicked up and down and left and right. The treaty we signed addressed none of the reasons we went to war in the first place, and the only significant battle we won was fought AFTER the war had actually ended.

[topless_mike]

We really only beat them once, and even that was largely due to them having to fight real wars elsewhere plus the assistance we got from the French.

If you're talking about the War of 1812, make no mistake, we got our asses fucking kicked up and down and left and right. The treaty we signed addressed none of the reasons we went to war in the first place, and the only significant battle we won was fought AFTER the war had actually ended.

:drunk:

[TheMojoPin]

I pee on your fun parade.

[Death Metal Moe]

They hold themselves up as the home of free speech? Maybe they do, but I thought that was always our claim.

As I said, they have always been less willing to honor "free speech" than we do. Whether it's with regard to their defamations laws, their rules of government documents or other things, obscenity laws, etc. this type of action is not a suprrise.

No, they don't. I was agreeing with you.

[EliSnow]

No, they don't. I was agreeing with you.

Okay.

[SatCam]

Phelps & Savage banned from UK

Maybe they banned Phelps because he's been so vocal about their cigarette smoking?

http://www.madebymark.com/madebymark/20050615_idaho-god-hates-fags.jpg

[badmonkey]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/FredSavage.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Phelpsbeijing.jpg

Why?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Michael_Phelps_with_President_Bush_-_20080811.jpeg

Okay...maybe... but what have they got against the kid from the Wonder Years?

[sr71blackbird]

Republicans are the new Taliban

[underdog]

Republicans are the new Taliban

That's not true. I actually understand where the Taliban are coming from.

[Serpico1103]

Simply the first of many steps that will be taken by world government to ban the travel of conservatives and to keep them in check.

Images of the mark of the beast from Revelations are conjured by things like this as now if you are not a branded Obama liberal you may soon be restricted in where you are allowed to go.

Is this what your conservative friends are telling you?

So, this world government will be liberal?
Will they jump right into communism?

You are a character, just like Gvacs'. Maybe even one of his.

[LordJezo]

Is this what your conservative friends are telling you?

So, this world government will be liberal?
Will they jump right into communism?

You are a character, just like Gvacs'. Maybe even one of his.

Nope, just looking at the news and commenting on it like many of America is thinking.

Conservatives are being banned from travel.

Meanwhile Obama poster children like Farrakhan (open Obama supporter) are still welcomed with open arms. It's pretty simple to see, go against Obama and you go against world government and you'll be punished and restricted.

[underdog]

Conservatives are being banned from travel.

I just want to make sure I understand your bad character; you're saying Phred Phelps is the same as a "conservative"?

[The Jays]

Nope, just looking at the news and commenting on it like many of America is thinking.

Conservatives are being banned from travel.

Meanwhile Obama poster children like Farrakhan (open Obama supporter) are still welcomed with open arms. It's pretty simple to see, go against Obama and you go against world government and you'll be punished and restricted.

No, wackos are being banned from entering the UK.

Are you saying that all conservatives are wackos?

Who cares about these two pieces of shit? Do you hold them in high fucking regard? One of them has a religion based on the tenet that "God Hates Fags", and the other spreads vile, hate-fill propaganda about homosexuals and foreigners.

These are not conservatives. They are vile creatures, politically insignificant except for the sheep-like followers that give them a voice.

[TheMojoPin]

I just want to make sure I understand your bad character; you're saying Phred Phelps is the same as a "conservative"?

Exactly. Phelps wasn't banned for not "supporting Obama." Phelps didn't support anyone. He thinks all the candidates are faggots.

[The Jays]

They are like a mutant strain of Calvinism, where they truly believe that everyone else is going to burn in hell, and their mission on Earth is to preach about how much God thinks everyone else is a awful sinner that is going to burn in hell, specifically for fag enabling.

I think most of us are guilty of that because we are socialist little faggots.

[Pestz4Evah]

Savage told The Chronicle that being included in such a crowd is no laughing matter -- and he is now preparing legal action against Smith, he said.

"This lunatic ... is linking me up with Nazi skinheads who are killing people in Russia, she's putting me in a league with Hamas murderers who kill Jews on busses," he said. "I have never advocated violence ... I've been on the air 15 years. My views may be inflammatory, but they're not violent in any way."

He said he has been defamed and endangered by the British government action. "She has painted a target on my back, linking me with people who are in prison for killing people," he said. "Does she not think people might hunt me down?"

Savage said he has had no contact with the British government or with Smith's office and has no idea how he ended up on the British Home secretary's list.

And he said he is working with attorneys and supporters who have called from around the world in an effort to find out.

"Is it the government's investigation? Who did this? If she didn't draw it up, who did?" he said.

But he said that even liberals should be disturbed at the move by the British government taken this week because they should wonder "who's next?"

"All I've done is expressing strong political opinions that happen to be quite patriotic to a large generation of Americans. They're not really out of the mainstream with most of America. Yeah, they're out of the mainstream with San Francisco and Los Angeles," he said.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=39618

[TheMojoPin]

"Does she not think people might hunt me down?"

People would have to give a shit about you to do that, Savage.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I can understand both, but I think in a "free society" its a bad idea. To foster free thought, one must tolerate the ugly thought as well. I would hope modern cultures are strong enough to survive a Fred Phelps or a Michael Savage.

I've debated with people who are against gay rights and argue that gays shouldn't be allowed in the military because they have the right not to be exposed to homosexuals. This banning of Phelps and Savage falls under that bizarre notion of civil rights, IMO. If Britain is truly a marketplace of ideas, let them fight it out and sanity will ultimately prevail

[Serpico1103]

Nope, just looking at the news and commenting on it like many of America is thinking.
Conservatives are being banned from travel.
Meanwhile Obama poster children like Farrakhan (open Obama supporter) are still welcomed with open arms. It's pretty simple to see, go against Obama and you go against world government and you'll be punished and restricted.

So, conservatives think the military is a bunch of fag lovers who will go to hell?

Thanks for realizing that conservatives don't support the troops.

[foodcourtdruide]

I think we just found a major problem that the conservatives have: they consider people like Phelps and Savage as representatives of their party.

Keep identifying with these polarizing lunatics and the democrats will be in power for the next 20 years.

[earthbrown]

People would have to give a shit about you to do that, Savage.

considering he has one of the 5 most listened to shows, I think some do care.


K

[LordJezo]

Savage is not the same as the other crazies on the list. He's just a conservative talk show host who does not like the direction this country is taking. How is he any different than Fez? The difference is Fez is pro Obama while Savage is anti almost everything being done in government.

This Phelps character is no one I support but Savage makes some great radio.

[Serpico1103]

Savage is not the same as the other crazies on the list. He's just a conservative talk show host who does not like the direction this country is taking. How is he any different than Fez? The difference is Fez is pro Obama while Savage is anti almost everything being done in government.

This Phelps character is no one I support but Savage makes some great radio.

Are the others on the list conservatives? If not, than your argument fails.
Have you researched why the UK has banned him?

[LordJezo]

Savage was banned because he said things against the Muslims and their book of koran, who as we all know are the main policy makers in the world controlling laws and slowing having the planet conform to Sharia law.

[TjM]

And yet that prick Bono can go wherever he pleases :furious:

[EliSnow]

Savage was banned because he said things against the Muslims and their book of koran, who as we all know are the main policy makers in the world controlling laws and slowing having the planet conform to Sharia law.

The most lame.

If this were true, please explain why the majority of the people banned are Islamic fundamentalists. Oh, and explain why the main thrust of such fundamentalists is that the US and the rest of the West are interfering with their countries and have a crusade against Muslims. If they were the main policy makers, none of these things would happen.

[foodcourtdruide]

Savage was banned because he said things against the Muslims and their book of koran, who as we all know are the main policy makers in the world controlling laws and slowing having the planet conform to Sharia law.

Lol. Best board character ever. So, how do you explain Islamic Extremists being on this list as well?

[LordJezo]

Lol. Best board character ever. So, how do you explain Islamic Extremists being on this list as well?

There is a difference between a dude on the radio talking his mind and actual murders and terrorists.

[epo]

And yet that prick Bono can go wherever he pleases :furious:

Lame.

[foodcourtdruide]

There is a difference between a dude on the radio talking his mind and actual murders and terrorists.

That's a pretty bold claim. Do you realize the implication you just made?

[EliSnow]

There is a difference between a dude on the radio talking his mind and actual murders and terrorists.

First, if you're right about muslims controlling the world, then why are these "murderers and terrorists" even engaging in such behavior. They're engaging in the behavior because they believe that the world is controlled by the West and the Jews who are out to exterminate muslims.

Second, some of the banned muslims are not accused of actually murdering people or commiting terrorist acts but advocating armed resistance etc.

[Serpico1103]

Savage was banned because he said things against the Muslims and their book of koran, who as we all know are the main policy makers in the world controlling laws and slowing? having the planet conform to Sharia law.

You went too far and have exposed yourself.

The pros (Rush, Hannity, Coulter) know how to be inflammatory without being ridiculous.
You are ridiculous. Tone it down chicken little.

[LordJezo]

You went too far and have exposed yourself.

The pros (Rush, Hannity, Coulter) know how to be inflammatory without being ridiculous.
You are ridiculous. Tone it down chicken little.

I have to tone it down, otherwise I could be next on the UK ban list. Savage was only the start, the first 16. I'm sure millions more will soon lose the privileged of traveling there.

[EliSnow]

I have to tone it down, otherwise I could be next on the UK ban list. Savage was only the start, the first 16.

This isn't the first time that Britain or any country for that matter have put people on an undesirable list and aren't permitted into the country. So your "first 16" is again ridiculous.

I'm sure millions more will soon lose the privileged of traveling there.

As sure as you were that as soon as Obama got into office, the army would start rounding conservatives up?

[hammersavage]

And yet no one raised a fuss when this savage got banned for a day. I have free speech right too people!

[EliSnow]

And yet no one raised a fuss when this savage got banned for a day. I have free speech right too people!

Not on a message board you don't.

[hammersavage]

Not on a message board you don't.

Don't be so literal or I'll retract that statement in your sig.

[EliSnow]

Don't be so literal or I'll retract that statement in your sig.

Good luck with that. :tongue:

[TheMojoPin]

considering he has one of the 5 most listened to shows, I think some do care.


K

There's a gigantic difference between having a radio show people tune into and thinking that you're important enough that people are now going to "hunt you down" because the UK doesn't want you. We're talking major self-delusion and paranoia with the latter.

[Serpico1103]

I have to be crazy, otherwise I could be ignored. Savage is only a hack, the worst. I'm sure millions more will soon lose their patience with him.

Better?

"the sky is falling, the sky is falling"

[epo]

"And I'll tell you something else, 'It's our borders, stupid'. If American is going to survive...we must defend our borders from those who come to exploit our nation or we're cooked. We're finished...In the spirit of nationalism...we must defend our borders against the dregs of society."

- Michael Savage, The Savage Nation, page 122

Oh the rich irony.

[topless_mike]

The least wanted:

Abdullah Qadri al-Ahdal, Yunis al-Astal, Samir al-Quntar, Stephen Donald Black, Wadgy Abd el-Hamied Mohamed Ghoneim, Erich Gliebe, Mike Guzovsky, Safwat Hijazi, Nasr Javed, Abdul Ali Musa (previously Clarence Reams), Fred Waldron Phelps Sr, Shirley Phelps-Roper, Artur Ryno, Amir Siddique, Pavel Skachevsky and Michael Alan Weiner (aka Michael Savage).


just pointing something out.

[topless_mike]

quick question.

so he cant go to england. big deal. is it really necessary to sue?
really, whats so big about england that its necessary to travel there?

[epo]

quick question.

so he cant go to england. big deal. is it really necessary to sue?
really, whats so big about england that its necessary to travel there?

Publicity stunts.

[topless_mike]

Publicity stunts.

attenion whores.
you are obviously not welcome there. so stay the fuck home.

[Pestz4Evah]

quick question.

so he cant go to england. big deal. is it really necessary to sue?
really, whats so big about england that its necessary to travel there?

He is claiming he will sue for defamation.

[earthbrown]

- Michael Savage, The Savage Nation, page 122

Oh the rich irony.

the quote is taken out of context.... he is referring to people who come here to LIVE, and take advantage of our social services....

Kinda like the many thousands of people who flood across the border to pop kids out.

OR the family who comes here, husband works and his wife and 5 kids are home on welfare....happens, sucks as I/we are paying for it.


K

[TheMojoPin]

How much are you paying for it?

[earthbrown]

How much are you paying for it?

I pay about 500-550 a week in federal and state taxes.

That does not include other state and federal taxes on services such as gasoline, and retail sales tax.


K

[TheMojoPin]

So you have no idea how much "you're paying" for the scenarios you listed.

You think that without those people your taxes would drop?

[EliSnow]

the quote is taken out of context.... he is referring to people who come here to LIVE, and take advantage of our social services....

Kinda like the many thousands of people who flood across the border to pop kids out.

OR the family who comes here, husband works and his wife and 5 kids are home on welfare....happens, sucks as I/we are paying for it.


K

Even it is taken out of context, his quote as you put it still advocates that a country should be able to keep out people they don't want int their country because he believes those people hurt the country.

So it's still sweet irony.

[epo]

the quote is taken out of context.... he is referring to people who come here to LIVE, and take advantage of our social services....

Kinda like the many thousands of people who flood across the border to pop kids out.

OR the family who comes here, husband works and his wife and 5 kids are home on welfare....happens, sucks as I/we are paying for it.

K

That quote is a reflection on his feelings of his belief on how this nation should control its borders. He wants this nation to control the border with more control on "undesirables". England is controlling its border by defining undesirable as Michael Alan Weiner. Hence the irony of his crying.

And seriously, shut up about illegal immigration. Its the dumbest argument ever.

[Furtherman]

I pay about 500-550 a week in federal and state taxes.

That does not include other state and federal taxes on services such as gasoline, and retail sales tax.


K

And if our borders were to close your taxes would go down?

[earthbrown]

So you have no idea how much "you're paying" for the scenarios you listed.

You think that without those people your taxes would drop?

if our borders were closed and we did not have this burden on our coffers??? You bet, except then they would just spend it on something else....

GOV't sucks, we need a revamp, this is not working, career politicians are able to vote for their own wages, they spend without thinking, and they add self serving shit to every bill coming down the pike. This is BOTH SIDES they all do it, it is not a republican or democratic problem, earmarks should be illegal, a bill should be specific to an issue, and then done.

K

[TheMojoPin]

if our borders were closed and we did not have this burden on our coffers??? You bet, except then they would just spend it on something else....

GOV't sucks, we need a revamp, this is not working, career politicians are able to vote for their own wages, they spend without thinking, and they add self serving shit to every bill coming down the pike. This is BOTH SIDES they all do it, it is not a republican or democratic problem, earmarks should be illegal, a bill should be specific to an issue, and then done.

K

I would suggest you do some research into how much of your taxes are inflated and spent on the types of programs and scenarios you're railing against.

You're be very, very surprised.

[earthbrown]

And seriously, shut up about illegal immigration. Its the dumbest argument ever.

you live in fucking Wisconsin, ask someone living in El Paso, or San Diego, if they think it is a problem.

There are NO developed countries that border a 3rd world country that do not protect the border, it is madness to not protect the border.

It is not the dumbest argument ever, it is reality, hospitals have been closed, and communities are overrun with illegal-alien welfare recipients all over the south-west. It is an issue.

Drugs flood across the border, and we allow it due to our non protection of the border.


K

[epo]

if our borders were closed and we did not have this burden on our coffers??? You bet, except then they would just spend it on something else....

Except for the studies that show that illegal immigrants are a net tax POSITIVE, which proves again that your ignorance rules the day.

[Furtherman]

I would suggest you do some research

Why waste time learning? Savage will learn him! And learn him good!

[Serpico1103]

the quote is taken out of context.... he is referring to people who come here to LIVE, and take advantage of our social services....
Kinda like the many thousands of people who flood across the border to pop kids out.
OR the family who comes here, husband works and his wife and 5 kids are home on welfare....happens, sucks as I/we are paying for it.
K

So, freedom is to do what Savage wants?
He wants to keep out illegal immigrants. UK wants to keep out people who incite hatred and violence.
That's why I glad I live here, blanketed by the freedom of speech; e.g. flag burning.

He is publicity driven. The government has shown its list and its justifications. His inflammatory speech has made him rich, so now he has to suffer. Boo hoo, I can't go to England.
Where will he sue? In US court? What is his opinion on other countries interfering with our internal decisions?

But, I do think illegal immigration should be curtailed. By cracking down on employers who use them to avoid paying taxes. Yes, those beloved Joe the Plumber small businesses are the cause of illegal immigration. If there were no jobs for the aliens there would not be the tidal wave of immigration.

[epo]

I would suggest you do some research into how much of your taxes are inflated and spent on the types of programs and scenarios you're railing against.

You're be very, very surprised.

I'll make it very easy for him. Dr. William Ford of Middle Tennessee State has written extensively on the topic of immigration economics. His "Immigrationonomics (http://frank.mtsu.edu/~berc/tnbiz/immigration/ford.pdf)" is a fascinating read.

Or he can just listen to Michael Savage & Lou Dobbs and just be wrong.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So, freedom is to do what Savage wants?
He wants to keep out illegal immigrants. UK wants to keep out people who incite hatred and violence.
That's why I glad I live here, blanketed by the freedom of speech; e.g. flag burning.

He is publicity driven. The government has shown its list and its justifications. His inflammatory speech has made him rich, so now he has to suffer. Boo hoo, I can't go to England.
Where will he sue? In US court? What is his opinion on other countries interfering with our internal decisions?

But, I do think illegal immigration should be curtailed. By cracking down on employers who use them to avoid paying taxes. Yes, those beloved Joe the Plumber small businesses are the cause of illegal immigration. If there were no jobs for the aliens there would not be the tidal wave of immigration.



Agreed, the business owners like landscapers, restaurant owners are getting away by not paying payroll taxes, workers comp etc. If an illegal alien hurts himself on the job, the boss can drop him off at the ER and just speed off.

The landlords who rent a 2 family house with 20 of them living in there need to be cracked down as well. In the NYC metro area if each illegal pays $500 for rent, the landlord pockets $10,000

[Serpico1103]

Agreed, the business owners like landscapers, restaurant owners are getting away by not paying payroll taxes, workers comp etc. If an illegal alien hurts himself on the job, the boss can drop him off at the ER and just speed off.

The landlords who rent a 2 family house with 20 of them living in there need to be cracked down as well. In the NYC metro area if each illegal pays $500 for rent, the landlord pockets $10,000

But, you will never hear any media, Fox or the Corporate LIBERAL media, attacking businesses and corporations as the problem.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The issue with illegal immigration is a multi tiered problem. Rich Republicans want them to increase their bottom line and profits, a lot of Democrats want them as a potential voter base if they become legal

I do think any attempt at immigration reform, amnesty or whatever you want to call it will probably go down in flames again this year. Given the economy is still in a recession and now swine flu plus a more populist attitude, there will be a backlash in my opinion

A lot of illegal aliens are self deporting, because the jobs arent there. The national unemployment rate is about 8.5%, but thats much higher with illegal aliens the days of rich suburbanites wanting to update their kitchens every 6 months are over, more and more people to save money will start mowing their own lawns this summer

[earthbrown]

Except for the studies that show that illegal immigrants are a net tax POSITIVE, which proves again that your ignorance rules the day.


not a net positive, children of illegals are considered CITIZENS, so all the healthcare and welfare provided to them is not factored into the cost of illegals.

Their ILLEGAL status, makes them a burden at all levels.

1. Social services

2. Criminal Justice System. Courts, prisions, publc defenders, police, etc.

3. Car insurance industry, premiums are significantly higher in places with high amounts of illegals.

4. Health Care services.

I will admit that I may be wrong, BUT i also say that these "studies" as all studies do, get the result they want. they can submit and disregard as much information as they want.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/04/15/number_of_children_born_to_illegal_immigrants_jump s/

4 million children born to illegals in 2008. If each birth cost $4000 which is minimal amount for natural child birth, this cost $16,000,000,000, how much of that do you honestly think is covered by insurance???

A illegal alien parent is immediately eligible to recieve social services for the illegal portion of the family, based on the new child US Citizenship.

In 1995 when INS estimated that there were 5 million illegals, 150,000 illegals claimed benifits on behalf if their anchor babies. This was at a time when the economy was good, and illegals were VASTLY employed. In 1995 the illegals that were here were vastly more productive than the illegal of today....but that also can be said about the rest of us too, native born americans are horrible now too...

K

[earthbrown]

I'll make it very easy for him. Dr. William Ford of Middle Tennessee State has written extensively on the topic of immigration economics. His "Immigrationonomics (http://frank.mtsu.edu/~berc/tnbiz/immigration/ford.pdf)" is a fascinating read.

Or he can just listen to Michael Savage & Lou Dobbs and just be wrong.

this article does not even address health care, welfare, and criminal justice related costs. Garbage.


K

[EliSnow]

I will admit that I may be wrong, BUT i also say that these "studies" as all studies do, get the result they want. they can submit and disregard as much information as they want.

The stats you cite are subject to the exact same dismissal.

Unless you review a study and can pinpoint the specific problems with a study, the blanket dismissal you make hurts you as much as it does the other side.

[TheMojoPin]

In 1995 the illegals that were here were vastly more productive than the illegal of today....

What?

[TheMojoPin]

this article does not even address health care, welfare, and criminal justice related costs. Garbage.


K

Hahahahahaaah! Yeah, that "article" is "garbage." Great dismissal of one study by one of the most respected figures in the immigration debate.

earthbrown, in all seriousness, this really is a "damned if you do, damnd if you don't" situation. If your biggest gripe is the perceived cost on the taxpayer, you have to realize that the funding and resources and manpower it would take to trake down, investigate, prosecute, expel, process, etc. all illegals here now AND seal off and occupy the borders (which would include the sea and northern borders, too) so far outweighs the current cost of illegals on the system right now.

[epo]

Hahahahahaaah! Yeah, that "article" is "garbage." Great dismissal of one study by one of the most respected figures in the immigration debate.

I love cheap fucking people getting into the economic debate of illegal immigration without really looking at the big picture. Let me give you a killer bit from Ford's article:

Our population is aging, and the entire generation of baby boomers, those born between 1946 and 1964, will begin to exit the labor force at a growing pace over the next few years. Also, our current domestic fertility rate is well below the demographically determined 2.1 percent replacement rate, suggesting that further aging and eventual shrinkage of our labor force is on the horizon. Also, our educational systems are clearly not producing sufficient numbers of skilled workers and professionals to meet the needs of our dynamically changing and growing economy. Shortages of semiskilled and unskilled workers in various critical occupational categories are also clearly present on the current U.S. economic scene. As noted above and documented in numerous studies, legal and illegal immigrants are currently filling many important gaps in our dynamic labor markets, as witnessed by their disproprotionate presence in various job categories across the entire skill spectrum.

Looking at that rational assessment of our economic environment, we are seriously fucked without immigration.

[Furtherman]

I will admit that I may be wrong, BUT i also say that these "studies" as all studies do, get the result they want. they can submit and disregard as much information as they want.

All studies do?

The what the hell was the Journal of Religion and Society thinking when they published:

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

Probably not the result they wanted.... but.... it was the truth.

When you have respected institutions and people publish studies (and not sponsored by anyone), you should listen to what they have to say, they're here to help.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

will there be a godhatestheuk.com site now?

[underdog]

will there be a godhatestheuk.com site now?

There already was : http://www.godhatesireland.com/

[earthbrown]

Hahahahahaaah! Yeah, that "article" is "garbage." Great dismissal of one study by one of the most respected figures in the immigration debate.

earthbrown, in all seriousness, this really is a "damned if you do, damnd if you don't" situation. If your biggest gripe is the perceived cost on the taxpayer, you have to realize that the funding and resources and manpower it would take to trake down, investigate, prosecute, expel, process, etc. all illegals here now AND seal off and occupy the borders (which would include the sea and northern borders, too) so far outweighs the current cost of illegals on the system right now.


you cant expel. most of the illegals here are rooted. You can seal the border and then deport the criminal aliens, and the welfare aliens.

We have at least 100,000 part time soldiers, via the reserves and the national guards. We use their 2weeks a year on the border as a force.

We also apply other troop resources to the border to stop the drug traffic and human traffic.


MY dttement that the study/artcle is garbage, is the fact that it only weighs the positives, it does not list the drain on society.

If someone can give me a study weighing the production of illegals vs. the drain(welfare, healthcare, and criminal justice costs), i may shut up, but there is no way that an illegals $20,000 a year landscaping job is paying for the vast social programs.


K

I would rather pay more taxes to protect the southern border, than pay for others to come here and leach.

K

[earthbrown]

by the way, we would not need a million mexicans to do landscaping, if we weren't all lazy assholes.

Where the fuck are the children??? I used to mow lawns in the neighborhood and I am only 28.. Oh wait we ruined that too due to regulation and lawsuits.


K

[EliSnow]

by the way, we would not need a million mexicans to do landscaping, if we weren't all lazy assholes.

Where the fuck are the children??? I used to mow lawns in the neighborhood and I am only 28.. Oh wait we ruined that too due to regulation and lawsuits.
K
Okay this is the most non-sensical things you have written so far.

Illegal immigrants are not just mexicans, and even the mexicans do far more than just landscaping.

Plus, how has regulation and lawsuits stopped kids from mowing lawns? Kids in my neighborhood mow lawns for people and for their own families.

[Serpico1103]

by the way, we would not need a million mexicans to do landscaping, if we weren't all lazy assholes.
Where the fuck are the children??? I used to mow lawns in the neighborhood and I am only 28.. Oh wait we ruined that too due to regulation and lawsuits.
K

Oh boy. What did we ruin by regulation and lawsuits?
Child labor?
You start to lose all credibility when you throw out right wing buzz words.
Guess who sues more than any one, corporations. But, the right wing would have you believe that it is the individual that burdens the legal system. Corporations are 160 times more likely to sue than an individual. It is not the little guy abusing the system, it is the big guy controlling the system.

[Drunky McBetidont]

Okay this is the most non-sensical things you have written so far.

Illegal immigrants are not just mexicans, and even the mexicans do far more than just landscaping.

Plus, how has regulation and lawsuits stopped kids from mowing lawns? Kids in my neighborhood mow lawns for people and for their own families.

when was the last time you lived in california? every dishwasher, landscaper, farm field worker you see in socal is either mexican or guademalan pretending to be mexican. it is not a racist statement, it is an observable phenomenon.

[EliSnow]

when was the last time you lived in california? every dishwasher, landscaper, farm field worker you see in socal is either mexican or guademalan pretending to be mexican. it is not a racist statement, it is an observable phenomenon.

Um, California does not represent the entire United States and the discussion is about illegal immigration in the entire country. California is a sizeable part of the country, and mexicans constitute a sizeable part of of illiegal immigrants, but there are illegal aliens from areas other than Mexico. Also, your point also validates my point that they are not just doing landscaping that kids in neighborhoods should be able to do.

[underdog]

when was the last time you lived in california? every dishwasher, landscaper, farm field worker you see in socal is either mexican or guademalan pretending to be mexican. it is not a racist statement, it is an observable phenomenon.

I saw a comic say that if you're brown skinned, you're called whatever is popular in your area. So every latin person in New York is a Puerto Rican, every one of them in southern cali is a mexican.

[TheMojoPin]

you cant expel. most of the illegals here are rooted. You can seal the border and then deport the criminal aliens, and the welfare aliens.

We have at least 100,000 part time soldiers, via the reserves and the national guards. We use their 2weeks a year on the border as a force.

We also apply other troop resources to the border to stop the drug traffic and human traffic.

Again, I don't think you're realizing the scope an cost of a plan like this. It's an infinite plan that would require security of ALL of our borders. You close off Mexico and those determined to get here will just scrounge the extra bucks to eventually make it up to Canada and get in that way or attempt to enter by the coasts. 100,000 soldiers is nowhere near enough to seal off the borders. The costs of such an undertaking completely dwarf the costs that illegals incur right now.

I would rather pay more taxes to protect the southern border, than pay for others to come here and leach.

K

So then why bring up taxes in the first place? Illegals essentially cost us next to nothing right now in terms of indivdual taxes. A fullscale and indefinite sealing of our borders would actually visibly and significantly rase indiviual taxes unless you want to drastically cut necessary spending and programs. What you're talking about is nothing short of a military occupation, and that costs massive amounts of money.

[epo]

So then why bring up taxes in the first place? Illegals essentially cost us next to nothing right now in terms of indivdual taxes. A fullscale and indefinite sealing of our borders would actually visibly and significantly rase indiviual taxes unless you want to drastically cut necessary spending and programs. What you're talking about is nothing short of a military occupation, and that costs massive amounts of money.

Earthbrown must like very high taxes.

Ford estimated in his article that the cost of only rounding up the approximate 12 million illegals would be at least $120 billion. That $10K per immigrant is a very low number, but it still makes the point.

[foodcourtdruide]

Again, I don't think you're realizing the scope an cost of a plan like this. It's an infinite plan that would require security of ALL of our borders. You close off Mexico and those determined to get here will just scrounge the extra bucks to eventually make it up to Canada and get in that way or attempt to enter by the coasts. 100,000 soldiers is nowhere near enough to seal off the borders. The costs of such an undertaking completely dwarf the costs that illegals incur right now.



So then why bring up taxes in the first place? Illegals essentially cost us next to nothing right now in terms of indivdual taxes. A fullscale and indefinite sealing of our borders would actually visibly and significantly rase indiviual taxes unless you want to drastically cut necessary spending and programs. What you're talking about is nothing short of a military occupation, and that costs massive amounts of money.

Many argue that the illegal immigrants currently in this country actually serve as a net plus to our economy (which has already been bought up in this thread), also I've seen studies that say illegals commit less crimes because they have a fear of being deported.

Also, they DO pay sales tax and the income they recieve would be so small that the loss of income tax from the millions of illegals is probably offset by their supply of cheap labor.

I've also read (and logic would tell you) that they "leech" less than poor citizens because of fear of deportation.

As Mojo pointed out, illegal immigration may have a minor effect on the average citizen, but these bizarre military states that some people want to create to eliminate illegal immigrants would have much more negative impact.

What is the reason behind it if not economic or crimerate?

[Furtherman]

Living in the United States is living better than... what.... 95% of the world?

In order to live in a functioning society, ya gotta pay taxes.

Even if our borders were sealed tomorrow, taxes would not go down.

So complaining and baseless putting blame on others is pointless and only exposes an uneducated person and what talking head they listen too without thinking for themselves.

Go live somewhere else on the planet for one week and you'll beg to have your taxes doubled if it means you can come back.

[Serpico1103]

by the way, we would not need a million mexicans to do landscaping, if we weren't all lazy assholes.
Where the fuck are the children??? I used to mow lawns in the neighborhood and I am only 28.. Oh wait we ruined that too due to regulation and lawsuits.
K

I need to know who lawsuits and regulation affected who mows your lawn.

[earthbrown]

Earthbrown must like very high taxes.

Ford estimated in his article that the cost of only rounding up the approximate 12 million illegals would be at least $120 billion. That $10K per immigrant is a very low number, but it still makes the point.

again you cant ROUND UP The illegals.

you can stop the free flow of drugs and people over the border.

Once the flow is stopped ALL criminal aliens should be deported upon release from prison or jail. All illegals picked up for minor crimes should be deported also.


I understand rounding up the illegals is not an option.


I also know they are not all mexicans, but I am making a general classification of the mass of people infiltrating from the south, I am aware that many of the recent illegals are from south america.


K

[TheMojoPin]

again you cant ROUND UP The illegals.

you can stop the free flow of drugs and people over the border.

Once the flow is stopped ALL criminal aliens should be deported upon release from prison or jail. All illegals picked up for minor crimes should be deported also.


I understand rounding up the illegals is not an option.


I also know they are not all mexicans, but I am making a general classification of the mass of people infiltrating from the south, I am aware that many of the recent illegals are from south america.


K

And again, why would you tolerate this kind of spending that would have a MUCH more detrimental effect on the economy and your taxes than the current situation?

[foodcourtdruide]

And again, why would you tolerate this kind of spending that would have a MUCH more detrimental effect on the economy and your taxes than the current situation?

People usually answer this question with something along the lines of "because they're breaking the law. What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand?"

I think its a ridiculous retort, but its just been my experience.

[TripleSkeet]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/FredSavage.jpg


Okay...maybe... but what have they got against the kid from the Wonder Years?

Wrong Savage dummy. They are obviously talking about this guy...
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6079/36755199.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=36755199.jpg)

Poor Randy. First hes banned from Legends of Wrestlemania and now this. Who knew banging Stephanie McMahon would be so costly?

[NewYorkDragons80]

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t110/99shadesofgrey/Exceptional%20Others/Savage%20Garden/SavageGarden1.jpg

They'd be doing us a favor to keep these guys out

[Furtherman]

you can stop the free flow of drugs and people over the border.

No, you can't.

[EliSnow]

I also know they are not all mexicans, but I am making a general classification of the mass of people infiltrating from the south, I am aware that many of the recent illegals are from south america.


Oh, so you're making general classifications. Well, that's okay then.

Seriously, it's not a valid thing to do when you're engaged in a debate. Make a general classification, and say that everything you're talking about is the same. It's a way of taking a complext problem and trying to simplify it to the point of absurdity. It doesn't work and it makes the user look ignorant.

[EliSnow]

No, you can't.

Exactly. The Soviet Union may have had some of the most stringent borders in modern history, and even they couldn't "stop" drugs, etc. from entering the country.

Maybe they had less of a flow than we do, maybe not. But even if they did ,is that the type of country we want?

[TjM]

In massachusetts if you're on welfare you can get a free car (plus insurance, inspection, reg, and repairs comped) To me it's the people who are legal and mooch off the system that are the real problem

[underdog]

In massachusetts if you're on welfare you can get a free car (plus insurance, inspection, reg, and repairs comped) To me it's the people who are legal and mooch off the system that are the real problem

Really?

I've had employees making $10 - $12 an hour and couldn't even get subsidized health care, even though its mandatory in this state.

My wife's parents was in NY and making $200 a week. The father was disabled and couldn't work and they couldn't get free health care.

I really don't think getting "welfare" is as easy as every one thinks it is. Maybe WIC is, but I'm ok with that.

[TjM]

Really?

I've had employees making $10 - $12 an hour and couldn't even get subsidized health care, even though its mandatory in this state.

My wife's parents was in NY and making $200 a week. The father was disabled and couldn't work and they couldn't get free health care.

I really don't think getting "welfare" is as easy as every one thinks it is. Maybe WIC is, but I'm ok with that.

I support welfare and I don't even think the abuse of it is that wide spread. I just think there is a small percentage that abuse the shit out of it. That's what pisses me off

I have people in my complex with the same apartments ad I do (2br, deck) paying less than 300 a month. I pay over 1100. Factor in food stamps and unemployed and now a fucking car. They live better than me and I'm the dumb fuck getting up at 4:30 every morning

Again I want to stress I think it's a small percentage that do that shite

[underdog]

I support welfare. I just think there is a small percentage that abuse the shit out of it. That's what pisses me off

I agree that there are people who abuse it. But EVERY program will have people that abuse it. It's just something you have to take into consideration.

[TjM]

I agree that there are people who abuse it. But EVERY program will have people that abuse it. It's just something you have to take into consideration.

Yeah I know it just pisses me off. I was venting. Stupid Bruins keeping me up all night only to choke!

[furie]

The UK caves like a pack of cowardly frenchmen (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104396)

[hanso]

So the guy was in a pic holding a bong.
Big deal let him swim.

[scottinnj]

We really only beat them once, and even that was largely due to them having to fight real wars elsewhere plus the assistance we got from the French.

If you're talking about the War of 1812, make no mistake, we got our asses fucking kicked up and down and left and right. The treaty we signed addressed none of the reasons we went to war in the first place, and the only significant battle we won was fought AFTER the war had actually ended.

You public school weenies have all your facts wrong. Back in my day, my private school
education broke it down quite nicely for me.

The Revolutionary War:

"We Kicked Some Ass!"

The War of 1812:

"We Kicked Some Ass Again!"

[scottinnj]

Except for the studies that show that illegal immigrants are a net tax POSITIVE, which proves again that your ignorance rules the day.

Then why is California broke? If what you said is true, they should be bailing out Obama, not the other way around.

[epo]

The UK caves like a pack of cowardly frenchmen (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104396)

Can we as a nation just stop the french=pussies/cowards punchline. It really shows a lack of understanding of history and is rather embarassing.

[lleeder]

How sad for them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/radrluv69/Phelps%20Pics%207/new6810.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x310/The_Ultimate_Wrestling_Gallery/Randy%20Savage/RandySavage040.jpg

[scottinnj]

Can we as a nation just stop the french=pussies/cowards punchline. It really shows a lack of understanding of history and is rather embarassing.

NO! It's funny every time.

Now shutup Frenchy!

[EliSnow]

Can we as a nation just stop the french=pussies/cowards punchline. It really shows a lack of understanding of history and is rather embarassing.

I once had a "discussion" with someone who was bitching about how France should support the US on everything because we saved their ass in WWII.

When I pointed out that our country wouldn't exist without France, he said, but that was a long time ago.

[A.J.]

I once had a "discussion" with someone who was bitching about how France should support the US on everything because we saved their ass in WWII.

And WWI.

[TheMojoPin]

And WWI.

Only because Europe was basically running out of, well, everything. In terms of fighting the French kicked some righteous ass in WWI.

[A.J.]

Only because Europe was basically running out of, well, everything. In terms of fighting the French kicked some righteous ass in WWI.

And then gave up. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Army_Mutinies_(1917))

[TheMojoPin]

And then gave up. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Army_Mutinies_(1917))

No food, no ammo. That's just common sense.

[furie]

Can we as a nation just stop the french=pussies/cowards punchline. It really shows a lack of understanding of history and is rather embarassing.

first off:

http://www.forties.net/HitlerVisitsParis.jpg

secondly, i'm well versed in history. If you want to go back to the frankish empire, sure, they were a powerhouse. The kingdom of france had it's victories and defeats. But from about 1936 till about 6:06 pm EST July 21, 2009............ worthless.

[Serpico1103]

first off:

http://www.forties.net/HitlerVisitsParis.jpg

secondly, i'm well versed in history. If you want to go back to the frankish empire, sure, they were a powerhouse. The kingdom of france had it's victories and defeats. But from about 1936 till about 6:06 pm EST July 21, 2009............ worthless.

You are right. They did need our help to continue to oppress the Vietnamese. I mean liberate them.

[TheMojoPin]

first off:

http://www.forties.net/HitlerVisitsParis.jpg

Not sure how that "proves" that the French are pussies given how the German war machine trumped them in about every way imaginable.

[Serpico1103]

Not sure how that "proves" that the French are pussies given how the German war machine trumped them in about every way imaginable.

I think by pussies he means they spent more on social programs than on a military. Pussies.

[furie]

Not sure how that "proves" that the French are pussies given how the German war machine trumped them in about every way imaginable.

i'm going on my original statement "caving" like the french.

[TheMojoPin]

i'm going on my original statement "caving" like the french.

They "caved" because they didn't have nearly the war industry that the Germans had and because they had essentially lost an entire generation due to WWI. It simply would have been an impossible fight, though it's not as if they just sat out the rest of the war. The French Resistance was righteously badass and French commandos/troops were involved in almost every major Allied initiative.

[furie]

They "caved" because they didn't have nearly the war industry that the Germans had and because they had essentially lost an entire generation due to WWI. It simply would have been an impossible fight, though it's not as if they just sat out the rest of the war. The French Resistance was righteously badass and French commandos/troops were involved in almost every major Allied initiative.

And Vichy France fielded more troops than the resistance had members
and they fought us in N Africa tooth and nail

[TheMojoPin]

And Vichy France fielded more troops than the resistance had members
and they fought us in N Africa tooth and nail

That's Faux France.

It's pretty unrealistic to expect there to be more resistance fighters from the clamped down regions under the thumb of the Nazis than with an army from the tolerated puppet regions. The resistance actually clashed wth the Vichy forces and they were never looked at as anything but cowards and traitors by the resistance and the government and military in exile.

[furie]

That's Faux France.

that may be, but they were half of france

[TheMojoPin]

that may be, but they were half of france

It was not "half of France." The majority of the French hated the Vichy regime and the collaborators, hence the constant clashes between the resistance and the Vichy security forces. The resistance and French military were the ones that defeated the Vichy forces in North Africa. It's a pretty huge stretch to try and paint the Vichy regime as indicative of France during WW2 or of their national character before or since.

[Dude!]

the afghans never gave up
in their fight against the
vastly bigger and better armed
soviet super power
they eventually drove them out

the 'men' of france just bent over
and said
'come on hitler, fuck my girly ass'

they do cook well though

[TheMojoPin]

the afghans never gave up
in their fight against the
vastly bigger and better armed
soviet super power
they eventually drove them out

Stop gasping for air.

Both people responded to their invaders with guerilla warfare. I'm not sure why you only count one example and not the other.

Oh yeah, Afghanistan hadn't just gone through WWI 20 years prior and lost almost an entire generation.

Durrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Dude!]

Stop gasping for air.

Both people responded to their invaders with guerilla warfare. I'm not sure why you only count one example and not the other.

Oh yeah, Afghanistan hadn't just gone through WWI 20 years prior and lost almost an entire generation.

Durrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

1980 was 35 years
after the end of WWII
your so-called lost generation
had been completely replaced
by then

you should read more

[Furtherman]

1980 was 35 years
after the end of WWII
your so-called lost generation
had been completely replaced
by then

you should read more

And you should just READ. He wasn't talking about Afghanistan.

[TheMojoPin]

1980 was 35 years
after the end of WWII
your so-called lost generation
had been completely replaced
by then

you should read more

...

Oh my.

This is hysterical.

[Furtherman]

...

Oh my.

This is hysterical.

What? You don't remember the French surrendering in 1980 to.... pastels?

[furie]

It was not "half of France." The majority of the French hated the Vichy regime and the collaborators, hence the constant clashes between the resistance and the Vichy security forces. The resistance and French military were the ones that defeated the Vichy forces in North Africa. It's a pretty huge stretch to try and paint the Vichy regime as indicative of France during WW2 or of their national character before or since.

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/aencmed/targets/maps/mhi/T041503A.gif

pretty fucking close to half dude

[Neckbeard]

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/aencmed/targets/maps/mhi/T041503A.gif

pretty fucking close to half dude

You do realize the population differences, yes? You also realize that not all the people in the Vichy "territory" supported the Nazis or the puppet regime, right? The land was partioned by the Nazis. The people living in those areas had little choice in the matter, hence the resistance.

[The-Mexi-Cant]

Hasn't anyone in the UK read the constitution?

Ummm.... lol

They hold themselves up as the home of free speech? Maybe they do, but I thought that was always our claim.

As I said, they have always been less willing to honor "free speech" than we do. Whether it's with regard to their defamations laws, their rules of government documents or other things, obscenity laws, etc. this type of action is not a suprrise.

Yeah I agree... not surprising at all. But really I think we should take a cue from them (yes as much as it pains me I said it) and just go ahead and admit that some free speech is ok and some is not. As awful as that sounds its the way we act anyways. I would prefer we just get it more out in the open so its not such an outrage when it happens. (and it does often)

[Pestz4Evah]

US shock jock Savage targeted 'to balance least wanted list' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1202169/US-shock-jock-Savage-targeted-balance-wanted-list.html)


Former Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has suffered a major setback in her legal battle with American 'shock jock' Michael Savage after her officials were accused of banning him from the country on racial grounds.

Emails written by Home Office officials privately acknowledged the ban on Mr Savage would provide 'balance' to a list dominated by Muslims - and linked the decision to Gordon Brown and Foreign Secretary David Miliband.

The officials admitted their action could look 'duplicitous' and cited his 'homophobia' as a reason the move would receive public support.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1202169/US-shock-jock-Savage-targeted-balance-wanted-list.html#ixzz0MLoT4bQa