So this Pelosi broad.....

[dino_electropolis]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Pressure-mounts-for-Pelosi-waterboarding-probe--44840002.html


so she lies about not having been debriefed about waterboarding techniques being used.

Of course she does.
Thats what they do.

Politicians seem to live their lives (or is it die their political deaths?), in very similar fashion.
Sharing similar themes at times, but always following the same story arc, the same formula

Act I - The "act" itself.
Act II- The lie covering up the act.
Act III- The uncovering of information exposing the lie.
Act IV- The acknowledgment by the actor (with absolving explanations)
Act V- The call for an investigation....

And, well, you know how the rest goes.


Try it yourself. Pick any political scandal and insert above.

So obsessed with lies, but for the wrong reasons. Arming themselves with shields of morality, one side wags a finger and calls for "truth". But not for truth's sake. Not to abide by an expected code of social conduct. Not to set an example for the children (the precious children!)
Nope. Just for political gain. Thats it. For power. For selfishness. For greed. For vices/sins/fault (whatever you wanna call 'em) just as bad/immoral/imperfect.
And we just sit and watch.
Like precious children.

[underdog]

I never get why people are surprised by political or religious leaders acting like dicks. You'd think everyone would be used to it by now.

[dino_electropolis]

I never get why people are surprised by political or religious leaders acting like dicks. You'd think everyone would be used to it by now.

You'd think we'd have gotten bored and changed the channel already.

[A.J.]

She just passed through town this past weekend. I'm sorry I missed her.

[beachbum]

rahm Emmanuel must have taken her into the back room and beaten her with a phone book.She's been pretty quiet lately.The best thing that could happen for the democratic party would be for her to lose her primary next year.

[somebody66]

My racist father said never trust anyone who's last name ends in a vowel......of course he's dead now.......serves him right. We told him not to go to Dr. Kevorkian.

so stupid.......http://bit.ly/zL8si

[epo]

rahm Emmanuel must have taken her into the back room and beaten her with a phone book.She's been pretty quiet lately.The best thing that could happen for the democratic party would be for her to lose her primary next year.

A primary? There is no way she'd face a real challenger in a party primary.

[FezsAssistant]

I hope she gets caught for trying to play both sides. Somehow, I think she'll get by unscathed. The media and the powers that be are all on her side.
This seems pretty similar to the secretly gay politicians persecuting gays, but blowing dudes in bathroom stalls when the work day ends.

[beachbum]

A primary? There is no way she'd face a real challenger in a party primary.

It wouldn't surprise me if the pit bull hasn't put the word on her.If the President and the party elite decide they want her out,all they have to do is put up a candidate and put the money behind him/her.

She would be well advised to shut her mouth and start being part of the solution instead of the problem.

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

It's not like these people are governing a 10th grade high school class. There running a COUNTRY for fucks sake.

I'm sure it's not as easy as you think.

[led37zep]

It's not like these people are governing a 10th grade high school class. There running a COUNTRY for fucks sake.

I'm sure it's not as easy as you think.


I ran the county of CHAD for a bit. Pretty fucking easy actually.

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

I ran the county of CHAD for a bit. Pretty fucking easy actually.
Cannibalistic Humanoid Above ground Dwellers?

[led37zep]

Cannibalistic Humanoid Above ground Dwellers?

Yes but we break it up into Haiku form.

[Recyclerz]

I ran the county of CHAD for a bit. Pretty fucking easy actually.

You worked for Gaddafi? Cool, could I have some cheap oil please?

Back on point, I have no problem with a commission looking at everybody who was even tangentially involved in the torture program. I think there are already enough facts out there that we can predict who the war criminals are going to be.

[A.J.]

rahm Emmanuel must have taken her into the back room and beaten her with a phone book.She's been pretty quiet lately.The best thing that could happen for the democratic party would be for her to lose her primary next year.

A primary? There is no way she'd face a real challenger in a party primary.

I SO hope Cynthia McKinney makes good on her promise to challenge her.

[badmonkey]

I SO hope Cynthia McKinney makes good on her promise to challenge her.

...to a steel cage match.
Loser leaves town.

[Thomas Merton]

She simply is not very bright but has a nice rack

Nice thread dino_e

[pennington]

It's really time for her to step aside. Of course, she'll hold onto power with a death grip. If the tide starts to turn against her, expect the "they're attacking me because I'm a woman and they feel threatened" line of defense.

[Ogre]

Regarding the whole torture/waterboarding/releasing of pics issue, I have to give President Obama (notice the respectful tone that the POTUS should be given, even if you think the sitting President is driving the whole country into the shitter) credit for choosing not to release the photos of said abuse and torture.

I am stashing this post here as to not draw attention to the fact that I am complimenting the President for a good decision. Something Liberals are incapable of. Like say recognizing President Bush for the LARGEST ever commitment by the US to Africa and the World to combat AIDS.

Well done Pesident Obama.

[Dave's Cackle]

She needs to step down. She's a weak leader.

[Dave's Cackle]

Something Liberals are incapable of.

Kinda sad that in eight years that giving money to fight AIDS in Africa is the only positive thing he's done as President. I'll congratulate Mr. Bush on his historic accomplishment.

[Foster]

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo320/foster67/nancypelosi.jpg

[The Jays]

Regarding the whole torture/waterboarding/releasing of pics issue, I have to give President Obama (notice the respectful tone that the POTUS should be given, even if you think the sitting President is driving the whole country into the shitter) credit for choosing not to release the photos of said abuse and torture.

I am stashing this post here as to not draw attention to the fact that I am complimenting the President for a good decision. Something Liberals are incapable of. Like say recognizing President Bush for the LARGEST ever commitment by the US to Africa and the World to combat AIDS.

Well done Pesident Obama.

YEAH MAN! Those evil fucking libs! They don't have the balls to commend the President, after ignoring memos on terrorists potentially flying planes into buildings, lying about the air quality levels from the World Trade Center site, and then lying to get his country into an expensive war they didn't need, when he does something good for a change those God damned Libs are like "pfft, money for AIDS in Africa, so what? It's just going to go to 'abstinence as prevention' programs which work awesomely in the US as a means of birth control. I mean, the teen pregnancy rate is at an all time low, ain't it?" Those stupid libs!

[TheMojoPin]

Actually, I brought up the AIDS thing on this very site as something good, so Ogre is again as incorrect as his fake sig quote.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Politics is for dweebs. Thumbs Down!

[Bestinshow]

YEAH MAN! Those evil fucking libs! They don't have the balls to commend the President, after ignoring memos on terrorists potentially flying planes into buildings, lying about the air quality levels from the World Trade Center site, and then lying to get his country into an expensive war they didn't need, when he does something good for a change those God damned Libs are like "pfft, money for AIDS in Africa, so what? It's just going to go to 'abstinence as prevention' programs which work awesomely in the US as a means of birth control. I mean, the teen pregnancy rate is at an all time low, ain't it?" Those stupid libs!

Its fucking funny how every political thread digresses back into Bush bashing. Everybody go and listen to your college professors and watch the evening news and crawl into your comfortable little bunkers at night and watch david Letterman and ignore whats really out there. Even Obama is starting to reaize the scum bags he's dealing with though he wont admit it. Right we should have stayed home and not atacked the poor bankers and Librarians and shoe makers we are fighting in Iraq. This nonsensical expensive war we don't need. Next we'll be hearing how we only attack dark people. Most people need to get their heads out of the sand. We got INTO this because the UN are a bunch of arab asslicking pantloads who issued resolutions that they had no intention of enforcing.Everyone forgets about the broken resolutions, the money being stolen in the oil for food programs from the countries that wouldnt sanction the war and the fact theWE ARE FIGHTING THE SAME FUCKING PEOPLE IN IRAQ AS IN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN AND LIBYA AND JORDAN AND THEY ARE THE SAME FUCKING PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BLOW US UP IN IRAN. WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM THEY ARE.THEY WANT TO ANNIHILATE US AND ISRAEL AND ANYONE WHO DOESNT KISS THEIR ASSGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS REALY GOING ON.

Or maybe we need to bring some vermont teddy bears to venezuela and Iran and things will be all better,

[epo]

Its fucking funny how every political thread digresses back into Bush bashing. Everybody go and listen to your college professors and watch the evening news and crawl into your comfortable little bunkers at night and watch david Letterman and ignore whats really out there. Even Obama is starting to reaize the scum bags he's dealing with though he wont admit it. Right we should have stayed home and not atacked the poor bankers and Librarians and shoe makers we are fighting in Iraq. This nonsensical expensive war we don't need. Next we'll be hearing how we only attack dark people. Most people need to get their heads out of the sand. We got out of this because th eUN are a bunch of arab asslicking pantloads who issued resolutions that they had no intention of enforcing.Everyone forgets about the broken resolutions, the money being stolen in the oil for food programs from the countries that wouldnt sanction the war and the fact theWE ARE FIGHTING THE SAME FUCKING PEOPEL IN IRAQ AS IN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN AND LIBYA AND JORDAN AN DTEHY ARE THE SAME FUCKING PEOPL ETHAT WANT TO BLOW US UP IN IRAN. WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM THEY ARE.THEY WANT TO ANNIHILATE US AND ISRAEL AND ANYONE WHO DOESNT KISS THEIR ASSGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS REALY GOING ON.

Or maybe we need to bring some vermont teddy bears to venezuela and Iran and things will be all better,

Thanks for the logic.

[Drunky McBetidont]

Its fucking funny how every political thread digresses back into Bush bashing.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/w/b/bush_finger_flip.jpg

[ANC]

"...is drainin' my ballbag......"
http://www.eventimagecenter.com/300x180/andrew_dice_clay300x180.jpg

[Crispy123]

WE ARE FIGHTING THE SAME FUCKING PEOPLE IN IRAQ AS IN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN AND LIBYA AND JORDAN AND THEY ARE THE SAME FUCKING PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BLOW US UP IN IRAN. WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM THEY ARE.THEY WANT TO ANNIHILATE US AND ISRAEL AND ANYONE WHO DOESNT KISS THEIR ASSGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS REALY GOING ON.

How bout pulling your head out of the sand. The oil for food program was being cheated by "American" companies too. The people we were fighting in Iraq were Saddam Bathists. Saddam ruled that country with an iron fist, he did not allow radical anyones much less muslims to do shit. It has been proven time and again that Cheney and Rumsfeld were blatantly lying when they said he met with AlQaida operatives.

You obviously have no idea about that part of the world because the Iranians are far different than arabs in Jordan or the muslims of Afghanistan and Pakhistan. Many extremists have flocked to Iraq as a rallying point as was forseen by many except the idiots at the top of the Bush administration.

[HBox]

shut Up Libs!!!!!!!

[Bestinshow]

How bout pulling your head out of the sand. The oil for food program was being cheated by "American" companies too. The people we were fighting in Iraq were Saddam Bathists. Saddam ruled that country with an iron fist, he did not allow radical anyones much less muslims to do shit. It has been proven time and again that Cheney and Rumsfeld were blatantly lying when they said he met with AlQaida operatives.

You obviously have no idea about that part of the world because the Iranians are far different than arabs in Jordan or the muslims of Afghanistan and Pakhistan. Many extremists have flocked to Iraq as a rallying point as was forseen by many except the idiots at the top of the Bush administration.

i DIDNT SAY WERE FIGHTING, i SAID WE ARE FIGHTING. OBVIOULSY NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. AND I DONT NEED A GEOGRAPHY LESSON FROM YOU. I AM FAMILIAR WITH SUNNI AND SHITE AND KURDS AND ALL THE MANY DIFFERENT SECTORS OF THE MIDDLE EAST. TYPICAL LIB, YOU THINK ONLY YOU GUYS KNOW WHATS GOING ON. BUT YOU CONVENIENTLY LEAVE OUT THE GROUPS AND SUICIDE BOMBERS WE ARE FIGHTING NOW AND WHERE THEY ARE TRAINED AND FINANCED FROM.IT MUST BE GREAT TO CHERRY PICK FACTS AND DISTORT REALTY TO BACK YOUR ARGUMENT. YOU KNOW DAMN WELL WE AREF IGHTING AL QUEDA AND TALIBAN AND SYMPATHIZERS. AND GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT, IT WASNT CHENEY AND RUMSFELD LYING, IT WAS THE OPERATIVES. THE SAME ONES PELOSI AND KERRY BELIEVED, I DONT SEE YOU CALLING THEM LIARS. AND BOTTOM LINE IS HUSSEIN DIDNT FOLLOW THE RESOLUTIONS.

BTW, I SAW WHERE ALOT OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WERE STEALING IN TH EOIL FOR FOOD. YOU SHOW ME YOUR PROOF WHERE WE WERE BECAUSE ITS THE FIRST IM HEARING IT.

BTW, AREN'T THE BATHISTS THE SAME PARTY THAT IS RUNNING JORDAN OUT OF IRAN? i MAY BE WRONG BUT I KNOW ITS SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

[Bestinshow]

shut Up Libs!!!!!!!



Finally, now you are making sense.:king::clap::thumbup::innocent::lol:

[Ogre]

Actually, I brought up the AIDS thing on this very site as something good, so Ogre is again as incorrect as his fake sig quote.

I tried to compliment Obama and I get diversionary tactics from my left.:wallbash:

BTW sig is fixed.

[Ogre]

How bout pulling your head out of the sand. The oil for food program was being cheated by "American" companies too. The people we were fighting in Iraq were Saddam Bathists. Saddam ruled that country with an iron fist, he did not allow radical anyones much less muslims to do shit. It has been proven time and again that Cheney and Rumsfeld were blatantly lying when they said he met with AlQaida operatives.

You obviously have no idea about that part of the world because the Iranians are far different than arabs in Jordan or the muslims of Afghanistan and Pakhistan. Many extremists have flocked to Iraq as a rallying point as was forseen by many except the idiots at the top of the Bush administration.

So all of that you stated gives Nancy Pelosi the grounds to tell a boldface bumbling lie to the country ? The Bush administration is no more. They can't do the "unspeakable" any more. You are now safely tucked in, never fear President Obama is here. Unfortunately Speaker Pelosi is accountable for her own actions or inactions as the case may be. She is culpable in this "torture" issue. She cannot, try as she may, seperate herself from that fact. I hope she twists in the wind.

She did not get caught with her hand in the cookie jar. She is in the jar with her head poking out and crying wolf. I hope that this will just be put to bed, rather than having some fancy pants, politically rigged "Truth Commission", only endanger our field operatives even more. All of this is just so some of the Democrats can say "gotcha". Pretty much petty partisanship, for what?

Time to grow up and get real about Al Queda and the threat they continue to pose for ALL OF US.

[Gvac]

Pelosi is about as phony as a politician gets and she's made my skin crawl for years now.

There is NO defending her, no matter how much of a dyed-in-the-wool liberal or Democrat you are.

This is what drives me crazy; you Dems and Repubs could see a videotape of one of your party members raping a woman and killing a child and you'd defend them.

Just stop it.

When someone's a scumbag, call them out on it, no matter if they're "on your team" or not.

It's such nonsense.

[epo]

Pelosi is about as phony as a politician gets and she's made my skin crawl for years now.

There is NO defending her, no matter how much of a dyed-in-the-wool liberal or Democrat you are.

This is what drives me crazy; you Dems and Repubs could see a videotape of one of your party members raping a woman and killing a child and you'd defend them.

Just stop it.

When someone's a scumbag, call them out on it, no matter if they're "on your team" or not.

It's such nonsense.

Which sounds great...but in the grand scheme of things, it is her JOB to be disliked.

[nukinfuts]

She just passed through town this past weekend. I'm sorry I missed her.

Did you see the flying monkeys preceeding her arrival is that how you knew she was passing through? I would vote for anyone that would just admit to being an ass...really...everyone has skeletons in their closet no one is perfect so just admit you are a lying ass and get on with it. Kind of like the Lego hair govenor in Illinois...sure he's an ass but he's not denying that he's an ass..he's flaunting it and in some respects you gotta give him props for that even though he's a dirty politician...is there any such thing as a clean politician?

I stopped watching the mainstream news...I just can't do it anymore. I would rather watch Entertainment Tonight or TMZ and rot my brain with celebrity crap at this point.

[SonOfSmeagol]

She simply is not very bright but has a nice rack


http://kevincolby.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/nancy-pelosi.jpg

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Doyle rules.

[underdog]

Time to grow up and get real about Al Queda and the threat they continue to pose for ALL OF US.

Look out behind you! Terrorists! Bomb Iran!

[underdog]

Pelosi is about as phony as a politician gets and she's made my skin crawl for years now.

There is NO defending her, no matter how much of a dyed-in-the-wool liberal or Democrat you are.

This is what drives me crazy; you Dems and Repubs could see a videotape of one of your party members raping a woman and killing a child and you'd defend them.

Just stop it.

When someone's a scumbag, call them out on it, no matter if they're "on your team" or not.

It's such nonsense.

I agree with you, sir. There's certain politicians that I never understand how people defend them. And people just cannot fall off party lines.

[SonOfSmeagol]

There is NO defending her, no matter how much of a dyed-in-the-wool liberal or Democrat you are.

This is what drives me crazy; you Dems and Repubs could see a videotape of one of your party members raping a woman and killing a child and you'd defend them.

Just stop it.

Looking for some kinda defense of her in this thread that would prompt this and just not seeing it.

[Gvac]

Looking for some kinda defense of her in this thread that would prompt this and just not seeing it.

Not speaking out against her (and others who do the exact same thing) yet pit bulling the opposition when they do the exact same thing is what I'm railing against. Staying silent or saying "what else did you expect?" is the same thing as defending her, in my opinion.

[CuntagiousChris]

They're all full of shit dems or repubs we've gotta do what we've always done be brutal in the shadows so the women and children can sleep peacefully that is the american way

[SonOfSmeagol]

Not speaking out against her (and others who do the exact same thing) yet pit bulling the opposition when they do the exact same thing is what I'm railing against. Staying silent or saying "what else did you expect?" is the same thing as defending her, in my opinion.
Yes, I do see your point. You subtle bastard. :)

[Crispy123]

YOU KNOW DAMN WELL WE AREF IGHTING AL QUEDA AND TALIBAN AND SYMPATHIZERS. AND GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT, IT WASNT CHENEY AND RUMSFELD LYING, IT WAS THE OPERATIVES. THE SAME ONES PELOSI AND KERRY BELIEVED, I DONT SEE YOU CALLING THEM LIARS. AND BOTTOM LINE IS HUSSEIN DIDNT FOLLOW THE RESOLUTIONS.

BTW, I SAW WHERE ALOT OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WERE STEALING IN TH EOIL FOR FOOD. YOU SHOW ME YOUR PROOF WHERE WE WERE BECAUSE ITS THE FIRST IM HEARING IT.

BTW, AREN'T THE BATHISTS THE SAME PARTY THAT IS RUNNING JORDAN OUT OF IRAN? i MAY BE WRONG BUT I KNOW ITS SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

If You need me to give you a class on Multinational Oil corporate structure let me know.

So all of that you stated gives Nancy Pelosi the grounds to tell a boldface bumbling lie to the country ? The Bush administration is no more. They can't do the "unspeakable" any more. You are now safely tucked in, never fear President Obama is here. Unfortunately Speaker Pelosi is accountable for her own actions or inactions as the case may be. She is culpable in this "torture" issue. She cannot, try as she may, seperate herself from that fact. I hope she twists in the wind.

She did not get caught with her hand in the cookie jar. She is in the jar with her head poking out and crying wolf. I hope that this will just be put to bed, rather than having some fancy pants, politically rigged "Truth Commission", only endanger our field operatives even more. All of this is just so some of the Democrats can say "gotcha". Pretty much petty partisanship, for what?

Time to grow up and get real about Al Queda and the threat they continue to pose for ALL OF US.

I agree that Nancy Pelosi should probably not be in Congress much less the Speaker of the house. We do not need to be the world police, other countries need to handle their criminal element. We helped create the UN and then shit all over it. Does that make sense?


Pelosi is about as phony as a politician gets and she's made my skin crawl for years now.

There is NO defending her, no matter how much of a dyed-in-the-wool liberal or Democrat you are.

This is what drives me crazy; you Dems and Repubs could see a videotape of one of your party members raping a woman and killing a child and you'd defend them.

Just stop it.

When someone's a scumbag, call them out on it, no matter if they're "on your team" or not.

It's such nonsense.

I call her out man. If she didnt know they were waterboarding then its worse than if she did. She needs to go and if she dont then the person above her needs to make her go. If its Obama then that makes him look powerful and dont fuck up, or it could piss off his allies.

[The Jays]

i DIDNT SAY WERE FIGHTING, i SAID WE ARE FIGHTING. OBVIOULSY NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. AND I DONT NEED A GEOGRAPHY LESSON FROM YOU. I AM FAMILIAR WITH SUNNI AND SHITE AND KURDS AND ALL THE MANY DIFFERENT SECTORS OF THE MIDDLE EAST. TYPICAL LIB, YOU THINK ONLY YOU GUYS KNOW WHATS GOING ON. BUT YOU CONVENIENTLY LEAVE OUT THE GROUPS AND SUICIDE BOMBERS WE ARE FIGHTING NOW AND WHERE THEY ARE TRAINED AND FINANCED FROM.IT MUST BE GREAT TO CHERRY PICK FACTS AND DISTORT REALTY TO BACK YOUR ARGUMENT. YOU KNOW DAMN WELL WE AREF IGHTING AL QUEDA AND TALIBAN AND SYMPATHIZERS. AND GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT, IT WASNT CHENEY AND RUMSFELD LYING, IT WAS THE OPERATIVES. THE SAME ONES PELOSI AND KERRY BELIEVED, I DONT SEE YOU CALLING THEM LIARS. AND BOTTOM LINE IS HUSSEIN DIDNT FOLLOW THE RESOLUTIONS.

BTW, I SAW WHERE ALOT OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WERE STEALING IN TH EOIL FOR FOOD. YOU SHOW ME YOUR PROOF WHERE WE WERE BECAUSE ITS THE FIRST IM HEARING IT.

BTW, AREN'T THE BATHISTS THE SAME PARTY THAT IS RUNNING JORDAN OUT OF IRAN? i MAY BE WRONG BUT I KNOW ITS SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Oh man! Those fucking libs! We should kill those socialist little faggots! Oh man, those libs take away all my freedoms!

You are so right, Bestinshow, Saddam didn't follow the resolutions! He should have been more honest about his inability to make WMDs, instead of leading us on and destroying his fucking country! It's all Saddam's fault, him and those evil fucking libs! Oh man, those fucking libs suck ass! I wish they'd all just die of a terrorist attack!

I agree with Ogre and Bestinshow. This country has 3 groups of enemies that we oughta capture, imprison, waterboard ( because torture would be wrong and we don't torture) and then kill:
1) Libs
2) Terrorists
3) More Libs

Then we can finally bring this country to real two party rule; Republicans (because we still need libs to fight with) and Conservatives.

Oh man, I hate libs more than I hate cancer! Libs cause cancer! The Bible even says so, in Libeticus 12:18 , "And God sent to Earth his only son, so that he may die for man's sins, and cure cancer that is created by those evil fucking libs."

[TheMojoPin]

I tried to compliment Obama and I get diversionary tactics from my left.:wallbash:

BTW sig is fixed.

Well played.

[Dave's Cackle]

Oh man! Those fucking libs! We should kill those socialist little faggots! Oh man, those libs take away all my freedoms!

I agree with Ogre and Bestinshow. This country has 3 groups of enemies that we ought capture, imprison, waterboard ( because torture would be wrong and we don't torture) and then kill:
1) Libs
2) Terrorists
3) More Libs

Then we can finally bring this country to real two party rule; Republicans (because we still need libs to fight with) and Conservatives.

Oh man, I hate libs more than I hate cancer! Libs cause cancer!

Don't forget Libertarians. To Libertarians, Republicans are liberals :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[The Jays]

Don't forget Libertarians. To Libertarians, Republicans are liberals :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

To Libertarians, everyone else looks like the maniacs and mongoloid retards. But to Republicans, everyone else looks like a fucking lib, even the Libertarians, well, because technically, they are libs.

[Dude!]

To Libertarians, everyone else looks like the maniacs and mongoloid retards. But to Republicans, everyone else looks like a fucking lib, even the Libertarians, well, because technically, they are libs.

how are people that believe
in virtually no government libs?

[The Jays]

Because if you shorten the word libertarian, you get lib, hence, libs.

Man, can you believe these fucking cons?

[Dude!]

Because if you shorten the word libertarian, you get lib, hence, libs.

that was dumb
i should post the
bat-boy picture again

[The Jays]

Yes, because that was genius.

[SonOfSmeagol]

She needs to go and if she dont then the person above her needs to make her go. If its Obama then that makes him look powerful and dont fuck up, or it could piss off his allies.

The "person above her" would be the Dem-controlled House of Representatives, which elected her as Speaker over two years ago. So, basically, all of her actions are clearly and directly reflective of the entire Dem portion of the house. My opinion she's good right where she is, for now, so the buyers can see what they bought and be clear as to the mistake(s) they have made. And if she knew about this, how many others knew and what did they know yet still claim outrage? Let's see all the facts, which we haven't seen so far in this selectively transparent administration.

[Bestinshow]

Oh man! Those fucking libs! We should kill those socialist little faggots! Oh man, those libs take away all my freedoms!

You are so right, Bestinshow, Saddam didn't follow the resolutions! He should have been more honest about his inability to make WMDs, instead of leading us on and destroying his fucking country! It's all Saddam's fault, him and those evil fucking libs! Oh man, those fucking libs suck ass! I wish they'd all just die of a terrorist attack!

I agree with Ogre and Bestinshow. This country has 3 groups of enemies that we oughta capture, imprison, waterboard ( because torture would be wrong and we don't torture) and then kill:
1) Libs
2) Terrorists
3) More Libs

Then we can finally bring this country to real two party rule; Republicans (because we still need libs to fight with) and Conservatives.

Oh man, I hate libs more than I hate cancer! Libs cause cancer! The Bible even says so, in Libeticus 12:18 , "And God sent to Earth his only son, so that he may die for man's sins, and cure cancer that is created by those evil fucking libs."


Did a vein snap in your head? I didn't say a fucking word about liberals. Last I checked my post concerned groups in the middle east. Maybe you need to see someone about your paranoia.

Funny thing is I dont see one dispute from you of my facts or do you agree?


And I hope you are giving lots of money to the un. Becuase of course they are valuable because .......why was that again?


correction:I did say typical lib but that was in the context that alot of liberals seem to think only they understand the political structure in the middle east, in my opinion anyway.

[The Jays]

You are right, my bad! Guess I got that lib virus, oops, I mean swine flu virus. Oh man, those fucking libs and their immigrant loving policies!

But you are right, I am acting like a typical lib. We need to focus on the real threat and that is eliminating all sand people from Earth so as to get this world back on the path to freedom.

[Bestinshow]

[QUOTE=Crispy123;2258497]If You need me to give you a class on Multinational Oil corporate structure let me know.

If you can show me that this proves that US oil companies were making side deals and payoffs with saddam hussein hidden under the umbrella of the oil for food program, actually I would be extremely interested,

[Bestinshow]

You are right, my bad! Guess I got that lib virus, oops, I mean swine flu virus. Oh man, those fucking libs and their immigrant loving policies!

But you are right, I am acting like a typical lib. We need to focus on the real threat and that is eliminating all sand people from Earth so as to get this world back on the path to freedom.



Yea you are right. Its hard for us extreme right religious zealot terrorists to look through our rascist hatred for dark people. I wish I could see things clearly, morally and intellectually like liberals can. you are right , we are such a hateful bunch.
I mean you are left, whatever you want me to say.

Keep posting the sarcastic rants about how hateful we are because it is really helping along this thread.

[KatPw]

[QUOTE=Crispy123;2258497]If You need me to give you a class on Multinational Oil corporate structure let me know.

If you can show me that this proves that US oil companies were making side deals and payoffs with saddam hussein hidden under the umbrella of the oil for food program, actually I would be extremely interested,

Why don't you google "US oil companies and saddam hussain food for oil" and do some reading. I didn't read through all these articles, but they seem like they are interesting:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065339.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1012-33.htm

http://www.heritage.org/research/internationalorganizations/bg1748.cfm

http://www.cfr.org/publication/7631/iraq.html

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/12/0080323

[Bestinshow]

[QUOTE=Bestinshow;2261701]

Why don't you google "US oil companies and saddam hussain food for oil" and do some reading. I didn't read through all these articles, but they seem like they are interesting:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065339.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1012-33.htm

http://www.heritage.org/research/internationalorganizations/bg1748.cfm

http://www.cfr.org/publication/7631/iraq.html

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/12/0080323

I'm at work now but I if I have time later I definitely will.


thank you very much for the links and using your time for me.

Its refreshing to find a post like this on this message board so thank you for that too.


I guess it wouldn't be surprising if some US companies find themselves involved in these scandles, were are certainly not immuned to greed and scandal. But my main point is many countries wouldn't sanction the war because they were making so much from the Sadaam regime.

[The Jays]

i DIDNT SAY WERE FIGHTING, i SAID WE ARE FIGHTING. OBVIOULSY NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. AND I DONT NEED A GEOGRAPHY LESSON FROM YOU. I AM FAMILIAR WITH SUNNI AND SHITE AND KURDS AND ALL THE MANY DIFFERENT SECTORS OF THE MIDDLE EAST. TYPICAL LIB, YOU THINK ONLY YOU GUYS KNOW WHATS GOING ON. BUT YOU CONVENIENTLY LEAVE OUT THE GROUPS AND SUICIDE BOMBERS WE ARE FIGHTING NOW AND WHERE THEY ARE TRAINED AND FINANCED FROM.IT MUST BE GREAT TO CHERRY PICK FACTS AND DISTORT REALTY TO BACK YOUR ARGUMENT. YOU KNOW DAMN WELL WE AREF IGHTING AL QUEDA AND TALIBAN AND SYMPATHIZERS. AND GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT, IT WASNT CHENEY AND RUMSFELD LYING, IT WAS THE OPERATIVES. THE SAME ONES PELOSI AND KERRY BELIEVED, I DONT SEE YOU CALLING THEM LIARS. AND BOTTOM LINE IS HUSSEIN DIDNT FOLLOW THE RESOLUTIONS.

BTW, I SAW WHERE ALOT OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WERE STEALING IN TH EOIL FOR FOOD. YOU SHOW ME YOUR PROOF WHERE WE WERE BECAUSE ITS THE FIRST IM HEARING IT.

BTW, AREN'T THE BATHISTS THE SAME PARTY THAT IS RUNNING JORDAN OUT OF IRAN? i MAY BE WRONG BUT I KNOW ITS SOMETHING LIKE THAT.


http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1012-33.htm

Ah, so Cheney wanted to remove sanctions from Iraq because they were interfering with his company's ability to make money. That's totally awesome.

[Bestinshow]

Ah, so Cheney wanted to remove sanctions from Iraq because they were interfering with his company's ability to make money. That's totally awesome.


I like how out of all those links you picked the one you liked. Btw have you researched if it has a slant or not(I'm not saying I have but Im sure you haven't).

Somehow I knew you wouldn't pick anything from heritage .org

Stop with the libs this and libs that bullshit. You are the one with the slant. Look in the mirror. It amazes me the amount of hatred and arogance so many liberals have yet look down at conservatives and Republicans. You have it all figured out. Well enjoy your Nancy Pelosi and barack Obama and Barny Frank and Im sure they will fix everything.

And take a tranquilizer for that rage.

[Bestinshow]

I like how out of all those links you picked the one you liked. Btw have you researched if it has a slant or not(I'm not saying I have but Im sure you haven't).

Somehow I knew you wouldn't pick anything from heritage .org

Stop with the libs this and libs that bullshit. You are the one with the slant. Look in the mirror. It amazes me the amount of hatred and arogance so many liberals have yet look down at conservatives and Republicans. You have it all figured out. Well enjoy your Nancy Pelosi and barack Obama and Barny Frank and Im sure they will fix everything.

And take a tranquilizer for that rage.


P.S. I did a quick skim of most of those articles without knowing the political slants of each and the best conclusion of what I can come up with is about 45% of the contracts were Rusiian and French contracts, about 2-3% were US companies which were turned over by the CIA and the US and Britain, if that article was accurate was ill equiped to supervise and were more worried about smuggling weapons and may have been the cause for missing the payoffs. Which still btw backs why Russia and France didnt want Hussein overthrown. But than again im a rascist hateful republican.

[Crispy123]

Why don't you google "US oil companies and saddam hussain food for oil" and do some reading. I didn't read through all these articles, but they seem like they are interesting:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065339.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1012-33.htm

http://www.heritage.org/research/internationalorganizations/bg1748.cfm

http://www.cfr.org/publication/7631/iraq.html

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/12/0080323

I was totally bluffing and could not have given a class on anything of the sort so thanks for the backup. :smile:

Stop with the libs this and libs that bullshit. You are the one with the slant. Look in the mirror. It amazes me the amount of hatred and arogance so many liberals have yet look down at conservatives and Republicans. You have it all figured out. Well enjoy your Nancy Pelosi and barack Obama and Barny Frank and Im sure they will fix everything.

P.S. I did a quick skim of most of those articles without knowing the political slants of each and the best conclusion of what I can come up with is about 45% of the contracts were Rusiian and French contracts, about 2-3% were US companies which were turned over by the CIA and the US and Britain, if that article was accurate was ill equiped to supervise and were more worried about smuggling weapons and may have been the cause for missing the payoffs. Which still btw backs why Russia and France didnt want Hussein overthrown. But than again im a rascist hateful republican.

Yes, IMO it is rascist to lump in the Persians, Arabs, and SE Asians into the same group of "them" that are out to get us. They are seperate geographically, racially, and ideologically.l

Your ignorance is amazing. You have been proven wrong, again and all you can do is resort to name calling. I don't think anyone here said anything negative about Republicans in general but specifically Bush and the Bush administration. And if you don't know why or where it is coming from then you never will get it.

You claim to be conservative, yet the Republicans in power expanded the federal government to unprecedented levels and the Executive branch to practically a dictatorship. We get that you don't like the Democrats, Rush, but what is it specifically you would like to see them do that they aren't doing or in the process of doing?

[The Jays]

I like how out of all those links you picked the one you liked. Btw have you researched if it has a slant or not(I'm not saying I have but Im sure you haven't).

Somehow I knew you wouldn't pick anything from heritage .org

Stop with the libs this and libs that bullshit. You are the one with the slant. Look in the mirror. It amazes me the amount of hatred and arogance so many liberals have yet look down at conservatives and Republicans. You have it all figured out. Well enjoy your Nancy Pelosi and barack Obama and Barny Frank and Im sure they will fix everything.

And take a tranquilizer for that rage.

Ah yes you have me all figured out.

I'll stop with my sarcastic responses for a moment. My only reason for the continued sarcasm was your incessant desires to pen everybody into a neat little group, liberal or conservative, so that you can apply the talk radio/Fox News template of arguing.

All of the articles regarding the Oil for Food program talk about stuff that is old news, the Oil for Food scam was news maybe back in 2002. And the involvement of the UN, of Russia, and of France was also known back then.

The only interesting thing in the links posted was that Cheney's firm was also involved in oil profiteering from Iraq, which is why I highlighted, and also to highlight the link which starts to answer your request for proof
Originally Posted by Bestinshow
YOU KNOW DAMN WELL WE AREF IGHTING AL QUEDA AND TALIBAN AND SYMPATHIZERS. AND GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT, IT WASNT CHENEY AND RUMSFELD LYING, IT WAS THE OPERATIVES. THE SAME ONES PELOSI AND KERRY BELIEVED, I DONT SEE YOU CALLING THEM LIARS. AND BOTTOM LINE IS HUSSEIN DIDNT FOLLOW THE RESOLUTIONS.

BTW, I SAW WHERE ALOT OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WERE STEALING IN TH EOIL FOR FOOD. YOU SHOW ME YOUR PROOF WHERE WE WERE BECAUSE ITS THE FIRST IM HEARING IT.
, not because I have this "lib" pursuasion to attack all things red-elephant related, but because I'm fairly disgusted with our government's involvement in lying about why we went to war in Iraq, the conflict of interests between the war and with our Vice President at the time, our torture and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners, the continued insistence that Iraq was someone involved with 9-11 or that by going to war and occupying Iraq we somehow have made ourselves safer from terrorism when we haven't, and, related to that, we have spent a lot of money on a war which was never needed, because the war was never declared a war and thus was never put on a wartime budget.

The Oil for Food scam is not justification for going to war with Iraq. It's maybe, at the most extreme, a justification to withdraw from the UN, it's perhaps a justification to offer admonishment to Russia and France for participating in it.

At the time we went to "war", I believed in it as a just cause, because my President had his administration inform me that Iraq was in cahoots with terrorists, that they were developing WMDs, that they had them already in weaponized form, and were ready to hand them over to al Queda to further see to our destruction. I even believed back then that we had justification based on the UN Resolution 1441, which referenced Resolution 678.

The congressional authorization directly echoes legal arguments made previously by the Clinton and Bush administrations. It cites Security Council Resolution 678 of November 1990, which authorized "member states . . . to use all necessary means to uphold and implement Resolution 660 (which ordered Iraq out of Kuwait) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and restore international peace and security in the area."
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1021-03.htm)
But as the "war" progressed, we failed to find WMDs in Iraq, which, honestly, was why we got into the mess. Our justification was that they couldn't let weapons inspectors confirm that Iraq did not have WMDs, thus, we had to disarm Iraq by force. Unfortunately, they had no WMDs to disarm, so all we could do was topple the regime and try to get Saddam, and we did that pretty easily. Then we got left with having to secure the country, because, surprise, No Government + US troops x Open Borders = Terrorist Influx.


Now, getting back to the point of this thread, did Nancy Pelosi lie about having been briefed? Who gives a shit? Honestly, I can't get a straight answer on it, but if she did or did not, doesn't this all just distract from the fact that we as a country torture prisoners? Her being briefed about waterboarding is on par with if she was being briefed on whether pizza was awesome. Whether she lies about being briefed or tells the truth, doesn't change the fact that pizza is awesome. If she lied, she's a cunt, if she told the truth, she's a cunt, these are politicians tying to skew reality to work in their favor, that's what politicians do. The truth is, we tortured people as was our policy during the Bush administration.

You want to know why this always goes back to Bush bashing in these threads? Because everything we talk about is related to how Bush fucked up some aspect of a specific problem, whether it be the Iraq War, the War in Afghanistan, the response to Hurricane Katrina, the housing bubble, the budget deficit. There's only three things good that Bush did that I can think of off-hand; opening the World War II Memorial, giving money to Africa to combat AIDS, and the executive order that the Federal Government can only seize private property for the good of the general public and not to advance the economic interest of private parties.

[Greg_V]

So this Pelosi broad.....

Is way too old for me.

[epo]

So I'm not as well-versed on this Pelosi situation as I should be, but in the grand scheme of things why would it be so impossible that the CIA would have mislead members of Congress in 2002 about their tactics?

Remember this is an agency that was using waterboarding at that time to "gin up" information about Saddam Hussein's Iraq? This is an agency that pulled the "yellow cake" information. This is an agency that let the Plame information out.

I realize that Nancy Pelosi is completely unlikeable, but its not like they were totally innocent at that period of time.

[The Jays]

Robert Novak let the Plame information out, courtesy of Scooter Libby and our then Vice President Dick Cheney.

[epo]

Robert Novak let the Plame information out, courtesy of Scooter Libby and our then Vice President Dick Cheney.

Exactly. Information from and about the CIA was highly politicized at that point in our nation's history.

As much as even I don't like Pelosi, I don't find it unthinkable that she was being fed bullshit.

[Bestinshow]

I was totally bluffing and could not have given a class on anything of the sort so thanks for the backup. :smile:



Yes, IMO it is rascist to lump in the Persians, Arabs, and SE Asians into the same group of "them" that are out to get us. They are seperate geographically, racially, and ideologically.l

Your ignorance is amazing. You have been proven wrong, again and all you can do is resort to name calling. I don't think anyone here said anything negative about Republicans in general but specifically Bush and the Bush administration. And if you don't know why or where it is coming from then you never will get it.

You claim to be conservative, yet the Republicans in power expanded the federal government to unprecedented levels and the Executive branch to practically a dictatorship. We get that you don't like the Democrats, Rush, but what is it specifically you would like to see them do that they aren't doing or in the process of doing?

Its ironic you accuse me of being a name caller unless calling someone a liberal or hateful is namecalling and I can tell by your tone that you r are hateful. As for you calling me ignorant, why don't you read a paper or a nonpropaganda article you moronic slob. You show me where I lumped indifferent ethniticities as the same. Or are you too stupid to know that Al Queda and the Taliban branch out between asia and teh middle east and much of the financing comes from diffrent islamic extremist groups in theses countries. I beg of you , admit to these things to show off your ignorance or take back your unfounded accusations. I would also hol dthat accusations of the oil companies in the us with a grain of salt because i havent seen those om the other sites or anywhere else but from you .

And not that you feel the need to prove your points , where have the Republicans expanded government. And if you try to hand me the deficit, most of that was incurred from two wars while the current deficit will be quadrupled shortly.

And no insults about the republicans on this board? The constant bullshit sarcasm about the poor libs, is directed at who? Answer that one einstein.

You back the most socialist government of all time and make those fucking stupid insults to me. I can dish them out too. And read a book and get out of fifth grade!

[TheMojoPin]

Exactly. Information from and about the CIA was highly politicized at that point in our nation's history.

As much as even I don't like Pelosi, I don't find it unthinkable that she was being fed bullshit.

I'm leading towards it being a CIA fuckup, which really isn't a stretch since we're talking about the Agency in 2002 and it was even more of a mess than usual then. You've got Republicans claiming the same thing as Pelosi.

[Crispy123]

Its ironic you accuse me of being a name caller unless calling someone a liberal or hateful is namecalling and I can tell by your tone that you r are hateful. As for you calling me ignorant, why don't you read a paper or a nonpropaganda article you moronic slob. You show me where I lumped indifferent ethniticities as the same. Or are you too stupid to know that Al Queda and the Taliban branch out between asia and teh middle east and much of the financing comes from diffrent islamic extremist groups in theses countries. I beg of you , admit to these things to show off your ignorance or take back your unfounded accusations. I would also hol dthat accusations of the oil companies in the us with a grain of salt because i havent seen those om the other sites or anywhere else but from you .

And not that you feel the need to prove your points , where have the Republicans expanded government. And if you try to hand me the deficit, most of that was incurred from two wars while the current deficit will be quadrupled shortly.

And no insults about the republicans on this board? The constant bullshit sarcasm about the poor libs, is directed at who? Answer that one einstein.

You back the most socialist government of all time and make those fucking stupid insults to me. I can dish them out too. And read a book and get out of fifth grade!


Yes you can dish out nonsensical bullshit. This moronic slob spent 10+ years in the United States Marine Corps and actually has been to Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Israel, and Afghanistan. If Im not reading newspapers its because Im studying an airplane manual, try reading sometime yourself buddy, theres five links above that explain US oil companies profitted from the Oil-for-food program, so you don't just have to go by me.

I don't hate you. I get that you watch Foxnews and listen to Limbaugh and just regurgitate everything they feed you. I pity you but defend your right to make ignorant claims.

Yes the guy who is cutting millions of dollars from the federal budget is such a damn socialist. Apparently not just socialist, but the most socialist of all time, Ill be sure to let Lenin know what a fucking pussy he was the next time I see him.

What seems to be consistently overlooked—not only by right-wing pundits but at congressional hearings and in the New York Times—is a distinction of enormous significance: the U.N. is being attacked for the policies and failures of particular member nations. The Oil for Food Programme was not some concoction of Kofi Annan's. It was created by a vote of the members of the Security Council. And every aspect of how the program ran—what goods were allowed, the monitoring procedures, the transfer of funds, everything—was explicitly established by the members of the Security Council. Kofi Annan did not have a vote; but the United States and Britain did, and they approved of every resolution and decision that determined how the Oil for Food Programme worked. Whatever critics may say, “the U.N. bureaucracy” did not design a program that handed over cash to Saddam Hussein. The fifteen members of the Security Council—of which the United States was by far the most influential—determined how income from oil proceeds would be handled, and what the funds could be used for. The U.N.'s personnel operating the Oil for Food Programme did not set these policies. They simply executed the program that was designed by the members of the Security Council.

[The Jays]

And not that you feel the need to prove your points , where have the Republicans expanded government. And if you try to hand me the deficit, most of that was incurred from two wars while the current deficit will be quadrupled shortly.



Prescription drug benefits, federal education policy, the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, expansion of federal wiretapping and surveillance, federal bailout of banks and automakers all occurred during the Bush Administration.

[TheMojoPin]

You show me where I lumped indifferent ethniticities as the same.

WE ARE FIGHTING THE SAME FUCKING PEOPEL IN IRAQ AS IN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN AND LIBYA AND JORDAN AN DTEHY ARE THE SAME FUCKING PEOPL ETHAT WANT TO BLOW US UP IN IRAN. WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM THEY ARE.THEY WANT TO ANNIHILATE US AND ISRAEL AND ANYONE WHO DOESNT KISS THEIR ASSGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS REALY GOING ON.

Most of those country/groups hate each other.

[The Jays]

I think he meant that al Queda and/or the Taliban are present in each of those countries, and thus, we are fighting the same enemy in each of those countries, not necessarily fighting citizens of those countries merely trying to protect their homeland. I'm sure he didn't mean that we are fighting all sand people as the enemy of the United States.

[Bestinshow]

Ah yes you have me all figured out.

I'll stop with my sarcastic responses for a moment. My only reason for the continued sarcasm was your incessant desires to pen everybody into a neat little group, liberal or conservative, so that you can apply the talk radio/Fox News template of arguing.

All of the articles regarding the Oil for Food program talk about stuff that is old news, the Oil for Food scam was news maybe back in 2002. And the involvement of the UN, of Russia, and of France was also known back then.

The only interesting thing in the links posted was that Cheney's firm was also involved in oil profiteering from Iraq, which is why I highlighted, and also to highlight the link which starts to answer your request for proof

, not because I have this "lib" pursuasion to attack all things red-elephant related, but because I'm fairly disgusted with our government's involvement in lying about why we went to war in Iraq, the conflict of interests between the war and with our Vice President at the time, our torture and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners, the continued insistence that Iraq was someone involved with 9-11 or that by going to war and occupying Iraq we somehow have made ourselves safer from terrorism when we haven't, and, related to that, we have spent a lot of money on a war which was never needed, because the war was never declared a war and thus was never put on a wartime budget.

The Oil for Food scam is not justification for going to war with Iraq. It's maybe, at the most extreme, a justification to withdraw from the UN, it's perhaps a justification to offer admonishment to Russia and France for participating in it.

At the time we went to "war", I believed in it as a just cause, because my President had his administration inform me that Iraq was in cahoots with terrorists, that they were developing WMDs, that they had them already in weaponized form, and were ready to hand them over to al Queda to further see to our destruction. I even believed back then that we had justification based on the UN Resolution 1441, which referenced Resolution 678.


(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1021-03.htm)
But as the "war" progressed, we failed to find WMDs in Iraq, which, honestly, was why we got into the mess. Our justification was that they couldn't let weapons inspectors confirm that Iraq did not have WMDs, thus, we had to disarm Iraq by force. Unfortunately, they had no WMDs to disarm, so all we could do was topple the regime and try to get Saddam, and we did that pretty easily. Then we got left with having to secure the country, because, surprise, No Government + US troops x Open Borders = Terrorist Influx.


Now, getting back to the point of this thread, did Nancy Pelosi lie about having been briefed? Who gives a shit? Honestly, I can't get a straight answer on it, but if she did or did not, doesn't this all just distract from the fact that we as a country torture prisoners? Her being briefed about waterboarding is on par with if she was being briefed on whether pizza was awesome. Whether she lies about being briefed or tells the truth, doesn't change the fact that pizza is awesome. If she lied, she's a cunt, if she told the truth, she's a cunt, these are politicians tying to skew reality to work in their favor, that's what politicians do. The truth is, we tortured people as was our policy during the Bush administration.

You want to know why this always goes back to Bush bashing in these threads? Because everything we talk about is related to how Bush fucked up some aspect of a specific problem, whether it be the Iraq War, the War in Afghanistan, the response to Hurricane Katrina, the housing bubble, the budget deficit. There's only three things good that Bush did that I can think of off-hand; opening the World War II Memorial, giving money to Africa to combat AIDS, and the executive order that the Federal Government can only seize private property for the good of the general public and not to advance the economic interest of private parties.


Oh Please, same rehashed bullshit all over again. A thread about Pelosi and Bush finds his way into your arguments. Talk about beating a dead horse. Nobody lied about why we went to war. Everyone thought they had WMD and nobody said Iraq attacked us. The intelligence sucked and the democrats bought it too. You yourself just said at first you thought so, the whole world did. (How surprising Pelosi denies knowing anything now also...How familiar)And the significance of France and Russsia in the food for oil was that was why they wouldnt back it. As for the water boarding, our marines do it as part of training. And btw, Cheney did not own or work for Haliburton during the war in Iraq. The bullshit compensation you hear of was his pension plan or should he of surrendered that.

And Im really tired of the bullshit of what the left defines as torture. Im quite sure there are no long term scars on these poor terrorists and I think it was a small price to pay to stop attacks planned in La and the Brooklyn Bridge. And last I checked we havent beheaded anyone and left any mass graves or suicide bombs so Im not as ashamed as you.

Funny how all people to the right are accused of labeling all people to th eleft as teh same when its what you guys do best and somehow that make sour opinions worthless. Or was that fox news comment meant to mean something different. lease educate me.

[TheMojoPin]

I think he meant that al Queda and/or the Taliban are present in each of those countries, and thus, we are fighting the same enemy in each of those countries, not necessarily fighting citizens of those countries merely trying to protect their homeland. I'm sure he didn't mean that we are fighting all sand people as the enemy of the United States.

Eh, even that is largely incorrect. You'll have people that will funnel money and weapons and such to groups like Al Queda because Al Queda is the terror group du jour able to strike the west. They'd flip out if Al Queda actually showed up in their country and started trying to take over or spread their ideologies. The Iran thing is especially and completely wrong in that regard.

[Bestinshow]

I think he meant that al Queda and/or the Taliban are present in each of those countries, and thus, we are fighting the same enemy in each of those countries, not necessarily fighting citizens of those countries merely trying to protect their homeland. I'm sure he didn't mean that we are fighting all sand people as the enemy of the United States.

thank you, thats exactly what i meant

[TheMojoPin]

And Im really tired of the bullshit of what the left defines as torture. Im quite sure there are no long term scars on these poor terrorists and I think it was a small price to pay to stop attacks planned in La and the Brooklyn Bridge.

You can only think that if you ignore everything, including the interrogators, that say that torture fails utterly and totally when it comes to gathering usable intelligence.

And last I checked we havent beheaded anyone and left any mass graves or suicide bombs so Im not as ashamed as you.

This is always an intellectually unsound argument. So it's OK to be evil so long as you're not as evil as the bad guys?

[The Jays]

Eh, even that is largely incorrect. You'll have people that will funnel money and weapons and such to groups like Al Queda because Al Queda is the terror group du jour able to strike the west. They'd flip out if Al Queda actually showed up in their country and started trying to take over or spread their ideologies. The Iran thing is especially and completely wrong in that regard.

Eh, touche.:surrender:

[Bestinshow]

Yes you can dish out nonsensical bullshit. This moronic slob spent 10+ years in the United States Marine Corps and actually has been to Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Israel, and Afghanistan. If Im not reading newspapers its because Im studying an airplane manual, try reading sometime yourself buddy, theres five links above that explain US oil companies profitted from the Oil-for-food program, so you don't just have to go by me.

I don't hate you. I get that you watch Foxnews and listen to Limbaugh and just regurgitate everything they feed you. I pity you but defend your right to make ignorant claims.

Yes the guy who is cutting millions of dollars from the federal budget is such a damn socialist. Apparently not just socialist, but the most socialist of all time, Ill be sure to let Lenin know what a fucking pussy he was the next time I see him.

If you don't hate me , stop being so fucking insulting. And being a Marine doesnt give you a monopoly on the problems in the world. Those are your opinions, and Ihave spoken to many military people that have done as much as you that beg to differ. And the putz that is cutting millions from the budget is adding trillions so wtf? And I said most socialist President of all time. last I checked, lenin was russian.

And btw, only one of those links accuse american oil companies of that. 2% of the vouchers. I guess you didnt read that either. I still havent seen your retorts proving my statements as nonsensical bullshit. especially the big government one you claimed.

Maybe you should put down your airplane manual and read a newspaper because obviously you are missing something.

[Crispy123]

You back the most socialist government of all time and make those fucking stupid insults to me. I can dish them out too. And read a book and get out of fifth grade!


And I said most socialist President of all time. last I checked, lenin was russian.


I cant read. Sure, I get you man. This is obviously the time to stick your head in the sand right?

[Dude!]

man, we have really dumbed-down
the definition of torture

the nazi's had all kinds
of humane devices
like testicle-crushers

read up on what the vietcong did
and the japs to the americans and chinese

waterboarding is child's play
and is in no way torture
in a historical context

[Bestinshow]

You can only think that if you ignore everything, including the interrogators, that say that torture fails utterly and totally when it comes to gathering usable intelligence.





This is always an intellectually unsound argument. So it's OK to be evil so long as you're not as evil as the bad guys?

Actually I have heard we have received much usable intelligence. And why wont Obama declassify those records?

I was being facitious. I hardly consider what we have done compared to what we have received as evil. My point was that was what I consider torture. Hardly compares to our methods.


Sometimes I get the feeling you try to pick apart my words. Do you really think im as stupid as the two replies youve given me on this page? I certainly treat you with more respect than that.

[badmonkey]

Robert Novak let the Plame information out, courtesy of Scooter Libby and our then Vice President Dick Cheney.

Armitage leak admission creates new questions (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14723718/)

Another example of how repeating something over and over again does not make it the truth.

[Bestinshow]

I cant read. Sure, I get you man. This is obviously the time to stick your head in the sand right?



Okay, Ill give you that one as unclear.Actually I used the wrong word because admittedly i was pissed off. I meant as far as our administrations. I can see definitely see that sounded wrong, but it wasn't what I meant.

And you have to be kidding if you don't see Obama as Socialist.

[TheMojoPin]

Actually I have heard we have received much usable intelligence. And why wont Obama declassify those records?

We have received quite a bit of usable intelligence...but not from torture.

I was being facitious. I hardly consider what we have done compared to what we have received as evil. My point was that was what I consider torture. Hardly compares to our methods.

The comparison is moot. If we want to truly be "the good guys," we can't simply live by, "oh, we're not as bad as them."

Sometimes I get the feeling you try to pick apart my words. Do you really think im as stupid as the two replies youve given me on this page? I certainly treat you with more respect than that.

I didn't call you stupid. I picked the actual points from your diatribe. The rest, honestly, is just ranting. I'm not attacking you in any way by simply responding to your actual talking points.

[TheMojoPin]

man, we have really dumbed-down
the definition of torture

the nazi's had all kinds
of humane devices
like testicle-crushers

read up on what the vietcong did
and the japs to the americans and chinese

waterboarding is child's play
and is in no way torture
in a historical context

The US prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American soldiers.

[Bestinshow]

We have received quite a bit of usable intelligence...but not from torture.



The comparison is moot. If we want to truly be "the good guys," we can't simply live by, "oh, we're not as bad as them."



I didn't call you stupid. I picked the actual points from your diatribe. The rest, honestly, is just ranting. I'm not attacking you in any way by simply responding to your actual talking points.

Well I heard we received alot from the waterboarding. I don't know your sorces but I heard that was how we stoppped two attacks. I forget his name but we waterboarded one guy three times and he finally broke.


And if we waterboard our own men as part of training, how can you call that torture?

I really dont think we need to put up terorists in the Hilton.

[EliSnow]

I really dont think we need to put up terorists in the Hilton.

So if we can't waterboard, the only alternative is to put the terrorist in a Hilton? I would have thought there were plenty of methods between torture and pampering that would be useful.

[Bestinshow]

The US prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American soldiers.

the geneve conference and international laws dont apply to terrorists. These weren't Iraqi POW's . Thats quite a difference, don't you think?

[underdog]

So if we can't waterboard, the only alternative is to put the terrorist in a Hilton? I would have thought there were plenty of methods between torture and pampering that would be useful.

THERE IS NO GRAY AREA.

People need to understand this. You're either with us or against us. Mission accomplished!

[Bestinshow]

So if we can't waterboard, the only alternative is to put the terrorist in a Hilton? I would have thought there were plenty of methods between torture and pampering that would be useful.


I would say if I Had to decide between waterboarding terrorists and having the Cables of the Brooklyn Bridge cut, I can sleep at night with the water boarding.

And btw, Obviously i wasnt there but from what I heard, they tried the regular methods first.

[The Jays]

Oh Please, same rehashed bullshit all over again. A thread about Pelosi and Bush finds his way into your arguments. Talk about beating a dead horse. Nobody lied about why we went to war. Everyone thought they had WMD and nobody said Iraq attacked us. The intelligence sucked and the democrats bought it too. You yourself just said at first you thought so, the whole world did. (How surprising Pelosi denies knowing anything now also...How familiar)And the significance of France and Russsia in the food for oil was that was why they wouldnt back it. As for the water boarding, our marines do it as part of training. And btw, Cheney did not own or work for Haliburton during the war in Iraq. The bullshit compensation you hear of was his pension plan or should he of surrendered that.

And Im really tired of the bullshit of what the left defines as torture. Im quite sure there are no long term scars on these poor terrorists and I think it was a small price to pay to stop attacks planned in La and the Brooklyn Bridge. And last I checked we havent beheaded anyone and left any mass graves or suicide bombs so Im not as ashamed as you.

Funny how all people to the right are accused of labeling all people to th eleft as teh same when its what you guys do best and somehow that make sour opinions worthless. Or was that fox news comment meant to mean something different. lease educate me.

Bush exploited the perception at the time that 7 in 10 people believed that Saddam had some involvement with 9/11 by making sure to have his speechs crafted with Iraq and 9/11 juxtaposed against one another, and Cheney did not help when he tried to assert a direct link between the terrorist masterminds and Iraq.

Bush's opponents say he encouraged this misconception by linking al Qaeda to Hussein in almost every speech on Iraq. Indeed, administration officials began to hint about a Sept. 11-Hussein link soon after the attacks. In late 2001, Vice President Cheney said it was "pretty well confirmed" that attack mastermind Mohamed Atta met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official.

Speaking on NBC's "Meet the Press," Cheney was referring to a meeting that Czech officials said took place in Prague in April 2000. That allegation was the most direct connection between Iraq and the Sept. 11 attacks. But this summer's congressional report on the attacks states, "The CIA has been unable to establish that [Atta] left the United States or entered Europe in April under his true name or any known alias."

Bush, in his speeches, did not say directly that Hussein was culpable in the Sept. 11 attacks. But he frequently juxtaposed Iraq and al Qaeda in ways that hinted at a link. In a March speech about Iraq's "weapons of terror," Bush said: "If the world fails to confront the threat posed by the Iraqi regime, refusing to use force, even as a last resort, free nations would assume immense and unacceptable risks. The attacks of September the 11th, 2001, showed what the enemies of America did with four airplanes. We will not wait to see what terrorists or terrorist states could do with weapons of mass destruction."
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32862-2003Sep5?language=printer)

When we go to war thinking that we are going to find WMDs, and then have the administration tell us it was about getting freedom to Iraqis, that may not be lying, but that's a hell of a misdirection/mislead.

But I digress. This thread is about Pelosi, and whether she lied or not doesn't really matter, because the issue is really about waterboarding. If waterboarding is not a big deal, then who gives a shit about whether she lied about being told about it? If waterboarding is a big deal, then who gives a shit about whether she lied about it? It all seems to be pegged to the argument regarding whether waterboarding is torture or not.

Now, you say it's not torture because some of our troop are waterboarded as part of their training. Waterboarding, for those at home who have not seen the movie GI Jane, is a method of aggressive interrogation that our own troops are sometimes subjected to when they go through with SERE training. They don't volunteer to be waterboarded like someone might volunteer to take part in a magic trick, they are waterboarded during an exercise replicating conditions across enemy lines that a soldier may face, which is meant to test their abilities to survive, evade, resist, and escape.

They go through with SERE training in order to resist giving up information when across enemy lines. Our enemies have surely been trained similarly, one reason why waterboarding is not effective.

Now, waterboarding is not to simulate drowning. Waterboarding is drowning. You inhale water when you can no longer hold your breath. Inhaling water is drowning. Drowning is potentially deadly. To subject a person to a potentially deadly situation while attempting to keep the person alive so as to obtain information from the person is torture, as I would see it. Now, the UN would see it that torture as "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions." (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm)

But the UN doesn't count because they participated in the Oil for Food Programme, right? Why should we follow their resolutions?

Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.
Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.
Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited. (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention)

Pshaw, they aren't prisoners of war. They are enemy combatants! Slip right by that pesky Geneva Convention.

See this Christopher Hitchens article for more information about waterboarding as torture. He is a conservative writer, supportive for the Iraq War, who allowed himself to be waterboarded. (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808)

[TheMojoPin]

the geneve conference and international laws dont apply to terrorists. These weren't Iraqi POW's . Thats quite a difference, don't you think?

Nope. We shouldn't be torturing anyone, period. Standard interrogation and investigation techniques are far more effective at protecting us. Moral debates aside, I don't want us torturing because it puts us at greater risk if time is of the essence since the most common result is the person being tortured telling his captors what he thinks they want to here even though he doesn't actually know the information they're demanding of him. It produces a false positive that gives faulty leads which will send investigators in the wrong direction.

[EliSnow]

I would say if I Had to decide between waterboarding terrorists and having the Cables of the Brooklyn Bridge cut, I can sleep at night with the water boarding.

And btw, Obviously i wasnt there but from what I heard, they tried the regular methods first.

But even doing nothing and keeping them imprisoned isn't pampering and putting them in a Hilton and pampering. Your original response is such an annoying argument and used often in justifying cruel action whether it's how we treat terrorists, criminals etc. If we don't execute, torture, etc. such people, we're kissing their ass and treating them like kings.

[TheMojoPin]

And if we waterboard our own men as part of training, how can you call that torture?

If a drill sergeant beats the shit out out of one of his men I still call it beating the shit out of someone no matter who it's done to.

[TheMojoPin]

Ironically, the calls for a torture is really a slam on the abilities of our interrogators, soldiers, intelligence offciers, law enforcement, etc.. It's basically saying, "you guys are too shitty at your job of getting information that we want you to torture people instead."

[Bestinshow]

But even doing nothing and keeping them imprisoned isn't pampering and putting them in a Hilton and pampering. Your original response is such an annoying argument and used often in justifying cruel action whether it's how we treat terrorists, criminals etc. If we don't execute, torture, etc. such people, we're kissing their ass and treating them like kings.

Funny, I find it just as annoying that you think we should treat terrorists with kit gloves.


Why does the left feel they have the only definition of torture.

[EliSnow]

Funny, I find it just as annoying that you think we should treat terrorists with kit gloves.

I'm assuming you're repeating that flawed logic as a joke. Because it's clear that there is a lot of middle ground between torture and treating terrorist with kid gloves.


Why does the left feel they have the only definition of torture.

Why do you assume that if people disagree with you, they are the "left?"

[TheMojoPin]

Funny, I find it just as annoying that you think we should treat terrorists with kit gloves.


Why does the left feel they have the only definition of torture.

Who is talking about "kid gloves?" Constant and invasive interrogation and being in jail isn't "kid gloves." You keep talking like not torturing someone means the only option is to do nothing or let these guys off.

The definition of the US' tactics as torture is not a "Left" thing. It's an internationally agrred upon thing.

[The Jays]

Funny, I find it just as annoying that you think we should treat terrorists with kit gloves.


Why does the left feel they have the only definition of torture.

Why do you feel that the only people who oppose the use of waterboarding come from the left? Why do you need to put people in a box in order to oppose their views? Is that what arguing a point of view is, from what you've heard?

[Gvac]

Every thread that exists (from ones about Anthony Cumia to those about Obama and even this Pelosi one) which mentions torture immediately turns into a debate on that topic and not the one at hand.

This one is about how Pelosi is an awful, vile human being and should be tried as a witch.

Please get back on topic!

Thanks!

[The Jays]

No, this thread is about this Pelosi broad, who we have all generally agreed is a politician, thus, she is scum. Now that we have tackled that tough issue, we'd like to discuss torture, which is at the heart of this latest problem, and goes a long way to determining whether she is mere scum, or the more nefarious, scum of the Earth.

[Crispy123]

Every thread that exists (from ones about Anthony Cumia to those about Obama and even this Pelosi one) which mentions torture immediately turns into a debate on that topic and not the one at hand.

This one is about how Pelosi is an awful, vile human being and should be tried as a witch.

Please get back on topic!

Thanks!

You would like that wouldn't you, maybe you'd like to line up all the Jews while your at it?

[Bestinshow]

Well from my experience, I could be wrong, but the only people I find that didnt find those methods justified for the information we obtained(And we did obtain information of several cells where evidence was found, not false positive) are people on the left that generally would find fault with a republican if they saved a kid from getting run over by a car by saying they blocked traffic. This is my opinion and im stupid enough to debate enough people on the left to form this opinion. If im wrong about this, I apologize but Im going go on a limb and say You giys are at least left of center.

[EliSnow]

Well from my experience, I could be wrong, but the only people I find that didnt find those methods justified for the information we obtained(And we did obtain information of several cells where evidence was found, not false positive) are people on the left that generally would find fault with a republican if they saved a kid from getting run over by a car by saying they blocked traffic. This is my opinion and im stupid enough to debate enough people on the left to form this opinion. If im wrong about this, I apologize but Im going go on a limb and say You giys are at least left of center.

You didn't click on the link that the Jays had above re: the conservative writer and waterboarding did you?

[epo]

Well from my experience, I could be wrong, but the only people I find that didnt find those methods justified for the information we obtained(And we did obtain information of several cells where evidence was found, not false positive) are people on the left that generally would find fault with a republican if they saved a kid from getting run over by a car by saying they blocked traffic. This is my opinion and im stupid enough to debate enough people on the left to form this opinion. If im wrong about this, I apologize but Im going go on a limb and say You giys are at least left of center.

Don't worry, Gvac is left of gay america. He's a regular flamer.

[Bestinshow]

You would like that wouldn't you, maybe you'd like to line up all the Jews while your at it?

see, I knew you guys would eventually come after me.

[EliSnow]

see, I knew you guys would eventually come after me.

You need to take more time in reading posts. He was responding to Gvac's post and was joking.

[The Jays]

You didn't click on the link that the Jays had above re: the conservative writer and waterboarding did you?

Yeah, seriously, Hitchens is like, obnoxiously conservative, and he thinks it's torture.

[Bestinshow]

You need to take more time in reading posts. He was responding to Gvac's post and was joking.

Obviously so was I . How would he even know I was Jewish? Or does my nose give me away?

[Gvac]

Obviously so was I . How would he even know I was Jewish? Or does my nose give me away?

You're Jewish?

Gross!

[TheMojoPin]

Well from my experience, I could be wrong, but the only people I find that didnt find those methods justified for the information we obtained(And we did obtain information of several cells where evidence was found, not false positive) are people on the left that generally would find fault with a republican if they saved a kid from getting run over by a car by saying they blocked traffic. This is my opinion and im stupid enough to debate enough people on the left to form this opinion. If im wrong about this, I apologize but Im going go on a limb and say You giys are at least left of center.

I don't think any of us are shy about our political leanings.

Please take a look at the testimonies against torture on this page and who they came from. (http://www.amnestyusa.org/war-on-terror/reports-statements-and-issue-briefs/military-intelligence-and-law-enforcement-officers-opposing-torture/page.do?id=1031036)

Numerous more testimonies from government and military officials against torture. (http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2009/04/top-interrogation-experts-say-torture.html)

[Bestinshow]

You know now i'm really pissed. This thread has degenerated into joking. Im used to political threads turning into everyone spitting acid and hating each other. Thats it, Im going home.

(Btw since noone seems to get me, or maybe Im just not funny, that was also a joke, bad one at that)

[The Jays]

Obviously so was I . How would he even know I was Jewish? Or does my nose give me away?

I never encountered someone who is so Jewish that their nose is so big that it bleed over into posts.

[EliSnow]

Obviously so was I . How would he even know I was Jewish? Or does my nose give me away?

Touche'

[Gvac]

You know now i'm really pissed. This thread has degenerated into joking. Im used to political threads turning into everyone spitting acid and hating each other. Thats it, Im going home.

(Btw since noone seems to get me, or maybe Im just not funny, that was also a joke, bad one at that)

I get you.

These guys have a pole up their ass when it comes to politics.

Come bust balls in another thread!

We'll waterboard the mods!

[Bestinshow]

I never encountered someone who is so Jewish that their nose is so big that it bleed over into posts.


Goes to show you don't know everything:tongue:

[The Jays]

I get you.

These guys have a pole up their ass when it comes to politics.

Come bust balls in another thread!

We'll waterboard the mods!

We have a pole up our asses because that's the way God made us. You have a pole up your ass because you choose to.

[badmonkey]

The problem with Pelosi is that she was briefed about waterboarding on more than 30 occasions when she was one of 8 U.S. citizens on the planet officially being made aware we were using that technique. Now that EVERYBODY knows we have waterboarded these 3 douches, she has tried to act outraged as tho she had no idea what was going on. After her 30 briefings in 2 years, she didn't think it was so bad. If she thought it was so bad, she should have said something or maybe written a letter like her colleague Rep. Jane Harmon.

So much information has been leaked to the press over the last 6 years about top secret things that the Bush administration was doing or wanted to do that I find it nearly impossible to believe that this wouldn't have been leaked if Pelosi really did have such strong objections to it.

The woman is corrupt and a disgrace to the people she represents.

[Gvac]

The woman is corrupt and a disgrace to the people she represents.

And that, my friends, is the crux of this thread.

Kudos, badmonkey.

[Bestinshow]

I get you.

These guys have a pole up their ass when it comes to politics.

Come bust balls in another thread!

We'll waterboard the mods!

Alot of the mods wont admit it but they enjoy waterboarding while having sex. its that sick asphixiation thing. I hear Mikeyboy can't orgasm without it.

[Gvac]

Alot of the mods wont admit it but they enjoy waterboarding while having sex. its that sick asphixiation thing. I hear Mikeyboy can't orgasm without it.

You have NO IDEA how creepy some of these mods are.

Really, really twisted individuals.

[TheMojoPin]

And that, my friends, is the crux of this thread.

Kudos, badmonkey.

The thread was started around Pelosi's knoweldge of torture, hence the related tangent.

I know reading instead of ranting is difficult, but it can come in handy from time to time.

[Gvac]

The thread was started around Pelosi's knoweldge of torture, hence the related tangent.

I know reading instead of ranting is difficult, but it can come in handy from time to time.

Take a deep breath.

It's going to be alright.

A hundred years from now it won't make a bit of difference what was said here.

We love you Mojo! :wub:

[TheMojoPin]

Shut up and get out.

OR ELSE.

[Gvac]

Shut up and get out.

OR ELSE.

I love it when you're forceful! :wub: :devil2:

[TheMojoPin]

*Jizzboards Gvac*

[The Jays]

Now that's just straight up gay.

[Gvac]

Don't judge us.

[The Jays]

I'm not judging, I am labeling.

[Gvac]

I'm not judging, I am labeling.

Fair enough you sexy bitch!

[TheMojoPin]

The real torture is that all the fluids were provided by JustJon and PanterA.

[Gvac]

The real torture is that all the fluids were provided by JustJon and PanterA.

Animal!

[SP1!]

I never get why people are surprised by political or religious leaders acting like dicks. You'd think everyone would be used to it by now.

It always amazes me that people think one party is better than the other, pelosi went along with everything because it was the thing to do at the time, if she felt that strongly about severe torture she would have stood up then.

The problem that if she stood up then she would have been signing her political death sentence, she knew it thats why she went along with it now shes getting raked over the coals and nobody is really coming to her aid or they will get scrutinized as well.

The fact remains that all politicians suck filthy monkey dick, the only way to fix this shit is to force term limits on them.

[TheMojoPin]

The fact remains that all politicians suck filthy monkey dick, the only way to fix this shit is to force term limits on them.

AJ, I'll let you handle this again.

[underdog]

The definition of the US' tactics as torture is not a "Left" thing. It's an internationally agrred upon thing.

Yes, but we all know the rest of the world has a liberal bias.

[Gvac]

It always amazes me that people think one party is better than the other, pelosi went along with everything because it was the thing to do at the time, if she felt that strongly about severe torture she would have stood up then.

The problem that if she stood up then she would have been signing her political death sentence, she knew it thats why she went along with it now shes getting raked over the coals and nobody is really coming to her aid or they will get scrutinized as well.

The fact remains that all politicians suck filthy monkey dick, the only way to fix this shit is to force term limits on them.

I like the cut of your jib, and I agree with everything you said.

[conman823]

The fact remains that all politicians suck filthy monkey dick, the only way to fix this shit is to force term limits on them.

Term limits are a must.


Also disband all "Parties" & ban Lobyists.

[TheMojoPin]

Term limits are a must.


Also disband all "Parties" & ban Lobyists.

It's stuff like this that just boggles my mind. It's simply not realistic at all and tantamount to political anarchy. It in no way resembles any kind of political structure America has had at ANY point in its history.

[epo]

It's stuff like this that just boggles my mind. It's simply not realistic at all and tantamount to political anarchy. It in no way resembles any kind of political structure America has had at ANY point in its history.

Don't worry...they like bumper stickers too.

[TheMojoPin]

Don't worry...they like bumper stickers too.

Well, who doesn't?

[epo]

Well, who doesn't?

Kick out the bums!

Send Pelosi home!

These colors don't run.

Git R Done

Stop Washington

[A.J.]

AJ, I'll let you handle this again.

Gee thanks.

As I said before... (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2235720&postcount=72)

[A.J.]

Al Queda

This hurts my eyes. It's Al-Qa'ida.

[TheMojoPin]

This hurts my eyes. It's Al-Qa'ida.

I'm anti-apostrophe.

[ecobag2]

fuck her - someone check her crotch.

hey... and only a few slots away from REAL power.

shudder shudder.

(can we get a shudder imoticon?)

[A.J.]

I'm anti-apostrophe.

But you like the hyphen. Curious.

[conman823]

It's stuff like this that just boggles my mind. It's simply not realistic at all and tantamount to political anarchy. It in no way resembles any kind of political structure America has had at ANY point in its history.

It boogles your mind that someone could stand up, campaign and win election to a public office without a party affiliation? That logic boggles MY mind. It can totally be done and it would lead to more HONEST answers to questions by the candidate and allow for more people to run in general. Its just not what we're used to in this country. Political Anarchy is a little harsh for the topic don't you think? What do the parties represent anyway? It lumps a candidate into the Party Line and compromises thier independent thoughts and views.

As far as the damage lobbists do, well just take a look at Prescription drug costs in this country.

[Gvac]

Term limits are a must.


Also disband all "Parties" & ban Lobyists.

I think I've found my running mate.

[TheMojoPin]

It boogles your mind that someone could stand up, campaign and win election to a public office without a party affiliation? That logic boggles MY mind. It can totally be done and it would lead to more HONEST answers to questions by the candidate and allow for more people to run in general. Its just not what we're used to in this country. Political Anarchy is a little harsh for the topic don't you think? What do the parties represent anyway? It lumps a candidate into the Party Line and compromises thier independent thoughts and views.

As far as the damage lobbists do, well just take a look at Prescription drug costs in this country.

Please explain how someone can win a national political office in this country without a political party considering it's never been done and really was never designed to have been done so. Political parties were expressly part and parcel of the whole "American experiment" from day one. As the country gets "bigger" it makes the idea of a truly "independent" candidate more mythical. There's simply too many people in the country to be that specific once you heat the national stage. It's impossible.

Term limits would just leave us at the eternal behest of political amateurs. Contrary to the romantic ideas otherwise, political experience is actually a good thing. And banning all lobbyists would be one of the more ridiculous violations of the 1st Ammendment in history. You've got to look at this realistically.

[epo]

I cannot tell you how many good candidates I've seen lose because they romanticize this notion of "being too good for the party". This is the dumbest phenomena in politics and is the biggest sign of a losing ticket.

[EliSnow]

And banning all lobbyists would be one of the more ridiculous violations of the 1st Ammendment in history. You've got to look at this realistically.

Well, other than his other suggestion of disbanding political parties.

[conman823]

Please explain how someone can win a national political office in this country without a political party considering it's never been done and really was never designed to have been done so. Political parties were expressly part and parcel of the whole "American experiment" from day one. As the country gets "bigger" it makes the idea of a truly "independent" candidate more mythical. There's simply too many people in the country to be that specific once you heat the national stage. It's impossible.

Term limits would just leave us at the eternal behest of political amateurs. Contrary to the romantic ideas otherwise, political experience is actually a good thing. And banning all lobbyists would be one of the more ridiculous violations of the 1st Ammendment in history. You've got to look at this realistically.

Well, other than his other suggestion of disbanding political parties.

Actually many of the founding Fathers were against political parties in this country from the start thats actual historic fact.

I truely believe that most of America shares your mindset about political parties and how independent people cannot run for any office. That is why this country is doomed to repeat the same mistakes and ultimately fail. Nobody can see past the status quo and try and truely "change" this country for the better. Nobody can institute truely radical ideas to give us a fresh start.

Political Experience? You have got to be joking right? Holding a chair long after your relevant doesn't give you political experience, it makes you an out of touch fat cat with no roots in the community you were elected to represent. Political amateurs might (heaven forbid) produce change and introduce bills that would help the people of the community they represent. It would mean that the LOBBYISTS who bought and paid for the old Senator etc, would now have to start all over again.

I understand though, its easy to just have it all be Black and White. Point fingers across the aisle. Blame MSNBC and FOX news for the problems with the country. Never shake things up or call for real change that might breed new ideas.

The 2 of you realize that had the 13 colonies thought your way we would have never been free. This country built on Revolution has become the very thing it rebeled against.

[EliSnow]

Actually many of the founding Fathers were against political parties in this country from the start thats actual historic fact.

Which ones? Given that several of them headed specific parties, I find it hard to believe. Regardles, while they may not have liked political parties, the First Amendment protects freedom of speech and freedom to associate. You cannot ban or disband parties without violating the First Amendment.

And violating the Amendment in that way would be a worse problem than political parties or lobbyists are.

[EliSnow]

The 2 of you realize that had the 13 colonies thought your way we would have never been free. This country built on Revolution has become the very thing it rebeled against.

No, it hasn't. It rebelled against a government that ruled, and in which they had no ability to participate in it or to have their voices heard.

Our system still has avenues for people to take part in the various government levels and change the things they dislike.

Generally, the people bitching about it are the people who have never even tried to do that.

[conman823]

No, it hasn't. It rebelled against a government that ruled, and in which they had no ability to participate in it or to have their voices heard.

Our system still has avenues for people to take part in the various government levels and change the things they dislike.

Generally, the people bitching about it are the people who have never even tried to do that.

Yeah if your wealthy and well off then maybe you can get involved and change some stuff. I would gladly run for public office but I lack money and backing from powerful political allies so my message would never be heard in this day and age.

Mostly today you: Have rich parents, get a Law Degree, use your Family influence to gain a polictical entry level spot, take money/ get bought, move up and repeat. If your lucky you might end up a Senator and just sit back, not care about the people you represent and take Lobbist money to buy summer homes.

"Ain't that America........"

[conman823]

Which ones? Given that several of them headed specific parties, I find it hard to believe. Regardles, while they may not have liked political parties, the First Amendment protects freedom of speech and freedom to associate. You cannot ban or disband parties without violating the First Amendment.

And violating the Amendment in that way would be a worse problem than political parties or lobbyists are.

Look up Washingtons political party.

[EliSnow]

Yeah if your wealthy and well off then maybe you can get involved and change some stuff. I would gladly run for public office but I lack money and backing from powerful political allies so my message would never be heard in this day and age.

Mostly today you: Have rich parents, get a Law Degree, use your Family influence to gain a polictical entry level spot, take money/ get bought, move up and repeat. If your lucky you might end up a Senator and just sit back, not care about the people you represent and take Lobbist money to buy summer homes.

"Ain't that America........"

And the founding fathers were wealthy, super-educated people as well. I think these facts are just as applicable now as they were throughout our history. It is easier for the wealthy, Ivy League educated citizens to choose a career in politics than it is for your average person.

But throughout you could come from a non-wealthy background and do well. You could even be the son of a poor immigrant and become President, like our current president. And I do have middle class college classmates who are involved in politics throughout the nation.

[EliSnow]

Look up Washingtons political party.

That's one Founder. I am fairly certain that Jefferson, Adams, Madison, and Franklin were big party people.

[conman823]

That's one Founder. I am fairly certain that Jefferson, Adams, Madison, and Franklyn were big party people.

They were, they were known for Toga Thursdays!

[SouthSideJohnny]

not because I have this "lib" pursuasion to attack all things red-elephant related, but because I'm fairly disgusted with our government's involvement in lying about why we went to war in Iraq, the conflict of interests between the war and with our Vice President at the time, our torture and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners, the continued insistence that Iraq was someone involved with 9-11 or that by going to war and occupying Iraq we somehow have made ourselves safer from terrorism when we haven't

Now, getting back to the point of this thread, did Nancy Pelosi lie about having been briefed? Who gives a shit? Honestly, I can't get a straight answer on it, but if she did or did not, doesn't this all just distract from the fact that we as a country torture prisoners? Her being briefed about waterboarding is on par with if she was being briefed on whether pizza was awesome. Whether she lies about being briefed or tells the truth, doesn't change the fact that pizza is awesome. If she lied, she's a cunt, if she told the truth, she's a cunt

Jays, I'm missing something here. You're disgusted about the lying in the Bush administration and then you enumerate several of those lies. However, when it comes to Pelosi allegedly lying about whether she was briefed on this serious issue, and specifically whether the CIA is lying to the public about what was in those briefings [which, to me, is a very serious allegation for a Speaker of the House to make publicly] you say it's on par to talking about pizza. Come on!! I've read your posts and you're clearly an intelligent poster, but that's disingenuous. If she's lying about this publicly, then yeah, she's a cunt (which I think she is anyways), but the inquiry and discussion needs to go well beyond that. The "distraction" is there only if you want it to be.

Was I pissed about some of the Bush lies at the time - absolutely!! I was in favor of questioning it at the time, but that didn't happen because it wasn’t politically expedient to do so. When it become politically advantageous to do so, the questions were finally asked. This shit about going back and attacking previous administrations and their administration lawyers after the fact is crap in my opinion. It sets a very dangerous precedent and it will never end. That’s much different from a key figure in a sitting administration (of either party) making false statements to the press. To save you the time of replying, I felt the same way when the Bush admin wanted to investigate everything Clinton did.

Put the partisanship aside and demand the same inquiry into Pelosi's allegedly false statements that you would if it was Newt Gingrich or Dennis Hastert we were talking about.

[epo]

Jays, I'm missing something here. You're disgusted about the lying in the Bush administration and then you enumerate several of those lies. However, when it comes to Pelosi allegedly lying about whether she was briefed on this serious issue, and specifically whether the CIA is lying to the public about what was in those briefings [which, to me, is a very serious allegation for a Speaker of the House to make publicly] you say it's on par to talking about pizza. Come on!! I've read your posts and you're clearly an intelligent poster, but that's disingenuous. If she's lying about this publicly, then yeah, she's a cunt (which I think she is anyways), but the inquiry and discussion needs to go well beyond that. The "distraction" is there only if you want it to be.

Was I pissed about some of the Bush lies at the time - absolutely!! I was in favor of questioning it at the time, but that didn't happen because it wasn’t politically expedient to do so. When it become politically advantageous to do so, the questions were finally asked. This shit about going back and attacking previous administrations and their administration lawyers after the fact is crap in my opinion. It sets a very dangerous precedent and it will never end. That’s much different from a key figure in a sitting administration (of either party) making false statements to the press. To save you the time of replying, I felt the same way when the Bush admin wanted to investigate everything Clinton did.

Put the partisanship aside and demand the same inquiry into Pelosi's allegedly false statements that you would if it was Newt Gingrich or Dennis Hastert we were talking about.

There is a simple way to look at this as the CIA and politicians both have a strong history of lying.

An investigation by a non-partisan body happens. If Pelosi is wrong, she faces punishment by the Congress, if the CIA actually lied to/is lying to members of Congress we kick said members of the CIA out of the agency.

[Gvac]

I'm currently trying to garner support for a bill that would make the death penalty mandatory for any government official caught lying to the American people.

Their execution would be a Pay-Per-View event and the cost would be tax deductible.

I'm a forward thinking kind of guy.

[epo]

I'm currently trying to garner support for a bill that would make the death penalty mandatory for any government official caught lying to the American people.

Their execution would be a Pay-Per-View event and the cost would be tax deductible.

I'm a forward thinking kind of guy.

And yet you want less government.

Hypocrite.

[Gvac]

And yet you want less government.

Hypocrite.

If we execute all the lying politicians don't you think we'll have less government?

[SouthSideJohnny]

An investigation by a non-partisan body happens. If Pelosi is wrong, she faces punishment by the Congress, if the CIA actually lied to/is lying to members of Congress we kick said members of the CIA out of the agency.

I agree - the liar should be punished. That was the point of my email about Jays' earlier email though. It appeared that he was "disgusted" by the Bush administration lies, but when the question about Pelosi's alleged lies was being discussed, he glossed over it as being insignificant and analagous to a discussion about pizza. I was merely pointing out the inconsistency.

[epo]

If we execute all the lying politicians don't you think we'll have less government?

I ask you to think of our government in this way:

The great perfection seems imperfect,
yet its usefulness is unfailing.

[Gvac]

And I ask you to strive for the ideal

Govern the country by being straightforward.
Wage war by being crafty.
Win all under heaven by not meddling.

How do I know that this is so?
By what is within me.

The more restrictions there are, the poorer are the people.
The more pointed the people's weapons,
the more disorder there is in the country.
The more ingenious and clever the people,
the more strange the contrivances that appear.
The more laws and edicts that are posted,
the more thieves and robbers that arise.

Hence an Old One has said:
I act without striving and the people transform themselves.
I love stillness and the people straighten themselves.
I do not meddle and the people prosper by themselves.
I am free from desires and the people themselves
return to the simplicity of the Uncarved Block.

[The Jays]

Jays, I'm missing something here. You're disgusted about the lying in the Bush administration and then you enumerate several of those lies. However, when it comes to Pelosi allegedly lying about whether she was briefed on this serious issue, and specifically whether the CIA is lying to the public about what was in those briefings [which, to me, is a very serious allegation for a Speaker of the House to make publicly] you say it's on par to talking about pizza. Come on!! I've read your posts and you're clearly an intelligent poster, but that's disingenuous. If she's lying about this publicly, then yeah, she's a cunt (which I think she is anyways), but the inquiry and discussion needs to go well beyond that. The "distraction" is there only if you want it to be.

Was I pissed about some of the Bush lies at the time - absolutely!! I was in favor of questioning it at the time, but that didn't happen because it wasn’t politically expedient to do so. When it become politically advantageous to do so, the questions were finally asked. This shit about going back and attacking previous administrations and their administration lawyers after the fact is crap in my opinion. It sets a very dangerous precedent and it will never end. That’s much different from a key figure in a sitting administration (of either party) making false statements to the press. To save you the time of replying, I felt the same way when the Bush admin wanted to investigate everything Clinton did.

Put the partisanship aside and demand the same inquiry into Pelosi's allegedly false statements that you would if it was Newt Gingrich or Dennis Hastert we were talking about.

I can't get a straight answer as to whether or not she lied or not, but frankly, in the grand scheme of things, her lying about it is does not rank quite as high as, say, our torturing of prisoners. Investigating her alleged "lying" would seem to be a waste of time when we're trying to get government to be more efficient. Same as investigating President Bush's lying... we already know he lied, and we judged him by making sure not to vote Republicans into office.

Honestly, if she did lie, did it put our troops lives in danger? Does her being briefed on waterboarding change the fact that we tortured our prisoners? George Bush's lies put our country in danger, it gave the terrorists, as well as the Middle East, more of a reason to hate us and cause us harm. Our torture of prisoners put us in danger, because now we put our soldiers at risk to have the same done to them. That's sorta why we as a planet came up with the Geneva Convention, to have a moral high ground, protect the lives of all prisoners, and punish those who don't follow.

So, am I being hippocritical because I'm looking past Pelosi's lie and slamming Bush's lies? Maybe, but Pelosi's lie is about getting a briefing on whether we're waterboarding or not. Bush's lies are about putting our troops lives at risk by invading a country we should have never invaded and by torturing prisoners that are in our possession with no regard for the reprisal for both actions. When I put the two on a scale, Bush tips the scale in less than a second in terms of the gravity of his lies.

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah if your wealthy and well off then maybe you can get involved and change some stuff. I would gladly run for public office but I lack money and backing from powerful political allies so my message would never be heard in this day and age.

Mostly today you: Have rich parents, get a Law Degree, use your Family influence to gain a polictical entry level spot, take money/ get bought, move up and repeat. If your lucky you might end up a Senator and just sit back, not care about the people you represent and take Lobbist money to buy summer homes.

"Ain't that America........"

Why do you say "today" as if it's somehow different than what we've had before? Our country was founded by the wealthy, educated, land-owning elite. If you have beef with those people rising to the top, you have beef with this entire system and country from day one.

Most of the founding gathers were career politicians. Washington was an anomaly in that he really wasn't a politician. He also was arguably not a very dynamic president at all, or even individually one of our better ones. His most brilliant decisions, however, was to surround himself with able career politicians. Washington is a terrible argument against big politics and career politicians because he needed all of those things for his presidency to succeed.

[TheMojoPin]

There is a simple way to look at this as the CIA and politicians both have a strong history of lying.

Bingo.

I have little doubt that Pelosi is trying to cover her ass in this regards, but I also think that the CIA fudged just who was informed about what and just how much did they know. You've got other people, Republicans included, claiming the same thing as Pelosi. I'm sure many of them are trying to just duck criticism, but Bob Graham's accusations that the CIA is overstating the briefings holds a lot weight with me. The man was notrious for his record keeping when in office and odds are in all of his journals and logs and records there is NO mention of several of the meetings the CIA claimed they had with him and his aides, the CIA is likely stretching the truth here trying to divert blame.

[epo]

And I ask you to strive for the ideal

You say that, yet you want more legislation.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to comprehend the subtle way of the universe.

[TheMojoPin]

Gvac is very much Donnie from the Big Lebowski.

[A.J.]

If we execute all the lying politicians don't you think we'll have less government?

We'll have NO government.

It'll be anarchy, I tells ya! ANARCHY!

[TheMojoPin]

epo: Hey, do you know what the Whip does?

Gvac: What whip?

epo: The Whip. In the Senate, in the House.

Gvac: Well, you know in the old days, when the senators didn't vote the way
that the party leaders wanted 'em to... they whipped them! "You better vote the way we want you to, or there's gonna be BIG trouble!"

[blakjeezis]

1) Libs
2) Terrorists
3) More Libs


What about Mad Libs? Nancy Pelosi is a(n) (adverb) (adjective) (noun)

*My first post in years and I fuck it up. Real smooth, Ex-Lax.

[epo]

Panetta admits that CIA lied to Congress. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/07/what-did-the-cia-lie-to-congress-about-and-where-was-cheney.html)

Democratic members of the House Intelligence Committee set off a political bombshell this week. In a leaked letter, they disclosed that CIA Director Leon Panetta -- four months after taking office -- learned that his agency had misled Congress about a special project. He canceled the program and scheduled closed-door meetings with the House and Senate Intelligence Committees the next day to brief them.

Each one of you cocksuckers owe the Speaker of the House an apology. Especially you Gvac.

[badmonkey]

Panetta admits that CIA lied to Congress. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/07/what-did-the-cia-lie-to-congress-about-and-where-was-cheney.html)



Each one of you cocksuckers owe the Speaker of the House an apology. Especially you Gvac.

From the LA Times blog you referenced:

Early speculation rested on waterboarding, a technique the Bush administration used in interrogating terrorists. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had earlier accused the CIA of misleading her on use of the controversial practice. But President Obama has already banned waterboarding, so it's not something Panetta would need to shut down.

As one unnamed former intelligence official told the Washington Post, "This characterization of something that began in 2001 and continued uninterrupted for eight years is just wrong. Honest men would question that characterization. It was more off and on." If the nature of the program could be revealed, said the source, it would be seen as "no big deal."

Swing and a miss. They didn't lie to congress about it. They didn't tell them about it at all. Cancel that apology for Mrs. Pelosi until congress is finished with their investigation into her claims. Oh wait.. they're not going to investigate (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23798.html).

It's still a secret program. Now it's just a cancelled secret program.

[badmonkey]

So much for separation of church and state. That shit's only important when you don't need the church to advance your agenda. Tell'em Nancy!

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http://cnsnews.com/news/article/65513

[pennington]

So much for separation of church and state. That shit's only important when you don't need the church to advance your agenda. Tell'em Nancy!

How about if the priests, ministers, rabbis, etc. preach to get the deficit under control first.

[torker]

How about if the priests, ministers, rabbis, etc. preach to get the deficit under control first.

they might lose the ol' tax exempt status

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How about if the priests, ministers, rabbis, etc. preach to get the deficit under control first.

The Imams would want to just "slash" the deficit