Enough with the confederate flag already!

[Aggie]

It really pisses me off sometimes. I just saw one and it enraged me. Other times I just think they're idiots and go on my merry way. Why can't this be dead already?

This one angers me most...a heart, really?????

http://www.decaljunky.com/cart/images/PRODUCT/icon/5721.jpg

[ANC]

At least you're not seeing it in South NJ... :wallbash:

[Crispy123]

I believe in the argument that it is a symbol and the meaning behind it is only what you as the viewer give it. I respect peoples choice to display it and I love that they can in this country. I personally think it represents the losing side of the civil war and dont have any pride in it and feel that the people who fly it are sad. That being said if I saw a black guy punch some dude getting out of a pickup with a big old CF in the window, I would laff and laff.

[CountryBob]

You know - half the time I feel that alot of rednecks embrace the confederate flag just for shock value and really dont walk the life that many people would think they do. But then, the other half - and I know a few of them very well - are complete assholes that are filled with hate. I used to have a confed flag in high school just as a symbol of being a country boy - but once I realized the implications of what people thought of me - I got rid of it and cant stand it now. One dude in town has a house that is about 10 feet below the road - his roof is painted in a confederate flag and everybody driving by gets to see it.

[TjM]

I once saw a shirt in FLA that said on the front


"You wear your X" with a Malcom X symbol


and on the back it said


"And I'll wear mine" with the Confederate flag

[JustJon]

"The South Shall Rise Again!"

Really? When?

[boosterp]

Yea, I agree with the sentiment here. It is an outdated symbol of ignorance that needs to be retired.

[ToiletCrusher]

I like that 50 miles south of Buffalo where my cabin is, people there have confederate flags. It's the fucking north!

[Chigworthy]

What if you just like the dukes of hazard?

[TripleSkeet]

Honestly, thats allI think of when I see it. Is the Dukes of Hazard. Its become meaningless anymore. Not even worth my attention.

[Death Metal Moe]

At least you're not seeing it in South NJ... :wallbash:

At least that's "South" in the state. It's really great when you see it in Sussex county. You fucking morons, you're hundreds of miles from the Mason Dixon line in a very Old European influenced section of the state nestled between Pennsylvania and New York. Not exactly what I think of when I envision the Confederacy.

The flag doesn't stand for outdoor living, trucks, guns, beer and keeping "Speak English or Die" bumpers stickers on your vehicle. It's the old battle standard of a part of our country that wanted to succeed from the Union and keep slavery going.

Also, is it just me to do most of these guys seem to get the 2 for 1 deal that includes a flag and a Larry the Cable Guy hat?

[Death Metal Moe]

Actually what am I even talking about. I've seen Confederate flags in Wanaque.

[Furtherman]

Honestly, thats allI think of when I see it. Is the Dukes of Hazard. Its become meaningless anymore. Not even worth my attention.

Same here. It's the Dukes flag to me.

[Contra]

They should make shirts that say "you wear your X" with the confederate flag, and in the back it says "and I'll call you a fucking moron"

[led37zep]

Growing up in California and watching the Dukes of Hazard I never really associated the flag with else till much later in life. I had friends that had it on their trucks but again, it was more a symbol of being a country boy/rebel type than slavery or oppression.

Then again, pretty much all white school so no real outside opinion there.

[epo]

Yea, I agree with the sentiment here. It is an outdated symbol of ignorance that needs to be retired.

I agree, but it certainly is nice when assholes self-identify themselves for me.

[ScottFromGA]

It really pisses me off sometimes. I just saw one and it enraged me. Other times I just think they're idiots and go on my merry way. Why can't this be dead already?

This one angers me most...a heart, really?????

http://www.decaljunky.com/cart/images/PRODUCT/icon/5721.jpg

is it really any worse than black people wearing Obama t-shirts that say "WE DID IT" all over it?


no....like I said in another post, its a part of my families past....and its something I'm not gonna let the PC get me down about and fall into White Mans Guilt. I know what the Confederate Flag was meant for....and thats my opinion.

[Death Metal Moe]

I agree, but it certainly is nice when assholes self-identify themselves for me.

That's a good point. They should wear them on job interviews too, let everybody know how proud you are of "The South" and what their goals were during the Civil War.

[epo]

is it really any worse than black people wearing Obama t-shirts that say "WE DID IT" all over it?

no....like I said in another post, its a part of my families past....and its something I'm not gonna let the PC get me down about and fall into White Mans Guilt. I know what the Confederate Flag was meant for....and thats my opinion.

Umm...I actually know alot of white people who own "Yes we did" shirts.

People looking down upon the Confederate Flag has nothing to do with white man's guilt and I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Death Metal Moe]

is it really any worse than black people wearing Obama t-shirts that say "WE DID IT" all over it?


no....like I said in another post, its a part of my families past....and its something I'm not gonna let the PC get me down about and fall into White Mans Guilt. I know what the Confederate Flag was meant for....and thats my opinion.

....wow dude, I know you've been around here for awhile so I'm gonna try to be nice about this but that is a very weak argument.

A black person wearing a Pro Obama shirt doesn't also carry with it a message that they want white people in shackles.

The Confederate Flag does remind us all of blacks under white ownership. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way but for most of the country it does remind us of that.

I'm not being a guilty white guy about it, just my opinion that I'm sure others share. I still say you should have the right to display it unlike in Germany where they have banned public displays of most to all things Nazi. But you need to be aware how people feel about that flag and what some will interpret when you display it. If that's OK with you then wonderful. Fly your flag.

[led37zep]

.
I'm not being a guilty white guy about it

I would completely understand Death Metal if it was fueled by White Guilt.

[Contra]

Yeah DMM pretty much said what I was going to. I know some people around here in PA that fly it on trucks and cars and such. They too fly it as a symbol of being a redneck and a "good ole boy". Plus they're REALLY fucking racist.

[boosterp]

Growing up in California and watching the Dukes of Hazard I never really associated the flag with else till much later in life. I had friends that had it on their trucks but again, it was more a symbol of being a country boy/rebel type than slavery or oppression.

Then again, pretty much all white school so no real outside opinion there.

That is how I felt for a long time too, until a black Army budday from Alabama sat down with me and had a discussion regarding his views.

I agree, but it certainly is nice when assholes self-identify themselves for me.

There is this ass who drives around here in his Chevy truck with the confederate flag tattooed on his right (or left) arm, and fits the stereotype perfectly.

[JimBeam]

This argument that the Confederacy was soley about slavery is nonsense.

It's like saying World War II was fought only over the Holocaust

Slavery was around under the good old American flag for much longer than it ever was under the Confederate one.

So is it ignorant to wear any version of the American flag prior to 1865 ?

They should wear them on job interviews too, let everybody know how proud you are of "The South" and what their goals were during the Civil War.

OK, and I'd love to see somebody wear the previoulsy mentioned Obama shirt, or a " Kiss Me I'm Irish " shirt or an " Italians Do It Better " shirt to an interview.

Now your beliefs, whatever they may be, should prevent you from getting a job ?

Goals ?

Maybe states rights which to this day are still being discussed and are a huge issue.

Maybe the southern states doing exactly what the 13 colonies had done previously ?

Breaking from a nation that they felt was opressing them.

Remember the south wasn't forcing slavery on anybody. They were just trying to maintain it in their own states.

They could give a sh*t what New York and New Jersey thought.

And Aggie I think that picture of the Confederate flag in the heart is meant to symbolize " The Heart Of Dixie ".

They're not advocating the return of slavery.

[Death Metal Moe]

Yeah DMM pretty much said what I was going to. I know some people around here in PA that fly it on trucks and cars and such. They too fly it as a symbol of being a redneck and a "good ole boy". Plus they're REALLY fucking racist.

That's the little secret part about it. All the people I've ever seen with Confederate Flags have that racism inside, but would NEVER actually say anything in public.

It's usually when you're all alone with them and you get that "I can't believe an N is the president" bullshit. I just can't believe that most of the people flying that flag are doing it out of "Historical Respect for their Heritage." A few, but a lot of them are either misunderstanding what it means or even worse, know exactly what it means and still fly it.

[Death Metal Moe]

This argument that the Confederacy was soley about slavery is nonsense.

It's like saying World War II was fought only over the Holocaust

Slavery was around under the good old American flag for much longer than it ever was under the Confederate one.

So is it ignorant to wear any version of the American flag prior to 1865 ?



OK, and I'd love to see somebody wear the previoulsy mentioned Obama shirt, or a " Kiss Me I'm Irish " shirt or an " Italians Do It Better " shirt to an interview.

Now your beliefs, whatever they may be, should prevent you from getting a job ?

Goals ?

Maybe states rights which to this day are still being discussed and are a huge issue.

Maybe the southern states doing exactly what the 13 colonies had done previously ?

Breaking from a nation that they felt was opressing them.

Remember the south wasn't forcing slavery on anybody. They were just trying to maintain it in their own states.

They could give a sh*t what New York and New Jersey thought.

And Aggie I think that picture of the Confederate flag in the heart is meant to symbolize " The Heart Of Dixie ".

They're not advocating the return of slavery.

OF COURSE the Civil War wasn't solely a war about Slavery. No one said that. We all know that.

We're talking about the perception and the misguided use of the flag today. Go ahead, fly it. It's going to label you in some people's eyes.

[Gvac]

My belt buckle from Jr. High -

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c34/Gvac/SkynyrdBuckle.jpg

Yeeeeehaaaa!

[boosterp]

Maybe states rights which to this day are still being discussed and are a huge issue.

They're not advocating the return of slavery.

I am not busting balls but the Confederate flag never represented one state and was used by the south as their "country's" flag. The deadliest war ever fought by our country was the Civil war, why do we want to honor that? Yet, we should continue to learn from our mistakes and move forward.

[JimBeam]

And you know what people are gonna judge other people for all sorts of reasons.

If you have an earring in your ear, if you have long hair, if you're hair is anything other than black/blonde/red/brown, etc ...

To each his own.

I don't own one, fly one or anything like that but it bothers me when people are so obbsessed with it.

99% of the people that wear anything w/ that symbol are not doing it in any harmful, top them, way.

Its a cultural symbol for many that indicates the South and that's it. No hidden meaning.

[JimBeam]

I am not busting balls but the Confederate flag never represented one state and was used by the south as their "country's" flag. The deadliest war ever fought by our country was the Civil war, why do we want to honor that? Yet, we should continue to learn from our mistakes and move forward.

The people wearing this aren't asking the rest of us to honor a damn thing.

Many deaths under the misguided beliefs of a few Christians throughout history but we haven't decided to do away with the cross/crucifix.

Many people of Islamic faith killing in the name of their religion but we don't decide to ban the symbols associated with that religion.

[ScottFromGA]

....wow dude, I know you've been around here for awhile so I'm gonna try to be nice about this but that is a very weak argument.

A black person wearing a Pro Obama shirt doesn't also carry with it a message that they want white people in shackles.

The Confederate Flag does remind us all of blacks under white ownership. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way but for most of the country it does remind us of that.

I'm not being a guilty white guy about it, just my opinion that I'm sure others share. I still say you should have the right to display it unlike in Germany where they have banned public displays of most to all things Nazi. But you need to be aware how people feel about that flag and what some will interpret when you display it. If that's OK with you then wonderful. Fly your flag.

I really have nothing to add back, not because you've shut me up, bascially cause this arguement could go on for months and I really don't mind to keep adding to something that will never be resolved.

Only thing I really can say is if people took the time and actually researched the Confederate Flag, its not meant as a symbol of racism and hate. Over the years, its been made that way cause of the stupid KKK and Skinheads that are using it in those ways. Those are not views that I share.

And as far as, "Fly My Flag".....I haven't owned one in years, Moe. I am aware of how folks will view it, but like I said previously....I grew up the proper way and I have knowledge of what the flag was meant for....and I don't view it for hate. It's apart of my Southern Heritiage, and I can't help that.

[Contra]

I don't think we are saying YOU would fly it as a sign of racism, I'm saying that probably 90% of people that do have racist tendencies. If you think different, then you took a REALLY big sip of the kool aid.

[Death Metal Moe]

I really have nothing to add back, not because you've shut me up, bascially cause this arguement could go on for months and I really don't mind to keep adding to something that will never be resolved.

Only thing I really can say is if people took the time and actually researched the Confederate Flag, its not meant as a symbol of racism and hate. Over the years, its been made that way cause of the stupid KKK and Skinheads that are using it in those ways. Those are not views that I share.

And as far as, "Fly My Flag".....I haven't owned one in years, Moe. I am aware of how folks will view it, but like I said previously....I grew up the proper way and I have knowledge of what the flag was meant for....and I don't view it for hate. It's apart of my Southern Heritiage, and I can't help that.

Well I wasn't trying to make a fool of you, so I'm gad you didn't take it like that. I did feel what you said was a kind of weak argument so I'm glad you expanded on it. The problem really is the perception of the flag. If you are aware of what you may be perceived as and don't care then OK. But it's there and outside of groups of people in the South it's really not taken that well.

[boosterp]

I am proud to be from Texas, proud to be southern, and proud of my heritage especially since my relatives were not here during the Civil War. I display the Texas flag equally with the American one per our law out of pride. Does that mean I am associated with Texas being the last state to end slavery? Not at all. Luckily other than monuments there are no other symbols of that era to display.

I can not help that many in the country see the Confederate flag the way they do but as I had previously stated it is out dated and should be retired. It is not a sign of heritage nor is a symbol of the south. And it sure as hell is not a symbol that I would have in my possession.

The people wearing this aren't asking the rest of us to honor a damn thing.

Many deaths under the misguided beliefs of a few Christians throughout history but we haven't decided to do away with the cross/crucifix.

Many people of Islamic faith killing in the name of their religion but we don't decide to ban the symbols associated with that religion.

I'd agree, hence why I was not busting balls.

[Death Metal Moe]

And really, it's the flag of a losing side. You really want to represent that?

[Contra]

I still love the yankees, and the Jets, just saying

[brettmojo]

I think Jimbeam and Scott pretty much have the right idea.

....wow dude, I know you've been around here for awhile so I'm gonna try to be nice about this but that is a very weak argument.

A black person wearing a Pro Obama shirt doesn't also carry with it a message that they want white people in shackles.

The Confederate Flag does remind us all of blacks under white ownership. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way but for most of the country it does remind us of that.

I'm not being a guilty white guy about it, just my opinion that I'm sure others share. I still say you should have the right to display it unlike in Germany where they have banned public displays of most to all things Nazi. But you need to be aware how people feel about that flag and what some will interpret when you display it. If that's OK with you then wonderful. Fly your flag.

If you see the confederate flag and only think of slavery then you are being a guilty whitey. The flag has nothing to do with slavery. As Jim pointed out the south was fighting for the right to govern themselves as states. Lincoln introduced ending slavery to keep the Europeans from helping the confederacy. Later on yes, it was adopted as a symbol by white supremacists and other hate mongering groups.

And a good part of this country is the south. I'm not sure if most of them see that flag the same way you do.

I don't think we are saying YOU would fly it as a sign of racism, I'm saying that probably 90% of people that do have racist tendencies. If you think different, then you took a REALLY big sip of the kool aid.

I'm glad we have an expert in this thread on the tendencies of confederate flag bearers.

I can not help that many in the country see the Confederate flag the way they do but as I had previously stated it is out dated and should be retired. It is not a sign of heritage nor is a symbol of the south. And it sure as hell is not a symbol that I would have in my possession.

Yeah, let's sweep it away because it shames some people because to them it represents some of the less tasteful times in American history. If we hide it away then maybe everyone will forget about it and we can pretend it never happened! Holy crap.

Again, this is how you feel about it, not how all southerners feel.

This trend in this country of telling everyone else how they should feel about something because others don't feel the same is really sad. It couldn't be any more unamerican. To label someone because of a flag is being no better than what you think the people who waive that flag are. Instead of educating people about it I guess it's easier just to erase it from view. That's the PC thing to do.

If the show got in trouble tomorrow and pulled off the air because of something said on the air that a certain group of people found offensive there would be 20 page thread of people on this board outraged. Why? Because one group of people are forcing their views on everybody. But when it comes to a flag I guess it's ok because oh... It's just affecting a bunch of dumb rednecks.

[biozombie]

How about just waving the flag of the winning team?

[boosterp]

Yeah, let's sweep it away because it shames some people because to them it represents some of the less tasteful times in American history. If we hide it away then maybe everyone will forget about it and we can pretend it never happened! Holy crap.

Again, this is how you feel about it, not how all southerners feel.

This trend in this country of telling everyone else how they should feel about something because others don't feel the same is really sad. It couldn't be any more unamerican. To label someone because of a flag is being no better than what you think the people who waive that flag are. Instead of educating people about it I guess it's easier just to erase it from view. That's the PC thing to do.

If the show got in trouble tomorrow and pulled off the air because of something said on the air that a certain group of people found offensive there would be 20 page thread of people on this board outraged. Why? Because one group of people are forcing their views on everybody. But when it comes to a flag I guess it's ok because oh... It's just affecting a bunch of dumb rednecks.

I said retired, not forgotten. History teaches us a lot in the area of our mistakes and also what we have done right thus, we should never forget our history.

[DukeFett]

I'm pretty surprised so many people here are against it, I think it's just whatever. If WWII and the nazis weren't so tied to the holocaust, would we look at the swastika flag the same way? I don't think so, people make it a symbol of the holocaust, obviously horrible I don't think we need to get into that, but it was just the flag of the nazi party, not the jew killing party.

The confederate flag is pretty much the same deal to me, it's tied to slavery. I more align the flag with in general being a rebel, not necessarily even support for the CSA, which I doubt many people actually would say they 'support'. I'm not saying there's not a bunch of stupid racists who think that's all the flag means, but you can take any symbol and add a meaning to it.

Is the flag used by morons a plenty? I'm sure it is, but geez getting rid of it altogether because of that? Come on. It is all about perception, but what are just gonna start judging people on how they look now too? Just ignore it if it bothers you.

[furie]

it's the emblem of a failed cause
i agree, retire it.

[Death Metal Moe]

If you see the confederate flag and only think of slavery then you are being a guilty whitey. The flag has nothing to do with slavery. As Jim pointed out the south was fighting for the right to govern themselves as states. Lincoln introduced ending slavery to keep the Europeans from helping the confederacy. Later on yes, it was adopted as a symbol by white supremacists and other hate mongering groups.


Umm, the flag has to do with slavery, it's just that it also has to do with a lot more than JUST slavery. Slavery was an issue in the war. You say I ignore history, to say the Confederate flag has NOTHING to do with slavery is doing just that.

And all jokes aside, I've been saying that it's the perception of the flag not the flag itself that is the problem at this point.

And don't label too many Americans "Guilty Whites" like it's their fault. History has really colored what we think of the Civil War and the motives each side had. It's not smart for the populous to take what they learned in school as fact just because it's in a book but that's the understanding a lot of people have.

Again, we're talking about perceptions here.

[DukeFett]

And all jokes aside, I've been saying that it's the perception of the flag not the flag itself that is the problem at this point.

I don't get why we're banning/retiring things on perception now. You're basing this on the thought that the majority of people having a problem with the flag. If I wear a band shirt with skulls or whatever on it, the perception that the majority of people get is that I'm somehow crazy or weird for enjoying the symbols of a band I like. Am I supposed to not wear something I like because of perception?

I should edit this with that I'm not trying to equate any teasing and whatnot I got in HS to the connotation of slavery with the flag, I'm just saying, if you're going with the perception argument.

[TheMojoPin]

The idea of the Civil War being over "states' rights" and not really over slavery is a historical whitewash birthed out of the myth of the romanticized "Old South" that emerged after the failure of Reconstruction by the 1890's.

The Civil War was over slavery. It was not, however, over the idea of the North destroying slavery in the South. It was over the hotbed issue of whether or not newly admitted states to the Union would be free or slave and how that would sway the national political balance. The Southern slave states felt that new states would more often than not end up being free states and their political (and eventually economic) power would be marginalized.

[Death Metal Moe]

I don't get why we're banning/retiring things on perception now. You're basing this on the thought that the majority of people having a problem with the flag. If I wear a band shirt with skulls or whatever on it, the perception that the majority of people get is that I'm somehow crazy or weird for enjoying the symbols of a band I like. Am I supposed to not wear something I like because of perception?

I should edit this with that I'm not trying to equate any teasing and whatnot I got in HS to the connotation of slavery with the flag, I'm just saying, if you're going with the perception argument.

I never said "ban the flag." I never say BAN anything, this is America and the part of me that has always been for personal freedoms wants you to be able to hang the flag if you want.

I'm glad you brought up band T-shirts. I wish I could wear whatever I wanted, but I know I can't. I could buy a metal T-shirt with Jesus jacking off all over Mary's face as Satan was jamming dildos up both their asses, but I don't. It's not cool that you get looked at differently, but ya do. Eventually you have to realize there is a cause and effect in life. I've worn "evil" shirts to support local bands before but I wear them under something and show them at the club.

The part of me that wanted to jam my ideas down other's throats for shock value died when I was like 17.

[epo]

The idea of the Civil War being over "states' rights" and not really over slavery is a historical whitewash birthed out of the myth of the romanticized "Old South" that emerged after the failure of Reconstruction by the 1890's.

The Civil War was over slavery. It was not, however, over the idea of the North destroying slavery in the South. It was over the hotbed issue of whether or not newly admitted states to the Union would be free or slave and how that would sway the national political balance. The Southern slave states felt that new states would more often than not end up being free states and their political (and eventually economic) power would be marginalized.

If they claim that the Civil War WASN'T about slavery, then it was definitely about treason.

[TheMojoPin]

If they claim that the Civil War WASN'T about slavery, then it was definitely about treason.

I just never understand why people want to dance around slavery being the main issue. It was THE divisive national issue of the day well beyond anything else. It was the context for all the major issues in the years leading up to the war that ultimately caused it.

[Death Metal Moe]

I was just willing to say "Not JUST about slavery." But yea, don't act like slavery was just another issue discussed around the water cooler back then. It was a serious moral dilemma.

[DukeFett]

I never said "ban the flag." I never say BAN anything, this is America and the part of me that has always been for personal freedoms wants you to be able to hang the flag if you want.

I'm glad you brought up band T-shirts. I wish I could wear whatever I wanted, but I know I can't. I could buy a metal T-shirt with Jesus jacking off all over Mary's face as Satan was jamming dildos up both their asses, but I don't. It's not cool that you get looked at differently, but ya do. Eventually you have to realize there is a cause and effect in life. I've worn "evil" shirts to support local bands before but I wear them under something and show them at the club.

The part of me that wanted to jam my ideas down other's throats for shock value died when I was like 17.

I figured you might relate to the band shirt reference haha, if anyone on here would. I just don't like the idea of looking down on stuff just from others perceptions, it's never worked for me.

Aside from that and the entirety of the discussion going on here, that heart with the flag in the op is just ridiculous.

[Death Metal Moe]

Well it's been an extremely civil discussion with a few disagreements so since I have nothing new to add I'm gonna punch out of this thread before I add something stupid and bring it down. We've all said our piece and I don't have anything more to add on this topic.

[TripleSkeet]

I really dont see the flag as a racist symbol. I guess it would be the context. If I saw a guy with a Texas license plate and a bumper sticker on that flag I wouldnt automatically think hes a racist.

Now if he a t-shirt with it on that said "Lee surrendered, I didnt" well, then thats a different story.

Either way, calling someone a racist and judging them by a picture on their shirt is no less wrong or different then seeing a black guy with his hat sideways and a leather Malcolm X jacket and assuming hes a drug dealing thug.

[TheMojoPin]

I don't automatically consider a person rocking the stars and bars to be racist.

Racism requires the predjudiced person to have some kind of power that can be shaped by their predjudices, and a Confederate flag wearer has got shit.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

I don't care. I'm glad to see that even rednecks have some appreciation of history.

[Freakshow]

At least that's "South" in the state. It's really great when you see it in Sussex county. You fucking morons, you're hundreds of miles from the Mason Dixon line in a very Old European influenced section of the state nestled between Pennsylvania and New York. Not exactly what I think of when I envision the Confederacy.


it's actully not 'hundreds of miles away,' since the Mason-Dixon line runs between MD and PA...

I love seeing them in West Virigina, makes no sense at all.

[Death Metal Moe]

it's actully not 'hundreds of miles away,' since the Mason-Dixon line runs between MD and PA...

I love seeing them in West Virigina, makes no sense at all.

Well yea, I figured it was at least 200 so that's more than one hundred. Come on man, gimmie SOMETHING!

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Historical accuracy is for feebs. Thumbs way fucking down.

[jessicaduh]

the south is just fucking weird. i mean, there are a few southern things i love, but for the most part, completely bizarre.

[A.J.]

I've never seen such pride in being a loser.

[sailor]

I don't automatically consider a person rocking the stars and bars to be racist.

Racism requires the predjudiced person to have some kind of power that can be shaped by their predjudices, and a Confederate flag wearer has got shit.

there's no such need for power for racism (http://www.adl.org/hate-patrol/racism.asp) to exist.

I've never seen such pride in being a loser.

http://www.topnews.in/files/NAZI.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

there's no such need for power for racism (http://www.adl.org/hate-patrol/racism.asp) to exist.

Actually, there is. It's typically used incorrectly, like on the website you linked to, but that's the critical difference between racism and being predjudiced. A racist needs to somehow be in a position or context of power. It's basically the ability to "use" their predjudice against someone else.

[Kublakhan61]

Either way, calling someone a racist and judging them by a picture on their shirt is no less wrong or different then seeing a black guy with his hat sideways and a leather Malcolm X jacket and assuming hes a drug dealing thug.

Malcolm X jackets shouldn't equate with drug dealing considering Malcolm X spoke out against drug use ... but your point is still valid.

[topless_mike]

when i see the confederate flag, all i think is it was part of our history when the south wanted to become independent, much like the 13 colonies flag. to each their own, i guess.

[sailor]

Actually, there is. It's typically used incorrectly, like on the website you linked to, but that's the critical difference between racism and being predjudiced. A racist needs to somehow be in a position or context of power. It's basically the ability to "use" their predjudice against someone else.

merriam-webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism) seems to disagree. you seem to be leaning towards discrimination.

[TheMojoPin]

merriam-webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism) seems to disagree. you seem to be leaning towards discrimination.

Like I said, it's been typically used/understood incorrectly over the years.

Discrimination is only one type of racism, though as a whole it is not defined solely by racial motivations. Non-racial discrimination is very common.

The pages you keep citing are basically describing being racially predjudiced, but there's a huge difference between that and actually being racist. The most simple way to put it is as such: predjudice + power = racism. Without the power someone is just racially predjudiced.

[CountryBob]

I live right in the heart of redneckville and when ever I see a confed flag I dont think of slavery or of what the majority in this country symbolize with that flag, all I think of is another damn redneck trying to act tough. So, I feel that alot of us in the south dont symbolize that flag with what alot of our northern brothers do. Im not saying my view is right or your view is right but it is what it is - a flag.

[sailor]

Like I said, it's been typically used/understood incorrectly over the years.

Discrimination is only one type of racism, though as a whole it is not defined solely by racial motivations. Non-racial discrimination is very common.

The pages you keep citing are basically describing being racially predjudiced, but there's a huge difference between that and actually being racist. The most simple way to put it is as such: predjudice + power = racism. Without the power someone is just racially predjudiced.

so, you're right and the dictionary is wrong? you're bonkers. it's the definition of the word racism. what more do you want?

[Crispy123]

Malcolm X jackets shouldn't equate with drug dealing considering Malcolm X spoke out against drug use ... but your point is still valid.

He spoke against it but was still a drug dealer for most of his life so since what the south was fighting for was States rights, not expressly slavery, it is a pretty fair comparison.

[TheMojoPin]

so, you're right and the dictionary is wrong? you're bonkers. it's the definition of the word racism. what more do you want?

A broader understanding of the practice and concept as generally discussed by sociologists as opposed to just a basic definition of the word itself.

I know it's difficult for you to grasp, what with you not being as brilliant or handsome as myself, but I'm trying to help you along as best I can.

[TheMojoPin]

He spoke against it but was still a drug dealer for most of his life so since what the south was fighting for was States rights, not expressly slavery, it is a pretty fair comparison.

It doesn't really work. Contrary to it being said otherwise, the Civil War was fought over slavery (specifically the issue of new states being admitted as free or slave). The "X" symbol never at any point represented drugs or drug dealing. The stars and bars always represented states that were fighting to have more states admitted to the Union as slave states. It's entire existence is defined by an ideology supportive of slavery. The "X" has zilch to do wth drugs as a symbol.

[Aggie]

Like others have said, I'm not calling for the banning of the flag at all. I love this country and that you can stand up for whatever you believe in freely. That being said, in my experience the flag is used as a symbol of white pride. Not necessarily to the extreme of being a neo-nazi but at the very least a superior attitude.

I also have the black perspective on the matter and now I know how it's seen from their culture, particularly southern blacks. It's offensive and if you display it you should not be surprised at the reaction. I posted this after an emotional response to seeing one and I appreciate all of the opinions whether I agree with them or not.

[sailor]

A broader understanding of the practice and concept as generally discussed by sociologists as opposed to just a basic definition of the word itself.

I know it's difficult for you to grasp, what with you not being as brilliant or handsome as myself, but I'm trying to help you along as best I can.

ah, so the sociologists are misusing the word. got it.

[Crispy123]

It doesn't really work. Contrary to it being said otherwise, the Civil War was fought over slavery (specifically the issue of new states being admitted as free or slave). The "X" symbol never at any point represented drugs or drug dealing. The stars and bars always represented states that were fighting to have more states admitted to the Union as slave states. It's entire existence is defined by a ideology supportive of slavery. The "X" has zilch to do wth drugs as a symbol.

The X was him renaming himself in the nation of islam. He eventually left the nation of islam because he realized they were a bunch of thugs being run by a charlatan. My argument stands there but yeah the civil war was completely about slavery.

[TheMojoPin]

The X was him renaming himself in the nation of islam. He eventually left the nation of islam because he realized they were a bunch of thugs being run by a charlatan. My argument stands there but yeah the civil war was completely about slavery.

Right, but none of that has to with the "X" being a symbol of drugs or drug dealing. Someone assuming a kid is a drug dealer is not doing it because they're wearing a Malcolm X shirt.

[TheMojoPin]

ah, so the sociologists are misusing the word. got it.

Nope. The realities of life aren't restricted to dictionary definitions. We encountered this already in the terrorism discussion. If you go by a dictionary definition, anyone who instills terror or fear is technically a terrorist. The reality is that the context of that word is far more complex than that. It's the same thing here.

[Crispy123]

Right, but none of that has to with the "X" being a symbol of drugs or drug dealing. Someone assuming a kid is a drug dealer is not doing it because they're wearing a Malcolm X shirt.


I agree with that point but all Im saying is all confederate flag wavin mother fuckers are not neccesarily racist. And BTW there is nothing wrong with being proud of being white, or black, or yellow. In fact I recommend more people do it.

[sailor]

Nope. The realities of life aren't restricted to dictionary definitions. We encountered this already in the terrorism discussion. If you go by a dictionary definition, anyone who instills terror or fear is technically a terrorist. The reality is that the context of that word is far more complex than that. It's the same thing here.

so, the whole of humanity (english speaking) gives it one meaning and a small group decided they want it to mean something else? yes, for them it means that but not for everyone. that would be like me saying "the word 'credit' doesn't mean 'commendation or honor given for some action, quality, etc.' but rather it's just a right-sided journal entry." one groups jargon does not supersede general usage.

[TheMojoPin]

so, the whole of humanity (english speaking) gives it one meaning and a small group decided they want it to mean something else? yes, for them it means that but not for everyone. that would be like me saying "the word 'credit' doesn't mean 'commendation or honor given for some action, quality, etc.' but rather it's just a right-sided journal entry." one groups jargon does not supersede general usage.

The dictionary does not expound on the wider contexts and usages of words. It simply gives the most broad, basic definitions for easy use. I can't imagine you expect scientists to limit themselves simply by the definitions of a term in a dictionary. Why do you give such simplistic definitions designed for broad use more weight than the definitions of people actually versed and specialized in the study and analysis of that particular area?

[TheMojoPin]

I agree with that point but all Im saying is all confederate flag wavin mother fuckers are not neccesarily racist. And BTW there is nothing wrong with being proud of being white, or black, or yellow. In fact I recommend more people do it.

Fair enough, but it's not a stretch when they're proudly rocking the symbol of a bunch of states united around the idea of slavery and white supremacy.

[toolshed]

The perception of the Confederate flag through the eyes of someone born and bred in the Northeast is obviously going to be different than a Southerner. But to say that "90% of people flying/wearing it are racist" is ludicrous. At least where I grew up, having a flag on your car or truck was no different than having the surfer haircut or being in the chess club. I never identified with it, and always felt out of place with the "rednecks", but for them it reflected a group with which they identified. Are some of those people racist? I'm sure, just like I'm sure there are some anti-Semitic surfers and chess-playing pedophiles.

The racism argument divided down geographic lines always makes me laugh, because I have lived in the North and South, and the places that were the most OVERTLY racist were in the Northeast--Boston, New York, Philly, etc. Linking the flag to ones racist tendencies would be like saying every guy on Long Island that wears a wife-beater and a gold cross is a KKK member.

Stupid people are everywhere, and the South doesn't hold the patent on racism. Well, maybe Alabama.

[sr71blackbird]

My highschool was named Great Neck South and the school flag was the Confederate flag because of the "south" in the name. But when I was there, the black parents put pressure on the school to eliminate the flag. So it went away. I always had an affinity to the "rebel" natute that the flag represented to me. I never associated it with racism. But I can see why blacks would get offended by it. But like all things, in context, anything can be appropriate.

[Aggie]

Stupid people are everywhere, and the South doesn't hold the patent on racism. Well, maybe Mississippi.

Fixed.

[tanless1]

funny, i though is was the rebel flag. i was under the impression civil war was about much more than slavery( dont misconstrue this statement to mean anything other than the statement made) have we learned nothing from the simpsons ? when apu was interviewing for citizenship.... the interviewer stoped his encompasing answer and told apu to " just say slavery" . its probably a diservice to simplify it soo.
there are many reasons for that flag to fly...
and agan it is the tolerant that are intolerant.

[tanless1]

.... again, when i see that flag used as a curtain for the livng room, my first thought is "hayseed"....... to tolerance( for my spelling too)

[A.J.]

[SIZE="2"]http://www.topnews.in/files/NAZI.jpg

As a defeated country that crap is no longer allowed. Not even under the guise of "history" or "heritage". We have Jefferson Davis Highway in Arlington, VA. And there are statues of Confederate heroes in Richmond. Yet, I don't see a "Adolf Hitler Strasse" in Berlin or a statue of Hermann Goering in Nuremberg.

[JohnGacysCrawlSpace]

I have a Confederate flag on my bedroom wall.

[Gvac]

I have a Confederate flag on my bedroom wall.

Sweet!

Wanna go can shootin'?

[disneyspy]

Sweet!

Wanna go can shootin'?

no fun til after he scrapes up some roadkill for dinner,junior

[The Ogre]

I have a Confederate flag on my bedroom wall.

Wow, between that and the username you're really trying too hard.

[Contra]

Damn I need to start putting IMO in my post so people don't think I'm a trained and knowledged professional of everything, sorry about that everyone.

[Kublakhan61]

He spoke against it but was still a drug dealer for most of his life so since what the south was fighting for was States rights, not expressly slavery, it is a pretty fair comparison.

Wrong.
Malcolm X was not a drug dealer.
Malcolm X spoke out against drug use.
Malcolm Little was a drug dealer.
El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz was not.

[tanless1]

.... dont leave out his renouncement of nation of islam and refers to his time w/ them as " the mindless years "
.... just sayn.

[Mikemantis]

Yeah i am tired of these flags as well. I have no problem with people supporting a group, or flaunting there flag. Me as a Puerto Rican i have almost everything with my flag on it, but a lot of these (Rednecks, or country folk, not to be rude) but a lot of them even in high school wore these shirts. My problem is that the majority of the don't know or understand the true meaning of the flag, or its history. Some do not know what kind of country the confederate's wanted. What kind of government, etc. They just wear it to be cool and part of there southern history. It is annoying i live in FL and it is everywhere. If you are going to be behind something you should at least have the courtesy to know what the meaning are. Specially if there group can be hateful and have a negative place in history.

[The Happening]

I have no problem with people wanting to express themselves. The civil war was about more then just slavery(If people watched less Will Smith movies and read more, they might know that). I like people who are actually willing to express themselves outside of the PC culture we are living in today. People don't voice true feelins anymore. They voice PC feelings that they think/hope other people will pat them on the back for. People will voice their opposition to the confederate flag. But they won't say a peep about the very popular "my president is black" shirts being worn by black people today. The moral of the story? White people stink! White people only have balls enough for issues were balls don't come into play.

[tanless1]

to equate the rebel flag to the nazi flag ? allthough i understand your intention of dropping the " nazi " bomb .... you are incorrect and dishonest. youd of been much more accurate to compare the rebel flag w/ the british.

when tribes fought ; the conquered became property. native americans were no differnt than the indegeniuos of africa in this respect. to turn that property to cash and keep the numbers manigable ( keep the conquerd from conquering) they sold thier spoils of war as equipment. right or wrong the confederacy did not start that..... nor was it the reason that war was fought.

as for the frat stopping in front of the sorority ? have a feeling that had much more to do w/ hormones than intimidation... sombody had a crush...... or maybe im wrong.

[TheMojoPin]

I have no problem with people wanting to express themselves. The civil war was about more then just slavery(If people watched less Will Smith movies and read more, they might know that). I like people who are actually willing to express themselves outside of the PC culture we are living in today. People don't voice true feelins anymore. They voice PC feelings that they think/hope other people will pat them on the back for. People will voice their opposition to the confederate flag. But they won't say a peep about the very popular "my president is black" shirts being worn by black people today. The moral of the story? White people stink! White people only have balls enough for issues were balls don't come into play.

The Civil War wasn't about "more than slavery." It was specifically over the idea of more states entering the Union as slave states.

Will Smith movies have nothing to do with any of this.

There's zero comparison between the Stars 'n' Bars and a "my president is black" t-shirt.

You post failed tremendously hard.

[TheMojoPin]

to equate the rebel flag to the nazi flag ? allthough i understand your intention of dropping the " nazi " bomb .... you are incorrect and dishonest. youd of been much more accurate to compare the rebel flag w/ the british.

when tribes fought ; the conquered became property. native americans were no differnt than the indegeniuos of africa in this respect. to turn that property to cash and keep the numbers manigable ( keep the conquerd from conquering) they sold thier spoils of war as equipment. right or wrong the confederacy did not start that..... nor was it the reason that war was fought.

as for the frat stopping in front of the sorority ? have a feeling that had much more to do w/ hormones than intimidation... sombody had a crush...... or maybe im wrong.

The Union Jack itself was not created under the specific context of subjegating or enslaving or worse. The Stars 'n' Bars were specifically created as the representative banner of a confederacy created because not enough new states were being admitted to the Union as slave states.

[TripleSkeet]

Like I said, it's been typically used/understood incorrectly over the years.

Discrimination is only one type of racism, though as a whole it is not defined solely by racial motivations. Non-racial discrimination is very common.

The pages you keep citing are basically describing being racially predjudiced, but there's a huge difference between that and actually being racist. The most simple way to put it is as such: predjudice + power = racism. Without the power someone is just racially predjudiced.

See I didnt look at it exactly that way.

I always defined a racist as someone that hates a certain group of people SOLELY because of their race. Whether they be black, hispanic, asian, whatever. And there are plenty of people out there in this world.

Prejudice is when you come to form an opion of someone you do not know, based soley on what you have seen from others like them in the past.

Perfect example, I have worked in the bar/restaurant business for 15 years. Most of the time when I waited on a black person and they were going to order an appetizer I assumed it would be buffalo wings. It was definitely prejudiced, because in my experience90% of the time thats what they would order. But I dont think that makes me a racist because regardless of that I felt no ill will towards them, the fact they were black didnt bother me at all.

[cougarjake13]

Yeah i am tired of these flags as well. I have no problem with people supporting a group, or flaunting there flag. Me as a Puerto Rican i have almost everything with my flag on it, but a lot of these (Rednecks, or country folk, not to be rude) but a lot of them even in high school wore these shirts. My problem is that the majority of the don't know or understand the true meaning of the flag, or its history. Some do not know what kind of country the confederate's wanted. What kind of government, etc. They just wear it to be cool and part of there southern history. It is annoying i live in FL and it is everywhere. If you are going to be behind something you should at least have the courtesy to know what the meaning are. Specially if there group can be hateful and have a negative place in history.



most of them that have the flags honestly view it as southern pride and dont care or dont know about the civil war, slavery, etc.

[tanless1]

and to compare it to the eugeinics motivated social fascists of the democratic nazi party?
in this case the targets were interned and exterminated to reduce the interuption of the desired master blood line blah blah more kook stuff..... far cry from the confederates.

again , im am by no means longing for the days of yore.

[TheMojoPin]

See I didnt look at it exactly that way.

I always defined a racist as someone that hates a certain group of people SOLELY because of their race. Whether they be black, hispanic, asian, whatever. And there are plenty of people out there in this world.

Prejudice is when you come to form an opion of someone you do not know, based soley on what you have seen from others like them in the past.

Perfect example, I have worked in the bar/restaurant business for 15 years. Most of the time when I waited on a black person and they were going to order an appetizer I assumed it would be buffalo wings. It was definitely prejudiced, because in my experience90% of the time thats what they would order. But I dont think that makes me a racist because regardless of that I felt no ill will towards them, the fact they were black didnt bother me at all.

So you don't see a difference between someone who hates a certain race but never actually vocalizes it to people of that race or lets that hatred influence his dealings with that race and someone who does?

Let's say one guy is in charge of hiring and promotions and such at his company. In his mind and on his own time he can't stand black people, but when it comes to the job he doesn't let that come in. If a worker or applicant is black and best for the job, he gives it to them.

Now another guy has the same job, also can't stand black people, and he lets his predjudices dictate his position of power. On top of that, he puts himself in a social position of power by hurling slurs and racial insults at blacks.

Both guys hate black people, but only one actually vocalizes it to blacks or lets his hatred dictate his dealings with them.

Isn't one different than the other?

[tanless1]

mo, is that you ? welcome to the convo.

[tanless1]

i just dont think there are that many people that hate others for the color of their skin.
iran on the other hand ....racist motha's.
what i do take issue w/ are certian groups getting special protections under the law. we are all equal under the law..... unless your a man that sucks cock, then your specialer, orrrr you tan better than others, again you are afforded special protections.
equal is equal.

[britneypablo]

<font color="deeppink"> i was headed to the pool but i cant find my classy corona bikini....i suppose ill just wear my confederate flag swim suit

[epo]

i just dont think there are that many people that hate others for the color of their skin.
iran on the other hand ....racist motha's.
what i do take issue w/ are certian groups getting special protections under the law. we are all equal under the law..... unless your a man that sucks cock, then your specialer, orrrr you tan better than others, again you are afforded special protections.
equal is equal.

Where are you from? ..........Ooooooohhhhhhh

[tanless1]

same place you are epo; let me apologize for getting of track.

[The Happening]

The Civil War wasn't about "more than slavery." It was specifically over the idea of more states entering the Union as slave states.

Will Smith movies have nothing to do with any of this.

There's zero comparison between the Stars 'n' Bars and a "my president is black" t-shirt.

You post failed tremendously hard. Let me help you out my "fails to understand" friend. Most of the people who fly the conderate flag, do so as some sort of southern pride, and to distinguish themselves against northerners in a very small way. Most DON'T do it because they think slavery should still exist, or to be assholes. Is it kinda silly? Maybe. But so are people who still watch wrestling over the age of 16. The confederate flag has basically become the souths version of an "I Love New York" T-shirt. ..... The differences between the economy's in the North and South, states rights, and simple regional bias were also reasons for the civil war. Was slavery the theme? Sure. But human compassion in the north may have been sped up by simple advances in technology(Agricultural machinery), something the south didn't have for their cotton fields. ..... The Will Smith movie comment had nothing to do with this, you're right. Thanks for taking a break from killing kittens to point that out! ..... Yea, nobody was comparing the Obama t-shirt to the Stars n Bars. It was brought up to make a seperate point. Way to pick that up! Gotta love people who are so lost, that they translate everything as a comparison. ..... Finally, anyone who says "you post failed tremendously hard" is only doing so because they can't digest what's being said. So in an angry typing fashion they lash out as if they gave some sort of triumphant retort. I feel bad for you. You have disgraced your entire family today. I also feel bad that to this day you still think some vagina's are horizontal. They are all vertical man, they are vertical!

[TheMojoPin]

Let me help you out my "fails to understand" friend. Most of the people who fly the conderate flag, do so as some sort of southern pride, and to distinguish themselves against northerners in a very small way. Most DON'T do it because they think slavery should still exist, or to be assholes. Is it kinda silly? Maybe. But so are people who still watch wrestling over the age of 16. The confederate flag has basically become the souths version of an "I Love New York" T-shirt.

No amount of explaining it away erases what that flag was created for. It's not a version of anything else because there's no other national symbol in our country with the same context. Yes, I understand how it has taken on additional contexts over the years, but it can never erase its origins.

The differences between the economy's in the North and South, states rights, and simple regional bias were also reasons for the civil war. Was slavery the theme? Sure. But human compassion in the north may have been sped up by simple advances in technology(Agricultural machinery), something the south didn't have for their cotton fields. ..... The Will Smith movie comment had nothing to do with this, you're right. Thanks for taking a break from killing kittens to point that out! .....

It was about slavery.

The "states rights" at stake were the "rights" to admit more slave states to the Union. All of the "states rights" contested at the time revolved around slavery. Anything else is an overcomplication to a very clear historical track as to why this country went to war with itself. It wasn't a crusade of good vs. evil...it was politics. Slave states had a political advantage since they could count 3/5's of their total slave population towards the number of representatives they got. Less slave states meant less political clout in the face of the changing United States social and economic scene.

Yea, nobody was comparing the Obama t-shirt to the Stars n Bars. It was brought up to make a seperate point. Way to pick that up! Gotta love people who are so lost, that they translate everything as a comparison. ..... Finally, anyone who says "you post failed tremendously hard" is only doing so because they can't digest what's being said. So in an angry typing fashion they lash out as if they gave some sort of triumphant retort. I feel bad for you. You have disgraced your entire family today. I also feel bad that to this day you still think some vagina's are horizontal. They are all vertical man, they are vertical!

Nobody lashed out. You dumped a load of stream of consciousness bullshit and got called out on it.

[The Happening]

Nobody lashed out. You dumped a load of stream of consciousness bullshit and got called out on it. Still not exactly getting it are you? It's ok. You stick to keeping the streets safe by "calling people on stuff". I'll stick to making sense.

[TripleSkeet]

So you don't see a difference between someone who hates a certain race but never actually vocalizes it to people of that race or lets that hatred influence his dealings with that race and someone who does?

Let's say one guy is in charge of hiring and promotions and such at his company. In his mind and on his own time he can't stand black people, but when it comes to the job he doesn't let that come in. If a worker or applicant is black and best for the job, he gives it to them.

Now another guy has the same job, also can't stand black people, and he lets his predjudices dictate his position of power. On top of that, he puts himself in a social position of power by hurling slurs and racial insults at blacks.

Both guys hate black people, but only one actually vocalizes it to blacks or lets his hatred dictate his dealings with them.

Isn't one different than the other?

Well to be honest, if both of those guys hate black people simply because they are black, then I would say they are both racist. The first guy just happens to have sense of fairness thats stronger then his racism, where the 2nd guy doesnt.

I understand what you mean that using your power to excercise racism characterizes someone as a racist, I just meant I dont think that would be the be all end all.

[TheMojoPin]

Well to be honest, if both of those guys hate black people simply because they are black, then I would say they are both racist. The first guy just happens to have sense of fairness thats stronger then his racism, where the 2nd guy doesnt.

I understand what you mean that using your power to excercise racism characterizes someone as a racist, I just meant I dont think that would be the be all end all.

Yeah, I can see that. The line is pretty easily blurred.

[The Happening]

Racism is an "action" not an ideal. If you hate a different race, but still treat them fairly in everyday life, then you aren't really a racist. But if you act unkindly towards someone just because they are a different race, that's racism. John Johnson might have sexual fantasies about raping the women he works with. But until he acts on them, he's NOT a rapist.

[TheMojoPin]

Still not exactly getting it are you? It's ok. You stick to keeping the streets safe by "calling people on stuff". I'll stick to making sense.

A big block of near-gibberish and non-sequiturs is about as far from making sense as one can get.

[TheMojoPin]

Racism is an "action" not an ideal. If you hate a different race, but still treat them fairly in everyday life, then you aren't really a racist. But if you act unkindly towards someone just because they are a different race, that's racism. John Johnson might have sexual fantasies about raping the women he works with. But until he acts on them, he's NOT a rapist.

That's essentially what I've been saying, though I would go further and say that true racism requires some kind of power dynamic.

[Contra]

People in the north that bare the flag do it for southern pride? I'm confused.

[tanless1]

naw dont worry . thats Mo's SOP label, minimize, and dismiss..... he's very emotional and not comfortable w/ discussion Mo's more concerned w/ winning than understanding anothers point of view.
forgets we are all in this together. i feel he' be a very good mormon or even jehovah's witness.

[TheMojoPin]

You are an odd, odd person. I love how my attempts to have prolonged, unemotional political debates and discussions somehow make you think I DON'T want discussion and that I'm emotional. Please, feel free to point out anywhere where I shut down discussions or flip out over a political debate. Go ahead.

[tanless1]

that true racism requires some kind of power dynamic.
thats what pharakon has been saying for years. that its impossible for blacks to be racists .... and we all know how right he is.

[tanless1]

well lets go to the " where do you stand thread" palistine israel. or really any thread where you converse w/ me. funny.... i dont think weve ever agreed on anything.

[TheMojoPin]

thats what pharakon has been saying for years. that its impossible for blacks to be racists .... and we all know how right he is.

To a degree I can see how that thinking actually is legit. The context, social and historical, simply does not exist for blacks vs. whites as it does with whites vs. blacks. Those are two vastly different power dynamics.

That does not, however, let anyone off the hook. Just because someone arguably can't be a racist doesn't mean they still can't be a predjudiced, hateful person.

[tanless1]

dissmiss - shut down 2 differnt words to reach the same objective.

[The Happening]

thats what pharakon has been saying for years. that its impossible for blacks to be racists .... and we all know how right he is.
The media/society seems to believe him.

[TheMojoPin]

well lets go to the " where do you stand thread" palistine israel. or really any thread where you converse w/ me. funny.... i dont think weve ever agreed on anything.

So what? Why do we ever have to agree? That's the beauty of political opinions.

A debate isn't a bad thing. If you stand by your ideologies and theories and can back them up you should welcome the challenge. I have no problem doing that and I go out of my way to not let myself get heated over it and to extend those debates/discussions for as long as the other person wants to go.

[The Happening]

A big block of near-gibberish and non-sequiturs is about as far from making sense as one can get.
You aren't making many good points. But you are from Chicago, and a fellow Cubs fan, so i'll cut you some slack.

[tanless1]

well lets look at the crusades- that wasnt white people being duche's - that was a response to living under the thumb of islam all those years..... and they are still bitter- but precrusade wld be a reasonable to look.

[tanless1]

you are a precious heart mo'

[tanless1]

The media/society seems to believe him.

do you believe him ? you and me, we are scociety. media attempts to tell us we arent , i think they are wrong.

[The Happening]

do you believe him ? you and me, we are scociety. media attempts to tell us we arent , i think they are wrong.
I meant society as a majority seems to give black people a pass with being racist. As for me, I believe that black people are as fairly able to be racist as white people. This is painted as a country where it's mainly white people who are racist. But for people who get out in the everyday world and mix it up, they see a much different picture. I think the majority of white people are fair people who at the very least don't act on any racist beliefs.

[Contra]

Awww I feel the love in here

[sailor]

to equate the rebel flag to the nazi flag ? allthough i understand your intention of dropping the " nazi " bomb .... you are incorrect and dishonest. youd of been much more accurate to compare the rebel flag w/ the british.

i assume you meant me, but i didn't compare the two in any way other that as flags of losing sides that people have "pride" in for one reason or other. i believe it was correct and honest.

[hanso]

How about the black fist symbol?



Oh,.. wait nevermind.

[led37zep]

How about the black fist symbol?



Oh,.. wait nevermind.

Howard Stern invented that.

[hanso]

Howard Stern invented that.

HOO HOO Tell 'em Fred... Robin!