Missing French Jet off of Brazil

[yojimbo7248]

sad breaking news about a French airline with 228 passengers missing off of the coast of Brazil. We will know about the story soon but it doesn't look good for the fate of those people on the plane.

[CountryBob]

In this age of technology it floors me that we dont have radar capabilities in the vast majority of the oceans. Why no satellite radar? I dont buy it - I bet we can track a missle over the ocean - but no airplanes? There could be survivors but no one knows where to look.

[epo]

Air France crash: 'No hope' of survivors (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/01/air-france-crash-a330-brazil)

An Air France plane bound for Paris that disappeared with 228 people on board today has almost certainly crashed with no survivors, according to airline and government officials.

Air France said the plane sent a message at 3.14am British time reporting an electrical short-circuit after it had flown through a stormy area with strong turbulence, the Reuters news agency has reported.

Brazilian air force planes are searching the Atlantic for flight AF447, an Airbus A330-200 that left Rio de Janeiro at 7pm Brazilian time (11pm BST) yesterday. It had been expected in Paris at 11.15am.

The Brazilian air force told the Associated Press that a search was under way near the island of Fernando de Noronha.

An Air France source was quoted as saying that there was "no hope" for those on board.

Damn.

[sink]

In this age of technology it floors me that we dont have radar capabilities in the vast majority of the oceans. Why no satellite radar? I dont buy it - I bet we can track a missle over the ocean - but no airplanes? There could be survivors but no one knows where to look.

The US military knows exactly where it went, whether or not it is commercially available, no idea. You would think so given it is an very old technology and has a constant transmitter to follow.

[styckx]

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fgw-air-france2-2009jun02,0,4560967.story




MISSING PLANE: A Brazilian relative of a passenger aboard Air France Flight AF447 speaks on his phone as he tries to get information at Rio de Janeiro's international airport.
The plane hit turbulence and lost contact. It was traveling from Rio to Paris with 228 people aboard.
Associated Press
6:49 AM PDT, June 1, 2009

SAO PAULO, Brazil — A missing Air France jet carrying 228 people from Rio de Janeiro to Paris ran into lightning and strong thunderstorms over the Atlantic Ocean, officials said today. Brazil began a search mission off its northeastern coast.

Chief Air France spokesman Francois Brousse said "it is possible" that the plane was hit by lightning.
Air France Flight 447, an Airbus A330, left Rio on Sunday at 7 p.m. local time (2200 GMT, 6 p.m. EDT) with 216 passengers and 12 crew members on board, company spokeswoman Brigitte Barrand.

About four hours later, the plane sent an automatic signal indicating electrical problems while going through strong turbulence, Air France said.

The plane "crossed through a thunderous zone with strong turbulence" at 0200 GMT today (10 p.m. EDT Sunday). An automatic message was received fourteen minutes later "signaling electrical circuit malfunction."

Brazil's Air Force said the last contact it had with the Air France jet was at 0136 GMT (9:30 p.m. EDT Sunday), but did not say where the plane was at that time.
Brazil's air force was searching near the archipelago of Fernando de Noronha, about 300 kilometers (180 miles) northeast of the coastal city of Natal, a spokesman said, speaking on condition of anonymity in keeping with department policy.
The region is about 1,500 miles northeast of Rio.
The head of investigation and accident prevention for Brazil's Civil Aeronautics Agency, Douglas Ferreira Machado, told Brazil's Globo TV that he believes the plane must have left Brazilian waters and could have been near the coast of Africa by the time contact was lost, based on the speed it was traveling.
"It's going to take a long time to carry out this search," he said. "It could be a long, sad story. The black box will be at the bottom of the sea."
Air France-KLM CEO Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, at a news conference at Charles de Gaulle Airport north of Paris, said the pilot had 11,000 hours of flying experience, including 1,700 hours flying this aircraft. No name was released.
Aviation experts said the risk the plane was brought down by lightning was slim.
"Lightning issues have been considered since the beginning of aviation. They were far more prevalent when aircraft operated at low altitudes. They are less common now since it's easier to avoid thunderstorms," said Bill Voss, president and CEO of Flight Safety Foundation, Alexandria, Va.
He said planes have specific measures built in to help dissipate electricity along the aircraft's skin.
"I cannot recall in recent history any examples of aircraft being brought down by lightning," he told The Associated Press.
Experts said it was clear the plane was not in the air any longer, due to the amount of fuel it would have been carrying.
"The conclusion to be drawn is that something catastrophic happened on board that has caused this airplane to ditch in a controlled or an uncontrolled fashion," Jane's Aviation analyst Chris Yates told The Associated Press.
"I would suggest that potentially it went down very quickly and so quickly that the pilot on board didn't have a chance to make that emergency call," Yates said, adding that the possibilities ranged from mechanical failure to terrorism.
Families who arrived to meet passengers on board were cordoned off, away from reporters, at a special Air France information center at the Charles de Gaulle airport. That center said 60 French citizens were on the plane. Italy said at least three passengers were Italian.
"Air France shares the emotion and worry of the families concerned," Barrand said.
The flight was supposed to arrive in Paris at 0915 GMT (5:15 a.m. EDT), according to the airport.
Airbus said it was cooperating with transport authorities and Air France, but would not further comment until more details emerged.
"Our thoughts are with the passengers and with the families of the passengers," said Airbus spokeswoman Maggie Bergsma.
The Airbus A330-200 is a twin-engine, long-haul, medium-capacity passenger jet that is 58.8 meters (190 feet) long. It is a shortened version of the standard A330, and can hold up to 253 passengers. It first went into service in 1998 and there are 341 in use worldwide today. It can fly up to 7,760 miles (12,500 kilometers).
French President Nicolas Sarkozy expressed his "extreme worry" and planned to visit the Charles de Gaulle airport later today.

[styckx]

I looked I swear I looked!

[sr71blackbird]

This is not going to be good. They were well over the Atlantic. It would be a miricle if anyone survived. I just hope it wasn't terroists and no one suffered.

[underdog]

I just hope it wasn't terroists and no one suffered.

I keep seeing this places.

Can someone tell me what the difference would be whether these people died of a malfunction, mother nature, or a terrorist attack?

[keithy_19]

Blake should have never left Jawbreaker...

[badmonkey]

I keep seeing this places.

Can someone tell me what the difference would be whether these people died of a malfunction, mother nature, or a terrorist attack?

murder

[underdog]

murder

But they're still all dead. And even if it were terrorism, it is still more likely to happen any other way. Yet, people will still freak out over the terrorism angle more.

[TheMojoPin]

Blake should have never left Jawbreaker...

Hahahahahahahaaaaah!

You beat me to it!

Nicely done.

[monkfish]

Blake should have never left Jawbreaker...

He was in Jets to France? :)

Well done!

[KC2OSO]

But they're still all dead. And even if it were terrorism, it is still more likely to happen any other way. Yet, people will still freak out over the terrorism angle more.
Ronnie style 'wow'...:blink:

[foodcourtdruide]

But they're still all dead. And even if it were terrorism, it is still more likely to happen any other way. Yet, people will still freak out over the terrorism angle more.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it is a selfish thing? People are happy terrorism is not involved because it makes them feel safer?


If you were on the plane or a family member, what would it matter?

[underdog]

Ronnie style 'wow'...:blink:

I'm serious. I do not understand the difference. If I had a parent killed by lightning strike or by terrorism, I would probably feel exactly the same.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it is a selfish thing? People are happy terrorism is not involved because it makes them feel safer?

Which is just insane, because they're both as random.

If you were on the plane or a family member, what would it matter?

Exactly.

[KC2OSO]

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it is a selfish thing? People are happy terrorism is not involved because it makes them feel safer?


If you were on the plane or a family member, what would it matter?
I've written three replies to your posts and deleted all three.

Alright gimme a minute..I have to take a piss.

[foodcourtdruide]

I've written three replies to your posts and deleted all three.

A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.

I hope they find those people.

I hope they find them too. it would be the best thing ever if they are on some island with plenty of food and water waiting to get saved.

[TooLowBrow]

this sounds like what happened oceanic 815

[PapaBear]

If I was on that plane when it went down, I'd oui my pants.

[Judge Smails]

I keep seeing this places.

Can someone tell me what the difference would be whether these people died of a malfunction, mother nature, or a terrorist attack?

If a loved were killed in a car crash would you feel any different if it were a freak accident or if it was caused by a drunk driver?

[PapaBear]

If a loved were killed in a car crash would you feel any different if it were a freak accident or if it was caused by a drunk driver?
Absolutely. I'd want to kill the drunk driver.

[foodcourtdruide]

If a loved were killed in a car crash would you feel any different if it were a freak accident or if it was caused by a drunk driver?

I wouldn't feel the same, but I wouldn't feel better or worse. The end result is that person is dead.

[foodcourtdruide]

Absolutely. I'd want to kill the drunk driver.

But would that feeling of anger make the loss of the loved one better or worse?

[PapaBear]

But would that feeling of anger make the loss of the loved one better or worse?
Yes.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yes.

Which?

[PapaBear]

Oops. Worse.

[foodcourtdruide]

Oops. Worse.

But in the end, wouldn't that anger inevitably be directed somewhere anyway?


Sorry, don't mean to get so off topic in this thread.

[KC2OSO]

I'm sorry,
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[KC2OSO]

LOVE YOUR FELLOW MAN...LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR
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[PapaBear]

A 21 minute double post?:ohmy:

[KC2OSO]

took me a while...watch the video

[KC2OSO]

A 21 minute double post?:ohmy:

meantime 228 passengers missing off of the coast of Brazil.

[foodcourtdruide]

took me a while...watch the video

Can't. Am on my blackberry.

[KC2OSO]

peace

[underdog]

If a loved were killed in a car crash would you feel any different if it were a freak accident or if it was caused by a drunk driver?

I guess I would sort of feel different.

But that only applies to this situation to the family of the people lost. It's the general public who will freak out over terrorism if it happened, even though its still more likely to happen any other way.

[Furtherman]

Debris may have been spotted. The ABC News Ticker in Times Square reporting that the pilot reported seeing "orange lights" before losing contact.

[WampusCrandle]

Debris may have been spotted. The ABC News Ticker in Times Square reporting that the pilot reported seeing "orange lights" before losing contact.

Brazil confirms the plane crashed (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane)

[furie]

Bomb Threat against AF day before the disappearance (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:rogFhX-NRfYJ:momento24.com/en/2009/05/27/bomb-threat-on-air-france-flight/+Ezeiza+air+france+bomb+threat&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera)

[angrymissy]

Bomb Threat against AF day before the disappearance (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:rogFhX-NRfYJ:momento24.com/en/2009/05/27/bomb-threat-on-air-france-flight/+Ezeiza+air+france+bomb+threat&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera)

Wow. I heard on the news this AM that it's going to be a bitch to retrieve the black boxes because they're likely miles underwater.

[furie]

Air France: False bomb threat in Buenos Aires (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98J980O1&show_article=1)

[TripleSkeet]

Now they are saying a bad storm took the plane down. I dont get it. Whenever I fly the plane is above the clouds except for takeoff and landing. How does it get caught in a storm?

[KingGeno]

Now they are saying a bad storm took the plane down. I dont get it. Whenever I fly the plane is above the clouds except for takeoff and landing. How does it get caught in a storm?

They got into HIGH Cumulonimbus Clouds that were completely pitch black with 100MPH updrafts. Clouds can be very high.

Reading the accounts of the last 14 minutes of this flight in the NY Post (http://www.nypost.com/seven/06042009/news/worldnews/jets_horrifying_final_14_minutes_172538.htm) made me queezy......

These are the grim facts of the 14 minutes of death:
At 11 p.m. (10 p.m. EDT), pilot Marc Dubois sent a manual signal saying he was flying through an area of "CBs" -- black, electrically charged cumulonimbus clouds that carry violent winds and lightning.



Satellite data show that the thunderheads -- towering up to 50,000 feet -- were sending 100 mph updrafts into the jet's flight path. "Such an updraft would lead to severe turbulence for any aircraft," AccuWeather said. "In addition, the storms were towering up to 50,000 feet and would have been producing lightning. The Air France plane would have encountered these stormy conditions, which could have resulted in either some structural failure or electrical failure."


At 11:10 p.m., a cascade of horrific problems began.
Automatic messages relayed by the jetliner indicate the autopilot had disengaged, suggesting Dubois and his two co-pilots were trying to thread their way through the dangerous clouds manually.
A key computer system had switched to alternative power and controls needed to keep the plane stable had been damaged.
An alarm sounded, indicating the deterioration of flight systems.


At 11:13 p.m., more automatic messages reported the failure of systems to monitor air speed, altitude and direction. Control of the main flight computer and wing spoilers also failed.


The last automatic message, at 11:14 p.m., indicated complete electrical failure and a massive loss of cabin pressure -- catastrophic events, indicating that the plane was breaking apart and plunging toward the ocean.


can you even fathom what that would be like...........................

[TheMojoPin]

can you even fathom what that would be like...........................

You'd likely black out pretty quickly.

[KingGeno]

You'd likely black out pretty quickly.

Yea. That and I wonder if they were in the cloud, and if the plane really did get hit by lightning, if people were completely knocked out from all the static electricity and shock from falling through thunder/lightning clouds.

[topless_mike]

wonder if the updraft caused either a failure in lift or stalled the engines.

think about it. water rushing to the surface actually pulls things down. so, if the winds were that turbulent going up, it may have literally just sucked the plane down with such force perhaps ripping the wings/tail off? either way, that kind of cabin pressure loss, most folk were probably out of it before umm *splash*

[Jujubees2]

wonder if the updraft caused either a failure in lift or stalled the engines.

think about it. water rushing to the surface actually pulls things down. so, if the winds were that turbulent going up, it may have literally just sucked the plane down with such force perhaps ripping the wings/tail off? either way, that kind of cabin pressure loss, most folk were probably out of it before umm *splash*

I heard a retired pilot say that in a perfect storm like this plane may have flown it would exceed the limits of the plane and the wings would snap off.

[styckx]

So who is the ATC responsible for sending a passenger jet directly into storm cells towering 50,000 feet?

[Suspect Chin]

Turns out they didn't find the plane after all:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-air-crash6-2009jun06,0,657829.story

[Furtherman]

Missed Air France Flight, Only to Die in Car Crash (http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/us_world/NATL-Woman-Who-Missed-Flight-447-Killed-in-Car-Crash.html)

A woman who dodged death when she and her husband narrowly missed Air France Flight 447 before it plunged into the Atlantic Ocean, killing all 228 aboard, was killed in a car accident just over a week later.

How very Final Destination-ish.

[ChrisTheCop]

I prefer to call it "course correction", as in LOST.

[topless_mike]

Missed Air France Flight, Only to Die in Car Crash (http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/us_world/NATL-Woman-Who-Missed-Flight-447-Killed-in-Car-Crash.html)



How very Final Destination-ish.

the only logical thing i can think is.


"aint that some shit"

[Misteriosa]

Bodies found 2 years after French air crash, minister says (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/04/04/france.jet.wreckage/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1)

- The bodies will be brought to the surface and identified, Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet says

- The plane went down en route from Brazil to France in 2009

- Most of the bodies have never been found

- The cause of the crash remains unknown

[Furtherman]

Surprising they found anything. Those bodies must be stuck in the cabin, maybe even sealed off from the sea, as by now they would have been deteriorated or even eaten.

[SonOfSmeagol]

I heard that they just found the flight data and cockpit recorders with big shark-like chunks bitten out of them. bummer!