Army Recruiters shot in Little Rock

[badmonkey]

Two Army Recruiters Shot, One Dead in Little Rock, AR (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/02/arkansas.recruiter.shooting/?iref=mpstoryview)
The soldiers were part of a recruiting program called "hometown recruiting assistance," said Lt. Col. Thomas F. Artis, commander of the Oklahoma recruiting battalion that oversees the Little Rock Army-Navy recruiting center.

Under the program, soldiers tell their stories to potential recruits. It's a volunteer position taken while soldiers are visiting or based back in their home region, Artis said.
Before the not guilty plea, authorities said Bledsoe waived his Miranda rights Monday and gave a video statement indicating that there were "political and religious" motives in the shooting.

He "stated that he was a practicing Muslim, that he was mad at the U.S. military because of what it had done to Muslims in the past," homicide detective Tommy Hudson said in a police report.

Police recovered three guns from the vehicle: an SKS semi-automatic rifle, a .22-caliber rifle and a .380-caliber automatic pistol, Thomas said. No explosives were found.

This happened yesterday. Since nobody else mentioned it, I figured I would.

[ChrisTheCop]

Awful.

[HBox]

I hadn't heard about this. That sounds like a profoundly disturbed individual.

[badmonkey]

That sounds like a profoundly disturbed individual.

That is an extremely interesting statement when you consider the thread about the abortion doctor being murdered. Here we have a guy who says that he shot army recruiters for religious reasons. Over there we have a guy who shot an abortion doctor for what we (me included) assume are religious reasons but we don't have a statement from the suspect yet. They are both guilty of the same type of crime but they are treated differently based on their religion of choice. The guy who shot the abortion doctor is a Christian and treated as proof that this is how Christians think, while the guy who shot the army recruiters is a disturbed individual not a Muslim Extremist. They're both fucking wackjobs who are wrong about the teachings of their religions and have used their religions as an excuse to end a life.

I didn't mean to single out or attack HBox for his statement or his opinion here. It's just something I found interesting and his statement was a good example of it.

[ChrisTheCop]

Not sure anyone is saying the guy who murdered the doctor is completely sane.

[foodcourtdruide]

That is an extremely interesting statement when you consider the thread about the abortion doctor being murdered. Here we have a guy who says that he shot army recruiters for religious reasons. Over there we have a guy who shot an abortion doctor for what we (me included) assume are religious reasons but we don't have a statement from the suspect yet. They are both guilty of the same type of crime but they are treated differently based on their religion of choice. The guy who shot the abortion doctor is a Christian and treated as proof that this is how Christians think, while the guy who shot the army recruiters is a disturbed individual not a Muslim Extremist. They're both fucking wackjobs who are wrong about the teachings of their religions and have used their religions as an excuse to end a life.

I didn't mean to single out or attack HBox for his statement or his opinion here. It's just something I found interesting and his statement was a good example of it.

BM, they are both certainly whack jobs. Is your point that the media is more comfortable highlighting Christian extremists than Muslim extremists? If so, why do you think that is?

I do find it odd that this story has gotten such little news coverage. It's really awful.

[foodcourtdruide]

Not sure anyone is saying the guy who murdered the doctor is completely sane.

Nor indicative of Christian thought, though I think I see where BM is going.

[Coach]

Well..both were part of religious Extremist groups...supposedly this guy was on the terrorist watch/wanted list..at least as they reported last night on cbs radio.

[badmonkey]

Not sure anyone is saying the guy who murdered the doctor is completely sane.

Let me try again a little more direct. I'm starting to think that sometimes I may be using too many words to get a point accross and I ends up being more confusing instead of clear.

Abortion doc shooter is part of a disturbed group.
In other words Because he was a Christian who shot an abortion doctor that means, Christians are all religious wackos that think its ok to murder abortion doctors.

Army Recruiter shooter is a disturbed individual.

I think they're both individuals and neither are representative of the religious groups with which they associate themselves.

[Coach]

Let me try again a little more direct. I'm starting to think that sometimes I may be using too many words to get a point accross and I ends up being more confusing instead of clear.

Abortion doc shooter is part of a disturbed group.
In other words Because he was a Christian who shot an abortion doctor that means, Christians are all religious wackos that think its ok to murder abortion doctors.

Army Recruiter shooter is a disturbed individual.

I think they're both individuals and neither are representative of the religious groups with which they associate themselves.

I dunno..Operation Rescue/Operation Save America is full of nuts.

[angrymissy]

That is an extremely interesting statement when you consider the thread about the abortion doctor being murdered. Here we have a guy who says that he shot army recruiters for religious reasons. Over there we have a guy who shot an abortion doctor for what we (me included) assume are religious reasons but we don't have a statement from the suspect yet. They are both guilty of the same type of crime but they are treated differently based on their religion of choice. The guy who shot the abortion doctor is a Christian and treated as proof that this is how Christians think, while the guy who shot the army recruiters is a disturbed individual not a Muslim Extremist. They're both fucking wackjobs who are wrong about the teachings of their religions and have used their religions as an excuse to end a life.

I didn't mean to single out or attack HBox for his statement or his opinion here. It's just something I found interesting and his statement was a good example of it.

I think they're both fringe examples of their respective religions.

[foodcourtdruide]

Let me try again a little more direct. I'm starting to think that sometimes I may be using too many words to get a point accross and I ends up being more confusing instead of clear.

Abortion doc shooter is part of a disturbed group.
In other words Because he was a Christian who shot an abortion doctor that means, Christians are all religious wackos that think its ok to murder abortion doctors.

Army Recruiter shooter is a disturbed individual.

I think they're both individuals and neither are representative of the religious groups with which they associate themselves.

I don't think Christians are taking heat for the abortion doctor killer, I think the specific group that he belonged to is taking heat.

Also, to counter your argument the media had no problem repeatedly mentioning that the idiots in Westchester were Muslim converts much like this guy. It was in almost every article I read on it.

That's why I'm confused about this story not getting more press.

[KatPw]

If you commit an act of violence in the name of your religion, your a religious extremist. Just disgusting.

[ChrisTheCop]

If you commit an act of violence in the name of your religion, your a religious extremist. Just disgusting.

agreed.

http://www.boritz.com/harrison/briss/briss5.jpg

[badmonkey]

I dunno..Operation Rescue/Operation Save America is full of nuts.

I don't doubt it, but the group I was referring to was Christians.

[angrymissy]

I don't doubt it, but the group I was referring to was Christians.

Operation Rescue/Operation Save America tout themselves as Christian groups.

[badmonkey]

I don't think Christians are taking heat for the abortion doctor killer, I think the specific group that he belonged to is taking heat.

Also, to counter your argument the media had no problem repeatedly mentioning that the idiots in Westchester were Muslim converts much like this guy. It was in almost every article I read on it.

That's why I'm confused about this story not getting more press.

I was talking more about the everyday people talking about the incidents on message boards, chatrooms, hangouts, around water coolers and break rooms, etc. In those places, Christians are taking plenty of heat.

I don't understand why the story isn't getting more press either. If it did, muslims would probably be taking the same kind of heat too.

The more I think about it, the more it probably depends on the message board, crowd, etc. I noticed it here because this is what I read most and it really stood out for me immediately. I guess on a more conservative board or a christian board, there's probably plenty of "see what the muslims do?!?!?!"

Oh well, wonder what kinda music and videogames these guys played. Maybe there's something there.... :wallbash:

[angrymissy]

I was talking more about the everyday people talking about the incidents on message boards, chatrooms, hangouts, around water coolers and break rooms, etc. In those places, Christians are taking plenty of heat.

I don't understand why the story isn't getting more press either. If it did, muslims would probably be taking the same kind of heat too.

The more I think about it, the more it probably depends on the message board, crowd, etc. I noticed it here because this is what I read most and it really stood out for me immediately. I guess on a more conservative board or a christian board, there's probably plenty of "see what the muslims do?!?!?!"

Oh well, wonder what kinda music and videogames these guys played. Maybe there's something there.... :wallbash:

See I've seen it differently around the web, kind of the opposite:

"The guy that killed Tiller is not representative of all Christians"
next day
"A Muslim killed some troops, and you're saying we shouldn't nuke them to hell?"

[badmonkey]

Operation Rescue/Operation Save America tout themselves as Christian groups.

Of course they do, but that's backwards. Al Qaeda touts themselves as a Muslim group too. That's like saying cheddar cheese touts itself as a cheese, therefore mozzarella must be yellow.

[angrymissy]

Of course they do, but that's backwards. Al Qaeda touts themselves as a Muslim group too. That's like saying cheddar cheese touts itself as a cheese, therefore mozzarella must be yellow.

My point is they are both religious fringe groups not representative of the whole.

For example, my Grandmother is a devout Catholic, doesn't approve of abortion, and she wouldn't be shooting doctors, her deal would be "tsk tsk, I'll pray for them".

I'd love it if religion just ceased to exist in all manners, personally.

[badmonkey]

My point is they are both religious fringe groups not representative of the whole.

For example, my Grandmother is a devout Catholic, doesn't approve of abortion, and she wouldn't be shooting doctors, her deal would be "tsk tsk, I'll pray for them".
Agreed


I'd love it if religion just ceased to exist in all manners, personally.
Religion isn't the problem. The problem is insane people who use their religion as an excuse to kill people. If there wasn't religion, insane people would kill for some other reason. Blaming religion for things is no different than blaming music, video games, movies, books or any information or entertainment that needs to be processed in some manner by a human mind. If the human mind processing things is fucked up, the result is going to be something fucked up.

[angrymissy]

Agreed

Religion isn't the problem. The problem is insane people who use their religion as an excuse to kill people. If there wasn't religion, insane people would kill for some other reason. Blaming religion for things is no different than blaming music, video games, movies, books or any information or entertainment that needs to be processed in some manner by a human mind. If the human mind processing things is fucked up, the result is going to be something fucked up.

I just personally don't like religion in general. There are always wackjobs.

I hope for an atheist President one day to cut through the shit.

[KatPw]

I just personally don't like religion in general. There are always wackjobs.

I hope for an atheist President one day to cut through the shit.

I think we still have a long way to go before that happens. Atheists are ranked just above Scientologists in terms of who is liked more. That really pisses me off.

[TripleSkeet]

For example, my Grandmother is a devout Catholic, doesn't approve of abortion, and she wouldn't be shooting doctors, her deal would be "tsk tsk, I'll pray for them".


Is that what she said when you married Jeff? ;)

agreed.

http://www.boritz.com/harrison/briss/briss5.jpg

Oh stop. Thats not violent, its just cosmetic. Anteater cocks are just weird.

[foodcourtdruide]

Agreed


Religion isn't the problem. The problem is insane people who use their religion as an excuse to kill people. If there wasn't religion, insane people would kill for some other reason. Blaming religion for things is no different than blaming music, video games, movies, books or any information or entertainment that needs to be processed in some manner by a human mind. If the human mind processing things is fucked up, the result is going to be something fucked up.

I agree 100%. Religion is not the problem, it is crazy people who use religion as their excuse that are the problem. Most of the time religion serves a very positive purpose in society, it's isolated incidents like these (and to a lesser extent, general intolerance bred by dogmatic beliefs) that hurt society.

[badmonkey]

Still waiting for a statement from the Commander in Chief about the murder of one of his soldiers.

He was pretty quick to condemn the abortion doctor's murder. Wonder what's taking him so long.

[Drunky McBetidont]

Still waiting for a statement from the Commander in Chief about the murder of one of his soldiers.

He was pretty quick to condemn the abortion doctor's murder. Wonder what's taking him so long.

dont you have internet radio to do? i am sure your friend is waiting to hear it.

[angrymissy]

Still waiting for a statement from the Commander in Chief about the murder of one of his soldiers.

He was pretty quick to condemn the abortion doctor's murder. Wonder what's taking him so long.

I agree with you on this one.

[HBox]

That is an extremely interesting statement when you consider the thread about the abortion doctor being murdered. Here we have a guy who says that he shot army recruiters for religious reasons. Over there we have a guy who shot an abortion doctor for what we (me included) assume are religious reasons but we don't have a statement from the suspect yet. They are both guilty of the same type of crime but they are treated differently based on their religion of choice. The guy who shot the abortion doctor is a Christian and treated as proof that this is how Christians think, while the guy who shot the army recruiters is a disturbed individual not a Muslim Extremist. They're both fucking wackjobs who are wrong about the teachings of their religions and have used their religions as an excuse to end a life.

I didn't mean to single out or attack HBox for his statement or his opinion here. It's just something I found interesting and his statement was a good example of it.

I didn't comment about the other guy but he was obviously crazy too. In each case it's religion amplifying a crazy guy who proceeds to do something destructive. Were there no religion I'm sure something would come along to incite either guy to do something.

[badmonkey]

dont you have internet radio to do? i am sure your friend is waiting to hear it.

Nice personal attack. You seem to have a personal issue with me. That's your problem not mine. What is it that you do again? Oh. Right. Internet troll. Good luck with that. Bet your mom's proud.

[Drunky McBetidont]

Nice personal attack. You seem to have a personal issue with me. That's your problem not mine. What is it that you do again? Oh. Right. Internet troll. Good luck with that. Bet your mom's proud.

i troll, mom too.

and i have an interent radio website. i'll pm you the link.

[foodcourtdruide]

Still waiting for a statement from the Commander in Chief about the murder of one of his soldiers.

He was pretty quick to condemn the abortion doctor's murder. Wonder what's taking him so long.

Eh, this is politics as usual, unfortunately.


Do you think we just don't care about soldiers? I mean, as alarming and horrifying as the treatment of veterans is, its largely ignored by the media. Maybe this is an extention of that?


I studied media theory in college, so this stuff fascinates me.

[Serpico1103]

That is an extremely interesting statement when you consider the thread about the abortion doctor being murdered. Here we have a guy who says that he shot army recruiters for religious reasons. Over there we have a guy who shot an abortion doctor for what we (me included) assume are religious reasons but we don't have a statement from the suspect yet. They are both guilty of the same type of crime but they are treated differently based on their religion of choice. The guy who shot the abortion doctor is a Christian and treated as proof that this is how Christians think, while the guy who shot the army recruiters is a disturbed individual not a Muslim Extremist. They're both fucking wackjobs who are wrong about the teachings of their religions and have used their religions as an excuse to end a life.

I didn't mean to single out or attack HBox for his statement or his opinion here. It's just something I found interesting and his statement was a good example of it.

How many acts of violence have been committed against army recruiters by muslims?

How many acts of violence have been committed against abortion doctors by RADICAL christians?

There is an organized movement against these abortion doctors.
I am unaware of an organized movement of muslims against army recruiters.

Both acts are the work of mad men. One seems to have been fueled more by an overly vocal group.

[scottinnj]

This happened yesterday.

Really? Totally missed this with all the Dr. Tiller, Air France & General Motors coverage.

WOW! I suck.

Thanks for posting the story. This dude's a wacko!

[A.J.]

Still waiting for a statement from the Commander in Chief about the murder of one of his soldiers.

He was pretty quick to condemn the abortion doctor's murder. Wonder what's taking him so long.

He's on his way to Riyadh.

[A.J.]

I hope for an atheist President one day to cut through the shit.

Amen!

(Well, you know what I mean.)

[Crispy123]

This really sucks. Maybe CIC should authorize recruiters to start carrying nines or at least have them at the Recruiting Station.

Don't really see how being an athiest would somehow cut through the shit though.

[angrymissy]

This really sucks. Maybe CIC should authorize recruiters to start carrying nines or at least have them at the Recruiting Station.

Don't really see how being an athiest would somehow cut through the shit though.

I don't like the idea of religion having any part in Government...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124266487032730893.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
http://men.style.com/gq/features/topsecret
Each cover page features inspiring color photographs -- soldiers praying, a young man preparing for battle, Saddam's statue falling. With them are biblical quotes, some related to providing strength to the soldiers but some about the godliness of the cause.

Next to a picture of an American tank is the quote: "Open the gates that the righteous nations may enter, The nation that keeps faith. Isaiah 26.2"

A photo of two soldiers in prayer is accompanied by the quote, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us. Here I am Lord, send me! Isaiah 6:8"

A photo of an American tank at sunset has superimposed on it, "Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Ephesians 6:13"

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/642352
Stranger still are new accounts emerging from France describing how former president Jacques Chirac was utterly baffled by a 2003 telephone conversation in which Bush reportedly invoked fanatical Old Testament prophecy – including the Earth-ending battle with forces of evil, Gog and Magog – in his arguments to enlist France in the Coalition of the Willing.

"This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins," Bush said to Chirac, according to Thomas Romer, a University of Lausanne theology professor who was later approached by French officials anxious to understand the biblical reference.

Chirac, in a new book by French journalist Jean-Claude Maurice, is quoted as confirming the surreal conversation, saying he was stupefied by Bush's reference to biblical prophecy and "wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs."

[Furtherman]

saying he was stupefied by Bush's reference to biblical prophecy

As we all were.

[Kris10]

I don't understand why people who don't like something can't just kill THEMSELVES. Don't hurt anyone else. Just kill them themselves. That way you never have to face the issue that bothers you so much.

Killing someone else only hurts that person, their families, friends, etc. Just take yourself out. Leave everyone else alone.

[badmonkey]

He's on his way to Riyadh.

It happened Monday afternoon. It's Wednesday now and not even a statement from Gibbs acknowledging it even happened.

Tiller's slaying drew condemnation from supporters, from some of those who tried to shut down his practice and from President Obama, who just two weeks ago urged Americans to seek "common ground" on the issue of abortion.

"However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence," Obama said in a statement issued by the White House.

The shooting prompted U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to direct federal marshals to "offer protection to other appropriate people and facilities around the nation," according to a statement from the Department of Justice. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/31/kansas.doctor.killed/)

Obama condems the abortion doctor on the same day. Don't see any condemnation anywhere by the white house and I don't see Eric Holder announcing how he is looking into how to keep recruiters safer.

I don't think Eric Holder needs to direct anybody to offer protection to the military. I'm just saying look how on top of it they are with the other issue while this one has been treated by the highest offices in this country as if it was graffiti on the recruiting station.

Two American servicemen are shot in cold blood in front of a recruiting center and one dies and the President of the United States can't make time to acknowledge it?

Let's see what's more important to the Commander In Chief since this happened.


Today he had time to write a letter to congress about healthcare. (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-reform/2009/06/obama_signals_willingness_to_c.html?hpid=news-col-blog) (pdf of letter (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/obama_healthcare_letter060309.pdf))

He had time to accept a medal from a king in Saudi Arabia. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/world/middleeast/04saudi.html)

Yesterday he announced his nomination for a new Secretary of the Army yesterday (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/02/AR2009060203381.html). Now call me crazy, but this might have been a good time to mention the armyrecruiter that died.
Announced today his nomination for chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/03/AR2009060302839.html)
"The administration is working closely with Congress to solve this difficult problem and ensure that states have the resources they need to maintain our roads and highways," a White House spokesman said on Tuesday. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124398661358179367.html) He can't issue a statement through a White House spokesman?


I'm sure he's got a crew of reporters TRAVELING with him. He can't issue a statement on the plane ride over? Excuses... excuses.

Maybe he don't want to condem the murder of American military servicemen by a Muslim convert while he's visiting Muslimland for fear of offending them. Sickening.

[foodcourtdruide]

It happened Monday afternoon. It's Wednesday now and not even a statement from Gibbs acknowledging it even happened.

[/URL]

Obama condems the abortion doctor on the same day. Don't see any condemnation anywhere by the white house and I don't see Eric Holder announcing how he is looking into how to keep recruiters safer.

I don't think Eric Holder needs to direct anybody to offer protection to the military. I'm just saying look how on top of it they are with the other issue while this one has been treated by the highest offices in this country as if it was graffiti on the recruiting station.

Two American servicemen are shot in cold blood in front of a recruiting center and one dies and the President of the United States can't make time to acknowledge it?

Let's see what's more important to the Commander In Chief since this happened.


[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-reform/2009/06/obama_signals_willingness_to_c.html?hpid=news-col-blog"]Today he had time to write a letter to congress about healthcare. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/31/kansas.doctor.killed/) (pdf of letter (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/obama_healthcare_letter060309.pdf))

He had time to accept a medal from a king in Saudi Arabia. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/world/middleeast/04saudi.html)

Yesterday he announced his nomination for a new Secretary of the Army yesterday (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/02/AR2009060203381.html). Now call me crazy, but this might have been a good time to mention the armyrecruiter that died.
Announced today his nomination for chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/03/AR2009060302839.html)
"The administration is working closely with Congress to solve this difficult problem and ensure that states have the resources they need to maintain our roads and highways," a White House spokesman said on Tuesday. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124398661358179367.html) He can't issue a statement through a White House spokesman?


I'm sure he's got a crew of reporters TRAVELING with him. He can't issue a statement on the plane ride over? Excuses... excuses.

Maybe he don't want to condem the murder of American military servicemen by a Muslim convert while he's visiting Muslimland for fear of offending them. Sickening.

I think you're seeing more into this than there really is. Obama should not have come out and condemned the murder of the abortion doctor. It is implied that murder is bad. Obama does not have to come out and tell all of us that it is. His statement about it was political. Your last sentence is a real leap.

[foodcourtdruide]

Just an additional thought.. How many murders occur in this country? Should Obama condemn every single one? I think Obama's political motivation for coming out against the murder of the abortion doctor is what should be in question, not his silence on this specific case.

[badmonkey]

I think you're seeing more into this than there really is. Obama should not have come out and condemned the murder of the abortion doctor. It is implied that murder is bad. Obama does not have to come out and tell all of us that it is. His statement about it was political. Your last sentence is a real leap.

My last sentence about not wanting to offend Muslims by condemning a murder committed by a Muslim? We know he's afraid of offending Muslims. He's proved it on several occasions. His last tour around the middle east wasn't derisively called the Apology Tour because he was over there making strong statements or standing firm on anything. You can't be too careful when you're fighting 'overseas contingency operations (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/25/obama-war-terror-overseas-contingency-operations)'.

He's the Commander In Chief and he absolutely should have made some sort of statement by now. It's not a typical murder. It was a political statement by a domestic terrorist who would have moved on to other targets if he hadn't been caught so quickly.

officers found maps to Jewish organizations, a child care center, a Baptist church, a post office and military recruiting centers in the southeastern U.S. and New York and Philadelphia (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gQACNshVFYt6M9CDykHq6DKqPhiwD98J7UTO6)
So here you have two domestic terrorist attacks in as many days. One on an abortion doctor and one on a military recruiting center. The abortion doctor's murder is immediately condemned. The murder of Pvt. William Long, 23yrs old has been ignored.

[foodcourtdruide]

My last sentence about not wanting to offend Muslims by condemning a murder committed by a Muslim? We know he's afraid of offending Muslims. He's proved it on several occasions. His last tour around the middle east wasn't derisively called the Apology Tour because he was over there making strong statements or standing firm on anything. You can't be too careful when you're fighting 'overseas contingency operations (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/25/obama-war-terror-overseas-contingency-operations)'.

He's the Commander In Chief and he absolutely should have made some sort of statement by now. It's not a typical murder. It was a political statement by a domestic terrorist who would have moved on to other targets if he hadn't been caught so quickly.


So here you have two domestic terrorist attacks in as many days. One on an abortion doctor and one on a military recruiting center. The abortion doctor's murder is immediately condemned. The murder of Pvt. William Long, 23yrs old has been ignored.

He's the President of the United States. He is going to go out of his way in order not to offend everyone. Including Muslims, Christians, Special Olympics participants. I agree that he should not have condemned one without condemning the other, but you are making a leap in saying that there is some vast conspiracy within the Obama administration not to offend Muslim extremists. What does he gain by that? Why would Saudi Arabia care if Obama says that he condemns the murder of a military recruiter wthin our country? That makes no sense to me.

Also, it is called an "Apology Tour" because some people wanted Obama to be more aggressive for no reason. I haven't had one person explain to me how Obama going to foreign countries and acting like a pissed off teenager would have helped our country.

[Ritalin]

As I see it, the President doesn't comment on every soldier killed in the line of duty. It's a terrible thing that soldiers are targets in their own country, and this guy clearly had mental problems.

[badmonkey]

He's the President of the United States. He is going to go out of his way in order not to offend everyone. Including Muslims, Christians, Special Olympics participants. I agree that he should not have condemned one without condemning the other, but you are making a leap in saying that there is some vast conspiracy within the Obama administration not to offend Muslim extremists. What does he gain by that? Why would Saudi Arabia care if Obama says that he condemns the murder of a military recruiter wthin our country? That makes no sense to me.

Also, it is called an "Apology Tour" because some people wanted Obama to be more aggressive for no reason. I haven't had one person explain to me how Obama going to foreign countries and acting like a pissed off teenager would have helped our country.

I surely didn't say he should go to foreign countries and act like a pissed off teenager and I haven't heard anybody say that. Beleive it or not, there is some middle ground between apologizing for everything your country has done before you got the position and screaming and railing at the world like a some sort of psychotic two year old. I don't think anybody (including Obama or Bush) has done either of the two things I just mentioned.

The bottom line his administration has ignored it for 2 days without even an "oh damn. that sucks". The lack of a statement by Obama leaves plenty of room for speculation. Isn't Michelle's pet project military families (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/20/politics/politico/main4531538.shtml) and caring for our soldiers? Maybe she's issued a statement somewhere instead? Nope.

[Ritalin]

How do you know that Obama didn't speak with the families? Again, I don't think the president comments on every soldier killed in the line of duty. You're just trying to politicize a horrible incident.

[badmonkey]

How do you know that Obama didn't speak with the families? Again, I don't think the president comments on every soldier killed in the line of duty. You're just trying to politicize a horrible incident.

I know he didn't speak with the families because nobody has mentioned it in the news yet.

Just the other day he managed to condemn this:
Robert Gibbs, the White House spokesman, said President Barack Obama "strongly condemns" the Zahedan attack and other acts of terrorism inside Iran. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/31/bomb-plane-tehran-iran-elections)

I'm just wondering what's the hold up.

[foodcourtdruide]

How do you know that Obama didn't speak with the families? Again, I don't think the president comments on every soldier killed in the line of duty. You're just trying to politicize a horrible incident.

Well, he does have a point though. Why does Obama make a statement regarding the murder of the abortion doctor and not this one? I agree with him that Obama is wrong here, but we just disagree on his motives.

And BM, how could we be sure Obama didn't speak to the family, etc? And the press secretary hasn't even bought this up? I'm surprised none of the beltway press has asked about it.

Wow, this story really got no play in the media, huh?

[badmonkey]

Well, he does have a point though. Why does Obama make a statement regarding the murder of the abortion doctor and not this one? I agree with him that Obama is wrong here, but we just disagree on his motives.

And BM, how could we be sure Obama didn't speak to the family, etc? And the press secretary hasn't even bought this up? I'm surprised none of the beltway press has asked about it.

Wow, this story really got no play in the media, huh?

I knew about it the day it happened when it was breaking news. Can't remember if it was Fox or the radio that I heard it on. I'm not saying Obama necessarily has some sinister motive for not making a statement on this. I'm mostly wondering why it doesn't strike him as worthy of acknowledgement.

[Serpico1103]

I knew about it the day it happened when it was breaking news. Can't remember if it was Fox or the radio that I heard it on. I'm not saying Obama necessarily has some sinister motive for not making a statement on this. I'm mostly wondering why it doesn't strike him as worthy of acknowledgement.

Sadly, but possibly, we have become numb to soldiers dying.
If you want to get political about it, maybe it is for the same reasons that Bush didn't want the coffins of the soldiers shown; to keep people from understanding the cost of war.
Maybe, if he publicly comments on them, he has a concern of devaluing other soldier's lost by not mentioning them.

Army recruiting is not a hot political issue now, so I think that is why he didn't comment. Abortion is always a hot topic, especially with the Supreme Court appointment looming, so I think that is why he did comment.

[badmonkey]

Sadly, but possibly, we have become numb to soldiers dying.
If you want to get political about it, maybe it is for the same reasons that Bush didn't want the coffins of the soldiers shown; to keep people from understanding the cost of war.
Maybe, if he publicly comments on them, he has a concern of devaluing other soldier's lost by not mentioning them.

Army recruiting is not a hot political issue now, so I think that is why he didn't comment. Abortion is always a hot topic, especially with the Supreme Court appointment looming, so I think that is why he did comment.

*cough* bullshit *cough*

In a reversal of an 18-year-old military policy that critics said was hiding the ultimate cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the news media will now be allowed to photograph the coffins of America’s war dead as their bodies are returned to the United States, but only if the families of the dead agree. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/us/26web-coffins.html)
It's only even vaguely true if you "meant" the first President Bush.

[Serpico1103]

*cough* bullshit *cough*


It's only even vaguely true if you "meant" the first President Bush.

Its true. Are you saying that GWB couldn't change the policy. Oh I get it, he isn't responsible for anything. Like the housing market wasn't GWB's fault because policies put into place before he came into office caused it. Yet, again he didn't stomp around and say they would destroy the economy. Or how, you and every republican is saying Obama hasn't done enough yet, but I think GWB had until 9/11 to change Clinton's security policies that he thought weakened us, but I don't think he changed any until after 9/11. The party of responsibility sure likes to pass the buck.

I gave you a valid reason. Politics. Abortion is one of those red hot topics, any news in that area will get more coverage. Army recruiting has never garnered the same type of coverage. Sorry.

[badmonkey]

Its true. Are you saying that GWB couldn't change the policy. Oh I get it, he isn't responsible for anything. Like the housing market wasn't GWB's fault because policies put into place before he came into office caused it. Yet, again he didn't stomp around and say they would destroy the economy.

How conveniently you forgot about ''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.'' (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print)
The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

''There is a general recognition that the supervisory system for housing-related government-sponsored enterprises neither has the tools, nor the stature, to deal effectively with the current size, complexity and importance of these enterprises,'' Treasury Secretary John W. Snow told the House Financial Services Committee in an appearance with Housing Secretary Mel Martinez, who also backed the plan. (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print)

Or how, you and every republican is saying Obama hasn't done enough yet, but I think GWB had until 9/11 to change Clinton's security policies that he thought weakened us, but I don't think he changed any until after 9/11. The party of responsibility sure likes to pass the buck.
I assure you, I and lots of other Republicans think that Obama has done too much already.
I gave you a valid reason. Politics. Abortion is one of those red hot topics, any news in that area will get more coverage. Army recruiting has never garnered the same type of coverage. Sorry.

You would think that when an army recruiter is murdered in front of his recruiting center by a self-declared militant muslim who is just passing through on his way to shoot up a child care center and some churches, the story just MIGHT be worth a comment from the President or is terrorism too passe to talk about now?

[Dude!]

You would think that when an army recruiter is murdered in front of his recruiting center by a self-declared militant muslim who is just passing through on his way to shoot up a child care center and some churches, the story just MIGHT be worth a comment from the President or is terrorism too passe to talk about now?

or
was this fellow
in fact
directed by obama?











(i just love to tweak
people like furtherman)

[Ritalin]

(echo, echo)

[Serpico1103]

How conveniently you forgot about (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print)

I assure you, I and lots of other Republicans think that Obama has done too much already.
You would think that when an army recruiter is murdered in front of his recruiting center by a self-declared militant muslim who is just passing through on his way to shoot up a child care center and some churches, the story just MIGHT be worth a comment from the President or is terrorism too passe to talk about now?

I guess the death of an army recruiter doesn't sells ads. Because guess who controls the media. Corporations. Corporations that strive for the highest profit possible.
Sorry, it isn't a liberal conspiracy.

You can't have it both ways. Either Bush did nothing, and he is therefore responsible for allowing a broken system to continue. OR! He changed the system, therefore taking ownership of it. After 8 years, you own it.

GWB will go down as the worst president in modern history. Defend away. Any criticism there was of Carter will be washed away by GWB's legacy. But, I guess it won't be far to write it until the war in Iraq is over.

I will be happy if the planet is still here when Obama is out of office. The only way he could do worse than GWB would be if he tore the planet apart.
So, sorry, I am not reacting to his lack of press conference on an army recruiter.
How we treat the military is despicable, they entrust their lives to our politicians, and are betrayed by fighting wars for with no purpose, no end.

[HBox]

This is just a theory but these were both attempted acts of terrorism, and by that I mean the killers were attempting to intimidate others to not do what the victims were doing, and you are dealing with a group of people more likely to be intimidated (abortion doctors) than the other group (soldiers). On top of that the there are a lot more people around like Tiller's murder than this Muslim guy. So the statement about Tiller was more intended for other targets of extremists rather than Tiller's family. But like I said, that's just a guess. I'm just being honest when I say that over-analyzing Obama's statements and non-statement is a useless and pointless exercise. It comes off more to me like desperately trying to find anything to criticize.

[Crispy123]

Army recruiting is not a hot political issue now, so I think that is why he didn't comment. Abortion is always a hot topic, especially with the Supreme Court appointment looming, so I think that is why he did comment.

Not true. Army Recruiting is very much a huge issue. These poor bastards are being treated like shit by their own Chain of Command and are committing suicide in record numbers. I think BM has a point that its fucked up not to get any mention from the WH but it may have something to do with the investigations going on into PTSD adn Army recruiting going on right now.
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0209/020909nj2.htm

[Serpico1103]

Not true. Army Recruiting is very much a huge issue. These poor bastards are being treated like shit by their own Chain of Command and are committing suicide in record numbers. I think BM has a point that its fucked up not to get any mention from the WH but it may have something to do with the investigations going on into PTSD adn Army recruiting going on right now.
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0209/020909nj2.htm

I agree that all soldiers are treated poorly; always have been by our ungrateful nation. That was not my point, not sure how that could be inferred from it.
But, army recruiting is not the political issue that abortion is. Simple fact. Do politicians run on a pro-recruiting platform? Do we get constant coverage of how the Supreme Court may rule on recruiting issues? No.

Maybe he didn't talk about it because the military is having trouble recruiting and someone decided that drawing attention to this will only hurt it more. Just a guess.

[badmonkey]

Check out my new shiny hat.

This is just a theory but these were both attempted acts of terrorism, and by that I mean the killers were attempting to intimidate others to not do what the victims were doing, and you are dealing with a group of people more likely to be intimidated (abortion doctors) than the other group (soldiers). On top of that the there are a lot more people around like Tiller's murder than this Muslim guy. So the statement about Tiller was more intended for other targets of extremists rather than Tiller's family. But like I said, that's just a guess. I'm just being honest when I say that over-analyzing Obama's statements and non-statement is a useless and pointless exercise. It comes off more to me like desperately trying to find anything to criticize.

I'm not analyzing it at all. I'm both curious and irritated that he hasn't said anything about it. It really bothers me that Obama is so silent on this but so quick to issue a statement on Sunday. I think it's disrespectful and I think it's bullshit especially when you consider the guy's other targets that he wasn't able to make because he got caught. I'm not asking for him to make a whole fucking speech on the subject, but it would be nice to hear something along the lines of "My heart goes out to the family and friends of Private William Long." would be nice. He could maybe declare himself “shocked and outraged” and to illustrate that outrage he could even go so far as to maybe warn that “However profound our differences as people over difficult issues such as religion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence.” That's about the full analysis from me. Deep huh.

[TheMojoPin]

Maybe he didn't talk about it because the military is having trouble recruiting and someone decided that drawing attention to this will only hurt it more. Just a guess.

Yeah, this and what HBox surmized sound most likely, plus the WH probably didn't want to have to speak to the nation about another tragic shooting. Callous as it sounds, the President getting up in such short order bringing up topics like this probably reflects negatively on opinion polls or "public morale" or whatever you want to call it. That's not to justify it, but that's likely a reason why you don't see Presidents commenting on every shooting that gets national attention.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yeah, this and what HBox surmized sound most likely, plus the WH probably didn't want to have to speak to the nation about another tragic shooting. Callous as it sounds, the President getting up in such short order bringing up topics like this probably reflects negatively on opinion polls or "public morale" or whatever you want to call it. That's not to justify it, but that's likely a reason why you don't see Presidents commenting on every shooting that gets national attention.

Then why comment on any?


I like so many things obama has done, but I don't like that he has continued the clinton/bush tradition of the perpetual campaign. You are president. Be president.

[TheMojoPin]

Then why comment on any?


I like so many things obama has done, but I don't like that he has continued the clinton/bush tradition of the perpetual campaign. You are president. Be president.

I'm just saying, Presidents don't comment on all national tragedies, and they tend to especially not comment on ones in short succession unless it's something unavoidable. Personally I think he should given the nature of what happened. I'm just offering my theories as to why the WH hasn't thus far.

[HBox]

Then why comment on any?


I like so many things obama has done, but I don't like that he has continued the clinton/bush tradition of the perpetual campaign. You are president. Be president.

I agree with the sentiment but it goes far beyond Bush and Clinton.

[Crispy123]

I agree that all soldiers are treated poorly; always have been by our ungrateful nation. That was not my point, not sure how that could be inferred from it.
But, army recruiting is not the political issue that abortion is. Simple fact. Do politicians run on a pro-recruiting platform? Do we get constant coverage of how the Supreme Court may rule on recruiting issues? No.

Maybe he didn't talk about it because the military is having trouble recruiting and someone decided that drawing attention to this will only hurt it more. Just a guess.

Not inferring anything just responding to your point that Army Recruiting is not a hot issue. Yeah agreed its not as big as abortion but again, there is a record number of Army Recruiting suicides. Enough to get a Congressional Inquiry. This has been a big issue for the military this year and Im pointing it out that it is very political and a hot issue in Washington right now, even if not in the media.

[Recyclerz]

I think Bad Monkey makes a fair point. I searched around a bit and didn't find any statements or press releases on the murder either from the White House or the DoD. I sent an e-mail on the White House web site and if I get a response I'll post it here. Preferably though , either Obama, Biden or Secy. Gates should issue a public statement on the tragedy.

[Serpico1103]

Not inferring anything just responding to your point that Army Recruiting is not a hot issue. Yeah agreed its not as big as abortion but again, there is a record number of Army Recruiting suicides. Enough to get a Congressional Inquiry. This has been a big issue for the military this year and Im pointing it out that it is very political and a hot issue in Washington right now, even if not in the media.

So, that might be why Obama has not referenced. To try to keep it out of the public eye as much as possible.
Or the Army asked him to, to not draw further attention to an unfortunate military situation.

BUT AGAIN, army recruiting is not an issue for the general public, like abortion is. I am not saying one is more important than the other, only one always gets more attention than the other.

[foodcourtdruide]

I think Bad Monkey makes a fair point. I searched around a bit and didn't find any statements or press releases on the murder either from the White House or the DoD. I sent an e-mail on the White House web site and if I get a response I'll post it here. Preferably though , either Obama, Biden or Secy. Gates should issue a public statement on the tragedy.

I don't understand why a statement from the whitehouse means anything. Making statements condemning murders in this country is just a political move. Does anyone (outside the fringe) think Obama doesn't condemn this? Its absurd. Why does he need to tell everyone he condemns it? My beef with Obama is he politicized the abortion doctor killing.

[boosterp]

Do you think we just don't care about soldiers? I mean, as alarming and horrifying as the treatment of veterans is, its largely ignored by the media. Maybe this is an extention of that?


Not entirely true; I am overall satisfied by my care as are many veterans that I talk to when I go to one of my many appointments. The new just prints the bullshit cry babies and the mistakes that the VA makes. Yet at civilian hospitals mistakes are made on a similar ratio and does not always makes the news.

How many acts of violence have been committed against army recruiters by muslims?

How many acts of violence have been committed against abortion doctors by RADICAL christians?

There is an organized movement against these abortion doctors.
I am unaware of an organized movement of muslims against army recruiters.

Both acts are the work of mad men. One seems to have been fueled more by an overly vocal group.

Flawed argument in that you only mention Army recruiters yet were there not recent news about the trial of 3 muslim extremists and their planned attack of a military base up in the North East of this country?

Sadly, but possibly, we have become numb to soldiers dying.
If you want to get political about it, maybe it is for the same reasons that Bush didn't want the coffins of the soldiers shown; to keep people from understanding the cost of war.
Maybe, if he publicly comments on them, he has a concern of devaluing other soldier's lost by not mentioning them.


The bolded is very true, the later was done out of respect and there still should be no pictures.



GWB will go down as the worst president in modern history. Defend away. Any criticism there was of Carter will be washed away by GWB's legacy. But, I guess it won't be far to write it until the war in Iraq is over.

Yet Cisneros set us up for the housing crisis during the Clinton reign. Cisneros, also in favoring this prior to enter Clinton administration, made this a priority. When Cisneros arrived at HUD, the home ownership rate was 63.7 percent. When he left office in 1997 it had risen to 65.7 percent. At the end of Clinton's second term it had continued this upward trend to 67.5 percent.[2] As the Clinton administration’s top housing official in the mid-1990s, Mr. Cisneros loosened mortgage restrictions so first-time buyers could qualify for loans they could never get before - contributing to the the great housing and financial crisis that began 10 years later.[3] Wikipedia.

I will be happy if the planet is still here when Obama is out of office. The only way he could do worse than GWB would be if he tore the planet apart.
So, sorry, I am not reacting to his lack of press conference on an army recruiter.
How we treat the military is despicable, they entrust their lives to our politicians, and are betrayed by fighting wars for with no purpose, no end.

GHB (going back to Iraq) and Clinton (cuts that nearly crippled us) fucked the military. I joined during the first Bush and he set us up for failure by not going after Sadam in the first place.

Not inferring anything just responding to your point that Army Recruiting is not a hot issue. Yeah agreed its not as big as abortion but again, there is a record number of Army Recruiting suicides. Enough to get a Congressional Inquiry. This has been a big issue for the military this year and Im pointing it out that it is very political and a hot issue in Washington right now, even if not in the media.

and had lost 3 here in Houston within a month.

[Serpico1103]

Flawed argument in that you only mention Army recruiters yet were there not recent news about the trial of 3 muslim extremists and their planned attack of a military base up in the North East of this country?
Because corporate media doesn't care. Why? They think consumers don't care. More news everyday is paid to baseball than the war in Iraq. From day one of the invasion until now. Sad but true, people want to be left alone; comfortable and numb. Don't bother them with bad news.



The bolded is very true, the later was done out of respect and there still should be no pictures.
Not showing the coffins is not a show a respect, no matter what the public reason given was. A show of respect is making a big deal of our dead coming home, and forcing people to realize the cost of the cause. The "God hates fags" people are disrespectful, a picture of coffins coming home to rest, is not.



GHB (going back to Iraq) and Clinton (cuts that nearly crippled us) fucked the military. I joined during the first Bush and he set us up for failure by not going after Sadam in the first place.

The military doesn't need to be large. Unless, you start needless wars.



GWB wanted war in Iraq at all costs. If it wasn't 9/11 and suspected WMDs it would have been something else. I hate chicken hawks.