Soon you'll need carbon credit permits to grill in your back yard. (Jezo Lies Again)

[LordJezo]

"The federal government can come in and inspect your house and send you the bill. And if they find that you’re out of compliance with this new federal code, 'The Secretary shall assess a civil penalty for violations of this section,'" Scalise said. "Now living in your home is considered unlawful under this bill. This is ludicrous."

Taking his argument a step further, Scalise called into question the very constitutionality of the measure. He reminded his fellow congressmen that the 10th Amendment to the Constitution says, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to states respectively or to the people.”

This bill comes in and basically says throw out the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
~ Rep. Steve Scalise (R-LA)

Ahh well, that's about it. The police are on patrol and they'll be coming after you for creating too much green house gas. Can't wait for carbon taxes on grill propane and charcoal to be used on a weekend cookout.

It's being called the biggest tax increase in American history, all because a bunch of people are afraid about some global warming bunk. Reports are that its going to cost us anywhere from $200 extra year to $6000 extra for a family of four in a few years when the restrictions really start ramping up. Price increased are expected in just about every possible good and service out there as industry is clamped down on with green energy nonsense.

Sucks.

[IMSlacker]

My grill runs on the audacity of hope.

[styckx]

Welcome to one of the greatest shams on Earth. Now sucking money out of your wallet based on everything but written history.

[LordJezo]

My grill runs on the audacity of hope.

Soon it will run on the audacity of carbon credits.

"Sorry guys, can't have our 4th of July party this year, I already used up all my carbon credits."

The future is going to be depressing.

[shittles]

those fed jackbooted thugs are going to be taking my grill from my cold dead hands. fascist Obama bastards

[TheMojoPin]

The police are on patrol and they'll be coming after you for creating too much green house gas.

No, they're not.

[Serpico1103]

Soon it will run on the audacity of carbon credits.

"Sorry guys, can't have our 4th of July party this year, I already used up all my carbon credits."

The future is going to be depressing.

You are right. Two wars without end, a depression, North Korea arming itself, and Iran in turmoil. But, no outdoor cookout- the end it here.

Please, get a new gimmick.

[Snoogans]

You are right. Two wars without end, a depression, North Korea arming itself, and Iran in turmoil. But, no outdoor cookout- the end it here.

Please, get a new gimmick.

trust me this is way better than his other gimmick

[red_red_red]

no worries, where i live, they will never enforce such silliness :thumbup: we don't have emission tests either :thumbup:

[shittles]

I heard that the Obama islamofascist gestapo will make an exception if you are burning bibles on the grill.

[Serpico1103]

Ahh well, that's about it. The police are on patrol and they'll be coming after you for creating too much green house gas. Can't wait for carbon taxes on grill propane and charcoal to be used on a weekend cookout.

It's being called the biggest tax increase in American history, all because a bunch of people are afraid about some global warming bunk. Reports are that its going to cost us anywhere from $200 extra year to $6000 extra for a family of four in a few years when the restrictions really start ramping up. Price increased are expected in just about every possible good and service out there as industry is clamped down on with green energy nonsense.

Sucks.

Yes the federal agents are after you. They will storm into your backyard and take your contraband- marijuana. How does the federal government get the authority to regulate drugs you grow in your backyard?
Republicans with no respect for the constitution.

[Contra]

Who said what to who now?

Its like you purposely wanted to post the most vague part of the article, I have no idea what this is about.

[FezsAssistant]

I hope Al Gore gives some kickbacks to all of his friends in the media and government who just made him a billionaire based on completely false info. i guess gore got his revenge on the voters and taxpayers.

[LordJezo]

No, they're not.

A year ago people said that to the whole concept of this sort of bill. Now it happened and those same people are saying that no, they wont start taxing you for doing stuff like using your grill.

They'll figure out a way even if it is making everything associated with grilling more expensive with green energy taxes.

This bill is the end of freedom as we know it.

[underdog]

The Fez and Dave haters are less predictable than you are.

[underdog]

Who said what to who now?

Its like you purposely wanted to post the most vague part of the article, I have no idea what this is about.

Welcome to every Lord Jezo post.

[shittles]

A year ago people said that to the whole concept of this sort of bill. Now it happened and those same people are saying that no, they wont start taxing you for doing stuff like using your grill.

They'll figure out a way even if it is making everything associated with grilling more expensive with green energy taxes.

This bill is the end of freedom as we know it.

all based on the lie of global warming. I wish one person would show proof that human activity is causing the world to get warmer. it's all theory

[SatCam]

oh man this sucks i have a terrible carbon credit rating i wont be able to grill anything this summer!

[red_red_red]

Welcome to every Lord Jezo post.
:laugh::laugh::laugh:...sorry, i know it's a sin to laugh in these parts, but oh well

[Contra]

Welcome to every Lord Jezo post.

I should have known right?

[styckx]

It's a shame how many people don't know what this really is about.

It's cool though. 30, 40, 50, 100, 200, years later when none of this shit stops "global warming" maybe.. Just maybe someone in a Government somewhere may propose a crazy idea that humans are a fleck of dust on this planet and that it may be a good idea to find out what makes the climates really change.

Dinosaur farts did not end the Ice Age

[IMSlacker]

Dinosaur farts did not end the Ice Age

That's just a theory.

[Serpico1103]

A year ago people said that to the whole concept of this sort of bill. Now it happened and those same people are saying that no, they wont start taxing you for doing stuff like using your grill.

They'll figure out a way even if it is making everything associated with grilling more expensive with green energy taxes.

This bill is the end of freedom as we know it.

You are right. It is the same as when they make companies clean up rivers that they have "polluted." Contrary to what Libs think, healthy rivers catch fire occasionally, it has nothing to do with chemicals being dumped into the water supply.

I love the new Republican message- "Let everyone else pay for my actions. If I pollute, fuck you, you clean it up."

[styckx]

You are right. It is the same as when they make companies clean up rivers that they have "polluted." Contrary to what Libs think, healthy rivers catch fire occasionally, it has nothing to do with chemicals being dumped into the water supply.

I love the new Republican message- "Let everyone else pay for my actions. If I pollute, fuck you, you clean it up."

Quite possibly the worst example ever

[brettmojo]

"Wait and see." We waited. December 7th, we saw... The "Wait and see"ers will bust your ass every time!

[TheMojoPin]

I'm really cracking up at the people in this thread thinking that anything Jezo posted is even remotely close to any kind of reality.

[underdog]

I blame the Jews and the Zionist sympathizers.

[red_red_red]

I'm really cracking up at the people in this thread thinking that anything Jezo posted is even remotely close to any kind of reality.
stifle it

[underdog]

I'm really cracking up at the people in this thread thinking that anything Jezo posted is even remotely close to any kind of reality.

I still blame the Jews.

8 more seconds?! But I'm angry at Jews NOW!

[TheMojoPin]

I also love the idea that the theories about global warming ar a "scam," like there's some kind of powerful lobby making crazy profits off of this whole thing.

[underdog]

I also love the idea that the theories about global warming ar a "scam," like there's some kind of powerful lobby making crazy profits off of this whole thing.

The Jews are.

[TheMojoPin]

I mean besides them.

[red_red_red]

The Jews are.
captain obvious...when aren't they?

[underdog]

I mean besides them.

Libs.

[TheMojoPin]

Libs.

That's just redundant.

[LordJezo]

That's just redundant.

Brits?

http://www.bbc5.tv/news/story/great-global-warming-swindle

<embed src="http://blip.tv/play/gedT1pNRkNIs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="400" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>

[underdog]

I mean besides them.

Socialist little faggots.

[underdog]

I mean besides them.

Snoogans.

[styckx]

Great read

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/38574742.html

[underdog]

Great read

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/38574742.html

Jews are not mentioned once in this article. It is untrustworthy.

[TheMojoPin]

Brits?

http://www.bbc5.tv/news/story/great-global-warming-swindle

<embed src="http://blip.tv/play/gedT1pNRkNIs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="400" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>

Jezo, you so sassy.

It's not a terribly sound documentary. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle#Reception_and_cri ticism)

[LordJezo]

I like the way my topics are edited. Just another example how those in power can easily change and force feed their views to others and not allow dissenting views to ever get out to the people.

But I guess that's expected by a message board run by hardcore lefties. Stifling any views that go against them is pretty much par for course for anyone that posts here.

[TheMojoPin]

Great read

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/38574742.html

Big fan of the "one-world government" theories?

That guy sure is.

[LordJezo]

Jezo, you so sassy.

It's not a terribly sound documentary. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle#Reception_and_cri ticism)

Coming from the same group of people that use Michael Moore as a christ like figure. I remember when his 9/11 movie came out, people stood up and cheered in the theater when it ended. Media is used as a tool to get what you want, anything on the right is labeled false and is attacked from all sides.

[underdog]

I like the way my topics are edited. Just another example how those in power can easily change and force feed their views to others and not allow dissenting views to ever get out to the people.

But I guess that's expected by a message board run by hardcore lefties. Stifling any views that go against them is pretty much par for course for anyone that posts here.

If there's one thing I know about AJ, its that he's a hardcore lefty.

And probably a Jew.

[underdog]

Coming from the same group of people that use Michael Moore as a christ like figure. I remember when his 9/11 movie came out, people stood up and cheered in the theater when it ended. Media is used as a tool to get what you want, anything on the right is labeled false and is attacked from all sides.

You know who cheered after 9/11?

[HBox]

Great read

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/38574742.html

The basis of that article is a man who died in 1991.

1991.

[LordJezo]

You know who cheered after 9/11?

Lilly's family.

[TheMojoPin]

I like the way my topics are edited. Just another example how those in power can easily change and force feed their views to others and not allow dissenting views to ever get out to the people.

But I guess that's expected by a message board run by hardcore lefties. Stifling any views that go against them is pretty much par for course for anyone that posts here.

Damn right.

Yeah, what was I thinking taking a shot at yet another one of your inaccurate and distorted threads designed just to foster paranoia?

Way to post an out of context quote and your own fake conspiratorial ramblings and nothing else. No explanation or links to what the quote is even about or what you're pretending to be afraid of.

My raction towards you has nothing to do with anyone being on the "Left" or the "Right." It has everything to do with you being an attention seeking troll.

[underdog]

Lilly's family.

It's weird knowing Muslims and Jews cheered on the same day.

USA #1

[IMSlacker]

Media is used as a tool to get what you want, anything on the right is labeled false and is attacked from all sides.

even the right side?

[underdog]

It has everything to do with you being an attention seeking troll.

Farthammer has not even posted in this thread and you're already attacking him.

[LordJezo]

Damn right.

Yeah, what was I thinking taking a shot at yet another one of your inaccurate and distorted threads designed just to foster paranoia?

The whole purpose of this bill is to foster paranoia in the entire American population that if they create CO2 that they will have to pay for it because they are harming Gaia.

It's a sham and the middle class will suffer because of it.

[underdog]

Media is used as a tool to get what you want, anything on the right is labeled false and is attacked from all sides.

How many sides are there?

[TheMojoPin]

Coming from the same group of people that use Michael Moore as a christ like figure. I remember when his 9/11 movie came out, people stood up and cheered in the theater when it ended. Media is used as a tool to get what you want, anything on the right is labeled false and is attacked from all sides.

All sides? Wouldn't also include...THE RIGHT?!?

OH MY GOD, IT'S ANARCHY.

I'm not a group, you freak. I have no allegiance to Moore. The documentary you posted hinges on bad science and it has been called out on it and proven to be faulty in a number of its conclusions while spinning and misconstruing much of the information and people it presents. Just because a documentary-maker on the "Left" has used the same means to make his films doesn't make this film legit.

[LordJezo]

At least he is admitting to the pain it is going to cause everyone..

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BqHL404zhcU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BqHL404zhcU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

We are all going to suffer because of this.

[TheMojoPin]

The whole purpose of this bill is to foster paranoia in the entire American population that if they create CO2 that they will have to pay for it because they are harming Gaia.

It's a sham and the middle class will suffer because of it.

And your proof of this is....what?

All you could muster was one quote from someone who was going to be opposed to anything along these lines even before it was written?

You've just dropping a thread where you're saying that the police will be ticketing and fining people for using their grills. You can't back that up at all. Your M.O. is to say ridiculous and creepy things just to provoke people. This is just more of the same from you.

[underdog]

And your proof of this is....what?

All you could muster was one quote from someone who was going to be opposed to anything along these lines even before it was written?

You've just dropping a thread where you're saying that the police will be ticketing and fining people for using their grills. You can't back that up at all. Your M.O. is to say ridiculous and creepy things just to provoke people. This is just more of the same from you.

You really just like arguing, don't you?

[TheMojoPin]

You really just like arguing, don't you?

I'm really just fed up with his bullshit.

[underdog]

I'm really just fed up with his bullshit.

Just ignore him like everyone else.

[TheMojoPin]

I wish I could.

[LordJezo]

Just ignore him like everyone else.

How is it bullshit if other people have the same viewpoints as I do?

You guys should welcome a non liberal voice onto this message board to help make it fair and balanced.

[Snoogans]

How is it bullshit if other people have the same viewpoints as I do?

You guys should welcome a non liberal voice onto this message board to help make it fair and balanced.

yea you see to be so fair in your opinions

[TheMojoPin]

How is it bullshit if other people have the same viewpoints as I do?

You guys should welcome a non liberal voice onto this message board to help make it fair and balanced.

And the other non-liberals should reject your voice since it's a fake crazy one.

[Chigworthy]

There's nothing wrong with the edit to your thread title because you did lie:

The police are on patrol and they'll be coming after you for creating too much green house gas.

The whole purpose of this lie is to foster paranoia. Police don't do code enforcement.

[LordJezo]

Police don't do code enforcement.

Yet.

[The Jays]

How is it bullshit if other people have the same viewpoints as I do?

You guys should welcome a non liberal voice onto this message board to help make it fair and balanced.

Because you and the other people can believe whatever crazy shit you want to believe, it's still bullshit. People believe that 9/11 was done by the government, and that's bullshit, but you can still have your stupid bullshit opinion, but you can't just blame "liberals" for people not believing in your bullshit. Blame yourself for believing in bullshit.

A non-liberal voice?? No, everyone would rather welcome a voice that doesn't openly spout bullshit that they can't back up, like police kicking down our picket fences because we grilled a Chilean sea bass on some cedar planks.

[TooLowBrow]

every fall i rake up a big pile of leaves and burn them all up. the police never say a thing

[The Jays]

Soon you will be sent to Gitmo and tried as an enemy combatant for your terrorism against the Ozone layer.

[TooLowBrow]

Soon you will be sent to Gitmo and tried as an enemy combatant for your terrorism against the Ozone layer.

no way. theres no way they could stop you from burning LEAVES! thats ridiculous!

[shittles]

Because you and the other people can believe whatever crazy shit you want to believe, it's still bullshit. People believe that 9/11 was done by the government, and that's bullshit, but you can still have your stupid bullshit opinion, but you can't just blame "liberals" for people not believing in your bullshit. Blame yourself for believing in bullshit.

A non-liberal voice?? No, everyone would rather welcome a voice that doesn't openly spout bullshit that they can't back up, like police kicking down our picket fences because we grilled a Chilean sea bass on some cedar planks.

fuckin starvin

[shittles]

Lilly's family.

I love going to her dad's restaurant on the big 9/11 celebration day. drinks half price

[jauble]

You are right. It is the same as when they make companies clean up rivers that they have "polluted." Contrary to what Libs think, healthy rivers catch fire occasionally, it has nothing to do with chemicals being dumped into the water supply.

I love the new Republican message- "Let everyone else pay for my actions. If I pollute, fuck you, you clean it up."

Cleveland rocks

[TooLowBrow]

we grilled a Chilean sea bass on some cedar planks.

soon youll have to settle for salmon on cedar and buy it at a seattle baseball stadium

[keithy_19]

I haven't read too much about this bill, and the cable news networks are a little behind on account of Jackson's death.

What I have heard is that this bill will increase taxes. It increases the size of government. And, perhaps most importantly, it's another 1,000 page plus work that no one really read through completely.

I wish the government would know about what it's voting for.

And to respond to a previous post about the media being used to get what you want, both sides use it. Of course they do. That's all.

[Ogre]

I haven't read too much about this bill, and the cable news networks are a little behind on account of Jackson's death.

What I have heard is that this bill will increase taxes. It increases the size of government. And, perhaps most importantly, it's another 1,000 page plus work that no one really read through completely.

I wish the government would know about what it's voting for.

And to respond to a previous post about the media being used to get what you want, both sides use it. Of course they do. That's all.

Propane Nazis..maybe not. Lot's of hidden special interests and open ended legislation contained in the Bill to be sure. If America really want's another change then there is the 2010 midterms and 2012 Presidential elections. Until then try to hold on to the Crazy Train. Bad things man....Bad things....

[joethebartender]

"When all government... in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the centre of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated."
--Thomas Jefferson

:help:
--JoeTheBartender

[epo]

Creating new industries through clean energy is bad?

I just wanted to get that straight....

[sr71blackbird]

Link: (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090627/ap_on_go_co/us_climate_bill)


Democrats narrowly passed historic climate and energy legislation Friday evening that would transform the country’s economy and industrial landscape.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24232.html#ixzz0JdsPOeaE&C


300 some odd pages of this legislation was added to the bill at 3AM the night before the vote and it was not even looked at. This bill will have a profound impact on jobs and taxes in regards to what we all pay for fuel, heating, lights, etc. You would have thought that it would get some scrutiny before being signed into law, but no. They will worry about it later. Where is this country going? Are not the people we all voted on being paid to look at this stuff before the sign it into law? Everyone seems to agree that some things need to be done, but not everyone, including some people who did the research to find out the impact of industrializations effect on global warming are all on the same page. A lot of people feel that more needs to be looked at before we made drastic decisions that impact jobs and the economy. It is not written in stone that the current environmental situation is completely attributable to industrialization.

[LordJezo]

Post first, search later?

http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81810

olol.

[Ogre]

I just farted. My 2 cents is in the mail. Twenty two farts to go until I spend my "postage stamp" for the day. Think I'll have some Bratwurst.

How come the President says it's OK for Middle Eastern countries to develop Nukes technology for fuel, but we have to use windmills and solar cells ?

I got two words for why this sham is just a grift on the American taxpayer. China and India.

[TheMojoPin]

You guys are weird.

[Ogre]

Creating new industries through clean energy is bad?

I just wanted to get that straight....

If it is a bad business model where you and I pay the freight for experimental technologies as a result of a debated scientific finding, whose results may or may not be validated in 30 or so years after the whole energy sector of the economy is crippled ? Then yes this is bad.

[TheMojoPin]

If it is a bad business model where you and I pay the freight for experimental technologies as a result of a debated scientific finding, whose results may or may not be validated in 30 or so years after the whole energy sector of the economy is crippled ? Then yes this is bad.

Even if you don't buy into the global warming evidence, the bill is ideally designed to be a big step in getting us off our foreign oil dependence. Set aside the environmental stuff making you surly...isn't the latter something we need to do?

[Ogre]

Mojo, to be totally honest with ourselves and everyone else in the room. It is absolutley insane to vote a Bill into law without reading it and understanding it. I agree that we should wean ourselves from importing crude, but we should at least read and digest what is being voted on. It didn't take 4 hours to write the bill, so there should have been more than four hours of review. Let's be honest people that was a Pelosi ram job.

[The Jays]

We need to do SOMETHING to push us forward to not burn oil, coal, and natural gas. I fucking loathe the opinion that we have sooo much oil, sooo much coal, sooo much gas that we SHOULD be burning them since they do not harm to the environment. That's all I hear from people who are against sustainable alternatives.

Forget the whole global warming thing. Let's talk economic sense. Oil, coal, and and gas are non-renewable resources, meaning the more we use, the more supply dwindles, the higher the cost. Solar, wind, hydroelectric, geothermal, in addition to renewable fuels such as wood pellets, those are CHEAP, but the technologies to first implement are high...too much short-term cost blinds people to the long-term savings. That's cheaper energy for us, and, very key here, NO FOREIGN DEPENDENCE FOR FUEL. We could fucking bankrupt all the countries that hate us but sell us fuel, if we just fucking bothered to wake up and change the way we burn through energy.

And this isn't just about cars. Our buildings are the largest consumers and squanderers of energy. Yet we all keep buying large fucking houses, which cost more to heat, when we could be buying houses designed to retain heat passively from the sun during days we need heat, passively cooled from the ground or through roof ponds during the summer, and passively vented through the stack effect or actively vented with systems powered by solar, wind, or renewable fuel, with electricity stored in batteries. We also don't need to stick to just one source, this all works if we use a combination of energy sources. And we keep building office buildings and retail stores that could be using similar methods to heat, cool, and ventilate, but don't because we're all ignorant fucking assholes.

Getting back to this bill, I don't like this bill, I don't lke Congress way of doing things to pass a thousand page bill without reading it (but we did that with the Patriot Act and that saved lives, right?) I think there's better ways to lure us to energy independence, but at least it's something, it's an attempt to move us forward, at least it's not Boehner's proposal, or the Republican proposal, which is NOTHING. No fucking input on what we need to do whatsoever. Way to fucking go, Republicans. Instead of propose an alternate to a bill,put your fingers in your fucking ears and go "LLALALALALA, DON'T HEAR YOU!!" It's so fucking stupid, we need to do something to get off of foreign energy, and this is what the Republicans wan, to just ignore it all and keep buying shit from people spending our oil money assembling weapons to eventually kill us.

[sailor]

We need to do SOMETHING to push us forward to not burn oil, cola, and natural gas.

new from the coca cola family of products:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/204/506449539_3945277eec.jpg?v=0

[The Jays]

I edited it. Though I would like to burn cola.

[sailor]

I edited it. Though I would like to burn cola.

yeah, i saw. took me so long to find an image that actually showed the coke logo as well. :) maybe they can do something like that guy did with burning salt water or such.

[Serpico1103]

Quite possibly the worst example ever

Coming from someone who buys the Republican BS of "the earth will be here long after us, so nothing we do matters."
We are drastically changing the makeup of the planet. In the last 50 years the damage we have done is astounding. For one example, look up hypoxic oceans caused by fertilizers.
So, besides eating shitty chemical laden food, the runoff is destroying the oceans.

It is not a matter of saving the planet man, it is a matter of saving the planet's ability to sustain humans.

[booster11373]

Mojo, to be totally honest with ourselves and everyone else in the room. It is absolutley insane to vote a Bill into law without reading it and understanding it. I agree that we should wean ourselves from importing crude, but we should at least read and digest what is being voted on. It didn't take 4 hours to write the bill, so there should have been more than four hours of review. Let's be honest people that was a Pelosi ram job.

This not the first time this has happened

[Serpico1103]

Mojo, to be totally honest with ourselves and everyone else in the room. It is absolutley insane to vote a Bill into law without reading it and understanding it. I agree that we should wean ourselves from importing crude, but we should at least read and digest what is being voted on. It didn't take 4 hours to write the bill, so there should have been more than four hours of review. Let's be honest people that was a Pelosi ram job.

Of course that is a problem. But, it is not particular to this bill. Bills are simply too large for them to read. I am sure that is the intent, every congressmen buries their little pet projects deep into important bills.
They should work 12 hour days, 6 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Vote on each item. Not a "bill" that in the end laden with shit.

[A.J.]

I'm safe.

http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Galleries/Shows/G_L/Ki_Kp/KingOfTheHill/crops/king-of-hill3.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

Mojo, to be totally honest with ourselves and everyone else in the room. It is absolutley insane to vote a Bill into law without reading it and understanding it. I agree that we should wean ourselves from importing crude, but we should at least read and digest what is being voted on. It didn't take 4 hours to write the bill, so there should have been more than four hours of review. Let's be honest people that was a Pelosi ram job.

I agree with you in that regard. All that stuff getting tacked on there is highly suspect, just like every other time it happens.

[styckx]

Coming from someone who buys the Republican BS of "the earth will be here long after us, so nothing we do matters."


First of all... Why.. Why.. Why. No matter what the topic of conversation is or what people are debating/having a good discussion about, republication, liberal, democrat, blah blah blah always get tossed around like some kind of shocking insult? Political parties are irrelevant in conversations like this as I'm not trying to run for congress or the mayor of a small town. Nevermind the fact I don't lean towards any of them cause they are all full of shit in my opinion.

Secondly, I never said "nothing we do matters" I merely said I don't buy any of this shit has to do with global warming. The climate is changing yes, but I do not believe it's from a direct result of us yet. I've read both sides of the argument here. I lean towards the we have nothing to do with it and the climate change is a natural cycle earth is going through. I do however see the point the other side makes about co2 emissions. Fact of the matter remains all the experts in the world can't agree on it either. No one really knows for certain.

As far as polluting rivers, lakes etc. Yeah, I agree it sucks and it shouldn't happen and needs to stop. Again, I was focusing on the global warming/climate change solution that this bill is advertised as.

[ImNotGvac]

....... a Pelosi ram job.

EWWW!

[epo]

At the end of the day the global warming/cooling argument is stupid. Its the root cause of said problems (Rising CO2) that is the problem.

We must curb the rise of CO2 if we expect to survive as a species.

[The Jays]

I'm sure the free market will produce something that converts CO2 into money for healthcare.

[Serpico1103]

First of all... Why.. Why.. Why. No matter what the topic of conversation is or what people are debating/having a good discussion about, republication, liberal, democrat, blah blah blah always get tossed around like some kind of shocking insult? Political parties are irrelevant in conversations like this as I'm not trying to run for congress or the mayor of a small town. Nevermind the fact I don't lean towards any of them cause they are all full of shit in my opinion.
Secondly, I never said "nothing we do matters" I merely said I don't buy any of this shit has to do with global warming. The climate is changing yes, but I do not believe it's from a direct result of us yet. I've read both sides of the argument here. I lean towards the we have nothing to do with it and the climate change is a natural cycle earth is going through. I do however see the point the other side makes about co2 emissions. Fact of the matter remains all the experts in the world can't agree on it either. No one really knows for certain.
As far as polluting rivers, lakes etc. Yeah, I agree it sucks and it shouldn't happen and needs to stop. Again, I was focusing on the global warming/climate change solution that this bill is advertised as.

If you have done your reading on climate change. Find out where the side that claims we are not contributing to climate change gets almost all of its funding from. Here is a clue, starts with Big, ends with Oil.

Tobacco companies were pushing out studies that said smoking was safe, and even good for you. Anytime there is a study that supports corporate interests and a study that conflicts with corporate interests, I tend to believe the one that conflicts.

If you aren't changing the climate yet, think about the fact that China with a population four times our size has the same total CO2 emissions. So, when China catches up to our level, even if everything else remained constant, that will have a huge impact.

Also, consider all the people that don't drive cars, use electricity, use plastics. We are taking from them. The oceans, the air, the "climate" is not ours to disturb in the way we have been.

[angrymissy]

I'm sure the free market will produce something that converts CO2 into money for healthcare.

I heard it will convert it into CANDY!

[The Jays]

Anyone see Apollo 13? Remember they needed to build a CO2 filter out of a tube, a sock, a rubber band and a paper manual in less than 2 hours? They got that done, all done by government funding and a government-run program.

[scottinnj]

If you have done your reading on climate change. Find out where the side that claims we are not contributing to climate change gets almost all of its funding from. Here is a clue, starts with Big, ends with Oil.



But yet I can say the same thing about the funding that comes from the save our planet side.

First name
Disciples
Middle name
Of
Last Name
Gore

And that snake oil salesman is making a killing off suckers buying "carbon credits" to offset the "footprint" they give off driving their minivans to their family vacations.

Both sides are liars. We are polluting the earth and need to clean it up as best as we can but we are never going to be able to destroy it. We can kill ourselves, but the earth is how old? 10 trillion years old? And you hippies on Al Gore's wavelength think we can wipe it out and make it unlivable in 100 years? The arrogance of the power of man you people have is psychotic.

But that doesn't mean I give the Big Oil guys a pass either. You all are greedy Moes who will screw your neighbor for a nickel per gallon of gas. Then you have the audacity to say mankind has no impact on this planet? Do you really think we're that stupid? Or do all those retard kids who drank your mercury & lead infested drinking water vote Democratic, so screw them anyway?

[TheMojoPin]

It's creepy how obsessed some people are with Gore.

He is not the Alpha and the Omega of climate change science.

[Furtherman]

First name
Disciples
Middle name
Of
Last Name
Gore



Al Gore made a documentary that has long been discredited by scientists.
No one takes him seriously.

He is not nearly as influential as his opponents make him out to be. He's just another person vilified by conservative talk & TV to create false outrage.

Any followers who do feel he's a spokesman for global warming are so few in number that they cannot create any impact in disrupting our lives.

[scottinnj]

I'd like to believe you guys about Gore, but unfortunately the dummy was given a Nobel Prize for his BS by a pack of even bigger dummies. Rank and file liberals and moderates may dismiss him, but he is still respected (sort of like Al Sharpton) by the MSM and political lunkheads who make law based on his agenda.

[Furtherman]

I'd like to believe you guys about Gore, but unfortunately the dummy was given a Nobel Prize for his BS by a pack of even bigger dummies. Rank and file liberals and moderates may dismiss him, but he is still respected (sort of like Al Sharpton) by the MSM and political lunkheads who make law based on his agenda.

He was given a Nobel Peace Prize jointly with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. They were given it because they brought the oncoming environment problems to a global audience. He didn't win it because of his movie. He didn't win it and use it to push his "agenda", which, by the way, is what? What is his "agenda"? When was a law ever passed because of what he said?

They helped the cause of paying attention to our environment spread worldwide and brought up in discussions where it had never, if rarely, come up before. That is a good thing. That gets people talking to their neighbors. That gets countries talking to their neighbors. And talking most times promotes peace. That's why they got the prize. It had nothing to do with anything political.

[The Jays]

Ugh, again this thread get infiltrated by the global warming shit. People think by dismissing Al Gore you dismiss the reason for switching to alternative energy.

And again with the liberals this and liberals that. I guess I'd just rather be a liberal that saves money on energy costs and invests the money wisely than be a conservative that pisses their money away on foreign oil and fossil fuels.

[Dude!]

i think global warming
is a huge hoax

but i'm all for any
energy source that gets
us out of the grip
of mideast oil

[boosterp]

How many sides are there?

15


You guys should welcome a non liberal voice onto this message board to help make it fair and balanced.

Please, next time you label yourself use "neo-con" because you make those of us who are truly conservative look bad.

Whether Gore is right or wrong he did draw attention to global warming which increased the talk as to what is causing it and how do we fix it. By doing this it also increased funding into researching alternatives which is another positive.

[Death Metal Moe]

I can't wait to hear what Jezo's co-workers are talking about around the water cooler next week!

http://1-2knockout.typepad.com/.a/6a00e5505fc4968834011278de8dec28a4-pi

[Gvac]

I just lit a cigarette in my back yard and a U.S. Federal Agent showed up and fined me.

This is getting scary.

[HBox]

I'm putting out CO2 with every breath and this asshole EPA agent is just writing me ticket after ticket.

[boosterp]

Do I get positive credits for my balcony garden and the 80 acres of mostly trees that I own? I could sure use them with as much as I grill. Not to forget, I also need them for that big engine Bronco I own.

[brettmojo]

It's all about the flatulence... End flatulence, end globing warming.

FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING GOD JUST HOLD IT IN!!! I DON'T WANT TO END UP FLOATING AROUND IN THE GIANT WORLD OCEAN WITH KEVIN COSTNER POPPING UP FROM TIME TO TIME TO ASK ME TO PULL SOMETHING OUT OF HIS FISH GILLS!

[TheMojoPin]

It's all about the flatulence... End flatulence, end globing warming.

FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING GOD JUST HOLD IT IN!!! I DON'T WANT TO END UP FLOATING AROUND IN THE GIANT WORLD OCEAN WITH KEVIN COSTNER POPPING UP FROM TIME TO TIME TO ASK ME TO PULL SOMETHING OUT OF HIS FISH GILLS!

SHOOT ALL THE COWS!

[A.J.]

SHOOT ALL THE COWS!

Stupid India.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/60/182552661_8bd36239a4.jpg

[LordJezo]

I take offense to the tag on this thread that I am a Rush worshiper.

I much prefer Savage and Levin fan.

[The Jays]

I think they were trying to be nice to you and not completely associate you with lunatics, but if wish to admit it, fine.

Global warming is an invention of the liberal socialist militant homosexual agenda.

[Ogre]

I think they were trying to be nice to you and not completely associate you with lunatics, but if wish to admit it, fine.

Perez Hilton is an invention of the liberal socialist militant homosexual agenda.

fixed it

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/2d9d49b1a4728770

[The Jays]

No, I had it right the first time. Michael Weiner, er, Savage told me so.

[LordJezo]

Things were pretty bad at the gym today.

Depression everywhere over this bill. Gas expected to jump 58 cents on new taxes alone, electricity bills expected to go up 90%. I was watching some show on cooking on one of the TVs there and someone made a comment on how all that is going to be banned by Obama due to CO2 emissions. Word is that none of the money that will be collected from us will actually go towards anything to help this country but to an international fund for the elite. Sucks.

Conversations eventually went towards population control and extermination but that's a bit too crazy.

[Furtherman]

Things were pretty bad at the gym today.

That's where you're a viking.

[Death Metal Moe]

Conversations eventually went towards population control and extermination but that's a bit too crazy.

You 1st!

[shittles]

Extermination? I pray to god you mean nasty roach problems rather suggesting Obama is going to set up concentration camps.

[epo]

Extermination? I pray to god you mean nasty roach problems rather suggesting Obama is going to set up concentration camps.

I've been asked to populate the first camp. I'm starting with Jezo, Gvac, Gmann and G-baby.

Don't cross me, my pencil is sharp today.

[TheMojoPin]

Who knew that LordOfIron led such off the deep end political discussions while getting PUMPED?!?

[shittles]

Does Jezo have guns tatooed to his biceps and goes POWPOWPOW?

[TheMojoPin]

Does Jezo have guns tatooed to his biceps and goes POWPOWPOW?

Based on the picture he forced on us of his nipple he needs to actually work out at the gym instead of just standing around being fake crazy and trying to sneak a peak up people's shorts.

[The Jays]

Where is this gym where they hold these crazy conspiracy discussions? Usually when I go to a gym I do the elliptical for 30 minutes and then do weights. And when I'm done, I don't come home and comment "Jee, honey, the gym was pretty grim today due to this new congressional bill that passed." Jezo's gym seems about working out how the Illuminati run the world or how 9/11 is an inside job.

What is this "word" that the money will just go to the elite? Are you actually interested in discussing your sources, or do you enjoy dealing in here say?

[LordJezo]

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But even that has it's sources.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7219565.stm

See? Calling for a ban on outdoor heating just to curb global warming. That's just a step away from banning BBQs for the same reason.

We are being shut down and no one wants to do a thing about because Obama is here to protect us.

[TheMojoPin]

Did you hear about that one after the squat thrusts or before the spin class?

[The Jays]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qa1M-srZWVg&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qa1M-srZWVg&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

But even that has it's sources.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7219565.stm

See? Calling for a ban on outdoor heating just to curb global warming. That's just a step away from banning BBQs for the same reason.

We are being shut down and no one wants to do a thing about because Obama is here to protect us.

That's a BBC article about European leaders banning a outdoor heater, something that sounds retarded to begin with. How do you jump from potential European policy to Obama so quickly? You do understand this is North America, right? Oh, you probably think this is Russia because the people at your gym told you so.

[TheMojoPin]

That's a BBC article about European leaders banning a outdoor heater, something that sounds retarded to begin with. How do you jump from potential European policy to Obama so quickly? You do understand this is North America, right? Oh, you probably think this is Russia because the people at your gym told you so.

ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT, D00D! ILLUMINATI! TRILATERAL BILDERBERG LIZARD PEOPLE, BLAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

[LordJezo]

That's a BBC article about European leaders banning a outdoor heater, something that sounds retarded to begin with. How do you jump from potential European policy to Obama so quickly? You do understand this is North America, right? Oh, you probably think this is Russia because the people at your gym told you so.

Is there any difference anymore? We're going towards world UN law. With Obama supporting world taxes and redistribution of US wealth with nonsense like the global poverty act it wont be long until we are forced into going along with other extremists world wide in order to save the planet.

All while China does whatever it damn well feels like and makes all the CO2 it wants in order to fuel it's industry and domiate the globe.

[TheMojoPin]

Tee-hee!

[The Jays]

Is there any difference anymore? We're going towards world UN law. With Obama supporting world taxes and redistribution of US wealth with nonsense like the global poverty act it wont be long until we are forced into going along with other extremists world wide in order to save the planet.

All while China does whatever it damn well feels like and makes all the CO2 it wants in order to fuel it's industry and domiate the globe.

Do you have a sled for that slippery slope?

[styckx]

About China. I'm pretty sure they agreed to work on cutting Carbon emissions like two years ago.

[TooLowBrow]

About China. I'm pretty sure they agreed to work on cutting Carbon emissions like two years ago.

who can understand a thing they say?
:wacko:

[Death Metal Moe]

Do you have a sled for that slippery slope?

Better question: Do you have an opinion some right wing blowhard didn't spoon feed to you?

[Death Metal Moe]

who can understand a thing they say?
:wacko:

They were speaking some language.....I think it was....Asian.

[hammersavage]

Better question: Do you have an opinion some right wing blowhard didn't spoon feed to you?

What's this about blowhard and spoon now?

[TooLowBrow]

They were speaking some language.....I think it was....Asian.

:thumbup:

[beachbum]

They were speaking some language.....I think it was....Asian.

I believe the politically correct term is oriental.

[keithy_19]

That's a BBC article about European leaders banning a outdoor heater, something that sounds retarded to begin with. How do you jump from potential European policy to Obama so quickly? You do understand this is North America, right? Oh, you probably think this is Russia because the people at your gym told you so.

In all fairness, some of Obama's policies really do look like European policies.

[TheMojoPin]

In all fairness, some of Obama's policies really do look like European policies.

Oh, Jesus, God, NO!!! NOT THE EUROPEANS!!!! AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!

[foodcourtdruide]

Oh, Jesus, God, NO!!! NOT THE EUROPEANS!!!! AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!

Europe? Do you mean whore-up?

[TooLowBrow]

Europe? Do you mean whore-up?

more like jew-up

[boosterp]

I believe the politically correct term is oriental.

You mean snoogans.

[The Jays]

In all fairness, some of Obama's policies really do look like European policies.

And In all fairness, some of Bush's were like Stalinist Russia. Because there's an opinion that someone's policies resemble those of another country does not automatically make it true. Jezo referenced a British media outlet that did an article about potential environmental policy. That does not mean "oh, that's the future, it's inevitable because Obama is such an awful leader that he just copies other countries' policies, whether they've been enacted or not." That is the essence of what the opposition says whenever they reference European policy as being Obama's; that he's such an inept leader that he cribs off of other countries and we're all dumb enough to eat it up because we think his wife and daughters are cute, and we're blinded by the reflection off his wash-board abs to see that he's really a communist leading us down the red pinko brick road.

[epo]

I can't decide whether it was a good or bad thing I un-ignored Jezo. Obviously he's retardedly funny, but I might be dumber for having read his drivel.

[underdog]

In all fairness, some of Obama's policies really do look like European policies.

Seriously. Europe is evil.

Health care for all, non-broke car makers, strong money and a train system that works. Boo Europe. Be more like America.

[TheMojoPin]

I kind of want to hire someone to kidnap Keithy and spirit him over to Sweden and then laugh and point as he collapses into a gibbering mess when he realizes where he is.

[A.J.]

I kind of want to hire someone to kidnap Keithy and spirit him over to Sweden and then laugh and point as he collapses into a gibbering mess when he realizes where he is.

Now there's a Stockholm Syndrome!

[Furtherman]

In all fairness, some of Obama's policies really do look like European policies.

I thought you could be saved Keithy, but you're well on your way to Jezoland. Wear your helmet!

[brettmojo]

In all fairness, some of Obama's policies really do look like European policies.
Hopefully it's not by accident.

[underdog]

I thought you could be saved Keithy, but you're well on your way to Jezoland. Wear your helmet!

And bring a towel.

[LordJezo]

Sucks for anyone who is going to try to sell an older house under the new cap and trade laws:

Home Sellers Beware. Having a hard time selling your home? Here’s one more hurdle to jump: all homes sales are conditioned upon an energy audit and a new energy rating assessment and energy labeling program for your home that’s outlined in the Democrats’ bill. And if you thought you could improve your property with a fresh coat of paint and some granite counters? Think again! Now your home will be subjected to a new energy rating assessment and energy labeling program that will penalize you for older windows, original fixtures, and dated appliances. So the Democrats’ bill would bring down the value of your home!

Source (http://republicanleader.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134491)

Oh well, Obama wants housing prices to drop so I suppose it's for the good of the country.

[Death Metal Moe]

You're a fucking board character at this point. You should be restricted to board character and Lolcat threads from now on.

[LordJezo]

You're a fucking board character at this point. You should be restricted to board character and Lolcat threads from now on.

Glad to know you care about the value of housing in this country and economic recovery.

Instead old homes will be labeled as climate change prone and people will stay away from anything that gets a bad rating.

[Death Metal Moe]

Glad to know you care about the value of housing in this country and economic recovery.

Instead old homes will be labeled as climate change prone and people will stay away from anything that gets a bad rating.

Save it for someone who will take your bait douche bag.

[boosterp]

You're a fucking board character at this point. You should be restricted to board character and Lolcat threads from now on.

I have agreed with you for some time. Jezo you dick, why can you not post under normal .net screen name?

[LordJezo]

Save it for someone who will take your bait douche bag.

Heh, now talking about things that Obama wants done is considered bait. I am sure home owners who have their homes labeled energy inefficient simply because they are older will share your view. This is becoming law and the liberals like you refuse to talk about how damaging it's going to be to this country.

[brettmojo]

Source (http://republicanleader.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134491)

http://republicanleader.house.gov

Fair and balanced.

[styckx]

He's merely reading into this bill and adding his opinion.

I mean, if you're all for waving through a 1500 page bill without knowing what kind of shit is buried in it.. Well.. Yeah..

[LordJezo]

Laws like this are already in place, but now it's going nation wide.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2009/06/04/texas-nbc-affiliate-praises-job-creating-ordinance-would-find-negligence-

In Texas if you are deemed a person who is causing climate change you can have criminal penalties brought against you, it will be a misdemeanor to cause global warming.

Scary shit.

Now coming to a neighborhood near you.

[Syd]

Heh, now talking about things that Obama wants done is considered bait. I am sure home owners who have their homes labeled energy inefficient simply because they are older will share your view. This is becoming law and the liberals like you refuse to talk about how damaging it's going to be to this country.

why is that a bad thing? if a home is energy inefficient, why shouldn't a potential buyer be warned of paying exorbitant costs for cooling the house because it has a very old hvac system or because the appliances are extremely old

face it, the american lifestyle can't continue unabated

sprawling suburbs and an insatiable hunger for consumer goods can't go on forever and at some point people need to change and get used to it

the era of installing track lighting in your home (that is 50 miles from your job) and being able to get a $50k loan to buy a load of new electronic garbage is over

its time to reign in the rampant consumerism and live by both your financial and environmental means because you can't be reckless with either

[Syd]

Laws like this are already in place, but now it's going nation wide.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2009/06/04/texas-nbc-affiliate-praises-job-creating-ordinance-would-find-negligence-

In Texas if you are deemed a person who is causing climate change you can have criminal penalties brought against you, it will be a misdemeanor to cause global warming.

Scary shit.

Now coming to a neighborhood near you.

i'm pretty sure in most states you can be held criminally responsible for selling a house that has any sort of structural or electrical failings all the same, same with selling a used car without disclosing if it has been in an accident, or selling any other goods or services under false pretenses

they call it fraud

so yes, if you fraudulently sell something you can be held responsible for your actions

[The Jays]

Sucks for anyone who is going to try to sell an older house under the new cap and trade laws:



Source (http://republicanleader.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134491)

Oh well, Obama wants housing prices to drop so I suppose it's for the good of the country.

Your source is John Boehner's website. That's kinda skewed.

At no point does he reference the sections of the bill that he has issue with, thus, I can't take his word for what it is. From the summary I do know of, the energy audit and efficiency items seems to stem from a nationalization of building code, which is already under way with most states adopting the International Building Code, because local governments are trying to adapt to energy efficiency standards already; this act just takes a step further and wants all governments to adopt the building codes.

One key thing, existing buildings do not get fined, penalized, etc for not meeting current code. That's never how it's worked. All new construction, renovations of a certain percentage of building cost, and additions have to meet the code that existed at the time the building permit was issues.

In terms of buildings losing value for having old inefficient materials, they don't lose value... the ones which meet energy efficiency and sustainable building methods and materials get a higher value that older buildings that do not update fail to receive.

I don't see how you can mandate a seller to do an energy audit on their building before they sell it, that seems like it would tie up the court system with people who want to sell their buildings and did so and got caught.

So, come back to me with some hard facts and citations from the bill itself.

[boosterp]

why is that a bad thing? if a home is energy inefficient, why shouldn't a potential buyer be warned of paying exorbitant costs for cooling the house because it has a very old hvac system or because the appliances are extremely old

face it, the american lifestyle can't continue unabated

sprawling suburbs and an insatiable hunger for consumer goods can't go on forever and at some point people need to change and get used to it

the era of installing track lighting in your home (that is 50 miles from your job) and being able to get a $50k loan to buy a load of new electronic garbage is over

its time to reign in the rampant consumerism and live by both your financial and environmental means because you can't be reckless with either

I love older homes and look forward to buying my next one.

[badmonkey]

Your source is John Boehner's website. That's kinda skewed.

At no point does he reference the sections of the bill that he has issue with, thus, I can't take his word for what it is. From the summary I do know of, the energy audit and efficiency items seems to stem from a nationalization of building code, which is already under way with most states adopting the International Building Code, because local governments are trying to adapt to energy efficiency standards already; this act just takes a step further and wants all governments to adopt the building codes.

One key thing, existing buildings do not get fined, penalized, etc for not meeting current code. That's never how it's worked. All new construction, renovations of a certain percentage of building cost, and additions have to meet the code that existed at the time the building permit was issues.

In terms of buildings losing value for having old inefficient materials, they don't lose value... the ones which meet energy efficiency and sustainable building methods and materials get a higher value that older buildings that do not update fail to receive.

I don't see how you can mandate a seller to do an energy audit on their building before they sell it, that seems like it would tie up the court system with people who want to sell their buildings and did so and got caught.

So, come back to me with some hard facts and citations from the bill itself.

So when nobody had a chance to read the entire thing before it was up for a vote, you expect the people that voted against it to be the ones to justify their opinions, not the ones that blindly voted FOR it? 300 pages of amendments added to the bill in the middle of the night and your complaint is that he hasn't cited the hard facts from the bill itself.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

[The Jays]

So when nobody had a chance to read the entire thing before it was up for a vote, you expect the people that voted against it to be the ones to justify their opinions, not the ones that blindly voted FOR it? 300 pages of amendments added to the bill in the middle of the night and your complaint is that he hasn't cited the hard facts from the bill itself.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

I can't cite the document either! But how can I trust word from Boehner's website compared to what I do know about what the bill does? It would be laughable at best.

[Serpico1103]

Sucks for anyone who is going to try to sell an older house under the new cap and trade laws:



Source (http://republicanleader.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134491)

Oh well, Obama wants housing prices to drop so I suppose it's for the good of the country.

The way I understood your source was that homes would be rated on their energy efficiency. There is no penalty, it just gives people information.
I guess you conservatives always forget that part of a free market system since you love keeping consumers in the dark about corporate activity. BUT for a free market to work it requires perfect information. That is why free markets always fail, because either the information is intentionally hidden or consumers never obtain it.
So, actually, this scary bill, is actually pro-free market.

Tell your bench press buddies.

[boosterp]

The way I understood your source was that homes would be rated on their energy efficiency. There is no penalty, it just gives people information.
I guess you conservatives always forget that part of a free market system since you love keeping consumers in the dark about corporate activity. BUT for a free market to work it requires perfect information. That is why free markets always fail, because either the information is intentionally hidden or consumers never obtain it.
So, actually, this scary bill, is actually pro-free market.

Tell your bench press buddies.

Please quit lumping him in with the rest, he's a neo-con, a ultra conservative douche. This is not to be confused with us progressive conservatives who are more like moderate democrats.

[HBox]

So when nobody had a chance to read the entire thing before it was up for a vote, you expect the people that voted against it to be the ones to justify their opinions, not the ones that blindly voted FOR it? 300 pages of amendments added to the bill in the middle of the night and your complaint is that he hasn't cited the hard facts from the bill itself.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

That would make sense if Boehner didn't call it costly and job-killing. He has no problem making claims about the bill he hasn't read.

[badmonkey]

That would make sense if Boehner didn't call it costly and job-killing. He has no problem making claims about the bill he hasn't read.

I said that he hadn't read "the entire thing". I didn't say he hadn't read any of it. Can anybody that voted for it prove him wrong? Can you?

[keithy_19]

I kind of want to hire someone to kidnap Keithy and spirit him over to Sweden and then laugh and point as he collapses into a gibbering mess when he realizes where he is.

So natiolanized medicine isn't something they have in Europe?

I was commenting on it. I was just stating that his policies do have things in common with some European nations who have socialized healthcare.

[boosterp]

So natiolanized medicine isn't something they have in Europe?

I was commenting on it. I was just stating that his policies do have things in common with some European nations who have socialized healthcare.

Socialized health care cost Germany quite a bit when I was there and they were heading for broke until they revisited some if their social programs and made cuts. This was in the early to mid 90's and I can only imagine how bad it is now.

[HBox]

I said that he hadn't read "the entire thing". I didn't say he hadn't read any of it. Can anybody that voted for it prove him wrong? Can you?

The burden of proof is on him. He's making the claims. I'm not going to disprove an uninformed claim.

[brettmojo]

I said that he hadn't read "the entire thing". I didn't say he hadn't read any of it. Can anybody that voted for it prove him wrong? Can you?
Luckily he read just the parts he didn't like though.

[HBox]

So natiolanized medicine isn't something they have in Europe?

I was commenting on it. I was just stating that his policies do have things in common with some European nations who have socialized healthcare.

What does any of that matter if it works?

[The Jays]

Because Europe is stupid and would make us more Un-American, thus, more stupid.

[TheMojoPin]

So natiolanized medicine isn't something they have in Europe?

I was commenting on it. I was just stating that his policies do have things in common with some European nations who have socialized healthcare.

You're scared of Europe. I want to make you kiss it so you get cooties.

[IMSlacker]

Because Europe is stupid and would make us more Un-American, thus, more stupid.

Europeans smell bad too. This isn't going to make us smell bad, is it?

[keithy_19]

What does any of that matter if it works?

It doesn't matter if it works. I'm just not sure that it's this utopian thing that people like to make it out to be.

It's all happening too fast. If we were to gradually blend it into the health care system we have now it would be better in my opinion.

[The Jays]

How doesn't it matter if it works? Seems to me that if something works then we all win. Is it too socialist for you if we all win?

[underdog]

You're scared of Europe. I want to make you kiss it so you get cooties.

I don't know how people are scared of Europe. Europe fucking rules.

[foodcourtdruide]

I don't know how people are scared of Europe. Europe fucking rules.

I take japan over europe. Japanese tv is so amazing.

[A.J.]

I don't know how people are scared of Europe. Europe fucking rules.

Raise the fist of the metal child!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_IKcMl_a9A&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_IKcMl_a9A&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Dude!]

Raise the fist of the metal child!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_IKcMl_a9A&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_IKcMl_a9A&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

there was a thread on
songs that make
your skin crawl

that belongs on it!

[underdog]

Raise the fist of the metal child!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_IKcMl_a9A&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_IKcMl_a9A&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This was one of my wedding songs.

We walked out to Rock You Like A Hurricane.

It was awesome.

[epo]

It doesn't matter if it works. I'm just not sure that it's this utopian thing that people like to make it out to be.

It's all happening too fast. If we were to gradually blend it into the health care system we have now it would be better in my opinion.

Tell the uninsured working poor that health care reform is "moving too fast".

[Dude!]

This was one of my wedding songs.

We walked out to Rock You Like A Hurricane.

It was awesome.

i assume you were married
in vermont then

[foodcourtdruide]

Tell the uninsured working poor that health care reform is "moving too fast".

If there were 18,000 people a year dying in terrorist attacks we would surrender all rights to the government and glady accept martial law overnight.

[underdog]

i assume you were married
in vermont then

I was married on a cruise ship, sweetie.

[Dude!]

I was married on a cruise ship, sweetie.

cruising...i see
it all makes sense now

[brettmojo]

cruising...i see
it all makes sense now
http://www.boomerangshop.com/dvdcover/imageweb20/BoatTripUnrated20031316_f.jpg???

[keithy_19]

Tell the uninsured working poor that health care reform is "moving too fast".

I was one of them at a time. I take medicine that costs about 3000 dollars a month without insurance.

Should there be thing that are changed about healthcare? Of course. Is socialized healthcare the answer? I don't think so.

[boosterp]

I was one of them at a time. I take medicine that costs about 3000 dollars a month without insurance.

Should there be thing that are changed about healthcare? Of course. Is socialized healthcare the answer? I don't think so.

If not for the VA my medical co-pay with great insurance would be over $200 a month.

[FMJeff]

Coming from the same group of people that use Michael Moore as a christ like figure. I remember when his 9/11 movie came out, people stood up and cheered in the theater when it ended. Media is used as a tool to get what you want, anything on the right is labeled false and is attacked from all sides.

Ever wonder why that is?

[keithy_19]

Ever wonder why that is?

Laziness of politicians?

[FMJeff]

Is there any difference anymore? We're going towards world UN law. With Obama supporting world taxes and redistribution of US wealth with nonsense like the global poverty act it wont be long until we are forced into going along with other extremists world wide in order to save the planet.

All while China does whatever it damn well feels like and makes all the CO2 it wants in order to fuel it's industry and domiate the globe.

Wow. There's conspiracy theories and then there's just the ramblings of a paranoid skitzo...

Yes you're right...saving the planet is bad and countries are ready to give up their sovereignty to the UN.

Although I do agree with you on the chinks...they are a coming...

[FMJeff]

Sucks for anyone who is going to try to sell an older house under the new cap and trade laws:



Source (http://republicanleader.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134491)

Oh well, Obama wants housing prices to drop so I suppose it's for the good of the country.

Source:

http://republicanleader.house.gov/

Ahh yes. The website of the house minority leader. Always a great source for unbiased political reporting.

[FMJeff]

Socialized health care cost Germany quite a bit when I was there and they were heading for broke until they revisited some if their social programs and made cuts. This was in the early to mid 90's and I can only imagine how bad it is now.

Yeah..its so bad they beat us on the list of average life expectancy by about 12 countries...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Doesn't anyone research what they say anymore?

[FMJeff]

It doesn't matter if it works. I'm just not sure that it's this utopian thing that people like to make it out to be.

It's all happening too fast. If we were to gradually blend it into the health care system we have now it would be better in my opinion.

I distinctly remember a Brian Regan bit about Opie & Anthony's change to WNEW that applies to this post...

BTW this is the first time I've ever heard the word fast apply to health care reform.

[FMJeff]

Laziness of politicians?

Generalities like this are not worthy of anyone's time. How does that even apply to what I was responding to? Pay attention, son. I asked "wonder why that is?" in response to Jezo's blanket statement "Media is used as a tool to get what you want, anything on the right is labeled false and is attacked from all sides." Aside from the fact that most cable news is clearly partisan, there is a well balanced mix of democratic/republican and liberal/conservative media outlets in this country. It's not attacked from all sides. Conservatives are attacked by their opponents. It's healthy. It creates debate. It's what separates our system from many other countries and IMHO makes us better people for it.

Both sides hate being out of power and will do/say anything to keep it or regain it. That's what people do. Both sides have agendas and everyone has opponents of those agendas.

Why do people attack conservatives? I'm going to say it has something to do with after eight years of conservative rule over two branches of our government they left our country perceptually worse in almost every indicator then how they received it. How much of that is their fault is open to debate, but I think its safe to say it would be incredibly difficult to argue a theory that conservatives did a good job while in power. In fact, I think the last election basically proved they did not.

But just to address what you said, SOME politicians are lazy, some are corrupt. Some are also committed and hard-working public servants. They're people, subject to the same weaknesses as anyone else. I'm tired of people who sit there and blame all politicians for everything that's bad. How good are you at your job? Do you give 100%? Some of you maybe, some you maybe not. Blame should rest with those who deserve it. For example, the governor who was just exposed for cheating on his wife. I don't care if you cheated on your wife. That's irrelevant. What I do care about is you leaving your office without telling anyone where you're going and not signing over executive powers to your lieutenant governor in case there was a state emergency. That's the kind of irresponsible shit I'd expect from a clerk at McDonalds.

[Serpico1103]

Laziness of politicians?

Nope. An uninterested electorate.
Democracy takes effort. We deserve a dictatorship.

[The Jays]

Eh.

Let's get sorta back on topic with a simple question. To those who don't believe global warming exists, a basic question... do you believe or not believe that as the amount of CO2 increases, the ability to retain heat also increases?

[FMJeff]

Eh.

Let's get sorta back on topic with a simple question. To those who don't believe global warming exists, a basic question... do you believe or not believe that as the amount of CO2 increases, the ability to retain heat also increases?

I'm not a scientist, so I can't say. There are people who are scientists and they say so. There are others who are scientists who say the contrary. The only thing I know for sure is there are alternatives to the burning of fossil fuels that are less expensive economically and environmentally that we should be taking advantage of sooner than later.

The worst thing that ever happened to the environmental movement in this country is Al Gore. This is not to say Al Gore is a liar or a bad person. I think he started his campaign to raise awareness of the debate with the best of intentions...and continues to do so. No, my problem with Al Gore is that he's Al Gore. Instead of working behind the scenes, he chose to become a figurehead of the cause. Figureheads of a cause become the focus of its opponent's attacks, and like witnesses in a jury trial, you better damn make sure yours doesn't have anything on them the opposing counsel can use to discredit them. By selecting himself, a prominent democrat and vice-president to boot, the cause of global warming turned what should be an issue of science into a partisan war. Any science he used to back up his claims could be easily painted by conservatives/republicans as democratic/liberal science, making the job of the opposition that much easier.

It should have been someone else, is all I'm saying. Someone with a scientific background...someone with no political affiliations or aspirations...someone beyond reproach.

Did he deserve his Nobel Peace prize? I really don't think so. The mission to clean up the planet and our lives should have been a no-brainer. If we don't do something, we all die. It's the most important message in the history of our entire species...and yet here we are...in this thread...arguing the science, blasting each other's political affiliations.

How much of this is Al Gore's fault is hard to say. I guess I'll let history decide whether or not to vindicate Al Gore...but for now I wouldn't exactly call this "peace".

[FMJeff]

On a different note, I know Jays's sig pic is of a fez and a cigar, but doesnt it look like an erect penis rocket flying toward a fez?

[The Jays]

Make your own conclusions, big boy. :happy:

[keithy_19]

Generalities like this are not worthy of anyone's time. How does that even apply to what I was responding to? Pay attention, son. I asked "wonder why that is?" in response to Jezo's blanket statement "Media is used as a tool to get what you want, anything on the right is labeled false and is attacked from all sides." Aside from the fact that most cable news is clearly partisan, there is a well balanced mix of democratic/republican and liberal/conservative media outlets in this country. It's not attacked from all sides. Conservatives are attacked by their opponents. It's healthy. It creates debate. It's what separates our system from many other countries and IMHO makes us better people for it.

Both sides hate being out of power and will do/say anything to keep it or regain it. That's what people do. Both sides have agendas and everyone has opponents of those agendas.

Why do people attack conservatives? I'm going to say it has something to do with after eight years of conservative rule over two branches of our government they left our country perceptually worse in almost every indicator then how they received it. How much of that is their fault is open to debate, but I think its safe to say it would be incredibly difficult to argue a theory that conservatives did a good job while in power. In fact, I think the last election basically proved they did not.

But just to address what you said, SOME politicians are lazy, some are corrupt. Some are also committed and hard-working public servants. They're people, subject to the same weaknesses as anyone else. I'm tired of people who sit there and blame all politicians for everything that's bad. How good are you at your job? Do you give 100%? Some of you maybe, some you maybe not. Blame should rest with those who deserve it. For example, the governor who was just exposed for cheating on his wife. I don't care if you cheated on your wife. That's irrelevant. What I do care about is you leaving your office without telling anyone where you're going and not signing over executive powers to your lieutenant governor in case there was a state emergency. That's the kind of irresponsible shit I'd expect from a clerk at McDonalds.

I didn't really mean my post...I just kind of typed it cause I was feeling lazy...I was projecting. Sorry.

[LordJezo]

Just got back from a tea party in Easton, PA.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5623/taxj.jpg
(crappy pic, was low light on a pocket cam)

People are furious over this bill. Riots are going to be started in the street. Hopefully this movement keeps up and Washington takes notice to a nation angry at what they are doing.

[Serpico1103]

Just got back from a tea party in Easton, PA.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5623/taxj.jpg
(crappy pic, was low light on a pocket cam)

People are furious over this bill. Riots are going to be started in the street. Hopefully this movement keeps up and Washington takes notice to a nation angry at what they are doing.

I hope there are unlawful riots and they are treated like criminals, maybe sent to a foreign country and waterboarded.

[epo]

Just got back from a tea party in Easton, PA.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5623/taxj.jpg
(crappy pic, was low light on a pocket cam)

People are furious over this bill. Riots are going to be started in the street. Hopefully this movement keeps up and Washington takes notice to a nation angry at what they are doing.

Looks like there was alot of diversity in the crowd.

[HBox]

There's a tea party in my town tomorrow and I have nothing to do. I am very tempted to go.

[LordJezo]

I hope there are unlawful riots and they are treated like criminals, maybe sent to a foreign country and waterboarded.

With this administration it wouldn't be surprising to see any sort of dissent be treated in the same way the protesters were in Iran.

[TheMojoPin]

With this administration it wouldn't be surprising to see any sort of dissent be treated in the same way the protesters were in Iran.

Based on what?

[lleeder]

Based on what?

Random speculation?

[Hottub]

Based on what?

Rush's last broadcast?

[LordJezo]

Based on what?

We now live in a world where ambulance drivers are beaten for trying to get patients to hospitals. It's not a far stretch to think that people who talk out against the leadership of this country will be shot down in the streets.

[Gvac]

Jezo's dead on with this one.

Admit you're wrong, gang.

[TheMojoPin]

We now live in a world where ambulance drivers are beaten for trying to get patients to hospitals. It's not a far stretch to think that people who talk out against the leadership of this country will be shot down in the streets.

You're so pretty.

[LordJezo]

There is not much now on the radar that will show what is happening to the republicans as much of it is not covered by the media, but it is happening and Obama is preparing to strike down all that oppose him.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/guard-units-train-for-militia-attacks.html

Anti tax protests could be considered propaganda and as you can read the military is training to fight against it.

[The Jays]

We also live in a world where drug addicts get treatment, so it's not a far stretch to think that Obama will enslave us all and put us in pods to generate electricity with our body heat while being treated for addiction to prescription drugs from Obamacare.

[epo]

There is not much now on the radar that will show what is happening to the republicans as much of it is not covered by the media, but it is happening and Obama is preparing to strike down all that oppose him.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/guard-units-train-for-militia-attacks.html

Anti tax protests could be considered propaganda and as you can read the military is training to fight against it.

The manner is which you comprehend data is so off the reservation that its almost intriguing.

[The Jays]

I think that Obama is trying to recreate the events that brought Senator Palpatine into power over the galaxy here in America. Both were senators, both were elected to executive office, coincidence???

[Serpico1103]

With this administration it wouldn't be surprising to see any sort of dissent be treated in the same way the protesters were in Iran.

Or the same way the last administration treated American citizens, by detaining them illegally without trial. Ah, the good ole days of GWB when trials were unnecessary.

[shittles]

Finally someone has the courage to say publically that we are suffering under a regime here in America just as bad as the one in Tehran. I salute you, Lord Jezo.

[LordJezo]

Finally someone has the courage to say publically that we are suffering under a regime here in America just as bad as the one in Tehran. I salute you, Lord Jezo.

Don't misquote me, I never said such a thing. We should be happy we live here and not Iran. America is a pretty dandy place. All I was saying is that it's getting scarier for certain groups of people, there is more brutality and hate towards conservatism than in quite a while. Almost all media is against us and we are forced to hide like Christians in the times of the Romans in order not to be persecuted publicly.

[epo]

Don't misquote me, I never said such a thing. We should be happy we live here and not Iran. America is a pretty dandy place. All I was saying is that it's getting scarier for certain groups of people, there is more brutality and hate towards conservatism than in quite a while. Almost all media is against us and we are forced to hide like Christians in the times of the Romans in order not to be persecuted publicly.

When you go into hiding, don't hide in my neighborhood. I've already agreed to report all of those right-wing evil doers to the proper authorities.

[sailor]

You're so pretty.

homosexual!!

[shittles]

Ok, let me then salute you, sir, for having the courage to compare Obama's treatment of dissenters with the Roman Empire's. Brilliant analysis since both target Christians.

[Syd]

Or the same way the last administration treated American citizens, by detaining them illegally without trial. Ah, the good ole days of GWB when trials were unnecessary.

I wonder what would have happened if Fox News had figured out how much money they could make off of the LordJezos of the world and started to highlight the stuff Bush did. I mean after all, half of the shit he did would make Louis XIV blush. It sucks no one figured out the cashcow until now and it's way, way after all the evil has been done.

[The Jays]

Don't misquote me, I never said such a thing. We should be happy we live here and not Iran. America is a pretty dandy place. All I was saying is that it's getting scarier for certain groups of people, there is more brutality and hate towards conservatism than in quite a while. Almost all media is against us and we are forced to hide like Christians in the times of the Romans in order not to be persecuted publicly.

Brutality and hate towards conservatism?? Are you shitting me? Are people beating up or shooting conservatives? Are they silencing their ideas? Not that I can tel, but then again, I haven't heard any solutions or good ideas about how to get out of this recession, how to reform healthcare, or how to get us off non-renewable energy from the conservative side. All I hear is bitch bitch bitch about the "liberals", which is basically anyone who doesn't agree with the pro-life anti-science tax-free war-mongering adulterous embezzlement portion of the Republican party. I don't think anyone is against smaller government, less taxes, less invasion into our private lives, less manipulation of the free markets... I just think everyone thinks the current version of the party which is suppose to promote those key principals is run by retards, promoted by mongoloids fed by theories from morons.

[scottinnj]

When you go into hiding, don't hide in my neighborhood. I've already agreed to report all of those right-wing evil doers to the proper authorities.

So this could be the sequel to Sophie's Choice:

Myself and LordJezo hole up in your neighborhood to hide from the Obama death squads.

Who gets reported? Scottinnj or LordJezo?


Epo's Choice!

[keithy_19]

So this could be the sequel to Sophie's Choice:

Myself and LordJezo hole up in your neighborhood to hide from the Obama death squads.

Who gets reported? Scottinnj or LordJezo?


Epo's Choice!

He flips a Nero/Obama coin. If it lands Nero, Jezo. Obama, you.

[TooLowBrow]

He flips a Nero/Obama coin. If it lands Nero, Jezo. Obama, you.

reading that makes me want an oreo

[LordJezo]

Wow.

Global Warming is as bad as Hitler.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6658672.ece

[Furtherman]

Global Warming is as bad as Hitler.

No shit, its got the Icebergs worried!

[TheMojoPin]

That's not what he said at all, Jezo.

[Dan 'Hampton]

That's not what he said at all, Jezo.

No but that's apparently what he "likens" it too.

[Dan 'Hampton]

No shit, its got the Icebergs worried!

I like this.

[TheMojoPin]

No but that's apparently what he "likens" it too.

Apparently the "likening" comes from him saying that he thinks people need a rallying leader a la Churchill in WWII to lead the way in this issue.

OH MY. HEAVENS TO BETSY.

[Dan 'Hampton]

Apparently the "likening" comes from him saying that he thinks people need a rallying leader a la Churchill in WWII to lead the way in this issue.

OH MY. HEAVENS TO BETSY.

Don't bitch to me. Read the title.
Too bad Al Gore never had the platform to do that, or directly influence those at the top.
Oh wait...

[Death Metal Moe]

That's not what he said at all, Jezo.

Why do you even bother Mojo? I mean that seriously. He just posts shock shit now and never explains himself. You're never going to get in an actual discussion with him because he won't engage you, he just plants a seed and walks away.

[TheMojoPin]

Don't bitch to me.

I'll bitch to whoever the fuck I want to and you'll sit there and take it.

TAKE IT GOOD AND HARD.

[Dan 'Hampton]

I'll bitch to whoever the fuck I want to and you'll sit there and take it.

TAKE IT GOOD AND HARD.

Calm down cubbie.

[TheMojoPin]

Shut up and take it.

[keithy_19]

That's not what he said at all, Jezo.

I was going to post that article, but it really didn't live up to the title. At all.

[LordJezo]

he just plants a seed and walks away.

A guy at the gym says that same thing. I'll get someone going in the locker room and leave as some huge political rant starts and then the other guy I am with will stand there and continue to discussion.