Cambridge Professor Arrested After "Breaking In" to His Own Home

[ChrisTheCop]

Weird. No thread on Obama's pal and his altercation with police.
Maybe cause the prez comes out looking bad on this one?

[TheMojoPin]

Weird. No thread on Obama's pal and his altercation with police.
Maybe cause the prez comes out looking bad on this one?

He does?

It would be pretty impressive to come off worse than a cop who arrests someone for being in their own house.

[underdog]

Weird. No thread on Obama's pal and his altercation with police.
Maybe cause the prez comes out looking bad on this one?

I had no idea that it happened in my town until today.

I didn't even think Cambridge cops were allowed to use even the littlest bit of force here.

[ChrisTheCop]

He does?

It would be pretty impressive to come off worse than a cop who arrests someone for being in their own house.

Way to read the story.

You too can be President.

[sailor]

Way to read the story.

You too can be President.

if there's no link, i assume there's no story.

[ChrisTheCop]

I had no idea that it happened in my town until today.

I didn't even think Cambridge cops were allowed to use even the littlest bit of force here.

There was no force. The guy was arrested, not for breaking into his house, but for over reacting and challenging the cops who had responded to the 911 call after the fact.

And Obama, very Vice-presidentially, says I dont know all the facts, but it's racist. lol.

[ChrisTheCop]

if there's no link, i assume there's no story.

Way to stay informed. If it's not on RonFez.net, it didnt happen?

[sailor]

Way to stay informed. If it's not on RonFez.net, it didnt happen?

if it was important there would be a thread or at least a link.

[mikeyboy]

There was no force. The guy was arrested, not for breaking into his house, but for over reacting and challenging the cops who had responded to the 911 call after the fact.

And Obama, very Vice-presidentially, says I dont know all the facts, but it's racist. lol.

Well, no he didn't exactly. The exact quote is this:


"I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played," Obama said Wednesday night while taking questions after a White House news conference. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/harvard.gates.interview/index.html)

Probably not the best thing to say or the best way to word whatever he meant, but it's not the way you characterize it.

[epo]

There was no force. The guy was arrested, not for breaking into his house, but for over reacting and challenging the cops who had responded to the 911 call after the fact.

And Obama, very Vice-presidentially, says I dont know all the facts, but it's racist. lol.

Its always sounded like a story of two assholes to me.
And did you see the press conference last night? Obama didn't call the cop racist, rather he tried to give some context to the racial element of the story.

[ChrisTheCop]

Well, no he didn't exactly. The exact quote is this:



Probably not the best thing to say or the best way to word whatever he meant, but it's not the way you characterize it.

Its always sounded like a story of two assholes to me.
And did you see the press conference last night? Obama didn't call the cop racist, rather he tried to give some context to the racial element of the story.

Well.. he says "I dont know the whole story" but then continues to pass judgement on the cop, because why not? he's just a cop. And cops are racist right? Placing a racial element on a story that has none is pretty prejudicial, in my opinion. If this had been Iran threatening Saudi Arabia and he had the same amount of info, he mightve said, "I dont have all the facts and it's too early for me to comment. But I certainly am looking into this and will comment accordingly at the correct time." But no, it's just a small town police sgt so he's obviously wrong.

The general (internet) public is cringing over this one..I'm not surprised RF.net is supporting it.

Or, as my original comment implied, ignoring it.

[mikeyboy]

Well.. he says "I dont know the whole story" but then continues to pass judgement on the cop, because why not? he's just a cop. And cops are racist right? Placing a racial element on a story that has none is pretty prejudicial, in my opinion. If this had been Iran threatening Saudi Arabia and he had the same amount of info, he mightve said, "I dont have all the facts and it's too early for me to comment. But I certainly am looking into this and will comment accordingly at the correct time." But no, it's just a small town police sgt so he's obviously wrong.

Passing judgment on the cop may be short-sighted, but you're adding more of a racial element to it than actually appears to be there.


The general (internet) public is cringing over this one..I'm not surprised RF.net is supporting it.

I'm not supporting it at all. I'm objecting to your insertion of the "racial" angle.

[ChrisTheCop]

This article, toward the end, describes the sergeant's story. (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/cambridge_sgt_d.html)

[TheMojoPin]

Nobody has to "add" a racial element to this: it's an inherrently racial issue from start to finish. What are the odds this happens to a white guy of the same stature, age and appearance in the same type of neighborhood? It's about as racial as racial can get from the lady calling it in to the professor being fucking furious for being put into that position in his own home clearly only because of his skin color. It's basically impossible for this to NOT be racial. Anyone dancing around it trying to say race had nothing to do with it is being willfully naive. Race had EVERYTHING to do with it.

I do actually feel bad for the cop to a degree because he's ultimately stuck in the middle. I understand totally why the professor is so outraged and why so much of it is directed at the cop but ultimately the person everyone should be pissed at is the lady who called it in. Even though her call was moronic, the cop was just responding to it, though arresting Gates after seeing idea is ridiculous and unacceptable. Once he sees the ID, why not just walk away? Of course someone is going to be pissed for being accused of breaking into their own home.

[ChrisTheCop]

Passing judgment on the cop may be short-sighted, but you're adding more of a racial element to it than actually appears to be there.



I'm not supporting it at all. I'm objecting to your insertion of the "racial" angle.

Wait. What? I inserted race?? uhh...no, I'm commenting on the president inserting race.
I agree there was no racial motive to the sergeant's actions....but the prez DEFINITELY made it a race issue.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/07/22/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5181436.shtml

[mikeyboy]

Nobody has to "add" a racial element to this: it's an inherrently racial issue from start to finish. What are the odds this happens to a white guy of the same stature, age and appearance in the same type of neighborhood? It's about as racial as racial can get from the lady calling it in to the cop pushing the issue to the professor being fucking furious for being put into that position clearly only because of his skin color. It's basically impossible for this to NOT be racial. Anyone dancing around it trying to say race had nothing to do with it is being willfully naive. Race had EVERYTHING to do with it.

I'm not saying it was or it wasn't. I'm merely commenting on Chris' characterization of the statements by the President.

[ChrisTheCop]

Nobody has to "add" a racial element to this: it's an inherrently racial issue from start to finish. What are the odds this happens to a white guy of the same stature, age and appearance in the same type of neighborhood? It's about as racial as racial can get from the lady calling it in to the cop pushing the issue to the professor being fucking furious for being put into that position clearly only because of his skin color. It's basically impossible for this to NOT be racial. Anyone dancing around it trying to say race had nothing to do with it is being willfully naive. Race had EVERYTHING to do with it.

LOL!!! I can always count on you Mojo.:lol::lol::lol:

[sailor]

This article, toward the end, describes the sergeant's story. (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/cambridge_sgt_d.html)

after reading his half of the story, sounds like the prof was a dick. granted, the other side is sure to be different. i also think the obama statement was out of line.

i can't say whether or not it was racial or not, what went down. mojo, you really don't think cops would be called if a white guy was jimmying open a front door? sweet, i might have a new career!

[ChrisTheCop]

Damn. This started way too late. I'm already late for work.
I look forward to the upcoming comments. I shall respond to them at a more appropriate time.

Now, I gotta go help only white people.

See ya!!

[mikeyboy]

Wait. What? I inserted race?? uhh...no, I'm commenting on the president inserting race.
I agree there was no racial motive to the sergeant's actions....but the prez DEFINITELY made it a race issue.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/07/22/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5181436.shtml

Seriously?

Your quote:
And Obama, very Vice-presidentially, says I dont know all the facts, but it's racist. lol.

The President's quote:

I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played

You don't see the difference? Obama criticized the actions of the police, and I agree that making that statement without knowing the facts was a mistake. You outright claim that President stated that the officer's actions were racist. As I said, the President saying anything about race probably wasn't the best idea, but you are still mis-characterizing his statements.

[Furtherman]

Guys! Guys!

The more we bother Chris with this stuff, the more white people die.

Let him be!

[TheMojoPin]

i can't say whether or not it was racial or not, what went down. mojo, you really don't think cops would be called if a white guy was jimmying open a front door? sweet, i might have a new career!

An older white guy who is dressed like Gates in that neighborhood? Odds are nobody is paying any attention to him enough in the first place to call the cops on him because he's having trouble getting into his home. To me that's what shows that this is a racial issue: not the cops' actions but that the neighbor called it in in the first place. I don't think the cop acted on any kind of racial issue: he's just responding to a call, nor do I think how it played out between him and Gates was racially charged. I just personally think it was ridiculous for him to arrest Gates after identification was shown that proved that Gates' home was his own. Gates was no doubt heated and likely said some things he ideally shouldn't have said, but the officer has the most power to instantly defuse that situation by simply walking away once identification has been provided. Why escalate the situation further? What's the point once it's clear that that is Gates' home? It should be obvious to anyone why Gates would be furious. That's not license for Gates to just go nuts and do something ridiculous like attacking the officer (which didn't happen), but if he's ranting and chewing out the officer, yeah, it sucks but in the end isn't better just to end it by leaving as opposed to willfully making it worse by arresting the guy? What's the point? I don't see how that's anything but a stupid decision on top of other stupid decisions already made by the people involved.

[TheMojoPin]

LOL!!! I can always count on you Mojo.:lol::lol::lol:

And we can always count on you to play the passive aggressive victim regardless of the issue and dismiss any disagreement as some kind of attack or "hatred."

[sailor]

Seriously?

Your quote:


The President's quote:



You don't see the difference? Obama criticized the actions of the police, and I agree that making that statement without knowing the facts was a mistake. You outright claim that President stated that the officer's actions were racist. As I said, the President saying anything about race probably wasn't the best idea, but you are still mis-characterizing his statements.

this is a better quote that supports chris more:

what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.

that's pretty darn close to implying it was racist.

[sailor]

cool, i'm gonna wear a suit and break into houses and no one will call the cops. you're ingenious, mojo! i'll cut you in for, say, 10%?

[underdog]

But no, it's just a small town police sgt so he's obviously wrong.

Cambridge is pretty large for New England.

Also, this stuff should be spun off into another thread.

[TheMojoPin]

this is a better quote that supports chris more:



that's pretty darn close to implying it was racist.

Or potentially racially charged.

What Obama stated IS a fact and does need to be considered when something like this occurs. We can't pretend like this is a colorblind society.

[TheMojoPin]

cool, i'm gonna wear a suit and break into houses and no one will call the cops. you're ingenious, mojo! i'll cut you in for, say, 10%?

My God, I want to inflict pain on you so badly.

[sailor]

An older white guy who is dressed like Gates in that neighborhood? Odds are nobody is paying any attention to him enough in the first place to call the cops on him because he's having trouble getting into his home. To me that's what shows that this is a racial issue

cool, i'm gonna wear a suit and break into houses and no one will call the cops. you're ingenious, mojo! i'll cut you in for, say, 10%?

My God, I want to inflict pain on you so badly.

how did i misread your quote?

[HBox]

this is a better quote that supports chris more:



that's pretty darn close to implying it was racist.

And it's true.

[sailor]

And it's true.

never said it wasn't. but, his saying that is implying the cop was in the wrong, without facts.

look at a different race angle: what if bush was still president and had said "well, i don't know the facts, but a lot of burglaries are done by black folk." do you not see how that is wrong? i will now wait for mojo to say one example of bias is ok, but not the other.

[TheMojoPin]

how did i misread your quote?

Completely and totally.

I never said he was wearing a suit and I never said that any well-dressed white person actually breaking into someone else's house would always get away with it. There's typically a huge difference between someone trying to break into another perosn's house and someone trying to get into their own house through the front door and having trouble doing so in the middle of the day.

[HBox]

never said it wasn't. but, his saying that is implying the cop was in the wrong, without facts.

I don't think he was implying. He was stating a fact, like it's something to be concerned about. It's not a huge jump to suspect that.

[TheMojoPin]

never said it wasn't. but, his saying that is implying the cop was in the wrong, without facts.

No, he's saying that he thinks the cop was ultimately in the wrong regardless of whether or not race was involved because Gates was arrested. Even the officer says the situation reached the point it did only because Gates was "beligerent." OK, and...? Who ISN'T going to be beligerent when being accused of breaking into their own home and having the cops called on them? What could Gates possibly say that would make arresting him out of his home seem like a good idea? I'm not saying that getting yelled at by someone isn't shitty: again, the officer was just responding to a call, but in the end it's pretty clear the much smarter decision is to just leave after everything has been clarified. Arresting Gates out of his home for being "beligerent" given the circumstances is ultimately a stupid decision.

[sailor]

No, he's saying that he thinks the cop was ultimately in the wrong regardless of whether or not race was involved because Gates was arrested. Even the officer says the situation reached the point it did only because Gates was "beligerent." OK, and...? Who ISN'T going to be beligerent when being accused of breaking into their own home and having the cops called on them? What could Gates possibly say that would make arresting him out of his home seem like a good idea? I'm not saying that getting yelled at by someone isn't shitty: again, the officer was just responding to a call, but in the end it's pretty clear the much smarter decision is to just leave after everything has been clarified. Arresting Gates out of his home for being "beligerent" given the circumstances is ultimately a stupid decision.

read my expanded remark.

[IMSlacker]

I've locked myself out of the house before and broke in. I didn't get arrested. I am also white.

I wonder if underdog has any experiences with this.

[angrymissy]

There was no force. The guy was arrested, not for breaking into his house, but for over reacting and challenging the cops who had responded to the 911 call after the fact.

And Obama, very Vice-presidentially, says I dont know all the facts, but it's racist. lol.

That's not what he said.

"I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played"

[TheMojoPin]

never said it wasn't. but, his saying that is implying the cop was in the wrong, without facts.

look at a different race angle: what if bush was still president and had said "well, i don't know the facts, but a lot of burglaries are done by black folk." do you not see how that is wrong? i will now wait for mojo to say one example of bias is ok, but not the other.

Because Obama didn't say anything that's even remotely the equivalent of your hypothetical. What he brought up is in regards to a specific issue that has been proven time and time again: that certain non-white groups face far more disproportinate unjustified and unwarranted police attention even when they're not doing anything wrong. That's nothing like a broad, vague, out of context statement like "a lot of burglaries are done by black folks" since "a lot" of burglaries are also committed by every other ethnic group as well. Your hypothetical is based out of playing on the fears (contrary to the information available) that more criminals are likely to be black or that most crimes are likely to be committed by blacks. Obama was referring to what has long been an established fact and what MUST be considered when these type of situations occur. That's not saying that it is automatically a racially motivated action on the part of the officer, but the long history of "being guilty of being black" that is hugley disproportionate to whites in similar socioeconomic situations must be considered.

[angrymissy]

I think both sides are wrong here.

The guy shouldn't have flipped out, but I can understand why he was pissed.

The cops could have just ignored his flipping out and left after they saw his id instead of arresting him for "disturbing the peace" in his own home.

[TheMojoPin]

I think both sides are wrong here.

The guy shouldn't have flipped out, but I can understand why he was pissed.

The cops could have just ignored his flipping out and left after they saw his id instead of arresting him for "disturbing the peace" in his own home.

Right. I understand why Gates was pissed, but ideally he shouldn't have chewed out the officer, and even though he did the officer exercised VERY poor judgement in escalating it even further by opting to arrest Gates.

They should both team up and throw a rock through the window of the lady who called it in.

[brettmojo]

Black or white it's my experience you can't be a belligerent asshole to cops.

To expect cops in the presence of a belligerent individual to just turn around and leave him in that state is completely fucking stupid and if something was to happen, say the guy flipped out on one of his neighbors thinking they called the cops or whatever, then the cops would then be in trouble for that for not diffusing the situation in the first place. If they couldn't get him to calm down they had no choice but to arrest him.

[angrymissy]

I'd have to see just how belligerent he was. There are 2 nutbars that live across the street from me and the cops are there all the time, and I see them laughing shaking their heads while you hear them screaming from inside the house.

(yes, I play little old lady and peer through the curtains to see what's going on)

[TheMojoPin]

Black or white it's my experience you can't be a belligerent asshole to cops.

To expect cops in the presence of a belligerent individual to just turn around and leave him in that state is completely fucking stupid and if something was to happen, say the guy flipped out on one of his neighbors thinking they called the cops or whatever, then the cops would then be in trouble for that for not diffusing the situation in the first place. If they couldn't get him to calm down they had no choice but to arrest him.

How is arresting him defsuing the situation? Anyone with an iota of common sense should realize that it's just going to make things worse.

Besides, if he was a threat to himself or others, why wouldn't the officer state that he was in the report? It's not an officer's job to get people back to being calm: there's varying degrees of being pissed. If Gates showed anything that indicated he was potentially going to hurt someone the officer would have noted it because it would have gone further to justifying the arrest. For better or for worse, part of a police officer's job IS to take shit from angry people. A lot of people are going to be agitated when dealing with the police and they can't arrest everyone in those situations. As of right now nothing has been shown to justify arresting Gates out of his own after he presented identification.

[sailor]

Because Obama didn't say anything that's even remotely the equivalent of your hypothetical. What he brought up is in regards to a specific issue that has been proven time and time again: that certain non-white groups face far more disproportinate unjustified and unwarranted police attention even when they're not doing anything wrong. That's nothing like a broad, vague, out of context statement like "a lot of burglaries are done by black folks" since "a lot" of burglaries are also committed by every other ethnic group as well. Your hypothetical is based out of playing on the fears (contrary to the information available) that more criminals are likely to be black or that most crimes are likely to be committed by blacks. Obama was referring to what has long been an established fact and what MUST be considered when these type of situations occur. That's not saying that it is automatically a racially motivated action on the part of the officer, but the long history of "being guilty of being black" that is hugley disproportionate to whites in similar socioeconomic situations must be considered.

i could have put the majority of burglaries (as i believe that's the case). and everything you said could just as easily be applied to someone thinking a black man is breaking and entering. it's profiling either way.

in effect what you're saying is police profile, and we must reverse-profile them by taking that fact into account.

[brettmojo]

How is arresting him defsuing the situation? Anyone with an iota of common sense should realize that it's just going to make things worse.

Besides, if he was a threat to himself or others, why wouldn't the officer state that he was in the report? It's not an officer's job to get people back to being calm: there's varying degrees of being pissed. If Gates showed anything that indicated he was potentially going to hurt someone the officer would have noted it because it would have gone further to justifying the arrest. For better or for worse, part of a police officer's job IS to take shit from angry people. A lot of people are going to be agitated when dealing with the police and they can't arrest everyone in those situations. As of right now nothing has been shown to justify arresting Gates out of his own after he presented identification.
Has there been a word for word account of what happened made public?

[Furtherman]

Black or white it's my experience you can't be a belligerent asshole to cops.

Yep. It doesn't matter if you're in a wheelchair, the cops will arrest you if you keep yelling at them. And I've seen this happen to a wheelchair bound moron who wouldn't shut his mouth.


They should both team up and throw a rock through the window of the lady who called it in.

Yea, what about this NEIGHBOR? She probably knew a black man lived in that house. What the hell was SHE thinking?

[Furtherman]

(yes, I play little old lady and peer through the curtains to see what's going on)

Ya lace-curtain Irish!!!

[Bellyfullasnot]

I'm more surprised that the President of The United States of America commented on this.

I was under the impression that the President was too involved with the "big picture" to comment on a matter such as this. I guess a statement regarding any of the line of duty police deaths will be released soon.

[IMSlacker]

I'm more surprised that the President of The United States of America commented on this.

I was under the impression that the President was too involved with the "big picture" to comment on a matter such as this. I guess a statement regarding any of the line of duty police deaths will be released soon.

He was asked about it during a press conference. He didn't issue a statement. But, it would probably have been smarter not to have just said that he didn't know enough facts to comment on the situation.

[TheMojoPin]

in effect what you're saying is police profile, and we must reverse-profile them by taking that fact into account.

You're talking like profiling of non-whites for crimes and taking into consideration the history of profiling by the police are the same thing. They're not because of the huge differences in the power dynamics involved. The police are the only ones who can be in the position of authority of a police officer and use that authority to profile. I am in no way saying that every police officer should be "profiled" as a racist. What I am saying and have been clearly saying is that in cases where the circumstances are similar to this that the history of profiling must be at least considered, but that doesn't mean that all or most police officers are racists or racially motivated. The extra scruitiny does need to be placed on police officers, just as it should over pretty much everything, because of the special powers and responsibilities that they have over us.

i could have put the majority of burglaries (as i believe that's the case).

Per the FBI in 2005: (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_43.html)

Burglary: Total - 217,894 White - 151,757 Black - 62,045

[Bellyfullasnot]

He was asked about it during a press conference. He didn't issue a statement. But, it would probably have been smarter not to have just said that he didn't know enough facts to comment on the situation.

Exactly:clap:

[topless_mike]

the police report said that gates refused to show his id.
i would have arrested him, too. if he would have showed id, then ran his mouth, i cant fault the cops for arresting him, although i'm not sure i would have personally. who the fuck is he to talk like that.

[sailor]

You're talking like profiling of non-whites for crimes and taking into consideration the history of profiling by the police are the same thing. They're not because of the huge differences in the power dynamics involved. The police are the only ones who can be in the position of authority of a police officer and use that authority to profile. I am in no way saying that every police officer should be "profiled" as a racist. What I am saying and have been clearly saying is that in cases where the circumstances are similar to this that the history of profiling must be at least considered, but that doesn't mean that all or most police officers are racists or racially motivated. The extra scruitiny does need to be placed on police officers, just as it should over pretty much everything, because of the special powers and responsibilities that they have over us.



Per the FBI in 2005: (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_43.html)

Burglary: Total - 217,894 White - 151,757 Black - 62,045

cool, i stand corrected on the numbers, but it doesn't affect my argument.

and omg, the fuckin' president isn't in a position of power to profile?? which was my point. it's his damn quote we're discussing.

[TheMojoPin]

the police report said that gates refused to show his id.
i would have arrested him, too. if he would have showed id, then ran his mouth, i cant fault the cops for arresting him, although i'm not sure i would have personally. who the fuck is he to talk like that.

He initially refused, but eventually showed his ID. The arrest came after that. And "who the fuck is he?" He's the guy in his own home pissed that he's being accused of being a burglar and has ultimately done as the officer asked and produced his identification. He "ran his mouth," as you put it, then showed his ID, then "ran it" some more.

[TheMojoPin]

and omg, the fuckin' president isn't in a position of power to profile?? which was my point. it's his damn quote we're discussing.

He was repeating a fact and saying it's something that people will take into account in these type of siutations. He specifically said that he doesn't know if race played any factor in this...but if it did here's why it may have and here's why many people will suspect that race may have played a factor. Him being the President doesn't erase the power dynamic that police have over the public. Obama is not in the same position of power that the police have in regards of the relationship between the police and the public and how they can act on their power.

[sailor]

He was repeating a fact and saying it's something that people will take into account in these type of siutations. He specifically said that he doesn't know if race played any factor in this...but if it did here's why it may have and here's why many people will suspect that race may have played a factor. Him being the President doesn't erase the power dynamic that police have over the public.

to me he was profiling the cop, from a position of power, and implying guilt.

[dino_electropolis]

This is all very simple.

A cop tells u to stop running ur mouth or face arrest, then u either stop runnin ur mouth or u get arrested.

I think the true racist here is the prof who felt he was being hassled by the man. When it wad cleared up he should have thanked the cops for doing thier job by preventing a possible burglary.

Would this prof have been happy if the cops saw a black guy breaking into his house and DO NOTHING bc they knew a black guy lives in that house?

It's all bullshit. I ain't no fan of cops, but loud mouth idiots who look for racism should hurry up and die already

[topless_mike]

He initially refused, but eventually showed his ID. The arrest came after that. And "who the fuck is he?" He's the guy in his own home pissed that he's being accused of being a burglar and has ultimately done as the officer asked and produced his identification. He "ran his mouth," as you put it, then showed his ID, then "ran it" some more.

oh, the report said different. i'll have to go back and re-read it.

why would you initially refuse? that only makes matters worse.
you should your id, and leave it at. he was arrested for being an asshole.

if i break into my house and the cops come, then i show my id right away, not talk shit.

thinking about it now, im glad his ass was cuffed.

[TheMojoPin]

to me he was profiling the cop, from a position of power, and implying guilt.

Guilt of what? He said he acted stupidly in arresting Gates after Gates proved who he was and that the home was his.

[topless_mike]

This is all very simple.

A cop tells u to stop running ur mouth or face arrest, then u either stop runnin ur mouth or u get arrested.

I think the true racist here is the prof who felt he was being hassled by the man. When it wad cleared up he should have thanked the cops for doing thier job by preventing a possible burglary.

Would this prof have been happy if the cops saw a black guy breaking into his house and DO NOTHING bc they knew a black guy lives in that house?

It's all bullshit. I ain't no fan of cops, but loud mouth idiots who look for racism should hurry up and die already

+1
thank you.

[sailor]

kinda reminds me of the franklyn story that led to a big blow-up between him and chris.

[sailor]

Guilt of what? He said he acted stupidly in arresting Gates after Gates proved who he was and that the home was his.

racism. bulk up your reading comprehension.

[IMSlacker]

he was arrested for being an asshole.

If it was against the law to be an asshole, 99% of the people on this board would be arrested.

[TheMojoPin]

oh, the report said different. i'll have to go back and re-read it.

why would you initially refuse? that only makes matters worse.
you should your id, and leave it at. he was arrested for being an asshole.

if i break into my house and the cops come, then i show my id right away, not talk shit.

thinking about it now, im glad his ass was cuffed.

So, wait, the officer has no obligations in this regard in terms of personal judgement ? He's not obligated to realize there's no need to arrest someone out of their own home after the issue has been settled? It's absurd how some of you want to place no sense of responsibility on the cop, who has most of the power to dictate how the situation would end. Who gives a shit if Gates was pissed or being an asshole? Police officers deal with pissed off and agitated people every day. What, they're supposed to arrest everyone who isn't polite or docile? The officer was called because of a suspected break-in. He got there, got the proof that it wasn't a break-in and the guy was in his own home...and that should have been it. Was it the right move of Gates to talk shit? No, but in the grand scheme of things it should have been obvious why he was pissed and that nothing would be gained out of arresting him nor was there a need to arrest him.

Some of you seem to be saying that if an officer decides to arrest someone then that arrest is always justified no matter what. Who honestly believes that?

[TheMojoPin]

racism. bulk up your reading comprehension.

He never said the officer was "guilty of racism" or was a racist or racially motivated.

[IMSlacker]

He never said the officer was "guilty of racism" or was a racist or racially motivated.

He meant that Obama bringing up the subject in his comments implies that he thinks the arrest was racially motivated.

[TheMojoPin]

He meant that Obama bringing up the subject in his comments implies that he thinks the arrest was racially motivated.

I realize that. He's trying to spin it to make it sound like Obama is explicitly saying that the officer is a racist and that the arrest is definitively racially motivated.

[dino_electropolis]

So, wait, the officer has no obligations in this regard in terms of personal judgement ? He's not obligated to realize there's no need to arrest someone out of their own home after the issue has been settled? It's absurd how some of you want to place no sense of responsibility on the cop, who has most of the power to dictate how the situation would end. Who gives a shit if Gates was pissed or being an asshole? Police officers deal with pissed off and agitated people every day. What, they're supposed to arrest everyone who isn't polite or docile? The officer was called because of a suspected break-in. He got there, got the proof that it wasn't a break-in and the guy was in his own home...and that should have been it. Was it the right move of Gates to talk shit? No, but in the grand scheme of things it should have been obvious why he was pissed and that nothing would be gained out of arresting him nor was there a need to arrest him.

Some of you seem to be saying that if an officer decides to arrest someone then that arrest is always justified no matter what. Who honestly believes that?



Nonsense.

U just hit it right on the head and miss ur own point completely. Cops deal with assholes everyday who don't get arrested.

So ask urself, WHY did this particular asshole get arrested? Bc he was an over the top asshole or bc he was just black ?

[TheMojoPin]

I think the true racist here is the prof who felt he was being hassled by the man.

Oh, but of course.

When it wad cleared up he should have thanked the cops for doing thier job by preventing a possible burglary.

Yeah, he should know his place.

Would this prof have been happy if the cops saw a black guy breaking into his house and DO NOTHING bc they knew a black guy lives in that house?

What an absurd, unrealistic hypothetical.

It's all bullshit. I ain't no fan of cops, but loud mouth idiots who look for racism should hurry up and die already

Yup, racism wouldn't exist if not for them.

[TheMojoPin]

Nonsense.

U just hit it right on the head and miss ur own point completely. Cops deal with assholes everyday who don't get arrested.

So ask urself, WHY did this particular asshole get arrested? Bc he was an over the top asshole or bc he was just black ?

I never said he was arrested because he was black. I don't think he was arrested because he was black. Being an "over the top asshole" doesn't mean someone should be arrested. Even the officer's own statement doesn't imply that Gates was any kind of threat or was even acting "over the top" that necessitated him being arrested. I don't think the offcier's actions were racially motivated at all, but I do think it was a stupid decision to arrest the guy after he proved it was his home. What does arresting him accomplish? Anyone with half a brain should have realized it was just going to make this worse. Hell, it's a waste of the officer's time and the public's money to be arresting someone pissed over being accused of breaking into their own home.

I'm not saying Gates' decision to press the issue was the right choice, but in the grand scheme of things the officer's decision to arrest him was far more pointless, stupid and wasteful.

[O&A Sycophant #155]

what do you call a black Harvard professor?

*ding* *ding* *ding*

[CurseoftheBambi]

being a bit of a moron here probably...

but let those who think the guy should have shut his mouth and take it ...let them be placed in similiar situations and be arrested and show how understanding they are.:annoyed:

[Dougie Brootal]

Well.. he says "I dont know the whole story" but then continues to pass judgement on the cop, because why not? he's just a cop. And cops are racist right? Placing a racial element on a story that has none is pretty prejudicial, in my opinion. If this had been Iran threatening Saudi Arabia and he had the same amount of info, he mightve said, "I dont have all the facts and it's too early for me to comment. But I certainly am looking into this and will comment accordingly at the correct time." But no, it's just a small town police sgt so he's obviously wrong.

The general (internet) public is cringing over this one..I'm not surprised RF.net is supporting it.

Or, as my original comment implied, ignoring it.

i didnt see that anywhere. take it easy man,the whole world isnt against cops.





god damn cop.

[topless_mike]

So, wait, the officer has no obligations in this regard in terms of personal judgement ? He's not obligated to realize there's no need to arrest someone out of their own home after the issue has been settled? It's absurd how some of you want to place no sense of responsibility on the cop, who has most of the power to dictate how the situation would end. Who gives a shit if Gates was pissed or being an asshole? Police officers deal with pissed off and agitated people every day. What, they're supposed to arrest everyone who isn't polite or docile? The officer was called because of a suspected break-in. He got there, got the proof that it wasn't a break-in and the guy was in his own home...and that should have been it. Was it the right move of Gates to talk shit? No, but in the grand scheme of things it should have been obvious why he was pissed and that nothing would be gained out of arresting him nor was there a need to arrest him.
Some of you seem to be saying that if an officer decides to arrest someone then that arrest is always justified no matter what. Who honestly believes that?

Why was he pissed that a cop was asking him for id for a supposed break in?
He should have not resisted showing id, first of all. Cop says that he wants to see some id, you show him. Simple as that. Guy ran his mouth, got cuffed, then continued to run his mouth while doing the perp walk.

[TheMojoPin]

being a bit of a moron here probably...

but let those who think the guy should have shut his mouth and take it ...let them be placed in similiar situations and be arrested and show how understanding they are.:annoyed:

Pretty much.

[underdog]

I've locked myself out of the house before and broke in. I didn't get arrested. I am also white.

I wonder if underdog has any experiences with this.

I'm actually scared to go home tonight.

[TheMojoPin]

Why was he pissed that a cop was asking him for id for a supposed break in?
He should have not resisted showing id, first of all. Cop says that he wants to see some id, you show him. Simple as that. Guy ran his mouth, got cuffed, then continued to run his mouth while doing the perp walk.

He showed him the ID before he was arrested.

That should have been the end of it.

The officer could have walked away and gone off to continue doing his job instead of wasting time and money arresting someone basically just for being a jerk. Gates wasn't a threat to himself, the officer or anyone else. He proved it wa shis house. The end.

[dino_electropolis]

I never said he was arrested because he was black. I don't think he was arrested because he was black. Being an "over the top asshole" doesn't mean someone should be arrested. Even the officer's own statement doesn't imply that Gates was any kind of threat or was even acting "over the top" that necessitated him being arrested. I don't think the offcier's actions were racially motivated at all, but I do think it was a stupid decision to arrest the guy after he proved it was his home. What does arresting him accomplish? Anyone with half a brain should have realized it was just going to make this worse. Hell, it's a waste of the officer's time and the public's money to be arresting someone pissed over being accused of breaking into their own home.

I'm not saying Gates' decision to press the issue was the right choice, but in the grand scheme of things the officer's decision to arrest him was far more pointless, stupid and wasteful.

First, he wasnt arrested for trespassing. Agreed? Yes. He was arrested for disorderly conduct. So REGARDLESS of his ownership of the house, once he kept running his mouth he was warned about disorderly conduct. End of story.

If Mr. Fancypants professor had half a brain, he would have realized the cops were doing their job, apologized himself for having to waste police time due to his OWN incompetence, and left it at that. Once the issue was resolved, i am sure the police were happy to move on with their day. Its only when they are continually confronted by an abrasive douchebag that they will slap the cuffs on.

Finally, its not the cops job to make arrests based on policy implications and what not. Their job is to secure the peace. When someone breaches it, they arrest that person. Simple.

Mojo, we all applaud your stubborn opinions, but this just isnt the right cause to get behind.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm actually scared to go home tonight.

Don't fumble with your keys.

[dino_electropolis]

Why was he pissed that a cop was asking him for id for a supposed break in?
He should have not resisted showing id, first of all. Cop says that he wants to see some id, you show him. Simple as that. Guy ran his mouth, got cuffed, then continued to run his mouth while doing the perp walk.

Mike, some people have their heads too far up their ass to realize the simplicity of it all.

[IMSlacker]

If the disorderly conduct arrest was so legit, why were the charges dropped?

[brettmojo]

Guilt of what? He said he acted stupidly in arresting Gates after Gates proved who he was and that the home was his.
There's too much speculation over what happened besides what was reported. There's just no point. However, given the fact that the arrest occurred after it was clear that this was his house, is that this is what happened...

Cops considered the matter closed... The professor did not, and continued to berate them accusing them of some sort of racism, and pursued it until he was raving like a psychotic lunatic. There was a tipping point involving either a threat or a physical gesturing and the rest is history. Maybe it's not in any report, maybe the cops decided not to report it because they understood his anger even though he might have went too far with it and didn't want whatever he did/said to lead to his arrest to show up on any record. Likely? Probably not. But again, it's all speculation without facts.

Obama should stick to turning the Untied States of America into the United States of Socialists Republic and not comment on things he doesn't have all the facts on either.

[TheMojoPin]

First, he wasnt arrested for trespassing. Agreed? Yes. He was arrested for disorderly conduct. So REGARDLESS of his ownership of the house, once he kept running his mouth he was warned about disorderly conduct. End of story.

If Mr. Fancypants professor had half a brain, he would have realized the cops were doing their job, apologized himself for having to waste police time due to his OWN incompetence, and left it at that. Once the issue was resolved, i am sure the police were happy to move on with their day. Its only when they are continually confronted by an abrasive douchebag that they will slap the cuffs on.

How did he waste their time? The decision to stay and then ultimately arrest him is totally on the officer.

Finally, its not the cops job to make arrests based on policy implications and what not. Their job is to secure the peace. When someone breaches it, they arrest that person. Simple.

The peace of the guy's own house...that is being "breached" because the officer is there and then is not leaving and is instead choosing to stay and let it escalate and then finally arrest him even though identification has been produced and it has been proven that the call was mistaken.

People are lying through their teeth if they are honestly saying that if they were in the same situation they'd be all docile and smiles. Even if you're not pissed at the officer you're likely going to be pissed thinking about how this could have happened, just that it's happening in general or thinking that someone reported you for trying to get into your house. This isn't the kind of situation where someone is likely to be calm and unemotional because it's so abnormal.

[underdog]

Don't fumble with your keys.

I live in a predominately white neighborhood (Massachusetts).

[sailor]

being a bit of a moron here probably...

but let those who think the guy should have shut his mouth and take it ...let them be placed in similiar situations and be arrested and show how understanding they are.:annoyed:

he was arrested after that. and i was once stopped and questioned by two cops for being white in a non-white neighborhood. they told me i didn't look like i belonged in that area. i cooperated and they came to see nothing was up. were they wrong? of course. was any good going to come from me being a dick? no.

[TheMojoPin]

There's too much speculation over what happened besides what was reported. There's just no point. However, given the fact that the arrest occurred after it was clear that this was his house, is that this is what happened...

Cops considered the matter closed... The professor did not, and continued to berate them accusing them of some sort of racism, and pursued it until he was raving like a psychotic lunatic. There was a tipping point involving either a threat or a physical gesturing and the rest is history. Maybe it's not in any report, maybe the cops decided not to report it because they understood his anger even though he might have went too far with it and didn't want whatever he did/said to lead to his arrest to show up on any record. Likely? Probably not. But again, it's all speculation without facts.

Pretty ridiculous speculation. It makes zero sense that if there was any implication of some kind of threat or if he was even remotely acting like a "lunatic" or a "pyschotic" that there would be no mention of it in the arresting report. Why would the "tipping point," which would be the whole reasoning behind the arrest, not be mentioned at all?

Obama should stick to turning the Untied States of America into the United States of Socialists Republic and not comment on things he doesn't have all the facts on either.

Cute. He didn't go out of his way to comment on it: he was asked a question in a press conference and answered.

[TheMojoPin]

Mike, some people have their heads too far up their ass to realize the simplicity of it all.

Yeah, not all of us can be rational enough to expect the falsely accused in these situations to not get emotional at all and to to be sure to apologize for being such a burden on top of that.

[dino_electropolis]

How did he waste their time? The decision to stay and then ultimately arrest him is totally on the officer.


No, wasting the police time by locking himself out of his own home and giving his neighbors the reason to believe a break in was happening.


The peace of the guy's own house...that is being "breached" because the officer is there and then is not leaving and is instead choosing to stay and let it escalate and then finally arrest him even though identification has been produced and it has been proven that the call was mistaken.

People are lying through their teeth if they are honestly saying that if they were in the same situation they'd be all docile and smiles. Even if you're not pissed at the officer you're likely going to be pissed thinking about how this could have happened, just that it's happening in general or thinking that someone reported you for trying to get into your house. This isn't the kind of situation where someone is likely to be calm and unemotional because it's so abnormal.

Wrong. I'd tell them here is my id, any other questions , no?, thanks and get off my property.

I wouldnt chide them for being racists, assholes, etc.....

[brettmojo]

Pretty ridiculous speculation. It makes zero sense that if there was any implication of some kind of threat or if he was even remotely acting like a "lunatic" or a "pyschotic" that there would be no mention of it in the arresting report. Why would the "tipping point," which would be the whole reasoning behind the arrest, not be mentioned at all?



Cute. He didn't go out of his way to comment on it: he was asked a question in a press conference and answered.
It's all ridiculous speculation. Pointless too.

I thought the USSR thing was funny.

[TheMojoPin]

he was arrested after that. and i was once stopped and questioned by two cops for being white in a non-white neighborhood. they told me i didn't look like i belonged in that area. i cooperated and they came to see nothing was up. were they wrong? of course. was any good going to come from me being a dick? no.

Something tells me that had absolutely nothing to do with you being perceived as a threat.

[TheMojoPin]

Wrong. I'd tell them here is my id, any other questions , no?, thanks and get off my property.

I wouldnt chide them for being racists, assholes, etc.....

And if you did, whoopedee-doo. It in no way means you should be arrested.

[TheMojoPin]

It's all ridiculous speculation. Pointless too.

There's ridiculous speculation and then there's going to such great lengths to justify what happened that it makes no possible sense as to why that information would have been left out.

[Zorro]

An older white guy who is dressed like Gates in that neighborhood? Odds are nobody is paying any attention to him enough in the first place to call the cops on him because he's having trouble getting into his home. To me that's what shows that this is a racial issue: not the cops' actions but that the neighbor called it in in the first place. I don't think the cop acted on any kind of racial issue: he's just responding to a call, nor do I think how it played out between him and Gates was racially charged. I just personally think it was ridiculous for him to arrest Gates after identification was shown that proved that Gates' home was his own. Gates was no doubt heated and likely said some things he ideally shouldn't have said, but the officer has the most power to instantly defuse that situation by simply walking away once identification has been provided. Why escalate the situation further? What's the point once it's clear that that is Gates' home? It should be obvious to anyone why Gates would be furious. That's not license for Gates to just go nuts and do something ridiculous like attacking the officer (which didn't happen), but if he's ranting and chewing out the officer, yeah, it sucks but in the end isn't better just to end it by leaving as opposed to willfully making it worse by arresting the guy? What's the point? I don't see how that's anything but a stupid decision on top of other stupid decisions already made by the people involved.

You just make up a little scenario in your head and then top off the fantasy with "that's what shows that this is a racial issue as if it were a fact. Amazing...

[TheMojoPin]

No, wasting the police time by locking himself out of his own home and giving his neighbors the reason to believe a break in was happening.

You can't be serious.

[TheMojoPin]

You just make up a little scenario in your head and then top off the fantasy with "that's what shows that this is a racial issue as if it were a fact. Amazing...

I said "to me that's what makes it a racial issue." Get it? Based on my experiences and my knowledge what I said is MY OPINION as to why I think that this being called in in the first place is what made this a racial issue. I didn't say that it made it a racial issue beyond the shadow of a doubt.

[CurseoftheBambi]

were the cops racists? I don't know.

showed poor judgement arresting the guy ? DEFINTELY.

let's examine why the professor was probably pissed.

1)you just come back from another country. so you're probably tired and already generally crabby from coach travel.

2) Your door doesnt open and you have to go out of your way to get inside your house.

3) Once you get inside your house, a police man is at your door thinking you're breaking in.

4) you realize one of your neighbors called the cops on you thinking you're a burgluar, when you're an old man with a freaking crane.

5) and finally you know because you're black this most likely happens to you far more than if you were white.

so yeah...i would be a LITTLE pissed off too.

[dino_electropolis]

And if you did, whoopedee-doo. It in no way means you should be arrested.

Mojo?

Are you a cop?

Are you an attorney?

Are you a Constitutional Professor?


What is the basis for your knowledge? Just some flag flyin american who THINKS he knows his rights?

I think if you shed some light on your expertise on civil liberties, it will help us see your point a bit clearer.

Thanks.

[foodcourtdruide]

How did he waste their time? The decision to stay and then ultimately arrest him is totally on the officer.



The peace of the guy's own house...that is being "breached" because the officer is there and then is not leaving and is instead choosing to stay and let it escalate and then finally arrest him even though identification has been produced and it has been proven that the call was mistaken.

People are lying through their teeth if they are honestly saying that if they were in the same situation they'd be all docile and smiles. Even if you're not pissed at the officer you're likely going to be pissed thinking about how this could have happened, just that it's happening in general or thinking that someone reported you for trying to get into your house. This isn't the kind of situation where someone is likely to be calm and unemotional because it's so abnormal.

There seems to be two issues at hand here. One where I sympathize with the cops and one where I sympathize with Gates.

1. The cops were NOT racist for asking Gates for ID. There was a report of a break-in and they just needed to prove everything at the residence was OK. I don't care if Gates was black/white or male/female the police needed to make sure the person who was there WAS supposed to be there.

2. Is it illegal to be rude to a cop? I mean, when did it become against the law to be an asshole? I'd personally never disrespect a cop, but what constitutes an arrestable offense? Rolling your eyes? If he was a jerk, but no real threat to anyone, then why arrest him?

Either way I think Obama was wrong in saying "stupidly".

[topless_mike]

Wrong. I'd tell them here is my id, any other questions , no?, thanks and get off my property.

I wouldnt chide them for being racists, assholes, etc.....

well, i wouldnt even do that. i would have showed them my id, and kept my mouth shut.

[brettmojo]

There's ridiculous speculation and then there's going to such great lengths to justify what happened that it makes no possible sense as to why that information would have been left out.
You're going to just as great of lengths to call the cops the devil.

You had a man, regardless of color, observed prowling around a residence in a well-to-do neighborhood. Regardless of what he was really doing after the fact... To any observer who didn't recognize/know him that's what you had.
You had concerned neighbors doing their duty, calling police.
You had cops responding to a call, doing their jobs.
You had a Professor dealing in African American studies presented with a situation where all he had to do was show proper I.D. and the matter would be resolved.

Who fucked up there? It's that simple.

[TheMojoPin]

Mojo?

Are you a cop?

Are you an attorney?

Are you a Constitutional Professor?


What is the basis for your knowledge? Just some flag flyin american who THINKS he knows his rights?

I think if you shed some light on your expertise on civil liberties, it will help us see your point a bit clearer.

Thanks.

So only those people can determine or opine on what they think is right and wrong when it comes to the police exercising their special authority in terms of arresting people?

I have never said at any point that the police can't arrest someone for being verbally abusive. What I am saying is that each of those situations end up being a judgement call and that the police, like any of us, are fallable and can easily overreact or make the wrong call. Did Gates make the wrong call overreacting as he did? Personally, yes, I think he did, but at the end of the day all he is doing is talking shit. The outcome of the officer overreacting and making a bad judgement call is someone being needlessly and unecessarily arrested. Those are not equal and the latter can easily impact any one of us. Who is to say where the line is where a police officer can deicde to arrest someone for "mouthing off?" It's ridiculous to think that a citizen can in no way voice their anger or frustration when they've been falsely accused. Yes, people can go over the line and become a threat but you're repeatedly saying that someone should not say ANYTHING contrary in a situation like this.

[TheMojoPin]

You're going to just as great of lengths to call the cops the devil.

I have yet to do anything of the sort. What I have repeatedly said is that based on the information available (much of it from the officer himself) the officer made a poor judgment call in the wake of Gates himself making a poor judgement call.

[HBox]

To me it boils down to this: it's not illegal to act like an asshole. And when one is accused of breaking into one's own house it probably doesn't put that person in the best of moods. Ideally the cop should have just left. He didn't, acted kind of like an asshole, although it's understandable considering he was probably just getting screamed at.

This isn't a big fucking deal one way or the other.

[topless_mike]

I think what Mojo is trying to get at is (and please sir, correct me if i'm wrong) that legally, gates did nothing wrong. he was arrested for disorderly conduct based solely on the opinion of the arresting officer.

Am I right ?

[Zorro]

I said "to me that's what makes it a racial issue." Get it? Based on my experiences and my knowledge what I said is MY OPINION as to why I think that this being called in in the first place is what made this a racial issue. I didn't say that it made it a racial issue beyond the shadow of a doubt.

What you said was...An older white guy who is dressed like Gates in that neighborhood? Odds are nobody is paying any attention to him enough in the first place to call the cops on him because he's having trouble getting into his home Then used the imaginary white guy to establish this as a racial incident.

[dino_electropolis]

So only those people can determine or opine on what they think is right and wrong when it comes to the police exercising their special authority in terms of arresting people?



No, they can determine what is legal and illegal.

Opinions as to what is right and wrong, on the other hand, are securely within the province of any two bit schlub.

[CurseoftheBambi]

IMSLacker raised a good point that's being ignored.


If the disorderly conduct arrest was so legit, why were the charges dropped?

Discuss...

[west milly Tom]

Glad to have you back mojo. Who else could postulate such a ridiculous argument?
The dude acted irresponsible when dealing with the police. He refused to heed the officers instructions and then he got arrested. I live here in nj and when the cops tell me to do something I do it.

[brettmojo]

were the cops racists? I don't know.

showed poor judgement arresting the guy ? DEFINTELY.

let's examine why the professor was probably pissed.

1)you just come back from another country. so you're probably tired and already generally crabby from coach travel.

2) Your door doesnt open and you have to go out of your way to get inside your house.

3) Once you get inside your house, a police man is at your door thinking you're breaking in.

4) you realize one of your neighbors called the cops on you thinking you're a burgluar, when you're an old man with a freaking crane.

5) and finally you know because you're black this most likely happens to you far more than if you were white.

so yeah...i would be a LITTLE pissed off too.
1) Does not give you the right to take it out on the cops who are doing their job.

2) Does not give you the right to take it out on the cops who are doing their job.

3) Being a professor at Cambridge, which would suggest some decent level of intelligence, you should be able to maybe understand and deal with the situation without playing the race card.

4) Being at night... Your neighbor probably didn't recognize you IN THE DARK! My neighbors are keeping an eye on my house when I'm away? OH WHAT NICE PEOPLE!!!

5) Being a professor at Cambridge, which would suggest some decent level of intelligence, you should be able to maybe understand and deal with the situation without playing the race card.

[TheMojoPin]

No, they can determine what is legal and illegal.

Opinions as to what is right and wrong, on the other hand, are securely within the province of any two bit schlub.

So what did Gates do that was illegal?

[dino_electropolis]

This isn't a big fucking deal one way or the other.

Your 100% correct...unfortunately, i am sure this guys doesnt see it that way...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LTbec9DQoKc/SLvr1viSJ_I/AAAAAAAAApc/mnwuCkrRRDo/s400/al_sharpton2.jpg

...which is why it wont just go away anytime soon.

[topless_mike]

IMSLacker raised a good point that's being ignored.




Discuss...

effective situation diffuser?
fear of retaliation?

[epo]

To me it boils down to this: it's not illegal to act like an asshole. And when one is accused of breaking into one's own house it probably doesn't put that person in the best of moods. Ideally the cop should have just left. He didn't, acted kind of like an asshole, although it's understandable considering he was probably just getting screamed at.

This isn't a big fucking deal one way or the other.

We have a winner!

2 assholes & a stupid neighbor = meaningless story. Now ask President of the United States about meaningless story, under the context of race (because he's black) and you give people something stupid to argue about.

[CurseoftheBambi]

Well i hope the cops break in your house and have a gun to your head, then when they realize they made a mistake and you can "safely" (cause guns are holstered) yell at them for breaking into your house and nearly killing you. That you will be calm and cool and not yell at them for doing that and risk being arrested for disordely conduct.

Yes I know this is apples and oranges and extremes...but the meaning is clear...your innocent of the charge (whatever it was)...the police were in the wrong and had proof they were wrong...but you yelling at them for being wrong and in YOUR house...can get you arrested...and that's supposed to be ok and you can't vent your frustration over it.

[foodcourtdruide]

Glad to have you back mojo. Who else could postulate such a ridiculous argument?
The dude acted irresponsible when dealing with the police. He refused to heed the officers instructions and then he got arrested. I live here in nj and when the cops tell me to do something I do it.

I have not read anywhere that he didn't show the ID. Again, it seems like he was being a jerk. Is it illegal to be a jerk? That's what I am asking, and I don't know what's so absurd about that.

[TheMojoPin]

What you said was...An older white guy who is dressed like Gates in that neighborhood? Odds are nobody is paying any attention to him enough in the first place to call the cops on him because he's having trouble getting into his home Then used the imaginary white guy to establish this as a racial incident.

I have absolutely no idea what you're tying to prove here. Here's the quote again with the line you left out:

An older white guy who is dressed like Gates in that neighborhood? Odds are nobody is paying any attention to him enough in the first place to call the cops on him because he's having trouble getting into his home. To me that's what shows that this is a racial issue: not the cops' actions but that the neighbor called it in in the first place.

That statement was in regard to statements in this thread where people were syaing that they think this is being "made" into a racial issue. I responded with why I personally think that it's a racial issue. My hypothetical scenario was just that: a hypothetical. I never said that this is definitely a racial incident without question that nobody could challenge...I explained why I, personally, in my opinion, though it was without a doubt a racial incident.

[foodcourtdruide]

1) Does not give you the right to take it out on the cops who are doing their job.

2) Does not give you the right to take it out on the cops who are doing their job.


So if he was acting like an asshole to someone who worked at McDonald's, should he be arrested?

They are just doing their jobs too.

Again, is it illegal to be an asshole?

[TheMojoPin]

4) Being at night... Your neighbor probably didn't recognize you IN THE DARK! My neighbors are keeping an eye on my house when I'm away? OH WHAT NICE PEOPLE!!!

This didn't occur at night. It was the middle of the day.

[dino_electropolis]

So what did Gates do that was illegal?

I dunno. I wasnt there.

The arresting officer, a man trained in just this sort of thing, felt Gates was disturbing the peace.

If i had a transcript of thier exchange, then i could tell ya. But i dont, so i would defer to the trained official who was there at the time.

What do you know about this officer that makes you doubt the appropriateness of his decision? This isnt Mark Furhman, or some guy with a history of racial profiling (as a matter of fact, this sergeant was training other officers about racial profiling)

So why is this cop a pig and this loudmouth a victim?

[CurseoftheBambi]

1) You can vent to the cops who are doing their job because they are to serve and protect everyone and to serve you and if listening to someone vent their frustration is part of that job then take it...as long as they're not being violent.

2) see number 1.

3) When you've seen and know how sometimes cops act and how being black in this country has a historical bases in your belief...yeah playing the race card can apply.

4) Who said this happen at nite from what i read it was during the afternoon PLENTY OF SUNLIGHT!

5) see number 3

[TheMojoPin]

Your 100% correct...unfortunately, i am sure this guys doesnt see it that way...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LTbec9DQoKc/SLvr1viSJ_I/AAAAAAAAApc/mnwuCkrRRDo/s400/al_sharpton2.jpg

...which is why it wont just go away anytime soon.

Side question....do you think the idea of racism in this country today only exists because of someone like Sharpton?

[brettmojo]

Well i hope the cops break in your house and have a gun to your head, then when they realize they made a mistake and you can "safely" (cause guns are holstered) yell at them for breaking into your house and nearly killing you. That you will be calm and cool and not yell at them for doing that and risk being arrested for disordely conduct.

Yes I know this is apples and oranges and extremes...but the meaning is clear...your innocent of the charge (whatever it was)...the police were in the wrong and had proof they were wrong...but you yelling at them for being wrong and in YOUR house...can get you arrested...and that's supposed to be ok and you can't vent your frustration over it.
When did he have guns pointed at his head? Please point that out to me.

On O&A this morning Keith The Cop called in and said he showed an ID that wasn't proof or residence initially... Then eventually showed them the ID they needed to see to prove he lived there. Then he chased them out of the house demanding badge numbers and names etc. etc. and was shortly arrested after that for disorderly.

And since when has disorderly conduct had to be more than just acting like an asshole? Once you do more than that doesn't it become other crimes?

[topless_mike]

So if he was acting like an asshole to someone who worked at McDonald's, should he be arrested?



they can be, actually.
i've actually seen it when i worked at a bradlees back in 95.. 96?, no 95.
this guy was going buck wild on customer service. the cops came, he wouldnt stop, so he took a ride uptown.
what happened next, i dont know as i left 3 days later, but still.

[sailor]

Something tells me that had absolutely nothing to do with you being perceived as a threat.

his point was asking how some of us would act if wrongly accused/detained by the police, and my example was specifically for the color of my skin.

[foodcourtdruide]

So why is this cop a pig and this loudmouth a victim?

Can we please all stop pretending we're having conversations that don't exist? Who said this?!

[CurseoftheBambi]

effective situation diffuser?
fear of retaliation?

or maybe wrong charge after all and realizing uh...yeah...arresting someone for being upset that they were accused of robbing their own house may make anyone a tad emotional.

[topless_mike]

Side question....do you think the idea of racism in this country today only exists because of someone like Sharpton?

no. but he doesnt help by making everything a race issue.

[brettmojo]

This didn't occur at night. It was the middle of the day.
Then either he doesn't know his neighbors or they are the racist ones.

[foodcourtdruide]

they can be, actually.
i've actually seen it when i worked at a bradlees back in 95.. 96?, no 95.
this guy was going buck wild on customer service. the cops came, he wouldnt stop, so he took a ride uptown.
what happened next, i dont know as i left 3 days later, but still.

I need more details on both stories to really have an opinion. But do you see what I'm insinuating here?

[topless_mike]

or maybe wrong charge after all and realizing uh...yeah...arresting someone for being upset that they were accused of robbing their own house may make anyone a tad emotional.

upset for being accused is "omg, you've got it wrong. look officer, i do live here" not "this is what happens to a black man in america"

[CurseoftheBambi]

When did he have guns pointed at his head? Please point that out to me.

reread what i said. I gave an example of a situation if it happend to "you" and how upset "you" would be.

upset for being accused is "omg, you've got it wrong. look officer, i do live here" not "this is what happens to a black man in america" considering the man's age...yeah i think he may have some legit feelings about that last statement. Remember obama's speech about Revenred Wright's feelings about race it applies here.

[foodcourtdruide]

Then either he doesn't know his neighbors or they are the racist ones.

I think HBOX nailed it. This is not a big deal, and it's being turned into one because of the President's comments and the media craving race stories.

[TheMojoPin]

I dunno. I wasnt there.

The arresting officer, a man trained in just this sort of thing, felt Gates was disturbing the peace.

If i had a transcript of thier exchange, then i could tell ya. But i dont, so i would defer to the trained official who was there at the time.

Yet no charges were filed and the officer did not expound on any reasons that specified why this man had to be arrested. What, did he forget why Gates had to be arrested?

What do you know about this officer that makes you doubt the appropriateness of his decision? This isnt Mark Furhman, or some guy with a history of racial profiling (as a matter of fact, this sergeant was training other officers about racial profiling)

So why is this cop a pig and this loudmouth a victim?

I've never said the officer was a "pig" and I have expressly said that I don't think the officer's actions at any point were racially motivated. I'm basing my opinion only on the idea that both people overreacted, but one is the victim because only one has the power to actually arrest someone for being a jerk. Gates could have calmed down, but the officer ultimately had the most power to defuse the situation but instead chose to escalate it by staying and then ultimately arresting Gates. I take issue with this precisely because I don't think it was racially motivated and that it's vague enough that it could happen to any one of us when we haven't done anything wrong deserving of being arrested. That's a humiliating, traumatic experience that I guarentee you NOTHING Gates said was even close to being. If Gates had said something that necessitated him being arrested it would have been noted in the arresting report. It's two people pissed at each other and only one has the power to arrest someone and he unfortunately he used that power when he didn't need to.

[dino_electropolis]

Can we please all stop pretending we're having conversations that don't exist? Who said this?!

Uhm, i wasnt having a conversation with you, so.....maybe your the one pretending.

[foodcourtdruide]

upset for being accused is "omg, you've got it wrong. look officer, i do live here" not "this is what happens to a black man in america"

Don't you think it's absurd that someone could get arrested for saying, "this is what happens to a black man in america"?

[TheMojoPin]

upset for being accused is "omg, you've got it wrong. look officer, i do live here" not "this is what happens to a black man in america"

So that's deserving of being arrested?

[topless_mike]

I need more details on both stories to really have an opinion. But do you see what I'm insinuating here?

i dont remember what went down exactly.

[sailor]

please quote better so we can follow links back to who you're quoting.

[TheMojoPin]

When did he have guns pointed at his head? Please point that out to me.

On O&A this morning Keith The Cop called in and said he showed an ID that wasn't proof or residence initially... Then eventually showed them the ID they needed to see to prove he lived there. Then he chased them out of the house demanding badge numbers and names etc. etc. and was shortly arrested after that for disorderly.

And since when has disorderly conduct had to be more than just acting like an asshole? Once you do more than that doesn't it become other crimes?

Wait, so a citizen doesn't have the right to demand the names and badge numbers of the officers if they feel they have been falsely accused?

[topless_mike]

time to go home now.
good night guys...

[dino_electropolis]

Yet no charges were filed and the officer did not expound on any reasons that specified why this man had to be arrested. What, did he forget why Gates had to be arrested?



I've never said the officer was a "pig" and I have expressly said that I don't think the officer's actions at any point were racially motivated. I'm basing my opinion only on the idea that both people overreacted, but one is the victim because only one has the power to actually arrest someone for being a jerk. Gates could have calmed down, but the officer ultimately had the most power to defuse the situation but instead chose to escalate it by staying and then ultimately arresting Gates. I take issue with this precisely because I don't think it was racially motivated and that it's vague enough that it could happen to any one of us when we haven't done anything wrong deserving of being arrested. That's a humiliating, traumatic experience that I guarentee you NOTHING Gates said with nobody else around was even close to being. If Gates had said something that necessitated him being arrested it would have been noted in the arresting report. It's two people pissed at each other and only one has the power to arrest someone and he unfortunately he used that power when he didn't need to.

People get arrested without being ultimately prosecuted all the time. Its not a big deal. If anything, it shows the cops just tryin to drop this thing.

Mojo, while you never called him a pig, its implicit in your accusation that he used his power unjustly. And i agree, cops that do that ARE pigs...perhaps the worst scum out there....after Sharpton, of course.

Bottom line: we dont know what exactly happened, all of our thoughts are based on hypotheticals, conjecture and the like.

[IMSlacker]

Weird. No thread on Obama's pal and his altercation with police.
Maybe cause the prez comes out looking bad on this one?

I hope you're happy now.

[foodcourtdruide]

I hope you're happy now.

Yeah, really. This sucks. Somone threw a perfect game and I'm in this stressful thread.

[brettmojo]

From what I understand it's the job of the cops to calm people down. They can't leave a person in an obviously agitated state because if that person then goes and does something in that state the cops would then be responsible for not dealing with the situation when they had the chance. It's the same thing as not letting a drunk drive home after being pulled over. Whether or not the professor here was directing his anger at the cops is pointless. Cops don't leave domestic dispute calls until the situation is resolved. Cops remove people from fast food joints when they flip out over there not being any chicken nuggets if they refuse to leave. Cops are supposed to keep the peace. They didn't charge the professor. They deemed him disorderly. They threw him in the can to cool off. Some blue collar cops took a Cambridge professor and treated him like everyone else. Oh the humanity!

or maybe wrong charge after all and realizing uh...yeah...arresting someone for being upset that they were accused of robbing their own house may make anyone a tad emotional.
Yeah, I'm sure he was just "a tad" emotional to get arrested for disorderly conduct. Try again.

[TheMojoPin]

People get arrested without being ultimately prosecuted all the time. Its not a big deal. If anything, it shows the cops just tryin to drop this thing.

Which to me means it shouldn't have happened in the first place and the arrest was a waste of time and resources.

Mojo, while you never called him a pig, its implicit in your accusation that he used his power unjustly. And i agree, cops that do that ARE pigs...perhaps the worst scum out there....after Sharpton, of course.

Well, that's your opinion. I don't think this guy is a "pig," and I don't assume most police officers are "pigs." My dad was a cop for a while, so I certainly don't harbor any automatic hostility towards the police. I simply look at them as being human and fallable and if some are more likely to be victim to the mistakes and implulses that can happen to any of us then it is worthy of criticism because of the power placed in their hands. We all get pissed, we all say and do stupid things, but there's a difference between a guy making the wrong choice and yelling and being a jerk and another guy making the wrong choice and unjustly arresting someone out of their own home.

Bottom line: we dont know what exactly happened, all of our thoughts are based on hypotheticals, conjecture and the like.

Very true. I've tried to make it clear most of what I've posted here are based on my opinions and not necessarily the definitive account of what happened.

[underdog]

1) Does not give you the right to take it out on the cops who are doing their job.

2) Does not give you the right to take it out on the cops who are doing their job.

3) Being a professor at Cambridge, which would suggest some decent level of intelligence, you should be able to maybe understand and deal with the situation without playing the race card.

4) Being at night... Your neighbor probably didn't recognize you IN THE DARK! My neighbors are keeping an eye on my house when I'm away? OH WHAT NICE PEOPLE!!!

5) Being a professor at Cambridge, which would suggest some decent level of intelligence, you should be able to maybe understand and deal with the situation without playing the race card.

He's in Cambridge. Not teaching at Cambridge.

[foodcourtdruide]

Very true. I've tried to make it clear most of what I've posted here are based on my opinions and not necessarily the definitive account of what happened.

This is why I think what Obama said was irresponsible.

[brettmojo]

reread what i said. I gave an example of a situation if it happend to "you" and how upset "you" would be.
Which doesn't apply to this situation or anything being discussed in this thread, thank you.

[TheMojoPin]

From what I understand it's the job of the cops to calm people down. They can't leave a person in an obviously agitated state because if that person then goes and does something in that state the cops would then be responsible for not dealing with the situation when they had the chance. It's the same thing as not letting a drunk drive home after being pulled over. Whether or not the professor here was directing his anger at the cops is pointless. Cops don't leave domestic dispute calls until the situation is resolved. Cops remove people from fast food joints when they flip out over there not being any chicken nuggets if they refuse to leave. Cops are supposed to keep the peace. They didn't charge the professor. They deemed him disorderly. They threw him in the can to cool off. Some blue collar cops took a Cambridge professor and treated him like everyone else. Oh the humanity!


Yeah, I'm sure he was just "a tad" emotional to get arrested for disorderly conduct. Try again.

So then if that was the case he would have been charged with something. There likely would have been more on the report besides him just being "belligerent." Police officers can't calm everyone down or leave a situation totally calm and everyone unemotional. That's simply not realistic. If he was making threats to hismelf or others then that's much different than what was noted on the arrest report and he would have been charged with making threats or being a threat. Comparing him to someone refusing to leave is moot since he was in his own home. I don't see how it's realistic to think that needlessly arresting someone and throwing them in jail is the best way to "cool them off" as opposed to leaving the guy in his own home and not pushing the issue. Comparing him to someone making a scene or being a threat in public or in a business or someone else's house or being drunk is a HUGE stretch.

[brettmojo]

He's in Cambridge. Not teaching at Cambridge.
Every place I see it is reporting him as "Cambridge professor".

[underdog]

Every place I see it is reporting him as "Cambridge professor".

He's probably a Harvard prof or MIT prof.

[TheMojoPin]

He's probably a Harvard prof or MIT prof.

Harvard.

[Jujubees2]

Every place I see it is reporting him as "Cambridge professor".

He's probably a Harvard prof or MIT prof.

That's funny because my wife went to grad school at Harvard but whenever she was asked where she went to school she would reply "in Cambridge." She hated to use the H-word since she went to Brown for undergrad.

Didn't know you lived in Cambridge Underdog or I would have stopped by on Sunday. We took a weekend trip to Boston and spent Sunday at the MIT Museum and having lunch in Harvard Square.

[sailor]

the mayor or cambridge is agreeing that blacks have historically had a tough time with police profiling. wouldn't it be her job to correct that in this case?

[TheMojoPin]

the mayor or cambridge is agreeing that blacks have historically had a tough time with police profiling. wouldn't it be her job to correct that in this case?

More creepy, white, corner-standers skulking through non-white neighborhoods need to be targeted.

[brettmojo]

the mayor or cambridge is agreeing that blacks have historically had a tough time with police profiling. wouldn't it be her job to correct that in this case?
There's your problem.

She's probably waiting for a man to do it for her.

[brettmojo]

More creepy, white, corner-standers skulking through non-white neighborhoods need to be targeted.
http://www.galacticpoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/3f1fdd3ea9ffb1a75404c49075d963d8_image_document_la rge_featured_borderless-196x300.jpg

[underdog]

That's funny because my wife went to grad school at Harvard but whenever she was asked where she went to school she would reply "in Cambridge." She hated to use the H-word since she went to Brown for undergrad.

You would think she'd be more embarrassed that she went to that barely Ivy league school.

Didn't know you lived in Cambridge Underdog or I would have stopped by on Sunday. We took a weekend trip to Boston and spent Sunday at the MIT Museum and having lunch in Harvard Square.

I like right next to MIT in Kendall Square. I love Cambridge.

You should have stopped by. I needed help moving a table.

[underdog]

the mayor or cambridge is agreeing that blacks have historically had a tough time with police profiling. wouldn't it be her job to correct that in this case?

Cambridge couldn't possibly be any more "correct". It's basically the Berkley of the east coast.

[sailor]

Cambridge couldn't possibly be any more "correct". It's basically the Berkley of the east coast.

oh, i know. we always stay at the meridien cambridge (formerly hotel at mit) when we're in boston. isn't it called the people's republic of cambridge?

[Ogre]

1. There was probable cause for the Police to be suspicious.

Daylight break ins in Cambridge have happened within the last 13 months. (http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x822804264/Police-on-the-lookout-for-daylight-break-in-suspects)

Also in the linked Police report Gates himself says the door is unsecurable due to what? A previous break in at this very same address. So to say the nieghbor was overreacting is just not the case. Past break in history in Cambridge, not to mention on this very street.

Police Report. (http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF?loc=inte rstitialskip) I wonder how many here have actually taken time to read it before impuning this Officer? Surely The POTUS had been briefed before he lumped this into the soup with the racial profiling that does exist in this country.

The President, by being not properly informed, insinuating that the Police were stupid, siding with his friend, and declaring racial profiling, is the one who acted stupidly by opening his yap.

[CurseoftheBambi]

Which doesn't apply to this situation or anything being discussed in this thread, thank you.

in my opinion it does because i did that so you would see a place where you would be upset with someone arresting you for being upset.

Yeah, I'm sure he was just "a tad" emotional to get arrested for disorderly conduct. Try again.

You missed the point entirely...i know he wasnt just a TAD emotional. but of course the internet isn't the best thing for getting a point across. So no fault for not understanding the feeling behind my use of the word tad.

[brettmojo]

in my opinion it does because i did that so you would see a place where you would be upset with someone arresting you for being upset.



You missed the point entirely...i know he wasnt just a TAD emotional. but of course the internet isn't the best thing for getting a point across. So no fault for not understanding the feeling behind my use of the word tad.
One, if they had thrown him to the ground with guns pulled, being a tad emotional would be understandable.

Two, Steve C?

[underdog]

oh, i know. we always stay at the meridien cambridge (formerly hotel at mit) when we're in boston. isn't it called the people's republic of cambridge?

Yes it is.

[ChrisTheCop]

I'm trying to read this on my phone and it hurts my eyes.
I'm honestly only skimming through and will reply more fully later tonight.

But may I ask some of you to stop saying Obama didn't say the cop was racist just because he didn't come right out and say "that cop is racist ".
He was commenting on this cops actions and then said racism is a big problem with cops in this country.
That's like me saying I haven't finished the meal u cooked for me mom so I won't comment. But not every woman can raise kids AND be a competent cook.

Ok. I'll go back to squinting and skimming.

[sailor]

I'm trying to read this on my phone and it hurts my eyes.
I'm honestly only skimming through and will reply more fully later tonight.

But may I ask some of you to stop saying Obama didn't say the cop was racist just because he didn't come right out and say "that cop is racist ".
He was commenting on this cops actions and then said racism is a big problem with cops in this country.
That's like me saying I haven't finished the meal u cooked for me mom so I won't comment. But not every woman can raise kids AND be a competent cook.

Ok. I'll go back to squinting and skimming.

stop reading this fuckin' thread and go back to protecting the white people!

[brettmojo]

stop reading this fuckin' thread and go back to protecting the white people!
You mean the right people? :bye:

[TheMojoPin]

1. There was probable cause for the Police to be suspicious.

Daylight break ins in Cambridge have happened within the last 13 months. (http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x822804264/Police-on-the-lookout-for-daylight-break-in-suspects)

Also in the linked Police report Gates himself says the door is unsecurable due to what? A previous break in at this very same address. So to say the nieghbor was overreacting is just not the case. Past break in history in Cambridge, not to mention on this very street.

Still doesn't justify arresting him for being a jerk after it had been established it was his own home.

Subtract all the racial questions/suggestions/accusations, my issue is simply with this seeming like someone being arrested out of their own home for being pissed off over a really crappy day.

[sailor]

You mean the right people? :bye:

whatevs

[Ogre]

Still doesn't justify arresting him for being a jerk after it had been established it was his own home.

Subtract all the racial questions/suggestions/accusations, my issue is simply with this seeming like someone being arrested out of their own home for being pissed off over a really crappy day.

He followed the officer out of his house onto the porch. It was over and the Professor would not let it be over. The Officer was doing his job and was publicly berated and smeared as a racist by an angry man who makes racial studies and issues his life's work. He was repeatedly warned and ignored said warning. The Professor quite frankly acted as a child and publicly defamed an officer of the peace and a public servant. This "man" saw an opportunity to futher his own agenda at the expense of a cop doing a thankless job.

Nothing good can come of this.

[TheMojoPin]

He followed the officer out of his house onto the porch. It was over and the Professor would not let it be over. The Officer was doing his job and was publicly berated and smeared as a racist by an angry man who makes racial studies and issues his life's work. He was repeatedly warned and ignored said warning. The Professor quite frankly acted as a child and publicly defamed an officer of the peace and a public servant. This "man" saw an opportunity to futher his own agenda at the expense of a cop doing a thankless job.

Nothing good can come of this.

It's been said he was trying to get the officers' names and badge numbers. Doesn't a citizen have a right to insist on that information if they feel they have been accused, suspected or treated unjustly by the police?

And why is a scene involving someone's frustration towards being accused of something they didn't do unacceptable, but the public scene of being arrested, booked and put in jail over what effectively amounts to nothing acceptable?

I agree that everyone involve made poor choices, but I don't see how the police officer can be seen as having good judgement if his response to being accused of being a racist or racially motivated is to unecessarily arrest the person making the accusations. That doesn't even make him a racist: that just potentially makes him very bad at his job. How did he not realize he was only making things worse in that regard? It would be one thing if Gates was making unlawful threats but as it stands he was basically arrested for wanting the officer's names and badge numbers and having an opinion about the situation.

[underdog]

Good news, I made it home safely tonight. I won't be leaving the house tonight, so you can all rest easy that this won't happen to me.

[TheMojoPin]

Good news, I made it home safely tonight. I won't be leaving the house tonight, so you can all rest easy that this won't happen to me.

Thoughts and prayers.

[brettmojo]

Don't worry when the cops are fired and their pensions are taken away all will be right with the world again.

[TheMojoPin]

Don't worry when the cops are fired and their pensions are taken away all will be right with the world again.

God forbid someone in a position of power gets fired for abusing that power.

I don't think the officer here necessarily deserves that, but it should raise questions about his ability at this point to use the authority he has at his disposal.

[brettmojo]

God forbid someone in a position of power gets fired for abusing that power.

I don't think the officer here necessarily deserves that, but it should raise questions about his ability at this point to use the authority he has at his disposal.
Yup, doing your job is abuse of power if that job happens to be arresting someone of color... Got it.

[Ogre]

It's been said he was trying to get the officers' names and badge numbers. Doesn't a citizen have a right to insist on that information if they feel they have been accused, suspected or treated unjustly by the police?

And why is a scene involving someone's frustration towards being accused of something they didn't do unacceptable, but the public scene of being arrested, booked and put in jail over what effectively amounts to nothing acceptable?

I agree that everyone involve made poor choices, but I don't see how the police officer can be seen as having good judgement if his response to being accused of being a racist or racially motivated is to unecessarily arrest the person making the accusations. That doesn't even make him a racist: that just potentially makes him very bad at his job. How did he not realize he was only making things worse in that regard? It would be one thing if Gates was making unlawful threats but as it stands he was basically arrested for wanting the officer's names and badge numbers and having an opinion about the situation.

Did you read the arrest report (http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF?loc=inte rstitialskip)? The Professor was doing more than asking polietly for a name and badge number. If you read the report the officer identified himself to the Professor inside the dwelling but was followed outside of the home, being berated the entire way. Read the report and tell me how this "educator" acted in a civil manner. According to the report from moment forward he engaged and was combative.

I realize that there have been many well documented cases of Police Officers acting outside of the law. This however is not one of them. The Professor was looking for a fight from an Officer of the Law that was doing his job. Out of the two people that were involoved who studies racial issues and agendas for a living? Who really has an agenda here?

President Obama is the one who interjected racial politics into this, so if people wan't to get pissed about this being "turned into a racial thing" than they have no one to blame but the man that ran on a platform of "post racial politics." I am sorry but the Liberals and others who make a living of off racial discord cannot have it both ways on this one.

[TheMojoPin]

Did you read the arrest report (http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF?loc=inte rstitialskip)? The Professor was doing more than asking polietly for a name and badge number. If you read the report the officer identified himself to the Professor inside the dwelling but was followed outside of the home, being berated the entire way. Read the report and tell me how this "educator" acted in a civil manner. According to the report from moment forward he engaged and was combative.

I never said he was polite or civil. Anyone in this situation is likely going to least be agitated and probably going to be downright furious. That's still not something someone should be arrested over.

I have no idea why you put "educator" inquotes as if he isn't one or as if college professors aren't supposed to get pissed off over something like this.

I realize that there have been many well documented cases of Police Officers acting outside of the law. This however is not one of them. The Professor was looking for a fight from an Officer of the Law that was doing his job. Out of the two people that were involoved who studies racial issues and agendas for a living? Who really has an agenda here?

I don't think either has an agenda. It's two people in a heated situation and one has the power to arrest the other and chose to act upon that power for seemingly no reason other than he was sick of being yelled at by Gates.

President Obama is the one who interjected racial politics into this, so if people wan't to get pissed about this being "turned into a racial thing" than they have no one to blame but the man that ran on a platform of "post racial politics." I am sorry but the Liberals and others who make a living of off racial discord cannot have it both ways on this one.

Nobody "interjected" racial politics into this: they were going to be there all along based on the nature of the situation. It would be naive to assume that this would be a colorblind situation at any point. Beyond that, however, I don't see this ultimately as a racial issue. I see it as a police vs. civilian issue and how when it comes to two people arguing with each other one has the power to arrest the other and has to make a judgement call as to whether or not they need or want to use that power. If they make that choice they have to deal with the rammifications that come with it. As it stands right now there's seem to be nothing that indicates that Gates needed to be or should have been arrested.

[TheMojoPin]

Yup, doing your job is abuse of power if that job happens to be arresting someone of color... Got it.

That's not what I said at all and you know it.

An abuse of power, to me, is unecessarily arresting anyone.

[Ogre]

President Obama, by his statements last night, glibly thrust this issue into the same light as racially profiled traffic stops.

"....what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact. " -Barack Obama

That's who "interjected" racial politics into this.

[HBox]

President Obama, by his statements last night, glibly thrust this issue into the same light as racially profiled traffic stops.

"....what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact. " -Barack Obama

That's who "interjected" racial politics into this.

No. The moment the story broke people were bringing that up. Obama wasn't the first to bring the race issue up. When the headline is "Black man arrested for breaking into own home" or something similar to that if you have any knowledge of the history of this country, including very recent history, OF COURSE that thought will enter someone's mind. Let's not act like Obama is some Sharpton-type trying to interject race into anything he can. It's one of the first thoughts that enter most people's minds. And if you are a black man it's much more likely to enter your mind. It's not as likely to enter any of our minds because we don't have to fear it happening to us.

That being said, once you look into the details of the story it doesn't look like it was a factor at all. And that's the mistake Obama made, and it's made worse because he acknowledged he didn't know details about the case. He probably did it because the guy is his friend. He said what first came to his mind about a story he knew little about. The extent of his mistake is ignorance.

[TheMojoPin]

No. The moment the story broke people were bringing that up. Obama wasn't the first to bring the race issue up. When the headline is "Black man arrested for breaking into own home" or something similar to that if you have any knowledge of the history of this country, including very recent history, OF COURSE that thought will enter someone's mind. Let's not act like Obama is some Sharpton-type trying to interject race into anything he can. It's one of the first thoughts that enter most people's minds. And if you are a black man it's much more likely to enter your mind. It's not as likely to enter any of our minds because we don't have to fear it happening to us.

That being said, once you look into the details of the story it doesn't look like it was a factor at all. And that's the mistake Obama made, and it's made worse because he acknowledged he didn't know details about the case. He probably did it because the guy is his friend. He said what first came to his mind about a story he knew little about. The extent of his mistake is ignorance.

Exactly.

[Dude!]

The extent of his mistake is ignorance.

here we go again
with the ignorant black man stereotype

i am so sick of the racism here

[Suspect Chin]

Nobody has to "add" a racial element to this: it's an inherrently racial issue from start to finish. What are the odds this happens to a white guy of the same stature, age and appearance in the same type of neighborhood? It's about as racial as racial can get from the lady calling it in to the professor being fucking furious for being put into that position in his own home clearly only because of his skin color. It's basically impossible for this to NOT be racial. Anyone dancing around it trying to say race had nothing to do with it is being willfully naive. Race had EVERYTHING to do with it.



I've never said the officer was a "pig" and I have expressly said that I don't think the officer's actions at any point were racially motivated...I take issue with this precisely because I don't think it was racially motivated and that it's vague enough that it could happen to any one of us when we haven't done anything wrong deserving of being arrested.


Which side of the fence are you on?

[underdog]

Which side of the fence are you on?

I'm on the lawn side.

[Suspect Chin]

This reminds me of the last 'racist' cop story we argued on here, where the football player ran from the cops and was prevented from seeing his mother in law die.

In that situation many people defended the criminal and blamed the cops for taking the time to defuse the situation instead of automatically letting an agitated and potentially dangerous person who was doing something illegal immediately go free.

This professor studied racial profiling in depth, so it wouldn't surprise me if he saw this as an opportunity to test his theories. I compare it to if Ant ever had his home invaded...it would be the culmination of his life's work.

On a side note, I believe that the lady who asked the question of President Obama was a plant. What are the chances that of all the reporters in that room, that the very last one he calls on happens to be the one with the off topic question? Earl and Franklyn both said that President Obama has let black people down. Is this his way of regaining their trust?

[underdog]

Why does anyone in this thread even bother to post whenever there's some sort of cop issue? You all just keep saying the same fucking thing thread after thread.

We should just make a generic cop thread and you can all constantly go back and masturbate to your fucking diatribes.

[Suspect Chin]

Make a "I'm a poor victim of racism" thread to go along with it.

[Ogre]

No. The moment the story broke people were bringing that up. Obama wasn't the first to bring the race issue up. When the headline is "Black man arrested for breaking into own home" or something similar to that if you have any knowledge of the history of this country, including very recent history, OF COURSE that thought will enter someone's mind. Let's not act like Obama is some Sharpton-type trying to interject race into anything he can. It's one of the first thoughts that enter most people's minds. And if you are a black man it's much more likely to enter your mind. It's not as likely to enter any of our minds because we don't have to fear it happening to us.

That being said, once you look into the details of the story it doesn't look like it was a factor at all. And that's the mistake Obama made, and it's made worse because he acknowledged he didn't know details about the case. He probably did it because the guy is his friend. He said what first came to his mind about a story he knew little about. The extent of his mistake is ignorance.

I would have to agree, especially with your close. While the President's comments were not Sharptonesque. Dr. Gates actions certainly were. That's what I come back to. This quickly turned from an honest mistake into a racial issue because Dr. Gates wished it to, and through his beligerance made it so. While President Obama did not start the fire, he fanned the flames rather than try and put it out.

Like I said in an earlier post. Nothing good will come of this.

[DolaMight]

I don't feel like reading this thing past 6 posts so I'll just side with CTC and call it a day.

The guy was like a 100 years old so this thing about the 5-0 cuffin him cuz he's black makes no sense. Right or wrong they cuffed him but it wasn't cuz he's black. What 100 year old man stereotype exists that leads to police profiling. Not B&E, maybe Duracell battery theft. The guy made a scene and the cops took him in. happens all the time. no charges, get over it

Olds love to steal batteries. it's like prison cigarette cartons to them. they love em.

[TheMojoPin]

Which side of the fence are you on?

What fence?

[Suspect Chin]

What fence?

The whether-or-not-it-was-a-racially-motivated-event fence.

[TheMojoPin]

This reminds me of the last 'racist' cop story we argued on here, where the football player ran from the cops and was prevented from seeing his mother in law die.

In that situation many people defended the criminal and blamed the cops for taking the time to defuse the situation instead of automatically letting an agitated and potentially dangerous person who was doing something illegal immediately go free.

Are you purposely misconstruing the details of that case? It wasn't a dangerous situation that needed to be defused. There was another officer there and hospital officials explaining what the situation was. There was no need to keep the indidivdual there at that moment and defuse anything. Again, I look at that as I am here with race ultimately being an inconsequential issue and the police officers involved ultimate having the power to control the situations and making terrible choices in the path of that. You can subtract any "racist" or racial accusations from both of these situations and easily see why people would still take issue with them.

This professor studied racial profiling in depth, so it wouldn't surprise me if he saw this as an opportunity to test his theories. I compare it to if Ant ever had his home invaded...it would be the culmination of his life's work.

That's a pretty shallow dismissal of someone's "life work." You really think he's been sitting around all these decades just waiting to be falsely accused of something? You think there's no chance that that he couldn't actually be angry and over the situation and that it's all just a calculated act?

On a side note, I believe that the lady who asked the question of President Obama was a plant. What are the chances that of all the reporters in that room, that the very last one he calls on happens to be the one with the off topic question? Earl and Franklyn both said that President Obama has let black people down. Is this his way of regaining their trust?

Uh, no. That would be a ridiculous and poorly thought out plan.

[TheMojoPin]

The whether-or-not-it-was-a-racially-motivated-event fence.

Yet again, it is my opinion that initial call by the neighbor was likely racially motivated. As I have stated numerous times I do not believe that the police officer's actions were racially motivated. I think that race had a lot do with this, but not necessarily in the interaction between Gates and the officer.

[jauble]

Are you purposely misconstruing the details of that case? It wasn't a dangerous situation that needed to be defused. There was another officer there and hospital officials explaining what the situation was. There was no need to keep the indidivdual there at that moment and defuse anything. Again, I look at that as I am here with race ultimately being an inconsequential issue and the police officers involved ultimate having the power to control the situations and making terrible choices in the path of that. You can subtract any "racist" or racial accusations from both of these situations and easily see why people would still take issue with them.



That's a pretty shallow dismissal of someone's "life work." You really think he's been sitting around all these decades just waiting to be falsely accused of something? You think there's no chance that that he couldn't actually be angry and over the situation and that it's all just a calculated act?



Uh, no. That would be a ridiculous and poorly thought out plan.

This curmudgeon is back....how are you feeling about the rest of the season. Feel free to answer this in the appropriate thread.

[TheMojoPin]

This curmudgeon is back....how are you feeling about the rest of the season. Feel free to answer this in the appropriate thread.

The shittacular division makes me oddly confident, though the Cardinals potentially picking up Holliday makes me nervous.

[mikeyboy]

Earl and Franklyn both said that President Obama has let black people down.

Totally off-topic, but no they didn't. Ron just characterized their statements that way for comedic effect.

[Suspect Chin]

Are you purposely misconstruing the details of that case? It wasn't a dangerous situation that needed to be defused. There was another officer there and hospital officials explaining what the situation was. There was no need to keep the indidivdual there at that moment and defuse anything. Again, I look at that as I am here with race ultimately being an inconsequential issue and the police officers involved ultimate having the power to control the situations and making terrible choices in the path of that. You can subtract any "racist" or racial accusations from both of these situations and easily see why people would still take issue with them.

A car full of occupants who fled for a few blocks, then jumped out agitated and approached the officer against his commands isn't a potentially dangerous situation?

Your very first post in this thread, which I quoted, clearly states that you definitely think race played a major role in the Cambridge case. If you subtracted race from either of these instances, they never would have made the news and I don't think anyone take serious issue with them, because these situations happen every day and don't make the news.



That's a pretty shallow dismissal of someone's "life work." You really think he's been sitting around all these decades just waiting to be falsely accused of something? You think there's no chance that that he couldn't actually be angry and over the situation and that it's all just a calculated act?

Of course it wasn't premeditated, but I think he hyped up the situation once he found himself in it to provoke the cop and prove a point.

[Serpico1103]

Did you read the arrest report (http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF?loc=inte rstitialskip)? The Professor was doing more than asking polietly for a name and badge number. If you read the report the officer identified himself to the Professor inside the dwelling but was followed outside of the home, being berated the entire way. Read the report and tell me how this "educator" acted in a civil manner. According to the report from moment forward he engaged and was combative.

I realize that there have been many well documented cases of Police Officers acting outside of the law. This however is not one of them. The Professor was looking for a fight from an Officer of the Law that was doing his job. Out of the two people that were involoved who studies racial issues and agendas for a living? Who really has an agenda here?

President Obama is the one who interjected racial politics into this, so if people wan't to get pissed about this being "turned into a racial thing" than they have no one to blame but the man that ran on a platform of "post racial politics." I am sorry but the Liberals and others who make a living of off racial discord cannot have it both ways on this one.

So, in your opinion the police report is true? Is there no possibility that the police either lied or exaggerated their version?

Even if they did not. The events happened exactly as they say. Is it not possible that a white person in the same exact situation would have not been arrested? Police have great discretion in who they arrest. That is a great problem in the system. Because it is difficult to keep track of who they give "warnings" to, and who they arrest.

But, once you are arrested the system is more closely watched.

[Suspect Chin]

Totally off-topic, but no they didn't. Ron just characterized their statements that way for comedic effect.

They both gave him poor letter grades and made excuses for him.

[Suspect Chin]

So, in your opinion the police report is true? Is there no possibility that the police either lied or exaggerated their version?

Even if they did not. The events happened exactly as they say. Is it not possible that a white person in the same exact situation would have not been arrested? Police have great discretion in who they arrest. That is a great problem in the system. Because it is difficult to keep track of who they give "warnings" to, and who they arrest.

But, once you are arrested the system is more closely watched.

Of course a white person could have been let go, but why does race have to be the automatic reason why the black person was detained?

[Serpico1103]

Of course a white person could have been let go, but why does race have to be the automatic reason why the black person was detained?

I didn't say it had to be the reason. But, I won't say it can't be the reason. It is an odd case, that might highlight the improper way the police are handling certain situations. Or, he is just a pain in the ass that got what he deserved. Police are inadequately trained in some areas, maybe this is another area that needs improvement.

I just don't think a well to do white professor would be pulled out of his own house on a charge of disorderly conduct for talking back to an officer. Sure, throw the cuffs on him, let him stew a bit while everything is settled. But, to arrest him and put him through the system seems excessive.

[TheMojoPin]

A car full of occupants who fled for a few blocks, then jumped out agitated and approached the officer against his commands isn't a potentially dangerous situation?

Of course it could be, but the circumstances of that particular incident showed that the officer acted in poor judgement. Once they reached the hospital the hospital staff and another police officer on the scene explained the situation to the officer. Nobody was trying to convince the officer to let them off the hook: they were explaining the situation so they could go to the hospital room and writing the ticket could have bene dealt with later since nobody was going anywhere. It was not a pressing offense that had to be dealt with then and there given the circumstances. The officer did nothing wrong in pursuing them: he just chose poorly as to how to proceed given the information he was given by another police officer and officials at the hospital that corraborated what the suspect was explaining. Race can be totally tossed aside in evaluating how the officer could have approached that better.

Your very first post in this thread, which I quoted, clearly states that you definitely think race played a major role in the Cambridge case. If you subtracted race from either of these instances, they never would have made the news and I don't think anyone take serious issue with them, because these situations happen every day and don't make the news.

I really don't know how many times I have to clarify my position when I've repeatedly done so already. Yes, I think race played a big part in this happening in the first place. No, I don't think the actions of the officer were dictated racially or racism. Yes, I do think race played a big part in Gate's response. Given the established history of racial profiling, a black person being accused of breaking into their own home is understandably likely going to be upset and agitated given the circumstances. That said, just because race played major parts in how this played out that doesn't mean I'm saying that the officer was racist or that his actions were racially motivated.

Of course it wasn't premeditated, but I think he hyped up the situation once he found himself in it to provoke the cop and prove a point.

So he couldn't have just been genuinely angry?

[Suspect Chin]

I just don't think a well to do white professor would be pulled out of his own house on a charge of disorderly conduct for talking back to an officer. Sure, throw the cuffs on him, let him stew a bit while everything is settled. But, to arrest him and put him through the system seems excessive.

My opinion is that he wanted to be arrested, the same way Al Sharpton wants to be arrested every time he stages a protest.

[TheMojoPin]

I just don't think a well to do white professor would be pulled out of his own house on a charge of disorderly conduct for talking back to an officer. Sure, throw the cuffs on him, let him stew a bit while everything is settled. But, to arrest him and put him through the system seems excessive.

This touches on the larger issue of why so many posters here, who are white, are saying they wouldn't be so angry if they were in such a situation themselves. First of all, they're far less likely to be in such a situation if they were in the same neighborhood looked like Banks. Secondly, they wouldn't have the larger historical and current social context of people with their skin color (or even themselves at some point earlier in their lives) being unfairly profiled. That in no way proves that Banks was profiled or that he was justified in his anger (as I have said his decision to act as he did was not a smart one) but there are profoundly different reasons why whites and non-whites would react differently in those situations.

[TheMojoPin]

My opinion is that he wanted to be arrested, the same way Al Sharpton wants to be arrested every time he stages a protest.

I highly doubt an old man who gets around with a cane wants to be arrested. Why are you assuming that this man is in any way remotely similar to Sharpton?

[Suspect Chin]

So he couldn't have just been genuinely angry?

If it had been any other African American guy I would say yes, but this is a high profile Harvard professor who has studied racial stereotypes and discrimination extensively. It was the perfect opportunity to prove his point.

[Suspect Chin]

I highly doubt an old man who gets around with a cane wants to be arrested. Why are you assuming that this man is in any way remotely similar to Sharpton?

It has been a long used technique of people of many different minority groups or perceived victims of discrimination to protest to the point of being arrested. Al Sharpton included.

[Serpico1103]

My opinion is that he wanted to be arrested, the same way Al Sharpton wants to be arrested every time he stages a protest.

Of course Sharpton wants to be arrested, he gets paid to be an ass because the media loves the circus he puts on.

I don't think this professor has the same motives as Sharpton. I would be amazed if he thought yelling at a cop on his own lawn would cause him to be arrested.

Not being an expert in police work. But, having read the report. Why wouldn't the officer that the professor was having a problem with defer to one of the other many officers present to diffuse the situation instead of allowing a personal confrontation to continue? I am sure there are many occasions where the first cop to show up is seen as a hostile intruder to a situation, but other cops showing up can be seen as more friendly. So, the first cop allows the other cops to take control of the situation.

It may not be racism. Again, maybe the police are just not trained adequately with how to deal people in that situation.

[TheMojoPin]

It has been a long used technique of people of many different minority groups or perceived victims of discrimination to protest to the point of being arrested. Al Sharpton included.

What's happened FAR more often are things like this escalating without any intetion of anyone making a statement or protest. Your accusation implies that Gates and Sharpton are somehow alike and that we have reason to assume that this was something Gates wanted or purposely instigated. Your statements seem to be saying that a minority angry in this situation is more likely to be doing so simply to make a protest as opposed to just being genuinely angry over what's happening.

It's certainly not impossible that Gates decided to "go with the flow," but as it stands right now there's zero reason to assume his motives are similar or the same as a gloryhound like Sharpton.

[Serpico1103]

This touches on the larger issue of why so many posters here, who are white, are saying they wouldn't be so angry if they were in such a situation themselves. First of all, they're far less likely to be in such a situation if they were in the same neighborhood looked like Banks. Secondly, they wouldn't have the larger historical and current social context of people with their skin color (or even themselves at some point earlier in their lives) being unfairly profiled. That in no way proves that Banks was profiled or that he was justified in his anger (as I have said his decision to act as he did was not a smart one) but there are profoundly different reasons why whites and non-whites would react differently in those situations.

I think people think that racism is always an overt thing. That you walk around saying "nigger, nigger, nigger" all day. It can be subtle and most people are guilty of it.

If you are a cop and you pull over a car of white kids and a car of black kids. Am I to believe that you feel the same threat from each? Each are potential threats. But, I think subconsciously the cop will act differently with each car. Maybe he is more guarded with the black kids, more aggressive because he feels more of a threat. Slight cues, that the black kids pick up on, and they in return react poorly to the cop.

It is human nature, and it is the systems job to try to lessen those problems.

[TheMojoPin]

If you are a cop and you pull over a car of white kids and a car of black kids. Am I to believe that you feel the same threat from each? Each are potential threats. But, I think subconsciously the cop will act differently with each car. Maybe he is more guarded with the black kids, more aggressive because he feels more of a threat. Slight cues, that the black kids pick up on, and they in return react poorly to the cop.

Sure, though I really would be stunned if that was the case here.

[Suspect Chin]

What's happened FAR more often are things like this escalating without any intetion of anyone making a statement or protest. Your accusation implies that Gates and Sharpton are somehow alike and that we have reason to assume that this was something Gates wanted or purposely instigated. Your statements seem to be saying that a minority angry in this situation is more likely to be doing so simply to make a protest as opposed to just being genuinely angry over what's happening.

No, I'm saying that a highly intelligent college professor who has spent his life showing that blacks are discriminated against (amongst other things, this isn't all he has done) could see this as an unexpected opportunity to highlight his case. Gates isn't just a random angry minority, he is one of the best known African American scholars in the world. If this was a random minority, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because it would have never made the news.

[TheMojoPin]

No, I'm saying that a highly intelligent college professor who has spent his life showing that blacks are discriminated against (amongst other things, this isn't all he has done) could see this as an unexpected opportunity to highlight his case. Gates isn't just a random angry minority, he is one of the best known African American scholars in the world. If this was a random minority, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because it would have never made the news.

This is certainly possible, but it would be a pretty radical decision on his part and could potentially sabotage his reputation if it's clear he was just pushing to be arrested. It isn't really in line with the image and reputation he has made for himself over his life and career, particuarly in his latter years, plus his health doesn't really lend himself to purposely doing such a thing. He's known for his scholarly work and speaking and teaching, not dramatic displays such as this. It seems far more likely that he was simply furious and humiliated at being in that position.

[TripleSkeet]

Regardless of why, the guy deserved to be arrested because he wouldnt leave the cop alone and stop shouting at him. You dont get in a cops face. No matter what color you are. Pretty fucking stupid for a Harvard professor. Shit thats pretty fucking stupid for a guy that works the frier at McDonalds.

[TheMojoPin]

It's disconcerting what people here apparently think we all "deserve" to be arrested for. I cannot imagine why anyone would think some kind of unwritten rule that any us deserve to be or should be arrested and jailed for yelling at a police officer regardless of circumstances is a good thing or something we should just shrug our shoulders at and tolerate. The police are not above us. The police work for the citizens. It's in their motto. That's not saying that anyone should have license to just go nuts and verbally abuse or threaten police officers, but it certinaly means that police officers should not have the inclination that they can simply arrest and jail anyone who is angry at them.

[TripleSkeet]

It's disconcerting what people here apparently think we all "deserve" to be arrested for.

Dude, growing up in the city thats something you learn at like...5 years old. No matter what the situation you talk to the police calmly and with respect.

This guy was a fucking professor and like you yourself said, the cop was just doing his job responding to a call. When he explained that to the prof I could understand him being pissed, but again like you said at the lady that called the cops, not the cop himself.

What if a black guy HAD broken into his home, and the cops didnt show up for the call because they knew a black guy lived there. And the guy got killed by the burglar. They would have this cops head on a platter and say the reason he didnt check it out was because he was racist.

When a cop asks you to do something you follow his order or you get handcuffed. Theres no gray areas when it comes to that. Especially when youre being hostile. Does he deserve jail time? Of course not. But he did deserve to get arrested that night for the way he was treating the police.

This is coming from a guy that knows first hand what dickheads cops can really be too.

[TNABuffalo]

Regardless of why, the guy deserved to be arrested because he wouldnt leave the cop alone and stop shouting at him. You dont get in a cops face. No matter what color you are. Pretty fucking stupid for a Harvard professor. Shit thats pretty fucking stupid for a guy that works the frier at McDonalds.
yes...exaclty
It's disconcerting what people here apparently think we all "deserve" to be arrested for. I cannot imagine why anyone would think some kind of unwritten rule that any us deserve to be or should be arrested and jailed for yelling at a police officer regardless of circumstances is a good thing or something we should just shrug our shoulders at and tolerate. The police are not above us. The police work for us. It's in their motto.

this particular thinking is what makes them jump to just arrest people so they don't have to worry about mistakes.......cops now have to worry about how an "incidient" looks, they are more apt to say fuck it,much easier to just arrest someone and let the judge sort it out.

[TheMojoPin]

Dude, growing up in the city thats something you learn at like...5 years old. No matter what the situation you talk to the police calmly and with respect.

And it's aburd that it's become a de facto "law" or rule that if someone is angry or emotional around or towards a police officer then they can be arrested, charged or even jailed.

There are wildly varying circumstances as to why someone is mad at or around a cop: an inherrent part of their job is dealing with agitated (or worse) people. I'm not saying police officers should never be able to arrest someone who is in their face, but they have to exercise judgement on a case by case basis given the power they wield. So far nothing has come out about this case, including from the officer himself and his report, that demonstrates that Gates needed to be, should have been or deserved to be arrested and jailed.

This guy was a fucking professor and like you yourself said, the cop was just doing his job responding to a call. When he explained that to the prof I could understand him being pissed, but again like you said at the lady that called the cops, not the cop himself.

What if a black guy HAD broken into his home, and the cops didnt show up for the call because they knew a black guy lived there. And the guy got killed by the burglar. They would have this cops head on a platter and say the reason he didnt check it out was because he was racist.

This is twice now that this ridiculous hypothetical has come up in this thread. Such a thing is tremendously unlikely to occur. Nobody here is saying that the cop shouldn't have showed up at the first place. My point has been to question why he remained after idenitifcation was produced and why he allowed the situation to escalate to point that he arrested Gates. The officer had the most control in the situation and could have defused the whole thing by offering to leave once identification had been verified. If Gates wanted the officer's name and badge number, it is the officer's pergoative to offer that information and then leave. Boom, done. That's not saying that Gates wouldn't have still complained, but certainly it should have been clear to anyone with the proper judgement and just common sense that unecessarily arresting Gates was just going to make the whole thing a huge issue.

When a cop asks you to do something you follow his order or you get handcuffed. Theres no gray areas when it comes to that. Especially when youre being hostile. Does he deserve jail time? Of course not. But he did deserve to get arrested that night for the way he was treating the police.

There certainly are grey areas. There's always grey areas. Why did Gates specifically deserve to be arrested? He followed the officer's orders and produced identification that proved who he was and that he lived there. From then on, short of him attacking or threatening the officer or himself or someone else there's nothing he could have said that legally meant he "deserved" to be or should have been arrested.

[TheMojoPin]

this particular thinking is what makes them jump to just arrest people so they don't have to worry about mistakes.......cops now have to worry about how an "incidient" looks, they are more apt to say fuck it,much easier to just arrest someone and let the judge sort it out.

That makes absolutely no sense.

They're worried about making mistakes or how an "incident" will be perceived...so the answer is to just say "fuck it" in a non-threatenting situation and arrest someone for being pissed off over being accused of breaking into their own home?

[TripleSkeet]

There certainly are grey areas. There's always grey areas. Why did Gates specifically deserve to be arrested? He followed the officer's orders and produced identification that proved who he was and that he lived there. From then on, short of him attacking or threatening the officer or himself or someone else there's nothing he could have said that legally meant he "deserved" to be or should have been arrested.

Youre changing the story. He produced ID and then started berating the cop. The cop asked him to quiet down and go back inside and started walking away and the guy followed him outside and continued screaming at him! Then he asked the guy twice to quiet down and go back inside, and he still didnt.

Cops have to deal with angry and agitated people every day, youre right its part of their jobs. But when that anger or agitation is directed at THEM, then they have every right to cuff the person and haul them in. It takes a split second for anger to turn to violence and cops do whatever they have to to make sure that violence isnt headed their way.

By the way I fucking HATE you for making me defend cops like this.

[TheMojoPin]

Youre changing the story. He produced ID and then started berating the cop. The cop asked him to quiet down and go back inside and started walking away and the guy followed him outside and continued screaming at him! Then he asked the guy twice to quiet down and go back inside, and he still didnt.

The information so far indicates he followed the officer outside demanding his name and badge number. If the officer provided that information and Gates was still berating him then you're potentially crossing the line but even then the officer can just leave. If Gates is yelling and not making illegal threats, so what if he's yelling? It's a heated situation where someone is understandably and justifiably pissed off. There's no reason so far that indicates the officer had to arrest him or should have arrested him, especially if the reason the argument is continuing is because Gates wants a name and badge number and the officer is refusing.

Sometimes when an officer is being screamed at the screamer should be arrested. Sometimes they shouldn't be. I disagree with the idea that anyone arguing with a police officer regardless of what is being said or the circumstances should be subject to arrest and jail.

[TripleSkeet]

Sometimes when an officer is being screamed at the screamer should be arrested. Sometimes they shouldn't be. I disagree with the idea that anyone arguing with a police officer regardless of what is being said or the circumstances should be subject to arrest and jail.

I agree with this to a degree. But there is a way to argue with a cop and a way NOT to argue with a cop. This was the way not to.

All signs point that this guy was angry at the police for asking him for ID to prove he wasnt an intruder and actually owned the house. Hes got no business being angry at the cops for that. They answered a call. Be pissed and yell at your neighbor. But I mean demanding a name and badge number? Really? Its fucking ridiculous.

[TheMojoPin]

I agree with this to a degree. But there is a way to argue with a cop and a way NOT to argue with a cop. This was the way not to.

All signs point that this guy was angry at the police for asking him for ID to prove he wasnt an intruder and actually owned the house. Hes got no business being angry at the cops for that. They answered a call. Be pissed and yell at your neighbor. But I mean demanding a name and badge number? Really? Its fucking ridiculous.

It wasn't the best choice, but none of that makes someone deserving of arrest. We shouldn't tolerate that because it effectively can easily apply to all of us regardless of color. We should all always be able to request or even demand an officer's name or badge number. It's ridiculous to think that nobody should ever have a reason to mad around or towards a police officer. Again, they're not above us.

[Gvac]

The cops should have tasered him in his buttocks.

[TheMojoPin]

The cops should have tasered him in his buttocks.

The cops should have executed Van Morrison.

[yojimbo7248]

There is a good anonymous letter in Elon James White's "This Week in Blackness" by a black Ivy Leaguer. Best thing I have read so far on this incident:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/07/24/gates/?source=newsletter

[Ogre]

So, in your opinion the police report is true? Is there no possibility that the police either lied or exaggerated their version?

Even if they did not. The events happened exactly as they say. Is it not possible that a white person in the same exact situation would have not been arrested? Police have great discretion in who they arrest. That is a great problem in the system. Because it is difficult to keep track of who they give "warnings" to, and who they arrest.

But, once you are arrested the system is more closely watched.

I would have to say that a report with an official eye witness (Officer Figeroa) and other non- CPD witness (more than a half dozen) is more than credible. The guy was arrested because he was an asshole looking for a fight from the Cops.

Yes I do believe the Officer and his report. What evidence do you have that his character should be questioned?

[sailor]

has no one watched an episode of cops? people get arrested all the time for spouting off at the police. isn't that also necessary for them to maintain their position of authority?

[foodcourtdruide]

has no one watched an episode of cops? people get arrested all the time for spouting off at the police. isn't that also necessary for them to maintain their position of authority?

But to what degree?


Its funny that I'm currently listening to an old episode of R and F and the topic is smoking. The point is constantly being made that the government is slowly stripping away rights and non-smokers being oblivious hurts freedoms.


I see this case as the same thing. The guy was an asshole to cops, so he gets arrested? I agree that its idiotic to be an asshole to a cop, but I also think its idiotic to smoke. Should smokers be arrested?

[Dude!]

But to what degree?


Its funny that I'm currently listening to an old episode of R and F and the topic is smoking. The point is constantly being made that the government is slowly stripping away rights and non-smokers being oblivious hurts freedoms.


I see this case as the same thing. The guy was an asshole to cops, so he gets arrested? I agree that its idiotic to be an asshole to a cop, but I also think its idiotic to smoke. Should smokers be arrested?

Should smokers be arrested?
no, because it is not illegal

The guy was an asshole to cops, so he gets arrested?
yes, because it is illegal

that's why there are written laws
so that cops have something
to be guided by
that's why they can't arrest smokers
(unless the smoker is resisting arrest
for something else)

unless Gates is a smoker
then all bets are off

[underdog]

Should smokers be arrested?
no, because it is not illegal

The guy was an asshole to cops, so he gets arrested?
yes, because it is illegal

that's why there are written laws
so that cops have something
to be guided by
that's why they can't arrest smokers
(unless the smoker is resisting arrest
for something else)

unless Gates is a smoker
then all bets are off

It's illegal to be an asshole to a cop?

[TheMojoPin]

Should smokers be arrested?
no, because it is not illegal

The guy was an asshole to cops, so he gets arrested?
yes, because it is illegal

No, it's not.

There are certain things you can say to police officers, or anyone else, that are illegal, but it is most certainly not "illegal to be an asshole" to the police or anyone else.

If anything it's our right to be an asshole around or even towards the police.

If there was ever an argument for all the people here who continually shout "1ST AMMENDMENT" incorrectly to actually do so over the right circumstances, this debate would be right up there. It's essentially our right to argue with the police. No, that does not give anyone the right to attack or threaten them with harm, but to just assume that the citizens of this country aren't allowed to argue with police is absurd.

[Furtherman]

There is a good anonymous letter in Elon James White's "This Week in Blackness" by a black Ivy Leaguer. Best thing I have read so far on this incident:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/07/24/gates/?source=newsletter

Brilliant, and accurate reasoning of this mess. I hope Gates reads it.

I see this case as the same thing. The guy was an asshole to cops, so he gets arrested? I agree that its idiotic to be an asshole to a cop, but I also think its idiotic to smoke. Should smokers be arrested?

It's not the same thing - not even remotely. Smokers aren't out there protecting society from the bad guys in a dangerous job in which many are severely underpaid.

No, it's not illegal to be an asshole to a cop but police have to maintain an disciplinarian stance.

You can be an asshole to your father, your teacher, your Captain or your boss - but there will be consequences because these people can't have you walking all over them, whether it be for their job performance or what society, who allowed them their position, expects from them.

So if you mouth off to a cop, in this case for an extended period of time, you most likely will be arrested, as well you should. Race has nothing to do with it.

[foodcourtdruide]

Brilliant, and accurate reasoning of this mess. I hope Gates reads it.



It's not the same thing - not even remotely. Smokers aren't out there protecting society from the bad guys in a dangerous job in which many are severely underpaid.

No, it's not illegal to be an asshole to a cop but police have to maintain an disciplinarian stance.

You can be an asshole to your father, your teacher, your Captain or your boss - but there will be consequences because these people can't have you walking all over them, whether it be for their job performance or what society, who allowed them their position, expects from them.

So if you mouth off to a cop, in this case for an extended period of time, you most likely will be arrested, as well you should. Race has nothing to do with it.

I never bought up race. In fact, I defended the cop in a previous post because I think Gates was wrong to automatically assume it was a race thing. I think it's more about someone abusing their position of authority.

I likened it to the smoking debate because they both fall roughly in the same sphere. They both include government entities tightening the grip on citizens. However, oddly the same people who cry foul when it's done to smokers, defend the government entity in these types of situations.

[Furtherman]

I never bought up race. In fact, I defended the cop in a previous post because I think Gates was wrong to automatically assume it was a race thing. I think it's more about someone abusing their position of authority.

I likened it to the smoking debate because they both fall roughly in the same sphere. They both include government entities tightening the grip on citizens. However, oddly the same people who cry foul when it's done to smokers, defend the government entity in these types of situations.

I didn't mean to insinuate you thought of it as racial, my apologies. I was just talking (typing?) to anyone who thought of it that way.

I don't this as a case of abusing their authority. In this instance, the cop had the right to arrest anyone who wouldn't let an unfortunate mistake go. He wasn't tightening his grip on this particular citizen, he was doing his job whereas he cannot allow a public berating undermining his authority. Cops are given authority by society. We give them this to serve and protect. Some do abuse their power, as is found in every position of power. That's just the human condition, not the fact that he has a badge.

[TheMojoPin]

So if you mouth off to a cop, in this case for an extended period of time, you most likely will be arrested, as well you should. Race has nothing to do with it.

So what dictates "running your mouth off?" Nobody here has yet to provide anything except vague warnings to not argue with or "not get in their faces" or "not run your mouth off" and so on. What happened to our freedom of expression and our right to public protest? I agree that lines can be crossed and those lines are actually defined but it seems like most here are willfully blurring those lines to the point where they assume they cannot or should not say anything in protest or even contrary to a police officer. Once again, the police exist to serve the public, not be above it all times and nobody can say anything about it. This vague and willing surrendering of our right to protest is disconcerting.

[foodcourtdruide]

I didn't mean to insinuate you thought of it as racial, my apologies. I was just talking (typing?) to anyone who thought of it that way.

I don't this as a case of abusing their authority. In this instance, the cop had the right to arrest anyone who wouldn't let an unfortunate mistake go. He wasn't tightening his grip on this particular citizen, he was doing his job whereas he cannot allow a public berating undermining his authority. Cops are given authority by society. We give them this to serve and protect. Some do abuse their power, as is found in every position of power. That's just the human condition, not the fact that he has a badge.

No problem, budday.

I agree with what you're saying, to an extent. If Gates was interfering with police business or threatening the officer, then I'm all for arresting him.

However, if he was just being a cranky jerk, then I think it's not so clear cut.

I always think about the ramifications of their being a law, "you must respect police". I respect the jobs police officers do, and I'd tell my kids that they must do the same. However, to enforce that notion of respect in all citizens seems a bit much.

[foodcourtdruide]

So what dictates "running your mouth off?" Nobody here has yet to provide anything except vague warnings to not argue with or "not get in their faces" or "not run your mouth off" and so on. What happened to our freedom of expression and our right to public protest? I agree that lines can be crossed and those lines are actually defined but it seems like most here are willfully blurring those lines to the point where they assume they cannot or should not say anything in protest or even contrary to a police officer. Once again, the police exist to serve the public, not be above it all times and nobody can see anything about it. This vague and willing surrendering of our right to protest is disconcerting.

Yeah, what Mojo said.

[TheMojoPin]

I don't this as a case of abusing their authority. In this instance, the cop had the right to arrest anyone who wouldn't let an unfortunate mistake go. He wasn't tightening his grip on this particular citizen, he was doing his job whereas he cannot allow a public berating undermining his authority.

Uh, yes, that most certainly can be "allowed." No institution is infallable. It should not be the perogative of the police to be free to arrest anyone and everyone that disagrees or even argues with them.

Now we can be arrested for not "letting something go?" Why is the officer not at fault for not letting something go by turning his back and walking away from Gates? There was nothing keeping him there. Gates was not threatening him or restraining him. Gates certainly wasn't "letting it go," but neither was the officer by staying and ultimately arresting Gates. Gates not "letting it go" is moot if the officer leaves, which he was free to do at any time once it was established that Gates lived in the house.

I am in no way saying that people should be encouraged to just talk shit to the police or get in their face for no reason, but it should be expected that people in this kind of situation are likely to be heated or falt out pissed off. That doesn't make it a good thing that Gates was yelling at the officers, but nothing he did necessitated him being arrested or broke any laws.

[sailor]

This vague and willing surrendering of our right to protest is disconcerting.

there's a difference between protest and verbal assault.

[TheMojoPin]

there's a difference between protest and verbal assault.

How did he verbally assault them? A verbal assault charge seems hinged on a vocalized threat of harm towards someone. I've stated numerous times that I understand why verbal threats are something people can be charged for, but there's a huge spectrum from someone getting mad and yelling and arguing and getting to actually threating someone. There's a LOT of grey area in between.

[Furtherman]

I don't see this as part of a disconcerting pattern of police doing whatever they want. There is a difference between a legitimate protest and yelling at a police officer doing his job.

I just think in this particular instance, and everyone is different, the cop made a choice, whether you agree with it or not, that is within the rights of what our society grants him.

That's just the way it is set up, or we'd have cops walking down the street getting egged or other non-life threating assaults just because someone is angry with them because of some slight that annoyed them. Imagine all the tickets ripped up and thrown in their faces that would litter the highway.

And it's been established that this cop has never abused his authority nor has cause any racial tension on the job. He simply didn't have to deal with it. Again, each case is different, but yea, arrest the asshole who is berating you for doing your job.

And there will always be grey areas between responsibility and authority, but no one will ever be able to judge impartially unless they were there.

[foodcourtdruide]

there's a difference between protest and verbal assault.

So, if Gates was treating an ordinary citizen the way he treated the police officer would he have been arrested?

[Dude!]

How did he verbally assault them? A verbal assault charge seems hinged on a vocalized threat of harm towards someone. I've stated numerous times that I understand why verbal threats are something people can be charged for, but there's a huge spectrum from someone getting mad and yelling and arguing and getting to actually threating someone. There's a LOT of grey area in between.

i have no idea what he said to the cops
neither do you

the cops may have construed it as
resisting arrest

i hope the cops have and release a tape
so the speculating will stop

[Furtherman]

So, if Gates was treating an ordinary citizen the way he treated the police officer would he have been arrested?

No, that would make it one guy yelling at another guy.

[topless_mike]

look at it this way....

gates (poster) was talking shit, personal attacks. the mods (police) axed him to knock it off. he continued on, so they banned him (cuffed him, took him uptown). later, the ban was lifted (he could resume his posting).

no different than .net

[foodcourtdruide]

look at it this way....

gates (poster) was talking shit, personal attacks. the mods (police) axed him to knock it off. he continued on, so they banned him (cuffed him, took him uptown). later, the ban was lifted (he could resume his posting).

no different than .net

If I took personal shots at you, or at Eli, I'd be banned the same way.

The only one who ridiculously abuses his power is Mikey Boy the Hun.

[sailor]

How did he verbally assault them? A verbal assault charge seems hinged on a vocalized threat of harm towards someone. I've stated numerous times that I understand why verbal threats are something people can be charged for, but there's a huge spectrum from someone getting mad and yelling and arguing and getting to actually threating someone. There's a LOT of grey area in between.

i don't think you need a threat of physical violence for there to be verbal assault, but i'm not a cop, lawyer or judge.

btw, did you hear john stewart's take on obama's reaction? kinda funny.

[topless_mike]

If I took personal shots at you, or at Eli, I'd be banned the same way.

The only one who ridiculously abuses his power is Mikey Boy the Hun.

ok. but MB is in charge. and when MB tells you to calm the fuck down, you do it. if you dont, you go on a temporary vacation, which is later dropped.