Moral Conundrum - Sacrifice Vs. Gratification

[GregoryJoseph]

Is there ever a time when the needs (or more correctly, desires) of the one should count for more than the needs of many?

A woman I know has been married for many years. She has a fantastic husband, a really nice guy who everyone loves. He treats her like a queen, is a great dad, and a good provider. They have two great kids, both in high school.

She recently met somebody else, has filed for divorce, and claims that although her husband is a wonderful man and she adores him, she never really felt deeply in love with him.

She is convinced this passionate affair she has begun is the "one" she was meant to be with, and her children, friends, and her own family have turned against her. She claims she doesn't care, and that she would rather spend time with her new boyfriend than her own children.

I understand the need for passion and love, but is it more overwhelming that being a good mother?

I can look from the outside and say it's a mid-life crisis on her part and she'll soon come to regret her decision, but maybe I'm wrong.

What do you think?

Should you always follow your heart or do certain obligations demand you stay committed to the job you started?

[biggirl]

In this case...she needs to be responsible and be with her kids and family.

I would say follow your heart if there weren't kids involved.

[IamFogHat]

I love how no one wants to respond to this one.:tongue: Pick a side gosh darnit.

[Enabler]

it happens everyday. it sucks and she is being selfish, but its common. what kind of mother/wife will she be if she is miserable and hating life? i am completely against her decision, and im positive she will regret it one day but whats the alternative? stay married because everybody else likes your husband?

i dont know how old her kids are but best case scenario is that one day they will forgive her and re-establish some sort of a relationship.

[Recyclerz]

This might have been one of those cases where Ashley Madison.com would actually have been a good idea.

This kind of story has been a staple of literature forever. Although the female protagonist usually pays a price for violating the social norms (Emma Bovary, etc.) I'd like to think we've progressed enough so that we don't have to ostracize a woman for following her heart regardless of what we think is "right" for her. She's a grown-up and can make her own decisions as long as she's willing to live with the consequences of those decisions. If her new love is just playing her, it will have been a bad decision; if it is the real thing then she's just following Janis Joplin's advice of getting it while she can. It's on her to try to make an accomodation with her ex and her kids.

I think it is a weak argument to say that this kind of activity will ruin society. We claim to value the individual and their right to pursue happiness. Our society is flexible enough to ensure it can handle these kinds of blips without falling apart.

[Fez4PrezN2008]

Nobody can know the full story unless you are the hubby and the wife in question. My intuition says seems like a pretty shitty move on her part though. So if she's willing to do that and the hubby is all that you said, he's probably better off without her. Tables could have easily been turned the other way though. Most people suck and disappoint you at some time.

[spoon]

You simply don't go that deep into a relationship if that's the way you feel...or don't feel to put it more appropriately. I think once you have kids it quickly isn't just about you any longer. It would be different if this guy did something to change it all and she wasn't just dumping her kids too, but all in all she got into something deep and opted out for a thrill. It's not like ANY relationship gets a little stale after years and years, not to mention the addition of kids, but there are other ways.

[ToiletCrusher]

Looking past our societal beliefs that women (mothers) must always be there for their children, I can say that if she feels that this is the best for her, she needs to do this.

When she is truly happy herself, she will be able to share that happiness with her children.

[biggirl]

I agree with spoon. I just can't understand why people can't seem to stay together anymore. It's like they give up too easily. We've had our problems in our 9 years of marriage. I expect many more problems, but I am not going to give up, even if I was super attractive and met the man of my dreams. I would not walk out on the man I already pledged my life to.

[dino_electropolis]

sounds like a whore to me.

[earthbrown]

i was in that same position, I went for it, and am happier than I have ever been.

My ex-wife is miserable, it sort of makes me happy, as she was always a cunt, and my leaving left her out in the cold. Serves her right, she was a fat cunt.


K

[PapaBear]

I love how no one wants to respond to this one.:tongue: Pick a side gosh darnit.
There is no side. Every case is different.

[RoseBlood]

Looking past our societal beliefs that women (mothers) must always be there for their children, I can say that if she feels that this is the best for her, she needs to do this.

When she is truly happy herself, she will be able to share that happiness with her children.

Yes it's true, you can't truly be good to others without being good to yourself, however, while she's out finding her happiness NOW, her children may not wish to share in that happiness later on.

All I'm saying is the old adage "you get what you give" is true as well and if she's not there for her children NOW, while they need her, why should they be there for her later in life?

Just a hypothetical.

[Dirtbag]

i was in that same position, I went for it, and am happier than I have ever been.

My ex-wife is miserable, it sort of makes me happy, as she was always a cunt, and my leaving left her out in the cold. Serves her right, she was a fat cunt.


K

Then why did you marry her to begin with?

[A.J.]

Is there ever a time when the needs (or more correctly, desires) of the one should count for more than the needs of many?

Must avoid making "Search for Spock" reference.

[~Katja~]

i was in that same position, I went for it, and am happier than I have ever been.

My ex-wife is miserable, it sort of makes me happy, as she was always a cunt, and my leaving left her out in the cold. Serves her right, she was a fat cunt.


K
so you have kids that turned their back on you for leaving your wife? If she is such a miserable cunt they should be all over you instead of being with her... are you sure you read the post before you replied and made it about you?





And as for the original question, I don't think you can compare being a mother to a job one needs to finish jobs come and go, being a mother is for a lifetime.

I can see why she is looking for the exciting new passionate relationship, especially with her kids in high school, you barely get to see them anymore and she probably feels that now that she has found it it is the best time to jump on the opportunity without causing that much damage to the children anymore and ultimately finding her happiness.
I know you say that he is a wonderful dad, but she most likely has sacrificed just as much of her life to be a great mother. Guys do this all the time and leave the relationship when something exciting comes along, yet when a woman does it we judge her for a bad mother.
She probably thinks that the kids will come back around, sure they will be hurt now, but they are taking sides most likely based on the biggest victim role their dad plays.
For the kids and family he comes across like the big loser in this situation and they respond to him and her accordingly.

Will she regret it? I don't know, but I doubt it. When a woman makes a decision like this it usually is not an impulsive one and has been thought over a lot. She may not find a lifetime of happiness with her new passionate relationship, but it was what gave her happiness and the strength to get out of a marriage she was no longer happy in. (mind you, he may appear the best hubby and father to all on the outside, but you only know one side)
If it wasn't this current love that got her out, it would have been another somewhere down the road.

[CountryBob]

You cant live your life for anyone but yourself. Her kids are pretty much grown and this seems like the right thing to do. The best thing that ever happened was when my Mom divorced my Dad with 3 kids under 10. She met another guy that was 100 times better to us than my Dad was. You never know....

[foodcourtdruide]

This is probably the buddhist in me speaking, but I feel that once you succumb to one desire you will succumb to many. You will always look for some form of unattainable satisfaction.

This woman you speak of will one day abandon her new lover for a newer one, and have seriously hurt her family in the process.

[foodcourtdruide]

In this case...she needs to be responsible and be with her kids and family.

I would say follow your heart if there weren't kids involved.

Why? She is responsible to more people than just her kids.

[~Katja~]

This is probably the buddhist in me speaking, but I feel that once you succumb to one desire you will succumb to many. You will always look for some form of unattainable satisfaction.

This woman you speak of will one day abandon her new lover for a newer one, and have seriously hurt her family in the process.
what's to say the family hasn't hurt her already long before? Maybe she gave up a lot in order to be a good wife and mother? Maybe she felt it was finally time to follow her own desires as well? There are many aspects to the story that we are missing.
And remember, when the man takes off years into the marriage to be with a younger or new woman most guys will cheer him on.

[foodcourtdruide]

what's to say the family hasn't hurt her already long before? Maybe she gave up a lot in order to be a good wife and mother? Maybe she felt it was finally time to follow her own desires as well? There are many aspects to the story that we are missing.
And remember, when the man takes off years into the marriage to be with a younger or new woman most guys will cheer him on.

There are many things we don't know about the story. However, she is a mother and a wife and those come with responsibilities. A basic tenet of the Buddhism I subscribe to is that when things have an adverse affect (effect? i hate this word) on you, YOU are responsible, no matter what outside forces are causing them. I understand your sympathy for her as the potential victim, however if she is a wife and mother she made some basic commitments in life that she clearly broke for desire.

Also, I don't know what guys you are talking about, but I'm certainly not one of them. I'm faithful to my wife and think men who aren't are pretty weakminded.

[~Katja~]

There are many things we don't know about the story. However, she is a mother and a wife and those come with responsibilities. A basic tenet of the Buddhism I subscribe to is that when things have an adverse affect (effect? i hate this word) on you, YOU are responsible, no matter what outside forces are causing them. I understand your sympathy for her as the potential victim, however if she is a wife and mother she made some basic commitments in life that she clearly broke for desire.

Also, I don't know what guys you are talking about, but I'm certainly not one of them. I'm faithful to my wife and think men who aren't are pretty weakminded.

you base this on your beliefs and that is fine, but in my opinion she is no more a mother than he is a father, both have responsibilities towards the children and each other, yet for some reason it is much more looked down on when a woman decides to leave her husband and kids compared to the men leaving.

[TjM]

you base this on your beliefs and that is fine, but in my opinion she is no more a mother than he is a father, both have responsibilities towards the children and each other, yet for some reason it is much more looked down on when a woman decides to leave her husband and kids compared to the men leaving.

Because men are scum. We expect the worst out of them

[foodcourtdruide]

you base this on your beliefs and that is fine, but in my opinion she is no more a mother than he is a father, both have responsibilities towards the children and each other, yet for some reason it is much more looked down on when a woman decides to leave her husband and kids compared to the men leaving.

I don't know. That's probably true as far as society goes. I grew up in a single-father house, so my views may be a little different?

If the roles were reversed I'd feel the same way, I see your point though. If this story was about the dad it would be a light-hearted sitcom, however when it's about the mother it's a Lifetime movie.

[strawberrypop]

Love isn't passion, desire, or emotion. All of that is temporary. Love is a decision, a daily choice. The loss of the sense of that is a great detriment to our society.

To me, the greatest display of love comes when you're NOT feeling it but you sacrifice something or do something kind and generous anyway.

[CountryBob]

Weird how we think - I have a buddy that married a dentist who makes a great, great living. He hasnt worked since before they were married and belongs to all of the high dollar golf courses in my area. He just plays golf and stays drunk all the time while spending all of his wife's money. All of us guys think he is shit. He acts like he is a home builder to anyone who dosent know him. When a woman marries a guy for money we all think about a money grubbing whore but when one of the guys does the same thing - we dont think it is great, we think he is a douche. You would think that we would be high fiving him for reversing the roles but it makes me feel disgusted.
So, perception is amazing in the way that we think of how people should be.

[earthbrown]

Then why did you marry her to begin with?


cause I was a fucking weak little retard.

We dated for 6 years, and was getting pressure to do it, it was not like I proposed, it was more like WE went and set it in motion. I was stalling, but was not man enough to leave and piss off both families.

So then I met someone else and maned up and did what had to be done.



K

[foodcourtdruide]

Love isn't passion, desire, or emotion. All of that is temporary. Love is a decision, a daily choice. The loss of the sense of that is a great detriment to our society.

To me, the greatest display of love comes when you're NOT feeling it but you sacrifice something or do something kind and generous anyway.

I agree 100%. It's easy to love when everything is rainbows and butterflies, but the challenge is loving when things aren't so peachy. How much do you love someone? If they cheat on you, do you leave them? If so, did you really love them or was it something else? I think about crap like this all the time. Sorry, don't want to derail the thread.

[biggirl]

Why? She is responsible to more people than just her kids.

I feel that when anyone (including men) decide to have children you are responsible for them forever.

[biggirl]

It can't always be about yourself. This world could not go on if everyone was out for themselves and no one else.

Sometimes (from personal experience) you get bored with a marriage or think there are problems. Before making a drastic move as leaving a marriage and your children you should try small things that may make the situation better for yourself and your family.

I got a job. Now I am happy. I reached out made some new friends, now I am happy. I happier with my family life now.

I can see if you leave a marriage because your spouse is a bad person and making life miserable for all, but in this case the husband was said to be fine.

[~Katja~]

Weird how we think - I have a buddy that married a dentist who makes a great, great living. He hasnt worked since before they were married and belongs to all of the high dollar golf courses in my area. He just plays golf and stays drunk all the time while spending all of his wife's money. All of us guys think he is shit. He acts like he is a home builder to anyone who dosent know him. When a woman marries a guy for money we all think about a money grubbing whore but when one of the guys does the same thing - we dont think it is great, we think he is a douche. You would think that we would be high fiving him for reversing the roles but it makes me feel disgusted.
So, perception is amazing in the way that we think of how people should be.

how often do you have a woman that takes her husbands money and spends it drinking and gambling or playing games all day?
Usually when a woman stays at home without a job they take care of children and household, and it seems it's becoming more popular for men to do the same while their wife works.
The scenario you describe would make me consider the person scum no matter if male or female.

[foodcourtdruide]

I feel that when anyone (including men) decide to have children you are responsible for them forever.

Don't you also have a responsibility to your husband/wife? I agree, but I think it's wrong with or wtihout kids.

[Furtherman]

Should you always follow your heart or do certain obligations demand you stay committed to the job you started?

If she follwed her heart in the first place, she wouldn't be in this position. You don't marry someone you adore, you marry someone you love for better or worse. She settled, and now her kids and husband are paying for that choice.

I can't feel sorry for her, only the family she leaves behind, but perhaps they will become closer and stronger.

[TripleSkeet]

I think it depends on the age of the kids. High school can mean anything from 13 - 18. Honestly, I think if the kids were younger she should have at least toughed it out a few more years until they were adults and she could sit down and explain it to them. Her kids should come before getting some cock.

For the guy that said his mom left his dad when they were young, this isnt the same situation as this guy has been described as a great husband and father who provided for his family. Its not like they were living with a scumbag.

What I dont get is how a guy (this new guy) could stay with a woman like this. Growing up I had a bad reputation for hooking up with other guys girlfriends. I liked the thrill and the girls never seemed to care, so I took advantage of it even though I constantly had guys after me for it. But the one rule I had was I would NEVER make one of these girls my girlfriend. If they even implied theyd want that I would reply "No way. How the fuck could I ever trust you? Youre cheating on your boyfriend right now!"

[spoon]

This is probably the buddhist in me speaking, but I feel that once you succumb to one desire you will succumb to many. You will always look for some form of unattainable satisfaction.

This woman you speak of will one day abandon her new lover for a newer one, and have seriously hurt her family in the process.

Very well said. I truly think this isn't a case (without truly knowing but based on what was said) of the dad being an asshole or this woman being true to her feelings outside of something new and exciting. There very well may be more factors here that would change my mind, but I doubt it.

[spoon]

what's to say the family hasn't hurt her already long before? Maybe she gave up a lot in order to be a good wife and mother? Maybe she felt it was finally time to follow her own desires as well? There are many aspects to the story that we are missing.
And remember, when the man takes off years into the marriage to be with a younger or new woman most guys will cheer him on.

You're way off here. I don't know how you say "most guys will cheer him on", bc I certainly wouldn't unless the woman changed phsyically and mentally. Everyone gets older and gains weight, but I've seen some friends marry and their wives literally blow up and turn into over-the-top control assholes. Sorry, that is a reason to leave. If the person inside and out aren't the same one you fell in love with, cyah!

[spoon]

It can't always be about yourself. This world could not go on if everyone was out for themselves and no one else.

Sometimes (from personal experience) you get bored with a marriage or think there are problems. Before making a drastic move as leaving a marriage and your children you should try small things that may make the situation better for yourself and your family.

I got a job. Now I am happy. I reached out made some new friends, now I am happy. I happier with my family life now.

I can see if you leave a marriage because your spouse is a bad person and making life miserable for all, but in this case the husband was said to be fine.

Very true. Don't expect things to get better, go out there and make the changes yourself. Nice work BG.