March on Washington 9/12

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I was surprised that this many people gathered there today. I was expecting much less than that. Many people were fed up that the spending done under Bush and the GOP run congress has gotten way out of hand. Is this just some astroturf movement or do you think this is legitimate?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32811199/ns/politics-more_politics/

[Stankfoot]

Can anyone get an accurate count of how many people were there?

I've heard "thousands", "tens of thousands" and "hundreds of thousands".

It shouldn't be that difficult to narrow it down.:wacko:

[SatCam]

millions

[keithy_19]

I was thinking about going but decided to stay home to do some work I need to get done for school.

[west milly Tom]

They're all evil mongers and part of the astroturf conspiracy. Lol.

[epo]

What a lovely tea party.

[foodcourtdruide]

I'm happy that conservative protests are finally starting to get ignored as much by the msm (except foxnews) as liberal protests were.

[keithy_19]

Can anyone get an accurate count of how many people were there?

I've heard "thousands", "tens of thousands" and "hundreds of thousands".

It shouldn't be that difficult to narrow it down.:wacko:

The New York Times put the number in tens of thousands, though authorities didn't make any comment.

[TheMojoPin]

http://www.osomin.com/moran2.jpg

[Landblast]

I was down there today for the Arts On Foot arts festival which was about 5 blocks north of Constitution, lots of protesters, signs, everywhere but I think they were pretty tired and wanted grub at that point, when did it become fashionable to almost knock people out of the way to take a picture of a protester, even when their having lunch, fucking tourists, and almost alittle too many of the O Shit! signs with the O being the Obama logo, with thousands of children around, and a shitload of the Joe Wilson for President signs, morons

[styckx]

No one knows, as all the idiots are posting old pics to justify 2 million people.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/12/781227/-Teabagger-fail:-fake-pics-to-inflate-crowd-estimate

[Stankfoot]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/.a/6a00d8341c4df253ef0120a5680be4970b-800wi

lovely

Carrying signs depicting President Obama as Adolf Hitler and the Joker, and chanting slogans such as "'No big government" and "Obamacare makes me sick," approximately 60,000 to 70,000 people flooded Pennsylvania Ave, according to the Washington DC Fire Department.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_fJFvlbijbs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_fJFvlbijbs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[ecobag2]

http://www.osomin.com/moran2.jpg

goddam spellchecker must've broke.

[epo]

I love the rich diversity of a good right-wing protest.

[booster11373]

The majority of these people are so disingenuous, If they were truly against big government and its out "of control" spending where were they during the last administration?

I'm not happy about corporate bailouts but I would never even try and have a discussion with these people to try and find common ground with them

[styckx]

Holy shit

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/2672/slide_2672_37534_large.jpg

[PapaBear]

Why do they have a pic of someone who was taken off a ventilator in a Red state with a Republican Governor?

Edit: Feeding tube removed.

[styckx]

Why do they have a pic of someone who was taken off a ventilator in a Red state with a Republican Governor?

Stop asking stupid questions. Don't you clearly see the NObamCare political meme on that truck? That means everything, including facts and shit Obama has nothing to do with is Obamas fault.


Seriously. Obama is awful so far, but these people are fucking misguided assholes.

[booster11373]

I know with out a shadow of a doubt know that if I was there I could find people to tell me that 9/11 was caused by Obama and ACORN

[PapaBear]

I know with out a shadow of a doubt know that if I was there I could find people to tell me that 9/11 was caused by Obama and ACORN
Don't you wonder why no planes hit Chicago?

[styckx]

Don't you wonder why no planes hit Chicago?

HOLY SHIT! How do you not have a blog hosted by blogspot and writing about this?

THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!!


This is heavy sarcasm in case you haven't noticed

[PapaBear]

HOLY SHIT! How do you not have a blog hosted by blogspot and writing about this?

THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!!


This is heavy sarcasm in case you haven't noticed
The world can't handle the truths that I know.

[HBox]

Where were these people when Bush enacted tax cuts and didn't enact spending cuts to offset them? Where were they when he started two wars and didn't even try to pay for them? Where were they when he enacted a ridiculously Medicare drug benefit and made no effort to pay for it?

Oh silly me, nothing was a problem until January 20, 2009.

[PapaBear]

Where were these people when Bush enacted tax cuts and didn't enact spending cuts to offset them? Where were they when he started two wars and didn't even try to pay for them? Where were they when he enacted a ridiculously Medicare drug benefit and made no effort to pay for it?
Making posters. It takes time.

[Dudeman]

a shitload of the Joe Wilson for President signs, morons

the nytimes about wilson:

"The congressman, we learned, belonged to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, led a 2000 campaign to keep the Confederate flag waving above South Carolina’s state Capitol and denounced as a “smear” the true claim of a black woman that she was the daughter of Strom Thurmond, the ’48 segregationist candidate for president."

[hanso]

When I saw the video . I was looking to see if they were going around the block.

[styckx]

Where were these people when Bush enacted tax cuts and didn't enact spending cuts to offset them? Where were they when he started two wars and didn't even try to pay for them? Where were they when he enacted a ridiculously Medicare drug benefit and made no effort to pay for it?

Oh silly me, nothing was a problem until January 20, 2009.

Same idiots then too

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p02.jpg

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p04.jpg

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p05.jpg

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p10.jpg

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p11.jpg

[The Jays]

I'm glad they got their protest out of the way. Now they will get to feel that their voice is silent when the bill passes and there's nothing they can do about it.

[TheMojoPin]

Same idiots then too

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p02.jpg

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p04.jpg

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p05.jpg

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p10.jpg

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tosbalok/protests/p11.jpg

The difference is these loons didn't have any major media outlets catering to them or encouraging them, nor did they have any impact on the Democrats and their rhetoric.

[PapaBear]

The difference is these loons didn't have any major media outlets catering to them or encouraging them, nor did they have any impact on the Democrats and their rhetoric.
Don't forget the Churches, too. More and more, I'm seeing the more "Church of" types acting like they're on a mission. They are very organized, all read the same literature and listen to the same radio shows, and all say the same things as each other word for word. And the one thing they all have in common is an unreal HATRED of Obama. People hated Bush, but these people really frighten me.

[hanso]

Don't forget the Churches, too. More and more, I'm seeing the more "Church of" types acting like they're on a mission. They are very organized, all read the same literature and listen to the same radio shows, and all say the same things as each other word for word. And the one thing they all have in common is an unreal HATRED of Obama. People hated Bush, but these people really frighten me.
If they want to cross into state matters. I say tax the shit out of them.

[silera]

If they want to cross into state matters. I say tax the shit out of them.

Srsly, too many "churches" are high profit businesses that get away scot free on taxes. I'm Catholic and I'll even lump the Catholic church in on that boat.

Anyhoo, I wonder how much back peddling Fox will have to do when all their encouragement leads to the inevitable wack job acting out violently.

[NickyL0885]

If i wake up tomorrow and find out one of these wackos kills Obama, I would not be shocked. I get the feeling this is where its headed. If he was white, you'd hear nothing.

[hanso]

One thing I like about Obama. Is if a state official comes out against a policy.
When it comes time to implement it. Obama will tell that official. You don't need this now do you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm happy that conservative protests are finally starting to get ignored as much by the msm (except foxnews) as liberal protests were.

Anti war marches were covered by all media outlets, so were illegal aliens marching crying for amnesty


http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/03/click_picture_for_full_resolution_15336.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

Anti war marches were covered by all media outlets, so were illegal aliens marching crying for amnesty


http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/03/click_picture_for_full_resolution_15336.jpg

That was a singular event. The war protesters got hopefully what these "9/12" folks will get: initial coverage that quickly petered out into almost nothing.

[booster11373]

I feel bad for any rational person who has reasonable differences with government policy talk about having no voice with thgis crowd

Lets change the word Health care and call it waterboarding then most of the yahoos will line up to support it

[epo]

Parents really shouldn't do this to their kids:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20120a5bf2abd970c-500wi

[A.J.]

http://www.osomin.com/moran2.jpg

It's quite inspirational, really.

Was that written on the bag FezOpie used to carry his lunch to school?

[SonOfSmeagol]

Yeah, let’s just look at all the stupid signs. Want to see stupid signs and props just go back to the Bush protests where they actually offed him or proposed to off him in effigy. If that had happened here who only knows what tune you birds would be chirping – you’d be livid instead of merely chuckling in partisan dismissal.

However, not one person here has actually taken the time to see what the deal is. What some of the sub-messages this protest, as ugly as it was in some respects, seeked to convey. Maybe people are just tired of the un bound spending and borrowing that’s been taking place, and the huge tax burdens that many feel are to come. And now yet another huge program that, yes, seeks to “save money in the long term”, yet has no real plan on how it will be funded. No real plan. And what’s being crafted is being devised/led by the likes of Pelosi and Reid – so look out. Even the Wash Post, surprising me, has been continuously asking the tough questions - and getting no real answers by the way - about how this thing is going to work.

The level of spending and borrowing is troubling, and I don’t see why you people here can’t get beyond the surface and ask some questions on how and when it will end. Yes, yes, yes I know this administration came into the job with some challenges. But honestly what I find troubling is the track record of this administration when it comes to estimates and projections. In every case, over and over, they have been underestimating the “bad” and overestimating the “good”. Just look at the WH budget office and the errors and recalulations they have had to do – way off when your talking 10s and 100s of billions of $!!! I mean c’mon!! If things were/are so dire don’t we deserve a realistic outlook instead of politically motivated one? They would have so much more credibility if they would’ve just come in a little closer on some of their estimates and projections. And this would’ve gone a long way to gaining more confidence when proposing huge new programs.

In all these threads here, are you people afraid to actually criticize what’s going on? To me, he’s a master politician but somewhat questionable as a leader. The basic criticism I see from the threads, honestly, is that he doesn’t seem to be implementing the liberal agenda fast enough and hard enough. You seem to have hooked your wagon to the end game. If he says it should be done then you follow. If that’s your true intent and feelings, and it makes you feel good to pile on and dismiss, then good luck with that because honestly that candle will flicker and you will be sorely disappointed when the real world sets in. It’s already setting in – you need to step back and help the guy. This shit here doesn’t help.

[angrymissy]

Tldr

[pennington]

If he was white, you'd hear nothing.

If he was white, he would still be in the Illinois state senate.

[badmonkey]

He basically said go to one and talk to the people there and find out for yourself what it's about instead of hearing about it from biased news coverage on either side.

My dad was visiting and wanted to go to the one in DC on Saturday. If he hadn't wanted to go, I would probably have stayed home and watched some of the coverage on TV instead. I went with him and it was interesting to see members of both the Republican and the Democratic parties talking together about their dislike of big government and govt corruption and other topics where they were able to find some common ground to stand on. I didn't see any swastikas or Obama as Hitler signs, but there were plenty of anti-Obama signs around. Mostly I saw anti-big government signs, American flags, "Don't tread on me" flags, and stuff like that. There was no "angry mob". Most people were smiling, laughing, talking, or listening and reacting to the various people speaking from the stage.

I didn't agree with all the signs I saw and there were some that were pretty far out there, but most of it was about the Constitution and corruption in govt and anti-big government. If you go to one with an open mind, you'll probably find that you agree with a lot more than you disagree. It was a lot more moderate than what I expected and I'm glad I went. I don't need anybody from the media to tell me what these events are about anymore. I've experienced it for myself firsthand. I'll try and post the pictures this week somewhere that you can see them.

I think everybody should go to one, and walk around as much as possible to see it for themselves. If you disagree after that, don't go to another one. If you agree, then bring a friend to the next one.

[TheMojoPin]

Parents really shouldn't do this to their kids:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20120a5bf2abd970c-500wi

Yeah, it always bugged me when I'd be out at protests and rallies and shit and people would be there with their little kids. Let children be children: they get to be blissfully unaware of this stuff for a good 15 years or so.

[The Jays]

I'm just wondering where all these people were when the Bush tax cuts were put in place, when spending for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars was reported, when Bush signed on to bail out the banks, when he turned our budget surplus into a budget deficit, why it's so ok to spend money we don't have to kill people and make us less safe, but when it comes to spending money on shit we should have taken care of years ago, it's a national fucking tragedy.

[TheMojoPin]

As has been pointed out numerous times, it's striking how many of these people so concerned about government spendign and big government felt zero need to voice these concerns prior to the current administration. That's not saying there's nothing to some of the general concerns being raised, but it kind of undercuts any justification that this is a mass movement or sentiment that has been building for a while since nothing even remotely on this scale was voiced prior to Obama taking office.

[ImNotGvac]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.express/art.obama.sign.cnn.jpg

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/09/12/tea.party.express/art.militia.signs.cnn.jpg

[epo]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3512/3914997424_e9e4d8d6de.jpg

Since the McCain campaign got the far right all worked up, it seems as if the EXACT same people have gone TeaBagging, have gone to Town Halls and protested yesterday.

Its quite a diverse group of old, white people who have magically gotten angry with their government in the past 12 months.

[Dudeman]

If he was white, he would still be in the Illinois state senate.

that's debatable. what isn't debatable is that if bush weren't his dad's son, he'd be pumping gas.

[HBox]

As has been pointed out numerous times, it's striking how many of these people so concerned about government spendign and big government felt zero need to voice these concerns prior to the current administration. That's not saying there's nothing to some of the general concerns being raised, but it kind of undercuts any justification that this is a mass movement or sentiment that has been building for a while since nothing even remotely on this scale was voiced prior to Obama taking office.

And it's not even just that. It went from not caring or even defending what Bush did to absolute vicious rage immediately.

[The Jays]

That because Bush was the second coming of Jesus. Just watch Jesus Camp, they pray to a cardboard cutout of Bush. Now, Obama gets elected and everything bad that Bush did is now because of Obama. All Bush did was save us from terror. Obama is bad because he bailed out the banks, Obama is the one who used TARP money to save the auto industry, Obama let the banks fail, Obama caused the housing bubble, Obama is from another country, Obama wants to create national healthcare because he wants to make this country fascist.

[Dudeman]

the basis for these protests that are being compared:

anti-bush: starting a WAR in Iraq based on false information

anti-obama: trying to pass a HEALTH-CARE plan that is considered too expensive and mandates death panels

:dry:

[hanso]

that's debatable. what isn't debatable is that if bush weren't his dad's son, he'd be pumping gas.

His own oil venture went tits up. Just like every other business venture he delved in.

[The Jays]

Apparently, it's OK to send 20 year olds off to be killed in Iraq and to kill sand people, but it's not cool to give the terminally ill elderly consultation on how to make the end of their lives more comfortable and peaceful, and that if an illegal immigrant comes to the hospital with a gun shot wound because some redneck shot him, the hospital would have to deport him and let him die when they found out he can't be covered.

This is the fine Christian people that this country is made up of.

[booster11373]

Things only a conservative could believe, not mine

found here http://www.mountainofevidence.com/2009/09/things-only-republican-could-believe.html

Things Only a Republican Could Believe:

•Parents who don't want their children to pray in school are Anti-American zealots -- parents who don't want their children to listen to a speech by the President of the United States telling them to work hard and get good grades are noble patriots.

•Peacefully demonstrating against the country starting an international war is treason -- showing up with automatic weapons to protest healthcare reform is democracy at its finest.

•Any government official with a desk job should have every action scrutinized -- any government official with a badge and a gun should never be questioned or disrespected. At all. Ever.

•Questioning the legitimacy of an election because the "winner" was selected by the Supreme Court is sour grapes -- questioning the legitimacy of an election because the winner (by the largest number of votes in American history) is really a Kenyan born Muslim despite all evidence to the contrary is being a vigilant American.

•Lying about a blowjob is an impeachable offense -- lying about a war is no big deal, really.

•Investigating a shady land deal involving the First Lady is a matter of National Identity -- investigating the use of torture at the direction of the Executive Branch is a partisan witch hunt.

•Executing Japanese officers for waterboarding prisoners during WWII shows that we have the moral high-ground on human rights -- waterboarding prisoners of our shows that we have the moral high-ground on human rights.

•Sitting two rows in front of Jane Fonda in a 1970 anti-war rally is an OUTRAGE! Shaking Saddam's hand in 1983...meh, not so much.

•Anyone who questions the president during a time of war is giving aide and comfort to the enemy and should be deported...unless the president in question has a (D) next to their name in which case you should undermine them at every turn even if you have to routinely make shit up to do it.

•Socialism, Marxism, Communism and Fascism are all interchangeable words that mean pretty much the same thing.

•Anyone who abuses drugs should be locked up indefinitely...unless they are a popular Republican radio host in which case they need your prayers as they recover from the illness of addiction.

•Health Insurance companies have your best interests in mind and anyone who thinks otherwise is trying to turn America into the Godless heathen nation of Sweden where EVERYONE in the country dies (eventually).

•Obama is an atheist communist muslim who attended a radical christian church.

•Believing that human activity could impact the global environment is crazy talk -- believing that an invisible man in the sky personally told George Bush to invade Iraq to fulfill Biblical prophecy is logically sound.

•The verdict is still out on evolution -- but Jesus Christ returning in our lifetimes is a pretty much a given.

•The media are unquestionably biased against Republicans -- Talk Radio, The Washington Times, The Weekly Standard, The Wall Street Journal, Rightwing Blogs, Fox News and NewsCorp are not part of the media.

•The government should have no part in regulating multi-national corporations as they make decisions that impact the lives of millions of people -- government should regulate individuals by determining who they can marry, what kind of intercourse they can have, what they can smoke, how to manage their pregnancy and how to proceed with end of life decisions.

•Communicating with hostile nations is a stab in the back to our great nation -- Reagan communicating with the USSR during the Cold War was Political Genius.

•Iran is a mortal threat to our nation and anyone who attempts to talk to them is traitorous scum -- selling weapons to Iran and then funneling the money to start wars in South America is clearly in our National interest.

•George Bush kept the nation safe after 9-11 (NOTE: the Anthrax attacks, the DC Sniper and Hurricane Katrina don't count. Also, the fact that 9-11 happened on his watch despite receiving a security briefing specifically warning of the attack doesn't count either.)

•Social Security, Meidcare, public schooling, public libraries, fire departments, police departments and the US Military are as American as Apple Pie -- universal healthcare is ZOMGDEATHPANELSOCIALISM!!

•George W Bush is a regular 'ole Texas rancher just like you and me despite the fact that he was born in Connecticut, attended two Ivy League schools, bought the Crawford ranch just before running for president, sold it immediate after leaving office and is terrified of horses.

•The two guys at the center of the Watergate and Iran-Contra scandals are trustworthy voices in discussions of current national policy and should be taken at face-value.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Parents really shouldn't do this to their kids:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20120a5bf2abd970c-500wi

Children shouldnt be used as pawns for any political purpose, However wheres the outrage when illegal aliens and their supporters use them for their cause?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy7hEbqBJSk&feature=related

[keithy_19]

•George Bush kept the nation safe after 9-11 (NOTE: the Anthrax attacks, the DC Sniper and Hurricane Katrina don't count. Also, the fact that 9-11 happened on his watch despite receiving a security briefing specifically warning of the attack doesn't count either.)



This really pisses me off. Yes, Bush was told that there was going to be an attack on 9/11 that dealt with planes flying into buildings. Yes. He heard that and did nothing. Give me a break.

It's also interesting to note that while Clinton was in office the first World Trade Center attack took place. The Embassy was attacked. The USS Cole was attacked. Bin Laden could have been taken out yet he didn't give the call.

I'm not supporting Bush, but this statement just angered me.

[yojimbo7248]

What the fuck!? New era of McCarthyism? Have any of these people read US history from that time? I just can't imagine reasonable people, no matter how far to the right, thinking returning to McCarthyism is a positive thing.

[TheMojoPin]

Children shouldnt be used as pawns for any political purpose, However wheres the outrage when illegal aliens and their supporters use them for their cause?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy7hEbqBJSk&feature=related

Who are you even arguing with? There's no "outrage" over this kid, and people here are saying how it's unfortunate when people drag kids into these political messes regardless of the ideology or issue.

[booster11373]

What the fuck!? New era of McCarthyism? Have any of these people read US history from that time? I just can't imagine reasonable people, no matter how far to the right, thinking returning to McCarthyism is a positive thing.

After the history book I hope the crack open a dictionary and research some of the terms they keep throwing around

[keithy_19]

Who are you even arguing with? There's no "outrage" over this kid, and people here are saying how it's unfortunate when people drag kids into these political messes regardless of the ideology or issue.

It seemed a lot of people took offense with the child wearing the shirt and holding the sign. His parents probably influenced him.

He was just saying that there should be people who take offense for the cause he stated. He wasn't arguing.

[badmonkey]

Pictures from the protest. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/badmonkeyshow/sets/72157622236547925/)

Here's some of my favorites

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3487/3917802670_fc3412b822.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3917800340_886e01f6b4.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2521/3917013787_85f4d81a99.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3474/3917803116_a7f78a9b7e.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2564/3917802602_d7facddb48.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2497/3917008801_3c325853a6.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3434/3917796658_92c14d410a.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2597/3917013941_7e26557960.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3481/3917012193_1ddda13563.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2424/3917009055_5155b07a84.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2659/3917013167_5a0794a465.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/3917799636_28b16be336.jpg


BTW: I took these myself.

[HBox]

What the fuck!? New era of McCarthyism? Have any of these people read US history from that time? I just can't imagine reasonable people, no matter how far to the right, thinking returning to McCarthyism is a positive thing.

There's a portion of the far right that believes McCarthy was a hero. Michelle Malkin wrote a book attempting to exonerate him. It's nauseating.

[SonOfSmeagol]

BTW: I took these myself.

It's good to hear from someone who was actually there.

"Print me a trillion...while you're at it"
:lol:

[booster11373]

There's a portion of the far right that believes McCarthy was a hero. Michelle Malkin wrote a book attempting to exonerate him. It's nauseating.

I know Coulter has continually praised him and I thought she wrote that book

[HBox]

I know Coulter has continually praised him and I thought she wrote that book

Oh yeah it was her. Michelle Malkin was the one who wrote about how our internment of Japanese Americans during World War 2 was a good thing. I always get all those disgusting right wingers defending human rights abuses confused. There's so many of them.

[HBox]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3434/3917796658_92c14d410a.jpg

I would have thought that too.

[booster11373]

Oh yeah it was her. Michelle Malkin was the one who wrote about how our internment of Japanese Americans during World War 2 was a good thing. I always get all those disgusting right wingers defending human rights abuses confused. There's so many of them.

Which to me just shows that at these talking heads don't care about the Constitution or all this freedom talk they just want people who share the political ideology in office

[keithy_19]

Which to me just shows that at these talking heads don't care about the Constitution or all this freedom talk they just want people who share the political ideology in office

I remember Beck bringing up the atrocity brought upon Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor.

[hanso]

This really pisses me off. Yes, Bush was told that there was going to be an attack on 9/11 that dealt with planes flying into buildings. Yes. He heard that and did nothing. Give me a break.

It's also interesting to note that while Clinton was in office the first World Trade Center attack took place. The Embassy was attacked. The USS Cole was attacked. Bin Laden could have been taken out yet he didn't give the call.

I'm not supporting Bush, but this statement just angered me.
This ticks me off about Clinton. As he did track and have missiles fired at Bin Laden.

[The Jays]

I remember Beck bringing up the atrocity brought upon Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor.

Did he tie it in with how unfair it is for conservatives to be held in FEMA concentration camps?

[TheMojoPin]

It seemed a lot of people took offense with the child wearing the shirt and holding the sign. His parents probably influenced him.

Who "took offense?"

He was just saying that there should be people who take offense for the cause he stated. He wasn't arguing.

He was trying to spin the discussion to try and make people who differ from him politically look bad. It was redundant to bring up since people here had already expressly said that using kids in that way, no matter what the politics or the cause, was unfortunate.

[keithy_19]

Did he tie it in with how unfair it is for conservatives to be held in FEMA concentration camps?

No. Most likely because his talk concerning FEMA camps were actually about how the idea that there were FEMA concentration camps was bullshit. I remember watching the shows when he was talking about the matter. The proposed camp was actually an Amtrak station where they repair train cars.

[The Jays]

He's the one who raised the issue, and then he went and said it was bullshit. My point is this, just don't bring up Beck anymore. His value as a news reporter is equal to that of Shari Lewis.

[yojimbo7248]

The difference is these loons didn't have any major media outlets catering to them or encouraging them, nor did they have any impact on the Democrats and their rhetoric.

exactly. So, on the left, we have anarchists from Eugene, free Mumia people, and other lunatic fringers. they get more Fox coverage than any other outlet because they hope to stain all Dems as frothing at the mouth nutters. Very, very different relationship between Dems and these people and GOP and their wing nutters.

[yojimbo7248]

just found this. Can't confirm #'s yet and writer is clearly biased but point still valid:

It should be noted that the size of the crowd (over the weekend) is estimated at about 65,000.

The Gay rights march a few months back was over 500,000.

The million Man march years back was over 400,000.

The antiwar marchs against the Iraq war all numbered in the hundreds of thousands,the one in January of 2007 was estimated at 400,000.

[west milly Tom]

Wing nutters? Have you seen the latest poll numbers for the public option? This was a valuable protest in that it clearly showed that the outrage is organic and home grown no matter how you people try and slant it. This movement is largely responsible for shelving the single payer plan. Its really interesting for me to read the negative things being said in here about ordinary citizens. Its shameful.

[pennington]

that's debatable. what isn't debatable is that if bush weren't his dad's son, he'd be pumping gas.

Now that's debatable. Using that logic we should have had a President Amy Carter or President Ron Reagan, Jr. by now...

[yojimbo7248]

you are a wing nutter if you:

1. believe any combination of Obama conspiracy theories from secret Muslim, anti-Christ, not born in America, reincarnation of Hitler, etc.

2. irrational paranoia of US government putting dissidents in FEMA run concentration camps, rounding up gun owners and Christian, turning our health care into the Soviet Union's circa 1980, death panels, etc.

3. Propose an armed revolt against the US government by creating a militia or a new witch hunt to smoke out commies from the Obama administration

The above indicates you aren't critically thinking about these issues and are seriously divorced from reality.

For the good of the nation, we need a well-functioning, serious opposition party. I welcome debate about Obama but marginalize the loonies, GOP, so we can seriously start to work on solving some of these issues.

[west milly Tom]

you are a wing nutter if you:

1. believe any combination of Obama conspiracy theories from secret Muslim, anti-Christ, not born in America, reincarnation of Hitler, etc.

2. irrational paranoia of US government putting dissidents in FEMA run concentration camps, rounding up gun owners and Christian, turning our health care into the Soviet Union's circa 1980, death panels, etc.

3. Propose an armed revolt against the US government by creating a militia or a new witch hunt to smoke out commies from the Obama administration

The above indicates you aren't critically thinking about these issues and are seriously divorced from reality.

For the good of the nation, we need a well-functioning, serious opposition party. I welcome debate about Obama but marginalize the loonies, GOP, so we can seriously start to work on solving some of these issues.

Agreed. Just so you know I don't believe any of those crazy stories I do believe however that obama is trying to drastically change the foundation of this nation to form a socialist state which is worse than ay of the previously listed wing-nutteries.

[yojimbo7248]

Agreed. Just so you know I don't believe any of those crazy stories I do believe however that obama is trying to drastically change the foundation of this nation to form a socialist state which is worse than ay of the previously listed wing-nutteries.

I am with you. having a rational debate about whether Obama is taking us toward socialism is great. I'll probably agree with you on some points. I am pissed that he is raising tire tariffs to please the unions. I am a big fan of free trade and have no problem criticizing Obama and Dems for their protectionist tendencies. All I ask for is political discussions being grounded in logical, thoughtful, analysis and at least agreeing that we will base our conclusions on fact.

[Dudeman]

Now that's debatable. Using that logic we should have had a President Amy Carter or President Ron Reagan, Jr. by now...

your logic is illogical.

from my statement, the logical conclusion wasn't that children of presidents will become president. it was simply that this lazy, unintelligent, alcoholic son of a president was able to advance in the political and business worlds via his name/connections.

if anything, bringing up Ron Reagan Jr. proves my point- do you think he would have his career if it weren't for his name?

:wallbash:

[pennington]

your logic is illogical.

But you're the one who took my statement about Obama and made a non sequitur about Bush. I still stand by my original statement, by the way.

from my statement, the logical conclusion wasn't that children of presidents will become president. it was simply that this lazy, unintelligent, alcoholic son of a president was able to advance in the political and business worlds via his name/connections.

But then, by your logic, they all have political connections via their fathers. If someone who is lazy and stupid (in your estimable estimation) can do it, why haven't there been more? Do you have a problem with John Quincy Adams too?

if anything, bringing up Ron Reagan Jr. proves my point- do you think he would have his career if it weren't for his name?

Ron Reagan, Jr. has a career?

[TheMojoPin]

Wing nutters? Have you seen the latest poll numbers for the public option? This was a valuable protest in that it clearly showed that the outrage is organic and home grown no matter how you people try and slant it. This movement is largely responsible for shelving the single payer plan. Its really interesting for me to read the negative things being said in here about ordinary citizens. Its shameful.

THERE NEVER WAS A REALISTIC SINGLE PAYER PLAN. Not now, and not when they were pushing for reform under Clinton. The drive both times was to creat a government option and never to replace the private options. You say you're all for realistic debate, yet you continually drop things like this.

[TheMojoPin]

I am with you. having a rational debate about whether Obama is taking us toward socialism is great.

Which you're likely not going to get from someone one convinced that Obama is trying to actively turn America into a "socialist state."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you are a wing nutter if you:

1. believe any combination of Obama conspiracy theories from secret Muslim, anti-Christ, not born in America, reincarnation of Hitler, etc.

2. irrational paranoia of US government putting dissidents in FEMA run concentration camps, rounding up gun owners and Christian, turning our health care into the Soviet Union's circa 1980, death panels, etc.

3. Propose an armed revolt against the US government by creating a militia or a new witch hunt to smoke out commies from the Obama administration

The above indicates you aren't critically thinking about these issues and are seriously divorced from reality.

For the good of the nation, we need a well-functioning, serious opposition party. I welcome debate about Obama but marginalize the loonies, GOP, so we can seriously start to work on solving some of these issues.



Most rational people know that its not Just Obama that they are opposed to. Its also Congress with their ridiculous out of control spending, the pork barrel projects. People have had it with both Parties

The people are sick and tired of being lectured to by these politicians

[TheMojoPin]

Most rational people know that its not Just Obama that they are opposed to. Its also Congress with their ridiculous out of control spending, the pork barrel projects. People have had it with both Parties

The people are sick and tired of being lectured to by these politicians

And once again, where were they the last 55+ years? Dressing it all up in these noble, altruistic terms implies they gave a shit prior to Obama being in office since all of those things have been going on for decades, yet their breaking point is attempting to get us out of one of the worst recessions we've faced and to reform health care? REALLY?

[angrymissy]

Sorry, I believe the majority of people there are simply anti-Obama protesters, not anti-big Government. They're just repeating what Beck told them to say. He says it over and over on his show.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3503/3912840785_caa9d053a1.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3449/3912801983_75156cee9d.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2565/3912802651_46f7e1bcf9.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And once again, where were they the last 55+ years? Dressing it all up in these noble, altruistic terms implies they gave a shit prior to Obama being in office since all of those things have been going on for decades, yet their breaking point is attempting to get us out of one of the worst recessions we've faced and to reform health care? REALLY?

Not just healthcare, If that was the case, there would have been the same huge opposition to that back in 93-94

Theres the financial and auto bailouts, the Stimulus package, The Debt/Deficit levels for example those were probably the tipping point

There will always be the nutty 10% who look to Obamas race as a factor they are clueless

[yojimbo7248]

The people are sick and tired of being lectured to by these politicians

There is a disrespect for expertise that is annoying in America. I'm going to go out on a limb and say politicians who have been working on these issues for years know tons more than we do. Why shouldn't they lecture us? the biggest problem with the vast majority of people marching in Washington over the weekend is they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Too many Americans value feelings over thought too much. It's as though they feel in their guts so strongly that they think their opinions are valid. I wouldn't even call them opinions. They are just a feelings based on whatever crap they hear on the internet or Glenn Beck.

Vast majority of politicians treat us like children because so many people don't want to be lectured and prefer sound bites. They know screaming "You Lie" at the president will fire up the base more than presenting a carefully crafted counter health care proposal. it's just idiotic.

[HBox]

Not just healthcare, If that was the case, there would have been the same huge opposition to that back in 93-94

The opposition to health care reform in 94 was MUCH bigger than it is now.

[angrymissy]

Yeah, in '94 they were going apeshit over healthcare. But everyone didn't have the internet to get instant updates on it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There is a disrespect for expertise that is annoying in America. I'm going to go out on a limb and say politicians who have been working on these issues for years know tons more than we do. Why shouldn't they lecture us? the biggest problem with the vast majority of people marching in Washington over the weekend is they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Too many Americans value feelings over thought too much. It's as though they feel in their guts so strongly that they think their opinions are valid. I wouldn't even call them opinions. They are just a feelings based on whatever crap they hear on the internet or Glenn Beck.

Vast majority of politicians treat us like children because so many people don't want to be lectured and prefer sound bites. They know screaming "You Lie" at the president will fire up the base more than presenting a carefully crafted counter health care proposal. it's just idiotic.


Politicians know one thing. How to keep getting re elected. They are great at raising money for their campaigns. As far as legislation, I would trust Ron Pauls ideas for healthcare reform since he is a doctor over Pelosis.

[CurseoftheBambi]

Oh silly me, nothing was a problem until January 20, 2009.

Actually November 4, 2008.

[CurseoftheBambi]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iUsU3ekivv0/SqwxMSx0swI/AAAAAAAABPk/Il-RpEodiqU/s1600/jeebus.jpg

i apologize for the hawtness!

[TheMojoPin]

The opposition to health care reform in 94 was MUCH bigger than it is now.

I disagree with that. The breakdown of health care reform in the 90's was largely not due to public opposition (a majority of people polled favored reform during the entire process) but was due to the perception that there was huge opposition due to very specific and, quite frankly, brilliant information/disinformation PACs that targeted legislators and strove to get across the idea that there was huge opposition to the proposed reform. You look at things like the "Harry & Lousie" ads and their ilk and they were printed and aired almost totally in places like NYC and LA and Chicago and especially DC. Those ads and campaigns weren't for the public: they were targeted at our politicians. The media coupled this by continuing their steady abandonment as their role as watchdogs and bought into the PAC campaigns hook, line and sinker and didn't challenege a goddamn thing and simply reported on the campaings themselves without breaking them down. The PERCEPTION was created that there was massive opposition to health care reform across the country when in actuality there wasn't and the majority of the population supported reform. The Democrats shot themselves in the foot. I definitely think the actual public opposition and protest is far more significant and visible this time around then for the Clinton health care reform push. The opposition in the 90's was almost totally driven by PACs.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Tax Cuts and the wars are valid arguements on why the deficit ballooned to about 450 billion for FY 2008-09, However the amount of money spent in such little time is very alarming in my opinion when the stimulus was passed, the federal budget was passed this year, the omnibus spending bill, plus all the other bailouts, IE Wall st, AIG Fannie/Freddie. Geithner asked to have the debt ceilng raised to 12 trillion a couple of weeks ago. I just think that all of this is unsustainable, The interest on the debt is going to be hundreds of billions of dollars

Gold just hit $1000 an ounce last week, In the coming years probably the next 2-5 years inflation is going to come down like an avalanche

[west milly Tom]

THERE NEVER WAS A REALISTIC SINGLE PAYER PLAN. Not now, and not when they were pushing for reform under Clinton. The drive both times was to creat a government option and never to replace the private options. You say you're all for realistic debate, yet you continually drop things like this.


A government option is a single payer system. Obama stated flat out while campaigning that he wants a single payer system. They play the clips on anc multiple times a day. The government option trumps all other private options and will dominate. I know you're unfamiliar with how free enterprise works so let me spell it out for you. A company competing with other companies for profit has a budget and a limited amount of assets. No private company will be able to compete with the government run optiin as it will be less expensive. In addition when employers like mine have determined that steering employees to the public option will save them lots of money they will. Why would my company stay with etna when they could opt public? A combo of these two factors would wipe out private insurers and that is why the "public option" is just code for single payer. Better in other thread, sorry.

[Furtherman]

A combo of these two factors would wipe out private insurers and that is why the "public option" is just code for single payer. Better in other thread, sorry.

There are no "codes", this isn't cloak and dagger.

[TheMojoPin]

Oh good God.

Yeah, look at how that happened in Germany.

Wait, no it didn't.

Look to what Germany has as the model for what was proposed in the 90's and is being proposed now. The public option is designed to ideally reform the private options, not replace them. Replacing them with a single pay government-run system for all simply is not tenable. That is not a desireable outcome for the majority of people proposing health care reform.

[Furtherman]

Oh good God.

On the other hand, I do know that code.

[epo]

Have you seen the latest poll numbers for the public option?

Yes I have. When a non-biased poll in-which the definition of "public option" is explained, the Public Option is consistently polling around 70+% approval.

[west milly Tom]

Oh good God.

Yeah, look at how that happened in Germany.

Wait, no it didn't.

Look to what Germany has as the model for what was proposed in the 90's and is being proposed now. The public option is designed to ideally reform the private options, not replace them. Replacing them with a single pay government-run system for all simply is not tenable. That is not a desireable outcome for the majority of people proposing health care reform.


Again it was obama himself that said his end game was a single payer system. Then when that proved unpopular his story changed but the goal remained the same. The difference os now instead of ramming single payer through, its being part and parceled through. The protests were a great example of the response Obama will get every time he tries to slip one by. I was really excited to see that so many people showed.

[angrymissy]

Do you understand what a single payer health system is?

[west milly Tom]

Do you understand what a single payer health system is?



Enough insults.


Local police estimate attendance at 1.2 mil, media says closer to 2

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2009/09/13/how-many-people-actually-attended-that-big-rally-in-washington-yesterday/

[Furtherman]

Do you understand what a single payer health system is?

Enough insults.

Well, that's some kind of an answer, this time.

[badmonkey]

Sorry, I believe the majority of people there are simply anti-Obama protesters, not anti-big Government. They're just repeating what Beck told them to say. He says it over and over on his show.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3503/3912840785_caa9d053a1.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3449/3912801983_75156cee9d.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2565/3912802651_46f7e1bcf9.jpg

So you've got 3 posters that you found somewhere on the internet that prove to you that the "majority" of the people are simply anti-Obama. I posted over 100 pictures of the crowd and signs. Pictures that I personally took, not just found on the internet that show the exact opposite of what you're saying. You didn't go yourself and you can't even 100% guarantee that those pics you posted are even from this event. You also don't watch Glenn Beck so you have no idea what he says over and over on his show. I was there. I heard the speakers. I saw the signs. I talked to the people. You have zero clue what you're talking about.

[angrymissy]

Enough insults.


Local police estimate attendance at 1.2 mil, media says closer to 2

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2009/09/13/how-many-people-actually-attended-that-big-rally-in-washington-yesterday/

Wow, I wasn't aware asking you a question is an insult.

That is incorrect, local police and/or the media did not estimate at those numbers. Michelle Malkin posted that, incorrectly, early in the day, and bloggers ran with it. Did you read your link, becuase your link basically discusses how the 2 mil number is incorrect.

The estimate by the media across the board, including Fox, is 60-70k.

[angrymissy]

So you've got 3 posters that you found somewhere on the internet that prove to you that the "majority" of the people are simply anti-Obama. I posted over 100 pictures of the crowd and signs. Pictures that I personally took, not just found on the internet that show the exact opposite of what you're saying. You didn't go yourself and you can't even 100% guarantee that those pics you posted are even from this event. You also don't watch Glenn Beck so you have no idea what he says over and over on his show. I was there. I heard the speakers. I saw the signs. I talked to the people. You have zero clue what you're talking about.

I disagree. Where were all these people protesting during the Bush term then?

I watch Glenn Beck! I have to watch him at the Doctors Office (read in the fox thread), and I watch him to get a view on the other side as well. I watched his coverage of the Tea Party too... during which he kept repeating that its against big government, not against Obama.

I can't participate in the 9/12 project anyway, because #2 of the "9 Principles" is:
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

[TheMojoPin]

Again it was obama himself that said his end game was a single payer system. Then when that proved unpopular his story changed but the goal remained the same. The difference os now instead of ramming single payer through, its being part and parceled through. The protests were a great example of the response Obama will get every time he tries to slip one by. I was really excited to see that so many people showed.

His "end game?" Good Lord.

He's said that in an ideal situation he would prefer a single payer system. Numerous Democrats have stated that and see no reason to hide it. I fully agree with that. It's the equivalent of a Republican saying that in their perfect world they want a free market with zero government influence or oversight. We are not, however, in the ideal situation to pull it off, hence the public option instead. The single payer system right now in America simply is not realistic. It's no secret that one of the idealized goals of the Left would be a single payer system based on the idea that quality health care can be afforded for everyone in America. That's simply not a realistic option right now. There was never an intention to "ram through" a single payer plan at this point because a single payer plan has 0 chance of succeeding right now even if everyone was 100% behind it.

The ultimate goal of a single payer plan isn't hinged on some kind of overarching idea of putting in place a "socialist state" or desiring to "destroy private enterprise:" it's based on the idea that at some point America would be able to provide quality, affordable health care to its citizens. That's not a realistic option right now, nor was it in the 90's, hence the public option plan that ideally provides some measure of quality health care coverage to those that cannot afford it right now. If at some point down the line we're at the point where a single payer option is workable for everyone, hey, great...but that's not likely any time in the forseeable future.

[Furtherman]

#2 of the "9 Principles" is:
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

Oh good God.

[badmonkey]

I disagree. Where were all these people protesting during the Bush term then?

I watch Glenn Beck! I have to watch him at the Doctors Office (read in the fox thread), and I watch him to get a view on the other side as well. I watched his coverage of the Tea Party too... during which he kept repeating that its against big government, not against Obama.

I can't participate in the 9/12 project anyway, because #2 of the "9 Principles" is:
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

If that's the only one you disagree with, then you should have gone to the protest.

[angrymissy]

If that's the only one you disagree with, then you should have gone to the protest.

I'm not allowed. I don't follow rule #2. Even though the 912 project is supposed to bring Americans together like they came together after 9/11. I don't quite understand how that applies to the protests though.

To me that kind of seems like Beck exploiting 9/11 for his own political gain, and I'm in no way going to support anything like that.

[west milly Tom]

I'm not allowed. I don't follow rule #2. Even though the 912 project is supposed to bring Americans together like they came together after 9/11. I don't quite understand how that applies to the protests though.

To me that kind of seems like Beck exploiting 9/11 for his own political gain, and I'm in no way going to support anything like that.


Wow is that a stretch. The protest was not organized by beck. Your constant referrals to him tell me you're basing your arguments on seriously flawed information. You are aware of my perspective and never once have I referred to anyone as obermanite. Beck has as much place in rational debate as dueling pistols.

[badmonkey]

I'm not allowed. I don't follow rule #2. Even though the 912 project is supposed to bring Americans together like they came together after 9/11. I don't quite understand how that applies to the protests though.

To me that kind of seems like Beck exploiting 9/11 for his own political gain, and I'm in no way going to support anything like that.

So you can't protest if you don't believe in God? You can't protest if God is not the center of your life? You disagree with Bush's fiscal irresponsibility, but you have no problem with the massive amount of spending that Obama and the current congressional leadership has rammed through without even reading it? It doesn't bother you at all that the stimulus bill was written STORM, and not congress and then congress didn't bother to read it? You don't mind when Howard Dean tells you that there will be no tort reform in these bills at all because they don't wanna piss off the trial lawyers? These are the types of things that these people are angry about and why they are out protesting. Where were they during the Bush administration? They were beginning to get angry when the first stimulus package went through, but these people don't normally protest. Now they've seen that if they show up, they wont be alone. It's only going to get bigger.

I went down there to find out firsthand what it was about. You'd rather just sit around and hate on Beck while the guys in congress give themselves raises every year while they don't even write the bills, much less read them. This isn't about Glenn Beck. This is about the country you live in. Beck's not leading this, he's participating mostly through getting the word out about it. Nobody told me to go down there. My dad asked me if I wanted to go and I reluctantly went and was pleasantly surprised when I got there and saw what it actually was.

[angrymissy]

Wow is that a stretch. The protest was not organized by beck. Your constant referrals to him tell me you're basing your arguments on seriously flawed information. You are aware of my perspective and never once have I referred to anyone as obermanite. Beck has as much place in rational debate as dueling pistols.

I'm the one with arguments based on seriously flawed information?

Beck is the one who started the entire "912 project". If you think he did not get this protest started and did not take part in organizing it, you are incorrect. He's already planning for 2010

www.the912project.com

[Furtherman]

Wow is that a stretch. The protest was not organized by beck.

Yea, it was. He started the 9-12 project.

[angrymissy]

So you can't protest if you don't believe in God? You can't protest if God is not the center of your life? You disagree with Bush's fiscal irresponsibility, but you have no problem with the massive amount of spending that Obama and the current congressional leadership has rammed through without even reading it? It doesn't bother you at all that the stimulus bill was written STORM, and not congress and then congress didn't bother to read it? You don't mind when Howard Dean tells you that there will be no tort reform in these bills at all because they don't wanna piss off the trial lawyers? These are the types of things that these people are angry about and why they are out protesting. Where were they during the Bush administration? They were beginning to get angry when the first stimulus package went through, but these people don't normally protest. Now they've seen that if they show up, they wont be alone. It's only going to get bigger.

I went down there to find out firsthand what it was about. You'd rather just sit around and hate on Beck while the guys in congress give themselves raises every year while they don't even write the bills, much less read them. This isn't about Glenn Beck. This is about the country you live in. Beck's not leading this, he's participating mostly through getting the word out about it. Nobody told me to go down there. My dad asked me if I wanted to go and I reluctantly went and was pleasantly surprised when I got there and saw what it actually was.

I kid on the God thing. I just find it incredibly ironic that something proposed as bringing America together would use that, and I find it incredibly gross that Beck used 9/11 to propel this whole thing.

If I was local I would have probably checked it out in person, but I'm not local.

And lets be honest. Beck is leading this. He started 912 project, he promoted it heavily on his show and online.

[TheMojoPin]

Where were they during the Bush administration? They were beginning to get angry when the first stimulus package went through, but these people don't normally protest. Now they've seen that if they show up, they wont be alone. It's only going to get bigger.

So what?

I really have zero problem with people protesting since Lord knows I've done my share, but I can't help but be at least a little amused at these typs of kindasortamyabewhoknows ominous comments. Who cares if the protests get bigger? The only deciding factors in these issues is whether or not its perceived that they failed or succeeded, which ultimately has zero to do with any protests. It's not like people turned on the Iraq War because of the protesters: they turned on it because it went to shit. Significant numbers of people who voted for Obama and the Democrats aren't going to shift on government spending unless it's perceived that it fails (increased unemployment, companies reporting a ton of losses, failing stock market and other "easy" indicators).

[west milly Tom]

I'm the one with arguments based on seriously flawed information?

Beck is the one who started the entire "912 project". If you think he did not get this protest started and did not take part in organizing it, you are incorrect. He's already planning for 2010

www.the912project.com

Beck beck beck rush hannity beck bbbbbeck. I sincerely enjoy trading posts with you. Not a jab for real. The Beck stuff is silly though Missy.

[angrymissy]

Beck beck beck rush hannity beck bbbbbeck. I sincerely enjoy trading posts with you. Not a jab for real. The Beck stuff is silly though Missy.

No, it's not - again, he is the one who started the 9-12 project and organized this entire protest... and is already starting to organize the 2010 one.

He is a very relevant topic when it comes to this 9-12 protest.

[Furtherman]

The Beck stuff is silly though Missy.

Yea, it is silly, but there were thousands of silly willies in Washington over the weekend because they believe his bullshit.

[badmonkey]

So what?

I really have zero problem with people protesting since Lord knows I've done my share, but I can't help but be at least a little amused at these typs of kindasortamyabewhoknows ominous comments. Who cares if the protests get bigger? The only deciding factors in these issues is whether or not its perceived that they failed or succeeded, which ultimately has zero to do with any protests. It's not like people turned on the Iraq War because of the protesters: they turned on it because it went to shit. Significant numbers of people who voted for Obama and the Democrats aren't going to shift on government spending unless it's perceived that it fails (increased unemployment, companies reporting a ton of losses, failing stock market and other "easy" indicators).

So you skip all the relevant issues in that post and you take issue with the "its only going to get bigger" part. Does that mean you're fine with all those questions I brought up?

[TheMojoPin]

So you skip all the relevant issues in that post and you take issue with the "its only going to get bigger" part. Does that mean you're fine with all those questions I brought up?

Nope, and I've discussed most of them elsewhere. I only felt like addressing the part of your post that seemed like a new point of discussion.

[HBox]

I find it impossible to believe that it is the stimulus that is causing this kind of anger. Bush and Obama try to stave off an economic catastrophe, and it seems like they were successful in that, and people are really this angry that they didn't sit back and let the economy circle the shitter?

I do not buy it at all.

[TheMojoPin]

Apparently this photo is being passed around as "proof" of the size of the protests on the 12th:

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/104523/original.jpg

The problem? The National Museum of the American Indian is missing, meaning that it was taken at least 5 years ago.

[badmonkey]

Apparently this photo is being passed around as "proof" of the size of the protests on the 12th:

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/104523/original.jpg

The problem? The National Museum of the American Indian is missing, meaning that it was taken at least 5 years ago.

The biggest problem is that the event was in front of the Capitol building and you can see clearly that there are no people gathered around it. If it was from Saturday, you wouldn't be able to see the grass around the Capitol building. The number of people looks pretty close to other pictures I've seen, but they're just not in the right place. Who's passing that photo around? Your link shows Huffington Post.

[angrymissy]

The biggest problem is that the event was in front of the Capitol building and you can see clearly that there are no people gathered around it. If it was from Saturday, you wouldn't be able to see the grass around the Capitol building. The number of people looks pretty close to other pictures I've seen, but they're just not in the right place. Who's passing that photo around? Your link shows Huffington Post.

It made the rounds of a lot of blogs and political forums last night. It was a picture from a 1997 gathering of Promise Keepers in Washington, DC.

[TheMojoPin]

The biggest problem is that the event was in front of the Capitol building and you can see clearly that there are no people gathered around it. If it was from Saturday, you wouldn't be able to see the grass around the Capitol building. The number of people looks pretty close to other pictures I've seen, but they're just not in the right place. Who's passing that photo around? Your link shows Huffington Post.

The HP has a couple links to sites that were hosting the photo (and have now "corrected").

[badmonkey]

The HP has a couple links to sites that were hosting the photo (and have now "corrected").

Heh.

[TheMojoPin]

Heh.

538 also does a good breakdown. (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/size-matters-so-do-lies.html)

[Zorro]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n67/Chas4604/hannah_giles--300x300.jpg

[west milly Tom]

Weird random call in Hannity by Steven Baldwin.

[TheMojoPin]

Weird random call in Hannity by Steven Baldwin.

Everything Stephen Baldwin does can be classified as "weird and random."

[badmonkey]

Everything Stephen Baldwin does can be classified as "weird and random."

He was one of the speakers on Saturday. I couldn't hear him very well tho. I did lean over to my dad and tell him that Baldwin was nuts and possibly of the batshit variety. I decided that after I watched him on "Celebrity Apprentice" and "I'm a Celebrity Get Me Outta Here". The man is fucking strange.

[TheMojoPin]

He was one of the speakers on Saturday. I couldn't hear him very well tho. I did lean over to my dad and tell him that Baldwin was nuts and possibly of the batshit variety. I decided that after I watched him on "Celebrity Apprentice" and "I'm a Celebrity Get Me Outta Here". The man is fucking strange.

Yeah, he's definitely an odd one. The bastard managed to be in one great movie, otherwise I could just forget he exists.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yeah, he's definitely an odd one. The bastard managed to be in one great movie, otherwise I could just forget he exists.

The Flinstones in Viva Rock Vegas?

[HBox]

Yeah, he's definitely an odd one. The bastard managed to be in one great movie, otherwise I could just forget he exists.

Bio-Dome sure did rule.

[keithy_19]

Just to clarify, Beck did start the 9/12 project. He did not organize the rally down in Washington though. He had told people to go and make their voices heard in a peaceful way, and a lot of people decided to go to DC.

The idea of it is simply based on the way everyone in the country came together following 9/11. How everyone was helping each other and proud to be a citizen of the country. That feeling that America was united.

[TheMojoPin]

The Flinstones in Viva Rock Vegas?

http://www.editrix.ws/celebs/pics/415013/stephenbaldwin-fled.jpg

[HBox]

Just to clarify, Beck did start the 9/12 project. He did not organize the rally down in Washington though. He had told people to go and make their voices heard in a peaceful way, and a lot of people decided to go to DC.

The idea of it is simply based on the way everyone in the country came together following 9/11. How everyone was helping each other and proud to be a citizen of the country. That feeling that America was united.

Exploiting 9/11 to further your political agenda sure is awesome.

[TheMojoPin]

The idea of it is simply based on the way everyone in the country came together following 9/11. How everyone was helping each other and proud to be a citizen of the country. That feeling that America was united.

But that effectively was an "artificial" feeling since it was born entirely out of an abnormal and traumatic situation. It existed only because as a nation we had suffered horrible trauma. You can't have 9/12 without 9/11. It's total pie in the sky thinking that wants something while totally ignoring that a horrible, awful thing is the only reason it existed in the first place.

[Furtherman]

The idea of it is simply based on the way everyone in the country came together following 9/11.

No, it's not.

[keithy_19]

But that effectively was an "artificial" feeling since it was born entirely out of an abnormal and traumatic situation. It existed only because as a nation we had suffered horrible trauma. You can't have 9/12 without 9/11. It's total pie in the sky thinking that wants something while totally ignoring that a horrible, awful thing is the only reason it existed in the first place.

I don't think it was artificial. Tragedy makes you think of things differently and makes you remember what's really important in life. It's terrible that a tragedy is what reminded people. But I don't see it as exploiting 9/11 if you're just telling people to remember how it felt to be united and feel like we were all together.

[keithy_19]

No, it's not.

Ok. What's it based on then?

[epo]

Just to clarify, Beck did start the 9/12 project. He did not organize the rally down in Washington though. He had told people to go and make their voices heard in a peaceful way, and a lot of people decided to go to DC.

The idea of it is simply based on the way everyone in the country came together following 9/11. How everyone was helping each other and proud to be a citizen of the country. That feeling that America was united.

Like Glenn Beck ever gave a shit about 9/11 and the families of the victims. From Beck himself:

You know, it took me about a year to start hating the 9/11 victims' families. It took me about a year. Um, and I had such compassion for them and I really, you know, I wanted to help them, and I was behind -- let's give them money, let's get them started, and all of this stuff. And I really didn't -- all the 3,000 victims' families, I don't hate all of them, I hate about, probably about ten of them. But when I see 9/11 victim family, you know, on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up.' I'm so sick of them. Because they're always complaining. And we did our best for them.

Face it, Beck is gutless douche.

[TheMojoPin]

I don't think it was artificial. Tragedy makes you think of things differently and makes you remember what's really important in life. It's terrible that a tragedy is what reminded people. But I don't see it as exploiting 9/11 if you're just telling people to remember how it felt to be united and feel like we were all together.

It's not artificial in the sense that it wasn't genuine: I put it in quotes because it's artificial in the sense that it's something that can't happen without some kind of huge national tragedy or trauma causing it. You can't "make" it happen. You also can't get around the idea that it's exploiting 9/11 since the idea of "9/12" simply cannot exist without 9/11. It's essentially defined by 9/11. If it was just the lovey-dovey idea you're dressing it up as then it wouldn't be called "9/12" and would have nothing to do with 9/11 instead of inherrently having everything to do with 9/11. Call it the "unity movement" or something along those lines and espouse what you're saying...but that's very intentionally not what they're doing. "9/12" is totally calculated.

[Dan 'Hampton]

Like Glenn Beck ever gave a shit about 9/11 and the families of the victims. From Beck himself:



Face it, Beck is gutless douche.

I think you're secretly in love with him. That blonde morman makes you hard.

On another note my brother in law was creepily hit on
(not in a gay sex way, but odd curiosity)by Steven Baldwin at the Surf Club in Montauk Labor Day weekend.

[Furtherman]

Ok. What's it based on then?

Ratings for his show.

You can't recreate the feeling of 9/12/01, let alone turn it into some anti "big government" mirage. It's an empty protest, filled with too many people who don't have all the facts right and are protesting because carnies like Beck fill their naive minds with simple jargon and rhetoric.

[TheMojoPin]

Ok. What's it based on then?

Dressing up an anti-Obama/anti-Democrat/anti-Liberal movement under the guise of 9/11.

Mind you, I'm not critical of anyone for being anti any of those things or people: that's the basic nature of the American (and any democratic) political system. It's just bullshit to dress it up with this false message of "unity" when these people have zero intention of unifiying with anyone they view as different from them politically (and this would apply to anyone on the Left protesting in the same manner).

[angrymissy]

It's like MLC's unity party debacle.

[keithy_19]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n67/Chas4604/hannah_giles--300x300.jpg

I'm just happy that Acorn is corrupt so I can see more of her.

Got a feeling she'll get a job on Fox in the near future.

[badmonkey]

It's like MLC's unity party debacle.

Did Stephen Baldwin show up for that too?

[epo]

Did Stephen Baldwin show up for that too?

I can only imagine he'd go if it was Xtreme!

[The Jays]

The idea of it is simply based on the way everyone in the country came together following 9/11. How everyone was helping each other and proud to be a citizen of the country. That feeling that America was united.

What's funny about Beck doing this 912 Project based on that general idea of helping each other is the exact same reason why 9/11 was suggested to become a National Day of Service, but whenever it's a Democrat that proposes such good intentions, the right just has to smear it as being part of the grand plan to turn us all into socialists.

[CurseoftheBambi]

Yeah, he's definitely an odd one. The bastard managed to be in one great movie, otherwise I could just forget he exists.Shit and I was hoping you were going for this movie http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/83/Threesome_ver1.jpg

By the way wasn't he supposed to leave the Country when Obama got elected Pres? or did his bankruptcy hurt his moving ?:laugh:

[angrymissy]

Definition of uninformed

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4:20 is hilarious

6:55 "Czars came from Caesar in the Roman Times"

[badmonkey]

Definition of uninformed

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4:20 is hilarious

I could have gone to the anti-war rallies and interviewed enough people to edit together a video that made them all look dumb too. There are idiots and extremists at the ones organized by ANSWER too.

[Doogie]

Definition of uninformed

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4:20 is hilarious

6:55 "Czars came from Caesar in the Roman Times"

I don't know Missy, I am going to go with 4:45...that is priceless.

[Furtherman]

Definition of uninformed

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4:20 is hilarious

6:55 "Czars came from Caesar in the Roman Times"

Oh good lord.

I could have gone to the anti-war rallies and interviewed enough people to edit together a video that made them all look dumb too.

Knowing the Iraq war was wrong is common sense, which these people, and many, many, many of these people there are, have none.

[booster11373]

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