U.S. Senate votes to cut off federal funding to ACORN

[Doogie]

Well the story is out there, but I notice that there is no thread about it (Perhaps there is but I am too lazy to explore beyond the first page of the politics page.) NY Senator Kirsten Gillibrand one of 7 that voted against the amendment, bringing some heat to her:

"Even an outspoken liberal like Senator Schumer voted against ACORN, so why did Kirsten Gillibrand vote to protect them? New York's appointed senator owes every New York taxpayer a thorough explanation," said Brian Walsh, a spokesman for the Senate campaign arm



Senate attachment Senate Bill (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00275)

The votes for the bill (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00275)



Several story links: NY Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/probe_launched_as_senate_nixes_funds_EHbcP9vbNxA7t 7IdXLqnRL)

Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/09/house_gop_tries.html)

And of course, the always "truthful" FOX News with their spin: FOX NEWS Spin (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,550386,00.html)

[epo]

This was inevitable after the "pimp and ho" story went through. Seriously, who falls for that shit?

[boosterp]

And they got their census coop taken away late last week. This was a setup from the beginning it's just to bad after several tries these people were successful in mounting an attack against the organization.

[IMSlacker]

This is what they get for causing New Orleans to flood.

[badmonkey]

Had trouble figuring out what the Fox "spin" was.

This is the third video of the same two people getting advice from the third ACORN office on how to make their illegal prostitution business look legit so that they could try and use taxpayer money to buy a brothel for 13yr old illegals from El Salvador. How many videos do we need to see and how many "rogue" Acorn employees have to get fired before we realize that the videos are real and ACORN should no longer receive our tax money?

Charles Gibson was on the radio yesterday and said he didn't even know about this story, which started last week and has been completely ignored by almost every news outlet other than Fox.

Don: Okay, here’s my news question. A Senate bill yesterday passes, cutting off funds to this group called ACORN. Now, we got that bill passed and we have the embarrassing video of ACORN staffers giving tax advice on how to set up a brothel with 13-year-old hookers. It has everything you could want – corruption and sleazy action at tax-funded organizations and it’s got government ties. But nobody’s covering that story. Why?

Gibson: HAHAHAHAHA. HEHEHE. I didn’t even know about it. Um. So, you’ve got me at a loss. I don’t know. Uh. Uh. But my goodness, if it’s got everything including sleaziness in it, we should talk about it this morning.

Roma: This is the American way!

Gibson: Or maybe this is just one you leave to the cables.

Roma: Well, I think this is a huge issue because there’s so much funding that goes into this organization…

Gibson: I know we’ve done some stories about ACORN before, but this one I don’t know about…

Roma: Jake Tapper did some blogging on it. I know he’s blogged at least once on this scandal.

Gibson: You guys are uh really up on the website.

Michelle Malkin has the audio posted on her site. (http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/15/acorn-watch-charlie-gibson-and-the-ostrich-media/) I'm not really a fan, it's just the first place I found with the audio when I searched it. It should bother you that the main guy at ABC news admits on radio he didn't even know about the Senate vote to defund ACORN.

[Doogie]

Had trouble figuring out what the Fox "spin" was.

This is the third video of the same two people getting advice from the third ACORN office on how to make their illegal prostitution business look legit so that they could try and use taxpayer money to buy a brothel for 13yr old illegals from El Salvador. How many videos do we need to see and how many "rogue" Acorn employees have to get fired before we realize that the videos are real and ACORN should no longer receive our tax money?

Charles Gibson was on the radio yesterday and said he didn't even know about this story, which started last week and has been completely ignored by almost every news outlet other than Fox.



Michelle Malkin has the audio posted on her site. (http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/15/acorn-watch-charlie-gibson-and-the-ostrich-media/) I'm not really a fan, it's just the first place I found with the audio when I searched it. It should bother you that the main guy at ABC news admits on radio he didn't even know about the Senate vote to defund ACORN.

Your right about it not being a "spin." I was being a little fecitious there and beating what some would see as the spin. What happened when I went to search for more sources is that it is few and far between. I tried to include a link from CNN.com about the story, but couldnt find one. I ran one through their search thing and it directed me back to Foxnews.com. I found that to be very interesting.

[boosterp]

Your right about it not being a "spin." I was being a little fecitious there and beating what some would see as the spin. What happened when I went to search for more sources is that it is few and far between. I tried to include a link from CNN.com about the story, but couldnt find one. I ran one through their search thing and it directed me back to Foxnews.com. I found that to be very interesting.

CNN had it on their site but did cite Fox which was interesting.

[badmonkey]

Your right about it not being a "spin." I was being a little fecitious there and beating what some would see as the spin. What happened when I went to search for more sources is that it is few and far between. I tried to include a link from CNN.com about the story, but couldnt find one. I ran one through their search thing and it directed me back to Foxnews.com. I found that to be very interesting.

ahh... it was the quotes around "truthful" rather than around "spin" that threw me off. :)

[Doogie]

ahh... it was the quotes around "truthful" rather than around "spin" that threw me off. :)

I'm tired today...please forgive my errs.

[badmonkey]

I'm tired today...please forgive my errs.

Not until you apologize on the floor of the House.

[The Jays]

Then cut their funding, what do I care? Give the funding to someone else then. They hire dumb people.

[LordJezo]

Good.

ACORN today, maybe Al Qaeda tomorrow.

Although this is just a stunt by Obama to keep people from thinking about how terrible of a job he is doing it is at least a decent gesture. Most likely the money will go to another left wing organization with goals of nothing more than keeping Democrats in power, but it does feel nice to see ACORN crushed.

[The Jays]

Yeah, because Al Queda is a left wing organization.

[Doogie]

Not until you apologize on the floor of the House.

You Lie!!!

[The Jays]

lol, respect for the president is fascism.

[TheMojoPin]

Had trouble figuring out what the Fox "spin" was.

The long and short is that Fox has very clearly tried to spin ACORN as some kind of hopelessly evil and corrupt organization that exists pretty much only to steal and lie with zero mention of the multitiude of positive things it accomplished and the help it brought to millions for almost 40 years. That's not to say they shouldn't have reported on these recent findings, but they're examination of ACORN as a whole is obviously shortsighted and purposely narrowed only to what's not working and totally ignoring what is and what has.

I'm not going to pretend like ACORN doesn't have its flaws, nor that these videos don't show some serious problems, but I do think it's unfortunate that it jumped so quickly to effectively doing away with the organization altogether since ACORN has a long history going back to the 1970's of doing a lot of good for the poor and disenfranchised in this country. Despite the internal corruption and flaws that unfortunately tainted what ACORN accomplished, I think ultimately the country is much worse off without the organization.

I think your suggestion to "reform and not rewrite" would have been apt here.

[west milly Tom]

The long and short is that Fox has very clearly tried to spin ACORN as some kind of hopelessly evil and corrupt organization that exists pretty much only to steal and lie with zero mention of the multitiude of positive things it accomplished and the help it brought to millions for almost 40 years. That's not to say they shouldn't have reported on these recent findings, but they're examination of ACORN as a whole is obviously shortsighted and purposely narrowed only to what's not working and totally ignoring what is and what has.

I'm not going to pretend like ACORN doesn't have its flaws, nor that these videos don't show some serious problems, but I do think it's unfortunate that it jumped so quickly to effectively doing away with the organization altogether since ACORN has a long history going back to the 1970's of doing a lot of good for the poor and disenfranchised in this country. Despite the internal corruption and flaws that unfortunately tainted what ACORN accomplished, I think ultimately the country is much worse off without the organization.

I think your suggestion to "reform and not rewrite" would have been apt here.
ACORN is a corrupt organization that clearly was taking advantage of taxpayer dollars you're essentially saying "oh they're not so bad" and its total nonsense. They were caught red-handed doing exactly the thing they were accused of doing all along. They broke the law and advised others tp do the same all while using public funds. Your defense is lame and predictable. Just let it be what it is.

[Kublakhan61]

ACORN is a corrupt organization that clearly was taking advantage of taxpayer dollars you're essentially saying "oh they're not so bad" and its total nonsense. They were caught red-handed doing exactly the thing they were accused of doing all along. They broke the law and advised others tp do the same all while using public funds. Your defense is lame and predictable. Just let it be what it is.

Hardliners on either side are a sickening breed.

ACORN is actually not that bad. They've made mis-steps and they've abused the money they were given. But they've also done good, too. Do you know what they do? Do you know about their community outreach?

[foodcourtdruide]

Thank god. All of america's problems are solved.

[topless_mike]

The long and short is that Fox has very clearly tried to spin ACORN as some kind of hopelessly evil and corrupt organization that exists pretty much only to steal and lie with zero mention of the multitiude of positive things it accomplished and the help it brought to millions for almost 40 years. That's not to say they shouldn't have reported on these recent findings, but they're examination of ACORN as a whole is obviously shortsighted and purposely narrowed only to what's not working and totally ignoring what is and what has.

I'm not going to pretend like ACORN doesn't have its flaws, nor that these videos don't show some serious problems, but I do think it's unfortunate that it jumped so quickly to effectively doing away with the organization altogether since ACORN has a long history going back to the 1970's of doing a lot of good for the poor and disenfranchised in this country. Despite the internal corruption and flaws that unfortunately tainted what ACORN accomplished, I think ultimately the country is much worse off without the organization.

I think your suggestion to "reform and not rewrite" would have been apt here.

although i have more conservative views, i refuse to align with a party.
i like fox because they bring to light what the mainstream media obviously wont. fox does however, have this mentality of "with us or against us" when it comes to its hosts and opinions which i find to be undesirable.

that being said, i have to agree partially on what you said. perhaps acorn for many years did do some good and help people. i wont deny that because i simply do not know. if these have just come to light, its not impossible to think of how long this shit has gone on for and how widespread this may be.

[boosterp]

The long and short is that Fox has very clearly tried to spin ACORN as some kind of hopelessly evil and corrupt organization that exists pretty much only to steal and lie with zero mention of the multitiude of positive things it accomplished and the help it brought to millions for almost 40 years. That's not to say they shouldn't have reported on these recent findings, but they're examination of ACORN as a whole is obviously shortsighted and purposely narrowed only to what's not working and totally ignoring what is and what has.

I'm not going to pretend like ACORN doesn't have its flaws, nor that these videos don't show some serious problems, but I do think it's unfortunate that it jumped so quickly to effectively doing away with the organization altogether since ACORN has a long history going back to the 1970's of doing a lot of good for the poor and disenfranchised in this country. Despite the internal corruption and flaws that unfortunately tainted what ACORN accomplished, I think ultimately the country is much worse off without the organization.

I think your suggestion to "reform and not rewrite" would have been apt here.

During the election Fox attacked ACORN because they claimed to be non-partisan yet has a liberal funded wing. Then they went after ACORN on the fake voter IDs thing, now there are charges aligned with that in a couple states, now Fox concentrates on this housing controversy. Ultimately ACORN looses funding and has a black eye and yes their positive community involvement is unjustly overlooked.

I hate Fox news, gives me chills to be at my parent's house and hear Beck in the background, and wonder about the pros and cons of bringing this ACORN stuff to light.

[TheMojoPin]

ACORN is a corrupt organization that clearly was taking advantage of taxpayer dollars you're essentially saying "oh they're not so bad" and its total nonsense. They were caught red-handed doing exactly the thing they were accused of doing all along. They broke the law and advised others tp do the same all while using public funds. Your defense is lame and predictable. Just let it be what it is.

Where did I say that this is "not so bad?" I was pointing out that Fox's coverage was completely one-sided and focused solely on the bad while completely ignoring almost 40 years of the massive amount of good that ACORN accomplished for the poor and disenfranchised across the country. Take a look at the list of their accomplishments and honestly try and tell me that ACORN is only the corrupt, evil organization that Fox blatantly wanted it to be seen as. None of what came to light should have been ignored, but it also should have been presented in the context of reality and not this insane "ACORN killed New Orleans"-type rhetoric.

Nowhere am I saying what they were caught on should be ignored: my point is that it's dishonest to present that as the identity of the entire organization and its history and I think it's foolhardy for the Senate to essentially leap to killing ACORN altogether basically due to some sensational and hysterical journalism. A thourough federal investigation should have been done of ACORN in the wake of this and their federal funding should have been suspended while that occured and ideally ACORN and the investigators cleaned house. Despite the serious flaws towards the end, the poor need an organization like ACORN and eliminating it completely does far more damage to this country than the corruption that was taking place.

[The Jays]

I cannot believe that the right is willing to blame ACORN for the destruction of New Orleans, rather than 1) a hurricane, 2) a federal failure to fund the levees 3) a federal failure to wait a week before sending help to New Orleans.

I'm sure they will find a way to blame ACORN for lying about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction.

[SouthSideJohnny]

I cannot believe that the right is willing to blame ACORN for the destruction of New Orleans

Other than Glenn Beck's idiotic comment, has anyone else from "the right" said that? More particularly, has any elected Republican official said that?

Beck, Rush, etc. . . have large audiences, but they don't speak officially for the right any more that Bill Maher, Janeane Garofalo, or Olberman speak for the left.

Are there Republican idiots that will believe this? Yes. And are there Democratic idiots that believe every word out said by Garofalo or Olberman? Yes. Then why don't you label and judge "the left" based on those few idiots?

[TheMojoPin]

Other than Glenn Beck's idiotic comment, has anyone else from "the right" said that? More particularly, has any elected Republican official said that?

Beck, Rush, etc. . . have large audiences, but they don't speak officially for the right any more that Bill Maher, Janeane Garofalo, or Olberman speak for the left.

Are there Republican idiots that will believe this? Yes. And are there Democratic idiots that believe every word out said by Garofalo or Olberman? Yes. Then why don't you label and judge "the left" based on those few idiots?

While I disagree with TheJays generalization of "the Right" and agree that Beck and Hannity and their ilk don't officially speak for the Republican Party, it's pretty hard to not notice the direct impact and influence their rhetoric is having in and on the GOP over the past year or so. By contrast, it's difficult to see such pervasive influence coming from what few liberal pundits are out there that have anything that barely resembles the audiences and reach of their conservative counterparts.

[boosterp]

I cannot believe that the right is willing to blame ACORN for the destruction of New Orleans, rather than 1) a hurricane, 2) a federal failure to fund the levees 3) a federal failure to wait a week before sending help to New Orleans.

I'm sure they will find a way to blame ACORN for lying about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction.

You need to review your history, or is this more revisionist bull shit?

Federal money to reinforce the levees was diverted as far back as 1990 when an faulty analysis showed strong soil, enough to withhold against a 14 ft surge.

[The Jays]

It's not revisionist bullshit. The Army Corps of Engineers were the ones who maintained the levees. It was known that the levees could not withstand a hurricane above a Category 3. There were scenarios known where a major hurricane strike on New Orleans would be catastrophic. The federal government chose not to invest in a levee system which would work.

[Syd]

It was unreasonable to assume a hurricane greater than that was forecast would hit and destroy the levees. Although it was statistically a non-zero chance of Katrina happening, it wasn't a sufficient enough threat to build up the levees beyond their condition.

It'd be like forcing buildings in New York to be built to code for buildings built in California. Yes, there is a risk of an earthquake in NYC but the risk of any severe earthquake isn't worth the cost. So what do you do? You build to the legitimate risk of an earthquake, not to an earthquake that is unforeseen and highly unlikely.

[The Jays]

Fine. That doesn't excuse the government for waiting a week before they showed up.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fine. That doesn't excuse the government for waiting a week before they showed up.

FEMA was a joke, totally incompetent However the failure at the local and state level hardly ever gets noticed. Nagin and the Governor at that time, forgot her name had 5 days to get prepared and they failed big time

[Dude!]

FEMA was a joke, totally incompetent However the failure at the local and state level hardly ever gets noticed. Nagin and the Governor at that time, forgot her name had 5 days to get prepared and they failed big time

Brownie did a helluva job

[boosterp]

FEMA was a joke, totally incompetent However the failure at the local and state level hardly ever gets noticed. Nagin and the Governor at that time, forgot her name had 5 days to get prepared and they failed big time

Thank you! It was local contractors (yes the Corps of Engineers should of provided more oversight) who ran with federal funds.

[shittles]

ACORN - Assorted Cunty Obese Rectal Nurses. I hate those fuckers!

[The Jays]

quite the witty acronym.

[Dude!]

quite the witty acronym.

you should have said:

QTWA

[SouthSideJohnny]

While I disagree with TheJays generalization of "the Right" and agree that Beck and Hannity and their ilk don't officially speak for the Republican Party, it's pretty hard to not notice the direct impact and influence their rhetoric is having in and on the GOP over the past year or so. By contrast, it's difficult to see such pervasive influence coming from what few liberal pundits are out there that have anything that barely resembles the audiences and reach of their conservative counterparts.

I disagree with your premise. The only reason the same exact argument can't be made for the left is that they just don't have the same audience that right wings hosts do (see Air America). Also, don'f forget that the "left" talk radio hosts and bloggers led the charge on the anti-Bush agenda, and much of the Democratic party followed after the base was heading in that direction.

I keep hearing that Rush and Hannity are impacting and influencing the party, but I'm not sure I see that happening. For example, I hear alot on the talk shows about the birth certificate issue and Obama is a muslim, but is the Republican party (outside of a few representatives) really taking those same positions? [I'm sure I'm missing other issues, and I'm equally sure that several posters here will quickly point them out.] It's no different than the left-leaning hosts saying Bush knew about or planned 9/11. I don't consider that a "left" position since the vast majority of elected Democrats aren't taking that position officially.

Sure, there are times where the talk show hosts have the same position as the party, but that happens on both sides. Maybe the official party position on issues does change over time, but you can't blame/attribute that to Rush/Hannity. If they throw out bullshit theories on 100 issues, and the party position evolves on a few issues, is it really due to the Rush/Hannity influence?

If anything, Bush took the Republican party away from its traditional positions and many of the protesters (teabaggers) are trying to get back there. Pre-Bush, the official Republican platform was small government and fiscal conservatism. Bush didn't support either of those ideas. [To answer the inevitable question, yes I did complain about that incessantly when he was in office to every Republican I know.] Now that people are seeing what's happened over the past 8 years TOGETHER WITH the stimulus (spending) in the last 9 months and the prospective deficits going forward, they're concerned.

Are some of the protesters racist? Sure. Are some simply following marching orders from a talk show host? Yep. However, there are also alot of upset and concerned middle of the road people that think for themselves, and many of the democrats are doing a disservice to the party by portraying all protesters as astro-turf racists.

Getting back to Acorn, why is it that the mainstream media (outside of Fox) didn't report on that story until the last day or two? Frankly, I do see a systemic problem with Acorn. They're under investigation in 13 (?) states and they recently had several representatives in Miami charged with voter fraud. Then we find out that at least two offices are counseling hookers and pimps how to circumvent tax laws. How many stories like that are necessary before it's worth reporting and evaluating whether the fed government should keep funding Acorn? Say what you will about Fox, but if it wasn't for them, the story never would have seen the light of day. I strongly suspect that if it was a Republican-friendly organization doing the same exact things, the media would have been all over the story.

[The Jays]

What left radio hosts? Seriously, the handful of Air America hosts led the country to turn on Bush? I'm pretty sure his failure in Iraq, his failure with Katrina, and then the failure of the economy turned the country rather than a low rated radio network.

On the other side, Fox News is the #1 cable new network. Rush is the #1 talk show host in the country. You can observe the direct influence the right wing media has by looking at the protests. Sure, they don't officially represent the Republican party. But they feed the base their talking points, they feed propaganda about everything that's progressive and liberal, and always in a negative manner.

And no one reports on ACORN because no one gives a shit. The current issues have been about getting health care reform passed, about whether the stock market will tank this September, what lessons we've learned from last year, whether we need more troops in Afghanistan, when the new jobs are going to start coming... Only Fox News focuses on chipping away at the legitimacy of the President. They couldn't do it with voter fraud, they couldn't do it with birth certificates, they couldn't do it with death panels, so now they are relying on a couple of people punk'ing some morons who work in ACORN offices, and they've struck gold.

[Ogre]

really who tagged this thread ? does anyone else find this disturbing?

[The Jays]

http://www.newshounds.us/2009/09/16/fox_news_punked_by_acorn.php

On Hannity, as on Beck, earlier, viewers were treated to ACORN’s Tresa Kaelke's story about how she used to work for an escort service, her tips for how Giles and O’Keefe might cover up their prostitution business in order to acquire a home for themselves and their underage girls from El Salvador, and the “explosive” news that Kaelka had killed her husband.

The only problem? It’s not true. As ACORN has stated in its press release,

“They were not believable", said Ms. Kaelke of the two actors. "Somewhat entertaining, but they weren't even good actors. I didn't know what to make of them. They were clearly playing with me. I decided to shock them as much as they were shocking me. Like Stephan Colbert does – saying the most outrageous things with a straightface." While her sense of humor might not be funny to many people, the fact is that she spun false scenario after false scenario and the videographer ate them up.
ACORN provided a copy of a San Bernardino police report of their investigation into the “homicide” of Kaelke’s husband. The police concluded, “the claims do not appear to be factual. Investigators have been in contact with the involved party’s known former husbands, who are alive and well.”

ACORN also points out that the fact that the filmmakers, Breitbart and Fox presented the video as truth, without any independent investigation, calls into question all of their journalistic standards. The organization also questioned why some footage that reflected well on ACORN had been edited out of the video.

“Did you ever check to see if in fact she (Kaelka) had a husband that was killed?” he asked Giles.

“We’re working on that,” Giles answered evasively. Funny, I thought journalists were supposed to finish their investigation before they issue their reports. And if nothing else, you’d think Giles or Breitbart, if he was so concerned about vetting stories, would have revealed up front that they didn’t know if Kaelke were really a murderess, instead of waiting for Hannity to ask, much later in the interview.

[keithy_19]

http://www.newshounds.us/2009/09/16/fox_news_punked_by_acorn.php

So all of the ACORN people were just 'playing' along? Oh. OK. Case closed.

[The Jays]

No. The link does not say that. This is where reading comes in handy. It says that the woman in San Bernadino was messing with them, saying that she killed her husband and that she runs a prostitute business herself, and that Beck and Hannity and Breitbart ran with it, without checking the facts, and Hannity then asked Giles if she had followed up, and she said they were looking into it.

[west milly Tom]

http://www.newshounds.us/2009/09/16/fox_news_punked_by_acorn.php

“They were not believable", said Ms. Kaelke of the two actors. "Somewhat entertaining, but they weren't even good actors. I didn't know what to make of them. They were clearly playing with me. I decided to shock them as much as they were shocking me. Like Stephan Colbert does – saying the most outrageous things with a straightface." While her sense of humor might not be funny to many people, the fact is that she spun false scenario after false scenario and the videographer ate them up.


haha, I was only jokin...

[keithy_19]

No. The link does not say that. This is where reading comes in handy. It says that the woman in San Bernadino was messing with them, saying that she killed her husband and that she runs a prostitute business herself, and that Beck and Hannity and Breitbart ran with it, without checking the facts, and Hannity then asked Giles if she had followed up, and she said they were looking into it.

It just seemed like, by you giving the example, that you're saying ACORN was cleared.

And I don't know, it doesn't really seem like a situation where you shold be messing around. That's just me though.

[west milly Tom]

No. The link does not say that. This is where reading comes in handy. It says that the woman in San Bernadino was messing with them, saying that she killed her husband and that she runs a prostitute business herself, and that Beck and Hannity and Breitbart ran with it, without checking the facts, and Hannity then asked Giles if she had followed up, and she said they were looking into it.

and this is what you believe?

[The Jays]

It just seemed like, by you giving the example, that you're saying ACORN was cleared.

And I don't know, it doesn't really seem like a situation where you shold be messing around. That's just me though.

By me giving the example? It's a link, it's related to this topic, and it seems interesting to me that with all this intensive investigative journalism taking place that none of them bothered to follow up on her claim that she killed her husband.

If someone is fucking around with you, came into your office, and started saying "oh hey, I wanna get a mortgage and I run a brothel and I'm bringing some underage girls from El Salvador to work for me" so much that you can figure out they are fucking lying and trying to fuck with you, some people with a sense of humor would fuck with them back. If the situation is one where the other party is blatently fucking with you, why would you bother to take that seriously when the other party isn't? Let's not forget the fact that these people were going into their office and recording them without their consent.

[The Jays]

and this is what you believe?

Please, you believe that a family of 4 can afford health insurance on $75 K a year, you're in no position to question what I believe.

[badmonkey]

Hurricane Elena in 1985 was projected towards New Orleans. (http://books.google.com/books?id=Ef_mQf6Z1mAC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=%22hurricane+elena%22+%22new+orleans%22&source=bl&ots=e1HtMEPFVl&sig=fphIGtLwK1cFxh_iAuFcvoi7T2E&hl=en&ei=5KSxSvWBBMaj8AaI8rCbBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=%22hurricane%20elena%22%20%22new%20orleans%22&f=false) I lived in Biloxi, MS for this storm. This is what was said at the time about New Orleans, the levees, and hurricanes. Everybody on the Gulf Coast knows this. They talk about it EVERY time a tropical storm enters the Gulf of Mexico, whether it turns into a hurricane or not. Kanye, Spike, and some of you are clueless on the subject and it shows.

[The Jays]

Oh, I apologize then. Obviously, the government did everything they could have done. Please, forgive me for my cluelessness, for I am merely some douchebag from New York.

[underdog]

By me giving the example? It's a link, it's related to this topic, and it seems interesting to me that with all this intensive investigative journalism taking place that none of them bothered to follow up on her claim that she killed her husband.

If someone is fucking around with you, came into your office, and started saying "oh hey, I wanna get a mortgage and I run a brothel and I'm bringing some underage girls from El Salvador to work for me" so much that you can figure out they are fucking lying and trying to fuck with you, some people with a sense of humor would fuck with them back. If the situation is one where the other party is blatently fucking with you, why would you bother to take that seriously when the other party isn't? Let's not forget the fact that these people were going into their office and recording them without their consent.

Just quit trying to explain any of this. This is one of the worst excuses I've ever heard. "I WAS KIDDING!"

Even if they were kidding once, what about all the other videos?

[The Jays]

Nothing excuses the other morons that fell for this shit. But to not follow up when one of the people you are exposing says they killed a man, doesn't really help your credentials as an independent investigative journalist. That is the point I am trying to get. I am NOT trying to make excuses for ACORN.

[Syd]

They're not journalists, they're agent provocateurs with partisan backing intent on dismantling ACORN. They're just hitmen, shallow soulless individuals who will do anything for money. It's not surprising and quite revealing that they opted to go for prostitution as their story to unfold onto ACORN.

[keithy_19]

They're not journalists, they're agent provocateurs with partisan backing intent on dismantling ACORN. They're just hitmen, shallow soulless individuals who will do anything for money. It's not surprising and quite revealing that they opted to go for prostitution as their story to unfold onto ACORN.

Um...wow.

[The Jays]

Yeah, I'm sure these were great Americans who just want to protect our freedoms.

[Syd]

Um...wow.

Any credibility they had went out the door when they rushed a video to public without checking about anything said in the video.

[keithy_19]

Any credibility they had went out the door when they rushed a video to public without checking about anything said in the video.

So, the real victim here is ACORN...

[epo]

So, the real victim here is ACORN...

This look at Fox News' report is a pretty damning look at their journalistic integrity. (http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/fox-gets-punkd-acorn-volunteer-knew)

[TheMojoPin]

While the journalistic standards here are practically non-existent, I seriously doubt that none of what was exposed was just the result of crappy journalism. ACORN has had internal problems in the past and it wouldn't be surprising to see more now. It's just unfortunate that a quality journalistic expose didn't occur that would have ideally resulted in ACORN being investigated and cleaned up as opposed to effectively shut down.

[epo]

While the journalistic standards here are practically non-existent, I seriously doubt that none of what was exposed was just the result of crappy journalism. ACORN has had internal problems in the past and it wouldn't be surprising to see more now.

I concur. Its safe to say we're all losers for tolerating all of the players in this whole incident.

[The Jays]

So, the real victim here is ACORN...

Are you having trouble with the concept of journalistic integrity? These two had a specific agenda... they went to various offices...most of the people were morons and fell into their trap... one person decide to fuck with them... instead of following up on her claims, they just reported it like it was fact that she killed her husband and ran a prostitution ring on the side herself... the integrity of ACORN is already under fire, but now the integrity of this whole investigation should be under fire. We're all dumber now thanks to Fox News wasting a week of our lives with this bullshit

[keithy_19]

Are you having trouble with the concept of journalistic integrity? These two had a specific agenda... they went to various offices...most of the people were morons and fell into their trap... one person decide to fuck with them... instead of following up on her claims, they just reported it like it was fact that she killed her husband and ran a prostitution ring on the side herself... the integrity of ACORN is already under fire, but now the integrity of this whole investigation should be under fire. We're all dumber now thanks to Fox News wasting a week of our lives with this bullshit

Regardless of journalistic integrity, I personally think that the thought of any organization or any person being ok with human trafficking and underage girls being exploited is absolutely horrifying. The fact these two young people found this out and ran with it to me isn't what the focus of the story should be.

[Dude!]

This look at Fox News' report is a pretty damning look at their journalistic integrity. (http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/fox-gets-punkd-acorn-volunteer-knew)

And these people like to fancy themselves "investigative journalists." More like ethics-deprived fanatics out to score political smear points.

the same could be said about
that fat freak michael moore

[Reephdweller]

This is great...

<table style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" width="360" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="353"><tbody><tr style="background-color: rgb(229, 229, 229);" valign="middle"><td style="padding: 2px 1px 0px 5px;">The Daily Show With Jon Stewart (http://www.thedailyshow.com)</td><td style="padding: 2px 5px 0px; text-align: right; font-weight: bold;">Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style="height: 14px;" valign="middle"><td style="padding: 2px 1px 0px 5px;" colspan="2">The Audacity of Hos (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-15-2009/the-audacity-of-hos)</td></tr><tr style="height: 14px; background-color: rgb(53, 53, 53);" valign="middle"><td colspan="2" style="padding: 2px 5px 0px; overflow: hidden; width: 360px; text-align: right;">www.thedailyshow.com (http://www.thedailyshow.com/)</td></tr><tr valign="middle"><td style="padding: 0px;" colspan="2"><embed style="display: block;" src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:248916" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="window" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="autoPlay=false" allowscriptaccess="always" allownetworking="all" bgcolor="#000000" width="360" height="301"></td></tr><tr style="height: 18px;" valign="middle"><td style="padding: 0px;" colspan="2"><table style="margin: 0px; text-align: center;" width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%"><tbody><tr valign="middle"><td style="padding: 3px; width: 33%;">Daily Show
Full Episodes (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes)</td><td style="padding: 3px; width: 33%;">Political Humor (http://www.indecisionforever.com)</td><td style="padding: 3px; width: 33%;">Healthcare Protests (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-17-2009/heal-or-no-heal---medicine-brawl)</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

[Dan 'Hampton]

This is great...

<table style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);" width="360" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="353"><tbody><tr style="background-color: rgb(229, 229, 229);" valign="middle"><td style="padding: 2px 1px 0px 5px;">The Daily Show With Jon Stewart (http://www.thedailyshow.com)</td><td style="padding: 2px 5px 0px; text-align: right; font-weight: bold;">Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style="height: 14px;" valign="middle"><td style="padding: 2px 1px 0px 5px;" colspan="2">The Audacity of Hos (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-15-2009/the-audacity-of-hos)</td></tr><tr style="height: 14px; background-color: rgb(53, 53, 53);" valign="middle"><td colspan="2" style="padding: 2px 5px 0px; overflow: hidden; width: 360px; text-align: right;">www.thedailyshow.com (http://www.thedailyshow.com/)</td></tr><tr valign="middle"><td style="padding: 0px;" colspan="2"><embed style="display: block;" src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:248916" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="window" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="autoPlay=false" allowscriptaccess="always" allownetworking="all" bgcolor="#000000" width="360" height="301"></td></tr><tr style="height: 18px;" valign="middle"><td style="padding: 0px;" colspan="2"><table style="margin: 0px; text-align: center;" width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%"><tbody><tr valign="middle"><td style="padding: 3px; width: 33%;">Daily Show
Full Episodes (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes)</td><td style="padding: 3px; width: 33%;">Political Humor (http://www.indecisionforever.com)</td><td style="padding: 3px; width: 33%;">Healthcare Protests (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-17-2009/heal-or-no-heal---medicine-brawl)</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

That was the first i'd seen of the videos. Great bit.

[The Jays]

Regardless of journalistic integrity, I personally think that the thought of any organization or any person being ok with human trafficking and underage girls being exploited is absolutely horrifying. The fact these two young people found this out and ran with it to me isn't what the focus of the story should be.

The organization doesn't have a chapter in the training manual on how to work with underage prostitution rings. These were dumb individuals in every case.

And the focus should be on these idiots who work for ACORN, yes, but you cannot remove the fact that this was done by "journalists" with a conservative agenda, and their goal was to find something that they could smear ACORN with. THey found it. It's not like they were ever going to do a story on the good that ACORN has done. I known Glen Beck would like you to think these were independent journalists, but that's not the case, and you can't ignore that no matter how much he would like you to.

[underdog]

The organization doesn't have a chapter in the training manual on how to work with underage prostitution rings. These were dumb individuals in every case.

And the focus should be on these idiots who work for ACORN, yes, but you cannot remove the fact that this was done by "journalists" with a conservative agenda, and their goal was to find something that they could smear ACORN with. THey found it. It's not like they were ever going to do a story on the good that ACORN has done. I known Glen Beck would like you to think these were independent journalists, but that's not the case, and you can't ignore that no matter how much he would like you to.

Just because they had an agenda doesn't make what they discovered any better or worse.

Watch that Daily Show video and stop trying to justify anything.

[Syd]

Regardless of journalistic integrity, I personally think that the thought of any organization or any person being ok with human trafficking and underage girls being exploited is absolutely horrifying. The fact these two young people found this out and ran with it to me isn't what the focus of the story should be.

You mean, the fact that the girl is the daughter of the townhall.com founder and the guy is an anti-choice zealot were instructed by their puppetmasters to conduct a smear campaign through any means necessary, including but not limited to introducing any sort of claims they wanted to lure an ACORN office worker into discrediting their own organization.

The focus of the story is that the media, or Fox in this case, has completely failed to report on facts and instead of looking for bigger ratings and more frothing from their viewers. Their integrity extends no more than their corporate mission for profit. Due to their latest video, you have to call into question everything O'Keefe and Giles conducted as part of their "investigation".

I don't think you understand the injustice served on the American people -- sure, they uncovered that ACORN might commit fraudulent activity but in the process put another significant dent into the pillar of the American political system. The media must act on behalf of the public, not itself. Conservatives were once outraged over Dan Rather and the extremely questionable documents presented on Bush's National Guard service. Despite their icon being that of an elephant, conservatives do forget.

[Reephdweller]

Regardless of the political agenda of whoever makes these types of videos, the fact is people in these types of organizations (on both sides of the political fence and in general) should not be having these types of discussions or having people like the now 5 (i think) separate video incidents.

I think the thing that gets me the most and is probably the most amazing part as even Jon Stewart pointed out is the shear casualness that almost every one of the people in these videos has had when these two would ask each of them about prostitution.

[TheMojoPin]

the same could be said about
that fat freak michael moore

Michael Moore isn't a journalist.

[TheMojoPin]

Regardless of the political agenda of whoever makes these types of videos, the fact is people in these types of organizations (on both sides of the political fence and in general) should not be having these types of discussions or having people like the now 5 (i think) separate video incidents.

I think the thing that gets me the most and is probably the most amazing part as even Jon Stewart pointed out is the shear casualness that almost every one of the people in these videos has had when these two would ask each of them about prostitution.

The issue to me is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If these videos are legit, then what they found is inexcusable and those people should be fired and ACORN should be investigated by the Justice Department before they receive any further federal funding. It's distressing to see the current course of action, which seems designed to get rid of ACORN altogether when ACORN has provided critical services and help (yes, that is all legal) for the poor and disenfranchised across the country for almost 40 years now. Cleaning house would definitely be in order, but basically eliminating ACORN as a whole is not a good thing in the grand scheme of things.

[angrymissy]

I just think it's funny that she had them figured out and fucked with them. She should have taken it even farther.

The worker who believed that chick was really a prostitute is an idiot. Worst fake prostitute outfit ever.

[TheMojoPin]

I just think it's funny that she had them figured out and fucked with them. She should have taken it even farther.

The worker who believed that chick was really a prostitute is an idiot. Worst fake prostitute outfit ever.

The employee claiming that she messed with them could very easily be saying that after the fact to try and cover her ass. It's very damning that it occured in 3 seperate locations. It's not impossible that all 3 locations were just "fucking with them," but it seems unlikely given the content seen in the videos.

I'm curious to see how many ACORN offices the duo went to in total with these questions. If they say they only went to these 3 at random, that's as suspect as the woman claiming she was just "playing along."

[angrymissy]

The employee claiming that she messed with them could very easily be saying that after the fact to try and cover her ass. It's very damning that it occured in 3 seperate locations. It's not impossible that all 3 locations were just "fucking with them," but it seems unlikely given the content seen in the videos.

I'm curious to see how many ACORN offices the duo went to in total with these questions. If they say they only went to these 3 at random, that's as suspect as the woman claiming she was just "playing along."

That's what I thought too, but she said she murdered her ex-husband, but apparently the police investigated and he's not dead.

Still, worst fake prostitute outfit ever.

[underdog]

Regardless of the political agenda of whoever makes these types of videos, the fact is people in these types of organizations (on both sides of the political fence and in general) should not be having these types of discussions or having people like the now 5 (i think) separate video incidents.

I think the thing that gets me the most and is probably the most amazing part as even Jon Stewart pointed out is the shear casualness that almost every one of the people in these videos has had when these two would ask each of them about prostitution.

Absolutely.

This thread has turned retarded, though. No one here can think outside of their fucking political spectrum. Fuck, Jon Stewart is more open and honest than everyone here.

[TheMojoPin]

Absolutely.

This thread has turned retarded, though. No one here can think outside of their fucking political spectrum. Fuck, Jon Stewart is more open and honest than everyone here.

Yes and no. I'm definitely not trying to let ACORN off the hook here: this is unacceptable behavior coming from that organization and it needs to be dealth with both by ACORN itself and by the Jusice Department. At the same time, I'm trying to point out the bigger picture of how doing away with ACORN altogether would be a mistake. There should be a middle ground in this situation where the problems are addressed and dealt with but ACORN still exists.

[Dude!]

Absolutely.

This thread has turned retarded, though. No one here can think outside of their fucking political spectrum. Fuck, Jon Stewart is more open and honest than everyone here.

yes and yes.

[SouthSideJohnny]

What left radio hosts? Seriously, the handful of Air America hosts led the country to turn on Bush?

Seriously Jays, step away from the 100% partisan view for a minute. You have to recognize that there is influence on "the left" from other sources, i.e., DailyKos, Huffington Post, Chris Matthews, Keith Olberman, NYT, Newsweek, MoveOne.org, Rachel Madow, MSNBC, CNN (most of the time), Daily Show . . . . Also, Air America did have a full time lineup attacking Bush during much of his 4 years. That fact that it was ultimately a failure doesn't negate the fact that its hosts were right there leading the anti-Bush charge. If anything, I give "the left" credit for having a much larger, multi-faceted influence program.

On the other side, Fox News is the #1 cable new network. Rush is the #1 talk show host in the country.

Ever think that maybe they're #1 because they are saying what a large part of the country wants to hear? Like Ronnie has said, people listen to commentators who support their viewpoint. Believe it or not, there might actually be a few people that listen to Rush and watch Fox in order to gain a perspective that the rest of the media sources don't provide. That doesn't mean they're automatons blindly following everything they see and hear.

But they feed the base their talking points, they feed propaganda about everything that's progressive and liberal, and always in a negative manner.

How many times do we have to read this shit about feeding "talking points"? Every time I see a post in this forum from a "conservative" or "republican," there is a weak attempt to discredit the position, without addressing the substance of it, by saying the poster is following the talking points. Guess what, every liberal I know parrots Olberman and the Daily Kos. How is that any different? I must be missing all of the positive commentary on conservatism coming from the progressive/liberal commentators. I guess it's buried deep behind the "hateful," "selfish," "racist," "stupid," "astro-turf," and "prejudiced" rhetoric that's on the surface of their commentary.

And no one reports on ACORN because no one gives a shit.

I've read your posts Jays - I disagree with you on alot of things, but I can see that you are an intelligent person. You can't really believe that? No one reports on Acorn because there is large-scale media support for Obama, Acorn helped get Obama elected, Obama supports Acorn, and Acorn helps further Obama's agendas.

Of course, there is a lot of stuff going on that's much more important that Acorn, but that doesn't mean that every issue outside of health care and budget deficits gets a pass. Alot of our federal tax dollars are going to fund Acorn, so there should be reporting on its operations, especially since it's being investigated in so many states. Masses of people are not turning off Rush and Fox because they're reporting Acorn, so maybe there are more interested people than you care to realize.

[boosterp]

Hurricane Elena in 1985 was projected towards New Orleans. (http://books.google.com/books?id=Ef_mQf6Z1mAC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=%22hurricane+elena%22+%22new+orleans%22&source=bl&ots=e1HtMEPFVl&sig=fphIGtLwK1cFxh_iAuFcvoi7T2E&hl=en&ei=5KSxSvWBBMaj8AaI8rCbBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=%22hurricane%20elena%22%20%22new%20orleans%22&f=false) I lived in Biloxi, MS for this storm. This is what was said at the time about New Orleans, the levees, and hurricanes. Everybody on the Gulf Coast knows this. They talk about it EVERY time a tropical storm enters the Gulf of Mexico, whether it turns into a hurricane or not. Kanye, Spike, and some of you are clueless on the subject and it shows.

Hence why I speak of the reports in the early 90s when funding was granted to the Army Corps to contract repairs if needed to strengthen and improve the levees. This work was contracted out and the Corps failed in oversight.

On topic of ACORN, this is just the peak of the mountain as mentioned before. Voter fraud allegations/investigations, and now the possibility of prosecution moving through to the Census pulling support for the 2010 count, and now this. Fox sucks ass but this did come to light.

I think more groups (especially partisan) need to be investigated in similar manners to esure our money is going to the right places. Were the Swift Boat vets not discredited during the Kerry/Bush run byan investigation by CNN?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

On the topic of New Orleans what was done with all that money that came in through many years of Mardi Gras, a few Superbowls and countless conventions held there? When it comes down to this, all politics is local and the city has been corrupt for decades

[Syd]

Hence why I speak of the reports in the early 90s when funding was granted to the Army Corps to contract repairs if needed to strengthen and improve the levees. This work was contracted out and the Corps failed in oversight.

On topic of ACORN, this is just the peak of the mountain as mentioned before. Voter fraud allegations/investigations, and now the possibility of prosecution moving through to the Census pulling support for the 2010 count, and now this. Fox sucks ass but this did come to light.

I think more groups (especially partisan) need to be investigated in similar manners to esure our money is going to the right places. Were the Swift Boat vets not discredited during the Kerry/Bush run byan investigation by CNN?

I definitely agree there -- I don't believe ACORN was necessarily partisan, but what they were doing should have been conducted by the government. Trying to help those in need is the work of society, not a non-profit group. Especially one with limited accountability as it wasn't an arm of the government.

[Ritalin]

Glenn Greenwald at salon hits the nail on the head:

ACORN has received a grand total of $53 million in federal funds over the last 15 years -- an average of $3.1 million per year. Meanwhile, not millions, not billions, but trillions of dollars of public funds have been, in the last year alone, transferred to or otherwise used for the benefit of Wall Street.

If one were to watch Fox News or listen to Rush Limbaugh -- as millions do -- one would believe that the burden of the ordinary American taxpayer, and the unfair plight of America's rich, is that their money is being stolen by the poorest and most powerless sectors of the society. An organization whose constituencies are often-unregistered inner-city minorities, the homeless and the dispossesed is depicted as though it's Goldman Sachs, Blackwater, Haillburton and combined, as though Washington officials are in thrall to those living in poverty rather than those who fund their campaigns. It's not the nice men in the suits doing the stealing but the very people, often minorities or illegal immigrants, with no political or financial power who nonetheless somehow dominate the government and get everything for themselves. The poorer and weaker one is, the more one is demonized in right-wing mythology as all-powerful receipients of ill-gotten gains; conversely, the stronger and more powerful one is, the more one is depicted as an oppressed and put-upon victim (that same dynamic applies to foreign affairs as well).

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Glenn Greenwald at salon hits the nail on the head:

ACORN has received a grand total of $53 million in federal funds over the last 15 years -- an average of $3.1 million per year. Meanwhile, not millions, not billions, but trillions of dollars of public funds have been, in the last year alone, transferred to or otherwise used for the benefit of Wall Street.

If one were to watch Fox News or listen to Rush Limbaugh -- as millions do -- one would believe that the burden of the ordinary American taxpayer, and the unfair plight of America's rich, is that their money is being stolen by the poorest and most powerless sectors of the society. An organization whose constituencies are often-unregistered inner-city minorities, the homeless and the dispossesed is depicted as though it's Goldman Sachs, Blackwater, Haillburton and combined, as though Washington officials are in thrall to those living in poverty rather than those who fund their campaigns. It's not the nice men in the suits doing the stealing but the very people, often minorities or illegal immigrants, with no political or financial power who nonetheless somehow dominate the government and get everything for themselves. The poorer and weaker one is, the more one is demonized in right-wing mythology as all-powerful receipients of ill-gotten gains; conversely, the stronger and more powerful one is, the more one is depicted as an oppressed and put-upon victim (that same dynamic applies to foreign affairs as well).

Bailouts should have never happened!!!!
Does Greenwald ever mention that 81 billion dollars has been given to GM and Chrysler to bail out the UAW in which taxpayers will most likely never see a penny of that cash returned? But wahts 81 billion? Its only chump change these days.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aUSIL6EM5ons


Illegal aliens send billions of dollars every year in remittances to their home countries. Most of that is tax free. Mexicos 2nd source of income behind oil is the form of money transfers.On average more than 25 billion goes to Mexico alone I am sick of hearing about the so called poor illegal aliens, there are millions of Americans out of work and now have to compete with these people for jobs, but the sleazy business owners will hire the illegal for 1/3 of the fair wage

[boosterp]

On the topic of New Orleans what was done with all that money that came in through many years of Mardi Gras, a few Superbowls and countless conventions held there? When it comes down to this, all politics is local and the city has been corrupt for decades

I had read an article claiming that Louisiana was one of the most corrupt states and New Orleans was near the top in corrupt cities (pre-Katrina). Just look at their public education system which is at the bottom of the list as far as national standards goes. All the tour dollars, the largest port in the US, and federal support revenue yet nothing is achieved. Talk about accountability.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I had read an article claiming that Louisiana was one of the most corrupt states and New Orleans was near the top in corrupt cities (pre-Katrina). Just look at their public education system which is at the bottom of the list as far as national standards goes. All the tour dollars, the largest port in the US, and federal support revenue yet nothing is achieved. Talk about accountability.

Basically Louisiana is The deep south version of New Jersey

[Ritalin]

Bailouts should have never happened!!!!
Does Greenwald ever mention that 81 billion dollars has been given to GM and Chrysler to bail out the UAW in which taxpayers will most likely never see a penny of that cash returned? But wahts 81 billion? Its only chump change these days.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aUSIL6EM5ons


Illegal aliens send billions of dollars every year in remittances to their home countries. Most of that is tax free. Mexicos 2nd source of income behind oil is the form of money transfers.On average more than 25 billion goes to Mexico alone I am sick of hearing about the so called poor illegal aliens, there are millions of Americans out of work and now have to compete with these people for jobs, but the sleazy business owners will hire the illegal for 1/3 of the fair wage

I know there's no winning or convincing happening here, but you're watching the strike cross the plate and swinging wildly at balls in the dirt.

Drive down to Greenwich. Park the car, stretch your legs. Stand over there in front of the Post Office and turn around 360 degrees.

More money went out right there, handed out for free by the Federal Government than all the illegals and ACORNS and whatever else you don't like put together. While you're grousing about illegal aliens and remittances the real money parks his car in his 6 car garage and laughs at the absurdity of it all.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know there's no winning or convincing happening here, but you're watching the strike cross the plate and swinging wildly at balls in the dirt.

Drive down to Greenwich. Park the car, stretch your legs. Stand over there in front of the Post Office and turn around 360 degrees.

More money went out right there, handed out for free by the Federal Government than all the illegals and ACORNS and whatever else you don't like put together. While you're grousing about illegal aliens and remittances the real money parks his car in his 6 car garage and laughs at the absurdity of it all.

Oh and the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted on illegal aliens every year is ok with you? Read what I posted, I was against all the bailouts. Lets see how long BofA or Citgroup takes to repay about 90 billion dollars

[vjr97]

cut the funds asap! acorn is a corrupt and bias organization.

[TheMojoPin]

Oh and the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted on illegal aliens every year is ok with you? Read what I posted, I was against all the bailouts. Lets see how long BofA or Citgroup takes to repay about 90 billion dollars

Hundreds of billions?

[disneyspy]

those ACORN people shoulda told the "prostitute" that under occupation she should say "leasing agent for public vagina"

[underdog]

Basically Louisiana is The deep south version of New Jersey

No way. People actually like and travel to Louisiana.

[The Jays]

Just because they had an agenda doesn't make what they discovered any better or worse.

Watch that Daily Show video and stop trying to justify anything.

I'm not trying to justify anything. I've already said, these people were morons for what they did, we've all agreed on that point. I'm not trying to give ACORN any excuse for their retarded actions. I raise a point that these people tried to come off like independent investigative journalists, and they don't even bother to look into what they've uncovered, and it's like no one gives a shit about that part of the story, that both sides of this story are fucking retards, and that we are all dumber for even thinking about this shit.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No way. People actually like and travel to Louisiana.

James Carville. Bruce Springsteen of Louisiana?

[The Jays]

Seriously Jays, step away from the 100% partisan view for a minute.

Hey, don't peg me as being 100% partisan. Just because I'm a Republican, don't lump me in with the rest of the retards who run the GOP.

[foodcourtdruide]

Scrutiny of government agencies is a very good thing, I think it's a bonus for government industry that they have to answer immediately to the people. A private organization could rebrand itself and continue their unethical operations. I always feel this way when corruption in government is uncovered, it makes me happy no matter which political party is at fault. I felt the same way about Blagojevich and Spitzer.

[TooLowBrow]

Hey, don't peg me as being 100% partisan. Just because I'm a Republican, don't lump me in with the rest of the retards who run the GOP.

can we lump you in with the retards who voted those retards in?

[Syd]

Scrutiny of government agencies is a very good thing, I think it's a bonus for government industry that they have to answer immediately to the people. A private organization could rebrand itself and continue their unethical operations. I always feel this way when corruption in government is uncovered, it makes me happy no matter which political party is at fault. I felt the same way about Blagojevich and Spitzer.

http://j.photos.cx/Altria_RGB-5BConverted5D-3de.gif

[foodcourtdruide]

Seriously Jays, step away from the 100% partisan view for a minute. You have to recognize that there is influence on "the left" from other sources, i.e., DailyKos, Huffington Post, Chris Matthews, Keith Olberman, NYT, Newsweek, MoveOne.org, Rachel Madow, MSNBC, CNN (most of the time), Daily Show . . . . Also, Air America did have a full time lineup attacking Bush during much of his 4 years. That fact that it was ultimately a failure doesn't negate the fact that its hosts were right there leading the anti-Bush charge. If anything, I give "the left" credit for having a much larger, multi-faceted influence program.





Why are you lumping all of the above news outlets in like they have the same level of journalistic integrity? Also, what makes you say NYT and CNN have a liberal bias? CNN has Lou Dobbs on it for crying out loud.

I've always believed that news outlets simply report for "the story". Sometimes CNN will favor the left to create a conflict, sometimes they will favor the right. In the end they are in the business of selling news. What makes foxnews so interesting is they have a clear agenda (seriously, if you don't see this I don't know what to say to you). MSNBC recently has a clear agenda (though not all of its programming as foxnews does), but it has no where near the influence that foxnews does.

[foodcourtdruide]

http://j.photos.cx/Altria_RGB-5BConverted5D-3de.gif

Right. Though I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility that ACORN just changes its name and attempts a rebranding. Still though, they ultimately look towards the public for funding.

[The Jays]

can we lump you in with the retards who voted those retards in?

No, you can't, because I voted Libertarian, because unlike the rest of both of your uptight parties, I want to smoke weed.

[foodcourtdruide]

No, you can't, because I voted Libertarian, because unlike the rest of both of your uptight parties, I want to smoke weed.

Yeah, and let potholes fix themselves!

[boosterp]

No way. People actually like and travel to Louisiana.

:lol::lol:

Now the House just voted to cut all federal funding to ACORN, link to come soon.

[The Jays]

Yeah, and let potholes fix themselves!

FILL THE POTHOLES WITH THE BLOOD OF THE NON-BELIEVERS!

[TooLowBrow]

Also, Air America did have a full time lineup attacking Bush during much of his 4 years. That fact that it was ultimately a failure doesn't negate the fact that its hosts were right there leading the anti-Bush charge. If anything, I give "the left" credit for having a much larger, multi-faceted influence program.




uh, bush was president for 8 years.

[TooLowBrow]

No, you can't, because I voted Libertarian, because unlike the rest of both of your uptight parties, I want to smoke weed.

Then why do you call yourself a Republican and not a Libertarian?

[The Jays]

Then why do you call yourself a Republican and not a Libertarian?

Because I'm a registered Republican. I have been my whole life. I didn't change because I wanted to vote for Ron Paul in the primary, and instead, the rest of the retards voted for McCain.

[TooLowBrow]

Because I'm a registered Republican. I have been my whole life. I didn't change because I wanted to vote for Ron Paul in the primary, and instead, the rest of the retards voted for McCain.

You should change.

The best way to send a message to the 2 big parties is if a ton of people would register with smaller parties who actually care about these voters interests.

This is good advice for unhappy Democrats too.

Otherwise they use that fact that they have huge numbers, although disenchanted numbers, to create a sheep-like mentality among undecided voters.

[The Jays]

Yeah, but there's no big Libertarian primary to really go to. I want to have a say in a primary that I care about.

[SouthSideJohnny]

uh, bush was president for 8 years.

Sadly, I remember he was president for 8 long years. 4 was a typo - good eye catching it though.

[SouthSideJohnny]

Because I'm a registered Republican. I have been my whole life. I didn't change because I wanted to vote for Ron Paul in the primary, and instead, the rest of the retards voted for McCain.

I understand this, but I agree with TooLowBrow that leaving registration with one of the two big parties only helps them. I was a registered Democrat until about 10 years ago. I thought about changing from Libertarian to Republican in order to vote in the primary last year, but I could not stomach adding to the Republican numbers after the crap our country went through under Bush. If the Republicans ever truly stand for small government and fiscal conservatism, and they stop pandering to the religious folks on social issues, I'll change my registration. Otherwise, I will keep "throwing my vote away" on third party candidates.

[tanless1]

Because I'm a registered Republican. I have been my whole life. I didn't change because I wanted to vote for Ron Paul in the primary, and instead, the rest of the retards voted for McCain.

never thought id be w/ ya on any point.
i also am a regiisterd republican; and i dont care if obama is the devil himself... i would not and did not vote for mcain. doesnt belong anywhere near the office.

[boosterp]

I thank that I could check independent. I don't even get junk mail from either party.

[TooLowBrow]

I cant stand these people who dont agree with politicians in their own party

If you dont like them, give up the party!

You see politicians trading party alliances (Giuliani, Lieberman, etc) more that average citizens switching parties.

[hanso]

81 billion dollars has been given to GM and Chrysler
Loaned..fixed.
Some banks have repaid these loans with interest.
Not all will come out roses. But please call it for what it is.

[hanso]

No, you can't, because I voted Libertarian, because unlike the rest of both of your uptight parties, I want to smoke weed.

Carter had free the weed for his second term platform.

[The Jays]

Carter had free the weed for his second term platform.

Yeah, I didn't exist yet when it was time to vote for him.

[epo]

You should change.

The best way to send a message to the 2 big parties is if a ton of people would register with smaller parties who actually care about these voters interests.

This is good advice for unhappy Democrats too.

Otherwise they use that fact that they have huge numbers, although disenchanted numbers, to create a sheep-like mentality among undecided voters.

Or you could live in a state with an open primary.

[hanso]

Yeah, I didn't exist yet when it was time to vote for him.

Just saying it was/is out there.
The party did/does want to party. (so to say).

[hanso]

Or you could live in a state with an open primary.

I'd like to see this nation wide.
It seems like a pigeon hole kind of deal to me.

[Ogre]

The worker who believed that chick was really a prostitute is an idiot. Worst fake prostitute outfit ever.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/3071949982_366e141841.jpg

[sailor]

Or you could live in a state with an open primary.

i kinda hate those. you get the smaller party in those states accusing the larger group (probably rightfully so) of trying to sabotage their choice.

[hanso]

And they can't join the debate as well.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Obama favors investigation into ACORN's activities (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090920/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_acorn)

As well he should. I wonder if they were such big fuckups back when bho was working for them? Probably. So the CEO cried racism! Cried foul on the investigators, cried foul on FoxNews! How desperate. Meanwhile, all along, she should’ve been looking inwards for the problems. Acorn has now been bounced out of the census, House funding, probably Senate funding, states dropping them left and right, lotsa other big problems. What a shame for acorn. What a bunch of fuckups.

For ACORN, Video Is Only Latest Crisis (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/19/AR2009091902550.html?wprss=rss_politics)

[epo]

i kinda hate those. you get the smaller party in those states accusing the larger group (probably rightfully so) of trying to sabotage their choice.

I agree that if you are a partisan, you shouldn't vote in the other primary. Its a douche move to me.

However the advantage is for the independents and the leaners. They really get to flex their muscle.

[Arkbugark]

The group never should have got tax money in the first place. No wonder our taxes are so high. WTF

[SatCam]

The group never should have got tax money in the first place. No wonder our taxes are so high. WTF

Now if we could just get our tax dollars out of Isreal, Egypt, Pakistan...................

[TheMojoPin]

The group never should have got tax money in the first place. No wonder our taxes are so high. WTF

This has nothing to do with why our taxes are what they are.

[sailor]

I agree that if you are a partisan, you shouldn't vote in the other primary. Its a douche move to me.

However the advantage is for the independents and the leaners. They really get to flex their muscle.

i have no problems with inds voting in any primary.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Since acorn has received $53,000,000 in federal funds (i.e., taxpayer money) since 2004, and IF the allegations of them so being fucked up from top to bottom are true I’d say it’s an excellent example of pissing away taxpayer money and contributing to higher taxes.

[TheMojoPin]

What allegations of being "fucked up from top to bottom?" What's out there right now is mostly about as "bottom" as you can get.

Shit, even if they were at this point they've more than "earned" their money over the last 40 years.

[SonOfSmeagol]

It appears the chief financial officer (CFO) (top finance/accounting person) of acorn may well have embezzled close to $1,000,000, from acorn, in 1999 and 2000. And, it appears he also stayed in the post until 2008 after the embezzlement was discovered, and cut a deal to repay at 30K/yr and avoid the fuzz. About $53,000,000 in taxpayer money went to this org during that time while this guy was in office…It does not look good. Who's to say or measure what they may or may not have “earned” – and as if it that could make up for say, embezzlement, in the first place.

[TheMojoPin]

It appears the chief financial officer (CFO) (top finance/accounting person) of acorn may well have embezzled close to $1,000,000, from acorn, in 1999 and 2000. And, it appears he also stayed in the post until 2008 after the embezzlement was discovered, and cut a deal to repay at 30K/yr and avoid the fuzz. About $53,000,000 in taxpayer money went to this org during that time while this guy was in office…It does not look good. Who's to say or measure what they may or may not have “earned” – and as if it that could make up for say, embezzlement, in the first place.

There's a long way to go to show that embezzlement case went beyond Dale Rathke or that it had anything to do with the federal money. I've been saying all along that I support a full investigation into ACORN by the Justice Department, largely due to the embezzlement case as opposed the "brothel" videos since I definitely belive that the country is much worse off without ACORN. And yes, I think it's safe to say that they've earned their federal funding with all they've accomplished across the country over the years. Which areas do you disagree with more, their efforts in education reform, wage reform or housing reform?

[underdog]

Since acorn has received $53,000,000 in federal funds (i.e., taxpayer money) since 2004, and IF the allegations of them so being fucked up from top to bottom are true I’d say it’s an excellent example of pissing away taxpayer money and contributing to higher taxes.

$53 million over 5 years really doesn't sound like that much taxpayer money.

[SonOfSmeagol]

There's a long way to go to show that embezzlement case went beyond Dale Rathke or that it had anything to do with the federal money. I've been saying all along that I support a full investigation into ACORN by the Justice Department, largely due to the embezzlement case as opposed the "brothel" videos since I definitely belive that the country is much worse off without ACORN. And yes, I think it's safe to say that they've earned their federal funding with all they've accomplished across the country over the years. Which areas do you disagree with more, their efforts in education reform, wage reform or housing reform?

Ah, but your claim that it was all bottom and no top (whoa) was wholly disproved. And if you knew about Rathke (a top - whoa again) why would you even make such a false assertion in the first place. Weird. And well you should call them out for a criminal investigation – not only embezzlement but misusing federal funds for political purposes, voter fraud. The videos were nothing. They were actually going to be big players on the census – whew!. And as it’s been noted they’re being shunned and investigated left and right by the House, Senate, and States, etc. etc. Something really stinks. Not to mention that bho was affiliated with this org – that makes it even more visible and interesting. Some people might question his judgment to be associated with such an org – whether or not he is clean.

You should call them out, but your leanings just won’t allow that. You can try to defend them on the basis of some sort of “social value”, and contend that they’re “worth it” over “40 years” – but who cares - that’s not provable, totally subjective, and not relevant to criminal questions. Know what? Keep doing that – that’s cool. And who disagreed, or agreed, or even mentioned those so called ”reforms”? naked strawman. And still, who cares. However, all that said, orgs like them can do whatever the hell they want – they just must keep federal funds clean and out of politics per the laws that they are supposed to operate under, and not condone or allow criminal behavior by anyone in the org - especially the top execs. Big big questions as to whether they have done that or are even capable of that.

[badmonkey]

$53 million over 5 years really doesn't sound like that much taxpayer money.

Sweet. Sign me up for 10 mil of taxpayer money over the next 5 years then. That's even less taxpayer money so nobody should be too upset about it. I promise I'll spend it improving my community.

[TheMojoPin]

Ah, but your claim that it was all bottom and no top (whoa) was wholly disproved. And if you knew about Rathke (a top - whoa again) why would you even make such a false assertion in the first place. Weird.

Something that occured and was caught and supposedly resolved a decade ago does not translate to "fucked up from top to bottom" today. Again, Like I've said numerous times in this thread before you showed up I have zero issue with ACORN being investigated. I want them investigated and cleaned up so the organization can just continue to exist. It has done and still does too much good to be effectively killed like this.

And well you should call them out for a criminal investigation – not only embezzlement but misusing federal funds for political purposes, voter fraud.

You do realize the huge difference between voter fraud and some low-level employees fuding their registration lists to make some extra cash, right? I highly doubt you're legitimately worried about the likes of Mickey Mouse and Troy Aikmen somehow showing up to cast a vote. I am in no way justifying this behavior, but I am asking you to look at it and consider it realistically.

The videos were nothing. They were actually going to be big players on the census – whew!. And as it’s been noted they’re being shunned and investigated left and right by the House, Senate, and States, etc. etc. Something really stinks. Not to mention that bho was affiliated with this org – that makes it even more visible and interesting. Some people might question his judgment to be associated with such an org – whether or not he is clean.

It's being "shunned" because of the sensational news stories painting it as an organization that destroyed New Orleans and runs child sex rings. Congress is leaping to eliminating ACORN's funding altogether to curry favor with the public before it's spun that they're supporting what's being spun as a rampantly corrupt and criminal organization. In short, it's people covering their own asses.

In reality, politicians, Obama included, should not be ashamed of any kind of connection or support they've had of ACORN over the years. Are you really willfully ignoring the scope of ACORN's history what it's accomplished and the good its done over the decades? To talk like anyone associated with them is automatically up to some kind of nefarious activity and needs to have their "judgement questioned" simply isn't realistic. As I stated before, ACORN has been a ciritcal force for wage. housing and education reform across the country. Anyone working with those issues has a good chance of encountering or working with ACORN over the years.

You should call them out, but your leanings just won’t allow that.

I have stated clearly numerous times in this thread that ACORN should have their federal funding temporarily suspended while being investigated by the Justice Department to clean house if necessary.

You can try to defend them on the basis of some sort of “social value”, and contend that they’re “worth it” over “40 years” – but who cares - that’s not provable, totally subjective, and not relevant to criminal questions.

Actually it's very relevant because it argues that the organization and its infrastructre and capabilities in regard to reform and assistance for the poor and disenfranchised are extremely valuable and should be preserved. The organization can be investigated and anyone guilty of wrongdoing can be removed and prosecuted without destroying the organization.

Know what? Keep doing that – that’s cool. And who disagreed, or agreed, or even mentioned those so called ”reforms”? naked strawman. And still, who cares. However, all that said, orgs like them can do whatever the hell they want – they just must keep federal funds clean and out of politics per the laws that they are supposed to operate under, and not condone or allow criminal behavior by anyone in the org - especially the top execs. Big big questions as to whether they have done that or are even capable of that.

And those questions should be answered, but a witchhunt with the express purpose of destroying the organization as a whole is not a productive way to accomplish that. What this boils down to is that ACORN in terms of corruption and waste is not very significant at all and the majority of this vitriol is based out of the desire to eliminate them as a source of Democratic mobilization. Ironically, I really don't care if ACORN is unable to never register anyone again. I'm not defending them because I want them to keep registering Democratic voters.

I think utimately we agree more over this than we disagree. Tell me if you differ on these main ideas:

-Federal funding to ACORN should be suspended.

-ACORN should be investigated by the Justice Department.

-It's not a necessary task of ACORN to register voters or to be involved in partisan politics.

[TheMojoPin]

Sweet. Sign me up for 10 mil of taxpayer money over the next 5 years then. That's even less taxpayer money so nobody should be too upset about it. I promise I'll spend it improving my community.

Relatively speaking it's a drop in the bucket, and thus far it appears that ACORN used the majority of their funds to improves numerous communities across the country. That doesn't mean that this shouldn't be verified, but to leap to the conclusion like they're a significant source of taxpayer waste or that they've misused a significant amount of their federal funding isn't very sound at this moment.

[The Jays]

I know of a significant source of taxpayer waste! It starts with an I...

[SonOfSmeagol]

Something that occured and was caught and supposedly resolved a decade ago does not translate to "fucked up from top to bottom" today. Again, Like I've said numerous times in this thread before you showed up I have zero issue with ACORN being investigated. I want them investigated and cleaned up so the organization can just continue to exist. It has done and still does too much good to be effectively killed like this.

You do realize the huge difference between voter fraud and some low-level employees fuding their registration lists to make some extra cash, right? I highly doubt you're legitimately worried about the likes of Mickey Mouse and Troy Aikmen somehow showing up to cast a vote. I am in no way justifying this behavior, but I am asking you to look at it and consider it realistically.

“It's being "shunned" because of the sensational news stories painting it as an organization that destroyed New Orleans and runs child sex rings” is really a ridiculous statement.

On the “value judgment” thing, you’re arguing with yourself. As I said – have at it – that’s personal assessment. When widespread scandal hits an org, though, all activities come under question. And bho has kept real cool distance from this org from even before the election. Where’s his support.

“witchhunt with the express purpose of destroying the organization” - whoever said that? “witchhunt” implies some sort of mass hysteria injustice and outrage upon the wrongly accused. Honestly that’s an inflammation – no one said that and it’s just not so. No one ever said “eliminate them as a source of Democratic mobilization” either. Again, I think you're arguing with yourself.

I think people just want them to stand up, take responsibility for their own actions, take the consequences, and play by the rules. We probably do agree on more than we disagree.

[TheMojoPin]

"witchhunt with the express purpose of destroying the organization” - whoever said that? “witchhunt” implies some sort of mass hysteria injustice and outrage upon the wrongly accused. Honestly that’s an inflammation – no one said that and it’s just not so. No one ever said “eliminate them as a source of Democratic mobilization” either. Again, I think you're arguing with yourself.

The guy behind the videos has explicitly stated that he did what he did because ACORN wasn't being held accountable for getting people elected. (He was quoted as saying so in the NYT: I don't have the link in front of me but this was his quote -)

"Politicians are getting elected single-handedly due to this organization," he said. "No one was holding this organization accountable."

(Let me know if you want the article link and I'll track it down again)

That's ultimately really the only reason to explain all the attention paid towards ACORN by conservatives. Again, ACORN clearly isn't run or staffed by saints, but in the national scope of things it's really an insignificant organization in terms of partisan politics....except how successful they have been in registering people to vote and how most of those people end up voting Democratic.

And I'm not slamming this guy or the Republicans for wanting this shut down. Like I said, I'd have zero issues with some kind of stipulation saying that ACORN could get federal funding only if they ceased their voter registrating and canvasing programs.

And I'm the one that said "witch hunt." I don't know why you're asking who said that since I didn't quote anyone. I think "witch hunt" is a very apt term to describe the effort to get ACORN shut down, particuarly when it comes to how Fox News and especially Glenn Beck have approached ACORN. There has been a very clear effort to demonize and villainize ACORN far beyond just the already accused wrongdoings. Again, I have no problem with ACORN being investigated or being called out, but things like basically blaming them for Katrina's destruction are absurd.

[hanso]

<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/XPXIwmu8l0U&hl=en&fs=1&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/XPXIwmu8l0U&hl=en&fs=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>


I may be slow on these matters.
As I never equated Government contracts to be tax payers money.
I guess any funding by the government can be of this ilk.
In a core matter you could say that this whole system is socialism.