Obama Vs Bush: Who was/is a better President?

[lleeder]

Sure George W Bush had a few missteps but was he all that bad? Really?
Look what Obama's been up too. Overall Who was/is a better President?

[Syd]

pee in my butt

[Furtherman]

You keep fucking that chicken.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama is succeeding very quickly to being as bad as Bush

[TheMojoPin]

This is adorable.

[DarkHippie]

really?

[epo]

Is this the "Day of Stupid Polls"?

[EliSnow]

lleeder, I hope you're not this premature in all of your endeavors.

[boosterp]

Not even a year in and this is a poll? Jeez.

At this time in his first term GWB was dealing with 9/11.

Although I do not think in my lifetime there has been or will be a worse president. Bush knocked Carter out of the running.

[foodcourtdruide]

What exactly has Obama done so wrong? Is Obama a bad president because he called the cop in the Gates thing stupid and he had an affiliation with ACORN?

I like that Obama is trying to get things done. Though you may disagree with him on the solution, don't you think the health care dialogue NEEDED to happen in this country?

[earthbrown]

I dont like the socialist agenda of the obama administration. I dont want "public option" healthcare, i dont want more of my money to be taken up with taxes.

I also understand that Bush raped us and will cause more taxes by the astronomical debt that his wars put us in.


K

[The Jays]

I think Obama is a bad president because he is a Marxist, he is a Communist, he makes us less safe against terrorists, he's not a citizen of this country, and he is a Muslim.

As bad as Bush was, at least he was a Christian.

[spoon]

Has Obama done as much as I had hoped for at this point? Not really, but I blame the pussies in congress and the senate more for that. Oh and the tea parties are quite cute. Where the fuck were these asshole when our ACTUAL rights were being flushed under DICK AND BUSH with the likes of the patriot act and soooo much more. Fuck your tea parties and urselves. Most of the people at those rallies sound as bad as those protesting David Letterman.

[earthbrown]

What exactly has Obama done so wrong? Is Obama a bad president because he called the cop in the Gates thing stupid and he had an affiliation with ACORN?

I like that Obama is trying to get things done. Though you may disagree with him on the solution, don't you think the health care dialogue NEEDED to happen in this country?

how about all the radicals he has appointed as "Czars", and all the radicals he was affiliated with before his presidency that he denied knowing about.


K

[boosterp]

I think Obama is a bad president because he is a Marxist, he is a Communist, he makes us less safe against terrorists, he's not a citizen of this country, and he is a Muslim.

As bad as Bush was, at least he was a Christian.

Are you a moron? What the fuck does religion have to do in the ability to preside over this country? And is Obama really a Muslim?

[underdog]

how about all the radicals he has appointed as "Czars", and all the radicals he was affiliated with before his presidency that he denied knowing about.

I love the czar talk.

Didn't Bush just appoint someone to a position he made up that had control over immigration, the CIA and the FBI?

And Bush's attorney general DIDN'T FUCKING DANCE because it was against his religion.

People are worried about Obama's choices?

[The Jays]

Are you a moron? What the fuck does religion have to do in the ability to preside over this country? And is Obama really a Muslim?

Only a good Christian knows the ways of the world and can guide us against our enemies, those enemies being all those who hate freedom and liberty.

He is Muslim, and in the Koran, it is written, "All Muslims Must Kill Americans in Order to Get Into Heaven, All Praise Be To Allah, kthxbye."

[The Jays]

how about all the radicals he has appointed as "Czars", and all the radicals he was affiliated with before his presidency that he denied knowing about.


K

and how about that uppity wife of his? Taking over control of the US Olympic bid in 2016 for Chicago who does she think she is? Sounds a little commie to me.

[Dude!]

Are you a moron? What the fuck does religion have to do in the ability to preside over this country? And is Obama really a Muslim?

dude, you need to recognize
when thejays is being sarcastic

[TooLowBrow]

and how about that uppity wife of his? Taking over control of the US Olympic bid in 2016 for Chicago who does she think she is? Sounds a little commie to me.

I thought she was out of line threatening that line judge.

[spoon]

Only a good Christian knows the ways of the world and can guide us against our enemies, those enemies being all those who hate freedom and liberty.

He is Muslim, and in the Koran, it is written, "All Muslims Must Kill Americans in Order to Get Into Heaven, All Praise Be To Allah, kthxbye."

so wait, america is older than I thought huh?

[earthbrown]

I love the czar talk.

Didn't Bush just appoint someone to a position he made up that had control over immigration, the CIA and the FBI?

And Bush's attorney general DIDN'T FUCKING DANCE because it was against his religion.

People are worried about Obama's choices?

if you are talking about the "Director of Homeland Security", I could be wrong, but I believe he had to be confirmed by congress.

Obama has 44 Czars, more Czars than in the previous 5 administrations combined, they are not held to a confirmation standard, and as we have seen, there is little due diligence in regards to their past and qualifications.

K

[The Jays]

so wait, america is older than I thought huh?

Oh yeah, America is at least, what, 10, 20 years old.

[spoon]

dude, you need to recognize
when thejays is being sarcastic

I fucking hope so. Sadly, there are PLENTY of people out there saying the same thing that are 100% serious.

[earthbrown]

I thought she was out of line threatening that line judge.


:lol:

[TooLowBrow]

so wait, america is older than I thought huh?

not america, the country, stupid.

the writing was more about the idea of america.

the chapter after that one is titled, 'obama shall fool the americans unmercifully'

[spoon]

not america, the country, stupid.

the writing was more about the idea of america.

the chapter after that one is titled, 'obama shall fool the americans unmercifully'

Just directly quoting his direct quote...and that chapter rules. I can't WAIT for the next book to come out. I hear they're going in a whole new direction with tons of twists.

[The Jays]

if you are talking about the "Director of Homeland Security", I could be wrong, but I believe he had to be confirmed by congress.

Obama has 44 Czars, more Czars than in the previous 5 administrations combined, they are not held to a confirmation standard, and as we have seen, there is little due diligence in regards to their past and qualifications.

K

He has so many Czars, for one thing, because there was massive government intervention to help the banks and to save the auto industry. There's a shitload of "czars" that had to be created because of TARP, stimulus, etc. Because, you know, the administration thought it'd be a good idea to have people whose job was to oversee those executive actions, since the President has only one set of eyes, and has schools to speak to and beers to drink with police officers.

[boosterp]

Only a good Christian knows the ways of the world and can guide us against our enemies, those enemies being all those who hate freedom and liberty.

He is Muslim, and in the Koran, it is written, "All Muslims Must Kill Americans in Order to Get Into Heaven, All Praise Be To Allah, kthxbye."

If it was sarcasm I apologize for the moron remark.

Oh, that is also not written in the Koran, Islam is a peaceful religion minus the extremist which is some what reminiscent of the early Spanish monks and native Americans.

[The Jays]

Just directly quoting his direct quote...and that chapter rules. I can't WAIT for the next book to come out. I hear they're going in a whole new direction with tons of twists.

In the next book God is Mohammed's father.:ohmy:

[spoon]

He has so many Czars, for one thing, because there was massive government intervention to help the banks and to save the auto industry. There's a shitload of "czars" that had to be created because of TARP, stimulus, etc. Because, you know, the administration thought it'd be a good idea to have people whose job was to oversee those executive actions, since the President has only one set of eyes, and has schools to speak to and beers to drink with police officers.

Who exactly started TARP? Why was it needed/implemented? And yes, how dare he not be on tv talking policy all day or whatever it is you think must be doing 24/7.

[The Jays]

If it was sarcasm I apologize for the moron remark.

Oh, that is also not written in the Koran, Islam is a peaceful religion minus the extremist which is some what reminiscent of the early Spanish monks and native Americans.

Islam is a peacful religion, and they will kill anyone who disturbs their peace.

[Dude!]

Islam is a peacful religion, and they will kill anyone who disturbs their peace.

you really need a spanking

[The Jays]

Who exactly started TARP? Why was it needed/implemented? And yes, how dare he not be on tv talking policy all day or whatever it is you think must be doing 24/7.

TARP went into effect after George W. Bush signed it into law, and they ended up not needing like 250 billion of that 700, and I think some banks have paid back their TARP plus billions in interest, so, like I hoped for when I heard about it, the USA made some money off of it.

[spoon]

In the next book God is Mohammed's father.:ohmy:

I heard God has an affair with Θεός , so is that considered masturbation?

[The Jays]

No, that's just Sunday, his day of rest.

[The Jays]

TARP went into effect after George W. Bush signed it into law, and they ended up not needing like 250 billion of that 700, and I think some banks have paid back their TARP plus billions in interest, so, like I hoped for when I heard about it, the USA made some money off of it.

Oh yeah, they needed it because, they were supposed to buy back mortgages with it, but it was determined to be better to infuse banks with the money to unfreeze the credit markets by providing them with some capital.

[foodcourtdruide]

He has so many Czars, for one thing, because there was massive government intervention to help the banks and to save the auto industry. There's a shitload of "czars" that had to be created because of TARP, stimulus, etc. Because, you know, the administration thought it'd be a good idea to have people whose job was to oversee those executive actions, since the President has only one set of eyes, and has schools to speak to and beers to drink with police officers.

I'm a little confused at how this is a bad thing too. I'd say Obama is definitely aggressive. We won't know if it's a good thing for years.

[spoon]

Oh yeah, they needed it because, they were supposed to buy back mortgages with it, but it was determined to be better to infuse banks with the money to unfreeze the credit markets by providing them with some capital.

Yes, and a decent move in the end compared to "letting the market correct itself" approach of the Hoover admin during the last era of this issue. Still, how ever did this happen? And DON'T pull that horseshit ACORN excuse.

[boosterp]

Islam is a peacful religion, and they will kill anyone who disturbs their peace.

Same can be said about Christians and Judaism. Nearly every was fought before 1700 was a religious based war.

[boosterp]

Yes, and a decent move in the end compared to "letting the market correct itself" approach of the Hoover admin during the last era of this issue. Still, how ever did this happen? And DON'T pull that horseshit ACORN excuse.

Housing? Thank Henry Cisneros.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yes, and a decent move in the end compared to "letting the market correct itself" approach of the Hoover admin during the last era of this issue. Still, how ever did this happen? And DON'T pull that horseshit ACORN excuse.

Please please please don't let ACORN bet he default answer to everything bad that's ever happened to this country. That will destroy progress.

[spoon]

Housing? Thank Henry Cisneros.

So it's the individuals or those that have the power to regulate?

[TooLowBrow]

Just directly quoting his direct quote...and that chapter rules. I can't WAIT for the next book to come out. I hear they're going in a whole new direction with tons of twists.

i hope the next book is 'choose your own adventure'

if you want to start a jihad, turn to page 63.

if you want to train more terrorists, turn to page 115.

[TooLowBrow]

He has so many Czars...
There once was Obama, he lived in a shoe
He has so many Czars..., he didn't know what to do;
He gave them some broth without any bread;
Then whipped them all soundly and put them to bed

http://www.carlscorner.us.com/Jpgs_/mother15.jpg

[boosterp]

So it's the individuals or those that have the power to regulate?

Are you asking a historical question? Henry Cisneros former HUD chief under the Clinton administration was responsible for making mortgages easier to acquire which was fought but Cisneros won based on his argument that this would allow more low income families to own a house. We won't go into why he had to resign as HUD cheif unless you really do not know your history.

These types of mortgages were the first thing blamed when the bubble popped and everything started going tits up.

[spoon]

i hope the next book is 'choose your own adventure'

First read a little into both and see which way works better. Act like it NEVER happened. Still, turn to 63. TURN TO 63! Can it be against a certain thread?

[epo]

There once was Obama, he lived in a shoe
He has so many Czars..., he didn't know what to do;
He gave them some broth without any bread;
Then whipped them all soundly and put them to bed



Who created the government issue/topic czar position to begin with?

[DarkHippie]

Islam is a peacful religion, and they will kill anyone who disturbs their peace.

Islam is a cranky old man who wants you off his lawn so he can watch Matlock

[spoon]

Are you asking a historical question? Henry Cisneros former HUD chief under the Clinton administration was responsible for making mortgages easier to acquire which was fought but Cisneros won based on his argument that this would allow more low income families to own a house. We won't go into why he had to resign as HUD cheif unless you really do not know your history.

These types of mortgages were the first thing blamed when the bubble popped and everything started going tits up.

I know who he is, and his false testimony/mistress issues. Yet nobody in their right mind would dimiss that the constant reselling of these loans over and over with no paper value wasn't at the true heart of this issue. Sure housing falsely inflated/grew under Bush, the only thing that did outside of military and overall spending, but the main issue overall wasn't who was getting the loans versus what occurred with them after. I'm not saying regulation on that end was where it should be either, but it's not the key issue here.

[earthbrown]

Same can be said about Christians and Judaism. Nearly every was fought before 1700 was a religious based war.

its 2009, islamists need to get out of the stone age.

They would have more creditably if members of their religion did not kill or threaten to kill people that criticized them.


K

[TooLowBrow]

Who created the government issue/topic czar position to begin with?

...jesus?

[epo]

...jesus?

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/04/0426_dow/image/4_richard-nixon.jpg

[The Jays]

So it's the individuals or those that have the power to regulate?

You can't blame one guy for the crisis. It's a series of steps, and people making retarded decisions along the way. The guy wanted to help minorities get homes, but they all had shit credit, and he thought it would be good to loosen some of the restrictions to get more minorities into homes. Bush further exacerbated this idea. Combined with Greenspan promoting ARMs as good ways to purchase homes, massive speculation nation wide, people refi'ing to pull the equity out to pay off credit card debt, and ultimately, banks approving stupid mortgages and stretching the truth for buyers so that they'd have more mortages to get packaged up and sold as AAA securities, turning shit into gold, making Wall St rich, and then when they saw it about to happen, they started selling, and the losers were the homeowners and all of us whose 401k's tanked and jobs got lost because business credit froze up.

To sum up, yeah, that was all Obama's fault.

[epo]

And the czar thing is a dogshit bitch anyways. Seriously, areas need "directors/heads of departments/czars". I don't give a shit what you call them, Washington needs fixing after the last 8 years.

[spoon]

You can't blame one guy for the crisis. It's a series of steps, and people making retarded decisions along the way. The guy wanted to help minorities get homes, but they all had shit credit, and he thought it would be good to loosen some of the restrictions to get more minorities into homes. Bush further exacerbated this idea. Combined with Greenspan promoting ARMs as good ways to purchase homes, massive speculation nation wide, people refi'ing to pull the equity out to pay off credit card debt, and ultimately, banks approving stupid mortgages and stretching the truth for buyers so that they'd have more mortages to get packaged up and sold as AAA securities, turning shit into gold, making Wall St rich, and then when they saw it about to happen, they started selling, and the losers were the homeowners and all of us whose 401k's tanked and jobs got lost because business credit froze up.

To sum up, yeah, that was all Obama's fault.

All right except the last sentence.

[The Jays]

Seriously, yes, there are "czars," it's because the President has other shit to do, and after the shitstorm of the past 8 years, he needed people to look around and see what's broken. Turns out, most everything was broken and covered in shit. Now, when Obama starts talking about how his administration is cleaning shit up, all the public sees is all the shit on his clothes and they scream "YOU COVERED EVERYTHING IN SHIT!"

[spoon]

In summary, some were actually trying to help out people in need of housing, while others found a way to capitalize on it. In the end it was greed as per the norm, and later those at fault found ways to blame those who actually had their heart in the right place. I'm not saying all of them, but more often than not.

[boosterp]

I know who he is, and his false testimony/mistress issues. Yet nobody in their right mind would dimiss that the constant reselling of these loans over and over with no paper value wasn't at the true heart of this issue. Sure housing falsely inflated/grew under Bush, the only thing that did outside of military and overall spending, but the main issue overall wasn't who was getting the loans versus what occurred with them after. I'm not saying regulation on that end was where it should be either, but it's not the key issue here.

You miss how this all begun though. If not for Cisneros making these mortgages available which led to an increase in number of mortgage companies, which then lead to swapping or selling loans off. His initiative also allowed for more risky lending which ultimately ballooned into the mess we just went through. It is about the beginning (Cisneros to answer your initial question), middle (Bush/Greenspan), and end which is people loosing their homes and need for near perfect credit to get a loan for anything in a decent neighborhood.

The guy wanted to help minorities get homes, but they all had shit credit, and he thought it would be good to loosen some of the restrictions to get more minorities into homes. Bush further exacerbated this idea. Combined with Greenspan promoting ARMs as good ways to purchase homes, massive speculation nation wide, people refi'ing to pull the equity out to pay off credit card debt, and ultimately, banks approving stupid mortgages and stretching the truth for buyers so that they'd have more mortages to get packaged up and sold as AAA securities, turning shit into gold, making Wall St rich, and then when they saw it about to happen, they started selling, and the losers were the homeowners and all of us whose 401k's tanked and jobs got lost because business credit froze up.



Bolded for truth minus the Obama part..

[boosterp]

In summary, some were actually trying to help out people in need of housing, while others found a way to capitalize on it. In the end it was greed as per the norm, and later those at fault found ways to blame those who actually had their heart in the right place. I'm not saying all of them, but more often than not.

Look at Cisneros' background and more recent history. He sits/sat on the board of Countrywide Financial and KB Homes (a large home builder). Benefits, he's very wealthy.

[The Jays]

Yeah, but Obama is a failure of a President. Just look at the Iraq War, the Afghan War, Katrina, the economic meltdown and subsequent massive federal intervention... all Obama.

[spoon]

Boo, I understand the chain of events that led to this, but giving people homes who maybe couldn't afford them is overall a minimal problem in the end. It was the deregulation in the packaging of these worthless securities, which they knew they were, over and over again that destroyed the banks and made a few creeps crazy rich. People saw a get rich quick scheme using some people's best intentions to do it.

[spoon]

Yeah, but Obama is a failure of a President. Just look at the Iraq War, the Afghan War, Katrina, the economic meltdown and subsequent massive federal intervention... all Obama.

If he had only thought to appoint his hack personal lawyer to the supreme court, all would be fine now.

[boosterp]

If he had only thought to appoint his hack personal lawyer to the supreme court, all would be fine now.

Don't forget the Roadmap to Peace.

[DarkHippie]

its 2009, islamists need to get out of the stone age.

They would have more creditably if members of their religion did not kill or threaten to kill people that criticized them.


K

yeah but Islam was founded in the 600s, so their are at the equivalent of the early reformation, which was pretty bloody. Give them 500 years and they'll be snazzy

[earthbrown]

yeah but Islam was founded in the 600s, so their are at the equivalent of the early reformation, which was pretty bloody. Give them 500 years and they'll be snazzy



with that logic, africa should be the pinnacle of civilization right now.

:wink:

[TooLowBrow]

with that logic, africa should be the pinnacle of civilization right now.

:wink:

Or, we should be looking at them as our future.

[foodcourtdruide]

This conversation is making me thirsty.

[earthbrown]

Or, we should be looking at them as our future.

touche'


K

[underdog]

with that logic, africa should be the pinnacle of civilization right now.

:wink:

That doesn't make any sense. Most of Africa has only been allowed to govern and rule itself over like the last 50 years.

[GregoryJoseph]

I suppose history will decide. When we look back in 30 years I'm pretty sure the right will say Bush was better and the left will say Obama was.

The more things change...

[DarkHippie]

with that logic, africa should be the pinnacle of civilization right now.

:wink:

Or it collapsed and has become reduced to local warlords fighting over meager resources . . .

I meant this as a joke, and now it is creeping me out :(

[earthbrown]

That doesn't make any sense. Most of Africa has only been allowed to govern and rule itself over like the last 50 years.

Huh? Africa is suppose to be the cradle of civilization, where the human originated 200,000 years ago.

It governed and ruled itself till about 1000-1500 years ago, then became part of larger empires.


K

[Dude!]

Huh? Africa is suppose to be the cradle of civilization, where the human originated 200,000 years ago.

It governed and ruled itself till about 1000-1500 years ago, then became part of larger empires.


K

being the place
where humans originated
is alot different from being the
"cradle of civilization"

[TooLowBrow]

being the place
where humans originated
is alot different from being the
"cradle of civilization"

sounds like the pot calling the kettle black

[earthbrown]

sounds like the pot calling the kettle black

you could not have used a different analogy when talking about africa?


K

[JohnGacysCrawlSpace]

If Strom Thurmon was president we wouldn't have these problems.

[earthbrown]

If Strom Thurmon was president we wouldn't have these problems.

I agree.


K

[KnoxHarrington]

The "czar" bullshit is the latest thing for dumb-as-dogshit fucktards who watch Glenn Beck for any other reason than to see if tonight is finally the night he just blows his brains out on camera to get all pissed off about.

Another thing to keep them stupid and fighting for policies and institutions that want them to be peasants.

[The Jays]

if you are talking about the "Director of Homeland Security", I could be wrong, but I believe he had to be confirmed by congress.

Obama has 44 Czars, more Czars than in the previous 5 administrations combined, they are not held to a confirmation standard, and as we have seen, there is little due diligence in regards to their past and qualifications.

K

Yeah, no.

He has 32, Bush had 35. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._executive_branch_czars

[A.J.]

So far, Bush is turning out to be a great former President. He keeps his mouth shut -- unlike our former Vice President.

[earthbrown]

So far, Bush is turning out to be a great former President. He keeps his mouth shut -- unlike our former Vice President.

I actually like Cheney now, it seems that right or wrong, he believes his viewpoint and is willing to defend it, even after it does not matter anymore.

Cheney is not running for any office, there will be no indictment of him, he does not have to defend his actions and policies. My view on this is he must believe his side of the events and information, or he could simply fade away in to the background.



K

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So far, Bush is turning out to be a great former President. He keeps his mouth shut -- unlike our former Vice President.

add Gore to that list

[high fly]

how about all the radicals he has appointed as "Czars", and all the radicals he was affiliated with before his presidency that he denied knowing about.


K


I like the fact that those "radicals" are phasing out the stop-loss orders program for the military and gave soldiers $500 more each month.

I like the fact that those "radicals" gave homeowners that $8,000 tax credit.

I like the fact that those "radicals" qualified 4 million more children for SCHIP

I like the fact that those "radicals" erased the legal opinions that justified the torture program

I like the fact that those "radicals" closed down the secret prisons and are closing down Gitmo

I like the fact that those "radicals" negotiated with Russia to reduce nuclear arsenals by about a third

I like the fact that those "radicals" increased the child care tax credit

I like the fact that those "radicals" nearly doubled the write-off for small business investments

I like the fact that those "radicals" reversed the ban on stem cell research

I like the fact that those "radicals"passed that $2,500 tax credit for college expenses

I like the fact that those "radicals" made Afghanistan the military priority instead of Iraq and dramatically increased troop levels in Afghanistan

I like the fact that those "radicals"revoked Executive Order 13233 which made presidential records secret

I like the fact that those "radicals" made presidential appointees agree to not work for lobbying firms after they leave government service

I like the fact that those "radicals"put a $500,000 cap on executive bonuses for companies receiving bailouts

[badmonkey]

I like the fact that those "radicals" are phasing out the stop-loss orders program for the military and gave soldiers $500 more each month.

I like the fact that those "radicals" gave homeowners that $8,000 tax credit.

I like the fact that those "radicals" qualified 4 million more children for SCHIP

I like the fact that those "radicals" erased the legal opinions that justified the torture program

I like the fact that those "radicals" closed down the secret prisons and are closing down Gitmo

I like the fact that those "radicals" negotiated with Russia to reduce nuclear arsenals by about a third

I like the fact that those "radicals" increased the child care tax credit

I like the fact that those "radicals" nearly doubled the write-off for small business investments

I like the fact that those "radicals" reversed the ban on stem cell research

I like the fact that those "radicals"passed that $2,500 tax credit for college expenses

I like the fact that those "radicals" made Afghanistan the military priority instead of Iraq and dramatically increased troop levels in Afghanistan

I like the fact that those "radicals"revoked Executive Order 13233 which made presidential records secret

I like the fact that those "radicals" made presidential appointees agree to not work for lobbying firms after they leave government service

I like the fact that those "radicals"put a $500,000 cap on executive bonuses for companies receiving bailouts

Which of Obama's czars did any one of those things?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I like the fact that those "radicals" are phasing out the stop-loss orders program for the military and gave soldiers $500 more each month.

I like the fact that those "radicals" gave homeowners that $8,000 tax credit.

I like the fact that those "radicals" qualified 4 million more children for SCHIP

I like the fact that those "radicals" erased the legal opinions that justified the torture program

I like the fact that those "radicals" closed down the secret prisons and are closing down Gitmo

I like the fact that those "radicals" negotiated with Russia to reduce nuclear arsenals by about a third

I like the fact that those "radicals" increased the child care tax credit

I like the fact that those "radicals" nearly doubled the write-off for small business investments

I like the fact that those "radicals" reversed the ban on stem cell research

I like the fact that those "radicals"passed that $2,500 tax credit for college expenses

I like the fact that those "radicals" made Afghanistan the military priority instead of Iraq and dramatically increased troop levels in Afghanistan

I like the fact that those "radicals"revoked Executive Order 13233 which made presidential records secret

I like the fact that those "radicals" made presidential appointees agree to not work for lobbying firms after they leave government service

I like the fact that those "radicals"put a $500,000 cap on executive bonuses for companies receiving bailouts

Do you like how those radicals helped bring a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit? How about the radicals encouraging people to assume more debt look at cash for clunkers. The 8000 tax credit program was supposed to cost around 9 billion dollars its going to cost $16 billion. Those dopes can't even pass a bill within budget . How about the debt ceiling being raised to 12 trillion?

The Blame Bush mantra is old, yes he screwed up but Obama is Quadrupiling down on Stupidity. Big deal the dow is at 9800 look at unemployment, we can easily see a double dip recession

[high fly]

Do you like how those radicals helped bring a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit?


The deficit this year will rest squarely on the shoulders of George W. Bush.
His signiture is the one found on the bottom line of this year's budget.
You can look it up.





How about the radicals encouraging people to assume more debt look at cash for clunkers.

Yeah, look at cash for clunkers.
It got 690,000 gas-guzzling crappy old cars off the road.
It replaced them with 690,000 new cars which get better mileage, thus lowering the demand for oil to the degreee those cars got better mileage.
It got people in the showrooms and dealers sold many more cars than they would have which also meant manufacturers had more work for their employees.
The program is not perfect nor will it cure all our woes, but it worked very well.



I take it you are folding on all those other points...

[badmonkey]

The deficit this year will rest squarely on the shoulders of George W. Bush.
His signiture is the one found on the bottom line of this year's budget.
You can look it up.

You mean the budget he got from the congress with the Democratic majority in both houses for the last 2 years?



Yeah, look at cash for clunkers.
It got 690,000 gas-guzzling crappy old cars off the road.
It replaced them with 690,000 new cars which get better mileage, thus lowering the demand for oil to the degreee those cars got better mileage.
It got people in the showrooms and dealers sold many more cars than they would have which also meant manufacturers had more work for their employees.
The program is not perfect nor will it cure all our woes, but it worked very well.

Did it really replace them all with cars that get better mileage? Were all the cars that got traded in gas guzzlers? Couldn't some of those cars have been given to poor people that have no access to grocery stores in their neighborhoods instead of just destroyed?

[earthbrown]

You mean the budget he got from the congress with the Democratic majority in both houses for the last 2 years?



Did it really replace them all with cars that get better mileage? Were all the cars that got traded in gas guzzlers? Couldn't some of those cars have been given to poor people that have no access to grocery stores in their neighborhoods instead of just destroyed?

The program took 700,000 used cars out of the economy, many I will be liberal and say 70% were junk to begin with, but the other were decent cars, that would have went to auction in a regular trade in envoirnment, and then resold to people wanting cars in the $5000 range.

This program took 200,000+ cars that could have been resold and used by lower income people to get to jobs, turn into work trucks, farm vehicles, etc.

I personally hauled a 93 Ford bronco, 60k on it, immaculate condition, that went to the dealer do be destroyed for cash for clunkers. The car was legally registered so I used it to drive around to a hotel one night, and I was sad that it would be lost.

Look at youtube for all the uselessly wasted cars.

Most of the people who benefited from this program were middle and upperclass, because they still needed to qualify for financing on the remaining balance of the car.

The program did nothing but provide a direct subsidy to the dealers, manufacturers, haulers, and employees in the automobile industry. It most helped the new car dealers who refused to budge on MSRP, for cars being sold in this program.

This has effected the used car industry, the larger part of the car sales industry, by creating a shortage and shortfall in cars. Cars at the auctions now are going for the same price they did 2 years ago, causing cars on dealers lots to go up. This prevents people from buying quality used cars, as the prices skyrocketed.

Personal for instance.

MY 04 Saab 9-5 ARC 45k miles, was bought for $10,300 at auction in the spring of 08, now if I was to send my 04 Saab back to the auction, I could get $9500-9800, with 80k on it now.

Cars that were going for $4000 last year are now going for $5000, because this program took a bunch of cars out of the market.

Scrap prices and used parts are being DRASTICALLY lowered due to the 700,000 cars rushed into scrap yards across america. This has also created a shortage of used motors, as the dealers were compelled to destroy the motors of the cars in the program. So a motor that as in a rusted out or otherwise tired car is now taken out of the market. This will hurt the salvage yard industry, as the prices of their byproduct go down, but their work increased, thus causing the need for more work to be done but a lesser payoff.



K

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The deficit this year will rest squarely on the shoulders of George W. Bush.
His signiture is the one found on the bottom line of this year's budget.
You can look it up.







Yeah, look at cash for clunkers.
It got 690,000 gas-guzzling crappy old cars off the road.
It replaced them with 690,000 new cars which get better mileage, thus lowering the demand for oil to the degreee those cars got better mileage.
It got people in the showrooms and dealers sold many more cars than they would have which also meant manufacturers had more work for their employees.
The program is not perfect nor will it cure all our woes, but it worked very well.



I take it you are folding on all those other points...

Yes Obama inherited the deficit, but he voted for the TARP program. If he was attempting to pay down the deficit he would have some credibility. All those points on cash for clunkers does not validate your points. People were encouraged to assume more debt, a problem that got the country in its situation.

The car companies should have declared bankruptcy a while back, There are bankruptcy laws on the books, Why is the government propping up failed companies?


Many people who oppose Obama call him a Marxist/Socialist/Communist, but to be honest I really dont know how to characterize him. In many ways he is a friend to Wall St. Look how many advisers from Goldman Sachs he has. Matt Taibbi wrote a good article about that a few months back

To be honest and to be fair to him, its too early to call him a failure, hes been in office 8 months, however so many people put so much faith into him believing that he would change Washington forever but hes just another politician stuck in the quagmire of that town. Go back to this time last year, there was excitement, a fresh face , hope and change but Obama is starting to look tired and beaten in some ways