Kirk Cameron blames Darwin for everything (including the Holocaust)

[K.C.]

http://www.popeater.com/2009/09/25/kirk-cameron-defends-attack-on-darwin/?icid=main|main|dl4|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeate r.com%2F2009%2F09%2F25%2Fkirk-cameron-defends-attack-on-darwin%2F

The 'Growing Pains' alum released a video last week announcing that on Nov. 19, he and other Creationist activists will distribute a special 'Species' with a 50-page intro that slams evolution and paints Darwin as both racist and misogynistic and explicitly highlights "Adolph Hitler's undeniable connection to the theory." Nov. 21 is the 150th anniversary of the book's original publication.


Here's Mike Seaver's problem (other than the obvious)...I guess you can say that since teaching genetic variation and evolution exists, it's fair to make the leap that someone could derive the belief of genetic superiority from it.

However, that's like saying if facts didn't exist, we'd all be happier.

It's also like saying the fact that we teach Sex Ed in school is responsible for rapes....oh, damn, I just spoiled his next video...

[Drunky McBetidont]

http://www.popeater.com/2009/09/25/kirk-cameron-defends-attack-on-darwin/?icid=main|main|dl4|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeate r.com%2F2009%2F09%2F25%2Fkirk-cameron-defends-attack-on-darwin%2F




Here's Mike Seaver's problem (other than the obvious)...I guess you can say that since teaching genetic variation and evolution exists, it's fair to make the leap that someone could derive the belief of genetic superiority from it.

However, that's like saying if facts didn't exist, we'd all be happier.

It's also like saying the fact that we teach Sex Ed in school is responsible for rapes....oh, damn, I just spoiled his next video...

i hope boner kicks his ass. he really is a crazy christian, and so is his super hot wife. they probably don't fuck unless trying to get pregnant.:thumbdown:

[underdog]

Is this the creationist's equivalent to Godwin's Law?

[K.C.]

i hope boner kicks his ass. he really is a crazy christian, and so is his super hot wife. they probably don't fuck unless trying to get pregnant.:thumbdown:

They must fuck pretty regularly, then...doesn't he have something like seven kids?

I think his sister DJ Tanner is also uber-Christian, but not quite as vocal about it.


It's a shame...she turned into a hottie, too.

[Dell]

http://www.popeater.com/2009/09/25/kirk-cameron-defends-attack-on-darwin/?icid=main|main|dl4|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeate r.com%2F2009%2F09%2F25%2Fkirk-cameron-defends-attack-on-darwin%2F




Here's Mike Seaver's problem (other than the obvious)...I guess you can say that since teaching genetic variation and evolution exists, it's fair to make the leap that someone could derive the belief of genetic superiority from it.

However, that's like saying if facts didn't exist, we'd all be happier.

It's also like saying the fact that we teach Sex Ed in school is responsible for rapes....oh, damn, I just spoiled his next video...

Hitler was connected to Darwin...hmmm...thought Hitler was a Christian with problems with Darwinism (and Jews)...them crazy Christians...

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

http://www.popeater.com/2009/09/25/kirk-cameron-defends-attack-on-darwin/?icid=main|main|dl4|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeate r.com%2F2009%2F09%2F25%2Fkirk-cameron-defends-attack-on-darwin%2F




Here's Mike Seaver's problem (other than the obvious)...I guess you can say that since teaching genetic variation and evolution exists, it's fair to make the leap that someone could derive the belief of genetic superiority from it.

However, that's like saying if facts didn't exist, we'd all be happier.

It's also like saying the fact that we teach Sex Ed in school is responsible for rapes....oh, damn, I just spoiled his next video...

I kinda see what he's saying. It wasn't Darwin singlehandedly but rather his influence. Darwin told lies that directly contradicted scientific fact. These lies were perpetuated by the unwise and other agents of Satan, right up to Hitler. It's a case of the once righteous but uneducated man, following the evil man who used cunning and promises to sway the hearts of man. That's why we have to remember what the Bible says; "To promise and give nothing is comfort to a fool."

[underdog]

I kinda see what he's saying. It wasn't Darwin singlehandedly but rather his influence. Darwin told lies that directly contradicted scientific fact. These lies were perpetuated by the unwise and other agents of Satan, right up to Hitler. It's a case of the once righteous but uneducated man, following the evil man who used cunning and promises to sway the hearts of man. That's why we have to remember what the Bible says; "To promise and give nothing is comfort to a fool."

:ohmy:

[Drunky McBetidont]

:ohmy:

exactly

[red_red_red]

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/10/23/633603995427862862-darwinawards.jpg

[red_red_red]

I kinda see what he's saying. It wasn't Darwin singlehandedly but rather his influence. Darwin told lies that directly contradicted scientific fact. These lies were perpetuated by the unwise and other agents of Satan, right up to Hitler. It's a case of the once righteous but uneducated man, following the evil man who used cunning and promises to sway the hearts of man. That's why we have to remember what the Bible says; "To promise and give nothing is comfort to a fool."
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_11-nzoYFuQU/SRuSk8TorEI/AAAAAAAAEiw/5xeeCOXznFc/s400/funny-pictures-kitten-bites-cable.jpg

[Dell]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_11-nzoYFuQU/SRuSk8TorEI/AAAAAAAAEiw/5xeeCOXznFc/s400/funny-pictures-kitten-bites-cable.jpg

:laugh:...that one made me laugh...and it wasn't just my distain for cats...

[keithy_19]

You guys don't get it. Darwin came to Hitler in a dream telling him that if he eliminated the Jewish population of the world he would turn into a magical unicorn.

Cameron is just trying to get this tidbit out to the masses.

To be completely serious, I personally believe that creationism and evolution can go hand in hand. But that's just me. *I don't like people who force things on me. No matter what it is.

EDIT: *There are exceptions, of course.

[K.C.]

To be completely serious, I personally believe that creationism and evolution can go hand in hand. But that's just me. I don't like people who force things on me. No matter what it is.

I don't understand why Christians don't embrace that argument more.

It is very easy to reconcile with the Bible (provided you don't interpret every word as literal truth).

The whole 'creating Adam from the dirt' and 'Eve from Adam's rib' thing could very easily be considered metaphor for the evolutionary process if you're a Christian.

[KnoxHarrington]

I don't understand why Christians don't embrace that argument more.

It is very easy to reconcile with the Bible (provided you don't interpret every word as literal truth).

The whole 'creating Adam from the dirt' and 'Eve from Adam's rib' thing could very easily be considered metaphor for the evolutionary process if you're a Christian.

The Catholic Church has actually said evolutionary theory does not conflict with Christianity.

But you've touched on the problem: nutbars like Cameron want to say the world was created in 6 24 hour periods roughly 6,000 years ago. The Bible must be taken as literal truth, exactly as it was written.

[furie]

i've never understood the irrational fear people have of evolution, or any new scientific precept


----------------
Now playing: Live - Selling The Drama (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/live/track/selling+the+drama)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[K.C.]

The Catholic Church has actually said evolutionary theory does not conflict with Christianity.

But you've touched on the problem: nutbars like Cameron want to say the world was created in 6 24 hour periods roughly 6,000 years ago. The Bible must be taken as literal truth, exactly as it was written.

It's also another reason why there's such wide variations in politics between Catholics and 'Christians.'

Many of your hardline Christian churches interpret the whole part of God giving Adam power over the Earth as God literally telling him to use all the Earth's resources without so much as a second thought. Couple that with that segment's belief that there is an eventual literal second coming of Christ that will end the Earth and that's how you get the hard right-wing Christians lining up with free range unbridled capitalism, no care for environmental stewardship, and so on down the line.

The Catholic interpretation is a little more liberal, thus most American Catholics being slightly more liberal politically. I think they generally regard that part of the bible as God giving stewardship of the Earth to man, meaning that man is intended to preserve and maintain it and all that lives on it.

[Furtherman]

I like his proof of god: the banana!

[Crispy123]

Isnt this the underage chick that Ronni B pointed out that ESD and Pepper Hicks jack to?

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[Drunky McBetidont]

Isnt this the underage chick that Ronni B pointed out that ESD and Pepper Hicks jack to?

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you are thinking of boxie, the 14 year old they jack too.

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

I like his proof of god: the banana!

While I appreciate your humour, can I ask that we keep this discussion serious? I think it's important and we should share our ideas so as to educate each other. Thank you for understanding.

[Crispy123]

you are thinking of boxie, the 14 year old they jack too.

Thats the one. Thanks budday!

[Furtherman]

While I appreciate your humour, can I ask that we keep this discussion serious? I think it's important and we should share our ideas so as to educate each other. Thank you for understanding.

It's the perfect eating food, made for our abilities. It's not like any 'ol monkey could do it!

[K.C.]

While I appreciate your humour, can I ask that we keep this discussion serious? I think it's important and we should share our ideas so as to educate each other. Thank you for understanding.

Don't fall for their Harry Potter devil sorcery, CDS...you have to remember, RonFez.net is part of the jew media.

[Drunky McBetidont]

Don't fall for their Harry Potter devil sorcery, CDS...you have to remember, RonFez.net is part of the jew media.

wizardry!!!!
:banning:

[disneyspy]

...you have to remember, RonFez.net is part of the jew media.

no wonder fez hates us

[Furtherman]

Don't fall for their Harry Potter devil sorcery, CDS...you have to remember, RonFez.net is part of the jew media.

Oh c'mon. Show me that smile again!

[K.C.]

wizardry!!!!
:banning:

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[jauble]

I really have an opinion on this but each time I try to post this my phone has errors. I blame the dodo.

[underdog]

While I appreciate your humour, can I ask that we keep this discussion serious? I think it's important and we should share our ideas so as to educate each other. Thank you for understanding.

He's not joking. Kirk Cameron has a video claiming it.

[Furtherman]

Underdog is wise. Obviously a fellow banana believer.

[underdog]

Underdog is wise. Obviously a fellow banana believer.

You're just an agent of Satan.

[Furtherman]

You're just an agent of Satan.

Sharing the laughter...

[K.C.]

Sharing the laughter...

and loooooooooooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeee..

*family runs in to the house...Alan Thicke hangs around a second or two extra just to let you know it's a Jason episode...*

da-da da-daaa da DA!

[K.C.]

Do you think Leo returns his calls these days?

He WAS his adoptive big brother who rescued him from a troubled childhood...

[keithy_19]

I don't understand why Christians don't embrace that argument more.

It is very easy to reconcile with the Bible (provided you don't interpret every word as literal truth).

The whole 'creating Adam from the dirt' and 'Eve from Adam's rib' thing could very easily be considered metaphor for the evolutionary process if you're a Christian.

I think a lot of people think of evolution as the proof that there isn't a higher being, and takes away from the amazing idea of creationism. To me, evolution is pretty amazing.

And I agree that some take things in the Bible far too literaly. Kind of like Revelation. I think it is more of a historic piece concentrating on the persecution of Christians over Roman rule. A rallying cry letting fellow Christians know that that there will be a day where they can worship openly and won't be persecuted for their beliefs.

[Furtherman]

It's nice to see keithy talking sense!

[keithy_19]

It's nice to see keithy talking sense!

I always make sense. Only, now instead of putting it between the lines I'm just putting it straight out there.

[underdog]

And I agree that some take things in the Bible far too literaly. Kind of like Revelation. I think it is more of a historic piece concentrating on the persecution of Christians over Roman rule. A rallying cry letting fellow Christians know that that there will be a day where they can worship openly and won't be persecuted for their beliefs.

Who decides what part of the bible you're supposed to take literally?

[Drunky McBetidont]

Who decides what part of the bible you're supposed to take literally?

baby jesus and moses

[underdog]

baby jesus and moses

It's something I don't understand about religion. Someone who follows the bible to the letter is labeled a kook by most other religious people. Yet the people who just pick and choose whatever things look nice to them in the bible act like they're good christians. Who gets to choose?

[Furtherman]

I always make sense. Only, now instead of putting it between the lines I'm just putting it straight out there.

I wish that were true. The only lines you usually put it between is Glen Beck's crazy frown lines.

[Furtherman]

It's something I don't understand about religion. Someone who follows the bible to the letter is labeled a kook by most other religious people. Yet the people who just pick and choose whatever things look nice to them in the bible act like they're good christians. Who gets to choose?

Neither of them choose wisely.

[keithy_19]

Who decides what part of the bible you're supposed to take literally?

The individual. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't look at the context in which the Bible was written which scews their opinion.

In my opinion, if people were to follow the teachings of Jesus (which are very similar to the teachings of Buddha) the world would be a better place.

[Drunky McBetidont]

It's something I don't understand about religion. Someone who follows the bible to the letter is labeled a kook by most other religious people. Yet the people who just pick and choose whatever things look nice to them in the bible act like they're good christians. Who gets to choose?

i think that most people that read the bible are doing it because they are looking for direction or a solution to a life problem. when you read for purpose like that certain passages will stick out and be more meaningful or "true"

that being said, the bible has been used to justify the most outrageous forms of nonsense ever.

[disneyspy]

jesus' one true message was love everybody and yourself

thats impossible cuz some of you are real assholes

[Drunky McBetidont]

jesus' one true message was love everybody and yourself

thats impossible cuz some of you are real assholes

:wub:

[keithy_19]

I wish that were true. The only lines you usually put it between is Glen Beck's crazy frown lines.

I put them between his happy frown lines too. So, psh.

I still watch Beck. I enjoy the show. But when he says something on air that I find myself agreeing with, I check it. I go to places like the huffington post and read the opposite view points. I'm trying to not be a sheep.

[Furtherman]

You have to be 9 feet tall to be sheepy.

[underdog]

The individual. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't look at the context in which the Bible was written which scews their opinion.

In my opinion, if people were to follow the teachings of Jesus (which are very similar to the teachings of Buddha) the world would be a better place.

If more people just respected their common man, with or without religion, the world would be a better place. Religion, more often than not, is the thing that gets in the way.

[keithy_19]

If more people just respected their common man, with or without religion, the world would be a better place. Religion, more often than not, is the thing that gets in the way.

I agree with this. But the teachings of Jesus and Buddha are both incredibly kind. It's others who manage to distort them into something that is beneficial to them.

[Furtherman]

If more people just respected their common man, with or without religion, the world would be a better place. Religion, more often than not, is the thing that gets in the way.


I told you all underdog was wise!

[foodcourtdruide]

I put them between his happy frown lines too. So, psh.

I still watch Beck. I enjoy the show. But when he says something on air that I find myself agreeing with, I check it. I go to places like the huffington post and read the opposite view points. I'm trying to not be a sheep.

Exposing yourself to two extreme opposite sources of information is not a good way to get accurate news.

[keithy_19]

Exposing yourself to two extreme opposite sources of information is not a good way to get accurate news.

It does help with realizing the best view is usually somewhere in the middle.

[Zorro]

He can be nutty as hell, but he's still coming home to this every night !

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n67/Chas4604/c41wiseydab8dybi.jpg

[A.J.]

He can be nutty as hell, but he's still coming home to this every night !

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n67/Chas4604/c41wiseydab8dybi.jpg

Yeah, but remember: she believes this shit too.

[TheMojoPin]

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[Dude!]

apparently, Kirk was not always
such a prude

NSFW

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/canalside/100malestars/nude/CameronKirk01.jpg

[FrogSlayer]

that was disturbing. you are not nice

[hanso]

LOl
Always look at url addy in bar deal when having mouse over it.
Sure glad I did.

Googlehammer is legit though.

[Doogie]

apparently, Kirk was not always
such a prude

NSFW

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/canalside/100malestars/nude/CameronKirk01.jpg

My eyes!! My eyes!!! Ohhh God....what happened to my eyes?!?!?!?!?!

[Doogie]

Isnt this the underage chick that Ronni B pointed out that ESD and Pepper Hicks jack to?

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This is not the girl, as someone noted earlier that was Boxy...but I love this girl nonetheless. She makes me feel tingly and she makes goods arguments...Ok they aren't necessarily good. I just like her accent.

:wub:

[keithy_19]

This is not the girl, as someone noted earlier that was Boxy...but I love this girl nonetheless. She makes me feel tingly and she makes goods arguments...Ok they aren't necessarily good. I just like her accent.

:wub:

I agree with some of her points, though I disagree with some as well.

I mostly enjoy how she says kirk, cause I imagine her saying cock.

[thepaulo]

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this clip was suppose to be about darwinism but they don't get to it until about 3:45 in

[foodcourtdruide]

It does help with realizing the best view is usually somewhere in the middle.

Why even bother going through that process? The closer to objectivity a conversation gets, the more info you will get. I learn a million times more from NPR than Air America or Foxnews.

[dino_electropolis]

Yeah, but remember: she believes this shit too.



I'd belive anything she wanted me to.

[keithy_19]

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[epo]

this clip was suppose to be about darwinism but they don't get to it until about 3:45 in

He talks about social darwinism like the fucking hack that he is.

[GregoryJoseph]

Why do people fear that which cannot be explained?

Why even try to explain it?

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

Why do people fear that which cannot be explained?

Why even try to explain it?

Why do some write off most things as being inexplicable? I cannot tell you how many people I know who've written off evolution saying that they'll never know how it works and trying to understand it is an attempt by man to outdo god.

[Furtherman]

Not really. Pick up an issue of Scientific American, they explain it nicely.

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

Not really. Pick up an issue of Scientific American, they explain it nicely.

I said that. I said I've tried to explain it to people and that is their response.

[EliSnow]

Imagine where humanity would be if it didn't strive to explain what they couldn't explain.

We would probably still be in caves.

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

Imagine where humanity would be if it didn't strive to explain what they couldn't explain.

We would probably still be in caves.

Absolutely. I think the blindly religious people are holding science back in a major way.

[GregoryJoseph]

Imagine where humanity would be if it didn't strive to explain what they couldn't explain.

We would probably still be in caves.

You mean we wouldn't level mountains, raze forests, and destroy the landscape for the sake of putting up more condominium complexes?

Doesn't sound half bad...

[EliSnow]

You mean we wouldn't level mountains, raze forests, and destroy the landscape for the sake of putting up more condominium complexes?

Doesn't sound half bad...

Yes, let's ignore all the positives of progress and just wish we were back when average life span was under 40 , and half of births killed mothers because progress has some negatives. How wise.

[Furtherman]

I said that. I said I've tried to explain it to people and that is their response.

Ah, well tell them that... And that space monkeys don't eat the sun during an eclipse.

Although that would be cool.

[GregoryJoseph]

Yes, let's ignore all the positives of progress and just wish we were back when average life span was under 40 , and half of births killed mothers because progress has some negatives. How wise.

No overpopulation either.

Good point.

[JohnCharles]

Don't forget that the good ole USA has among the highest infant mortality rates in the world!

[TheMojoPin]

Like any of us soft lumps would tolerate living before indoor plumbing and toilet paper.

[JohnCharles]

But imagine the freedom of pooping while walking.

[Furtherman]

But imagine the freedom of pooping while walking.

Ahhh to be 90.

[GregoryJoseph]

Wearing an uncomfortable suit and a rope around your neck, sitting in an office staring at a computer.

This is progress?

It seems more and more maniacal to me every day.

[TheMojoPin]

Gvac would rather wear shit-stained bloomers and poofy shirts and powedered wigs.

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

Gvac would rather wear shit-stained bloomers and poofy shirts and powedered wigs.

What does GVac have to do with anything?

Back on topic, there are those like GJ and there are those like myself who are technophiles. The GJs are disgusted with what they think is a loss of humanity and nature and these other Romantic, Transcendental concepts. Those like myself are disgusted with how much the human race is holding itself back with science and technology and would like to see a much faster rate of scientific growth.

[GregoryJoseph]

What does GVac have to do with anything?

Back on topic, there are those like GJ and there are those like myself who are technophiles. The GJs are disgusted with what they think is a loss of humanity and nature and these other Romantic, Transcendental concepts. Those like myself are disgusted with how much the human race is holding itself back with science and technology and would like to see a much faster rate of scientific growth.

Bless you, Charlie. I'm glad you understand.

And you're young; I would expect nothing less from you than your current point of view.

As you grow older, however, you realize all of the "time saving" gadgets and "conveniences" we have are neither time saving nor convenient, and life passes you by without you having ever stopped to smell the roses, so to speak.

[Drunky McBetidont]

What does GVac have to do with anything?

Back on topic, there are those like GJ and there are those like myself who are technophiles. The GJs are disgusted with what they think is a loss of humanity and nature and these other Romantic, Transcendental concepts. Those like myself are disgusted with how much the human race is holding itself back with science and technology and would like to see a much faster rate of scientific growth.

we cannot destroy the planet to reach our ends. wow how ironic is that sentence? what i mean is, the further we move from the natural path, the faster we meet our demise.

[GregoryJoseph]

we cannot destroy the planet to reach our ends. wow how ironic is that sentence? what i mean is, the further we move from the natural path, the faster we meet our demise.

Exactly!

We're literally racing to our destruction.

It will come soon enough. Why speed up the process?

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

we cannot destroy the planet to reach our ends. wow how ironic is that sentence? what i mean is, the further we move from the natural path, the faster we meet our demise.

Exactly!

We're literally racing to our destruction.

It will come soon enough. Why speed up the process?

You two are assuming that we can't save the planet and advance, but we can. We are just being held back by the greedy and the "letter of the law" religious.

[GregoryJoseph]

You two are assuming that we can't save the planet and advance, but we can. We are just being held back by the greedy and the "letter of the law" religious.

Not true at all.

The religious aren't the ones shredding the forests and building factories and housing projects on every last available space.

[TooLowBrow]

Not true at all.

The religious aren't the ones shredding the forests and building factories and housing projects on every last available space.

every inch of the vatican city is paved.

[Drunky McBetidont]

i think a betirant on science is coming in chat. a few shotguns first, then i share my thoughts.

[TheMojoPin]

Gvac, you silly loon. When has mankind ever just "settled" at one point? We've always looked to grow and to expand. You're seemingly arguing against human nature.

[JohnCharles]

This planet has weathered worse than what humans can do to it.

Come on people - It's 4.6 billion years old!

The universe provides more opportunity to start again that our minds can ever comprehend.

When we are dead and gone, it will be another few hundred million years before another species even learns of what we did, let alone that we existed.

[BlackSpider]

You silly loon. When has mankind ever just "settled" at one point? We've always looked to grow and to expand.

See U.S.A. from 1980 to 2009...

[Drunky McBetidont]

every inch of the vatican city is paved.

looking at the earth from a certain orbit shows mankinds expansion as a cancer on an organism. pave it all? stop the madness.

[TheMojoPin]

See U.S.A. from 1980 to 2009...

See everything ever.

PERIOD.

[TheMojoPin]

looking at the earth from a certain orbit shows mankinds expansion as a cancer on an organism. pave it all? stop the madness.

A dirty hippie orbit, maybe.

[Drunky McBetidont]

Gvac, you silly loon. When has mankind ever just "settled" at one point? We've always looked to grow and to expand. You're seemingly arguing against human nature.

manifest destiny is a construct of man, not nature.

[JohnCharles]

Gvac, you silly loon. When has mankind ever just "settled" at one point? We've always looked to grow and to expand. You're seemingly arguing against human nature.

But as much as humans push to expand, the earth has pushed back and harder.

[TheMojoPin]

manifest destiny is a construct of man, not nature.

I said "human nature," not "nature."

[TheMojoPin]

But as much as humans push to expand, the earth has pushed back and harder.

Good for her.

[Drunky McBetidont]

This planet has weathered worse than what humans can do to it.

Come on people - It's 4.6 billion years old!

The universe provides more opportunity to start again that our minds can ever comprehend.

When we are dead and gone, it will be another few hundred million years before another species even learns of what we did, let alone that we existed.

we are here to make plastic. we have done it. pack your bags. we are leaving. g. carlin c. 1993

[Drunky McBetidont]

Good for her.

him

[JohnCharles]

Either way, it is a losing battle that humanity fights to conquer nature.

Unpredictability would need to be null and void before we can truly harness nature and make it work for us.

[TheMojoPin]

Boozy McFartpants gets a boner over that stupid speech by Agent Smith in The Matrix.

[GregoryJoseph]

Either way, it is a losing battle that humanity fights to conquer nature.

My point exactly.

So why do we try?

[JohnCharles]

My point exactly.

So why do we try?

The instinct to survive.

It is embedded within us all.

Instead, survival should be looked at as living in harmony with what surrounds you not building up arms against nature.

[TheMojoPin]

Because we can have a hell of a ride in the meantime. QUIT PISSING IN THE PUNCHBOWL AT OUR PARTY, JERK NUGGET.

[Drunky McBetidont]

Boozy McFartpants gets a boner over that stupid speech by Agent Smith in The Matrix.

what the fuck are you talking about? are you quoting movies to defend my philosophy??? you are stupider than i thought if that is the case.

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

My point exactly.

So why do we try?

Good point G. You're going to die one day, so why do anything worthwhile before you do?


You can't think like that. Besides your view of nature seems to be very myopic. I think of space as a part of nature and I think it's our duty to try exploring that as well and we should consider using its resources.

[GregoryJoseph]

The instinct to survive.

It is embedded within us all.

Instead, survival should be looked at as living in harmony with what surrounds you not building up arms against nature.

Precisely.

In order to survive we must realize we are a part of nature, not its enemy.

The instinct to survive has nothing to do with the way we massacre our surroundings.

[JohnCharles]

We get proven wrong year after year that we cannot defeat nature.

Look at Flu vaccinations.

Each year, a new strain of a virus, a virus, manages to mutate and send the medical community scrambling to find answers.

If we are scared by a single cell organism, we could never truly control this world.

[TheMojoPin]

what the fuck are you talking about? are you quoting movies to defend my philosophy??? you are stupider than i thought if that is the case.

Quiet, Beershits McShakes.

Now I'm off to go rape a tree!

[Drunky McBetidont]

when the rapture comes and you fuckheads and kirk cameron are taken to heaven (or the mothership or whatever stupid shit you believe) i will be here to clean up your mess and eat your plastic. fucktards.

shotguns!!!!

[GregoryJoseph]

Good point G. You're going to die one day, so why do anything worthwhile before you do?


You can't think like that. Besides your view of nature seems to be very myopic. I think of space as a part of nature and I think it's our duty to try exploring that as well and we should consider using its resources.

Your definition of doing anything "worthwhile" seems myopic.

To you, attempting to conquer the earth, the ocean, and space is "worthwhile."

To me it's farcical.

It's far more worthwhile to live a life of peaceful coexistence while evolving spiritually, not financially.

What folly. We battle one another over green paper.

It's the height of absurdity.

[TheMojoPin]

Your definition of doing anything "worthwhile" seems myopic.

To you, attempting to conquer the earth, the ocean, and space is "worthwhile."

To me it's farcical.

It's far more worthwhile to live a life of peaceful coexistence while evolving spiritually, not financially.

What folly. We battle one another over green paper.

It's the height of absurdity.

All of this coming from the monster who wants to pave the oceans. (http://www.google.com/search?gbv=2&hl=en&safe=off&q=+site:ronfez.net+pave+oceans+ronfez.net&ei=cGDBSsaHCtHS8AbrjbDDAQ&sa=X&oi=forum_cluster&resnum=1&ct=more-results&ved=0CA4QrQIwAA)

The lobster covered in cheese rears his ugly head once again!

[Drunky McBetidont]

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[FrogSlayer]

Either way, it is a losing battle that humanity fights to conquer nature.

Unpredictability would need to be null and void before we can truly harness nature and make it work for us.

Katrina is an example, it is said that the impact on New O would have been lessened had the wetland coastline not been destroyed. And why do we develop land below sea level?
Risky real estate and nature took some of it back.

[GregoryJoseph]

All of this coming from the monster who wants to pave the oceans. (http://www.google.com/search?gbv=2&hl=en&safe=off&q=+site:ronfez.net+pave+oceans+ronfez.net&ei=cGDBSsaHCtHS8AbrjbDDAQ&sa=X&oi=forum_cluster&resnum=1&ct=more-results&ved=0CA4QrQIwAA)

Or perhaps Gvac spoke sarcastically, hoping to illuminate man's folly.

[JohnCharles]

Humanity is fucked.

The bible is right, but it's descriptions are wrong.

The second coming is not that of Jesus, it is of mother nature.

When this existence (if you can call it that) comes to an end, it will be those who have found a peaceful means to with nature that will be saved.

They will have no reason for nature to take them because they will will live within the construct that nature has defined and is always tinkering with.

Adaptation is key, not assimilating nature into our way of life.

[TheMojoPin]

Or perhaps Gvac spoke sarcastically, hoping to illuminate man's folly.

Or maybe he's just a sea bug swimming in melted cheddar.

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

Your definition of doing anything "worthwhile" seems myopic.

To you, attempting to conquer the earth, the ocean, and space is "worthwhile."

To me it's farcical.

It's far more worthwhile to live a life of peaceful coexistence while evolving spiritually, not financially.

What folly. We battle one another over green paper.

It's the height of absurdity.

You can live that way if you want to, but those like you who would sit and marvel and just accept things could never understand those like myself who are intrigued with the mechanics of things. While you sit and appreciate the winter I take pleasure in learning why we even have a winter and how exactly all the pieces come together. It's more about understanding things rather than just accepting them as what they are.

[Drunky McBetidont]

Or perhaps Gvac spoke sarcastically, hoping to illuminate man's folly.

i guess i am th matrix guy. it is all lost.

betirant at 10 pm est in chat for any that want to hear.

[JohnCharles]

Katrina is an example, it is said that the impact on New O would have been lessened had the wetland coastline not been destroyed. And why do we develop land below sea level?
Risky real estate and nature took some of it back.

As it will continue to.

Landslides in California, coastal flooding in low lying islands of the Pacific.

We were not meant to ravage those areas.

[TooLowBrow]

As it will continue to.

Landslides in California, coastal flooding in low lying islands of the Pacific.

We were not meant to ravage those areas.

at least not yet

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

All of this coming from the monster who wants to pave the oceans. (http://www.google.com/search?gbv=2&hl=en&safe=off&q=+site:ronfez.net+pave+oceans+ronfez.net&ei=cGDBSsaHCtHS8AbrjbDDAQ&sa=X&oi=forum_cluster&resnum=1&ct=more-results&ved=0CA4QrQIwAA)



That I could get behind. Imagine blazing to Europe on a 2 day motorcycle trip. That would be fuccin exciting as hell.

[GregoryJoseph]

i guess i am th matrix guy. it is all lost.

betirant at 10 pm est in chat for any that want to hear.

I shall attend.

[IamFogHat]

Kirk Cameron makes me proud to be a person that is a human being.

[Coach_Mac]

Who decides what part of the bible you're supposed to take literally?

I take the entire Bible literally. There are points in it that explain when an analogy or example is being used. As for the earth being 6,000 years old. The Bible also says to God a day is like a thousand years so in that case, I beleive it is left up to interpritation. There are also parables that are earthly stories with a Godly meaning.

jesus' one true message was love everybody and yourself



That's not true. His message was to share God's love. And we are to regard others as more important than ourselves.

If more people just respected their common man, with or without religion, the world would be a better place. Religion, more often than not, is the thing that gets in the way.

Religion, often does get in the way. As a Christian, I have a problem with religion. Religion is not a God-made thing, it's man-made. God only asks for a personal relationship with Him.

In all reality, there are cooky "Christians" out there (I use quotes because I doubt they are truely believers). Your Roper family, your lady from the Jesus Camp video, etc. But there are a lot of crazy non Christians too, or people who do not claim to be believers. The fact is, crazy is crazy. Some claim Christianity and some don't. As a beleiver, I am open to hearing anyones opinion on evolution, politics, faith but I personaly believe that a relationship with God is the only way to Heaven. It really all comes down to faith. And it's really hard to explain faith in God to non believers.

Non-Christians usually lump Christians into 2 catagories- crazy and normal. The "normal" ones are usually the ones who don't stand up for their faith and don't do anything to make them different from the rest of the world. The only difference between them and non-believers is the fact that they audibly claim Christianity but their actions say otherwise. Now, while there are truely crazy "Christians" like I mentioned earlier, the majority of the Christians labled as crazy are those who really attempt to seperate themselves from the rest of the world by their words and their actions. I strive to be a part of that group but I definately can't always say that I do. (even as I preview this post I notice my Kenny Powers signature and know that it's not a very "Christian" show but I sure find it funny).

As for Kirk Cameron, he gave up a career where he could have been very succesful and made millions for something he believes in. He didn't have to follow that path. He could have still claimed Christianity and been in any movie he wanted but He chose to be different and take a stand for God. I admire him for that.

Now....let us pray.:innocent:

[Furtherman]

I take the entire Bible literally.

Religion is not a God-made thing, it's man-made.

Man wrote the bible.

[Contra]

Face!

[Crispy123]

Man wrote the bible.

even worse, jews wrote the bible.

[HBox]

even worse, jews wrote the bible.

So they control the entertainment industry and Christianity? Man, they are working one really long game.

[Crispy123]

So they control the entertainment industry and Christianity? Man, they are working one really long game.

and the banks

[Dude!]

and the banks

and the powerful dradle lobby

[Serpico1103]

Man wrote the bible.

Yes, but only out of necessity. While the other gods were learning how to read and write God was creating the universe. So, after creating man, planets, other animals, stars, etc, he needed to rely on men to write down his "teachings." Luckily for us, they wrote the bible in English.
I think the new testament was written at least 50 years after Jesus' death.

[DarkHippie]

So they control the entertainment industry and Christianity? Man, they are working one really long game.

we don't rule you so much as nudge you onto the right path

[Coach_Mac]

Man wrote the bible.

First of all, the Bible has absolutely nothing to do with religion, which was the connection you were making.
Second, man wrote the Bible but I believe it is an accurate transcription of historical events, believers spreading Gods word, and Jesus' teachings

[Serpico1103]

First of all, the Bible has absolutely nothing to do with religion, which was the connection you were making.
Second, man wrote the Bible but I believe it is an accurate transcription of historical events, believers spreading Gods word, and Jesus' teachings

Why did God stop writing after the Ten Commandments?
If you believe that he actually wrote the commandments, why would you give any weight to the Bible. If God wanted more to be written down, wouldn't he have written it?

[DarkHippie]

Second, man wrote the Bible but I believe it is an accurate transcription of historical events, believers spreading Gods word, and Jesus' teachings

The bible was written in ancient hebrew, translated to greek, then to latin, then english. there are now several english versions of the same bible, each version is markedly different.

Ever play the telephone game? There is no way that the bible written 2600 years ago is the same one today

[Misteriosa]

The bible was written in ancient hebrew, translated to greek, then to latin, then english. there are now several english versions of the same bible, each version is markedly different.

Ever play the telephone game? There is no way that the bible written 2600 years ago is the same one today

yeah... gotta love the accuracy of the septuagint :happy:

[vjr97]

kirk cameron is a fucking idiot

[Coach_Mac]

Why did God stop writing after the Ten Commandments?
If you believe that he actually wrote the commandments, why would you give any weight to the Bible. If God wanted more to be written down, wouldn't he have written it?

God didn't write the ten comandments. Moses did after talking to God

[Coach_Mac]

The bible was written in ancient hebrew, translated to greek, then to latin, then english. there are now several english versions of the same bible, each version is markedly different.

Ever play the telephone game? There is no way that the bible written 2600 years ago is the same one today

The versions you read today are all translated from the original Hebrew. There and many different versions all saying the exact same thing with no exceptions.

[DarkHippie]

The versions you read today are all translated from the original Hebrew. There and many different versions all saying the exact same thing with no exceptions.

No they aren't. There isn't a person alive who can speak Ancient Hebrew

[Death Metal Moe]

This is my favorite part of that article:

"Atheism has been on the rise for years now, and the Bible of the atheists is 'The Origin of Species'," Cameron says. "We have a situation in our country where young people are entering college with a belief in God and exiting with that faith being stripped and shredded. What we want to do is have student make an informed, educated decision before they chuck their faith."

Yea, don't educate people. They may make up their own minds that religion is bullshit. Ever think people figure it out on their own dummy?

[DarkHippie]

This is my favorite part of that article:

Yea, don't educate people. They may make up their own minds that religion is bullshit. Ever think people figure it out on their own dummy?

cause everyone knows there were no athiests before 1859

[keithy_19]

I think Kirk Cameron is pretty damn dumb for basically comparing people who believe in evolution to nazis.

At the same time, however, I notice a certain kind of arrogance when it comes to people who don't believe in God. Almost as if you look down on people who do.

[Death Metal Moe]

I think Kirk Cameron is pretty damn dumb for basically comparing people who believe in evolution to nazis.

At the same time, however, I notice a certain kind of arrogance when it comes to people who don't believe in God. Almost as if you look down on people who do.

Because we do.

[keithy_19]

I just don't understand why it matters if someone believes in an afterlife or a higher being. As long as they are peaceful and don't force it upon you, who cares.

I disagree with Kirk Cameron, but the wonderful thing is that if I see him going on a tangent then I'll just change the channel or shut it off completely. Not that I really see myself watching anything with Kirk Cameron.

[Serpico1103]

God didn't write the ten comandments. Moses did after talking to God

WRONG! I hope you aren't wrong about everything regarding your beliefs.

"God said to Moses, 'Come up to Me, to the mountain, and remain there. I will give you the stone tablets, the Torah and the commandment that I have written for [the people's] instruction.'" (Exodus 24:12) also referred to as "tables of testimony" (Exodus 24:12, 31:18, 32:16) or "tables of the covenant" (Deuteronomy 9verses 9, 11, 15), which he gave to Moses.

God inscribed the commandments on tablets that he gave to Moses.
God wrote the commandments (according the the bible.) Man wrote the rest of the bible (according to the bible.)

Of course, then Moses broke the tablets, killed some people, and rewrote them. Such a peaceful religion, not like Islam.

[mikeyboy]

WRONG! I hope you aren't wrong about everything regarding your beliefs.

"God said to Moses, 'Come up to Me, to the mountain, and remain there. I will give you the stone tablets, the Torah and the commandment that I have written for [the people's] instruction.'" (Exodus 24:12) also referred to as "tables of testimony" (Exodus 24:12, 31:18, 32:16) or "tables of the covenant" (Deuteronomy 9verses 9, 11, 15), which he gave to Moses.

God inscribed the commandments on tablets that he gave to Moses.
God wrote the commandments (according the the bible.) Man wrote the rest of the bible (according to the bible.)

Of course, then Moses broke the tablets, killed some people, and rewrote them. Such a peaceful religion, not like Islam.

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[booster11373]

I just don't understand why it matters if someone believes in an afterlife or a higher being. As long as they are peaceful and don't force it upon you, who cares.

I disagree with Kirk Cameron, but the wonderful thing is that if I see him going on a tangent then I'll just change the channel or shut it off completely. Not that I really see myself watching anything with Kirk Cameron.



It does matter when peoples belief in an "afterlife" effects how we as humans have to live on this planet right now.

[keithy_19]

It does matter when peoples belief in an "afterlife" effects how we as humans have to live on this planet right now.

You didn't mention the part where I said as long as they are peaceful.

[Dude!]

Of course, then Moses broke the tablets, killed some people, and rewrote them. Such a peaceful religion, not like Islam.

you realize of course
that you are talking about Judaism

i think everyone agrees
that Judaism is a gutter religion

[Coach_Mac]

WRONG! I hope you aren't wrong about everything regarding your beliefs.

"God said to Moses, 'Come up to Me, to the mountain, and remain there. I will give you the stone tablets, the Torah and the commandment that I have written for [the people's] instruction.'" (Exodus 24:12) also referred to as "tables of testimony" (Exodus 24:12, 31:18, 32:16) or "tables of the covenant" (Deuteronomy 9verses 9, 11, 15), which he gave to Moses.

God inscribed the commandments on tablets that he gave to Moses.
God wrote the commandments (according the the bible.) Man wrote the rest of the bible (according to the bible.)

Of course, then Moses broke the tablets, killed some people, and rewrote them. Such a peaceful religion, not like Islam.


I understand your eagerness to prove me wrong. Most non believers have the same approach. We were discussing who wrote the Bible. God himself did not write the Bible, but rather humans did. It is believed that Moses wrote Exodus. Another example is like you saying Jesus wrote the book of Matthew. Jesus' words are in Matthew but Matthew wrote it.

[keithy_19]

I understand your eagerness to prove me wrong. Most non believers have the same approach. We were discussing who wrote the Bible. God himself did not write the Bible, but rather humans did. It is believed that Moses wrote Exodus. Another example is like you saying Jesus wrote the book of Matthew. Jesus' words are in Matthew but Matthew wrote it.

I believe in God. I do believe in the core teaching of Christianity, but not as much as I once did.

One of my biggest problems with the Bible is how it came to be. I understand that it's based on God's words. That he used people to record them. At the same time, however, there are so many books that were not allowed to be put into the Bible. It often makes me wonder how much of it was put in to help out a particular person in a particular time.

[Coach_Mac]

I believe in God. I do believe in the core teaching of Christianity, but not as much as I once did.

One of my biggest problems with the Bible is how it came to be. I understand that it's based on God's words. That he used people to record them. At the same time, however, there are so many books that were not allowed to be put into the Bible. It often makes me wonder how much of it was put in to help out a particular person in a particular time.

To be honest, I'm really not familiar with the history of the organization of the Bible. I think it's possible that some original Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek books are not in todays Bible but I'm not sure. However, based on what I believe, I don't think this is important. I believe that if God wanted it in there, it would be.

[booster11373]

I understand your eagerness to prove me wrong. Most non believers have the same approach. We were discussing who wrote the Bible. God himself did not write the Bible, but rather humans did. It is believed that Moses wrote Exodus. Another example is like you saying Jesus wrote the book of Matthew. Jesus' words are in Matthew but Matthew wrote it.

The Matthew that wrote the book of Matthew never met Jesus, all the gospels were written 30 to 80 years after christ.

[booster11373]

You didn't mention the part where I said as long as they are peaceful.

Peace or not belief in an afterlife effects how people live right now. Christians in America are mostly peaceful yet their involvement in things like abortian, sex ed, media censorship, does not make the wolrd a better place

And dont get me started about the rapture loons or we have dominion over the earth types!

[underdog]

To be honest, I'm really not familiar with the history of the organization of the Bible. I think it's possible that some original Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek books are not in todays Bible but I'm not sure. However, based on what I believe, I don't think this is important. I believe that if God wanted it in there, it would be.

So you're not familiar with the organization of the book you believe every word of?

[Serpico1103]

I understand your eagerness to prove me wrong. Most non believers have the same approach. We were discussing who wrote the Bible. God himself did not write the Bible, but rather humans did. It is believed that Moses wrote Exodus. Another example is like you saying Jesus wrote the book of Matthew. Jesus' words are in Matthew but Matthew wrote it.

You are proven wrong. Not by me, but by modern science. Evolution, the diversity of species, carbon dating, etc. I said "according to the bible" God wrote the commandments. So, I find it funny that people can believe that a supreme being can write, but he would rather have a "committee" get together and decide which of his words and teachings belong in the bible.

Believe in a god, but if you believe in a religion do some research.

[Coach_Mac]

The Matthew that wrote the book of Matthew never met Jesus, all the gospels were written 30 to 80 years after christ.

The Matthew that wrote Matthew was one of Jesus' 12 disciples and spent a great deal of time with Him.

So you're not familiar with the organization of the book you believe every word of?

I never claimed to be a theologian or a Bible scholar. To be honest I have not even read the entire Bible. (Have you ever tried to read Numbers?) I'm not going to pretend I'm something I'm not and I'm not going to pretend I have all the answers.

You are proven wrong. Not by me, but by modern science. Evolution, the diversity of species, carbon dating, etc. I said "according to the bible" God wrote the commandments. So, I find it funny that people can believe that a supreme being can write, but he would rather have a "committee" get together and decide which of his words and teachings belong in the bible.

Believe in a god, but if you believe in a religion do some research.

Once again, I am not interested in religion. Secondly, I don't know anything about a "committe" that got together. The Bible is stories and historical accounts that happened over many years. Like I said above, I don't have all the answers. The main purpose of the Bible is to give a history of the works of God and follow Jesus' teachings. It is designed to be a guide for a believers life and most importantly, let us know how to get to Heaven. I believe every spiritual detail in the Bible is 100% accurate. It's not a science book, and it was never intended to be that.

[Serpico1103]

Once again, I am not interested in religion. Secondly, I don't know anything about a "committe" that got together. The Bible is stories and historical accounts that happened over many years. Like I said above, I don't have all the answers. The main purpose of the Bible is to give a history of the works of God and follow Jesus' teachings. It is designed to be a guide for a believers life and most importantly, let us know how to get to Heaven. I believe every spiritual detail in the Bible is 100% accurate. It's not a science book, and it was never intended to be that.

You are not interested in "religion?"

You have an opinion on the bible, but it is without any knowledge of the book. Before you develop an opinion on what the bible is and how it should be used, how about you do some research into who wrote it, when they wrote it, and who was in charge of the final draft.

[Coach_Mac]

You are not interested in "religion?"

You have an opinion on the bible, but it is without any knowledge of the book. Before you develop an opinion on what the bible is and how it should be used, how about you do some research into who wrote it, when they wrote it, and who was in charge of the final draft.

"Religion" has nothing to do with going to Heaven. "Religion" has caused a huge amount of termoil in the world. "Religion" is something those who are not saved want to focus on. It is not about religion, it's only about a relationship with God.

I didn't say I have no knowledge of the book. I know what it teaches. As for research on the Bible, I'm a baseball coach, so I'll use this analogy... At some point in time, someone came up with the slider. Whoever came up with it, developed a great pitch. They may have even written down the proper technique. I don't need to know the history of the slider. I don't need to know who came up with it or why they did it. All I need to know is how to teach it correctly because if it is thrown incorrectly, it can damage a pitchers arm.

I believe that what the Bible says is the truth- not everyone does.
I believe there is only one way to Heaven- not everyone does.
I believe I have a responsibility to share God's word.

Now, through all this conversation and debate, I believe that what I'm saying is the truth and there's nothing you can say that will change my mind. Of course, i realize that you believe that what you are saying is the truth and nothing I can say will change your mind. However, I am definately open to hearing your side of the argument. Some of you have interesting thoughts, make some great points, and raise some good questions. I wish I knew more about the Bible to be able to answer them but I don't. Maybe it's something I'll look into, but only to be more prepared for this conversation next time. My faith is strong because I know what God has done for me and I know where I'll go when I die. I don't need to know every detail about the Bible but it's good to know that there are people out there who do. This may be a long shot but I encourage you to really do some research on it.

[KatPw]

I wish the Creationists would stop beating around the bush and say what they really want: The bible taught in schools, and not in a Comparative Religion class or a Bible as Literature segment in English.
They keep crying "teach the controversy!" but there IS no controversy. There is only a controversy if you believe the definition of a scientific theory is summed up by one word "opinion". They think theory always=opinion. That is not the case.
And don't get me started on the fact that the creation myth of Judeo-Christianity is stolen from other creation myths that pre-date Judeo-Christianity.

[Death Metal Moe]

you realize of course
that you are talking about Judaism

i think everyone agrees
that Judaism is a gutter religion

OK that one made me LOL. Mainly because it was against the Jews.

[foodcourtdruide]

I always find it odd that God and religion are synonymous. There are many religions that don't believe in God.

[Serpico1103]

I didn't say I have no knowledge of the book. I know what it teaches. As for research on the Bible, I'm a baseball coach, so I'll use this analogy... At some point in time, someone came up with the slider. Whoever came up with it, developed a great pitch. They may have even written down the proper technique. I don't need to know the history of the slider. I don't need to know who came up with it or why they did it. All I need to know is how to teach it correctly because if it is thrown incorrectly, it can damage a pitchers arm.


The only problem is the "slider" does not dictate your every action and thought.

And, studying the history of the slider may reveal a more effective way of throwing it or open you up to new pitches. So, yes, you can be lazy and just accept the "slider" as you were taught, or you can do your own research and explore the truth.

I don't expect people to spend their lives researching the bible (although you supposedly spend your lives living by its word), a couple of hours on the internet would be a nice start.

You seem settled on the fact that the Bible is God's word, but have no reason to believe that other than some guy told you that when you were little. Research, maybe your beliefs will be confirmed, or maybe they will be questioned.

[Coach_Mac]

The only problem is the "slider" does not dictate your every action and thought.

And, studying the history of the slider may reveal a more effective way of throwing it or open you up to new pitches. So, yes, you can be lazy and just accept the "slider" as you were taught, or you can do your own research and explore the truth.

I don't expect people to spend their lives researching the bible (although you supposedly spend your lives living by its word), a couple of hours on the internet would be a nice start.

You seem settled on the fact that the Bible is God's word, but have no reason to believe that other than some guy told you that when you were little. Research, maybe your beliefs will be confirmed, or maybe they will be questioned.

I don't think the Internet is the best way to learn more about God.
In the end, it all comes down to belief anf faith. I can't see the wind but I know its there. I see it's results. I know God is real because of results He's done in my life. You're right, the reason any child would believe the Bible is because an adult told them to but at some point we all grow up and make our own decisions. You've probably found that most Christians do not know the history of the Bible in terms of when it was written and by who, (the authors are credited in the the Bible but then, you would have to believe it was true to believe the authors) but that is not the important part for us. The only time it becomes an issue is in discussions like this.

[KatPw]

I don't think the Internet is the best way to learn more about God.
In the end, it all comes down to belief anf faith. I can't see the wind but I know its there. I see it's results.
That is not faith. That is science. A meteorologist can explain how wind works to you. It can be measured, and recorded, and predicted.

[Serpico1103]

I don't think the Internet is the best way to learn more about God.
In the end, it all comes down to belief anf faith. I can't see the wind but I know its there. I see it's results. I know God is real because of results He's done in my life. You're right, the reason any child would believe the Bible is because an adult told them to but at some point we all grow up and make our own decisions. You've probably found that most Christians do not know the history of the Bible in terms of when it was written and by who, (the authors are credited in the the Bible but then, you would have to believe it was true to believe the authors) but that is not the important part for us. The only time it becomes an issue is in discussions like this.

Your lack of intellectual curiosity is saddening. I used to think that hard core religious people were stupid, but I have learned that some can be intelligent, but none are interested in discovering the truth. They prefer that it is handed to them.

Even some intelligent people prefer to be given the "truth" instead of discovering their own opinion. I don't expect you to understand quantum physics. But, a couple of hours of reading to determine if a life devoted to God is the proper way might be time well spent. After all, all your actions should be based on that belief. I don't think every one of your actions are based on a concern for what causes high pressure systems.

The problem with being Christian is that you need blind faith not only in God, but in man as well.

[Coach_Mac]

Your lack of intellectual curiosity is saddening. I used to think that hard core religious people were stupid, but I have learned that some can be intelligent, but none are interested in discovering the truth. They prefer that it is handed to them.
Even some intelligent people prefer to be given the "truth" instead of discovering their own opinion. I don't expect you to understand quantum physics. But, a couple of hours of reading to determine if a life devoted to God is the proper way might be time well spent. After all, all your actions should be based on that belief. I don't think every one of your actions are based on a concern for what causes high pressure systems.

The problem with being Christian is that you need blind faith not only in God, but in man as well.

That first statement may be true of the majority of the people in this world but it couldn't be further from the truth for me. I don't know how to better explain the same thing to you again. My TRUTH, is what God is teaching me through His word. I don't need to spend "a couple of hours to determine if a life devoted to God is the way," I spend that time reading God's word. I am not the one questioning whether it is His word or not. I understand that's a hard concept for you to understand but that's what it is.

As for faith, I do not consider it "blind." Saying that would mean I have never had any proof of God's existance or have not experience His love, grace, and mercy. I have. That, again, is a concept you won't get.

Also, just to be clear, do you believe that there is no God or do you think there might be something out there, just not sure what it is?

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

I wish the Creationists would stop beating around the bush and say what they really want: The bible taught in schools, and not in a Comparative Religion class or a Bible as Literature segment in English.
They keep crying "teach the controversy!" but there IS no controversy. There is only a controversy if you believe the definition of a scientific theory is summed up by one word "opinion". They think theory always=opinion. That is not the case.
And don't get me started on the fact that the creation myth of Judeo-Christianity is stolen from other creation myths that pre-date Judeo-Christianity.

You mean the fact that the virgin birth was used in other cultures like say hinduism? Nope not gonna mention it.

[Serpico1103]

That first statement may be true of the majority of the people in this world but it couldn't be further from the truth for me. I don't know how to better explain the same thing to you again. My TRUTH, is what God is teaching me through His word. I don't need to spend "a couple of hours to determine if a life devoted to God is the way," I spend that time reading God's word. I am not the one questioning whether it is His word or not. I understand that's a hard concept for you to understand but that's what it is.
As for faith, I do not consider it "blind." Saying that would mean I have never had any proof of God's existance or have not experience His love, grace, and mercy. I have. That, again, is a concept you won't get.
Also, just to be clear, do you believe that there is no God or do you think there might be something out there, just not sure what it is?

I know there is nothing god-like out there.

Even if you believed in God, wouldn't you want to make sure that the Bible was his word. Maybe the Old Testament is, but not the New Testament. Maybe the Koran is. How are you sure that the Bible is his word?

Religion is a human necessity to fill in a gap, a psychological need we have. That is why every culture since the dawn of humanity has worshiped a higher power. Not because there is one, but because we "need" one.

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

That is not faith. That is science. A meteorologist can explain how wind works to you. It can be measured, and recorded, and predicted.

Your lack of intellectual curiosity is saddening. I used to think that hard core religious people were stupid, but I have learned that some can be intelligent, but none are interested in discovering the truth. They prefer that it is handed to them.

Even some intelligent people prefer to be given the "truth" instead of discovering their own opinion. I don't expect you to understand quantum physics. But, a couple of hours of reading to determine if a life devoted to God is the proper way might be time well spent. After all, all your actions should be based on that belief. I don't think every one of your actions are based on a concern for what causes high pressure systems.

The problem with being Christian is that you need blind faith not only in God, but in man as well.

You guys are spot on. It's the lack of interest in learning what is outside of your faith/comfort zone that is saddening. I speak from the point of view of growing up in a Christian home (unforced) going to Catholic school(although I was never Catholic) and never really buying into any of that stuff simply because I am not that kind of person. I see this in my little brother too. He is only 10 but he is very scientifically-minded and questions things. He still goes through the motions as he works it out and I don't interfere because I am interested to see how it plays out.

[Coach_Mac]

I know there is nothing god-like out there.

Even if you believed in God, wouldn't you want to make sure that the Bible was his word. Maybe the Old Testament is, but not the New Testament. Maybe the Koran is. How are you sure that the Bible is his word?

Religion is a human necessity to fill in a gap, a psychological need we have. That is why every culture since the dawn of humanity has worshiped a higher power. Not because there is one, but because we "need" one.

I'm starting to get the feeling we don't see eye to eye on the subject.

Again, you use that word "religion" that I don't like. But, let me ask you this, if it is human nature to seak a higher power (which I agree that it is), why is that the case? Where does that desire come from? Could it be God? He wants us to seek after Him so isn't it possible He created a need for Him in us?

I also don't see how someone could travel this earth and not see the existance of God, or at the very least, some higher power. Doesn't it make more since that a Devine power created this world and the cosmos than it does to say it all just "happened?" Do we all exist by accident? Is every human that's every lived on this earth different by chance?

[Contra]

I don't think that Serp sees that Mac is taking a "if it aunt broke then don't fix it" type of approach to his life. He's lived his life according to his faith and the lessons of the bible, and life has worked out for him. He's not in church every Sunday, just going on the life skills he's learned from the bible. Why would he want to do all this research if everything is gravy? Now if something happened in his life that makes him question his faith then maybe, but if it doesn't interest him then what's the point?

I'm really on the fence about the whole god thing, for a while now. At this point I think I'm an athiest, or maybe just agnostic. In any case I agree with Mac that religion is shite. I go with the Dogma style of faith...

http://img.timeinc.net/time/images/weeklypix/19990913/dogma.jpg

"Now do you believe?"

"no, but I have a great idea."

[Serpico1103]

I'm starting to get the feeling we don't see eye to eye on the subject.
Again, you use that word "religion" that I don't like. But, let me ask you this, if it is human nature to seak a higher power (which I agree that it is), why is that the case? Where does that desire come from? Could it be God? He wants us to seek after Him so isn't it possible He created a need for Him in us?
I also don't see how someone could travel this earth and not see the existance of God, or at the very least, some higher power. Doesn't it make more since that a Devine power created this world and the cosmos than it does to say it all just "happened?" Do we all exist by accident? Is every human that's every lived on this earth different by chance?

We seek God out of fear. A lack of understanding who we are and what our role is in the universe. Not because he "wants" us to seek him out. Dogs hide under beds when they hear thunder, because they don't understand it. It doesn't mean that there is a canine god throwing lighting bolts at them.

People refuse to accept that humans are just another animal. Nothing more special than the other animals we share the planet with, and in many ways less.
You see "God" because you are looking for an explanation, beyond what science has given you.

[Coach_Mac]

I don't think that Serp sees that Mac is taking a "if it aunt broke then don't fix it" type of approach to his life. He's lived his life according to his faith and the lessons of the bible, and life has worked out for him. He's not in church every Sunday, just going on the life skills he's learned from the bible. Why would he want to do all this research if everything is gravy? Now if something happened in his life that makes him question his faith then maybe, but if it doesn't interest him then what's the point?

I'm really on the fence about the whole god thing, for a while now. At this point I think I'm an athiest, or maybe just agnostic. In any case I agree with Mac that religion is shite. I go with the Dogma style of faith...

http://img.timeinc.net/time/images/weeklypix/19990913/dogma.jpg

"Now do you believe?"

"no, but I have a great idea."

Well, you're right and wrong. First, I do go to church every Sunday and teach Sunday School (not that either of those things make me a Christian or have any impact on getting me to Heaven). You made an assumption about my life, which is pretty bold, not knowing me. As it turns out, you are somewhat right in that nothing increadibly tragic has happened to me in my life yet. I could walk out of my office today and get hit by a car and my life could change dramaticlly. I like to think that my faith is strong enough to endure any trial that comes my way. Can I say that for sure? No, but if I stumble, it's because of my weaknesses, not Gods. And no matter how far I fall, He'll always be there because His love for me never changes.

[Coach_Mac]

We seek God out of fear. A lack of understanding who we are and what our role is in the universe. Not because he "wants" us to seek him out. Dogs hide under beds when they hear thunder, because they don't understand it. It doesn't mean that there is a canine god throwing lighting bolts at them.

People refuse to accept that humans are just another animal. Nothing more special than the other animals we share the planet with, and in many ways less.
You see "God" because you are looking for an explanation, beyond what science has given you.

That's the sadest life view I've ever heard.

[Furtherman]

People refuse to accept that humans are just another animal. Nothing more special than the other animals we share the planet with, and in many ways less.

That is also the most realistic view. Only our ego lets us believe that we'll be "judged" and spend "eternity" in some "place". It's a comfy story for survival purposes, but ultimately is just a story. Knowing this does not make life sad, but even more enjoyable, whereas I don't waste my time thinking of the afterlife (or fictional past), but focusing on the present.

[Coach_Mac]

That is also the most realistic view. Only our ego lets us believe that we'll be "judged" and spend "eternity" in some "place". It's a comfy story for survival purposes, but ultimately is just a story. Knowing this does not make life sad, but even more enjoyable, whereas I don't waste my time thinking of the afterlife (or fictional past), but focusing on the present.

I guess if you don't believe in an afterlife, there is nothing to focus on BUT the present. But I don't see the thought of us being judged as anything "comfy."

[Crispy123]

That first statement may be true of the majority of the people in this world but it couldn't be further from the truth for me. I don't know how to better explain the same thing to you again. My TRUTH, is what God is teaching me through His word. I don't need to spend "a couple of hours to determine if a life devoted to God is the way," I spend that time reading God's word. I am not the one questioning whether it is His word or not. I understand that's a hard concept for you to understand but that's what it is.



We get that you arent questioning if its "Gods" word or not and that is what is more than a little baffling when you make the statement I believe the Bible literally.

The organization of the Bible and the history behind it is very interesting considering there are other gods besides "Yahweh" mentioned in the Bible, who wrote many of the books has not been conclusively figured out considering the Torah or Old Testament was written before Jesus and the New Testament was written 400 or so years after Jesus at the direction of a Roman Emporer (you know the romans, they killed Jesus) and the fact that several Testaments have been discarded and the Apostles themselves were in disagreement over the meaning behind Jesus's teachings.

Just having faith in something without being able to give any kind of intelligent defense of that faith besides, "this is what I feel" is what gets most of the condescension from non-believers.
I know nothing.

I fixed that for you.

To know that we as individuals are made up of millions of cells and DNA and that there are microscopic organizism in us, on us, and all around us and then make the statement that there is nothing out there greater than us is just as nutty to me as the good Coaches statements.

[Crispy123]

That is also the most realistic view. Only our ego lets us believe that we'll be "judged" and spend "eternity" in some "place". It's a comfy story for survival purposes, but ultimately is just a story. Knowing this does not make life sad, but even more enjoyable, whereas I don't waste my time thinking of the afterlife (or fictional past), but focusing on the present.

Well if everyone had that attitude you would miss out on a lot of the technology, art. and modern society because the guys like Plato, and Pythagorous and Da Vinci were wrestling with the concepts of human beings place in the Universe and our purpose and what else is out there when they were coming up with all the great shit that has propelled human beings to where we are today.

[Furtherman]

Well if everyone had that attitude you would miss out on a lot of the technology, art. and modern society because the guys like Plato, and Pythagorous and Da Vinci were wrestling with the concepts of human beings place in the Universe and our purpose and what else is out there when they were coming up with all the great shit that has propelled human beings to where we are today.

That has nothing to do with religion. We don't need gods to excel.

[Crispy123]

That has nothing to do with religion. We don't need gods to excel.

Sorry but you are just wrong dude.

[Furtherman]

Sorry but you are just wrong dude.

How? Mankind has excelled fine on his own. In fact, he could do better if he didn't have such superstitions in the way.

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

That has nothing to do with religion. We don't need gods to excel.

Sorry but you are just wrong dude.

No he's right. All you need is a valid license for Office.


BOOOOOOOOOOOOO000000000000000oooooooooooooooo_ _ _ _ _

[Crispy123]

How? Mankind has excelled fine on his own. In fact, he could do better if he didn't have such superstitions in the way.

Im not debating the existence, like I said before from what science has shown us about the microscopic world it seems like there is probably some bigger picture we havent figured out yet.

The search for that bigger picture has undeniably led us to where we are today as a civilization, species, and planet.

Without the desire to find meaning in the world around us and what happens when we leave this world i submit that we would be picking bugs off each other, flinging poo and jacking off all day.

[Contra]

Religion, often does get in the way. As a Christian, I have a problem with religion. Religion is not a God-made thing, it's man-made. God only asks for a personal relationship with Him.

In all reality, there are cooky "Christians" out there (I use quotes because I doubt they are truely believers). Your Roper family, your lady from the Jesus Camp video, etc. But there are a lot of crazy non Christians too, or people who do not claim to be believers. The fact is, crazy is crazy. Some claim Christianity and some don't. As a beleiver, I am open to hearing anyones opinion on evolution, politics, faith but I personaly believe that a relationship with God is the only way to Heaven. It really all comes down to faith.

Yes, how could I be so bold as to think you don't attend church? You've only said that you don't like religion, but just the teachings of the bible about 10 times in this thread.

God damn, you really are just another hypocritical, brainwashed religious nut aren't you? And now you teach this religion you "have a problem with" to children every week. You are totally right Serp, I don't know what I was thinking.

[Drunky McBetidont]

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[booster11373]

The Matthew that wrote Matthew was one of Jesus' 12 disciples and spent a great deal of time with Him.



This is wrong, The person who wrote Matthew was not the Matthew who paled around with Jesus and had adventures.

The disciples were illiterate as was Jesus, the stories of them were passed along as a oral tradition and were not copied down to any text until well after Jesus death

While possible that your"Matthew" got an education and learned to read and write after Jesus floated up to the sky it is not probable

It actuality the stories were copied down decades after they were all dead or had moved on to other craziness

Matthew did not write Matthew, Mark did not write Mark, Luke did not write Luke and John did not write John

[Furtherman]

Im not debating the existence, like I said before from what science has shown us about the microscopic world it seems like there is probably some bigger picture we havent figured out yet.

The search for that bigger picture has undeniably led us to where we are today as a civilization, species, and planet.

Without the desire to find meaning in the world around us and what happens when we leave this world i submit that we would be picking bugs off each other, flinging poo and jacking off all day.

There are plenty of people to make their way through life without the desire to find meaning or what happens when we leave this world. In fact, it's those people who insist that there is a meaning and insist that they know what happens when you leave this world, that are the problem.

The rest of us are trying to live; are trying, hence the topic of this thread: to evolve.

[Crispy123]

There are plenty of people to make their way through life without the desire to find meaning or what happens when we leave this world. In fact, it's those people who insist that there is a meaning and insist that they know what happens when you leave this world, that are the problem.

The rest of us are trying to live; are trying, hence the topic of this thread: to evolve.

I fully respect your opinion FM and I agree and disagree.

Most people are sheep and are just trying to get by day to day and the whole question of why just doesnt occur to them.

Some people look around and say heres what I think and if people like it they listen, debate and either accept or disregard. They like to interact with the world around them and try to, at the very least, make the world better for themselves and a minority of these people actually try to make the world better for everyone around them.

Some people look around and see that other people are thinking or working and try to take from others without giving back.

Now any of these people have the power to affect the world around them positively or negatively, either knowingly or unknowingly.

to speak in absolutes about religion like you are is to ignore history and the very nature of the world around you.

[Furtherman]

Most people are sheep and are just trying to get by day to day and the whole question of why just doesnt occur to them.

Some people look around and say heres what I think and if people like it they listen, debate and either accept or disregard. They like to interact with the world around them and try to at the very least make the world better for themselves and a minority of these people actually try to make the world better for everyone around them.

Sounds spot on to me, but the only absolutes I speak of religion is the fact that it was created by man to explain the very nature of the world around him, in which I have looked into and researched history to come to this conclusion. We've evolved to the point that we don't need these stories anymore. Of course, many of the morals of the stories hold true with common sense, but there's no need to put an entity delivering those stories, whereas mankind should take the credit. Give ourselves a pat on the shoulder.

[foodcourtdruide]

People refuse to accept that humans are just another animal. Nothing more special than the other animals we share the planet with, and in many ways less.


So, you believe that punishments for crimes against animals should be the same as crimes against humans?

[DarkHippie]

The disciples were illiterate as was Jesus,


This is doubtful. Jews learn to read and write at a very very young age. It is an important part of the religion.

[Crispy123]

Sounds spot on to me, but the only absolutes I speak of religion is the fact that it was created by man to explain the very nature of the world around him, in which I have looked into and researched history to come to this conclusion. We've evolved to the point that we don't need these stories anymore. Of course, many of the morals of the stories hold true with common sense, but there's no need to put an entity delivering those stories, whereas mankind should take the credit. Give ourselves a pat on the shoulder.

Well the very problem I have with people like Coach Mac literally following the Bible would also be my rebuttal to your statement.

The Old Testament that is recognized and followed by all three of the major religions was written thousands of years ago by god knows who and describes various Gods and mysterious occurences and just a historical account of the world that was very different than the world we live in today.

These stories are similar to the stories of people seperated by not only time and language but oceans and continents. If all these people beleived there were Gods in heaven and they came to Earth and passed wisdom to the people on this planet, and we have used a majority of this knowledge (mathematics, astronomy, physics), who are we to say they made this shit up?

[Furtherman]

The Old Testament that is recognized and followed by all three of the major religions was written thousands of years ago by god knows who and describes various Gods and mysterious occurences and just a historical account of the world that was very different than the world we live in today.

These stories are similar to the stories of people separated by not only time and language but oceans and continents. If all these people believed there were Gods in heaven and they came to Earth and passed wisdom to the people on this planet, and we have used a majority of this knowledge (mathematics, astronomy, physics), who are we to say they made this shit up?

The historical account is not to be taken as history. There was not a great flood that covered the world. That's just borrowed from the Babylonians and other cultures that did experience great floods due to natural disasters, which happens to every culture. Even the great plagues can be contributed to a volcanic eruption in the Greek islands. Some of Israels finest scholars have been barred from teaching in Israel because they've addressed the evidence that the great exodus never happened.

I don't recall any stories about gods passing wisdom to historical figures who excelled in mathematics, astronomy or physics. Prometheus gave fire to man, but no god gave Plato the inspiration that women were as equal as men. They didn't make up these things to help mankind, they came up with these things on their own. They used their own brains through trial and error.

[Crispy123]

The historical account is not to be taken as history. There was not a great flood that covered the world. That's just borrowed from the Babylonians and other cultures that did experience great floods due to natural disasters, which happens to every culture. Even the great plagues can be contributed to a volcanic eruption in the Greek islands. Some of Israels finest scholars have been barred from teaching in Israel because they've addressed the evidence that the great exodus never happened.



Thats why I said historical account. I think its widely accepted that whomever sat down and wrote each book didnt have first hand account of everything but much was passed on through oral tradition.

The Bible is just one example and it takes from much of the oral tradition that was passed on about other religions from the Pagans to the Greeks to the Mesopotamians.

I don't recall any stories about gods passing wisdom to historical figures who excelled in mathematics, astronomy or physics. Prometheus gave fire to man, but no god gave Plato the inspiration that women were as equal as men. They didn't make up these things to help mankind, they came up with these things on their own. They used their own brains through trial and error.

Well this is where again I tell you that you are just plain wrong.

There are literally hundreds of religions/tribes/oral traditions that describe fires from heavens, UFO's, and beings from "other worlds" visiting and passing on knowledge to humans. Have you never watched the history channel man?

Im not claiming to be a groundbreaking scientist or great thinker but I would bet any amount of money that these people would tell you no one just "came up with these things on their own". All of modern science and mathematics has been built on the principles and theories that were presented to the world from the brains of people or persons or "gods" from the past.

Not to say this never happens but the people that do claim to have these visions that you speak of more than likely attribute these visions to a God.

It has been debated wether or not Pythagorean actually came up with his own theory or was just the guy who actually wrote it down and had it survive the sands of time.

[booster11373]

This is doubtful. Jews learn to read and write at a very very young age. It is an important part of the religion.

Back then? if any of the apostles or Jesus could write why is there NOTHING even second and third hand attributed to them?

I dont think so

[booster11373]

The historical account is not to be taken as history. There was not a great flood that covered the world. That's just borrowed from the Babylonians and other cultures that did experience great floods due to natural disasters, which happens to every culture. Even the great plagues can be contributed to a volcanic eruption in the Greek islands. Some of Israels finest scholars have been barred from teaching in Israel because they've addressed the evidence that the great exodus never happened.

I don't recall any stories about gods passing wisdom to historical figures who excelled in mathematics, astronomy or physics. Prometheus gave fire to man, but no god gave Plato the inspiration that women were as equal as men. They didn't make up these things to help mankind, they came up with these things on their own. They used their own brains through trial and error.

The great Exodus might have happened or not but they DID NOT build the pyrimids in bondage, which brings in to doubt about a million other things

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

Where religion loses is in its static nature and the conceit of some of it's followers. Many scientists will either tell you that there is a god or that there isn't but all will say that if given enough proof they can accept either condition. This is the nature of science - always changing always correcting. Most religions assume that there is no flaw in their doctrine just human interpretation of said doctrine.

[Serpico1103]

So, you believe that punishments for crimes against animals should be the same as crimes against humans?

Criminal law is meant to control society. It is not about morals or justice. Since our society is a human one, crimes against humans must be punished more than crimes against animals.

However, I do think that someone who hurts, unnecessarily an animal, for no useful purpose, is lower than someone who hurts a person.

[Serpico1103]

Well this is where again I tell you that you are just plain wrong.
There are literally hundreds of religions/tribes/oral traditions that describe fires from heavens, UFO's, and beings from "other worlds" visiting and passing on knowledge to humans. Have you never watched the history channel man?
Im not claiming to be a groundbreaking scientist or great thinker but I would bet any amount of money that these people would tell you no one just "came up with these things on their own". All of modern science and mathematics has been built on the principles and theories that were presented to the world from the brains of people or persons or "gods" from the past.
Not to say this never happens but the people that do claim to have these visions that you speak of more than likely attribute these visions to a God.
It has been debated wether or not Pythagorean actually came up with his own theory or was just the guy who actually wrote it down and had it survive the sands of time.

I like the leap from "modern science has been built by passing down knowledge from earlier great minds" to "gods of the past" may have helped to." SILLY!

Yes, many people have seen UFOs, lights, fires, visions, miracles, etc. More proof that any belief in God is merely filling a void inside ourselves. People see miracles because they want to belief some father figure is protecting us. If every person who saw one these things would say they now belief in a Christian god, you might have a case. But, the opposite is true, people have been having visions before there was Christianity and still do where there is no Christianity. People have visions. God and religion do not create them.

The only reason the modern religions still exist is because they are now interpreted so vaguely that you can't disprove them. Now, unlike centuries ago, the church will just claim any conflict with modern science can be explained away by reading the bible less literally.
Well, thanks, but I don't want the instruction manual for my TV to be written in metaphors, analogies, parables, etc let alone my "life manual."

[Crispy123]

I like the leap from "modern science has been built by passing down knowledge from earlier great minds" to "gods of the past" may have helped to." SILLY!

Not much of a leap really, this knowledge of science/math/astronomy was passed down orally from generation to generation and improved on eventually being written down and preserved. This is also what happened in tribes describing gods and ancestors and natural disasters. Theres the tie in for those with reading comprehension issues.

Yes, many people have seen UFOs, lights, fires, visions, miracles, etc. More proof that any belief in God is merely filling a void inside ourselves. People see miracles because they want to belief some father figure is protecting us. If every person who saw one these things would say they now belief in a Christian god, you might have a case. But, the opposite is true, people have been having visions before there was Christianity and still do where there is no Christianity. People have visions. God and religion do not create them.

The only reason the modern religions still exist is because they are now interpreted so vaguely that you can't disprove them. Now, unlike centuries ago, the church will just claim any conflict with modern science can be explained away by reading the bible less literally.
Well, thanks, but I don't want the instruction manual for my TV to be written in metaphors, analogies, parables, etc let alone my "life manual."

I like how you dismiss the unexplained as human imagination and then go on to imply modern science requires no faith and that the, im assuming, "christian" church is so dismissive of dissenting opinions.

Also i like that you dont want to debate my theory that modern science has proven there are so many things going on on a micro level that we barely know about so why wouldnt it be going on a macro level as well.

[Serpico1103]

Theres the tie in for those with reading comprehension issues.

I like how you dismiss the unexplained as human imagination and then go on to imply modern science requires no faith and that the, im assuming, "christian" church is so dismissive of dissenting opinions.

Also i like that you dont want to debate my theory that modern science has proven there are so many things going on on a micro level that we barely know about so why wouldnt it be going on a macro level as well.

There is no higher power. There is no proof. Science is learning more and more about who we are and where we come from. However, unlike your nonsensical theory, they move further and further from a "higher power" theory to a "energy and matter" idea.

I dismiss all religions, not just Christianity. As they are usually the least informed about their own religion and yet the most hard core about their "beliefs."

Again, you are making a HUGE leap from "people passed down" knowledge to "god handed down" knowledge.

1) If there is a God who created him? Did he always exist?
2) Why live in a capitalist/consumerist society when/if you believe in an afterlife that rewards altruistic behavior?
3) What miracles have you seen?
4) What do you derive from "knowing" there is a god?

[Furtherman]

Thats why I said historical account. I think its widely accepted that whomever sat down and wrote each book didnt have first hand account of everything but much was passed on through oral tradition.

The Bible is just one example and it takes from much of the oral tradition that was passed on about other religions from the Pagans to the Greeks to the Mesopotamians.



Well this is where again I tell you that you are just plain wrong.

There are literally hundreds of religions/tribes/oral traditions that describe fires from heavens, UFO's, and beings from "other worlds" visiting and passing on knowledge to humans. Have you never watched the history channel man?

I'm not claiming to be a groundbreaking scientist or great thinker but I would bet any amount of money that these people would tell you no one just "came up with these things on their own". All of modern science and mathematics has been built on the principles and theories that were presented to the world from the brains of people or persons or "gods" from the past.

Not to say this never happens but the people that do claim to have these visions that you speak of more than likely attribute these visions to a God.

It has been debated whether or not Pythagorean actually came up with his own theory or was just the guy who actually wrote it down and had it survive the sands of time.

You know, I think we're on the same page, but I am not just "plain wrong" in claiming that mankind made discoveries on its own. Even though I'm more inclined to believe that man learned some things from a higher civilizations either this world or another, rather than a god based on today's definition by religion who god is, I am still in the right to say that just as great discoveries are made every day - by man, there is no reason why those same great leaps of discovery could not have happened 5,000 years ago. Many ancient civilizations rival many of our modern civilizations in architectural structures, mathematics and even physics. Sure, they could have gotten help, but I give mankind a little more credit for making many discoveries on its own.

And please, "Have you never watched the history channel man?", is insulting. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you've never read many of my threads here and discussions I've tried to start.

[DarkHippie]

Back then? if any of the apostles or Jesus could write why is there NOTHING even second and third hand attributed to them?

I dont think so

I actually wrote a paper on this back in college . . .

the apostles believed that the end of the world was immenent, as in a year or two. Up until their death, they believed that the end of the world would be coming soon. The second generation of believers came to the conclusion that armageddon might not be so soon, so they started writing stuff down.

You are right in that None of the writers of the gospels were around at the time of Jesus. They are the second generation of christians, more influenced by Paul's idea of Jesus than Jesus himself (at least the gospels that were chosen to be canon).

[GregoryJoseph]

I actually wrote a paper on this back in college . . .

the apostles believed that the end of the world was immenent, as in a year or two. Up until their death, they believed that the end of the world would be coming soon.

How do you know?

[Crispy123]

You know, I think we're on the same page, but I am not just "plain wrong" in claiming that mankind made discoveries on its own. Even though I'm more inclined to believe that man learned some things from a higher civilizations either this world or another, rather than a god based on today's definition by religion who god is, I am still in the right to say that just as great discoveries are made every day - by man, there is no reason why those same great leaps of discovery could not have happened 5,000 years ago. Many ancient civilizations rival many of our modern civilizations in architectural structures, mathematics and even physics. Sure, they could have gotten help, but I give mankind a little more credit for making many discoveries on its own.

And please, "Have you never watched the history channel man?", is insulting. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you've never read many of my threads here and discussions I've tried to start.

The history channel thing was a joke. I got from what you said that man discovered and created everything on his own and that religion had nothing to do with it or at best negatively impacted it. I say that is wrong. Religion and the pursuit of why we are here and what happens when we are gone directly relates to where we are as a modern society.

My point is that the scientific method and religion both started before written language. Both have sound theories and principles and both have had errors that are proven wrong and reworked with new understandings. To put all of your faith in one over the other doesnt make sense to me.

oh and i saw and enjoyed district 9 as a direct result of a thread you started.

[Serpico1103]

My point is that the scientific method and religion both started before written language. Both have sound theories and principles and both have had errors that are proven wrong and reworked with new understandings. To put all of your faith in one over the other doesnt make sense to me.


The difference is that science is creating the "change", while religion is resisting the change and only "reworking with new understandings" when it is backed into a corner by modern beliefs or science.

[Crispy123]

The difference is that science is creating the "change", while religion is resisting the change and only "reworking with new understandings" when it is backed into a corner by modern beliefs or science.

Well heres a new candidate for my patented catchphrase, " youre just plain wrong".

Ever heard of Scientology? New religions are popping up all the time.

Ever heard of Martin Luther? Religions change and get reworked, not over night but it happens.

[Contra]

The history channel thing was a joke. I got from what you said that man discovered and created everything on his own and that religion had nothing to do with it or at best negatively impacted it. I say that is wrong. Religion and the pursuit of why we are here and what happens when we are gone directly relates to where we are as a modern society.

My point is that the scientific method and religion both started before written language. Both have sound theories and principles and both have had errors that are proven wrong and reworked with new understandings. To put all of your faith in one over the other doesnt make sense to me.

oh and i saw and enjoyed district 9 as a direct result of a thread you started.

You are right, both have theories and principles, but only one has proven facts. That's where the difference lies.

[Crispy123]

You are right, both have theories and principles, but only one has proven facts. That's where the difference lies.

Im pretty sure it has been proven that many of the kings and various peoples, battles, and regional conflicts in the Bible are accurate including the existence of Jesus of Galilee and Pontius Pilate based on other artifacts and texts.

[DarkHippie]

How do you know?

Lots and lots of research.

If interested, start with the books "the cult of the saints," and "christianising the roman empire"

[GregoryJoseph]

Lots and lots of research.

If interested, start with the books "the cult of the saints," and "christianising the roman empire"

Didn't you say something about the game of telephone a few pages back, and that writings from that era can't be accurate because they've been retold and translated so many times?

What makes you think those depictions of the apostles were accurate?

[Serpico1103]

Well heres a new candidate for my patented catchphrase, " youre just plain wrong".

Ever heard of Scientology? New religions are popping up all the time.

Ever heard of Martin Luther? Religions change and get reworked, not over night but it happens.

Where did I say religion doesn't change?

Scientology- I won't discuss because all I have heard is that it is nonsense involving aliens, volcanoes, nuclear weapons, and celebrities. Maybe I am wrong and it is the true path.

Martin Luther- He was ex-communicated because he wanted change to occur. So, I am not sure how this disproves my "religion is resistant to change" statement.

If you spent less time at failing to prove me wrong, and more time at explaining where your belief in a higher power is based, I might respect your opinion.

[Furtherman]

The history channel thing was a joke. I got from what you said that man discovered and created everything on his own and that religion had nothing to do with it or at best negatively impacted it. I say that is wrong. Religion and the pursuit of why we are here and what happens when we are gone directly relates to where we are as a modern society.

My point is that the scientific method and religion both started before written language. Both have sound theories and principles and both have had errors that are proven wrong and reworked with new understandings. To put all of your faith in one over the other doesnt make sense to me.

oh and i saw and enjoyed district 9 as a direct result of a thread you started.

Ok, I gotcha. I just feel it is better to put your faith in mankind, yourself, rather than a religion. Some of man's quests might have started because of religion in the past, but there is no need to start a quest today because of religion, at least in a scientific quest.

[GregoryJoseph]

I just feel it is better to put your faith in mankind, yourself, rather than a religion.

Don't you think that putting mankind on a pedestal and naming him the supreme power in the universe is a bit egotistical and narrow minded, scientifically speaking?

[DarkHippie]

Didn't you say something about the game of telephone a few pages back, and that writings from that era can't be accurate because they've been retold and translated so many times?

What makes you think those depictions of the apostles were accurate?

Well, if put that way, all history, science, and journalism should be ignored, since there are no first person accounts of anything.

But the difference would be that the bible is a singular source translated multiple times, with no external references. Scholarly research comes from multiple sources, kind of like triangularization.

[Furtherman]

Don't you think that putting mankind on a pedestal and naming him the supreme power in the universe is a bit egotistical and narrow minded, scientifically speaking?

I never claimed that, which would be nuts considering we're not even the supreme power on this planet.

[Furtherman]

Well, if put that way, all history, science, and journalism should be ignored, since there are no first person accounts of anything.

Oh I think Crazed and his first person account of one particular night in a cigar shop would disagree.

[GregoryJoseph]

Well, if put that way, all history, science, and journalism should be ignored, since there are no first person accounts of anything.

But the difference would be that the bible is a singular source translated multiple times, with no external references. Scholarly research comes from multiple sources, kind of like triangularization.

Says who?

[GregoryJoseph]

I never claimed that, which would be nuts considering we're not even the supreme power on this planet.

What do you feel is the supreme power on this planet?

[DarkHippie]

What do you feel is the supreme power on this planet?

Shazam

[DarkHippie]

Says who?

when it is translated, it is translated all at once. One source

[GregoryJoseph]

Well, if put that way, all history, science, and journalism should be ignored, since there are no first person accounts of anything.

You don't think historical, scientific and journalistic works are biased in any way?

[Furtherman]

What do you feel is the supreme power on this planet?

Bacteria.

Given enough time, it will eat us all.

No one can grasp the concept of supreme power, as we've never seen it. Such a thing may exist, but we're not qualified to give it a name, let alone give it human qualities.

[Serpico1103]

What do you feel is the supreme power on this planet?

Supreme power or being?

Supreme power would require criteria to determine what is a "power" and what is required to be supreme.

Supreme being, on the planet, would be humans. We, more than any other creature have the ability to shape our surroundings to our needs. Other animals are dependent on their environment or their ability to adapt to the new environment.
Of course, individually humans are very weak.

And, I think there is an argument that being an animal is a simpler life, absent stress, suicide, depression, etc.

[DarkHippie]

You don't think historical, scientific and journalistic works are biased in any way?

they can be, that's why proper research is done through many resources, and why all things should be taken with a healthy amount of skepticism. Yet, I trust in the research that I do.

[Contra]

Im pretty sure it has been proven that many of the kings and various peoples, battles, and regional conflicts in the Bible are accurate including the existence of Jesus of Galilee and Pontius Pilate based on other artifacts and texts.

What does any of that have to do with the exsistance of god?

I was speaking more to factual proof of seas parting, Jesus asending into heaven, an invisible man in the sky. You know, things like that.

[Coach_Mac]

Ok...I'm back and away we go....



The organization of the Bible and the history behind it is very interesting considering there are other gods besides "Yahweh" mentioned in the Bible, who wrote many of the books has not been conclusively figured out considering the Torah or Old Testament was written before Jesus and the New Testament was written 400 or so years after Jesus at the direction of a Roman Emporer (you know the romans, they killed Jesus) and the fact that several Testaments have been discarded and the Apostles themselves were in disagreement over the meaning behind Jesus's teachings.

To know that we as individuals are made up of millions of cells and DNA and that there are microscopic organizism in us, on us, and all around us and then make the statement that there is nothing out there greater than us is just as nutty to me as the good Coaches statements.

As for the first part, there are other gods mentioned in the Bible. It also says that there shall be no other gods before the one true God.

As for the New Testiment being written 400 years after Jesus' death...no. The majority of it was written between 45-65 A.D.

I believe God made man special, above all of the other creatures on this planet. That's something I didn't think I would have to argue. To say we are not equal with animals is something I thought even an athiest would get on board with. To me, that's just crazy talk.

Yes, how could I be so bold as to think you don't attend church? You've only said that you don't like religion, but just the teachings of the bible about 10 times in this thread.

God damn, you really are just another hypocritical, brainwashed religious nut aren't you? And now you teach this religion you "have a problem with" to children every week. You are totally right Serp, I don't know what I was thinking.

Ok, now I understand....you don't know what I mean by "religion." Let me explain, "religion" is something man made and is completely seperate from a relationship with God, or what you might call, being a "Christian." No, I do not teach "religion" (I dont teach children, I teach college kids), I teach about a personal relationship with God and how to get to know Him better. Religion is not church. Religion is something non Christians and misguided Christians like to talk about. I don't care if you're Baptist, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, whatever, "religion" never saved one person and nobody is going to heaven because they have "religion." The Christian church does not teach a single word of "religion."

As for being a hypocrit, that's the first thing anyone's said on here that's offended me. I have not said one thing hypocritical on this thread. I am not a hypocrit, but I am a sinner. Being as you now understand (or do you?) my view on religion, I don't think "religious nut" fits me well. How about "Jesus freak?"

This is wrong, The person who wrote Matthew was not the Matthew who paled around with Jesus and had adventures.

The disciples were illiterate as was Jesus, the stories of them were passed along as a oral tradition and were not copied down to any text until well after Jesus death

While possible that your"Matthew" got an education and learned to read and write after Jesus floated up to the sky it is not probable

It actuality the stories were copied down decades after they were all dead or had moved on to other craziness

Matthew did not write Matthew, Mark did not write Mark, Luke did not write Luke and John did not write John

I don't know what to tell you but you're wrong. Matthew did write Matthew, Mark wrote Mark, Luke wrote Luke and John wrote John. Matthew and John were one of the 12 disciples. Mark and Luke were not.

I guess you can make up anything you want about the apostles and Jesus being illiterate but that's not true either.


There is no higher power. There is no proof. Science is learning more and more about who we are and where we come from. However, unlike your nonsensical theory, they move further and further from a "higher power" theory to a "energy and matter" idea.

I dismiss all religions, not just Christianity. As they are usually the least informed about their own religion and yet the most hard core about their "beliefs."

Again, you are making a HUGE leap from "people passed down" knowledge to "god handed down" knowledge.

1) If there is a God who created him? Did he always exist?
2) Why live in a capitalist/consumerist society when/if you believe in an afterlife that rewards altruistic behavior?
3) What miracles have you seen?
4) What do you derive from "knowing" there is a god?


It's funny how non-Christians think that Christians are so stubborn in their beliefs but isn't that exactly what you are? Stubborn.

I'll try to answer these questions...

1) It is my belief that God has always existed. I don't feel like this is something humans are meant to comprehend, but He wouldn't be a Devine being if we could comprehend Him right?
2) I'm not sure I understand the relationship between the two? The society we have created is man made, not God made. But I wonder what you mean by "rewarding" altruistic behavior. Because the things we do on this earth are important but not the determining factor in our afterlife.
3) That's an interesting question to ask a true believer because to me, I can't go through a day without witnessing miricles. No, I havn't seen water turn into wine but I have seen the unbelievibly, unscientific world we live in. The way our bodies are put together, all things you attribute to chance can only be a result from God or at least some higher power. If you are looking for proof of God, why not look no further than sex? If we are here by chance and not created by God, would sex be strictly for procreation? And if it was strictly for procreation, why is it so pleasurable? I think you're nuts if you don't think sex is a gift from God!
4) Based on my beliefs, God died for me. Therefore, it is a joy of mine to live for Him.

[booster11373]

Ok...I'm back and away we go....



As for the first part, there are other gods mentioned in the Bible. It also says that there shall be no other gods before the one true God.

As for the New Testiment being written 400 years after Jesus' death...no. The majority of it was written between 45-65 A.D.

I believe God made man special, above all of the other creatures on this planet. That's something I didn't think I would have to argue. To say we are not equal with animals is something I thought even an athiest would get on board with. To me, that's just crazy talk.



Ok, now I understand....you don't know what I mean by "religion." Let me explain, "religion" is something man made and is completely seperate from a relationship with God, or what you might call, being a "Christian." No, I do not teach "religion" (I dont teach children, I teach college kids), I teach about a personal relationship with God and how to get to know Him better. Religion is not church. Religion is something non Christians and misguided Christians like to talk about. I don't care if you're Baptist, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, whatever, "religion" never saved one person and nobody is going to heaven because they have "religion." The Christian church does not teach a single word of "religion."

As for being a hypocrit, that's the first thing anyone's said on here that's offended me. I have not said one thing hypocritical on this thread. I am not a hypocrit, but I am a sinner. Being as you now understand (or do you?) my view on religion, I don't think "religious nut" fits me well. How about "Jesus freak?"



I don't know what to tell you but you're wrong. Matthew did write Matthew, Mark wrote Mark, Luke wrote Luke and John wrote John. Matthew and John were one of the 12 disciples. Mark and Luke were not.

I guess you can make up anything you want about the apostles and Jesus being illiterate but that's not true either.





It's funny how non-Christians think that Christians are so stubborn in their beliefs but isn't that exactly what you are? Stubborn.

I'll try to answer these questions...

1) It is my belief that God has always existed. I don't feel like this is something humans are meant to comprehend, but He wouldn't be a Devine being if we could comprehend Him right?
2) I'm not sure I understand the relationship between the two? The society we have created is man made, not God made. But I wonder what you mean by "rewarding" altruistic behavior. Because the things we do on this earth are important but not the determining factor in our afterlife.
3) That's an interesting question to ask a true believer because to me, I can't go through a day without witnessing miricles. No, I havn't seen water turn into wine but I have seen the unbelievibly, unscientific world we live in. The way our bodies are put together, all things you attribute to chance can only be a result from God or at least some higher power. If you are looking for proof of God, why not look no further than sex? If we are here by chance and not created by God, would sex be strictly for procreation? And if it was strictly for procreation, why is it so pleasurable? I think you're nuts if you don't think sex is a gift from God!
4) Based on my beliefs, God died for me. Therefore, it is a joy of mine to live for Him.

Just because you believe something does not make it true

[Serpico1103]

1) It is my belief that God has always existed. I don't feel like this is something humans are meant to comprehend, but He wouldn't be a Devine being if we could comprehend Him right?
2) I'm not sure I understand the relationship between the two? The society we have created is man made, not God made. But I wonder what you mean by "rewarding" altruistic behavior. Because the things we do on this earth are important but not the determining factor in our afterlife.
3) That's an interesting question to ask a true believer because to me, I can't go through a day without witnessing miricles. No, I havn't seen water turn into wine but I have seen the unbelievibly, unscientific world we live in. The way our bodies are put together, all things you attribute to chance can only be a result from God or at least some higher power. If you are looking for proof of God, why not look no further than sex? If we are here by chance and not created by God, would sex be strictly for procreation? And if it was strictly for procreation, why is it so pleasurable? I think you're nuts if you don't think sex is a gift from God!
4) Based on my beliefs, God died for me. Therefore, it is a joy of mine to live for Him.

1) Your answer is almost the : God is great. To be great you must exist. Therefore God exists "logic" proof. Weak.
2) What gets you into heaven other than how and what you do?
3) Because you don't understand something scientifically does not make it miracle. Why is sex pleasurable? Because otherwise we wouldn't do it. So, any species that finds sex unpleasurable quickly becomes extinct. Not a miracle, simple evolution.
4) God didn't die. He "always" existed. So, how is his "death" in any way a gesture that now requires your devotion? It is cute, childlike thinking. Jesus may have allowed himself to be crucified. But, if he went into heaven, how is that a sacrifice? Isn't heaven where you want to be?

Live your life. No one is watching from the clouds. If you are a good person, maybe you will have a good life. But, maybe you will be hit by a bus and die a painful death. Sorry. This is all there is. Scared?

[keithy_19]

This thread kind of amazes me. I enjoy seeing the back and forth. From people who are really steadfast in their beliefs and those who are looking at things from an analytical point of view.

The fact of the matter is, you can not disprove that there is no God. Just like you can't prove that there is.

To me, having belief in a higher being doesn't make me someone who is fearful or feeling the need to believe in something because I can't take the idea that when we die that's it.

In this particular thread, and it could be due to my already preconceived notions, it seems that those who believe that we're all that there is are really coming off as being cocky because they 'have the knowledge that others can't handle'.

[Contra]

Ok...I'm back and away we go....



As for the first part, there are other gods mentioned in the Bible. It also says that there shall be no other gods before the one true God.

As for the New Testiment being written 400 years after Jesus' death...no. The majority of it was written between 45-65 A.D.

I believe God made man special, above all of the other creatures on this planet. That's something I didn't think I would have to argue. To say we are not equal with animals is something I thought even an athiest would get on board with. To me, that's just crazy talk.



Ok, now I understand....you don't know what I mean by "religion." Let me explain, "religion" is something man made and is completely seperate from a relationship with God, or what you might call, being a "Christian." No, I do not teach "religion" (I dont teach children, I teach college kids), I teach about a personal relationship with God and how to get to know Him better. Religion is not church. Religion is something non Christians and misguided Christians like to talk about. I don't care if you're Baptist, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, whatever, "religion" never saved one person and nobody is going to heaven because they have "religion." The Christian church does not teach a single word of "religion."

As for being a hypocrit, that's the first thing anyone's said on here that's offended me. I have not said one thing hypocritical on this thread. I am not a hypocrit, but I am a sinner. Being as you now understand (or do you?) my view on religion, I don't think "religious nut" fits me well. How about "Jesus freak?"



I don't know what to tell you but you're wrong. Matthew did write Matthew, Mark wrote Mark, Luke wrote Luke and John wrote John. Matthew and John were one of the 12 disciples. Mark and Luke were not.

I guess you can make up anything you want about the apostles and Jesus being illiterate but that's not true either.





It's funny how non-Christians think that Christians are so stubborn in their beliefs but isn't that exactly what you are? Stubborn.

I'll try to answer these questions...

1) It is my belief that God has always existed. I don't feel like this is something humans are meant to comprehend, but He wouldn't be a Devine being if we could comprehend Him right?
2) I'm not sure I understand the relationship between the two? The society we have created is man made, not God made. But I wonder what you mean by "rewarding" altruistic behavior. Because the things we do on this earth are important but not the determining factor in our afterlife.
3) That's an interesting question to ask a true believer because to me, I can't go through a day without witnessing miricles. No, I havn't seen water turn into wine but I have seen the unbelievibly, unscientific world we live in. The way our bodies are put together, all things you attribute to chance can only be a result from God or at least some higher power. If you are looking for proof of God, why not look no further than sex? If we are here by chance and not created by God, would sex be strictly for procreation? And if it was strictly for procreation, why is it so pleasurable? I think you're nuts if you don't think sex is a gift from God!
4) Based on my beliefs, God died for me. Therefore, it is a joy of mine to live for Him.

Ok now that you explained I apologize for calling you a hypocrite. I didn't realize you just have no idea what you are talking about.

Churches aren't religion? Are you serious? Church is the house that religion built! How exactly do you define religion? Religion is going to church every Sunday and going through the (religious) traditions of listening to a sermon, eating a waffer, drinking some wine, and confessing your sins to a guy in a booth. Religion is needing a school to teach you about the bible instead of just reading it and forming your own opinions. If it were just a guy that gathered up some friends to read to out in a field I'd say otherwise, but as soon as you need to designate a place to do that and throw in the churches opinions about what the stories mean, along with all the other bull I stated above it becomes religion.

As far as when the bible was written, I thought it was common knowledge that the stories were passed orally for a few generations after the death of Jesus before they were written down. I honestly didn't even know it was a debate.
And the "pleasure" during sex is just the nerves that need to be stimulated being stimulated in order for you to ejaculate. The fact the our brains read it as pleasure is just a really nice bonus.

[PapaBear]

you can not disprove that there is no God
I'm trying to wrap my head around that one.

[HBox]

The fact of the matter is, you can not disprove that there is no God.

Confounded by your own double negative.

[Dude!]

Confounded by your own double negative.

actually, i think the confusion arises
because the sentence has a
triple-negative

[keithy_19]

I'm trying to wrap my head around that one.

I sat there and blankly looked at that sentence for a good 3 minutes trying to figure out if what I put made any sense.

I got tired of looking and hit submit.

What I meant was, you can't prove or disprove the existence of God.

That's much more better good.

I suck.

[PapaBear]

I suck.
No you don't not.

[keithy_19]

No you don't not.

:flush:
:lol:

[Dude!]

No you don't not.

The fact of the matter is,
you can not disprove
the he does not suck.

[keithy_19]

The fact of the matter is,
you can not disprove
the he does not suck.

It's all told in The Keith Doctrine. Revered and often misunderstood.

[HBox]

It's all told in The Keith Doctrine. Revered and often misunderstood.

And God said, don't let there not be light, and there wasn't not light.

[Coach_Mac]

Just because you believe something does not make it true

You're exactly right. And it works both ways.

1) Your answer is almost the : God is great. To be great you must exist. Therefore God exists "logic" proof. Weak. -
2) What gets you into heaven other than how and what you do?
3) Because you don't understand something scientifically does not make it miracle. Why is sex pleasurable? Because otherwise we wouldn't do it. So, any species that finds sex unpleasurable quickly becomes extinct. Not a miracle, simple evolution.
4) God didn't die. He "always" existed. So, how is his "death" in any way a gesture that now requires your devotion? It is cute, childlike thinking. Jesus may have allowed himself to be crucified. But, if he went into heaven, how is that a sacrifice? Isn't heaven where you want to be?

Live your life. No one is watching from the clouds. If you are a good person, maybe you will have a good life. But, maybe you will be hit by a bus and die a painful death. Sorry. This is all there is. Scared?

1) That's not what I said at all.
2) The only way to Heaven is by believing Jesus died on the cross for your sins and inviting Him to live in your heart.
3) No, we would do it for procreation...you made my point.
4) Excuse me, I meant to say Jesus.

Am I scared? Not even a little bit. I am 100% confident of where I'll go when I die. Can you say that?

Ok now that you explained I apologize for calling you a hypocrite. I didn't realize you just have no idea what you are talking about.

Churches aren't religion? Are you serious? Church is the house that religion built! How exactly do you define religion? Religion is going to church every Sunday and going through the (religious) traditions of listening to a sermon, eating a waffer, drinking some wine, and confessing your sins to a guy in a booth. Religion is needing a school to teach you about the bible instead of just reading it and forming your own opinions. If it were just a guy that gathered up some friends to read to out in a field I'd say otherwise, but as soon as you need to designate a place to do that and throw in the churches opinions about what the stories mean, along with all the other bull I stated above it becomes religion.

As far as when the bible was written, I thought it was common knowledge that the stories were passed orally for a few generations after the death of Jesus before they were written down. I honestly didn't even know it was a debate.
And the "pleasure" during sex is just the nerves that need to be stimulated being stimulated in order for you to ejaculate. The fact the our brains read it as pleasure is just a really nice bonus.


THANK YOU! THAT IS RELIGION. Everything I put in [B]bold.[B] And that is NOT what being a Christian is and that is NOT what gets you to heaven. Religion is rituals. Again, I am talking about having a relationship. In your attemp to disprove and mock me, you havn't gotten it yet!

And no, it's not common knowledge. It's more common knowledge the way I said it. And you are also wrong about sex. Do dogs think sex is pleasurable? No, they hump because its instilled in them to do so.

[Contra]

You're exactly right. And it works both ways.



1) That's not what I said at all.
2) The only way to Heaven is by believing Jesus died on the cross for your sins and inviting Him to live in your heart.
3) No, we would do it for procreation...you made my point.
4) Excuse me, I meant to say Jesus.

Am I scared? Not even a little bit. I am 100% confident of where I'll go when I die. Can you say that?




THANK YOU! THAT IS RELIGION. Everything I put in [B]bold.[B] And that is NOT what being a Christian is and that is NOT what gets you to heaven. Religion is rituals. Again, I am talking about having a relationship. In your attemp to disprove and mock me, you havn't gotten it yet!

And no, it's not common knowledge. It's more common knowledge the way I said it. And you are also wrong about sex. Do dogs think sex is pleasurable? No, they hump because its instilled in them to do so.

Wow, so you agree with what I said, yet you still go to church every Sunday and teach Sunday school. I take it back, you are a hypocrite. I think my attempt to disprove and mock you went just fine with your help.
Also I'd have to disagree about the common knowledge, or maybe we just live in different places. I never ever heard in my lifetime that the stories were written during or immediately following the life of Jesus. Not in church, not in Sunday school, never, until this thread.
You are right about dogs though. The thing is every living thing on the planet has the same instinct, to reproduce or replicate. As I said before, the pleasure is a bonus, one that dogs share I might add.

[keithy_19]

And you are also wrong about sex. Do dogs think sex is pleasurable? No, they hump because its instilled in them to do so.

Dolphins fuck for fun.