Oklahoma City Bombing Conspiracy ??

[JimBeam]

I'm not a conspiracy nut by any means but this is interesting.

4 independent cameras all going out or needing their recordings to be changed at the same time ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_oklahoma_bombing_video

[Dude!]

i guarantee you that the road
will lead to Janet Reno

[GvacNoMore]

From the first failed World Trade Center attack to Mogadishu to The US Embassy bombings in Africa to the USS Cole to Waco...

There were so many things mishandled by the Clinton Administration it's deplorable.

But hey, internet stocks were falsely pumped up so the economy was booming and everyone thought life was just great!

[dino_electropolis]

From the first failed World Trade Center attack to Mogadishu to The US Embassy bombings in Africa to the USS Cole to Waco...

There were so many things mishandled by the Clinton Administration it's deplorable.

But hey, internet stocks were falsely pumped up so the economy was booming and everyone thought life was just great!

Yeah......those were some good times.

[dino_electropolis]

Thinking about these videos....do you think the redacted portions are somewhere, in some super secure location, or are they viewed, destroyed and left as that?

Keepin the videos, to me, ensures that at some time they will ultimately be released, whether intentionally or not.

What purpose would it serve to keep them? I doubt it is because these "officials" are proud historians, true to the truth, and blah blah.

Makes me think they are probably just destroyed.

[Chigworthy]

Obviously take this with a grain of salt:

I remember hearing Art Bell interview a Federal investigator who worked the OK City bombing. She said that McVeigh & Co were staying in a hotel the week leading up to the bombing, and that hotel employees noticed several Arabian gentleman staying there as well. The box van that was used was parked there, and they saw the Arabs involved somehow with the van. They investigated the Arabs and found that one of them had disappeared shortly before 9/11, and that he had been working at Logan International.

If true, it makes you wonder who McVeigh was in bed with.

[Tall_James]

If true, it makes you wonder who McVeigh was in bed with.

Hopefully its Satan and he's getting railed from behind for eternity with a baseball bat with a nail in it.

[Chigworthy]

Hopefully its Satan and he's getting railed from behind for eternity with a baseball bat with a nail in it.

I've got good info that the baseball bat is wrapped in rusty razorwire and dipped in hep-C juice.

[TheMojoPin]

I've got good info that the baseball bat is wrapped in rusty razorwire and dipped in hep-C juice.

It's more than a little creepy how much of McVeigh's rhetoric is being parroted in the mainstream today:

Taxes are a joke. Regardless of what a political candidate "promises," they will increase. More taxes are always the answer to government mismanagement. They mess up. We suffer. Taxes are reaching cataclysmic levels, with no slowdown in sight ... Is a Civil War Imminent? Do we have to shed blood to reform the current system? I hope it doesn't come to that. But it might.

The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.

Those who betray or subvert the Constitution are guilty of sedition and/or treason, are domestic enemies and should and will be punished accordingly.

It also stands to reason that anyone who sympathizes with the enemy or gives aid or comfort to said enemy is likewise guilty. I have sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic and I will. And I will because not only did I swear to, but I believe in what it stands for in every bit of my heart, soul and being.

I know in my heart that I am right in my struggle, Steve. I have come to peace with myself, my God and my cause. Blood will flow in the streets, Steve. Good vs. Evil. Free Men vs. Socialist Wannabe Slaves. Pray it is not your blood, my friend.

[keithy_19]

Obviously take this with a grain of salt:

I remember hearing Art Bell interview a Federal investigator who worked the OK City bombing. She said that McVeigh & Co were staying in a hotel the week leading up to the bombing, and that hotel employees noticed several Arabian gentleman staying there as well. The box van that was used was parked there, and they saw the Arabs involved somehow with the van. They investigated the Arabs and found that one of them had disappeared shortly before 9/11, and that he had been working at Logan International.

If true, it makes you wonder who McVeigh was in bed with.

You should read '1000 Years For Revenge: International Terrorism and the FBI' by Peter Lance. It's a real interesting look at terrorism and the connections between various people who commit the acts.

Abdul Hakim Murad took credit for the bombing in the name of Ramzi Yousef's Liberation Army. Apparently, Yousef taught McVeigh and Nichols how to build the bomb they used. Nichols and Yousef both took trips to the Phillipines in 1994-95.

Were McVeigh and Nichols part of Al Quaeda or another Muslim terrorist group? I'm guessing not, but they definately were connected. And considering Yousef helped move along the Oklahoma City bombing, it doesn't make doubt that he had people who worked on both of the attacks.

[TheMojoPin]

You should read '1000 Years For Revenge: International Terrorism and the FBI' by Peter Lance. It's a real interesting look at terrorism and the connections between various people who commit the acts.

Abdul Hakim Murad took credit for the bombing in the name of Ramzi Yousef's Liberation Army. Apparently, Yousef taught McVeigh and Nichols how to build the bomb they used. Nichols and Yousef both took trips to the Phillipines in 1994-95.

Were McVeigh and Nichols part of Al Quaeda or another Muslim terrorist group? I'm guessing not, but they definately were connected. And considering Yousef helped move along the Oklahoma City bombing, it doesn't make doubt that he had people who worked on both of the attacks.

You say all this as if it's proven.

[Dude!]

You should read '1000 Years For Revenge: International Terrorism and the FBI' by Peter Lance. It's a real interesting look at terrorism and the connections between various people who commit the acts.

Abdul Hakim Murad took credit for the bombing in the name of Ramzi Yousef's Liberation Army. Apparently, Yousef taught McVeigh and Nichols how to build the bomb they used. Nichols and Yousef both took trips to the Phillipines in 1994-95.

Were McVeigh and Nichols part of Al Quaeda or another Muslim terrorist group? I'm guessing not, but they definately were connected. And considering Yousef helped move along the Oklahoma City bombing, it doesn't make doubt that he had people who worked on both of the attacks.

i would like to know
what Obama was up to
in the days leading up to the
OK City bombing

i think that is being covered up too

[keithy_19]

You say all this as if it's proven.

It's circumstantial evidence. Edwin Angeles, the former leader of the Abu Sayyaf terror group swore to police that Nichols met Yousef in the Phillipines. Nichols was none as "The Farmer".

[keithy_19]

For the record, I don't think there was a government conspiracy involving the Oklahoma City bombing. My statements were just explaining how it is very possible that Middle Eastern based terror groups worked with McVeigh and Nichols.

[epo]

From the first failed World Trade Center attack to Mogadishu to The US Embassy bombings in Africa to the USS Cole to Waco...

There were so many things mishandled by the Clinton Administration it's deplorable.

But hey, internet stocks were falsely pumped up so the economy was booming and everyone thought life was just great!

It must kill you that Art Bell isn't on the radio anymore to tell you how to think about politics.

[TheMojoPin]

For the record, I don't think there was a government conspiracy involving the Oklahoma City bombing. My statements were just explaining how it is very possible that Middle Eastern based terror groups worked with McVeigh and Nichols.

Sure, but it doesn't make much sense as to why that would be covered up.

[sr71blackbird]

I would assume that there would have had to have been other security cameras recording at that time. In banks or stores or some place, right? Was every camera location checked out and found to be blank at that time? If so, something is fishy. But I'm thinking that the person who started this investigation also has an axe to grind too.

[keithy_19]

Sure, but it doesn't make much sense as to why that would be covered up.

The only thing that I could think of was that the FBI would want to cover up the incompetence, but I really doubt that this is the case.

[TheMojoPin]

The only thing that I could think of was that the FBI would want to cover up the incompetence, but I really doubt that this is the case.

No, you'd actually be on the right path with that line of thought. Most of the "coverups" that conspiracy theorists harp on are attempts by people to cover their own asses after everything goes all SNAFU. If someone did actually edit the footage on the tapes before the bomb went off it's likely for reasons along those lines.

[JimBeam]

Yeah as much as it would be interesting to see what kinda conspiracy is at work here nothing comes to mind.

Framing McVeigh and Nichols ?

That doesn't make sense.

Gov't involvement ?

For what reason.

But still there is an opening for some doubt.

[epo]

If anyone thinks organizations, much less our government, have the ability to cover-up something that large...they are nothing short of insane.

[JimBeam]

I would think that something like this could be covered up much more easily than 9/11.

[west milly Tom]

It's more than a little creepy how much of McVeigh's rhetoric is being parroted in the mainstream today:



Comparing concerned citizens to terrorists is wrong. The two are nothing alike, except in your twisted mind. How would it go over if I compared the common rhetoric of your ilk to trotsky. Eat a dick budday.

[KnoxHarrington]

I think that OKC conspiracy theories have a motivation similar to the motivation for a lot of the JFK conspiracy theories: it's just too scary to think that a couple of scumbags could buy a shitload of fertilizer and some kerosene, rent a truck, and do something like this. Just like it's too scary to think that some lone nutbar with a rifle he ordered from a magazine could shoot the President.

But we do live in a world where both things are entirely possible. No conspiracy needed: it can happen.

[EliSnow]

Comparing concerned citizens to terrorists is wrong. The two are nothing alike, except in your twisted mind. How would it go over if I compared the common rhetoric of your ilk to trotsky. Eat a dick budday.

Nothing alike? If they are saynig the same things, how can you say they are nothing alike? Obviously they are somewhat alike, but not completely alike since they are not committing terrorist acts.

Mojo's not saying that everyone stating those things will kills kids. He's just making the point that the rhetoric behind McViegh is similar to what others are saying.

And as for comparing democrat's rhetoric to trotsky, fuck, it's been done for years now . People are saying that Obama is going to create a new USSR.

[Furtherman]

Comparing concerned citizens to terrorists is wrong. The two are nothing alike, except in your twisted mind. How would it go over if I compared the common rhetoric of your ilk to trotsky. Eat a dick budday.

McVeigh was a concerned citizen?

[TheMojoPin]

Comparing concerned citizens to terrorists is wrong. The two are nothing alike, except in your twisted mind. How would it go over if I compared the common rhetoric of your ilk to trotsky. Eat a dick budday.

Pretty good since Trotsky was awesome.

I don't see why you feel the need to defend so passionately the more extreme anti-Obama/Democrat rhetoric since it clearly doesn't define everyone who is opposed to them or some of the issues they're pushing for.

[Furtherman]

I don't see why you feel the need to defend so passionately the more extreme anti-Obama/Democrat rhetoric since it clearly doesn't define everyone who is opposed to them or some of the issues they're pushing for.

But that's what conservative talk teaches you, and it just ends up, as you mentioned before, "parroted".

[TheMojoPin]

I just like his panicked scrample to find someone "evil" on the Left comparable to McVeigh and he settled on Trotsky, like some kind of McCarthy-era cartoon.

[Furtherman]

I just like his panicked scrample to find someone "evil" on the Left comparable to McVeigh and he settled on Trotsky, like some kind of McCarthy-era cartoon.

It wasn't panicked at all... a quick search of "rhetoric of your ilk to trotsky" gives you all kind of far right fear mongering sites and pundits. It's an index card answer, with no facts to support, which again, is the playbook of conservative radio and TV.

[EliSnow]

I just like his panicked scrample to find someone "evil" on the Left comparable to McVeigh and he settled on Trotsky, like some kind of McCarthy-era cartoon.

Well, unless I'm missing something, we haven't had many far left terrorist organizations or people commit terrorist acts that "rival" McViegh or extreme Muslims.

Currently, we have some "eco-terrorists" but they generally don't kill people (I don't think). I believe there were a bunch of socialist/communist terrorist groups in 1970's, but they primarily were located in Europe, I think, includig the Baader Meinhof group, which I only remember because Robert Ludlum mentioned them in almost every book he wrote. There were also some in the US, now that I recall more, that did lead to some deaths here and there.

That's not to say that extreme left is less likely to be as violent as the extreme right. Just where we are now.

[west milly Tom]

Again you say panicked, parroted, its all the same from you all. You compared terrorist baby killers to concerned citizens. And again ill repeat I don't listen to conservativ talk radio with the only exception being Levin because he is a constitutional lawyer.
I'm not defending anti-Obama anything. Your comparison of terrorists to citizens who are concerned about being overtaxed and underrepresented is appalling no matter what your butt-buddies say. Your analogy is clear as day and it stinks.

[west milly Tom]

If I had the ability to mod quote I'd make yours "Trotsky was awesome".

I'd like to nominate myself for mod of the politics forum. All in favor? Lol.

[EliSnow]

Again you say panicked, parroted, its all the same from you all. You compared terrorist baby killers to concerned citizens. And again ill repeat I don't listen to conservativ talk radio with the only exception being Levin because he is a constitutional lawyer.
I'm not defending anti-Obama anything. Your comparison of terrorists to citizens who are concerned about being overtaxed and underrepresented is appalling no matter what your butt-buddies say. Your analogy is clear as day and it stinks.

If your "concerned citizens" are repeating the same thoughts as McVeigh, his point is not "appalling." It means that they do share something.

He was talking about how some far right talking points mirror what McVeigh's points were.

It's a valid point, and worthy of concern. And he didn't call these people baby-killers you imply. Just by saying that McVeigh is like other people, doesn't mean you're calling those people baby-killers.

The fact that you are unable to think about this issue without knee-jerk accusations about the point Mojo is saying or calling people butt buddies is ridiculous.

[Furtherman]

Again you say panicked, parroted, its all the same from you all. You compared terrorist baby killers to concerned citizens. And again ill repeat I don't listen to conservativ talk radio with the only exception being Levin because he is a constitutional lawyer.
I'm not defending anti-Obama anything. Your comparison of terrorists to citizens who are concerned about being overtaxed and underrepresented is appalling no matter what your butt-buddies say. Your analogy is clear as day and it stinks.

I'm sorry... where did he, or anyone else, compare terrorist baby killers to concerned citizens?

And if there is anything that is "all the same", it's the argument about being "overtaxed and underrepresented" lies being spread by pundits who are simply doing it because the other party won, and the fact that they can sell higher air-time rates because so many people like to hear those opinions, whereas it is facts that are being underrepresented.

He was talking about how some far right talking points mirror what McVeigh's points were.

It's a valid point, and worthy of concern.

Very worthy.

[EliSnow]

I'm sorry... where did he, or anyone else, compare terrorist baby killers to concerned citizens?

Apparently, if you state that a terrorist has anything in common with others, you are stating that those others are the exact same as the terrorist.

Which explains the hatred for all Muslims. They share a religion with terrorist, so they are all the same.

[Furtherman]

Apparently, if you state that a terrorist has anything in common with others, you are stating that those others are the exact same as the terrorist.

Which explains the hatred for all Muslims. They share a religion with terrorist, so they are all the same.

Ooooh. Gotcha. Now that's an analogy as clear as day.

God damn manure lovin' baby killers.

[west milly Tom]

If your "concerned citizens" are repeating the same thoughts as McVeigh, his point is not "appalling." It means that they do share something.

He was talking about how some far right talking points mirror what McVeigh's points were.

It's a valid point, and worthy of concern. And he didn't call these people baby-killers you imply. Just by saying that McVeigh is like other people, doesn't mean you're calling those people baby-killers.

The fact that you are unable to think about this issue without knee-jerk accusations about the point Mojo is saying or calling people butt buddies is ridiculous.


Why was the comparison even drawn? The fact remains that one was drawn to paint anyone anti-obama as having something in common with terrorists. If you missed the implied conclusion its because your choosing to. And I calls em likes I sees em.




Also quit trying to paint me as an anti-muslim, you're taking a page right out of the predictable Reid playbook. Eck.

[angrymissy]

The comparison was drawn because a lot of the anti-Obama protesters are using the EXACT same phrases that McVeigh did.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcveigh/t-shirt.jpg

this is the guy w/ the gun at the Obama rally.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/politics/2009/08/12/william_kostric/story.jpg

[EliSnow]

Why was the comparison even drawn? The fact remains that one was drawn to paint anyone anti-obama as having something in common with terrorists. If you missed the implied conclusion its because your choosing to. And I calls em likes I sees em.


You're inferring the conclusion you want. And it was not drawn to paint anyone anti-Obama as being in common with terrorists.

He pointed out that there are some far right pundits who are saying what McVeigh did. He didn't say everyone opposing Obama. You inferred that conclusion.

When McVeigh said what he said, people were saying he was a wacko, and distanced himself from him. Now some people are saying what he did, and others are following along without anythought.

Also, I didn't say that you hated all Muslims. I was saying that the way you were interpeting Mojo's points and your resposes shared a train of logic similar to those who hate all Muslims.

[west milly Tom]

The comparison was drawn because a lot of the anti-Obama protesters are using the EXACT same phrases that McVeigh did.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcveigh/t-shirt.jpg

this is the guy w/ the gun at the Obama rally.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/politics/2009/08/12/william_kostric/story.jpg


You're right anti-big government believers are nuts, a bunch of psychos. You are doing the same thing as what you accuse the right of doing. Judging the mass by what you see on the fringe. Meh.

[TheMojoPin]

The comparison was drawn because unfortunately we've seen eerily similar extremist rhetoric embraced by more "mainstream" politicians, citizens and media outlets in the wake of Obama's election. No, that of course does not mean that all or most opposition to him is along these lines, but it is disconcerting how prescient many of McVeigh's comments are when compared to some of people who are being welcomed, or at least tolerated by, the political and media mainstream simply because they're opposed to Obama and the Democrats. It's pretty difficult to say that the quotes I posted don't very closely resemble some of the more angry and excessively vitriolic rhetoric we're seeing some people spouting and also being accepted as something no longer just on the extremist fringe.

[angrymissy]

You're right anti-big government believers are nuts, a bunch of psychos. You are doing the same thing as what you accuse the right of doing. Judging the mass by what you see on the fringe. Meh.

No, I'm judging the fringe and saying the fringe are saying some scary shit.

[west milly Tom]

The comparison was drawn because unfortunately we've seen eerily similar extremist rhetoric embraced by more "mainstream" politicians, citizens and media outlets in the wake of Obama's election. No, that of course does not mean that all or most opposition to him is along these lines, but it is disconcerting how prescient many of McVeigh's comments are when compared to some of people who are being welcomed, or at least tolerated by, the political and media mainstream simply because they're opposed to Obama and the Democrats. It's pretty difficult to say that the quotes I posted don't very closely resemble some of the more angry and excessively vitriolic rhetoric we're seeing some people spouting and also being accepted as something no longer just on the extremist fringe.


What mainstream are you talking about? ABC, CBS, and NBC were all clearly in the tank FOR Obama. Check out the numbers on positive vs negative Obama stories then do the same for Palin. SNL even had a now famous sketch about it. Lol mainstream.

[TheMojoPin]

Why was the comparison even drawn? The fact remains that one was drawn to paint anyone anti-obama as having something in common with terrorists. If you missed the implied conclusion its because your choosing to. And I calls em likes I sees em.

Nowhere did I paint "anyone anti-Obama" as anything. It should be clear to anyone with a little common sense that my comments don't refer to everyone opposed to him or Democratic policies and politicians.

I really don't think you're obtuse enough to have not seen the more virulent and ugly rhetoric that some of the people in these movements are spouting being uncomfortably pushed or accepted into the spotlight.

[Crispy123]

What mainstream are you talking about? ABC, CBS, and NBC were all clearly in the tank FOR Obama. Check out the numbers on positive vs negative Obama stories then do the same for Palin. SNL even had a now famous sketch about it. Lol mainstream.

what positive story can you do on the brain dead chick with the retarded uterus? She quit before handing Alaska to the Russians?

[west milly Tom]

No, I'm judging the fringe and saying the fringe are saying some scary shit.



Where was the concern when the fringe was calling our soldiers, what was the term, murderers or Bush Hitler on the floor of the House?

[west milly Tom]

what positive story can you do on the brain dead chick with the retarded uterus? She quit before handing Alaska to the Russians?



Exactly. Thanks budday.

[TheMojoPin]

What mainstream are you talking about? ABC, CBS, and NBC were all clearly in the tank FOR Obama. Check out the numbers on positive vs negative Obama stories then do the same for Palin. SNL even had a now famous sketch about it. Lol mainstream.

"Mainstream" in terms of some major Republican politicians endorsing some of the extremist rhetoric and parroting it themselves. Mainstream in terms of outlets like Fox News and radio shows like Beck's and Hannity's and Limbaugh's which are doing the same thing. They're cherrypicking extremist rhetoric and wholeheartedly endorsing it and reapting it. Even the other news outlets you listed are doing little to nothing to respond to the extremist rhetoric. It's out there front and center and it's tarring the people who don't endorse it but tolerate it and it's dangerous.

[Crispy123]

Exactly. Thanks budday.

yep thats how many I came up with too.

[TheMojoPin]

Where was the concern when the fringe was calling our soldiers, what was the term, murderers or Bush Hitler on the floor of the House?

Because it stayed on the extremist fringe. It was never actively endorsed by a significant number of major politcians or mainstream media outlets and it would have been ridiculous if it had been.

[west milly Tom]

Nowhere did I paint "anyone anti-Obama" as anything. It should be clear to anyone with a little common sense that my comments don't refer to everyone opposed to him or Democratic policies and politicians.

I really don't think you're obtuse enough to have not seen the more virulent and ugly rhetoric that some of the people in these movements are spouting being uncomfortably pushed or accepted into the spotlight.

Let me ask you then, what rhetoric concerns you most and what mainstream sources are advancing it?

[Dude!]

"Mainstream" in terms of some major Republican politicians endorsing some of the extremist rhetoric and parroting it themselves. Mainstream in terms of outlets like Fox News and radio shows like Beck's and Hannity's and Limbaugh's which are doing the same thing. They're cherrypicking extremist rhetoric and wholeheartedly endorsing it and reapting it. Even the other news outlets you listed are doing little to nothing to respond to the extremist rhetoric. It's out there front and center and it's tarring the people who don't endorse it but tolerate it and it's dangerous.

can you give just one example
of a 'major republican politician'
"endorsing some of the extremist rhetoric and parroting it themselves"

[west milly Tom]

Because it stayed on the extremist fringe. It was never actively endorsed by a significant number of major politcians or mainstream media outlets and it would have been ridiculous if it had been.


So Harry Reid and Pelosi aren't mainstream? They're fringe?

[Crispy123]

can you give just one example
of a 'major republican politician'
"endorsing some of the extremist rhetoric and parroting it themselves"

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[underdog]

So Harry Reid and Pelosi aren't mainstream? They're fringe?

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi called soldiers murderers?

[west milly Tom]

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi called soldiers murderers?


Yes. Reid did in session.

[TheMojoPin]

Let me ask you then, what rhetoric concerns you most and what mainstream sources are advancing it?

What concerns me the most is the rhetoric actively advocating violence and revolution. What gets cherrypicked and spun from that are the alarmist pundits who continually present the current administration (and really Democrats as a whole) as working some kind of socialist or communist plot to overthrow America and strip us of all our rights and blah-blah-blah and how it all "must be stopped" and how people "shouldn't take it anymore" in a context that paints it all like some kind of emergency situation where desperate and urgent action needs to be taken. All of that stuff colliding together as it is is bad, bad news and it's overshadowing the people who are just normally opposed to what they see as "big government" and simply want to make their voices heard through the political process and debate and protest. This is creating an atmosphere that is drawing the extremists out from the fringe, and that's not a good thing.

[EliSnow]

Yes. Reid did in session.

If true, and I'm not saying it is, why did you throw in Nancy Pelosi for the same thing?

[TheMojoPin]

Yes. Reid did in session.

When?

[EliSnow]

What concerns me the most is the rhetoric actively advocating violence and revolution. What gets cherrypicked and spun from that are the alarmist pundits who continually present the current administration (and really Democrats as a whole) as working some kind of socialist or communist plot to overthrow America and strip us of all our rights and blah-blah-blah and how it all "must be stopped" and how people "shouldn't take it anymore" in a context that paints it all like some kind of emergency situation where desperate and urgent action needs to be taken. All of that stuff colliding together as it is is bad, bad news and it's overshadowing the people who are just normally opposed to what they see as "big government" and simply want to make their voices heard through the political process and debate and protest. This is creating an atmosphere that is drawing the extremists out from the fringe, and that's not a good thing.

As one example:


http://ebooks-imgs.connect.com/ebooks/product/400/000/000/000/000/048/287/400000000000000048287_s4.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

can you give just one example
of a 'major republican politician'
"endorsing some of the extremist rhetoric and parroting it themselves"

I can give you an example from just this past weekend: (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/29/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5350756.shtml)

In a speech Saturday before the How to Take Back America conference, Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) delivered a barn burner speech replete with inflammatory swipes at the president. At one point, the Arizona Republican demanded that Obama release his birth certificate to his constitutionally eligibility to hold office. The bluntest charge, however, centered on the president's position on abortion, which the congressman derided as "insane" and godless.


"Obama's first act as president of any consequence, in the middle of a financial meltdown, was to send taxpayers' money overseas to pay for the killing of unborn children in other countries," said Frank. "Now, I got to tell you, if a president will do that, there's almost nothing that you should be surprised at after that. We shouldn't be shocked that he does all these other insane things. A president that has lost his way that badly, that has no ability to see the image of God in these little fellow human beings, if he can't do that right, then he has no place in any station of government and we need to realize that he is an enemy of humanity."

[angrymissy]

Where was the concern when the fringe was calling our soldiers, what was the term, murderers or Bush Hitler on the floor of the House?

I think they're idiots too and they were called out then as well... but you also didn't have "news" people agreeing with them on the air and throwing support behind them.

[angrymissy]

Yes. Reid did in session.

I can't find reference to this anywhere, you got a link?

[Crispy123]

I can't find reference to this anywhere, you got a link?

uh oh. well thats the last we'll see of WMT in this thread.

[EliSnow]

I can give you an example from just this past weekend: (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/29/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5350756.shtml)

Calling a sitting President an "enemy of humanity" is ridiculous.

[west milly Tom]

I can't find reference to this anywhere, you got a link?



I'm looking now. I'm going to try and find the sound bite first. If not ill post it from my home pc.


Eli, the Pelosi reference was because of her calling attendees of town hall meet across thw country Nazis. I recall her making a reference to Chaney as well but I can't find a link to the latter.

[angrymissy]

She didn't call them nazis.

PELOSI: I think they’re Astroturf; you be the judge. They’re carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care.

[west milly Tom]

Calling a sitting President an "enemy of humanity" is ridiculous.



Agreed. I think he's steering the ship in the wrong direction and weakening us intentionally to enlarge the central government. I do believe however that he is doing what he thinks is best for America.

[angrymissy]

Calling a sitting President an "enemy of humanity" is ridiculous.

Scariest face ever!

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2009/09/29/image5350754x.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

Agreed. I think he's steering the ship in the wrong direction and weakening us intentionally to enlarge the central government. I do believe however that he is doing what he thinks is best for America.

Why would anyone think that "weakening us intentionally" is what's best for the country?

[west milly Tom]

She didn't call them nazis.

PELOSI: I think they’re Astroturf; you be the judge. They’re carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care.

Carrying swastikas...you're mincing. Also astroturf is an insult. She was implying the grass roots movement was fake essentially calling average citizens liars. That one had a resounding backlash.

[underdog]

Yes. Reid did in session.

I don't see it anywhere. I saw an announcer say that a soldier would murder Reid and Pelosi, but zero mention of Reid calling the soldiers murderers.

[west milly Tom]

Why would anyone think that "weakening us intentionally" is what's best for the country?



Because what he sees as growing the governmental responsibility I see as weakening citizens rights. He's doing it intentionally.

[underdog]

Carrying swastikas...you're mincing. Also astroturf is an insult. She was implying the grass roots movement was fake essentially calling average citizens liars. That one had a resounding backlash.

Is it a grass roots movement if its started by large corporations?

and she's right.

[Furtherman]

Eli, the Pelosi reference was because of her calling attendees of town hall meet across thw country Nazis. I recall her making a reference to Chaney as well but I can't find a link to the latter.

She didn't call them nazis.

PELOSI: I think they’re Astroturf; you be the judge. They’re carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care.

Nor was she talking about the attendees. She was talking about the protesters interrupting the meetings with silly nazi, communist and socialist propaganda. They deserve every criticism heaped upon them. They're not concerned citizens, they're uneducated rubes.

[EliSnow]

Carrying swastikas...you're mincing. Also astroturf is an insult. She was implying the grass roots movement was fake essentially calling average citizens liars. That one had a resounding backlash.

That's not calling them Nazis. She's essentially making the point you are.

I believe some people did have signs with swastikas, to assert that Obama was like the Nazis. Again, that's a ridiculous statement.

[west milly Tom]

Is it a grass roots movement if its started by large corporations?

and she's right.
It wasn't and she isn't. The masses at those meetings were citizens. The attempt to skew that has already failed. That talking point is over.

[EliSnow]

Because what he sees as growing the governmental responsibility I see as weakening citizens rights. He's doing it intentionally.

He's not weakening the county intentionally then.

He taking actions intentionally that you believe will weaken us.

That's not the same thing as weakening us intentionally.

[TheMojoPin]

Carrying swastikas...you're mincing. Also astroturf is an insult. She was implying the grass roots movement was fake essentially calling average citizens liars. That one had a resounding backlash.

"Mincing?" People were showing up left and right to some the meetings (though thankfully usually stayed outside of them or were kept out) with signs and banners and stickers and such equating the Left and Obama and the Democrats with Nazis.

You're also hung up on this whole "average citizen" or "concerned citizen" thing. The people screaming and going apeshit in the meetings typically weren't part of the "concerned citizen" majority you want them to be a part of. The freakouts occured at a very small number of the town hall sessions. They actually DON'T represent the "concerned citizens" you're so worried about since those people showed up to their meetings and actually interacted and had their voices heard like reasonable adults instead of throwing a temper tantrum. Y'know, the boring stuff that doesn't make "good" news.

[Furtherman]

She was implying the protesters was fake essentially calling average citizens liars.

Fixed.

Those people had no idea what they were protesting. Socialism? Nazism? Communism? There is no common sense there, just a hatred of "the other guy won and we lost", so they're acting out their displeasure, while also highlighting their ignorance of following leaders who had given them the suggestion to do so - which isn't grassroots - it was yelling fire in a crowded theater.

[EliSnow]

Where was the concern when the fringe was calling our soldiers, what was the term, murderers or Bush Hitler on the floor of the House?

So Harry Reid and Pelosi aren't mainstream? They're fringe?

Yes. Reid did in session.

I'm looking now. I'm going to try and find the sound bite first. If not ill post it from my home pc.


Eli, the Pelosi reference was because of her calling attendees of town hall meet across thw country Nazis. I recall her making a reference to Chaney as well but I can't find a link to the latter.

And I still see nothing that either Reid, Pelosi or other mainstream democrat called Bush "Hitler" on the floor of the House.

[west milly Tom]

That's not calling them Nazis. She's essentially making the point you are.

I believe some people did have signs with swastikas, to assert that Obama was like the Nazis. Again, that's a ridiculous statement.

Agreed. I haven't seen any evidence that there was people doing that but it may have happened. Some say she was referring to the people at the meeting and the protesters was an excuse after~he fact. I heard that on a fringe type show though and never really looked into it further.

[EliSnow]

Agreed. I haven't seen any evidence that there was people doing that but it may have happened. Some say she was referring to the people at the meeting and the protesters was an excuse after~he fact. I heard that on a fringe type show though and never really looked into it further.

I was saying that you made the ridiculous statement, not Pelosi. She was criticizing people carrying swastikas. As I pointed out for the reasons above, that's not the same as calling every "concerned" citizen a Nazi.

You're doing the same thing to Pelosi that you did to Mojo. You take a comment made about some people and assert they are talking about anyone who is anti-Obama. And that's ridiculous.

[Furtherman]

It wasn't and she isn't. The masses at those meetings were citizens. The attempt to skew that has already failed. That talking point is over.

Agreed. I haven't seen any evidence that there was people doing that but it may have happened. Some say she was referring to the people at the meeting and the protesters was an excuse after~he fact. I heard that on a fringe type show though and never really looked into it further.

Then you have no idea what you are talking about. Basically, Pelosi said something and she can't possibly have anything nice to say about you, so her remarks were meant for all.

This has been a waste of two pages of questions you could never answer.

[west milly Tom]

And I still see nothing that either Reid, Pelosi or other mainstream democrat called Bush "Hitler" on the floor of the House.



Sorry it was Byrd. http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/1334/Senator_Byrd_is_Correct_to_Equate_Bush_With_Hitler

[west milly Tom]

Then you have no idea what you are talking about. Basically, Pelosi said something and she can't possibly have anything nice to say about you, so her remarks were meant for all.

This has been a waste of two pages of questions you could never answer.

Again make some sense brother.

[EliSnow]

Again make some sense brother.

You should take your own instruction.

[Furtherman]

Again make some sense brother.

Look into a mirror and say that... you've admited yourself that you don't know what we've been talking about:

I haven't seen any evidence that there was people doing that but it may have happened. Some say she was referring to the people at the meeting and the protesters was an excuse after~he fact. I heard that on a fringe type show though and never really looked into it further.

The only one who doesn't see your fault is you.

[EliSnow]

Sorry it was Byrd. http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/1334/Senator_Byrd_is_Correct_to_Equate_Bush_With_Hitler

And he was criticized for it, (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_309392.html) which disproves your point about the lack of "concern" when he made the point.

[Furtherman]

And he was criticized for it, (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_309392.html) which disproves your point about the lack of "concern" when he made the point.



And again ill repeat I don't listen to conservativ talk radio with the only exception being Levin because he is a constitutional lawyer.

No, but you'll quote gorrilla news network.

[EliSnow]

BTW, when looking for any reference to Harry Reid saying soliders were murderers, what I found the controversy surrounding Harry Reid was his attacking Rush Limbaugh for the use of the term "phony soldiers" on his radio show.

Which is nowhere near what WMT said.

[TheMojoPin]

Sorry it was Byrd. http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/1334/Senator_Byrd_is_Correct_to_Equate_Bush_With_Hitler

Byrd is awful.