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Dr Steve
10-06-2009, 12:50 PM
My kids have been offered the H1N1 vaccine (we take the seasonal flu shot every year). What do you think about this?


The best I can do, really, is quote from the CDC website. This quote bothers me the most:

The proportion of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) based on the 122 Cities Report was low and within the bounds of what is expected at this time of year. However, 60 pediatric deaths related to 2009 H1N1 flu have been reported to CDC since April 2009, including 11 deaths reported this week.

This is 11 deaths out of THOUSANDS of patients, but it still skeeves me enough (i have little kids, too, and I can't even imagine what those families are going through) to get my kids vaccinated for H1N1. I am absolutely biased by the fact that my kids are 6 and 4, I don't deny it. So take my bias into account when you decide whether to vaccinate your kids. Here's what the CDC has to say about vaccination itself:

CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), a panel made up of medical and public health experts, met July 29, 2009, to make recommendations on who should receive the new H1N1 vaccine when it becomes available. While some issues are still unknown, such as how severe the flu season, the ACIP considered several factors, including current disease patterns, populations most at-risk for severe illness based on current trends in illness, hospitalizations and deaths, how much vaccine is expected to be available, and the timing of vaccine availability.

The groups recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine include:

Pregnant women
because they are at higher risk of complications and can potentially provide protection to infants who cannot be vaccinated;

Household contacts and caregivers for children younger than 6 months of age
because younger infants are at higher risk of influenza-related complications and cannot be vaccinated. Vaccination of those in close contact with infants younger than 6 months old might help protect infants by “cocooning” them from the virus;

Healthcare and emergency medical services personnel
because infections among healthcare workers have been reported and this can be a potential source of infection for vulnerable patients. Also, increased absenteeism in this population could reduce healthcare system capacity;

All people from 6 months through 24 years of age
Children from 6 months through 18 years of age
because cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in children who are in close contact with each other in school and day care settings, which increases the likelihood of disease spread, and

Young adults 19 through 24 years of age
because many cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in these healthy young adults and they often live, work, and study in close proximity, and they are a frequently mobile population; and,

Persons aged 25 through 64 years who have health conditions associated with higher risk of medical complications from influenza.

let me know what you decide to do. The FLUMIST is actually supposed to give better immunity because it is a live virus. It's got an extra gene or two that makes it produce a much weaker influenza syndrome (if any at all). The kids do shed the virus and can spread it to other people. The flu "shot" is a dead protein that cannot cause infectious illness, but doesn't convey as strong an immunity against influenza, in general. But it's been "good enough" for many years. There's no perfect vaccine in this world...each one has its pros and cons. I let my kids do the flumist this year because 1) they wanted to avoid the needle stick and 2) since it's supposed to convey better immunity I thought it would be smart this year. They seemed to do fine with it. We'll see.


good luck,

your pal,



Steve

Aggie
10-06-2009, 01:13 PM
I heard from someone there was mercury in it that stays in your brain...is this true? I have no source, just a word of mouth statement.

Personal statement: The vaccine contains thimerosal which is a mercury based preservative. I'm no chemist, but I'm pretty sure mercury is the last thing I want injected into my blood stream. Studies have also linked this particular chemical to autism. The fact that the government is pushing so hard for young children and pregnant women to get the vaccine when they ... Unroll Parchmentknow full well what's in it is disturbing. Oh, and Guillian-Barre Syndrome is a possible side effect. And the drug companies that manufactured the vaccine will not be held liable...

Link: http://preventdisease.com/news/09/080709_swine_flu_hype.shtml

Tenbatsuzen
10-07-2009, 07:40 AM
Dr. Steve:

I am concerned for Liz taking the regular flu vaccine and the H1n1 vaccine, mainly because the h1n1 vaccine hasn't been fully tested and rushed into production. I think this is partly because of my own fears, but I have concerns about Liz taking the h1n1.

I've spoken to two health professionals, one a doctor, one an ER nurse, both who are pregnant. One is taking it, one isn't sure, because "she doesn't want to be a guinea pig".

Am I overreacting?

Aggie
10-07-2009, 08:07 AM
Dr. Steve:

I am concerned for Liz taking the regular flu vaccine and the H1n1 vaccine, mainly because the h1n1 vaccine hasn't been fully tested and rushed into production. I think this is partly because of my own fears, but I have concerns about Liz taking the h1n1.

I've spoken to two health professionals, one a doctor, one an ER nurse, both who are pregnant. One is taking it, one isn't sure, because "she doesn't want to be a guinea pig".

Am I overreacting?

I don't think you are at all. I would not get it. But then again, I don't even get regular flu shots and have never had a problem getting sick. Haven't had a flu in years.

I think it's a big decision. There are risks with anything you inject in your body and I would be extra nervous being pregnant. Don't take the decision lightly. Problem is, there's probably so much pro and against that it gets confusing. So you might need to decide based on what feels right for you both. No one can give you a definitive answer.

Tenbatsuzen
10-07-2009, 08:16 AM
I don't think you are at all. I would not get it. But then again, I don't even get regular flu shots and have never had a problem getting sick. Haven't had a flu in years.

I think it's a big decision. There are risks with anything you inject in your body and I would be extra nervous being pregnant. Don't take the decision lightly. Problem is, there's probably so much pro and against that it gets confusing. So you might need to decide based on what feels right for you both. No one can give you a definitive answer.

I agree. I don't get sick all that often, so I don't think getting the flu shot is a really big deal. Liz does get sick more often, but I keep thinking about thalidomide.

It's like... I know the H1n1 is designed the same way as the regular shot... but who knows what the hell else is in it, especially since the gov't gave the pharma companies a reduced liability.

I don't buy into the "vaccines will give you autism" BS, but I'm concerned about what can happen in utero.

Tenbatsuzen
10-07-2009, 08:21 AM
For the hell of it, I googled H1n1 vaccine myths to put my mind at ease.

I found this:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/Appr%C2%ADovedProducts/UCM182404.pdf

which says this:

8.
1. Pregnancy
Pregnancy Category C: Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine or Fluzone vaccine. It is also not known whether these vaccines can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity.

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed.

Holy fucking shit.

Aggie
10-07-2009, 08:23 AM
For the hell of it, I googled H1n1 vaccine myths to put my mind at ease.

I found this:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/Appr%C2%ADovedProducts/UCM182404.pdf

which says this:

8.
1. Pregnancy
Pregnancy Category C: Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine or Fluzone vaccine. It is also not known whether these vaccines can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity.

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed.

Holy fucking shit.

yeah, i would be concerned.

Tenbatsuzen
10-07-2009, 08:32 AM
Christ almighty, the Fluvirin vaccine hasn't even been tested on pregnant women and kids.

Tenbatsuzen
10-07-2009, 08:44 AM
OK. The good news is, you can get the flu shots without thimerosal.

I don't believe in the whole thimerosal = autism thing, but I also realize that pregnant women will avoid fish because of high mercury content... but are OK with a shot that has mercury in it?

Aggie
10-07-2009, 08:50 AM
OK. The good news is, you can get the flu shots without thimerosal.

I don't believe in the whole thimerosal = autism thing, but I also realize that pregnant women will avoid fish because of high mercury content... but are OK with a shot that has mercury in it?

That's good to know. I still wouldn't get it but that's just me. I hope you guys make an informed decision and are comfortable with it. That's what is important.

walking joint
10-07-2009, 08:50 AM
i have a 1 year old and a 3 year old and i'm leaning towards them getting the shot. I'm worried about the 1 year old getting it more..the virus that is.

Tenbatsuzen
10-07-2009, 08:58 AM
That's good to know. I still wouldn't get it but that's just me. I hope you guys make an informed decision and are comfortable with it. That's what is important.

I basically said as long as she gets the seasonal vaccine without thermosal, I'm fine.

topless_mike
10-07-2009, 11:09 AM
i have a 4 year old and a 3 month old.
the 4 year old gets a regular flu shot, and in my mind, that will suffice.
i wont subject him to something that has just been thrown together like this.

as for the 3 month old, i'd prefer he'd never leave the house, but that is unrealistic.
wife has already had her flu shot (regular). i dont get them.

topless_mike
10-07-2009, 11:18 AM
Christ almighty, the Fluvirin vaccine hasn't even been tested on pregnant women and kids.

kind of a catch 22.
you want to know the effects on a infant / in utero, but wouldnt want them to test it on your kids.

opie's twisted balls
10-07-2009, 12:34 PM
While not directly related to the thread I tested positive for H1N1.

I was feeling a bit ookie most of last week so decided to get checked out, a swab up the nose and 3 days later turns out I have swine flu.

I guess me growing the little curly tail should have also been a giveaway.

topless_mike
10-07-2009, 12:43 PM
While not directly related to the thread I tested positive for H1N1.

I was feeling a bit ookie most of last week so decided to get checked out, a swab up the nose and 3 days later turns out I have swine flu.

I guess me growing the little curly tail should have also been a giveaway.

tamiflu that shit.

opie's twisted balls
10-07-2009, 12:57 PM
tamiflu that shit.

tamiflu, chicken noodle soup and high colonics

Dr Steve
10-26-2009, 06:01 AM
I basically said as long as she gets the seasonal vaccine without thermosal, I'm fine.

Here's the deal on the flu vaccine...

it's made by the same process as the regular vaccine. The lack of testing has really nothing to do with its safety; it's as safe as the other vaccines that they've used for decades. What not testing has done is make its ability to protect from H1N1 unsure. That's not to say it won't protect the population from H1N1, they just can't make a claim to that effect. Scientists won't ever (without breaching ethics) make a claim for something without some scientific proof. Unfortunately for this one, the proof will come during the epidemic rather than before. At worst, it just doesn't work.

Regarding the Thimerosol, there are Mercury salts and then there are MERCURY SALTS. Thimerosol has been studied and studied and studied again and has never been linked in any good scientific study to health problems (except for bacteria, which is what it's used for...as a preservative). Vaccine manufacturers have begun making Thimerosol-free vaccines because so many people just wouldn't get vaccinated otherwise. This is one of those explosive discussions that people get really mad about, so let me just say I still have an open mind on this one (always willing to be proven wrong) and if you're worried about Thimerosol, please feel free to ask for Thimerosol-free vaccines.

If you're healthy, you can certainly take your chances on the flu vaccine. I'm required to take it as a health care worker. We do need some "herd immunity" though, to protect those who are vulnerable and can't take the vaccine, so I hope all those who are at risk will at least take it. Vaccines save lives, there's no question about that. Feel free to check out mortality rates in countries that don't vaccinate for polio, diphtheria and tetanus. Scary.

your pal,



steve