When will white people steal hip hop from black people?

[SatCam]

Of course there has been The Beastie Boys, Eminem, and Vanilla Ice but white people really havent found much success in hip hop and rapping. Do you think white people will steal it from black people like they did jazz and the blues?

Or did they already?

[TheMojoPin]

Did they ever really "steal" jazz or blues? Think of the vast majority of famous and legendary artists from those genre: it's not very pale. I think it's safe to say that the "face" of those genres in America is decidedly non-white.

[monkfish]

White people don't steal.

http://www.hearsay.cc/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/ani-difranco.jpg

[PapaBear]

White's didn't steal Blues. They just repackaged it and called it Rock. Whites will never steal Rap. If they did, white people would stop buying it.

[KC2OSO]

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[instrument]

I think its already gone, every white kid I know whose 24 and under listens to rap.

You don't have to perform the art to have stolen it, you just have to become that musics target audience.

Good job whitey, good job.

[SatCam]

I think its already gone, every white kid I know whose 24 and under listens to rap.

You don't have to perform the art to have stolen it, you just have to become that musics target audience.

Good job whitey, good job.

Well yea, but my point is about the artists, and not the fans. I dont care who the fans are, but will the genre ever become 50/50 or predominantly white artists instead of the way it is now.........

[hedges]

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Everybody understands the blues.
And from one day to another,
everybody has the blues.
Can you dig it?

Albert King

[hedges]

Well yea, but my point is about the artists, and not the fans. I dont care who the fans are, but will the genre ever become 50/50 or predominantly white artists instead of the way it is now.........

I don't think blues or jazz ever became 50/50 and I know they never became dominated by white artists.

[keithy_19]

Any time I have the oppurtunity to post this...

http://21.media.tumblr.com/0MDNzRmkFqhfg7qe6EadjeOzo1_500.jpg

I will.

[SatCam]

I think jazz was definitely adopted by white people, altho it may not be exactly the same as how it was back in the day (but we still call it jazz). Jazz is easy to imitate because it relies more on instruments than vocals in most cases

With blues, im sure it could be argued that the "white version" is called rock and roll. But I think there are still people who preform straight up blues and they are both white and black. I think the black people still have the edge because of the vocals. Part of Eric Clapton's success is because he could sing a lot like a black dude.....

Its taken 100 years but I think I can say confidently that modern jazz and blues is a mixed game



So what do black people have that white people dont? Im gonna say its the voice. Ever hear a white dude sound like jayz? I think he would be just as popular if he existed. I could never get into Eminem and the Beastie Boys because the vocals just arent appealing (on the other side the same goes for lil wayne).

So the jury is still out.....ill bump this post 30 years from now and well see where were at

[sailor]

I think jazz was definitely adopted by white people, altho it may not be exactly the same as how it was back in the day (but we still call it jazz). Jazz is easy to imitate because it relies more on instruments than vocals in most cases

With blues, im sure it could be argued that the "white version" is called rock and roll. But I think there are still people who preform straight up blues and they are both white and black. I think the black people still have the edge because of the vocals. Part of Eric Clapton's success is because he could sing a lot like a black dude.....

Its taken 100 years but I think I can say confidently that modern jazz and blues is a mixed game



So what do black people have that white people dont? Im gonna say its the voice. Ever hear a white dude sound like jayz? I think he would be just as popular if he existed. I could never get into Eminem and the Beastie Boys because the vocals just arent appealing (on the other side the same goes for lil wayne).

So the jury is still out.....ill bump this post 30 years from now and well see where were at

i'd say it's more about the genres that any group typically/stereotypically goes for. similarly few black vocalists succeed in rock, but it'd be equally as silly to say they lack a certain "voice".

[Kublakhan61]

For your education:

BROTHER ALI
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ATMOSPHERE
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EDAN
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[Mafialife Chris]

Not many white guys can do it. Eminem aced it for sure, but I just found this guy that keeps suprising the fuck out of me.

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Were doing something with him soon.

[MacVittie]

White's didn't steal Blues. They just repackaged it and called it Rock. Whites will never steal Rap. If they did, white people would stop buying it.

There have been attempts to repackage hip hop for Whites, with varying success.

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[IamFogHat]

Then we had to start saying flippity-floppity floo.
http://skeptico.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/chef_1.gif

[JohnGacysCrawlSpace]

When will black people stop stealing white people's cars?

[newport king]

no matter how much jay-z claims to be the greatest rapper alive, eminem is a much better rapper. see renegades- <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Gdz3StIpErw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Gdz3StIpErw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[instrument]

You guys keep saying jazz is still black, but I'm sure kenny g has sold more albums in the last 15 years than wynton marsalis ?

[TheMojoPin]

I think jazz was definitely adopted by white people, altho it may not be exactly the same as how it was back in the day (but we still call it jazz). Jazz is easy to imitate because it relies more on instruments than vocals in most cases

With blues, im sure it could be argued that the "white version" is called rock and roll. But I think there are still people who preform straight up blues and they are both white and black. I think the black people still have the edge because of the vocals. Part of Eric Clapton's success is because he could sing a lot like a black dude.....

Its taken 100 years but I think I can say confidently that modern jazz and blues is a mixed game

Couldn't disagree more. You ask the average fans of those genres to name the giants of those genres and probably something like 95% of the names that will be brought up will likely be of black musicians. White artists who claim to be or are marketed as "jazz" or blues" (and the real versions of both, not smooth faux-jazz shit) are still looked at as pretty suspect by music fans and critics.

[TheMojoPin]

You guys keep saying jazz is still black, but I'm sure kenny g has sold more albums in the last 15 years than wynton marsalis ?

Saying Kenny G is jazz is like saying Garth Brooks is country.

[hedges]

White artists who claim to be or are marketed as "jazz" or blues" (and the real versions of both, not smooth faux-jazz shit) are still looked at as pretty suspect by music fans and critics.

There are plenty of white jazz and blues musicians ("real" jazz and blues) that get respect from fans, critics, and fellow musicians. They are not all looked at as pretty suspect.

[tanless1]

You guys keep saying jazz is still black, but I'm sure kenny g has sold more albums in the last 15 years than wynton marsalis ?
Isn't kenny g more new age jazz....not really the same thing. He's rolln w/the likes of john tesh....not dizzie gilespie

[TheMojoPin]

There are plenty of white jazz and blues musicians ("real" jazz and blues) that get respect from fans, critics, and fellow musicians. They are not all looked at as pretty suspect.

Oh, some certainly do once they establish themselves. I'm not saying there are no white people playing in either genre...I'm saying that the vast majority of the major figures from both are not white. In no way have white people "stolen" blues and jazz as the thread is implying happened with early rock. There have been many critical figures in jazz and blues over the decades who are white, but both are still generally seen as "black music." Rock is not.

[TripleSkeet]

So what do black people have that white people dont?

A criminal record?

[Kublakhan61]

Bill Evans.
Scott LaFaro.
Paul Motian.

[TheMojoPin]

OK, let me put it this way: the average person is going to automatically see rock as being generally "white" music. Some of you really think the the general consensus of blues and jazz today is that they're "white" genres over "black?" Like they were "stolen" so totally and completely like rock has been over the last 55 years? Really?

That's in no way saying that there aren't and haven't been significant white players in both genres.

[Kublakhan61]

I was simply adding a few white names in spirit of general education. I don't agree with the premise of this thread - in fact, I suspect that this claim that white had stolen blues and jazz was founded in ignorance. Jazz is black music - plain and simple. Same with the Blues. Neither of the genres have been stolen by Whites. Generally when I see a white musician is performing blues or jazz I walk the other way. It would be like me wanting to go see a white reggae - no dice.


Here's a story about how black jazz is. The jazz world is so black that a great player like bill evans left miles davis band of his ow accord because it was just generally too uncomfortable for him to be there. He was a great player, he was hand picked by miles to play on some records, but it just wasn't his place to be - he had to leave. Jazz is so black, that even great white players aren't fully accepted by the jazz scene.

[hedges]

Generally when I see a white musician is performing blues or jazz I walk the other way.


Here's a story about how black jazz is. The jazz world is so black that a great player like bill evans left miles davis band of his ow accord because it was just generally too uncomfortable for him to be there. He was a great player, he was hand picked by miles to play on some records, but it just wasn't his place to be - he had to leave. Jazz is so black, that even great white players aren't fully accepted by the jazz scene.

You say "generally" when you see a white musician performing blues or jazz you walk away. So there is hope!
Your anecdote about Bill Evans I don't understand. First of all, the band at those sessions wasn't all black. Evans was doing some arranging and playing for them. You're saying he left those sessions because of "how black jazz is", and how he wasn't fully accepted 'cause he was white. Well what about Gerry Mulligan, the white baritone sax player, who arranged songs and played in the same Miles Davis band. He didn't have any problems. And he went on to be credited as an originator of both Cool Jazz and West Coast Jazz.

[TheMojoPin]

Yes, but blues and jazz are still not identified as "white" like rock is. The premise of the thread that that's the case is faulty. They haven't been "stolen."

[vjr97]

its a black art-form that has always been owned by the whites.they own most of the rocord labels and most of the master recordings.it might seem unfair.but many talented blacks have become filthy rich and many more will in the near future.

[keithy_19]

Shit, Satcam is right.

http://thescope.ca/photos/nov2008/dumphy2.jpg

[hedges]

Yes, but blues and jazz are still not identified as "white" like rock is. The premise of the thread that that's the case is faulty. They haven't been "stolen."

I agree.

[Ocho Cinco]

they'll steal hip hop when they steal being the top players in pro sports again. so to answer your question never

[Serpico1103]

Of course there has been The Beastie Boys, Eminem, and Vanilla Ice but white people really havent found much success in hip hop and rapping. Do you think white people will steal it from black people like they did jazz and the blues?

Or did they already?

No. They stole those art forms because they controlled the media outlets. So, a black artist would never get exposure. Along would come a white artist with a stolen gimmick and white audiences would think it is new.

Now, with such diverse media outlets it would be very difficult for white people to "steal" hip hop. But, do you think Vanilla Ice would have gotten a chance if executives did not think that a white artist would sell better simply because he is white?

The same with boxing, a white boxer will rise quicker than a black boxer because it sells more tickets.