President Obama The Anti-Constitutionalist

[west milly Tom]

Recently Time magizine reporter Joe Klien was allowed access to some previously sealed Obama records including: grades, letters of reccomendations, and most importantly papers. There was one paper that was quite disheartening, and be aware that he was only allowed access to the first ten pages. It was entitled, "Aristocracy Reborn". It was not just a paper that he wrote as a poly-sci major but his undergrad thesis at Columbia that has sent up a red flag. Here is the quote that shows the most disdain for the Constitution:

"... the Constitution allows for many things, but what it does not allow is the most revealing. The so-called Founders did not allow for economic freedom. While political freedom is supposedly a cornerstone of the document, the distribution of wealth is not even mentioned. While many believed that the new Constitution gave them liberty, it instead fitted them with the shackles of hypocrisy."

What else do we need to know?

http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/08/obama-college-thesis-constitution-is.html#

[Dude!]

i'm always suspicious
of people who hide things

this guy is kinda scary

[conman823]

Does it really shock you? At this point everyone knows his agenda the only question is will he be able to push it through before Mid-Term elections.

[epo]

So a blog from August is your source?

This thread has as much credibility as the lint in Gregory Joseph's belly button.

[Furtherman]

I wrote a term paper on The Doors in college. I'll have to dig it up to see if it still holds up and I still feel that I'm the Lizard King and I can do anything.

[brettmojo]

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6209/2662reefermadness12ft0.jpg

[SatCam]

What else do we need to know?

Laura Bush killed a guy

[west milly Tom]

So a blog from August is your source?

This thread has as much credibility as the lint in Gregory Joseph's belly button.

it has made quite a few sources at this point. This was the first on the google list.

also, again no rebutt just an attempted source discredit. meh.

[angrymissy]

Sorry, the source was, indeed, crap (this is why people investigate and discredit crap sources)

http://washingtonindependent.com/65015/the-obama-thesis-hoax

The problem: It was a hoax, actually marked as a satire,

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200910230019

Claiming "I have had this happen to me," Limbaugh says he doesn't care if thesis quotes are fake, "I know Obama thinks it"

[west milly Tom]

I wrote a term paper on The Doors in college. I'll have to dig it up to see if it still holds up and I still feel that I'm the Lizard King and I can do anything.

of course you did. still like the doors?

[EliSnow]

it has made quite a few sources at this point. This was the first on the google list.

also, again no rebutt just an attempted source discredit. meh.

Any legitimate sources?

As for the second, you can't expect someone to rebut something that they have no idea about.

It's not like epo's Obama's press secretary and can say whether the paper was written by him or not, or whether Obama still holds such values.

[west milly Tom]

Sorry

http://washingtonindependent.com/65015/the-obama-thesis-hoax

washingtonindependent, lol.

[EliSnow]

washingtonindependent, lol.

Like your souce is any better?

[angrymissy]

washingtonindependent, lol.

The so called "thesis" was marked as satire. Already retracted and you'll notice it's not up on your link anymore.



A report is circulating among the wingnuts that I had a peek at Barack Obama's senior thesis. It is completely false. I've never seen Obama's thesis. I have no idea where this report comes from--but I can assure you that it's complete nonsense.

Update: Michael Ledeen now has apologized to me on his blog, claiming that he, Limbaugh and others were punked by a satire. I appreciate the apology...but I wonder about what the willingness to take this cheesy crap as gospel says about Ledeen's--and Boss Rush's--sensibility. Actually, on second thought, I don't wonder all that much

Read more: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/10/23/nonsense-2/#ixzz0UnttVVOR



http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/10/23/nonsense-2/

[west milly Tom]

The so called "thesis" was marked as satire. Already retracted.



http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/10/23/nonsense-2/

wow, the "I was only jokin'" defense. nice.

[angrymissy]

wow, the "I was only jokin'" defense. nice.

Um, no - it was completely made up from the start.

BTW - I was able to figure that out with a simple google search in 5 seconds.

[west milly Tom]

I have read that this is a hoax on a few websites but have also heard that the hoax designation is a coverup.

[angrymissy]

I have read that this is a hoax on a few websites but have also heard that the hoax designation is a coverup.

The author of the so-called "thesis" marked it as satire when he wrote it back in August.
Tags: Barack Obama, capitalism, college, Columbia University, Constitution, President Obama, satire, thesis, wealth distribution

The person from Time magazine never read any sort of thesis.

[west milly Tom]

Um, no - it was completely made up from the start.

BTW - I was able to figure that out with a simple google search in 5 seconds.

Hoax but nonetheless:

"I'm also told that the blog containing the passage on Obama's thesis is a satire blog. So it's one of these sites like ScrappleFace or The Onion or some such thing. So I shout from the mountaintops: "It was satire!" But we know he thinks it. Good comedy, to be comedy, must contain an element of truth, and we know how he feels about distribution of wealth. He's mad at the courts for not going far enough on it. So we stand by the fabricated quote because we know Obama thinks it anyway. That's how it works in the media today."

I was had, kudos Stateists.

[Furtherman]

I think this clarifies as typical.


Doors rule!

[west milly Tom]

I think this clarifies as typical.


Doors rule!

does it? if it was not satire would it have made you upset, or would you have defended the statements. I believe the statements to be true, hoax or not. Do you?

[Furtherman]

You believed it to be true instantly, without any concern. That shows your bias.

I am not so quick to judge.

[epo]

WMT....just cut it out. This line of stupidity is making you a looking like a troll.

[west milly Tom]

WMT....just cut it out. This line of stupidity is making you a looking like a troll.

can you answer the question or will ou choose not to?

[Furtherman]

I'm also surprised that you would quote a Time magazine reporter without looking into it, since all I heard for 8 years from Bush supporters was that Time magazine was a communist rag.

[Ritalin]

I wrote a term paper on The Doors in college. I'll have to dig it up to see if it still holds up and I still feel that I'm the Lizard King and I can do anything.


The "So Called Lizard King".

[west milly Tom]

You believed it to be true instantly, without any concern. That shows your bias.

I am not so quick to judge.

this site is riddled with bias. you, yourself have proven to be an anti-anythingantiobama. so come now.

[Stankfoot]

I have read that this is a hoax on a few websites but have also heard that the hoax designation is a coverup.

so you decided not to mention the possibility that it may be a hoax in your original post?
interesting ...

[west milly Tom]

audio clip of Obama saying what the satire mocked:

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now what

[EliSnow]

I have read that this is a hoax on a few websites but have also heard that the hoax designation is a coverup.

And despite the fact that you admit there is "debate" about whether it's true or not, you are posting that it is.

Only based upon the fact that you want it to be true.

You are ridiculous.

[west milly Tom]

the supreme court should venture into the area of the redistribution of wealth from his mouth. im bias

[Furtherman]

this site is riddled with bias. you, yourself have proven to be an anti-anythingantiobama. so come now.

No, I've only pointed out flaws in your sources. I've never pointed out flaws in your statements that you've made on your own. An opinion can be discussed rationally. Your "proof" that Obama is out to get us just doesn't work.

[west milly Tom]

And despite the fact that you admit there is "debate" about whether it's true or not, you are posting that it is.

Only based upon the fact that you want it to be true.

You are ridiculous.

one false source, a million real ones. I'm ridiculous.

[epo]

can you answer the question or will ou choose not to?

I'm going to say this to your conservative nutbags until you get it....

If Obama was such a "horrible person", the Clintons would've gladly told us last spring. Seriously...stop playing the rube and buying into this crap.

[west milly Tom]

No, I've only pointed out flaws in your sources. I've never pointed out flaws in your statements that you've made on your own. An opinion can be discussed rationally. Your "proof" that Obama is out to get us just doesn't work.

right, you've never had an original idea about anything. You've just pointed out flaws in my sources. you should work for the white house

[EliSnow]

one false source, a million real ones. I'm ridiculous.

No. As you now admit, it was satire. So that all sources reporting this as real were false.

So no real ones.

So yes, you are ridiculous.

[west milly Tom]

I'm going to say this to your conservative nutbags until you get it....

If Obama was such a "horrible person", the Clintons would've gladly told us last spring. Seriously...stop playing the rube and buying into this crap.

are you for real? the clintons hate Obama. hold on for some audio...

[epo]

right, you've never had an original idea about anything. You've just pointed out flaws in my sources. you should work for the white house

The ironic part is that in discussing political issues, if you bothered to quote credible sources and treat others like adults...people might find common ground with you.

Instead you act like a fucking dick on a very consistent basis.

[EliSnow]

right, you've never had an original idea about anything. You've just pointed out flaws in my sources. you should work for the white house

What else was he supposed to do? He didn't know t the time whether it was true or false.

So he chose to hold back on making a point about it's accuracy until he had more information.

Unlike you, who posted something he read on the internet as being accurate only because you wanted it to be true.

[west milly Tom]

No. As you now admit, it was satire. So that all sources reporting this as real were false.

So no real ones.

So yes, you are ridiculous.


one phoney source about the paper, a million about his true beliefs.

[epo]

one phoney source about the paper, a million about his true beliefs.

Troll.

[west milly Tom]

The ironic part is that in discussing political issues, if you bothered to quote credible sources and treat others like adults...people might find common ground with you.

Instead you act like a fucking dick on a very consistent basis.

is there any other credible source besides cnn, perhaps mslsd? by the way cnn issued an apology to rush today for the false accusation of racisim to avoid suit.

[epo]

is there any other credible source besides cnn, perhaps mslsd? by the way cnn issued an apology to rush today for the false accusation of racisim to avoid suit.

http://img.imeem.com/ai/EC46SSPV36HGDLVNDZ6ZT3L2FU2CSU2V.jpg

[west milly Tom]

Troll.

stateist

[EliSnow]

one phoney source about the paper, a million about his true beliefs.

Yet, you posted that phoney source as true, without any attempt to determine whether it was accurate.

And then criticize people who challenged the source. And you never admit that it was a mistake.

Right now, you owe everyone here who challenged your source an apology.

[EliSnow]

is there any other credible source besides cnn, perhaps mslsd? by the way cnn issued an apology to rush today for the false accusation of racisim to avoid suit.

One credible source on this issue is far more than you posted.

[Furtherman]

right, you've never had an original idea about anything. You've just pointed out flaws in my sources. you should work for the white house

I've had plenty of original ideas, and they're all here on the board.

I've only pointed out your flawed statements because they were obvious. I'd like to think you might not be so quick to post unchecked sources.

[west milly Tom]

One credible source on this issue is far more than you posted.

you listen to the previously posted audio clip? how could a source get better than that?

[epo]

We want our apology!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/angi1vwUkQc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/angi1vwUkQc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[KatPw]

Story regarding the hoax is up on Salon:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/10/23/obama_thesis/

[EliSnow]

you listen to the previously posted audio clip? how could a source get better than that?

You appear to have trouble following along. The topic of this thread, which you started, is about how he wrote a thesis about econoomic freedom.

You posted one source that was false.

After being proven false, you attempt to sidestep your incompetence by talking about something else.

But with regard to the issue of this thread, you didn't post one credible source.

[west milly Tom]

I've had plenty of original ideas, and they're all here on the board.

I've only pointed out your flawed statements because they were obvious. I'd like to think you might not be so quick to post unchecked sources.

to this sir, I will concede. I ran with a story unchecked. I do believe, however, that the sentiments expressed in said satire are very true. in this one instance i was wrong for not validating the source i used. for that i will accept my shameful letter of "C".

check out the audio posted above in which the king himself talks about the redistribution of wealth. he does not lame reference to the socalled founders, but he may as well have.

[epo]

to this sir, I will concede. I ran with a story unchecked. I do believe, however, that the sentiments expressed in said satire are very true. in this one instance i was wrong for not validating the source i used. for that i will accept my shameful letter of "C".

check out the audio posted above in which the king himself talks about the redistribution of wealth. he does not lame reference to the socalled founders, but he may as well have.

I'm guessing a constitutional lawyer, the editor of the Harvard Law Review knows a little bit more about the Warren court in historical context than you....a mouthbreather does.

[west milly Tom]

You appear to have trouble following along. The topic of this thread, which you started, is about how he wrote a thesis about econoomic freedom.

You posted one source that was false.

After being proven false, you attempt to sidestep your incompetence by talking about something else.

But with regard to the issue of this thread, you didn't post one credible source.




no trouble following. the idea of the thread remains the same. you should perhaps follow along closer.

[epo]

no trouble following. the idea of the thread remains the same. you should perhaps follow along closer.

You may be the new Lord Jezo. Do you go to his gym?

[west milly Tom]

I'm guessing a constitutional lawyer, the editor of the Harvard Law Review knows a little bit more about the Warren court in historical context than you....a mouthbreather does.

it's not what he knows, it's what he interperts from what has not yet happened. did you even listen?

[west milly Tom]

You may be the new Lord Jezo. Do you go to his gym?

that's eli's board character, mouthbreather.

[EliSnow]

no trouble following. the idea of the thread remains the same. you should perhaps follow along closer.

No, it isn't the same.

This is your first post:

Recently Time magizine reporter Joe Klien was allowed access to some previously sealed Obama records including: grades, letters of reccomendations, and most importantly papers. There was one paper that was quite disheartening, and be aware that he was only allowed access to the first ten pages. It was entitled, "Aristocracy Reborn". It was not just a paper that he wrote as a poly-sci major but his undergrad thesis at Columbia that has sent up a red flag. Here is the quote that shows the most disdain for the Constitution:

"... the Constitution allows for many things, but what it does not allow is the most revealing. The so-called Founders did not allow for economic freedom. While political freedom is supposedly a cornerstone of the document, the distribution of wealth is not even mentioned. While many believed that the new Constitution gave them liberty, it instead fitted them with the shackles of hypocrisy."

What else do we need to know?

http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/08/obama-college-thesis-constitution-is.html#

This thread is about that supposed thesis.

You only brought up the audio after you finally realized that what everyone else said was true: your source sucked. At that point, you scrambled to maintain some integrity by citing some other audio, but it doesn't change the fact that you didn't post a credible source to start this thread.

You suck at backpedalling.

[KatPw]

t the sentiments expressed in said satire are very true.
WTF??? Seriously? The sentiments contained in a satirical paper written not by Obama, but by some other person hold very true? Really? Because the writer of said satire is a parasite living in Obama's brain? Or perhaps the writer shares a hive mind with Obama. That's it, they are fucking Borg. Because I don't know how else you would know someone else's sentiments. Especially when they are written as a satirical piece by a Conservative writer.

And wouldn't the GOP be happy if Obama really felt that way? It really fits in with "the free market will sort itself out" and Objectivism as a whole.

[EliSnow]

that's eli's board character, mouthbreather.

Who is the guy who posted a false fact as true, and criticized others who tried to point that out to them?

That's all you, little guy.

You may have a problem with that, but it's pretty clear to everyone else here.

[Stankfoot]

stop taking the bait, guys!

[Stankfoot]

stop taking the bait!

[angrymissy]

I'm going to say this to your conservative nutbags until you get it....

If Obama was such a "horrible person", the Clintons would've gladly told us last spring. Seriously...stop playing the rube and buying into this crap.

Yes, and that, not some undying love of Obama, is what immediately made me question the article. Any of this crap would have been unearthed by the Clintons or McCain during election time. They would have used whatever they could get.

And I'd question it if it was super 100% happy time pro Obama too. It's really just as simple as running a google search to find opposing opinions ("obama thesis" under news).

Anything that seems too good to be true on either side usually is.

[Furtherman]

It's also pretty clear that your arguments can't be taken seriously. You've cried wolf too many times.

[angrymissy]

From the author:

Avitabile, a Republican who had previously poked fun at Obama with a tongue-in-cheek article that said scientists had determined that he was "genetically superior," is thankful for all the traffic it generated for his blog Jumping in Pools. In the past he was lucky to get 1,000 hits on a story, but this one got more than 50,000. Yet he's disappointed that so many people published his work without verifying it.

"Out of the 50,000 who looked at it, only three had the good sense to contact me and see if it was true," he told us (PolitiFact was one of the three).

Avitabile described himself as a moderate Republican - "I'm pro-gay rights, pro-wind energy" - but said he was surprised that so many in his party had such negative feelings about Obama.

"People wanted to believe this about the president so bad, that he would really go toward a dictatorship so much that they would go with it without checking it," he said.

[west milly Tom]

It's also pretty clear that your arguments can't be taken seriously. You've cried wolf too many times.

cired wolf? i have deleted 20 responeses to this post. you're right obama is great.

he is definately a more charasmatic carter. i had enough of a beating tonight.

[EliSnow]

i had enough beating tonight.

Any beating you got was deserved. You posted a fake story as true, without waiting to see if a credible source reported it, and when people challenged you on that source, you derided them for doing so.

Reap the whirlwind.

[IMSlacker]

Why hasn't this been merged into the best president ever thread yet?

[west milly Tom]

From the author:

so you know, i'm also pro gay rights and allign way left of the right on social issues. i just believe from the actions of the white house so far that obama is a destructive force in our nation's midst. fiscally the man is a nightmare. cue liberal circle jerk

[west milly Tom]

Any beating you got was deserved. You posted a fake story as true, without waiting to see if a credible source reported it, and when people challenged you on that source, you derided them for doing so.

Reap the whirlwind.

agreed again. poor source checking, got my ass kicked in this thread. no question. as far as my stated bias, it's not anti-obama its pro-middle class. wake up rubes, you're all being fooled, before it's too late.

[Dude!]

Laura Bush killed a guy

the Clintons killed
lots of people

[Furtherman]

cired wolf? i have deleted 20 responeses to this post. you're right obama is great.

he is definately a more charasmatic carter. i had enough of a beating tonight.

You cried socialist more often. I never said Obama was great either. Find that and I might bump your grade up to a C+.

Just don't think every anti-Obama story is truth, just as I don't think every pro-Obama story is true.

[EliSnow]

wake up rubes, you're all being fooled, before it's too late.

Says the guy who was fooled by a fake news article.

[foodcourtdruide]

Wow. With this news he'll never become president!

Haha, I was dooped :D

[Furtherman]

Pro-Middle class?

Is that a class they offer at the gym?

[SinA]

to this sir, I will concede. I ran with a story unchecked. I do believe, however, that the sentiments expressed in said satire are very true. in this one instance i was wrong for not validating the source i used. for that i will accept my shameful letter of "C".

check out the audio posted above in which the king himself talks about the redistribution of wealth. he does not lame reference to the socalled founders, but he may as well have.

this is one of my biggest issues with right wing nutfucks
they know not of what they speak, but even when they find it to be untrue they they still choose to believe.

[west milly Tom]

Pro-Middle class?

Is that a class they offer at the gym?

Cunt.

[SatCam]

Does Obama want the rich to help out the poor? Yes, it's no secret. What the fuck are you trying to prove?

[foodcourtdruide]

Does Obama want the rich to help out the poor? Yes, it's no secret. What the fuck are you trying to prove?

A nefarious conspiracy theory to destroy class divisions in this country.

[Furtherman]

Cunt.

It must be hard to stare out the window looking at a nation that isn't against you no matter how much you want it to be.

Not trying to bash your opinions WMT, only those of who you believe on blind faith.

[JimBeam]

... only those of who you believe on blind faith.

Now I don't know this for sure but I'll guess based on what I perceive as your defense of many things Obama that you supported and voted for him this year.

What " faith " did you have in him ?

this is one of my biggest issues with right wing nutfucks
they know not of what they speak, but even when they find it to be untrue they they still choose to believe.

Not that any of you dicussing the issue in this topic believe 9/11 was am inside job but do you think the " nutfucks " that do are right wingers ?

[IMSlacker]

Not that any of you dicussing the issue in this topic believe 9/11 was am inside job but do you think the " nutfucks " that do are right wingers ?

He never said that there weren't left wing "nutfucks" too.

[Furtherman]

Now I don't know this for sure but I'll guess based on what I perceive as your defense of many things Obama that you supported and voted for him this year.

What " faith " did you have in him ?

It's not about having faith in Obama, it about learning the facts of where he, or any other politician, can do the best for us.

Blind faith in someone that told to be good or bad by their supporters or opposition is not a smart way to make an argument.

[Dude!]

cired wolf? i have deleted 20 responeses to this post. you're right obama is great.

he is definately a more charasmatic carter. i had enough of a beating tonight.

belittling people is a classic
tool of the left

they like to do it in packs too
like mao's gangs

so chin up and
"Illegitimi Non Carborundum"
which roughly translates as:

"Don't let the gay racist
commie homo-fags
get you down"

[vjr97]

he tried to ban fox news from a confrence!? what a fucking idiot!!

[underdog]

perhaps mslsd?

OMG THAT'S HILARIOUS. INSTEAD OF MSNBC YOU SAID MSLSD. YOU'RE HILARIOUS. YOU'RE GOING TO BE THE NEXT JEFF DUNHAM. HILARIOUS.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

OMG THAT'S HILARIOUS. INSTEAD OF MSNBC YOU SAID MSLSD. YOU'RE HILARIOUS. YOU'RE GOING TO BE THE NEXT JEFF DUNHAM. HILARIOUS.

Hows MessNBC ? or MS National Barack Channel

I know Fox takes a beating here but Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow and crew are being paid by us. GE took tarp funds

[underdog]

Hows MessNBC ?

No, that doesn't work because it actually makes sense.

MSNBC to MSLSD is perfect. It's just like the way I rename Fox News : Fox Cocaine.

[underdog]

I know Fox takes a beating here but Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow and crew are being paid by us. GE took tarp funds

I really don't think I've ever seen anyone defend MSNBC on this board. MSNBC (along with every other american news channel) is fucking awful.

And I don't know how anyone could ever take NBC seriously. They still employ Jim Cramer. He's NEVER BEEN RIGHT ABOUT ANYTHING.

[Tallman388]

so chin up and
"Illegitimi Non Carborundum"
which roughly translates as:

"Don't let the gay racist
commie homo-fags
get you down"

You rule.

[HBox]

No, that doesn't work because it actually makes sense.

MSNBC to MSLSD is perfect. It's just like the way I rename Fox News : Fox COOOO-FUCKING-CAAAAAAAIIIIIINNNNEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Fixed.

BTW this thread is even more hilarious with WMT on ignore. You don't even need to read his posts to know exactly what is going on.

[SonOfSmeagol]

My god, what a feeding frenzy. Does the "punishment" fit the "crime"? In this case I would say No.

[HBox]

My god, what a feeding frenzy. Does the "punishment" fit the "crime"? In this case I would say No.

Just this crime? No. But almost every post of his in this forum is exactly the same thing as this to varying degrees.

Not to mention it's exactly this mindset that leads people to believe that there will be death panels and that Obama was born in Kenya.

[keithy_19]

Not to mention it's exactly this mindset that leads people to believe that there will be death panels and that Obama was born in Kenya.

Obama was never born. He simply was.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Just this crime? No. But almost every post of his in this forum is exactly the same thing as this to varying degrees.

I don’t know about any other “crimes”, but I read through this thread and thought “ouch”. Most importantly, the starting point just wasn’t that big a deal – people dismiss that kind of stuff all day long. Then he tried repeatedly to back away and was relentlessly pursued, so he got defensive. Honestly, he took a lot more than he gave here, and there was a lot of arguing over nothing of any substance really, and absolutely nothing new. Almost felt like… a bumfight – no one ever really wins because there's nothing to fight about, but sad to watch. And I’m not calling anyone a bum here because I truly don’t care about the topic – except – where the fuck is that real thesis anyway? I have now reached the epitome of discussing the discussion.

[Crispy123]

Recently Time magizine reporter Joe Klien was allowed access to some previously sealed Obama records including: grades, letters of reccomendations, and most importantly papers. There was one paper that was quite disheartening, and be aware that he was only allowed access to the first ten pages. It was entitled, "Aristocracy Reborn". It was not just a paper that he wrote as a poly-sci major but his undergrad thesis at Columbia that has sent up a red flag. Here is the quote that shows the most disdain for the Constitution:

"... the Constitution allows for many things, but what it does not allow is the most revealing. The so-called Founders did not allow for economic freedom. While political freedom is supposedly a cornerstone of the document, the distribution of wealth is not even mentioned. While many believed that the new Constitution gave them liberty, it instead fitted them with the shackles of hypocrisy."

What else do we need to know?

http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/08/obama-college-thesis-constitution-is.html#

you screwed up. its president Bush that shits n the constitution,

[EliSnow]

I don’t know about any other “crimes”, but I read through this thread and thought “ouch”. Most importantly, the starting point just wasn’t that big a deal – people dismiss that kind of stuff all day long. Then he tried repeatedly to back away and was relentlessly pursued, so he got defensive. Honestly, he took a lot more than he gave here, and there was a lot of arguing over nothing of any substance really, and absolutely nothing new. Almost felt like… a bumfight – no one ever really wins because there's nothing to fight about, but sad to watch. And I’m not calling anyone a bum here because I truly don’t care about the topic – except – where the fuck is that real thesis anyway? I have now reached the epitome of discussing the discussion.

You act as if he started "backing away" almost immediately. You forgot the part where people challenged his source and rather than acknowledging that is wasn't a credible source, he 1) said there were other sources reporting the same thing, 2) criticized people for challenging his source, 3) derided others when they started posting sources that showed his source was wrong and 4) tried to change the subject by changing the issue.

He didn't back away or admit he was wrong was after a lot of other stuff had passed.

[GregoryJoseph]

The sooner you all admit that Obama despises the United States of America and all it stands for the better off you'll be.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama was never born. He simply was.

Yes he was. He was Born in a manger in Kenya

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I really don't think I've ever seen anyone defend MSNBC on this board. MSNBC (along with every other american news channel) is fucking awful.

And I don't know how anyone could ever take NBC seriously. They still employ Jim Cramer. He's NEVER BEEN RIGHT ABOUT ANYTHING.

If people would have shorted his recommendations on Bear, Wamu and Wachovia they could have made a fortune

[Stankfoot]

I heard on Fox that Obama was president of the Che Guevara Fan Club at Harvard.

http://www.virtuousplanet.com/shops/userimages/00003/00000000008/section/00000000000000061879.png

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I hear on Fox that Obama was president of the Che Guevara Fan Club at Harvard.

http://www.virtuousplanet.com/shops/userimages/00003/00000000008/section/00000000000000061879.png

How was he able to straighten his hair like that?

[TheMojoPin]

The sooner you all admit that Obama despises the United States of America and all it stands for the better off you'll be.

Obama just hates you, like all good Americans do.

[KnoxHarrington]

I think this post from Fark pretty much shows the lameness of the "But Obama thinks that!" defense for Rush being taken for a total rube:

"I love farking Dominican boys" - Rush Limbaugh.

Now, that's not an actual quote. But we know he thinks it.

[JimBeam]

Actually i think the MSLSD comes from Merk Levin.

While he and I may agree on many things ideolgically I can't stand him.

I find him to be so much more " insane " so to speak than any other conservative host.

I'm not really a fan of any of them but I will occasionally listen when my Sirius is acting up or there's nothing else on any of the sports channels.

And to be honest when I read the title of the thread and the initial post I believed it could be true but I don't think it would've mattered much to me.

What you write about in college doesn't drive you for your entire life.

I also realize that politicians, like anybody, are allowed to change their philosophies.

If I remember correctly both Reagan and Clinton did a flip flop on abortion later in their political careers.

[KnoxHarrington]

Actually i think the MSLSD comes from Merk Levin.

While he and I may agree on many things ideolgically I can't stand him.

I find him to be so much more " insane " so to speak than any other conservative host.

I'm not really a fan of any of them but I will occasionally listen when my Sirius is acting up or there's nothing else on any of the sports channels.

And to be honest when I read the title of the thread and the initial post I believed it could be true but I don't think it would've mattered much to me.

What you write about in college doesn't drive you for your entire life.

I also realize that politicians, like anybody, are allowed to change their philosophies.

If I remember correctly both Reagan and Clinton did a flip flop on abortion later in their political careers.

I know I went through my period of being an actual, practicing Marxist for a while in college.

I think I might have been an anarchist for a couple of weeks too. That was fun.

[dino_electropolis]

I know I went through my period of being an actual, practicing Marxist for a while in college.

I think I might have been an anarchist for a couple of weeks too. That was fun.

I once dressed up as a nihilist for halloween one year. That was fun too.

[A.J.]

I wrote a term paper on The Doors in college. I'll have to dig it up to see if it still holds up and I still feel that I'm the Lizard King and I can do anything.

The lizards declared a constitutional monarchy. The Lizard King is nothing more than a ceremonial figurehead now.

[underdog]

I once dressed up as a nihilist for halloween one year. That was fun too.

Did you not go out?

[west milly Tom]

I have been thinking about this thread and my "faith" in the sources I count on to bring me the information not in the mainstream media. I have to say that after last night I will never think the same way again. I looked like an idiot, many of you think I am anyway. I would just like to say that what I took from this was signifigant. I will never trust a source on his/her word alone again. So let me say sorry for being so hasty last night and thanks for the lesson .net talking heads.

[keithy_19]

What you write about in college doesn't drive you for your entire life.



I actually like taking positions that are controversial when I write papers. I hardly ever agree with my thesis, but I still do it.

[The Jays]

Tell that to Glen Beck. He likes to state how members of Obama's administration wrote a paper about Marx in college, thereby proving that, 20-30 years later, they are Communists.

[high fly]

Actually i think the MSLSD comes from Merk Levin.

While he and I may agree on many things ideolgically I can't stand him.

I find him to be so much more " insane " so to speak than any other conservative host.




That's right I said it!

[Stankfoot]

Tell that to Glen Beck. He likes to state how members of Obama's administration wrote a paper about Marx in college, thereby proving that, 20-30 years later, they are Communists.

What did Glen Beck right about when he was in college? Oh wait, he didn't go. He was honing his craft at the time instead:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AJkxBLgd5Hs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AJkxBLgd5Hs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[foodcourtdruide]

I once dressed up as a nihilist for halloween one year. That was fun too.

Did you dress up like the nihilists from the big lebowski?

[foodcourtdruide]

I have been thinking about this thread and my "faith" in the sources I count on to bring me the information not in the mainstream media. I have to say that after last night I will never think the same way again. I looked like an idiot, many of you think I am anyway. I would just like to say that what I took from this was signifigant. I will never trust a source on his/her word alone again. So let me say sorry for being so hasty last night and thanks for the lesson .net talking heads.

You needed this thread for that? Not the other times your sources have been discredited on this board? Why does it even matter that this source was bogus? You just want to believe that Obama is bad for this country. Just believe it. You believed this without proof before, why's it matter now?

[Ritalin]

I have been thinking about this thread and my "faith" in the sources I count on to bring me the information not in the mainstream media. I have to say that after last night I will never think the same way again. I looked like an idiot, many of you think I am anyway. I would just like to say that what I took from this was signifigant. I will never trust a source on his/her word alone again. So let me say sorry for being so hasty last night and thanks for the lesson .net talking heads.

Nicely done.

I saw this just now. It's interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/6408927/Internet-rules-and-laws-the-top-10-from-Godwin-to-Poe.html

[Kublakhan61]

The so-called Founders did not allow for economic freedom.

What else do we need to know?


You need to know that the supposed Columbia faculty member that sponsored this supposed undergraduate thesis would have edited out the usage of "so-called". The Founders were not so called, they were indeed the founders. Not real. Think before you post!

[west milly Tom]

You needed this thread for that? Not the other times your sources have been discredited on this board? Why does it even matter that this source was bogus? You just want to believe that Obama is bad for this country. Just believe it. You believed this without proof before, why's it matter now?

discredited? lol. you have never ever discredited me once. you're a piler on. you tag the ideas of others and ride the skirts around the political threads. get back to me when you have an idea other than how wrong i am or how right furtherman is.

as for Obama, he is bad for the country. his policies have hurt this country for generations to come. he promised to keep unemployment from going over 8 on live tv if the stimulus bill was passed, which btw was the largest spending bill of all time. Unemployment is well beyond that and he's looking at a second stimulus bill. he's expanding the size and powers of the federal governement well beyond their constututional limits through cap and tax and national health care and crazy spending. an intereting article i read said that if no more money was spent from today on it would take five generations to repay the deficit that Obama created, not what he came into. he went to france and apologized for "american arrogance", and he, himself got laughed out of europe with almost no help, certainly not anywhere near what he asked for. his numerous czars are being outed by the day. chairman mao is making appearences in their speeches. he's trying to block a media network from access to the news, even the other media groups thought too much of that. he's playing politics with the lives of troops in afganistan by putting off the reccomendation of the joint chiefs and general in charge to make sure his allies for health care are still backing him. the value of the dollar is in the shitter and the government is getting bigger by the day so it can save us from ourselvs. enjoy this quote:

And yet, the Statist has an insatiable appetite for control. His sights are set on his next meal even before he has fully digested his last. He is constantly agitating for government action. And in furtherance of that purpose, the Statist speaks in the tongue of the demagogue, concocting one pretext and grievance after another to manipulate public perceptions and build popular momentum for the divestiture of liberty and property from its rightful possessors. The industrious, earnest, and successful are demonized as perpetrators of various offenses against the public good, which justifies governmental intervention on behalf of an endless parade of "victims." In this way, the perpetrator and the victim are subordinated to the government's authority -- the former by outright theft, the latter by a dependent existence. In truth, both are made victims by the real perpetrator, the Statist.

[west milly Tom]

Nicely done.

I saw this just now. It's interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/6408927/Internet-rules-and-laws-the-top-10-from-Godwin-to-Poe.html

great article budday.

As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1

and my favorite of the list: 8. DeMyer's Laws
Named for Ken DeMyer, a moderator on Conservapedia.com. There are four: the Zeroth, First, Second and Third Laws.

The Second Law states: “Anyone who posts an argument on the internet which is largely quotations can be very safely ignored, and is deemed to have lost the argument before it has begun.”

[foodcourtdruide]

discredited? lol. you have never ever discredited me once. you're a piler on. you tag the ideas of others and ride the skirts around the political threads. get back to me when you have an idea other than how wrong i am or how right furtherman is.


I never said I've discredited you. I think Missy does a pretty good job of that. I'm truthfully not too involved in politics, I have more of an interest in media, as that was my major in college and the two seem to bleed into eachother. I've never thought of myself as a piler-on, but I guess I don't start many political threads on this board, so if you want to call me that it's ok. I think people like mojo, eli, missy, wrestlingfan, badmonkey are much better versed in politics than I am. I enjoy watching them debate and learn a lot from both sides.

[west milly Tom]

I never said I've discredited you. I think Missy does a pretty good job of that.

nuff said

[foodcourtdruide]

nuff said

Huh? How is that "nuff said"?

[JimBeam]

That's right I said it!

What's also so horrible about Levin is that his idea of put downs are those of a 4th grader.

Keith Olberman = Keith Overbite
Chuck Schumer = Shmuckey Schumer
Associated Press = Associated Depressed

So f-ing lame.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What's also so horrible about Levin is that his idea of put downs are those of a 4th grader.

Keith Olberman = Keith Overbite
Chuck Schumer = Shmuckey Schumer
Associated Press = Associated Depressed

So f-ing lame.

Hillary Rotten Clinton
Stretch Pelosi
John Dingle Berry
John McLame

[foodcourtdruide]

Hillary Rotten Clinton
Stretch Pelosi
John Dingle Berry
John McLame

Can't stop laughing.

[keithy_19]

Hillary Rotten Clinton
Stretch Pelosi
John Dingle Berry
John McLame

Barbara Boxer.

...wait, I don't get it..

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Can't stop laughing.

He is right about "Keith Overbite" it really is "Countdown to no Ratings"

After his special comments it should be Meltdown with Keith Olbermann

[badmonkey]

Is Levin the one that called Pelosi "Blinky"?

[Stankfoot]

discredited? lol. you have never ever discredited me once. you're a piler on. you tag the ideas of others and ride the skirts around the political threads. get back to me when you have an idea other than how wrong i am or how right furtherman is.

as for Obama, he is bad for the country. his policies have hurt this country for generations to come. he promised to keep unemployment from going over 8 on live tv if the stimulus bill was passed, which btw was the largest spending bill of all time. Unemployment is well beyond that and he's looking at a second stimulus bill. he's expanding the size and powers of the federal governement well beyond their constututional limits through cap and tax and national health care and crazy spending. an intereting article i read said that if no more money was spent from today on it would take five generations to repay the deficit that Obama created, not what he came into. he went to france and apologized for "american arrogance", and he, himself got laughed out of europe with almost no help, certainly not anywhere near what he asked for. his numerous czars are being outed by the day. chairman mao is making appearences in their speeches. he's trying to block a media network from access to the news, even the other media groups thought too much of that. he's playing politics with the lives of troops in afganistan by putting off the reccomendation of the joint chiefs and general in charge to make sure his allies for health care are still backing him. the value of the dollar is in the shitter and the government is getting bigger by the day so it can save us from ourselvs. [/I]

I'm glad to see your recent beat down didn't dampen your spirit! :laugh:

I don't get the "apologized for american arrogance" argument. I know you're not the only one saying that but when I read what he said I don't see an apology in there:

"In recent years we've allowed our Alliance to drift. I know that there have been honest disagreements over policy, but we also know that there's something more that has crept into our relationship. In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.

But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad."

Is admitting America may have done something wrong the same as apologizing for it?
Not in my book.

[epo]

Limbaugh Falls for Obama Thesis Hoax (http://news.aol.com/article/limbaugh-falls-for-obama-thesis-hoax/735565?icid=main|aimzones|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fn ews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Flimbaugh-falls-for-obama-thesis-hoax%2F735565)

(Oct. 25) - A fictitious article that claimed President Barack Obama slammed the Constitution in his college thesis had some people fooled into thinking it was the real thing -- including Rush Limbaugh.

The conservative radio show host reported the story as fact on his show Friday after an obscure blogger, Michael Leeden, picked it up from a satire Web site last week. But after Limbaugh found out the piece was a fake, he didn't apologize for his mistake, the New York Daily News reported Sunday.

Rush owes Ronfez.net an apology for this shitty thread.

[HBox]

Rush Limbaugh wrote in his college thesis that he loves to rape children.

OK, that was a hoax but we all know he thinks it.

[west milly Tom]

I'm glad to see your recent beat down didn't dampen your spirit! :laugh:

I don't get the "apologized for american arrogance" argument. I know you're not the only one saying that but when I read what he said I don't see an apology in there:

"In recent years we've allowed our Alliance to drift. I know that there have been honest disagreements over policy, but we also know that there's something more that has crept into our relationship. In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.

But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad."

Is admitting America may have done something wrong the same as apologizing for it?
Not in my book.

he said i apologize. where did you miss it?

[angrymissy]

he said i apologize. where did you miss it?

I must have missed it. Here's the full transcript:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/03/politics/100days/worldaffairs/main4918137.shtml

Where did he say I apologize?

He basically said, Hey we've kind of been assholes, and you've kind of been assholes back, we need to stop being assholes and work together.

[EliSnow]

Rush Limbaugh wrote in his college thesis that he loves to rape children.

OK, that was a hoax but we all know he thinks it.

When Rush was jonesing for Oxycotin, he admitted he would sell his soul and his country for another batch.



That's not true, but I know he had to be thinking it.

[Furtherman]

I have been thinking about this thread and my "faith" in the sources I count on to bring me the information not in the mainstream media. I have to say that after last night I will never think the same way again. I looked like an idiot, many of you think I am anyway. I would just like to say that what I took from this was signifigant. I will never trust a source on his/her word alone again. So let me say sorry for being so hasty last night and thanks for the lesson .net talking heads.

Logical, sincere and well said. It's always nice when someone stops to thi...

discredited? lol. you have never ever discredited me once. you're a piler on. you tag the ideas of others and ride the skirts around the political threads. get back to me when you have an idea other than how wrong i am or how right furtherman is.

as for Obama, he is bad for the country. his policies have hurt this country for generations to come. he promised to keep unemployment from going over 8 on live tv if the stimulus bill was passed, which btw was the largest spending bill of all time. Unemployment is well beyond that and he's looking at a second stimulus bill. he's expanding the size and powers of the federal governement well beyond their constututional limits through cap and tax and national health care and crazy spending. an intereting article i read said that if no more money was spent from today on it would take five generations to repay the deficit that Obama created, not what he came into. he went to france and apologized for "american arrogance", and he, himself got laughed out of europe with almost no help, certainly not anywhere near what he asked for. his numerous czars are being outed by the day. chairman mao is making appearences in their speeches. he's trying to block a media network from access to the news, even the other media groups thought too much of that. he's playing politics with the lives of troops in afganistan by putting off the reccomendation of the joint chiefs and general in charge to make sure his allies for health care are still backing him. the value of the dollar is in the shitter and the government is getting bigger by the day so it can save us from ourselvs.

Well that didn't last long.

[angrymissy]

Also, Obama never promised (on live TV, no less) to keep unemployment under 8% if the stimulus passed. This came from a report that the administration put out with different forecasting of the unemployment rates based on on the stimulus.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/09/eric-cantor/Cantor-and-other-republicans-say-obama-promised-s/

What we can rule on, however, is whether the Obama administration "promised" that unemployment rates would not rise above 8 percent if the stimulus were passed. We could find no instance of anyone in the administration directly making such a public pledge.

What we saw from the administration in January was a projection, not a promise. And it was a projection that came with heavy disclaimers.

"It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error," the report states. "There is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."

There's also a footnote that goes along with the chart that states: "Forecasts of the unemployment rate without the recovery plan vary substantially. Some private forecasters anticipate unemployment rates as high as 11% in the absence of action."

[Syd]

he said i apologize. where did you miss it?

Even still, what's wrong with apologizing to America's first and foremost ally? Regardless, Obama didn't apologize but merely noted that the cavalier attitude America had caused a great deal of damage both physically and mentally to much of the world.

[Recyclerz]

Rush Limbaugh wrote in his college thesis that he loves to rape children.
OK, that was a hoax but we all know he thinks it.

That's a dirty, socialist, femi-Nazi lie!!!!


Everybody knows that Rush dropped out of college after a year.


He wrote that in a freshman comp course.

[Knowledged_one]

Jan. 9, 2009, report called "The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan" from Christina Romer, chairwoman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, and Jared Bernstein, the vice president's top economic adviser.

Their report projected that the stimulus plan proposed by Obama would create between three and four million jobs by the end of 2010. The report also includes a graphic predicting unemployment rates with and without the stimulus. Without the stimulus (the baseline), unemployment was projected to hit about 8.5 percent in 2009 and then continue rising to a peak of about 9 percent in 2010. With the stimulus, they predicted the unemployment rate would peak at just under 8 percent in 2009.

Yes it is just "projections" that way they dont get roped into a promised level in any kind of actual statement by Obama, just by his top economic advisor

Barack "Teflon" Obama, cant make anything he says stick, he just lets the people he chooses to be his spokespeople make the statements. That way he can claim to have never made them

I guess it takes a Carter to get a reagan

[Syd]

I guess it takes a Carter to get a reagan

yeah definitely can't wait for excessive deficit spending, the wholesaling of america to foreign nations, the gutting of the working class, the gilded age, financial scandals and endless secret wars

fun times during the Reagan years. I hope we actually get another one, America deserves to be finished off.

[brettmojo]

yeah definitely can't wait for excessive deficit spending, the wholesaling of america to foreign nations, the gutting of the working class, the gilded age, financial scandals and endless secret wars

fun times during the Reagan years. I hope we actually get another one, America deserves to be finished off.
Hey, he demanded a fat guy with a coffee stain on his head to tear down a dilapidated wall...

If that doesn't make him exactly what this country needs right now then I don't know what would.

[SinA]

Fox News? More like Fox JEWS

[keithy_19]

Fox News? More like Fox JEWS

Pssst. wrong thread.

[angrymissy]

Fact of the matter is, barack obama never promised on live tv that unemployment wouldn't go under 8% if the stimulus passed, as the right wing legend goes.

Nothing was "promised" whatsoever. No one promised squat. Projections were made in a report, complete with warnings that they could be incorrect... Basically saying that unemployment would be 1% less with the stimulus passed.


Can you not admit it's a bit ridiculous that it got spun into "Obama PROMISED!!! ON LIVE TV". No one bothers to check basic shit anymore. They don't like Obama and will believe and repeat anything they hear. And people call obama supporters sheep...

[Knowledged_one]

yeah definitely can't wait for excessive deficit spending, the wholesaling of america to foreign nations, the gutting of the working class, the gilded age, financial scandals and endless secret wars

fun times during the Reagan years. I hope we actually get another one, America deserves to be finished off.

Other then winning the Cold War and saving america yeah.

America deserves to be finished off, tell you what sunshine get the fuck out then

[Knowledged_one]

Fact of the matter is, barack obama never promised on live tv that unemployment wouldn't go under 8% if the stimulus passed, as the right wing legend goes.

Nothing was "promised" whatsoever. No one promised squat. Projections were made in a report, complete with warnings that they could be incorrect... Basically saying that unemployment would be 1% less with the stimulus passed.


Can you not admit it's a bit ridiculous that it got spun into "Obama PROMISED!!! ON LIVE TV". No one bothers to check basic shit anymore. They don't like Obama and will believe and repeat anything they hear. And people call obama supporters sheep...

Maybe its because he lets his policy advisors speak for him instead of putting his name on anything. You are right projections are just that but when you have 15 states with over 10% unemployment and it keeps rising and no jobs are being created yet 40% of the stimulus has been spent. When will you admit that it was a bunch of bullshit and the american public was sold a bill of fake goods

[Syd]

Other then winning the Cold War and saving america yeah.

America deserves to be finished off, tell you what sunshine get the fuck out then

Hate to break it to you bubby but it was the Sino-Soviet split combined with the inability to both feed its people as well as keep up militarily with the US (even after the SALT treaty) that brought the Soviet Empire down. Reagan just happened to be president at the time, but the actual fall of the USSR had been an ongoing saga since the early 60s. Reagan gets entirely too much credit for simply holding the office at the time. He's no more responsible for ending the Cold War than I am responsible for the Yankees winning the ALCS.

Don't worry though, it's not like after the peak of the Russian Empire they became involved in Afghanistan. It's a good thing too since the nickname for the region is the Graveyard of the Empires

[angrymissy]

Maybe its because he lets his policy advisors speak for him instead of putting his name on anything. You are right projections are just that but when you have 15 states with over 10% unemployment and it keeps rising and no jobs are being created yet 40% of the stimulus has been spent. When will you admit that it was a bunch of bullshit and the american public was sold a bill of fake goods

When 100% has been spent and we do not see a recovery after a decent amount of time. Shit doesn't happen overnight, yet everyone expects it to. Regardless, it's already starting to turn around.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aDGvmWmB18w0
The economy in the U.S. probably grew in the third quarter at the fastest pace in two years as government stimulus helped bring an end to the worst recession since the 1930s, economists said before reports this week.

The question we ask is - would this have happened without the stimulus? Unemployment rates are not going to drop overnight. It takes time.

And again, no one promised anything. Not Obama, and not his policy advisers.

[A.J.]

Hate to break it to you bubby but it was the Sino-Soviet split combined with the inability to both feed its people as well as keep up militarily with the US (even after the SALT treaty) that brought the Soviet Empire down. Reagan just happened to be president at the time, but the actual fall of the USSR had been an ongoing saga since the early 60s. Reagan gets entirely too much credit for simply holding the office at the time. He's no more responsible for ending the Cold War than I am responsible for the Yankees winning the ALCS.

I feel the same way every time Clinton tries to take credit for the 90s boom.

[epo]

Other then winning the Cold War and saving america yeah.

America deserves to be finished off, tell you what sunshine get the fuck out then

I'll give more credit to depressed world oil prices than I'll give to Reagan for grandstanding for ending the Cold War.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I feel the same way every time Clinton tries to take credit for the 90s boom.

Which with the help of the fed was a major factor of the dot com bubble and burst

[Serpico1103]

Other then winning the Cold War and saving america yeah.

America deserves to be finished off, tell you what sunshine get the fuck out then

I see your glass if empty, more Kool-Aid?