Afghanistan

[WRESTLINGFAN]

For the past few months, Afghanistan has been getting progressively worse. I admit back in '01 I was all for the invasion but as the years went by I started to question our role there. I put in other threads that our military shouldnt be Public relations representatives. Just like our presence in iraq has strenghtened Iran, having troops in Afghanistan enables Pakistan which already has nukes. If Obama decides to withdraw, he wont be getting any crtiticism from me. I know that we cant just pick up and leave, however the less of a presence there is better.

Afghanistan is a disaster, its led by a corrupt government, Fuck 'em they don't want to be a western style democracy, . Let the Afghans clean up their own mess

[TheMojoPin]

"For the past few months?"

Afghanistan has been the mess it's been for about 5 years now.

How is Pakistan being "enabled?" How is Iran "made stronger" by us being in Iraq?

We should be out of Afghanistan, but you're all over the place.

[A.J.]

If we had a viable war plan the first time around which would have wiped out Al-Qa'ida and the Taliban, instead of letting them cross over into Pakistan so they could regroup, we may not be in this clusterfuck right now.

I'm really torn on this issue. Part of me is loathe to cut and run on these people again since the last time we did that, it fostered the rise of extremism and the recruitment and training of jihadists. On the other hand, if we stay, it will seem like we are occupying Crusaders: which will continue the foster the rise of extremism and the recruitment and training of jihadists. Nice Catch-22.

If it were at all possible, I would like to see if the President could persuade some the stronger Arab powers (Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia) to form an Arab peace-keeping coalition there to replace us and NATO: such as the one that was half-heartedly proposed for Iraq a few years ago. We could sell it by telling them it would give them prestige as important regional players and they would also be close enough to help to keep Iran in check.

To just bail would be a nightmare for the region as a whole.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

"For the past few months?"

Afghanistan has been the mess it's been for about 5 years now.

How is Pakistan being "enabled?" How is Iran "made stronger" by us being in Iraq?

We should be out of Afghanistan, but you're all over the place.

The past few months have been the most deadly for the military. As far as Iraq theres still the Sunni/Shi'a factor. Iraq is about 60 Shia and Iran is almost all Shia

Pakistan has been a target of a lot of terrorist attacks lately

[A.J.]

How is Iran "made stronger" by us being in Iraq?

You don't think the overthrow of Saddam Hussein has embolded Iran? That they're not manipulating the Shia population in Iraq or doing much more sabre-rattling than in the past?

[TheMojoPin]

You don't think the overthrow of Saddam Hussein has embolded Iran? That they're not manipulating the Shia population in Iraq or doing much more sabre-rattling than in the past?

To a point. There's only so much they can do with us right next door. If we just up and took our shit and went home, yes, they''d definitely be a stronger position without Saddam there. At the same time, we've seen it made very clear that Iran is having some serious internal "issues" of their own. They're not going to last much longer as the Iran we've known for the last 30+ years.

[TheMojoPin]

Pakistan has been a target of a lot of terrorist attacks lately

That wouldn't stop if we weren't in Afghanistan.

[Syd]

If we had a viable war plan the first time around which would have wiped out Al-Qa'ida and the Taliban, instead of letting them cross over into Pakistan so they could regroup, we may not be in this clusterfuck right now.

There's no viable war plan for Afghanistan -- the place where the Taliban occupy are some of the most inhospitable places on earth. There are no military tactics whatsoever to deal with the population in that region. The closest thing to success is to simply pay the Taliban to not attack. The only war plan for Afghanistan is to avoid it, or resurrect Josiah Harlan and hope he can work his magic.

[TheMojoPin]

The biggest "woulda coulda shoulda" in all this is the question of how this would have gone down if Massoud hadn't been killed on 9/9.

[red_red_red]

The past few months have been the most deadly for the military.
cuz that's what fucking matters all of a sudden, right?

[Suspect Chin]

I supported the war from the beginning. I stood by Bush for most of his presidency. I've been a War Hawk for eight years now. I was the guy who said, "We can't just pull out, it would be too disastrous." I even probably said "Fight them there now or fight them here later" at one point.

But I am so sick of all money and lives being wasted in that region that I am finally ready to just say pull the fuck out immediately and get our own country back in order. I am ready to admit that I was wrong.

[Serpico1103]

The past few months have been the most deadly for the military. As far as Iraq theres still the Sunni/Shi'a factor. Iraq is about 60 Shia and Iran is almost all Shia

Pakistan has been a target of a lot of terrorist attacks lately

Here is a little advice for politicians. "Don't start wars you aren't willing to have soldiers die for."

[SonOfSmeagol]

"So I want the American people to understand that we have a clear and focused goal: to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the future. That's the goal that must be achieved. That is a cause that could not be more just. And to the terrorists who oppose us, my message is the same: We will defeat you."


BHO, March 27, 2009. I've posted the link to the full, extensive, text of his remarks that day before and I could not agree more with pretty much all of it. I still await his actions.

[Serpico1103]

"So I want the American people to understand that we have a clear and focused goal: to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the future. That's the goal that must be achieved. That is a cause that could not be more just. And to the terrorists who oppose us, my message is the same: We will defeat you."


BHO, March 27, 2009. I've posted the link to the full, extensive, text of his remarks that day before and I could not agree more with pretty much all of it. I still await his actions.

Unfortunately, you don't stop terrorists with war.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Unfortunately, you don't stop terrorists with war.

And as our friend bho clearly said in March, as our other leaders said before after hard lessons learned, war is not the only element of the strategy in this specific case . And still he waits.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

cuz that's what fucking matters all of a sudden, right?




ITS ALWAYS FUCKING MATTERED!!!!

Look at the pace of the deaths as well as no clear fucking mission there!!!!!!!

[hanso]

I am dead fast against both wars.
The last administration lowered taxes at times of war.
The first in history to do so. Which helped lead to the hard fix we have been under.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Strong possibility that more will be going

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/78516.html

[A.J.]

To a point. There's only so much they can do with us right next door. If we just up and took our shit and went home, yes, they''d definitely be a stronger position without Saddam there. At the same time, we've seen it made very clear that Iran is having some serious internal "issues" of their own. They're not going to last much longer as the Iran we've known for the last 30+ years.

Inshallah.

[A.J.]

The biggest "woulda coulda shoulda" in all this is the question of how this would have gone down if Massoud hadn't been killed on 9/9.

This.

[A.J.]

Here is a little advice for politicians. "Don't start wars you aren't willing to have soldiers die for."

Good point. The original war plan was too neat, quick and incomplete. Just like in Iraq.

Wars aren't won that way -- never have been.

[TheMojoPin]

Inshallah.

It's gonna be a velvet revolution in more ways than one. Look how sexy those Persian hipster kids are!

[Serpico1103]

I am dead fast against both wars.
The last administration lowered taxes at times of war.
The first in history to do so. Which helped lead to the hard fix we have been under.

That is the embarrassing part.
People actually thought that paying the government less money while fighting two wars would somehow work out.
My Grandmother still doesn't put sugar in her coffee because during WWII they rationed sugar. She lost the taste for it and hasn't started again. That is a tiny sacrifice, one of many, they made during a real war. Now, people want more comfort during a time of war.
We really are spoiled brats.

[red_red_red]

ITS ALWAYS FUCKING MATTERED!!!!

Look at the pace of the deaths as well as no clear fucking mission there!!!!!!!
war is not for people of weak constitution, it's so fucking easy to be outraged from the sidelines

[hanso]

That is the embarrassing part.
People actually thought that paying the government less money while fighting two wars would somehow work out.
My Grandmother still doesn't put sugar in her coffee because during WWII they rationed sugar. She lost the taste for it and hasn't started again. That is a tiny sacrifice, one of many, they made during a real war. Now, people want more comfort during a time of war.
We really are spoiled brats.

When I think of the tax cuts made . It reminds me rationing during WW2.
That was back when we made stuff. And trade was on our side. I think that the costs of these wars has past that of WW2.
All the more reason to end them now.

[Willmore]

US Defense Budget Fiscal 2009: 515.4 billion $.

Russian Defense Budget 2009: 39.4 billion $.

China Defense Budget 2009: 70 billion $.


Who the fuck are we protecting ourselves from?

[underdog]

US Defense Budget Fiscal 2009: 515.4 billion $.

Russian Defense Budget 2009: 39.4 billion $.

China Defense Budget 2009: 70 billion $.


Who the fuck are we protecting ourselves from?

Haliburton.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

When I think of the tax cuts made . It reminds me rationing during WW2.
That was back when we made stuff. And trade was on our side. I think that the costs of these wars has past that of WW2.
All the more reason to end them now.

When about 0.002% of our population is fighting it really has no effect on us. I will gladly pay more taxes if it actually went to the war effort. If there had to be rationing, im all for it

[A.J.]

Interesting viewpoint.

Soviet commander: U.S. faces similar Afghan fate (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/01/afghanistan.soviet.lessons/index.html)

[TheMojoPin]

Interesting viewpoint.

Soviet commander: U.S. faces similar Afghan fate (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/01/afghanistan.soviet.lessons/index.html)

You say "interesting;" I say "AH-DOY."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama Channeling Dubya


http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-december-2-2009/30-000

[hanso]

No end game they say?
It's called GTFO.

[high fly]

"For the past few months?"

Afghanistan has been the mess it's been for about 5 years now.



Nuh -uh.
Everything was going just fine until January 21, 2009....

[high fly]

If we had a viable war plan the first time around which would have wiped out Al-Qa'ida and the Taliban, instead of letting them cross over into Pakistan so they could regroup, we may not be in this clusterfuck right now.

I'm really torn on this issue. Part of me is loathe to cut and run on these people again since the last time we did that, it fostered the rise of extremism and the recruitment and training of jihadists. On the other hand, if we stay, it will seem like we are occupying Crusaders: which will continue the foster the rise of extremism and the recruitment and training of jihadists. Nice Catch-22.

If it were at all possible, I would like to see if the President could persuade some the stronger Arab powers (Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia) to form an Arab peace-keeping coalition there to replace us and NATO: such as the one that was half-heartedly proposed for Iraq a few years ago. We could sell it by telling them it would give them prestige as important regional players and they would also be close enough to help to keep Iran in check.

To just bail would be a nightmare for the region as a whole.


I'm with you on this one, AJ.
There are only bad answers.
Besides failing to dog the escape hatches, we allowed the warlords to assume local power again. Then we installed a government the people will not support.
Imperial Hubris is good on this one. I'll see if I can dig up some quotes. Sorry, a couple of them are long, but they're good..



“We do not know what sort of human being with sound wisdom and conscience would consider people rulers of a country whose personal security is also maintained by foreigners – who cannot trust any of their compatriots in the entire country and cannot find any force inside the country to keep them safe inside their own palace; those who go to their own province and to their countrymen under the protection of American commandos, and even then they are attacked.”
- warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, in an open letter printed in an Afghan newspaper, Imperial Hubris, by Michael Scheuer, p. 48-49

[high fly]

“Since the United States did no homework on the Northern Alliance, it is not surprising that the Pashtun leaders America welded to the now Fahim-led Alliance to form a “broad-based” interim regime amounted to more dead weight and are, indeed, the kiss of death. In most ways, U.S. officials repeated the same failure they engineered in Afghanistan between 1989 and 1992, when U.S., UN, and other Western diplomats tried to construct a broad-based government meaning non-Islamist – to replace the Soviet-Afghan communist regime. The purpose of that attempt was – as is today’s – to allow the barest minimum of participation in the new regime by the mujahideen, the uncouth, violent, devout, and bearded men who had won the war. Having banished these unwashed, medieval Islamists to the periphery of politics, the diplomats intended to give the bulk of the new government’s posts and power to people more like themselves: secularized Afghans; westernized Afghans who refused to fight for their country and spent a comfortable, self-imposed exile in Europe, India, or the United States; technocrats who had worked for the Soviet and Afghan communists; tribal leaders who had emigrated to preside over refugee camps in Pakistan or Iran and avoid being shot at; the deposed Rome-based Afghan king, his effete, Italianate entourage, and their Gucci-suited “field commanders” who never fired a shot - and even Najibullah, the head butcher of the just-defeated Afghan communist regime. As always for western diplomats, a smattering of English or French, and shared an aggressive contempt for religion, were preferable as rulers to the hirsute men wearing funny looking pajama-style clothes who had merely fought and defeated a mass-murdering, superpower enemy in a ten-year war. Style over credibility every time.
Flash ahead a decade and this scenario repeats itself with a new, more ludicrous twist. This time out, the same U.S., Western, and UN diplomats intend to create an interim government from an even less credible crowd, again proving their infallibility to pick losers.....
....With no Islamist credentials and minimal tribal support the India-educated Karzai was and is a man clearly adept and comfortable hobnobbing with U.S. and British elites, but far less so at chewing sinewy goat taken by hand from a common bowl with an assembly of grimy-fingered Islamist insurgent and tribal leaders and their field commanders. Fixing Karzai as chief of the transitional administration via a UN-run and U.S.-manipulated conference held in Bonn, Germany – another sure disqualifier for the xenophobic Afghans – we then liberally salted the new regime with well-educated, detribalized, and minimally Islamic Afghan expatriates who had been waiting in the wings in the West since the early 1990s for a prize they wanted but for which they would not risk life and limb. We then enlisted tribal warlords such as Hazrat Ali in Nangarhar Province, Pacha Khan Zadran in Khowst Province, and Moham Medshirzai in Qandahar Province to provide Karzai with military muscle in regions where the Pashtun tribes were politically and demographically dominant.
This is not a winning lineup. While Karzai and his expatriate assistants shivered in cold, dark, and bankrupt Kabul, the warlords depended on the forces of the U.S.-led coalition for support because their supposed muscle was nowhere to be found. Having ignored the foregoing checkables, the West quickly discovered that these warlords had been in exile or under domestic subordination not because they disagreed with the Taliban but because they had failed to provide leadership and security when they ruled Afghanistan before the Taliban arose( they then specialized in banditry and heroin trafficking ), had little support inside the country, and were afraid of Taleban and al Qaeda forces.
Thus the government the West installed in Kabul in early 2002 was missing every component that might have given it a slim chance to survive without long-term propping-up by non-Islamic, foreign bayonets.” - Imperial Hubris, p. 38-40

[high fly]

“The U.S. approach to Afghanistan must be judged one that is suffused with arrogance. Knowing nothing of what we were getting into, we staged a mighty air attack followed by a dainty ground war that limited U.S. casualties but allowed most of the enemy to go home with their guns. We next installed a regime in Kabul with no credible members from the largest Afghan ethnic group – from which Afghan rulers historically come – and assigned it the task of pushing a Westernized political agenda unacceptable to the Afghans’ tribal traditions and offensive to Islam. ( This will sound familiar to those watching developments in Iraq.) In sum, our policies and actions in Afghanistan have marginally reduced the mobility there of al Qaeda and the Taleban, have reinvigorated a broad, popular, and predictable xenophobia toward foreign occupation – even among the late Masood’s men, the bulk of Karzai’s military, who will not trade Russian for U.S. masters – and have insured the United States must soon decide whether to exponentially increase its military presence and wage a destructive nationwide war, or tuck its tail and skedaddle for home a la Vietnam and Somalia. As matters stand, bin Laden, Mullah Omar, and their Gulf benefactors need expend only patience and the modest costs of insurgency to make America pay the extraordinary high price that, sadly, is the merited wages of arrogance and willful ignorance.”
- Imperial Hubris, p. 202-203

As a people, Americans have a heritage to be proud of and one that is worth defending with their children’s lives. It is not, however, a heritage whose experiences, heroes, wars, scandals, sacrifices, victories, mistakes, and villains can be condensed, loaded on a CD-ROM, and given to non-Americans with an expectation that they will quickly, and at little expense, become just like us. This is a debilitating fantasy of how the rest of the world and its peoples live and work. Far worse, it shows a profound ignorance of America, one that mocks those who fought and died resisting tyrannical monarchies and churches, secession, foreign rule, slavery, segregation, discrimination, the union of church and state, and a thousand other issues for which blood was shed to fuel the incremental but still incomplete perfecting of American democracy.”
- Imperial Hubris, p. 205

[A.J.]

You say "interesting;" I say "AH-DOY."

I wonder how you say that in Russian.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is why hacks like Olbermann can't be taken seriously. If he would have made his main point about leaving Afghanistan the focus it would have some credibility, but once again his ramblings like Boehners fake suntan prove that hes a joke

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/

[hanso]

He was none too pleased after the speech.

[SonOfSmeagol]

I'm with you on this one, AJ.
There are only bad answers.
Besides failing to dog the escape hatches, we allowed the warlords to assume local power again. Then we installed a government the people will not support.
Imperial Hubris is good on this one. I'll see if I can dig up some quotes. Sorry, a couple of them are long, but they're good..


Is this the same guy that wrote this:
Americans should be clear on what Obama has done. In a breathtaking display of self-righteousness and intellectual arrogance, the president told Americans that his personal beliefs are more important than protecting their country, their homes and their families. The interrogation techniques in question, the president asserted, are a sign that Americans have lost their "moral compass," a compliment similar to Attorney General Eric Holder's identifying them as "moral cowards." … is it moral for the president of the United States to abandon intelligence tools that have saved the lives and property of Americans and their allies in favor of his own ideological beliefs?

Say It's Osama. What If He Won't Talk? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042403459.html)

This guy seems to be a master spectator and an equal opportunity (politically speaking) alarmist pontificator – did he actually ever DO anything of note when he was in a position to do so within CIA, or does he have nothing to offer but excuses?

[Crispy123]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57357618/u.s-marines-to-probe-alleged-urination-video/
<embed src="http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/cbsnews_player_embed.swf" scale="noscale" salign="lt" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" background="#333333" width="425" height="279" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" FlashVars="si=254&&contentValue=50118184&shareUrl=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57357618/u.s-marines-to-probe-alleged-urination-video/" />

The U.S. Marine Corps has vowed a full investigation into video posted online which purportedly shows Marines urinating on the dead bodies of Taliban militants in Afghanistan.

CBS News national security correspondent David Martin says if it turns out to be authentic, those involved could face court martial proceedings for violating U.S. military rules which specifically forbid "photographing or filming... human casualties" - regardless of whether the Americans were actually urinating.

Martin says the U.S. military has told CBS News the Marines seen in the video are no longer in Afghanistan, raising a question about how old the clip may be.

These Marines obviously believe that humans are divine creations and the urine that our bodies produces is holy. They were simply BLESSING the dead terrorist scumbags. America is about religious freedom and these are freedom fighters. OORAH Marine Corps!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Embassy burnings in 3....2......1.....

[Crispy123]

Whoever filmed this sure did film human casualties and if it that is a crime, they broke it. But accusing the Marines of desecration, I have a really hard time with.

Wordnet defines desecration as : desecration- blasphemy, sacrilege (blasphemous behavior; the act of depriving something of its sacred character)

Islamic extremists are fighting a religious war where suicide bombing is an accepted practice, their religion actually views suicide bombing as a holy act. Therefore, they do not view the human body as a sacred vessel. Ergo, pissing on a dead Taliban body does not constitute desecration.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Already Panetta and Hillary are speaking as if they committed a major war crime.

After Abu Ghraib Marines should have used better judgement , these days in a combat zone the cameras are always rolling. Everything gets leaked and released. However their careers should not be ruined but they will probably face a general court martial. Some of those Marines might have been Bronze Star w/Combat V or Silver star recipients. Something like this would have been a page 11 entry (For those who were not Marines, thats an entry in your serivce record book of a reprimand but not a court martial)


As far as this being a recruitment tool. No sane moderate Muslim will all of a sudden become a Jihadist after this event. However, this just gives the lunatic fringe Muslims an excuse to carry out violence

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If someone thought this was such a big controversy, it could have been handled by their C.O.

[Crispy123]

If someone thought this was such a big controversy, it could have been handled by their C.O.

I agree.

Stupid? Yes. War crime or national outrage? No.

[PapaBear]

If someone thought this was such a big controversy, it could have been handled by their C.O.
They just identified two of the Marines today (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-16538159), so a C.O. couldn't have handled it.
I agree.

Stupid? Yes. War crime or national outrage? No.
It's not a war crime, but the Marines do not allow "trophy images" of dead bodies.

As for outrage, it looks like the Taliban is more interested in saving themselves at this point, than getting revenge for this video.

Taliban say Marine tape won't hurt Afghanistan talks (http://news.yahoo.com/taliban-marine-tape-wont-hurt-afghanistan-talks-020101467.html)


A video showing what appears to be American forces urinating on dead Taliban fighters prompted anger in Afghanistan and promises of a U.S. investigation on Thursday but the insurgent group said it would not harm nascent efforts to broker peace talks.

Despite concerns when the video emerged that it would not help efforts to build confidence among the warring parties, a Taliban spokesman said although the images were shocking, the tape would not affect talks or a possible prisoner release.
"We know that our country is occupied," he said. "This is not a political process, so the video will not harm our talks and prisoner exchange because they are at the preliminary stage."

[StanUpshaw]

Pissing on a corpse: War Crime

Killing the guy in the first place: Thanks for protecting my freedom, Mr. Armyman!


:wallbash:

[PapaBear]

Who the FUCK has called this a "war crime"? The first time the term showed up was when WF said "as if they committed a major war crime". You guys sound like the the people who claim there are actually people who "criticize Tim Tebow for being Christian"!:wallbash:

[StanUpshaw]

What I'm getting at is that no one seems to care that lives are being ended in their name. The fact that your tax dollars just helped kill a man is never mentioned.

The fact that you're quibbling over fucking terminology sorta proves my point.

[PapaBear]

What I'm getting at is that no one seems to care that lives are being ended in their name. The fact that your tax dollars just helped kill a man is never mentioned.

The fact that you're quibbling over fucking terminology sorta proves my point.
The story is about Marines who broke US Military law, while giving people who hate us, more reason to hate us. I'm glad our tax dollars helped kill a man who (most likely) needed to be killed to advance the mission that those Marines were sent there to do. I'm not quibbling over terminology. I'm pointing out that WF, and people like him, like to bitch about the whole "false outrage" concept, when THEY are the ones creating false outrage about false outrage that doesn't even fucking exist!

[StanUpshaw]

If there truly isn't outrage over this, then the character of the American populace is even more despicable than I had imagined.

[PapaBear]

If there truly isn't outrage over this, then the character of the American populace is even more despicable than I had imagined.
That's a valid opinion to have about the act on the video. My point has nothing to do with what happened in the video. It was to show how ridiculous WF's post about the story was. He tried to make it look like Liberals were blowing the incident far out of proportion.

We always hear how Marines act in a standard that is beyond reproach. These Marines didn't live up to that standard. But no one... NO ONE... has ever portrayed this as being a war crime.

[Crispy123]

The stupid part was filming it. And the Marines should get in trouble over it. Not kicked out, not lose a stripe or pay, but disciplined.

If we are sending our Marines into places and they are NOT there to kill people, then we need to send them HOME and cut the DOD budget.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who the FUCK has called this a "war crime"? The first time the term showed up was when WF said "as if they committed a major war crime". You guys sound like the the people who claim there are actually people who "criticize Tim Tebow for being Christian"!:wallbash:

Panetta and Hillary are characterizing this as a war crime

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/9011075/US-defence-secretary-Leon-Panetta-condemns-utterly-deplorable-behaviour-of-US-Marine-urination-video.html


When he wants them prosecuted to the fullest extent, this isnt just talking about losing a stripe or 14 days extra duty and restriction, he wants a dishonorable discharge and Leavenworth in their future.


When I made that comment , I was using sarcasm. Bad judgement ? yes but not something where these Marines should lose everything over.


Fuck Afghanistan, we should have been out years ago

[Dude!]

boys will be boys.....
this is much ado about nothing

the only mistake was filming it
and not shitting on them too

[spoon]

boys will be boys.....
this is much ado about nothing

the only mistake was filming it
and not shitting on them too

While Stan's point is solid, dudes!'s idiocy has reached new heights.

[Dude!]

While Stan's point is solid, dudes!'s idiocy has reached new heights.

like you've never pissed on guys

[WRESTLINGFAN]

2 US Troops killed over Koran burning

Fuck the Afghans, If they want to remain in the 7th Century let them. Why should our men be fodder for them?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57383415/afghan-solider-kills-2-u.s-troops/?tag=breakingnews

[A.J.]

2 US Troops killed over Koran burning

I'd love to hear about this from that idiot preacher in Florida.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Instead of these hack politicians on both sides who keep shitting on Ron Paul, maybe they should listen to him.

No matter how much we try to impose some western style democracy on these ultra religious countries its never going to work. Afghans want to live in the 12th century. If it works for them then let it go already. A freedom movement needs to be organic. No outside power no matter how great the military force is.

[Crispy123]

Instead of these hack politicians on both sides who keep shitting on Ron Paul, maybe they should listen to him.


They seem to be increasing the hypocrisy and racism. So, you know, maybe they are listening to him?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They seem to be increasing the hypocrisy and racism. So, you know, maybe they are listening to him?

Both sides have a lust for killing brown people

[Crispy123]

Both sides have a lust for killing brown people

today is Thursday.

[sailor]

Is it 7th or 12th? You're very confusing.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Is it 7th or 12th? You're very confusing.

I'll just say the dark ages going forward

[sailor]

I'll just say the dark ages going forward

Racist.

[Earlshog]

2 US Troops killed over Koran burning

Fuck the Afghans, If they want to remain in the 7th Century let them. Why should our men be fodder for them?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57383415/afghan-solider-kills-2-u.s-troops/?tag=breakingnews

I agree with WF... It's such a rare occurrence I just had to quote.:happy:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I agree with WF... It's such a rare occurrence I just had to quote.:happy:

I'll take what I can get

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It is pathetic that religion controls peoples minds so much that they go insane over a burning of a book or some silly cartoon.


Same goes for the fundamentalist evangelicals when they bomb abortion clinics.


However the insanity comes more form the fringe Muslims

Im not going to harp on Obama for apologizing, Bush did it all the time, but what does an apology do? Theyre not going to say aww shucks no harm done

[Earlshog]

It is pathetic that religion controls peoples minds so much that they go insane over a burning of a book or some silly cartoon.


Same goes for the fundamentalist evangelicals when they bomb abortion clinics.


However the insanity comes more form the fringe Muslims

Im not going to harp on Obama for apologizing, Bush did it all the time, but what does an apology do? Theyre not going to say aww shucks no harm done

Apologetic is how a civilized society should behave in light of situation such as this. You admit you fucked up you own up to it, apologize, and move on. It's not going to mean anything to the nut case savages, they will behave as they do regardless. The apology is intended for those evolved enough to be engaged in civil discourse.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Apologetic is how a civilized society should behave in light of situation such as this. You admit you fucked up you own up to it, apologize, and move on. It's not going to mean anything to the nut case savages, they will behave as they do regardless. The apology is intended for those evolved enough to be engaged in civil discourse.

I dont disagree but in Afghanistans case, the nutjobs drown out anyone who is moderate.
No matter what we are fucked if we apologize or not.



Over 100 billion a year annually pissed away just to try to build up a society who doesnt want to live in the modern world

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Racist Afghans

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/president-obama-apologizes-koran-burnings-article-1.1027483


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1027482.1330010889!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg

[Earlshog]

I dont disagree but in Afghanistans case, the nutjobs drown out anyone who is moderate.
No matter what we are fucked if we apologize or not.



Over 100 billion a year annually pissed away just to try to build up a society who doesnt want to live in the modern world

I think of it as an apology to muslins in general not just the ones in Afghanistan

Totally agree, waste of money, time, resources, and most importantly lives. Hopefully it wasn't "all for not" and lesson's have been learned for how we engage in conflicts going forward (doubtful but we can hope.)

[Earlshog]

Racist Afghans

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/president-obama-apologizes-koran-burnings-article-1.1027483


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1027482.1330010889!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg

Afgans caricatures stink!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think of it as an apology to muslins in general not just the ones in Afghanistan

Totally agree, waste of money, time, resources, and most importantly lives. Hopefully it wasn't "all for not" and lesson's have been learned for how we engage in conflicts going forward (doubtful but we can hope.)

I wish I had your optimism.


Scary to think at this moment. The NEO CONS are salivating at any opportunity to attack Iran

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Afgans caricatures stink!

The Iranians were much better at it

[StanUpshaw]

Afgans caricatures stink!

Effigy mooseknuckle.





My band in high school was called Effigy Mooseknuckle.

[A.J.]

Scary to think at this moment. The NEO CONS are salivating at any opportunity to attack Iran

So is this administration.

[Earlshog]

So is this administration.

I disagree, if anything this administration is exhausting all diplomatic option. They have even gone out of the way to back Israel down.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The administration might cave into AIPAC

[Jujubees2]

The administration might cave into AIPAC

Isn't that the syrup you're suppose to take to make yourself vomit?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

2 More US Troops shot execution style this past weekend by an Afghan gov't official


How backwards can people be to get riled over up about a few hundred pieces of paper being burned?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Think the burning of some pieces of paper were bad?


http://news.yahoo.com/afghan-president-american-kills-16-shooting-144822834.html

[cougarjake13]

Do they have proof a us soldier did it or are we just taking their word for it

[Dude!]

Think the burning of some pieces of paper were bad?


http://news.yahoo.com/afghan-president-american-kills-16-shooting-144822834.html

this is Obama's
My Lai Massacre
but of course he'll get
a free ride

imagine if this had happened
under Bush

[StanUpshaw]

this is Obama's
My Lai Massacre
but of course he'll get
a free ride

imagine if this had happened
under Bush

I'm sure it did. I'm sure it's happened many, many times.

You, your friends, your neighbors, your countrymen simply choose to ignore the slaughter being perpetrated in your name. (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-kill-team-20110327)

[high fly]

this is Obama's
My Lai Massacre
but of course he'll get
a free ride

imagine if this had happened
under Bush

The easy reply is to recite the lesson many of us learned as children:
Just because Little Johnny down the street jumps off the roof, it doesn't mean YOU have to jump off the roof.

But to toy with your point,
If it had, blame would be easily swatted away if there was no connection to what someone in the field did to Bush.
Abu Ghraib, for example, was caused in large part to policies adopted by Bush's Department of Defense, including the whitewash of now-Representative Alan West's abuse of a prisoner. Those charged at Abu Ghraib said they saw the coverup by high-ranking brass of the colonel and believed they were being given a green light to do the same. The overall policy of the administration was to allow, and excuse abuse and torture of prisoners.
It has not been the policy of the Obama administration to encourage this sort of thing.
Indeed, Petraeus has made a point of his commanders reading David Galula, on counterinsurgency warfare.

[Crispy123]

It has not been the policy of the Obama administration to encourage this sort of thing. Indeed, Petraeus has made a point of his commanders reading David Galula, on counterinsurgency warfare.

When we send soldiers into war this type of shit is going to happen. The administration doesn't really matter other than the fact that they can end the fucking thing. War and human nature can be a real bitch sometimes. That Rolling Stone article Stan posted is sickening.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Jeremy Scahill hardly someone on the right has reported that torture has still been committed under the Obama administration. Practices includes breaking bones, pouring chemicals on them and beating prisoners senseless.


Meet the new boss same as the old boss

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Over 500 Billion spent and Afghanistan is a lost cause

[high fly]

Jeremy Scahill hardly someone on the right has reported that torture has still been committed under the Obama administration. Practices includes breaking bones, pouring chemicals on them and beating prisoners senseless.


I have not seen the story. If it is true, is is damnable.
The administration policy has been to end torture and abuse of prisoners.
The legal basis on which the Bush interrogation policy was based were all rescinded, making those who do such things open for prosecution.
Under Bush, torture and abuse were policies for which legal opinions were sought from the OLC to support those practices.
Torture and abuse of prisoners is not official policy under President Obama with legal opinions providing cover.

Besides being illegal, torture and abuse of prisoners is contrary to principles established during the American Revolution. Those practices are unAmerican, immoral and are not effective ways to obtain accurate information. Through history, humane interrogation techniques have been extremely successful when used by professionals in the field. I have done a considerable amount of research on the topic and have found over 60 professional career interrogators in the military, FBI, CIA and foreign intelligence services who spoke on the subject and they were unanimous in their opposition.
What the Bush administration implemented were techniques used on Americans held prisoner during the Korean War. The results of those methods were to obtain false confessions, not accurate, actionable intelligence.

[high fly]

2 More US Troops shot execution style this past weekend by an Afghan gov't official


How backwards can people be to get riled over up about a few hundred pieces of paper being burned?

It is "backwards" to apply Western standards to a foreign culture and expect to understand it through that lens.
Our society is so modern people get killed over a pair of tennis shoes.

If America was occupied by foreign troops trying to impose a government dreamed up in Germany; who were trying to force us to conform to customs foreign to American culture I might want to shoot a few of them myself.
Of course there would be some Americans who would not object to foreign occupation and would not resist.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It is "backwards" to apply Western standards to a foreign culture and expect to understand it through that lens.
Our society is so modern people get killed over a pair of tennis shoes.

If America was occupied by foreign troops trying to impose a government dreamed up in Germany; who were trying to force us to conform to customs foreign to American culture I might want to shoot a few of them myself.
Of course there would be some Americans who would not object to foreign occupation and would not resist.

It is backwards when religion is the driving force there. Also Beating each other up over sneakers here isnt accepted and it is punishable. Its not the everyday norm


We shouldnt be forcing our way of life on the Afghans. If they want to live like that let them, we shouldnt continue to pour billions of dollars and contnue to sacrifice American lives for people who want to remain stuck in a place where religion dominates everything

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Scahill writes for the nation magazine which is a progressive publication. He's been the only one to call out this administration for continuing the bush era policies of torture, rendition and black sites.

[A.J.]

The administration might cave into AIPAC

Which one doesn't?

[high fly]

It is backwards when religion is the driving force there. Also Beating each other up over sneakers here isnt accepted and it is punishable. Its not the everyday norm


We shouldnt be forcing our way of life on the Afghans. If they want to live like that let them, we shouldnt continue to pour billions of dollars and contnue to sacrifice American lives for people who want to remain stuck in a place where religion dominates everything

I agree. Somewhere I have an editorial I saved either from John Keegan or frederick Kagan, published a fgew weeks after 9/11. He said we should go into Afghanistan to get the bad guys and then leave. But nooooo, they had to go and announce a "Marshall Plan for Afghanistan". Scheuer pretty much predicted what followed in one of the first chapters of his book, Imperial Hubris.
As for religion being dominant, take a look around.
In Afghanistan, the Taliban was incapable of running the country, but one major reason they still attract appeal is they rooted out corruption and lived as the common people when they were in charge.

The Obama administration did not continue the official policy of state-sponsored torture and abuse of prisoners in interrogation. I glanced at one of the articles by the author mentioned and it appeared to be about heavy-handed tactics of prison guards deasling with unruly prisoners. If they overreacted, it is damnable.
It is not official policy to do so.
The legal opinions by Yoo and Bybee were rescinded. It was in all the papers, sorry you missed it.
As for rendition, some have been good, some bad. For example, we rendered people here who were involved in the '98 embassy bombings as well as Mir Aimal Kansi.
The black site prisons were shut down by Bush and the prisoners sent here.
The author mentioned funding of some prison in Africa and to suggest we are sending the likes of Khalid Sheik Mohammed there to be tortured is not something I have come across. I have an open mind as to whether the reporting is accurate and whether the reactions are exaggerated. One would think if true as you describe, the rest of the media would be following up. That is what they do, conspiracy theories notwithstanding....

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Having 100K men to fight a guerrilla war is continuing The Bush insanity


If the war was conducted correctly from the beginning with limited special forces and not a huge land Army and Marines we would have saved hundreds of lives and countless amount of tax dollars.

[high fly]

Having 100K men to fight a guerrilla war is continuing The Bush insanity


If the war was conducted correctly from the beginning with limited special forces and not a huge land Army and Marines we would have saved hundreds of lives and countless amount of tax dollars.


Similar thinking was employed when we first went in. The administration was adamant about repeating the large-scale Soviet invasion, but they took it too far. They denied the use of batallions of the 25th Mountain Division and U.S. Marines who were there, idle; to cut off the escape from Tora Bora. Both the CIA and Special Forces commanders on the scene requested these troops but were denied.
It was not until March 2002 that we conducted batallion-sized operations at Shahi Kowt, where, for the first time since 1942, American troops were sent into battle without artillery support and minimal air support.
There was a middle ground between a massive invasion and the idea of sending the least troops possible into combat.
Further self-defeating meddling came when aerial surveillance platforms detected fleeing al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in the mountains and air strikes were requested. Those requests were turned down stateside. The thinking was they may have identified shepherds and their flocks at 10,000 feet in the middle of winter trudging through the snow.

Here are some fine first-hand accounts:
FIRST IN An Insider’s Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror, by Gary C. Schroen, (Presidio Press, 2005)
NOT A GOOD DAY TO DIE The Untold Story of Operation Anaconda, by Sean Naylor, (Berkley, 2005)
JAWBREAKER The Attack on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda: A Personal Account by the CIA’s Key Field Commander, by Gary Berntsen and Ralf Pezzullo (Crown, 2005)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know in the beginning , the US was working with the northern alliance. I heard reports that they werent the most reliable and we were just paying them off. Also many of the GITMO detainees were just people the N.A. said were Taliban and Al Qaeda without any proof, was that mostly the case?

[Dude!]

attack on Leon Panetta:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4194498/Suicide-attack-bid-on-US-Defence-Secretary.html

we need to cut and run
out of that hell-hole...NOW
and just complete our
missle defense for when
Pakistan falls and the nukes
start flying

[Dan 'Hampton]

That undoubtably was the worst worded "newspaper" article. Even by uk standards that was amateur.

[A.J.]

They spelled "Defense" wrong and everything!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Bad looking women, bad food, bad spelling

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They should send the Obama flag to Kabul so the Afghans can burn it


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/lake/os-barack-obama-flag-face-20120313,0,7169871.story

[Dan 'Hampton]

The grammar is however perfect for the hayseeds who linked to this off of drudge.

[Dude!]

The grammar is however perfect for the hayseeds who linked to this off of drudge.

i see you read drudge
faithfully

[Gutter]

i see you read drudge
faithfully

I saw that you posted this line in the ispy and was wondering how you were going to separate such a short sentence so it's posted in the styling of "out of breath Malcolm in the Middle wheelchair kid". Now I know. Carry on.

[keithy_19]

I saw that you posted this line in the ispy and was wondering how you were going to separate such a short sentence so it's posted in the styling of "out of breath Malcolm in the Middle wheelchair kid". Now I know. Carry on.

I forgot about that kid.

That's all I have to add to this.

[Dan 'Hampton]

i see you read drudge
faithfully

You posted the link Wheezy. Who reads any article out of Britain that isn't from the bbc?

[StanUpshaw]

You posted the link Wheezy. Who reads any article out of Britain that isn't from the bbc?

Because this is 1998 and the only news aggregator that exists on the internet is Drudge.

[high fly]

They spelled "Defense" wrong and everything!



They don't even pronounce the 'r' in the word "world."

[Crispy123]

Because this is 1998 and the only news aggregator that exists on the internet is Drudge.

It's actually 2012 and a lot of people are using RSS feeds now.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Would the Afghans get offended if the Koran was downloaded onto CD's and copies were burned?

[high fly]

I know in the beginning , the US was working with the northern alliance. I heard reports that they werent the most reliable and we were just paying them off. Also many of the GITMO detainees were just people the N.A. said were Taliban and Al Qaeda without any proof, was that mostly the case?

To begin with your last point, we went in offering bounties to dirt-poor people for Taliban or al Qaedas. In many cases what the Afghans did was turn in business or personal rivals. Task Force 500, referenced, above, gives a very good picture of how, once they were in the system, it was very difficult to turn them loose. No one wanted responsibility for letting a bad guy go free, so they just packed them off to another prison or on to Guantanamo to let someone else sort it out.

What the Norther Alliance had going for it was they were anti-Taliban. They were not really good guys. Intelligence had them in the drug trade and had documented other nefarious conduct. The NA was also composed of Tajiks and Uzbeks, who are minorities in the country and could never hope to rule the place. By 9/11, they had been pushed back into a relatively small corner of the country. One of their major warlords, Dostum, was widely hated for doing things like running over bound prisoners with tanks.
When we really began to go after bin Laden in the late 90s, we had to go to the NA for local help to get him. We sent in a few CIA guys with communications gear, money and other supplies for the NA. They gave us some intelligence in return.
In circa 1993-94, we trained a team of Pashtuns to go after Mir Aimal Kansi. They were reactivated a few years later to pursue bin Laden.

The books I referenced, as well as Steve Coll's Ghost Wars are excellent sources to get a better understanding of what was going on, the crappy hand we had to play, and the various groups we worked with.

[high fly]

The following quotes are taken from IMPERIAL HUBRIS, by Anonymous (Michael Scheuer), (Brassey’s, 2004). Scheuer was the chief of the Osama bin Laden station at the CIA from 1996-1999.He wrote another good book that is very similar called THROUGH OUR ENEMIES’ EYES Osama bin Laden, Radical Islam, and the Future of America, Revised Edition, by Michael Scheuer, (Potomac Books Inc., 2006). I have the revised edition, the first edition came out before 9/11.

“The Russians, moreover, foolishly did not try to punish rogue Afghans, as [Britain’s Lord] Roberts did, but to rule the country. Since Afghanistan is ungovernable, the failure of their effort was predictable... America should not seek to change the regime, but simply to find and kill terrorists.”
- John Keegan, Sept. 24, 2001; quoted in IMPERIAL HUBRIS, p. 21

“In both Afghanistan and Iraq we have won the war, but we stand in danger of losing what we won because our foreign policy suffers from the King George Syndrome. Freedom is neither a spontaneous nor a universal aspiration. Other goods captivate the minds of other people from other lands, order, honor, and tribal loyalties being the most obvious. And because these other goods orient these people no less powerfully than freedom orients us, we are apt to be sorely surprised when people who are liberated turn to new tyrants who can assume order; to terrorists who die for the honor of their country or Islam; and to tribal warlords whose winner-take-all mentality is corrosive to the pluralism and toleration that are the very hallmarks of modern democracy...”
- Historian Joshua Mitchell, from “Not All Yearn to Be Free,” Washington Post, Aug. 20, 2003, p. B7; quoted in IMPERIAL HUBRIS, p. 203-204

“We do not know what sort of human being with sound wisdom and conscience would consider people rulers of a country whose personal security is also maintained by foreigners – who cannot trust any of their compatriots in the entire country and cannot find any force inside the country to keep them safe inside their own palace; those who go to their own province and to their countrymen under the protection of American commandos, and even then they are attacked.”
- Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, in an open letter printed in an Afghan newspaper, quoted in IMPERIAL HUBRIS, p. 48-49

[high fly]

Sorry for the length, but the following is pertinent:


“Since the United States did no homework on the Northern Alliance, it is not surprising that the Pashtun leaders America welded to the now Fahim-led Alliance to form a “broad-based” interim regime amounted to more dead weight and are, indeed, the kiss of death. In most ways, U.S. officials repeated the same failure they engineered in Afghanistan between 1989 and 1992, when U.S., UN, and other Western diplomats tried to construct a broad-based government meaning non-Islamist – to replace the Soviet-Afghan communist regime. The purpose of that attempt was – as is today’s – to allow the barest minimum of participation in the new regime by the mujahideen, the uncouth, violent, devout, and bearded men who had won the war. Having banished these unwashed, medieval Islamists to the periphery of politics, the diplomats intended to give the bulk of the new government’s posts and power to people more like themselves: secularized Afghans; westernized Afghans who refused to fight for their country and spent a comfortable, self-imposed exile in Europe, India, or the United States; technocrats who had worked for the Soviet and Afghan communists; tribal leaders who had emigrated to preside over refugee camps in Pakistan or Iran and avoid being shot at; the deposed Rome-based Afghan king, his effete, Italianate entourage, and their Gucci-suited “field commanders” who never fired a shot - and even Najibullah, the head butcher of the just-defeated Afghan communist regime. As always for western diplomats, a smattering of English or French, and shared an aggressive contempt for religion, were preferable as rulers to the hirsute men wearing funny looking pajama-style clothes who had merely fought and defeated a mass-murdering, superpower enemy in a ten-year war. Style over credibility every time.
Flash ahead a decade and this scenario repeats itself with a new, more ludicrous twist. This time out, the same U.S., Western, and UN diplomats intend to create an interim government from an even less credible crowd, again proving their infallibility to pick losers. ...
... With no Islamist credentials and minimal tribal support the India-educated Karzai was and is a man clearly adept and comfortable hobnobbing with U.S. and British elites, but far less so at chewing sinewy goat taken by hand from a common bowl with an assembly of grimy-fingered Islamist insurgent and tribal leaders and their field commanders. Fixing Karzai as chief of the transitional administration via a UN-run and U.S.-manipulated conference held in Bonn, Germany – another sure disqualifier for the xenophobic Afghans – we then liberally salted the new regime with well-educated, detribalized, and minimally Islamic Afghan expatriates who had been waiting in the wings in the West since the early 1990s for a prize they wanted but for which they would not risk life and limb. We then enlisted tribal warlords such as Hazrat Ali in Nangarhar Province, Pacha Khan Zadran in Khowst Province, and Moham Medshirzai in Qandahar Province to provide Karzai with military muscle in regions where the Pashtun tribes were politically and demographically dominant.
This is not a winning lineup. While Karzai and his expatriate assistants shivered in cold, dark, and bankrupt Kabul, the warlords depended on the forces of the U.S.-led coalition for support because their supposed muscle was nowhere to be found. Having ignored the foregoing checkables, the West quickly discovered that these warlords had been in exile or under domestic subordination not because they disagreed with the Taliban but because they had failed to provide leadership and security when they ruled Afghanistan before the Taliban arose (they then specialized in banditry and heroin trafficking), had little support inside the country, and were afraid of Taleban and al Qaeda forces.
Thus the government the West installed in Kabul in early 2002 was missing every component that might have given it a slim chance to survive without long-term propping-up by non-Islamic, foreign bayonets.”
- IMPERIAL HUBRIS, p. 38-40.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Here we go again!!!!



http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/18/11262685-us-condemns-troops-who-allegedly-posed-with-dead-suicide-bombers-in-afghanistan?lite

[A.J.]

How dare we be disrespectful to the remains of people who blew themselves up in order to kill others!

[PapaBear]

The first time I heard this story, they were called "suicide bombers". The next report said that the soldiers were making fun of the fact that they actually blew themselves up accidentally while trying to arm IED's. Not that it matters either way, but I wish the news would use terms correctly. You're not a suicide bomber if you blow yourself up setting a mine. They also miss use the term IED constantly. An IED is an improvised explosive device. Normally, it's unexploded ordinance that has been salvaged, then turned into roadside bombs. When Iran started shipping mines to Iraq years ago, the press called them IED's. The weren't IED's, because they weren't improvised. They were used the way they were designed and manufactured to be used.

[deliciousV]

Fuck the enemy! And their parts and pieces. Who cares, they're dead, people show way more disrespect for our religions than theirs, right here in our own country.

[hanso]

The first time I heard this story, they were called "suicide bombers". The next report said that the soldiers were making fun of the fact that they actually blew themselves up accidentally while trying to arm IED's. Not that it matters either way, but I wish the news would use terms correctly. You're not a suicide bomber if you blow yourself up setting a mine. They also miss use the term IUD constantly. An IED is an improvised explosive device. Normally, it's unexploded ordinance that has been salvaged, then turned into roadside bombs. When Iran started shipping mines to Iraq years ago, the press called them IED's. The weren't IED's, because they weren't improvised. They were used the way they were designed and manufactured to be used.

Blow up an IUD....hhuummm.

[PapaBear]

Blow up an IUD....hhuummm.
:wallbash:

I obviously confused "improvised explosive device" with the lesser used "improvised UN explosive device".

[A.J.]

Blow up an IUD....hhuummm.

IUDs blow up sperm.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is another event that could have been handled internally or thru the soldiers commanding officers.




Now Karzai is asking for 2 billion a year from the US. Someone needs to subsidize the poppyseed growing business

[StanUpshaw]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/op89vOw-Nf0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kokesh
www.youtube.com/user/AdamKokesh

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Maybe we should make Afghanistan the 51st state. Gonna be there another 12 years at least

[Earlshog]

Maybe we should make Afghanistan the 51st state. Gonna be there another 12 years at least

Mississippi would still ramk last haha

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No hookers in Kabul but plenty of goats for Secret service agents to service

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Tolly-Bon attacks following Obamas speech




http://news.yahoo.com/taliban-attack-afghan-capital-kills-least-7-065358957.html

[A.J.]

I'm just glad Obama's not "spiking the football" and using the bin Ladin killing for political purposes.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Biden got it wrong

Bin Laden is dead and GM is on life support

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm just glad Obama's not "spiking the football" and using the bin Ladin killing for political purposes.

Speaking of spiking the football will he do it in his mom jeans like that awful 1st pitch performance at the 2009 AS Game?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Taliban beheads 17 for having a party


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/another-afghan-soldier-attacks-kills-2-nato-troops/2012/08/27/02576fce-f026-11e1-892d-bc92fee603a7_story.html


Also in the past couple of weeks alone. Afghan security forces we are training are turning their weapons on NATO and US Troops. Sadly both Obama and Romney want to continue this clusterfuck

[hanso]

Taliban Islamist head start program.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

His own men are being killed by the men they are training and he gives some awful excuse of Ramadan.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5dfaadf2-ed40-11e1-83d1-00144feab49a.html#axzz24wWX0dmS

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Now I know the economy will be the top issue for the election and whos better managing it, However 2 billion per week is being sucked out of our economy to continue propping up a corrupt government in Kabul

To Romneys shame he did not mention it in his acceptance speech, however the situation there is out of control to this date more 50 insider killings have happened in which the men we are training are pointing their guns at our troops. Theres a new term called green on blue violence.


Im so happy that we have Murrrrrican troops over there to fight for our freedoms, unfortunately freedom to express criticism on a specific religion is shunned by the President, top generals and Sec of State.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Army General faces sodomy charges



http://fayobserver.com/articles/2012/09/26/1206780?sac=fo.local

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yup. Lets stay until at least 2014 baby!!!!


Keep pouring money down that dump.

Its only 7.3 Million.

http://news.yahoo.com/afghan-police-locked-own-7-3m-facility-report-200755597--abc-news-topstories.html

[spoon]

talking to yourself again huh

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Its only money right?



Things are going so great over there. Victory !!!!!!

[spoon]

EXACTLY my point

very astute!

:wallbash:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

2 Billion a week.


How do you say Cha Ching in Pashto?

[spoon]

2 Billion a week.


How do you say Cha Ching in Pashto?

I believe it's, "fuck your face wf"...but bablefish isn't perfect

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I believe it's, "fuck your face wf"...but bablefish isn't perfect

Oh so you are part PashSpoon.

[spoon]

joke sucked the first 52 times you failed to copy me with it

WFool is the original


you simply have no ability for original thought

none

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Say whatever you want. You're irrelevant.


Believing we should still be in that dump is just idiotic. Fucking NeoCon.

[spoon]

Yep, said that very thing...again.

[jennysmurf]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRa1GSzEDuKto_Dj0Rm27i0WAtsgPdp HpCSR3J171XfmIqrJSt

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Karzai's conspiracy theory.


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/10/17257872-karzai-accuses-us-and-taliban-of-conspiring-to-keep-troops-in-afghanistan?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=3


I'm sure he already has his villa setup somewhere in Europe after we leave and the Taliban take over again

[foodcourtdruide]

Karzai's conspiracy theory.


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/10/17257872-karzai-accuses-us-and-taliban-of-conspiring-to-keep-troops-in-afghanistan?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=3


I'm sure he already has his villa setup somewhere in Europe after we leave and the Taliban take over again

He really seems nutty as shit.

[A.J.]

Karzai's conspiracy theory.


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/10/17257872-karzai-accuses-us-and-taliban-of-conspiring-to-keep-troops-in-afghanistan?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=3


I'm sure he already has his villa setup somewhere in Europe after we leave and the Taliban take over again

Sounds like he's been listening to those 9/11 conspiracy idiots. If our government would blow up the twin towers and Pentagon, killing our own citizens to justify invading Afghanistan, then surely we would kill our own soldiers in Afghanistan in order to stay there longer.

Perfectly logical.

[DarkHippie]

I guess if i lived in a shit hole like Afghanistan, I'd be crazy too.

On a related note. I played the new Risk:Legacy this weekend, and Afghanistan is unholdable, even worse than most of Asia.

Also, Risk: Legacy is the best Risk game so far

[WRESTLINGFAN]

We have been there longer than the Soviets were. They finally learned their lesson , however it took them 10 years.

[spoon]

We have been there longer than the Soviets were. They finally learned their lesson , however it took them 10 years.

COMPLETELY different reasons, motives and results.

[keithy_19]

Sounds like he's been listening to those 9/11 conspiracy idiots. If our government would blow up the twin towers and Pentagon, killing our own citizens to justify invading Afghanistan, then surely we would kill our own soldiers in Afghanistan in order to stay there longer.

Perfectly logical.

When you lay it out like that it sure does.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

COMPLETELY different reasons, motives and results.

In the end, it's still the same


It's the graveyard of empires

[hanso]

I guess if i lived in a shit hole like Afghanistan, I'd be crazy too.

On a related note. I played the new Risk:Legacy this weekend, and Afghanistan is unholdable, even worse than most of Asia.

Also, Risk: Legacy is the best Risk game so far

This is great the government needs to adapt a foreign policy strategy based on the board game risk

[spoon]

In the end, it's still the same


It's the graveyard of empires

in the end it's NOT the same...hence my post

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Immense sums of money spent, no decisive victory. Sounds like the same to me

[spoon]

http://www.gifday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2lmlxme.gif

[DarkHippie]

This is great the government needs to adapt a foreign policy strategy based on the board game risk

it just shows how awesome Risk is

[keithy_19]

it just shows how awesome Risk is

I was on vacation with a friend over a decade ago and we played Risk with a bunch of people. I was holed up in Australia and managed to win. I like to think it was an act of God.

[A.J.]

it just shows how awesome Risk is

I hope we invade Kamchatka next.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So much for leaving in 2014