2010-11 MLB Offseason Thread

[Snacks]

He's saying, instead of him winning those 27 games, what would have happened if his team was shut out in all of them, but Carlton's numbers stay the same (except for wins). Does that make his personal season worse?

No it doesnt that shit team just happen to score a couple of runs when he pitched. Having 27 wins for a team that had such few wins is insane and also means he pitched incredible. That being said no matter how great he pitched if they didnt at least hit on those days he pitched he would have had 10 wins and his season would still have been cy young worthy. WINs mean nothing when your talking about how good a pitcher is. Look at some of the pitchers in the late 1800s and early 1900s that pitched everyday and have 5 or 7 eras but have lost of wins.

[foodcourtdruide]

No it doesnt that shit team just happen to score a couple of runs when he pitched. Having 27 wins for a team that had such few wins is insane and also means he pitched incredible. That being said no matter how great he pitched if they didnt at least hit on those days he pitched he would have had 10 wins and his season would still have been cy young worthy. WINs mean nothing when your talking about how good a pitcher is. Look at some of the pitchers in the late 1800s and early 1900s that pitched everyday and have 5 or 7 eras but have lost of wins.

I always confuse you and spoon. I was like, "why is he agreeing with me now???"

[cougarjake13]

Honestly I dont know. He could have. Didnt he come up with Boston originally ? Im not sure if he played any games with them. If he went thru a McGwire Bonds Sosa conversion from a skinny guy to someone with a totalyl different physique then there could be questions.

It would not surprise me if players of the past took any PED's. Mantle played thru pain and was bandaged up all the time but it wouldnt surprise me if he was taking drugs or painkillers etc.

i remember seein a rookie bagwell card and he wasnt all jacked up


http://thegoldensombrero.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Jeff_Bagwell_1991_TSC.jpg

[spoon]

So kick all the cheaters out of the Hall. And stop letting known greenie users in. Those were against the rules of baseball far before steroids were against the rules.

You have a bunch of voters not voting for players that there was never any proof against. It's fucking retarded. Just what baseball needs, more smugness from their writers.

If you don't see the difference between greenies and steroids I won't even try to convince you. In fact, MLB still only gives a warning when caught bc it's NOT the same. There have also done studies out there showing little to no effect on performance, just energy level over time and concentration overall. It's applications with studying and staying awake have proven effective from what I can find.

[spoon]

It annoys the shit out of me that they didn't vote Alomar in first ballot because of the spitting incident, especially considering that afterwards Alomar and the umpire became great friends. What the hell does that have to do with baseball? I hate the holier-than-thou attitude the writers have.

Baseball writers are fucking douchebags.

Overall, yah, can't argue. I was watching the MLB network last year and I can't remember who it was, but he had spoke to many of those who had votes and got reasoning for those who didn't vote for Alomar. Some reasons were the spitting incident, his career end/unable to "take the pressure of NY" (what a fucking joke he was OLD and still not that bad), his bad press after linked to the whole HIV/AIDS issue and my favorite was bc of his main years not being in the US! So yah, fuck them in that regard fully.

[spoon]

even though I agree with you, this did have to do with baseball. He spit on an ump during a game so it 100% was about baseball and on the field activity. I hate when players like Eddie Murray have to wait because they arent considered media friendly! OH please, go fuck yourself you nerdy sports writers. These pompous pussies use that little bit of power they have to fuck with players. Its probably because its the 1st time they have ever had any power over anything.

You never spit on someone, but it wasn't like the Ump just said "Robbie buddy, you sir are wrong." It never should have wiped out his career in any way. It was a pathetic thing to do, no doubt, but hurt a vote on the Hall of Fame? I don't see that at all.

[spoon]

He's saying, instead of him winning those 27 games, what would have happened if his team was shut out in all of them, but Carlton's numbers stay the same (except for wins). Does that make his personal season worse?

So he went with the same exact ridiculous example you went with, great. It didn't, he won 27 games on a horrible team and you judge that independently of other players on other type teams. It's quite a feat, period.

[spoon]

and who knows what banned or unknown shit players took in the 40s and 50s and 60s and 70s etc? What about the cheaters that used pine tar or sand paper and spit balls? All illegal but there are plenty of those in the hall of fame. Steroids werent illegal as for baseball rules. Even Big Mac. He took andro which was an over the counter substance that later became illegal. We still dont know for a fact what else he took.

Personally I dont care what they took and wouldnt care if they were all juiced. Its their bodies and if done right they will not be hurt by it!

I'm pretty damn sure we know the stimulants and other shit players took or used that far back Snacks. None have even close to the effect of the designer performance drugs of today.

Also, we've had the fight before so it's really not worth having this one again, but I can't disagree more with you on your last statement. Why not just get rid of all the rules in the game too and just make it a UFC battle to get to home bc that's what you're doing in ignoring the law and rules of the game. It also very much DOES hurt the body and mind even when "done right", whatever that means. For every cousin in your family that says it's fine and can be done, you can find thousands saying the complete opposite. Conjecture at best.

[spoon]

I always confuse you and spoon. I was like, "why is he agreeing with me now???"

:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

[underdog]

If you don't see the difference between greenies and steroids I won't even try to convince you. In fact, MLB still only gives a warning when caught bc it's NOT the same. There have also done studies out there showing little to no effect on performance, just energy level over time and concentration overall. It's applications with studying and staying awake have proven effective from what I can find.

The MLB would give the same treatment to greenies if there was the same public outcry about it. Nothing these leagues do is based on how bad or how harmful something is going to be, it's how much the public cares about it.

Rob Neyer speaks better than I (http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/6738/change-will-roll-into-the-hall-someday)

[underdog]

So he went with the same exact ridiculous example you went with, great. It didn't, he won 27 games on a horrible team and you judge that independently of other players on other type teams. It's quite a feat, period.

So what if a pitcher has 25 wins on a team that only wins 60, but his ERA is over 5.50? What does that say about the pitcher?

[underdog]

I just pulled up Pedro Martinez's stats to try to prove a point. Man, sometimes I forget how fucking amazing that guy was.

Except in 1997. He was a fucking bum. He only won 17 games! And he almost lost 10! BOO! BOO!

[spoon]

So what if a pitcher has 25 wins on a team that only wins 60, but his ERA is over 5.50? What does that say about the pitcher?

What do you think?! Come on Udog, really? First off, things simply don't get THAT skewed. Next, it's the reason one should be judged on a case by case basis as I've said. If anyone pays attention, the stats speak to the overall picture of the player and their year, not define them overall.

[underdog]

What do you think?! Come on Udog, really? First off, things simply don't get THAT skewed. Next, it's the reason one should be judged on a case by case basis as I've said. If anyone pays attention, the stats speak to the overall picture of the player and their year, not define them overall.

Steve Carlton had a win in nearly 50% of his team's games. Stats get that skewed.

[spoon]

Steve Carlton had a win in nearly 50% of his team's games. Stats get that skewed.

No, no they don't. You conveniently left out a HUGE part of the equation we are talking about, ERA and the overall picture. Carlton had a 1.97 ERA that year, not 5.50. He also started 18 more games than any other Philly pitcher bc they had very little behind him. Funny thing is, most of those guys behind them had eras in the 4-5 range all with horrible win/loss records. So no, they do not.

[Barnaby Jones]

I'm pretty damn sure we know the stimulants and other shit players took or used that far back Snacks. None have even close to the effect of the designer performance drugs of today.

"Modern" steroids and PED's as we know them today started really taking off with American professional and amateur competition in the 1960's!!! Sure, they've changed plenty and expanded over the decades, but pro athletes would have had that stuff easilt available to them for a good 50 years now!!! Plus, as it was mentioned, all the amphetamines!!!

[spoon]

"Modern" steroids and PED's as we know them today started really taking off with American professional and amateur competition in the 1960's!!! Sure, they've changed plenty and expanded over the decades, but pro athletes would have had that stuff easilt available to them for a good 50 years now!!! Plus, as it was mentioned, all the amphetamines!!!

and?

[underdog]

No, no they don't. You conveniently left out a HUGE part of the equation we are talking about, ERA and the overall picture. Carlton had a 1.97 ERA that year, not 5.50. He also started 18 more games than any other Philly pitcher bc they had very little behind him. Funny thing is, most of those guys behind them had eras in the 4-5 range all with horrible win/loss records. So no, they do not.

Wins should be no way to judge Carlton that year. It's great that he was that good on such a horrible team, and had the luck behind him that his team fielded and hit alright while he was pitching. He got lucky and ended up with 27 wins. If his team had hit or fielded worse, he could have ended up with 17 wins, with all the same other stats. Would his season be any different?

[TripleSkeet]

Wins should be no way to judge Carlton that year. It's great that he was that good on such a horrible team, and had the luck behind him that his team fielded and hit alright while he was pitching. He got lucky and ended up with 27 wins. If his team had hit or fielded worse, he could have ended up with 17 wins, with all the same other stats. Would his season be any different?

I think thats a great way to judge him actually. He played on a team that couldnt fucking score so basically he had to go out there and say "Score 2 runs and we'll win." What it shows me is they couldnt win any kind of game unless the other team couldnt score at all. Pretty hard to do that that many times in a season.

[underdog]

I think thats a great way to judge him actually. He played on a team that couldnt fucking score so basically he had to go out there and say "Score 2 runs and we'll win." What it shows me is they couldnt win any kind of game unless the other team couldnt score at all. Pretty hard to do that that many times in a season.

So if they couldn't score two wins, he's suddenly a worse pitcher?

[TripleSkeet]

The MLB would give the same treatment to greenies if there was the same public outcry about it. Nothing these leagues do is based on how bad or how harmful something is going to be, it's how much the public cares about it.

Rob Neyer speaks better than I (http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/6738/change-will-roll-into-the-hall-someday)

I agree with this alot. Im still mad about the whole androstendione debacle. I had been using that stuff for awhile. It was awesome. Really helped working out and completely legit. Then they see the bottle in McGwires locker and next thing I know its banned. I was fucking PISSED.

Same with ephedra. A drug when used right can do wonders for you and help your workout, but because some dumb fuck teenager decides to ignore the instructions and eat them like they are M & Ms we lose that too.

[Barnaby Jones]

and?

We have no idea who "cheated" and who didn't over the last 50 years when it comes to PED's!!!

[TripleSkeet]

So if they couldn't score two wins, he's suddenly a worse pitcher?

No, but in all seriousness, fair or not, if he had wound up with 12 wins and the same stats he wouldnt be considered for the Cy Young. It just doesnt work that way. Even if your team sucks, usually if you want to get an award like that they still have to win a decent amount of the games youre starting. In the end winning the game is what matters most.

[underdog]

No, but in all seriousness, fair or not, if he had wound up with 12 wins and the same stats he wouldnt be considered for the Cy Young. It just doesnt work that way. Even if your team sucks, usually if you want to get an award like that they still have to win a decent amount of the games youre starting. In the end winning the game is what matters most.

Do you understand how retarded that is? A pitcher wouldn't be up for the Cy Young with the same stats, except his team didn't score enough runs for him to win. Wins are a terrible stat to judge a pitcher on.

And Felix Hernandez won the award with a pretty shitty record this year. I'm glad the voters are realizing that won/loss record is not a way to judge a pitcher's season.

[TripleSkeet]

Do you understand how retarded that is? A pitcher wouldn't be up for the Cy Young with the same stats, except his team didn't score enough runs for him to win. Wins are a terrible stat to judge a pitcher on.

And Felix Hernandez won the award with a pretty shitty record this year. I'm glad the voters are realizing that won/loss record is not a way to judge a pitcher's season.

Like I said, its not really fair. But good example with Felix.

[spoon]

We have no idea who "cheated" and who didn't over the last 50 years when it comes to PED's!!!

Snacks said we didn't have any clue as to WHAT they were taking, I said we do know. And if you think the drugs are similar in impact, just look at the sudden explosion in stats and you can see the difference. It's one thing to take a stimulant, it's another to take what guys were taking in that era.

Get caught, you take what comes with it. If someone isn't caught, what can you say, they skated. Speaking of the other eras, PEDs are not all the same. Still, I wish they were caught and eliminated from the hall. I'd rather up the value of getting in, not diminish it.

[epo]

Garza to Cubs: (http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/5056)

The Cubs are getting right-handed pitcher Matt Garza, outfielder Fernando Perez and left-handed pitcher Zachary Rosscup in exchange for outfielder Sam Fuld and prospects Chris Archer, Brandon Guyer, Hak-Ju Lee and Robinson Chirinos.

The Cubs just won 4th place in the NL Central!

[spoon]

No, but in all seriousness, fair or not, if he had wound up with 12 wins and the same stats he wouldnt be considered for the Cy Young. It just doesnt work that way. Even if your team sucks, usually if you want to get an award like that they still have to win a decent amount of the games youre starting. In the end winning the game is what matters most.

Do you understand how retarded that is? A pitcher wouldn't be up for the Cy Young with the same stats, except his team didn't score enough runs for him to win. Wins are a terrible stat to judge a pitcher on.

And Felix Hernandez won the award with a pretty shitty record this year. I'm glad the voters are realizing that won/loss record is not a way to judge a pitcher's season.

I'm not saying that at all, it's the overall picture and wins can say a lot or a little pending on the situation and voters can't simply rely on them or dismiss them. In Steve's case, it adds to his year which was insanely better than anyone else out there. Even IF he had less wins, voters even then would have given it to him. Even a blind man would be able to see the amazing impact he had on his shitty team and the league. He was unreal that year on a shit team.

[spoon]

Garza to Cubs: (http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/5056)



The Cubs just won 4th place in the NL Central!

Isn't that their door prize every year?

[cougarjake13]

Isn't that their door prize every year?

cept for that every once in a blue moon where they win a division

[midwestjeff]

The Cubs just won 4th place in the NL Central!

Damn, and the Cards have done everything in their power to try and give them third.

[Barnaby Jones]

Look at the new slimmed down Prince Fielder!!!

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/sussemilch/Dec2010/thin-prince.jpg

Somebody is gearing up for free agency!!!!

[Snacks]

Look at the new slimmed down Prince Fielder!!!

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/sussemilch/Dec2010/thin-prince.jpg

Somebody is gearing up for free agency!!!!

that is his vegan diet working for him!

[Earlshog]

Look at the new slimmed down Prince Fielder!!!

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/sussemilch/Dec2010/thin-prince.jpg

Somebody is gearing up for free agency!!!!

That or he has the bug.

[Earlshog]

that is his vegan diet working for him!

only took three years.... :laugh:

[spoon]

Look at the new slimmed down Prince Fielder!!!

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/sussemilch/Dec2010/thin-prince.jpg

Somebody is gearing up for free agency!!!!


It worked! And on the same day you posted this!

Big money, big money, no whammies.....STOP! (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110118&content_id=16452948&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

[Snacks]

It worked! And on the same day you posted this!

Big money, big money, no whammies.....STOP! (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110118&content_id=16452948&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

why cant he seem to get a long term deal?

[Snoogans]

why cant he seem to get a long term deal?

cause milwaukee cant afford to keep him past this year. So they gave him 1 year to avoid arb cause they probably woulda awarded him like 20 mill, and then they will either trade him in July or let him walk

[spoon]

Wells gone, along with his HUGE albatross of a contract. Will miss his D in center and quiet leadership, but not that HUGE contract and him swinging at balls above his chest/head level for the K.

Wells for Napoli & Rivera...so far. (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110121&content_id=16479674&vkey=news_tor&c_id=tor)

:dry:

[epo]

cause milwaukee cant afford to keep him past this year. So they gave him 1 year to avoid arb cause they probably woulda awarded him like 20 mill, and then they will either trade him in July or let him walk

Milwaukee offered him 5/$100 last summer. It was then they stopped trying and went to the single year approach with him and Boras.

Boras says Fielder will get 8/$200 for Prince and I've learned to never doubt Boras.

[spoon]

Wow it's amazing how Crawford going to Boston actually worked out for the Jays so far. Since he chose against LA, it really put them on the market for a bat and outfielder who the Jays have wanted to unload for a while now. Hell, Wells recently admitted himself on a local Toronto radio show he wasn't worth his own contract. So LA's need tied to the fact they were all clogged up at Napoli's positions and him going to arb, they wanted him gone.

Guess what, the Jays needed a catcher to work in front of rook Arencibia and insurance at first/third with the likes of Lind moving there for the first time since college and EE (E5 as Jay fans know him) & Batista working at 3rd.

Now they get to keep Batista in right with his cannon arm (yet not the best at reading balls) and EE at first/DH, while Napoli takes on the catcher/1b/3b role due to his versitility and will most likely bat at the tail end of the lineup.

It looks like a pretty shitty defensive outfield now though with the bulk of work probably going to Snider/Davis/Batista. Infield should normally look like Napoli/Bastista (3rd), Escobar (SS), Hill (2nd) and Lind/EE/Napoli (1st). Arencibia/Napoli (Catcher) & EE/Lind/Napoli (DH).

What a weird lineup! I'm sure the AL East is running scared of the 3rd place at best Blue Jays! So much needs to go right for them to place even that high above TB and Baltimore. It's mainly up to the pitching and even looking there you see plenty of question marks. Potential sure, but nothing set in stone.

1) Romero (L) (A-/B+ rating, potential A)
2) Morrow (R) (B rating, potential A)
3) Cecil (L) (B-/C+ rating, potential B)
4) Drabek (R) (C/C- rating, potential B+ so far)
5?) Mills (L), Stewart (R), Ray (R), Janssen(R), Litsch (R), Zip (L) (in order I think should get the spot and or would like to see over an extended period of time).

[spoon]

Milwaukee offered him 5/$100 last summer. It was then they stopped trying and went to the single year approach with him and Boras.

Boras says Fielder will get 8/$200 for Prince and I've learned to never doubt Boras.

Let's see how he does in this vegan form first. It could either direction in a big way. :unsure:

[epo]

Let's see how he does in this vegan form first. It could either direction in a big way. :unsure:

Ha! He was a vegetarian in 2008. This past year he started eating meat again.

If anything, by the numbers he had a worse year in 2010 on the meat and should give it up again.

[spoon]

I remember him starting a year that way and hitting like shit power-wise, but could be wrong. Also, I don't think he's ever even been close to this light has he?

In other news, Manny seeing the Jays pretty much out of the DH/1B market took TB's deal...as did Damon. Both ex-Boston players now in TB.

[epo]

I remember him starting a year that way and hitting like shit power-wise, but could be wrong. Also, I don't think he's ever even been close to this light has he?

In other news, Manny seeing the Jays pretty much out of the DH/1B market took TB's deal...as did Damon. Both ex-Boston players now in TB.

He generally starts every year like shit. So warheads blamed the lack of meat, not realizing that it was probably the best he could do for his longevity.

[cougarjake13]

Wow it's amazing how Crawford going to Boston actually worked out for the Jays so far. Since he chose against LA, it really put them on the market for a bat and outfielder who the Jays have wanted to unload for a while now. Hell, Wells recently admitted himself on a local Toronto radio show he wasn't worth his own contract. So LA's need tied to the fact they were all clogged up at Napoli's positions and him going to arb, they wanted him gone.

Guess what, the Jays needed a catcher to work in front of rook Arencibia and insurance at first/third with the likes of Lind moving there for the first time since college and EE (E5 as Jay fans know him) & Batista working at 3rd.

Now they get to keep Batista in right with his cannon arm (yet not the best at reading balls) and EE at first/DH, while Napoli takes on the catcher/1b/3b role due to his versitility and will most likely bat at the tail end of the lineup.

It looks like a pretty shitty defensive outfield now though with the bulk of work probably going to Snider/Davis/Batista. Infield should normally look like Napoli/Bastista (3rd), Escobar (SS), Hill (2nd) and Lind/EE/Napoli (1st). Arencibia/Napoli (Catcher) & EE/Lind/Napoli (DH).

What a weird lineup! I'm sure the AL East is running scared of the 3rd place at best Blue Jays! So much needs to go right for them to place even that high above TB and Baltimore. It's mainly up to the pitching and even looking there you see plenty of question marks. Potential sure, but nothing set in stone.

1) Romero (L) (A-/B+ rating, potential A)
2) Morrow (R) (B rating, potential A)
3) Cecil (L) (B-/C+ rating, potential B)
4) Drabek (R) (C/C- rating, potential B+ so far)
5?) Mills (L), Stewart (R), Ray (R), Janssen(R), Litsch (R), Zip (L) (in order I think should get the spot and or would like to see over an extended period of time).






will definitely be interesting to seem them next month trying to get it together but you know what im not sold on the yankees being a definite 2nd place or possibly threaten the sawx who are getting all the pub as the front runners for division


i could see rays jays or yanks as 2nd place in division and a shot at wild card

[epo]

Also, Marcum better be fucking good!

[cougarjake13]

Also, Marcum better be fucking good!



well going from al east to nl central has got to help

[spoon]

Also, Marcum better be fucking good!

well going from al east to nl central has got to help

He's beyond fucking solid. Every other time out there he was about 6 innings of no-hit ball it seemed. He's a very good clubhouse guy to say the least as well, just keep him healthy. I'll miss the guy, and nothing get to him on the mound. Very good pickup to add to Mil's new rotation.

[spoon]

Bleacher Report Rundown: Toronto (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/579832-toronto-blue-jays-2011-preview-are-they-a-better-team-than-last-year)

Great breakdown on the team's moves and placement moving into the year. Interesting look at EE, 21 hrs in only 96 games but with all those errors at third. He may very well be a GREAT DH on the right AL team. They just need to keep him from having to throw the ball much and first/DH are the best ways of doing so. Almost all of his errors were of the throwing variety.

Epo, go to slide 2.

[epo]

Bleacher Report Rundown: Toronto (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/579832-toronto-blue-jays-2011-preview-are-they-a-better-team-than-last-year)

Great breakdown on the team's moves and placement moving into the year. Interesting look at EE, 21 hrs in only 96 games but with all those errors at third. He may very well be a GREAT DH on the right AL team. They just need to keep him from having to throw the ball much and first/DH are the best ways of doing so. Almost all of his errors were of the throwing variety.

Epo, go to slide 2.

Hey, you got Edward 40 hands out of that deal.

[razorboy]

Ramirez and Damon reunited as Rays. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/baseball/mlb/01/21/rays-damon-ramirez/)

Whatever.

[Snacks]

Ramirez and Damon reunited as Rays. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/baseball/mlb/01/21/rays-damon-ramirez/)

Whatever.

How does Damon keep getting big amounts? Hes getting over $5 million? Not worth it. Manny is worth $2 million. If hes good hes a steal and if hes ok or avg he will still be worth the money because he will bring attention to the club and sell jerseys. I want one!

[spoon]

Yah, he and his ego just got ranked the #2 prospect at 2nd base throughout the league.

[Barnaby Jones]

How does Damon keep getting big amounts? Hes getting over $5 million? Not worth it. Manny is worth $2 million. If hes good hes a steal and if hes ok or avg he will still be worth the money because he will bring attention to the club and sell jerseys. I want one!

Shitty was he was last year, Manny was still better than most of the DH production around the AL!!!!

[underdog]

How does Damon keep getting big amounts? Hes getting over $5 million? Not worth it. Manny is worth $2 million. If hes good hes a steal and if hes ok or avg he will still be worth the money because he will bring attention to the club and sell jerseys. I want one!

Didn't Manny make like $25mil last year? What a drop off.

[Barnaby Jones]

I think he's still getting paid around $10 million or so from the Dodgers, so that probably tied in to the Rays getting him for cheap!!!!

[hanso]

Ramirez and Damon reunited as Rays. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/baseball/mlb/01/21/rays-damon-ramirez/)

Whatever.

I like this move. They gave up some pitching (#1 RP) Good pitching is fine. But I'm a bigger fan of offence.

[epo]

I like this move. They gave up some pitching (#1 RP) Good pitching is fine. But I'm a bigger fan of offence.

Great offense is fun to watch. Great pitching wins.

[razorboy]

I like this move. They gave up some pitching (#1 RP) Good pitching is fine. But I'm a bigger fan of offence.

Starting pitching will be fine. They got a haul for Garza and replaced him with Hellickson who I already have 10 times more confidence in. Having Garza and Zambrano in the same rotation should lead to some amusing meltdowns for the Cubs though. If Manny can provide any offense at all it will be an upgrade at DH. Damon is basically just another excuse to keep Jennings in AAA for a while longer which pisses me off. The bullpen is going to be the big issue this year.

[Kris10]

So Damon & Martinez platooning in left field? Or you think one will play the field while the other DHs?

Am I the only one who is interested to see how Martinez & Upton will get along?

[razorboy]

So Damon & Martinez platooning in left field? Or you think one will play the field while the other DHs?

Am I the only one who is interested to see how Martinez & Upton will get along?

Manny will DH full time and Damon will be in left. So an outfield of Damon, Upton, Joyce/Zobrist. I expect at some point in the season Jennings will be called up start to take over left, unless Damon is just playing too well to justify cutting his playing time.

As for BJ, sometimes he deserves the heat he gets but it's often overblown nationally. The Longoria thing was an isolated incident and he seemed to have turned the corner on the running out ground balls issue. If Manny can help him to shorten his swing and drop the absurd toe loop mechanic I'll be ecstatic. What I will be interested to see is how Maddon handles it the first time Manny jogs twelve feet towards first before turning to the dugout on a ground ball.

[Kris10]

Manny will DH full time and Damon will be in left. So an outfield of Damon, Upton, Joyce/Zobrist. I expect at some point in the season Jennings will be called up start to take over left, unless Damon is just playing too well to justify cutting his playing time.

As for BJ, sometimes he deserves the heat he gets but it's often overblown nationally. The Longoria thing was an isolated incident and he seemed to have turned the corner on the running out ground balls issue. If Manny can help him to shorten his swing and drop the absurd toe loop mechanic I'll be ecstatic. What I will be interested to see is how Maddon handles it the first time Manny jogs twelve feet towards first before turning to the dugout on a ground ball.

I would love to get Maddon up in Philly when Charlie eventually goes.

[cougarjake13]

Ramirez and Damon reunited as Rays. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/baseball/mlb/01/21/rays-damon-ramirez/)

Whatever.

i thought for sure they reported the money flipped

and why would manny sign for so little was he getting no offers whatsoever ??

[spoon]

I would love to get Maddon up in Philly when Charlie eventually goes.

He is a PA boy (Hazelton, PA).

[spoon]

i thought for sure they reported the money flipped

and why would manny sign for so little was he getting no offers whatsoever ??

I think he was really trying to pit TB and Toronto against each other for the bidding process. So when he saw/heard Toronto made that deal and essentially took themselves out of the market for DH, he immediately took the TB deal. At least that is some of what I read on the situation.

[Kris10]

He is a PA boy (Hazelton, PA).

Nice!

I'm not thrilled with our current 1st base coach. I find it hard to believe we couldn't have done better then Sam Perlozzo. But at the same time who the hell was really out there? Dodgers definitely scored when they picked up Davey Lopes though.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Spring training less than a month away. Lets see if the Cards will give Albert the $30 and 10. If not which other team would even come close? Dont see Boston in the mix since they already signed Adrian Gonzalez


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6056760&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

[brettmojo]

Yanks are saved. No worries for this rotation. Who needs Cliff Lee? We've got Fatolo Colon! Woot Woot!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yanks are saved. No worries for this rotation. Who needs Cliff Lee? We've got Fatolo Colon! Woot Woot!!!

Wait till they sign Mo Vaugn to bolster their bench

[cougarjake13]

Spring training less than a month away. Lets see if the Cards will give Albert the $30 and 10. If not which other team would even come close? Dont see Boston in the mix since they already signed Adrian Gonzalez


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6056760&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

yanks are out with texiera



mets maybe have the money but i dont see them spending it

[spoon]

yanks are out with texiera



mets maybe have the money but i dont see them spending it

and a pretty good newb in Ike Davis

[cougarjake13]

and a pretty good newb in Ike Davis

yeh i was gonna put that but i figured the non mets fans would call me out saying hes no pujols which he isnt


plus i think hes originally an OF so id have no prob signing pujols and moving davis

[Earlshog]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/14609367/padres-reach-deals-with-inf-cantu-rhp-burke


SAN DIEGO (AP) - The San Diego Padres and infielder Jorge Cantu have reached agreement on an $850,000, one-year contract.

[cougarjake13]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/14609367/padres-reach-deals-with-inf-cantu-rhp-burke


SAN DIEGO (AP) - The San Diego Padres and infielder Jorge Cantu have reached agreement on an $850,000, one-year contract.

now theyll be able to overtake the world champion giants

[spoon]

yeh i was gonna put that but i figured the non mets fans would call me out saying hes no pujols which he isnt


plus i think hes originally an OF so id have no prob signing pujols and moving davis

Well it's HIGHLY unlikely as the news keeps coming out about the Met's financial issues, the lawsuit and divesting of some of the current ownership.

[cougarjake13]

Well it's HIGHLY unlikely as the news keeps coming out about the Met's financial issues, the lawsuit and divesting of some of the current ownership.



yeh i saw that



i would love if they could trade beltran

[spoon]

I doubt they'd find anyone that dumb to take him and even half his salary.

[cougarjake13]

I doubt they'd find anyone that dumb to take him and even half his salary.

i think hes only got one year left

[epo]

i think hes only got one year left

With his salary, Beltran would need to come back...be productive and then they MIGHT be able to move him at the trade deadline.

[cougarjake13]

With his salary, Beltran would need to come back...be productive and then they MIGHT be able to move him at the trade deadline.

thats what im hoping for as a mets fan

[Earlshog]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_mccann/02/01/wilpon.lawsuits/index.html


Madoff-related lawsuits could hit Mets owner Fred Wilpon hard

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And the Yankees desperate search for pitching continues.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/593900-2011-new-york-yankees-cashman-signs-another-maybe-pitcher-freddy-garcia

[brettmojo]

And the Yankees desperate search for pitching continues.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/593900-2011-new-york-yankees-cashman-signs-another-maybe-pitcher-freddy-garcia
Francesa nailed it yesterday. He said it's like they're shopping at Kmart.

[Earlshog]

Francesa nailed it yesterday. He said it's like they're shopping at Kmart.

more like craigslist

[brettmojo]

more like craigslist
If they sign Garcia and a 60 year old Filipino woman shows up then yes.

[spoon]

If they sign Garcia and a 60 year old Filipino woman shows up then yes.

same thing

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Pettitte hanging up the spikes. I think another factor is the whole clemens hearing too



http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/03/report-andy-pettitte-to-retire-tomorrow/

[hanso]

The guy made me think of the Warriors movie at times.

[spoon]

Pettitte hanging up the spikes. I think another factor is the whole clemens hearing too



http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/03/report-andy-pettitte-to-retire-tomorrow/

Can't wait until we find out how often Petite was "injured" and needed "the stuff" only that one time before each and every 19 postseason win. Fuck that cheating cunt. I hope he and Roger get DESTROYED with the hearing.

[cougarjake13]

Pettitte hanging up the spikes. I think another factor is the whole clemens hearing too



http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/03/report-andy-pettitte-to-retire-tomorrow/



he'll be back

[Snacks]

Pettitte hanging up the spikes. I think another factor is the whole clemens hearing too



http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/03/report-andy-pettitte-to-retire-tomorrow/

why because hes a rat bastard?

snitches get stitches! fuck him

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Young wants out of Arlington.


http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=6098059

[underdog]

Pirates lose arbitration hearing against a 1-11 pitcher (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11040/1124149-100.stm)

Haha!

[weekapaugjz]

Pirates lose arbitration hearing against a 1-11 pitcher (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11040/1124149-100.stm)

Haha!

aren't you always saying how you can't judge how good a pitcher is based on his record?

[underdog]

aren't you always saying how you can't judge how good a pitcher is based on his record?

And this 1-11 pitcher only had a 4.07 ERA. Not great, but certainly not super horrible.

I just found it funny that the Pirates can lose everything.

[TheGameHHH]

And this 1-11 pitcher only had a 4.07 ERA. Not great, but certainly not super horrible.

I just found it funny that the Pirates can lose everything.

Former Yankee right there, funny thing is they could probably use him this year. I think he went over in the Nady deal.

[foodcourtdruide]

I know we all love lists:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6107998

I disagree with so much of it (sadly, don't disagree that my Mets aren't very improved from last year).

Specifically, are The Phillies really THAT improved? They of course, gained Lee, but how much better could their starting rotation get? They have an extremely weak offense, that got weaker by losing Werth and having a few of their veterans get a year older.

Don't get me wrong, I think they're a very good team and that pitching staff is pretty amazing, but I wouldn't consider them a lock for the NL East.

[TripleSkeet]

I know we all love lists:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6107998

I disagree with so much of it (sadly, don't disagree that my Mets aren't very improved from last year).

Specifically, are The Phillies really THAT improved? They of course, gained Lee, but how much better could their starting rotation get? They have an extremely weak offense, that got weaker by losing Werth and having a few of their veterans get a year older.

Don't get me wrong, I think they're a very good team and that pitching staff is pretty amazing, but I wouldn't consider them a lock for the NL East.

Extremely weak offense???? WTF???

Dont get me wrong, Im one of the guys that think the loss of Werths bat will hurt the offense but last year their offense was 2nd in the National league behind Cincinnatti and 6th overall in the league. Where do you get that their offense is extremely weak??? From the bad series they had against San Fran?

[A.J.]

I know we all love lists:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6107998.

5. "O" HAPPY DAY: How 'bout this for a concept: actual hope in Baltimore.

I agree. The O's had a great second half of the season with Buck Showalter at the helm. And they have some great young starting pitching. An AL East contender? Hardly. But an AL East spoiler? Very likely.

[Earlshog]

same thing

the 60 Filipino has a better shoulder.

[foodcourtdruide]

Extremely weak offense???? WTF???

Dont get me wrong, Im one of the guys that think the loss of Werths bat will hurt the offense but last year their offense was 2nd in the National league behind Cincinnatti and 6th overall in the league. Where do you get that their offense is extremely weak??? From the bad series they had against San Fran?

How could you have watched Phillies games last year and not think their offense was weak and didn't have a lot of depth? Wilson Valdez got 333 AB last season! They got swept in a 3 game series vs. the Mets and shut out in each game. When the team was at full strength they were good, but any time they had a key injury on offense they struggled heavily. Losing Werth and having an already old team, get older would concern me.

[foodcourtdruide]

I agree. The O's had a great second half of the season with Buck Showalter at the helm. And they have some great young starting pitching. An AL East contender? Hardly. But an AL East spoiler? Very likely.

I can see them as possibly contending. That Yankees pitching staff is a disaster. The Red Sox improved their offense soooo much though. However, putting a bunch of all-stars on a team doesn't necessarily translate to wins.

[Earlshog]

I know we all love lists:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6107998

I disagree with so much of it (sadly, don't disagree that my Mets aren't very improved from last year).

Specifically, are The Phillies really THAT improved? They of course, gained Lee, but how much better could their starting rotation get? They have an extremely weak offense, that got weaker by losing Werth and having a few of their veterans get a year older.

Don't get me wrong, I think they're a very good team and that pitching staff is pretty amazing, but I wouldn't consider them a lock for the NL East.

That is crazy talk

[foodcourtdruide]

Extremely weak offense???? WTF???

Dont get me wrong, Im one of the guys that think the loss of Werths bat will hurt the offense but last year their offense was 2nd in the National league behind Cincinnatti and 6th overall in the league. Where do you get that their offense is extremely weak??? From the bad series they had against San Fran?

Also, where do you get that their offense was 2nd in the NL? Runs? I don't think that's a good way to judge an offense. There are way too many factors that could corrupt that.

[foodcourtdruide]

That is crazy talk

Go through your line-up and bench. Tell me how it is not weak. You have terrible depth and will be replacing Werth with a rookie, correct? Ibanez and Polanco are aging and Rollins is an albatross in your line-up. Utley, Howard, Ruiz are fantastic players though.

[foodcourtdruide]

Don't get me wrong, the Phillies are very good and I wish my team was as good as them. However, this off-season you improved your best piece and lost a very good player in your weakest part.

[Earlshog]

How could you have watched Phillies games last year and not think their offense was weak and didn't have a lot of depth? Wilson Valdez got 333 AB last season! They got swept in a 3 game series vs. the Mets and shut out in each game. When the team was at full strength they were good, but any time they had a key injury on offense they struggled heavily. Losing Werth and having an already old team, get older would concern me.

Okay so the term that would better fit is "potential holes in a potent offense" not "Extremely weak offense"

Don’t get me wrong when the Phillies bats go cold it is ice cold, they have been that way since 2006. I don't dispute that losing Werth will hurt. But he was just as streaky as anyone. Sure when he is raking he can carry a team, but when he is cold he whiffs with men in scoring postion like Rob Deer. Rollins should have a much better year, provided he stays healty, which he has more incentive to in a walk year.

They are a year older but not old. Polanco and Ibanez are the only two starters over 32.

[foodcourtdruide]

Okay so the term that would better fit is "potential holes in a potent offense" not "Extremely weak offense"

Don’t get me wrong when the Phillies bats go cold it is ice cold, they have been that way since 2006. I don't dispute that losing Werth will hurt. But he was just as streaky as anyone. Sure when he is raking he can carry a team, but when he is cold he whiffs with men in scoring postion like Rob Deer. Rollins should have a much better year, provided he stays healty, which he has more incentive to in a walk year.

They are a year older but not old. Polanco and Ibanez are the only two starters over 32.

How about "potential holes in a shaky offense"? Extremely weak was an overstatement.

I don't know why you think Rollins should have a better year, even though he's in a walk year he's been on a dramatic decline since his great season. I can't believe when people mention him in the top-SS in the NL discussion.

I'm not as worried about Polanco as I am about Ibanez (this is based on opinion solely, Ibanez has been great for the Phillies), he just seems like a dramatic decline waiting to happen and I just don't see the depth to recover from that.

[Earlshog]

Go through your line-up and bench. Tell me how it is not weak. You have terrible depth and will be replacing Werth with a rookie, correct? Ibanez and Polanco are aging and Rollins is an albatross in your line-up. Utley, Howard, Ruiz are fantastic players though.

Rollins is far from an albatross. He stays healthy, easy Top 5 NL, potential top three as he is looking for dat chedda!

Werth is being replaced with a top rated prospect Dominic Brown. Good situation a chance to get younger while the lineup is strong enough to carry him through any growing pains.

As Long as Polonco and Ibanez are healthy you could do much worse.

Don't forget Victorino is a Top 5 CF.

As I said the line-up can get cold at times and it is lefty heavy but to call it a weakness? Come on now.


What NL teams do you think have a better Line-up then the Phils?

[Earlshog]

How about "potential holes in a shaky offense"? Extremely weak was an overstatement.

I don't know why you think Rollins should have a better year, even though he's in a walk year he's been on a dramatic decline since his great season. I can't believe when people mention him in the top-SS in the NL discussion.

I'm not as worried about Polanco as I am about Ibanez (this is based on opinion solely, Ibanez has been great for the Phillies), he just seems like a dramatic decline waiting to happen and I just don't see the depth to recover from that.

Ibanez had a dismal first half and played very well the second last year. He has one last year remaining on his contract. He is a hard worker and he wants that ring. I say barring injury he bounces back and has a solid season.

Why can't you believe that about Rollins? Ramirez, Tulowitzki, and Reyes are better. Maybe you could argue Stephen Drew. That’s it.

[foodcourtdruide]

Rollins is far from an albatross. He stays healthy, easy Top 5 NL, potential top three as he is looking for dat chedda!

Werth is being replaced with a top rated prospect Dominic Brown. Good situation a chance to get younger while the lineup is strong enough to carry him through any growing pains.

As Long as Polonco and Ibanez are healthy you could do much worse.

Don't forget Victorino is a Top 5 CF.

As I said the line-up can get cold at times and it is lefty heavy but to call it a weakness? Come on now.


What NL teams do you think have a better Line-up then the Phils?

If I had to start the season with an offense tomorrow, I'd rather have these teams offense:

Rockies, Reds, Cards, Braves.

I throw the Phillies in a group with Brewers and Marlins as basically if all breaks right they have extremely potent offenses, Phillies are probably best of those 3 though, but man, I like the Marlins offense.

[Earlshog]

If I had to start the season with an offense tomorrow, I'd rather have these teams offense:

Rockies, Reds, Cards, Braves.

I throw the Phillies in a group with Brewers and Marlins as basically if all breaks right they have extremely potent offenses, Phillies are probably best of those 3 though, but man, I like the Marlins offense.

No way the Cardinals or Braves have a better line up. Rockies have an intriguing line up. Car Go is a beast and Tulowitzki is not far behind. Honestly I don't think the Reds have a better line up. But let's just for the sake of argument say they do. That would mean the Phillies have a top three offense in the N.L. To get back to what touched of this discussion you admit it was crazy talk to call the offense very weak when even by your assessment there are 10 teams in the NL with an inferior line-up.

By the way how great is it we are talking baseball!!!!

[foodcourtdruide]

No way the Cardinals or Braves have a better line up. Rockies have an intriguing line up. Car Go is a beast and Tulowitzki is not far behind. Honestly I don't think the Reds have a better line up. But let's just for the sake of argument say they do. That would mean the Phillies have a top three offense in the N.L. To get back to what touched of this discussion you admit it was crazy talk to call the offense very weak when even by your assessment there are 10 teams in the NL with an inferior line-up.

By the way how great is it we are talking baseball!!!!

It is really awesome!!!

I love the Braves line-up. The addition of Uggla was really incredible. The only reason I say the Phils aren't a lock to win the NL East is because the Braves are so good. I have so much respect for the way that organization is run.

I think I illustrated my initial point pretty poorly. I think my reason for saying that Phillies haven't drastically improved is because though they got Lee, they still have a major problem in that they lost Werth and have poor depth. When the Phillies weren't at full-strength last year they were AWFUL offensively, and they got worse, and are more likely not to be at full-strength this year.

[TheGameHHH]

As I'm reading this thread Buster Olney is on ESPN talking about how the Phillies may be too old

[spoon]

Extremely weak offense???? WTF???

Dont get me wrong, Im one of the guys that think the loss of Werths bat will hurt the offense but last year their offense was 2nd in the National league behind Cincinnatti and 6th overall in the league. Where do you get that their offense is extremely weak??? From the bad series they had against San Fran?

I actually love Werth's play but his loss surely doesn't make the likes of Utley, Howard, Victorino, Rollins (when healthy) and Ibanez even CLOSE to weak. Not to mention they were able to let Werth and his now HUGE contract go bc they have a much cheaper guy in Brown ready to make the jump. He'll be a pretty good fit for the hole left, but is surely a different type player right now.

[spoon]

I agree. The O's had a great second half of the season with Buck Showalter at the helm. And they have some great young starting pitching. An AL East contender? Hardly. But an AL East spoiler? Very likely.

I wouldn't say their young pitching is great. Yet I too think they'll be a much bigger factor in the AL East not being a doormat any longer. I think it's a free for all for third in the AL East this year. Toronto, TB and Balt. Hell, even the yanks might come down to visit if they're pitching woes continue to start the year and their stars grow old. One can hope.

[spoon]

Rollins is far from an albatross. He stays healthy, easy Top 5 NL, potential top three as he is looking for dat chedda!



Why Earl? Why?

:wallbash:

[TheGameHHH]

I wouldn't say their young pitching is great. Yet I too think they'll be a much bigger factor in the AL East not being a doormat any longer. I think it's a free for all for third in the AL East this year. Toronto, TB and Balt. Hell, even the yanks might come down to visit if they're pitching woes continue to start the year and their stars grow old. One can hope.

Their "stars" that might get old only come down to 3 guys, one of which is going to be DH this year and the other is a fantastic RP that hasn't shown signs of aging......yet. I won't count A-Rod in the old category because he'll still drive in 100 runs and prob jack 30. It really comes down to their pitching and if Burnett has a bounce back year, which I actually think he will, they'll be alright. Not WS material, but alright. Better than 3rd in my opinion.

[foodcourtdruide]

I actually love Werth's play but his loss surely doesn't make the likes of Utley, Howard, Victorino, Rollins (when healthy) and Ibanez even CLOSE to weak. Not to mention they were able to let Werth and his now HUGE contract go bc they have a much cheaper guy in Brown ready to make the jump. He'll be a pretty good fit for the hole left, but is surely a different type player right now.

I have no reason to think Rollins will have an above .700 OPS this season and Ibanez is way on the wrong side of 30. If Rollins decline continues and Ibanez finally starts to show his age the Phillies will have a bad offense. I don't see those two statements as implausible or stretches of the imagination. The Phillies are just not a deep offensive team.

[Earlshog]

Why Earl? Why?

:wallbash:

:surrender:

I have no excuse

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Pujols could walk after this season. He's the one with leverage





http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6119858

[Snacks]

Pujols could walk after this season. He's the one with leverage





http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6119858

True but he is fucked by the fact that the 2 teams that would be willing to give him $25-$30 million a year for 7-8 years both have stud 1B (Yanks & Sox) So any leverage he has will only help him leave STL but not for much more money or years. His options will be Cubs, LAD, Angels and Mets. I cant see any of them giving him what STL will! So hes actually going to settle for probably close to half what hes asking which is a round $30 per for 10 years! I think he will get 6 years $150-180 max. Yes thats a lot of money and its great but when ARod has gotten 100 year $252 and then 10 years $275 he deserves at least similar money!

[foodcourtdruide]

True but he is fucked by the fact that the 2 teams that would be willing to give him $25-$30 million a year for 7-8 years both have stud 1B (Yanks & Sox) So any leverage he has will only help him leave STL but not for much more money or years. His options will be Cubs, LAD, Angels and Mets. I cant see any of them giving him what STL will! So hes actually going to settle for probably close to half what hes asking which is a round $30 per for 10 years! I think he will get 6 years $150-180 max. Yes thats a lot of money and its great but when ARod has gotten 100 year $252 and then 10 years $275 he deserves at least similar money!

Agreed.

[cougarjake13]

True but he is fucked by the fact that the 2 teams that would be willing to give him $25-$30 million a year for 7-8 years both have stud 1B (Yanks & Sox) So any leverage he has will only help him leave STL but not for much more money or years. His options will be Cubs, LAD, Angels and Mets. I cant see any of them giving him what STL will! So hes actually going to settle for probably close to half what hes asking which is a round $30 per for 10 years! I think he will get 6 years $150-180 max. Yes thats a lot of money and its great but when ARod has gotten 100 year $252 and then 10 years $275 he deserves at least similar money!


does he deserve it ... yeh prob



but we dont live in that world anymore and i wouldnt give him a 10 yr deal

[spoon]

If anyone out there will get that type money it'll be Pujols. Truth be told, I see him going to the AL if he leaves St. Louis, a HUGE IF. Giving him a long-term contract isn't that big an issue in the AL with the DH option and don't rule out teams like the Angels, the White Sox, the Tigers and wild teams that randomly spend big like the Orioles. Not saying they are big players now, but pending on how the season plays out, other teams in the AL may get active as well...especially those with salary room to spare. Toronto? AHahhahaahahahah! They couldn't afford his son.

[Jayw]

If anyone out there will get that type money it'll be Pujols. Truth be told, I see him going to the AL if he leaves St. Louis, a HUGE IF. Giving him a long-term contract isn't that big an issue in the AL with the DH option and don't rule out teams like the Angels, the White Sox, the Tigers and wild teams that randomly spend big like the Orioles. Not saying they are big players now, but pending on how the season plays out, other teams in the AL may get active as well...especially those with salary room to spare. Toronto? AHahhahaahahahah! They couldn't afford his son.

As a true STL fan here is my take on the pujols thing.

10 years for 300 mill is a fucking lot (his demands). I know we have been getting a hell of a bargain on the guy but is it really the smartest decision to give a guy who is 31 a 10 year contract? If we do and he is injured it it will cripple our club for years to come. I love the guy like no other but I think that is a tad too much. If a 7 year deal could get done that would be the way to go. Him demanding a 10 year deal while commendable just seems outrageous. I hope the cardinals can work something out but I am doubting if it will get done by his 'deadline' this Wednesday. I really doubt he will get a 10 year deal for that money on the free agent market, and hopefully he wont get injured during the year if so.

Bernie said it best the other day St.louis post article (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_27472004-386c-11e0-8e5f-0017a4a78c22.html)

I would hate to see him go but is one man and one bad decision worth the potential health of your favorite team? Maybe in this case...

[KnoxHarrington]

As a true STL fan here is my take on the pujols thing.

10 years for 300 mill is a fucking lot (his demands). I know we have been getting a hell of a bargain on the guy but is it really the smartest decision to give a guy who is 31 a 10 year contract? If we do and he is injured it it will cripple our club for years to come. I love the guy like no other but I think that is a tad too much. If a 7 year deal could get done that would be the way to go. Him demanding a 10 year deal while commendable just seems outrageous. I hope the cardinals can work something out but I am doubting if it will get done by his 'deadline' this Wednesday. I really doubt he will get a 10 year deal for that money on the free agent market, and hopefully he wont get injured during the year if so.

Bernie said it best the other day St.louis post article (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_27472004-386c-11e0-8e5f-0017a4a78c22.html)

I would hate to see him go but is one man and one bad decision worth the potential health of your favorite team? Maybe in this case...

I know the Cardinals do have some cash to spend, but can they afford to carry a 30 million/year contract for Pujols and get other players around him?

The situation you want to avoid is what happened to the Reds after they signed Ken Griffey Jr, and that contact wasn't nearly as big as this one could be.

[Snacks]

As a true STL fan here is my take on the pujols thing.

10 years for 300 mill is a fucking lot (his demands). I know we have been getting a hell of a bargain on the guy but is it really the smartest decision to give a guy who is 31 a 10 year contract? If we do and he is injured it it will cripple our club for years to come. I love the guy like no other but I think that is a tad too much. If a 7 year deal could get done that would be the way to go. Him demanding a 10 year deal while commendable just seems outrageous. I hope the cardinals can work something out but I am doubting if it will get done by his 'deadline' this Wednesday. I really doubt he will get a 10 year deal for that money on the free agent market, and hopefully he wont get injured during the year if so.

Bernie said it best the other day St.louis post article (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_27472004-386c-11e0-8e5f-0017a4a78c22.html)

I would hate to see him go but is one man and one bad decision worth the potential health of your favorite team? Maybe in this case...

STL should pay him but they should cripple the team to do so. I think their biggest mistake was signing Matt Holiday to 7 years $120 million. I think that was over paying him. If Holiday could get $17 million a year then what is a guy who is one of the best ever and from your farm system worth when he has been underpaid for a few years? So you got to figure he deserves at least $25 to $30 million a year and how to do you not at least give him 7 years like you gave Holiday when they are the same age?

That all being said if I were STL I dont know if you can do that. That would be $41 million for 2 players over the next 7 years. If 1 or both go down you could kill your franchise for years!

[spoon]

Pujols Possibilities (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/the-market-for-albert-pujols.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+R umors%29)

Interesting look here.

[Snacks]

Pujols Possibilities (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/the-market-for-albert-pujols.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+R umors%29)

Interesting look here.

So what they are saying is there are 5 teams including the Cards who will spend the money to get him. I would love to see him go to the Nationals if he does leave!

If he went to Texas he would hit 50 HR's a year.

I no they have the Mets and LAD as long shots but you could probably put them closer to contenders. By next off season the Mets problems should be settled same with the LAD divorce!

[spoon]

So what they are saying is there are 5 teams including the Cards who will spend the money to get him. I would love to see him go to the Nationals if he does leave!

If he went to Texas he would hit 50 HR's a year.

I no they have the Mets and LAD as long shots but you could probably put them closer to contenders. By next off season the Mets problems should be settled same with the LAD divorce!

The problem with the Mets is they don't play in the AL (DH) and have a guy who looks to be pretty good at first. Ike Davis had a pretty nice rookie year at 19 hrs and 71rbis. The former 1st rounder should only improve at the plate and his d is above average already.

[midwestjeff]

I know you've all been waiting for my official statement on the Pujols situation, I can read it on your faces, so here you go.........

I'm a little disappointed at both sides but am looking forward
to having at least one more year with Pujols on the team.

For Pujols, I hope he doesn't try to keep up the "I love this place" rhetoric all year even if it is true. Keep those comments to yourself until you prove that you are willing to do anything to be a part of the team and the community. I don't hold it against him that he didn't sign but I also don't want to hear all of the "best organization to play for" crap when the truthfulness of those statements can now be questioned. Just play the game.

For the team, whatever happened to the big increase in payroll that was promised when they were fighting to get the new stadium built?

[cougarjake13]

The problem with the Mets is they don't play in the AL (DH) and have a guy who looks to be pretty good at first. Ike Davis had a pretty nice rookie year at 19 hrs and 71rbis. The former 1st rounder should only improve at the plate and his d is above average already.

id easily move davis back to the outfield from where he came to get pujols in here

[Barnaby Jones]

I know you've all been waiting for my official statement on the Pujols situation, I can read it on your faces, so here you go.........

I'm a little disappointed at both sides but am looking forward
to having at least one more year with Pujols on the team.

For Pujols, I hope he doesn't try to keep up the "I love this place" rhetoric all year even if it is true. Keep those comments to yourself until you prove that you are willing to do anything to be a part of the team and the community. I don't hold it against him that he didn't sign but I also don't want to hear all of the "best organization to play for" crap when the truthfulness of those statements can now be questioned. Just play the game.

For the team, whatever happened to the big increase in payroll that was promised when they were fighting to get the new stadium built?

A lot of it is probably still being sunk into developing that "Ballpark Village" nonsense!!!

Supposedly Pujols and his agent's issue was with the money and not the years being offered by the Cardinals because they were offering between $19-21 million a year...are they nuts?!?!?? How does a team with a fanbase that large that sells a ton of merch and tickets be so relatively stingy with their payroll?????

[Barnaby Jones]

id easily move davis back to the outfield from where he came to get pujols in here

Yeah, if it's for Pujols you say GTFO, he's playing first!!!

That's why you can't count the Yanks and Red Sox out!!! You make room for a player this great!!! Unless the Yanks are morons again and force him to change positions like they did with A-Rod because of Jeter!!!

[cougarjake13]

A lot of it is probably still being sunk into developing that "Ballpark Village" nonsense!!!

Supposedly Pujols and his agent's issue was with the money and not the years being offered by the Cardinals because they were offering between $19-21 million a year...are they nuts?!?!?? How does a team with a fanbase that large that sells a ton of merch and tickets be so relatively stingy with their payroll?????



inbev

[Snacks]

Spoon, what is your team thinking?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6129630&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_6129630

Why not wait and see how he does before giving him that much. The guy has been a bum his entire career. He had 1 incredible year (last year) and he still only hit .260 and that was 16 points higher then his career avg. He wanted $10 million for this year but instead they are close to a deal of 5 years $65 million?

And this is why the yankees kill everyone. They have the money to waste and get the top talent. Teams like the jays need to over pay the left overs or 2nd tier guys. If it doesnt work out the Jays will be done for years. If this same deal didnt work out with the yanks they would bench him and pay someone else to take his spot like they were replacing a lost cellphone, no big deal!

[Furtherman]

Detroit first baseman arrested on suspicion of drunken driving (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/02/17/cabrera.dui/index.html)

An arrest affidavit said Cabrera refused to submit to a breath test, cursed at officers and asked them, "Do you know who I am?" The baseball player also picked up a bottle of Scotch and began drinking from it while officers were present, according to the affidavit.

I was going to say "rookie mistake", but swiggin' the scotch too?! This guy IS a PRO.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Detroit first baseman arrested on suspicion of drunken driving (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/02/17/cabrera.dui/index.html)



I was going to say "rookie mistake", but swiggin' the scotch too?! This guy IS a PRO.

With the cash he is making it better be JW Blue Label

[spoon]

Jay's close to Batista signing (~5/65) (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110216&content_id=16659082&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

Not happy with the length at all, especially since the worst they could do was lose arbitration this year and he gets about 10 million. It's in line with the other contracts this year, less to be honest, but was last year an outlier year? I say no, but surely he'll fall back to more realistic numbers under a small-ball type manager versus a swing for the fences at all costs Cito later years era. My thoughts were to take the arb decision and make the call later based on a longer sample size. Sure the contract may go up, but if it gets so high they can't afford it, move him for more picks/prospects in a worst case scenario. Or perhaps he falls from grace totally and simply isn't worth even close to the contract being discussed.

Such an odd contract situation when you think about it, but I'm perplexed they went ~ 15 million per (especially years 4 & 5) when 10 is the tops for year 1 already. They couldn't work a better deal on a contract this long with one year at this level? Odd and scary to be honest. Yet the team has stated they will start to spend when it's right and may actually double salary in the next 2-4 years. A whole lot of that will be just keeping people for once, but definitely some new people.

[spoon]

Spoon, what is your team thinking?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6129630&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_6129630

Why not wait and see how he does before giving him that much. The guy has been a bum his entire career. He had 1 incredible year (last year) and he still only hit .260 and that was 16 points higher then his career avg. He wanted $10 million for this year but instead they are close to a deal of 5 years $65 million?

And this is why the yankees kill everyone. They have the money to waste and get the top talent. Teams like the jays need to over pay the left overs or 2nd tier guys. If it doesnt work out the Jays will be done for years. If this same deal didnt work out with the yanks they would bench him and pay someone else to take his spot like they were replacing a lost cellphone, no big deal!

Not sure how I missed this snacks sorry. But as you can tell, we agree on some major points.

[Earlshog]

Detroit first baseman arrested on suspicion of drunken driving (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/02/17/cabrera.dui/index.html)



I was going to say "rookie mistake", but swiggin' the scotch too?! This guy IS a PRO.

How do you not love this guy. The cops roll up and see his crashed up smoking car and instead of trying to pull it together he is so shitfaced he is taking pulls off a bottle of Scotch in front of the cops.

Now thats a man with a drinking problem :drunk:

[Jayw]

How do you not love this guy. The cops roll up and see his crashed up smoking car and instead of trying to pull it together he is so shitfaced he is taking pulls off a bottle of Scotch in front of the cops.

Now thats a man with a drinking problem :drunk:

What is it lately with athletes lately pulling the "Do you know who I am?" card. Does it ever work when you say it like that??? Highly doubtful. If anything it just pisses the cops off more.

Awesome story though.

[TheGameHHH]

How do you not love this guy. The cops roll up and see his crashed up smoking car and instead of trying to pull it together he is so shitfaced he is taking pulls off a bottle of Scotch in front of the cops.

Now thats a man with a drinking problem :drunk:

I feel sorry for him, this is obviously a serious problem he is battling. He needs help ASAP and if he doesn't get it a gifted baseball career may be cut short. He might not be so lucky as to walk away from a smoking car next time.

[hanso]

Wonder if the Marlins saw that something was brewing with Cabrera. The players they got for him have been busts though.

[Snacks]

Wonder if the Marlins saw that something was brewing with Cabrera. The players they got for him have been busts though.

They traded him what 3 or 4 seasons ago now?

[cougarjake13]

Wonder if the Marlins saw that something was brewing with Cabrera. The players they got for him have been busts though.

They traded him what 3 or 4 seasons ago now?


trade was 3 yrs ago youre right

maybin's been ok

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2010/news/story?id=4956736

[hanso]

This is the 2nd time.


Maybin's not off to a good start on his new team. Saying that the food joint the owner was head of made him sick.


He wasn't very good. And was given many chances, the same will happen on the west coast.


Yes he had some moments but those were few and far between.

[spoon]

I feel sorry for him, this is obviously a serious problem he is battling. He needs help ASAP and if he doesn't get it a gifted baseball career may be cut short. He might not be so lucky as to walk away from a smoking car next time.

If this happened in New York, that car gets a fine.

[midwestjeff]

Edmonds officially retires. (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110218&content_id=16676178&vkey=news_stl&c_id=stl)

I was looking forward to seeing him make one more run at it.

Best center fielder ever? Maybe.

[Snacks]

Edmonds officially retires. (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110218&content_id=16676178&vkey=news_stl&c_id=stl)

I was looking forward to seeing him make one more run at it.

Best center fielder ever? Maybe.

Yes I think so. He always seems to get ranked behind Andrew Jones, Griffey and Mays. He shouldnt! I still say he had the best catch in the history of the sport!

This catch (at 1:10 in the video)

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JNcM7g9SQ3w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

is better then this one

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7dK6zPbkFnE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

To me there should be no argument about the better catch. You want to argue Mays catch was more important? Yes it was because it was the World Series but Edmonds made the same catch but diving and laying his entire body out puts it over the top!

[TripleSkeet]

Edmonds officially retires. (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110218&content_id=16676178&vkey=news_stl&c_id=stl)

I was looking forward to seeing him make one more run at it.

Best center fielder ever? Maybe.

Hes had some incredible plays, but I think Mickey Mantle and Ken Griffey Jr. would have something to say about.

[cougarjake13]

Edmonds officially retires. (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110218&content_id=16676178&vkey=news_stl&c_id=stl)

I was looking forward to seeing him make one more run at it.

Best center fielder ever? Maybe.


he stil coulda dh'd

[spoon]

Hes had some incredible plays, but I think Mickey Mantle and Ken Griffey Jr. would have something to say about.

Jr. easily.

[Snoogans]

TAMPA, Fla. -- Yankees co-chairman Hank Steinbrenner says baseball's revenue sharing and luxury tax programs need changes, and that commissioner Bud Selig is open to the idea.

Steinbrenner said on Monday that he doesn't know what the final figure is, but expects the Yankees' 2010 payments for the two to total about $130 million.

"We've got to do a little something about that, and I know Bud wants to correct it in some way," Steinbrenner said. "Obviously, we're very much allies with the Red Sox and the Mets, the Dodgers, the Cubs, whoever in that area."

"At some point, if you don't want to worry about teams in minor markets, don't put teams in minor markets, or don't leave teams in minor markets if they're truly minor," Steinbrenner said. "Socialism, communism, whatever you want to call it, is never the answer."

[A.J.]

"At some point, if you don't want to worry about teams in minor markets, don't put teams in minor markets, or don't leave teams in minor markets if they're truly minor," Steinbrenner said. "Socialism, communism, whatever you want to call it, is never the answer."

I wonder if he's going to show up at Tea Party rallies with a poster of Bud Selig with a Hitler mustache.

[NickyL0885]

TAMPA, Fla. -- Yankees co-chairman Hank Steinbrenner says baseball's revenue sharing and luxury tax programs need changes, and that commissioner Bud Selig is open to the idea.

Steinbrenner said on Monday that he doesn't know what the final figure is, but expects the Yankees' 2010 payments for the two to total about $130 million.

"We've got to do a little something about that, and I know Bud wants to correct it in some way," Steinbrenner said. "Obviously, we're very much allies with the Red Sox and the Mets, the Dodgers, the Cubs, whoever in that area."

"At some point, if you don't want to worry about teams in minor markets, don't put teams in minor markets, or don't leave teams in minor markets if they're truly minor," Steinbrenner said. "Socialism, communism, whatever you want to call it, is never the answer."

That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read. Teams like the Pirates aren't bad b/c of their market. It's the owners. Doesn't matter which market you're in. If the owner doesn't spend, then the teams won't be good.

[spoon]

That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read. Teams like the Pirates aren't bad b/c of their market. It's the owners. Doesn't matter which market you're in. If the owner doesn't spend, then the teams won't be good.

No, they're bad bc of the system and lack of cap/floor. The owners have a choice, spend more, lose money now and still lose on the field or do what they are doing and make a few bucks barely due to small rev sharing. I blame the system that doesn't encourage spending unless your in a division where the ceiling is lower or you're willing to go REAL high. 150/75 and the league if fixed. That simple.

[spoon]

And of course Selig is willing to help out the yankees, it's all he's done since fucking day one. From George's issues to cap issues he is pretty much on the yank's payroll.

[NickyL0885]

No, they're bad bc of the system and lack of cap/floor. The owners have a choice, spend more, lose money now and still lose on the field or do what they are doing and make a few bucks barely due to small rev sharing. I blame the system that doesn't encourage spending unless your in a division where the ceiling is lower or you're willing to go REAL high. 150/75 and the league if fixed. That simple.

Sadly, baseball will never get a cap. Players wont go for it.

[spoon]

Sadly, baseball will never get a cap. Players wont go for it.

It's more the MLBPA leaders and it's stupid overall. A cap/floor system brings more money to the players then it takes as I've shown before. In a 175/75 system only one team comes down, more than 10 come up. 150/75 is almost the same.

[spoon]

not to mention no cap in mlb only means we as fans get fucked at the gate

The owners will pass it on, even nyy passed it on and the money to build it's stadium came from a combo of taxes, lux tax and keeping it's own fucking rev sharing for fucks sake. Like a storm in the Gulf does for oil , it was a phantom price driver for seats and vending items alike at the new stadium.

[Jayw]

WHY GOD

Wainwright out for the fucking year?!??!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6150113

[Snoogans]

ouch, thats rough. Hey the sox got some extra pitchers. all yours, free of charge. here is the list

Josh Beckett
John Lakey
Dice K
Papelbon


whichever one you want, its yours. or all of them

[A.J.]

ouch, thats rough. Hey the sox got some extra pitchers. all yours, free of charge. here is the list

Josh Beckett
John Lakey
Dice K
Papelbon


whichever one you want, its yours. or all of them

DON'T BE JINXIN'.

[Snoogans]

DON'T BE JINXIN'.

i hope i jinx those 4. they all eat cock

[midwestjeff]

WHY GOD

Wainwright out for the fucking year?!??!

Uggh. I waited ALL winter for this? Stupid game.

Also, if I have to read shit like this,
"Every time the Cards lose, people will wonder if he'll look to leave for greener pastures. Every injury, every setback, every time the clubhouse cooler isn't stocked with his favorite beverage ... basically every time birds aren't chirping, the sun isn't shining and the Cards aren't quite clicking, people will wonder if Pujols will bolt.",
all season I am going to shoot someone.

Yes, the loss of Wainright is huge, but can we stop with "Pujols questions" angles?
What a bunch of manufactured drama.

[Jayw]

Uggh. I waited ALL winter for this? Stupid game.

Also, if I have to read shit like this,
"Every time the Cards lose, people will wonder if he'll look to leave for greener pastures. Every injury, every setback, every time the clubhouse cooler isn't stocked with his favorite beverage ... basically every time birds aren't chirping, the sun isn't shining and the Cards aren't quite clicking, people will wonder if Pujols will bolt.",
all season I am going to shoot someone.

Yes, the loss of Wainright is huge, but can we stop with "Pujols questions" angles?
What a bunch of manufactured drama.

Seriously.

The only upside to wainwrights injury is people might stfu about pujols for a week. What a great start to the season...

unbelievable though, wainwright, really? is this real life? sigh...

[spoon]

Tough hit your Cards took there JayW. Wainwright is a top notch pitcher to say the least.

[KnoxHarrington]

It's more the MLBPA leaders and it's stupid overall. A cap/floor system brings more money to the players then it takes as I've shown before. In a 175/75 system only one team comes down, more than 10 come up. 150/75 is almost the same.

The MLBPA has always seemed far more interested in protecting the megadollar contracts of players like A-Rod and Pujols than in doing what's good for the bigger majority of players in the league.

Like you say here, put in a cap/floor system, and you might not see $25-$30M a year contracts anymore, but I think overall more money would be going to the players because some garbage franchise that's just pocketing the Yankees' luxury tax checks now, like the Royals or Pirates, will be forced to give that back to the players. So you might see a lot more $3-$5M a year contracts out there.

[spoon]

Ok, now ur just messing with me right?! Lux tax has nothing to do with that.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No link but I just saw on MLB network. RIP Duke Snider

[cougarjake13]

No link but I just saw on MLB network. RIP Duke Snider



rip budday


i think i still have his autograph from a book signing he did

[cougarjake13]

Ok, now ur just messing with me right?! Lux tax has nothing to do with that.

no but i think he's saying that there should be a rule that mandates that the owners use the lux tax money only to re invest back into them team,

preferably on mlb players rather than pocket it or else they lose it and the teams putting in the lux tax money, usually the yanks would get the money back

[TripleSkeet]

no but i think he's saying that there should be a rule that mandates that the owners use the lux tax money only to re invest back into them team,

preferably on mlb players rather than pocket it or else they lose it and the teams putting in the lux tax money, usually the yanks would get the money back

If thats the case I completely agree with him.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

rip budday


i think i still have his autograph from a book signing he did

Carl Erskine is the last of the more famous Brooklyn Bums if I'm correct.


I know Koufax started in Brooklyn but he got his name recognition in LA

[spoon]

no but i think he's saying that there should be a rule that mandates that the owners use the lux tax money only to re invest back into them team,

preferably on mlb players rather than pocket it or else they lose it and the teams putting in the lux tax money, usually the yanks would get the money back

If thats the case I completely agree with him.

You guys are off still. Lux tax doesn't go to teams at all. It's a common misconception that drives me nuts. You are talking about rev sharing, and every fucking league has it in some form or another. MLB has the lowest of all major leagues by far already. So no, I don't agree AT ALL.

[spoon]

Cost per win? (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/marlins-rays-rangers-lead-baseballs-value-pack-2011-03-01)

[hanso]

MLB Network Launches on AT&T U-verse TV‎ - 1 day ago
"We're proud to add MLB Network to the U-verse TV lineup for baseball fans in a coma from not having baseball games to watch on tv.


Fan-efing-tastic!

[razorboy]

Oof. Manny just blistered a line drive off of Oswalt's head/neck area. Looked painful.

[Crispy123]

My wife works in a salon here in Viera, Fl and she did a facial on Steve Strasburgs fiancee yesterday. Also my neighbor saw the 2 of them the day before at Publix and he signed a ball for my neighbors 7 y/o boy. I thought that was neat.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/de/fullj.e31f0f5876df4c16bc89c75c092ba288/e31f0f5876df4c16bc89c75c092ba288-getty-108029790ab018_washington_n.jpg

[TheGameHHH]

My wife works in a salon here in Viera, Fl and she did a facial on Steve Strasburgs fiancee yesterday. Also my neighbor saw the 2 of them the day before at Publix and he signed a ball for my neighbors 7 y/o boy. I thought that was neat.

moral of the story? Strasburg's wife LOVES facials.

[spoon]

moral of the story? Strasburg's wife LOVES facials.

I thought it was Crispy's wife gives them? :unsure:

[TripleSkeet]

Oof. Manny just blistered a line drive off of Oswalt's head/neck area. Looked painful.

Neck bruise. He'll live.

[Crispy123]

moral of the story? Strasburg's wife LOVES facials.

I thought it was Crispy's wife gives them? :unsure:

Oh you guys.

But seriously, between the 2 of them, there was a lot of cum.

[Earlshog]

http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/28370837

Manny Ramirez retires after drug issue

[Dan 'Hampton]

Guess this means I won't go through with my class action lawsuit against the '03 Yanks for winning the pennant.

[TheGameHHH]

So Manny got suspended 50 games already and if he stayed active he would have gotten the 100 game suspension. Given today's climate of the shitty writers association, is he HOF bound? I'm not asking you to rattle off stats, we all know he was a terrific right handed hitter. But will he get in?

[brettmojo]

Guess this means I won't go through with my class action lawsuit against the '03 Yanks for winning the pennant.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee103/brettmojo/2427ejqjpg.gif

[underdog]

So Manny got suspended 50 games already and if he stayed active he would have gotten the 100 game suspension. Given today's climate of the shitty writers association, is he HOF bound? I'm not asking you to rattle off stats, we all know he was a terrific right handed hitter. But will he get in?


He should be, without a doubt. He won't be, though. He probably won't get in.

[Dan 'Hampton]

He should be, without a doubt. He won't be, though. He probably won't get in.



As long as ALL the players linked to it are kept out I'm fine with that.

[Snacks]

As long as ALL the players linked to it are kept out I'm fine with that.

but they wont. ARod will get in and so will Bonds.

I think in 10-15 years most people will realize this is a steroid era and vote in players that deserve to get in even if they have ties to steroids. Its the current writers who wont but the next generation will care less.

[TheGameHHH]

but they wont. ARod will get in and so will Bonds.

I think in 10-15 years most people will realize this is a steroid era and vote in players that deserve to get in even if they have ties to steroids. Its the current writers who wont but the next generation will care less.

right, but you only get a certain amount of chances before you have to go before the veterans committee and they're likely to be even worse on the steroid era guys. this generation of belief may last long enough to keep those guys out for good.

[underdog]

right, but you only get a certain amount of chances before you have to go before the veterans committee and they're likely to be even worse on the steroid era guys. this generation of belief may last long enough to keep those guys out for good.

I think they'll be better off when they get to the Veterans Committee. Right now, they're being voted on by self-important douchebag baseball writers. I think they'll have better luck with players, who probably would have done anything to get an edge, voting on them.

[A.J.]

I'm going to lock this since it's not the offseason anymore.