Is our knowledge premium in society good?

[epo]

Personally I think our society is continuously evolving, but I think we've seen a radical evolution in the past 20 years. Our societies have completed devalued labor and placed a premium upon knowledge. The "knowledge-based" economy is now the ideal model, versus the "manufacturing-based" economy that was dominant in my childhood.

My question is: Is this a good thing?

[GregoryJoseph]

Personally I think our society is continuously evolving, but I think we've seen a radical evolution in the past 20 years. Our societies have completed devalued labor and placed a premium upon knowledge. The "knowledge-based" economy is now the ideal model, versus the "manufacturing-based" economy that was dominant in my childhood.

My question is: Is this a good thing?

Not at all.

[IMSlacker]

I worship knowledge.

[Knowledged_one]

I worship knowledge.

really I am honored


And not to get political and make it that way - but wasnt that the thing Clinton wanted when NAFTA was signed is that the manufacturing jobs went to Mexico and the blue collar guys were moved into more tech type jobs. The problem is that we are now at a place where there is no evolution to the tech jobs that get shipped overseas and it has casued stagnation

Alien invasion or massive war is the only way to really spurn a new revolution or age of a new premium in the world

[GregoryJoseph]

What we're doing is spawning generations of Americans that have no idea how to provide for themselves.

We've become a nation of pencil pushers, relying on the rest of the planet to give us the material things we need to survive.

It's backwards thinking.

[JohnCharles]

Balance it out.

Leave the knowledge for a select few and put the rest to work.

[epo]

What we're doing is spawning generations of Americans that have no idea how to provide for themselves.

We've become a nation of pencil pushers, relying on the rest of the planet to give us the material things we need to survive.

It's backwards thinking.

I'll give you a two pence for my lunch.

[Dell]

What we're doing is spawning generations of Americans that have no idea how to provide for themselves.

We've become a nation of pencil pushers, relying on the rest of the planet to give us the material things we need to survive.

It's backwards thinking.

it is actually looked on by many as a failure when children don't go to college now...a neighbor almost sounded ashamed that his son took an apprenticeship at a machine shop after high school...I agree that it is backward thinking...

[Hottub]

The world needs ditch diggers too, you know.

http://bugehoobs.com/img/upload/cache/480x360_139767506148073e4435ed5.jpg

[sailor]

What we're doing is spawning generations of Americans that have no idea how to provide for themselves.

We've become a nation of pencil pushers, relying on the rest of the planet to give us the material things we need to survive.

It's backwards thinking.

they're providing for themselves, just not in the way you like.

so, in our labor relationship with mexico or thailand, you are envious of the other side?

[biggirl]

not everyone is capable of being knowledgeable.

[STC-Dub]

There still has to be manufacturing. A diversified economy is the best, but you are more self-sufficient if you are a manufacturing economy than a knowledge based one because ideas do not make things.

[Suspect Chin]

The college degree has become the new high school diploma. You have little hope of getting a decent job without a college degree but the 'educated' job market is nearly saturated. I don't know how this country sustains itself.

[Suspect Chin]

ideas do not make things.

No, Vietnamese children do.

[topless_mike]

you can read about it, study it, jack to it, but until you've physically done it, you havent accomplished shit.

no. labor > knowledge

[Suspect Chin]

you can read about it, study it, jack to it, but until you've physically done it, you havent accomplished shit.

no. labor > knowledge

If labor > knowledge, we would still live in caves.

[iSpider]

If labor > knowledge, we would still live in caves.

You can sit and think in a cave,
But if you're living in a house, it was built using labor...

[topless_mike]

If labor > knowledge, we would still live in caves.

its because man went out and did shit rather than sit there and say "yeah, i know how to do that" that we dont live in caves.

[Suspect Chin]

its because man went out and did shit rather than sit there and say "yeah, i know how to do that" that we dont live in caves.

So he just banged two rocks together and eventually the semiconductor popped out?

[iSpider]

So he just banged two rocks together and eventually the semiconductor popped out?

houses are made from semiconductors...???

[mikeyboy]

So he just banged two rocks together and eventually the semiconductor popped out?

Yes.

Funny story...

[topless_mike]

i think we may have gone off topic.
re-reading, i think eep's may have meant the service industy economy of today vs the labor/manufacturing industy of past. am i right?


bang to rocks together fire comes out. semi conductors have nothing to do with it.

[Knowledged_one]

The college degree has become the new high school diploma. You have little hope of getting a decent job without a college degree but the 'educated' job market is nearly saturated. I don't know how this country sustains itself.

I can do you one better, jobs that require security clearances.

If you need a security clearance to get a job the company has to pay for it, but you cant get a job needing a clearance till you have a clearance, so unless you find one that will allow you to start and do the process you are screwed.

And with all the layoffs in this country, and people not being able to pay bills, the rules for security clearances will soon change because people will be denied clearance based on credit scores

[Suspect Chin]

i think we may have gone off topic.
re-reading, i think eep's may have meant the service industy economy of today vs the labor/manufacturing industy of past. am i right?


bang to rocks together fire comes out. semi conductors have nothing to do with it.

Yes you're right. That was the initial topic.

I agree we are traveling down a dangerous road shipping all of our labor overseas.

This can end one of two ways:

1. An enormous class division with waiters at the bottom and entrepreneurs at the top.
2. A sustained middle class full of extremely underpaid/indebted educated people.

[FrogSlayer]

I am proud to be a laborer, every dollar I earn is produced by me. Often it isn't enough because the labor force is overstocked with potential employees and / or competitors driving the price down. I have seen a lot of "knowledge" types moving back into the "labor" sector.
bad thing giving away our pride in manufacturing
bad thing giving our jobs away
bad thing our society can't be happy with meager expectations for life

I don't think I will ever want a job where I won't need a shower badly at the end of the day. That would make me fat and bored. I also have an incredible lust for knowledge, the only books I read are manuals and textbooks, because I want to be able to learn and do EVERYTHING for myself. Nothing bothers me more than hiring someone who's tools cost less than he is charging. I will buy the tools and I will aquire the knowledge.

[boosterp]

Yes you're right. That was the initial topic.

I agree we are traveling down a dangerous road shipping all of our labor overseas.

This can end one of two ways:

1. An enormous class division with waiters at the bottom and entrepreneurs at the top.
2. A sustained middle class full of extremely underpaid/indebted educated people.

This I agree with. We are just beginning to see the class gaps grow, difficulty obtaining a job after college, and that the middle class is underpaid (two working parents being required not desired) and inability to maintain long term employment.

[Recyclerz]

Personally I think our society is continuously evolving, but I think we've seen a radical evolution in the past 20 years. Our societies have completed devalued labor and placed a premium upon knowledge. The "knowledge-based" economy is now the ideal model, versus the "manufacturing-based" economy that was dominant in my childhood.

My question is: Is this a good thing?

I'm not sure that it is an either/or thing. For any economy to succeed now and into the future it has to have a strong and deep layer of knowledge workers; whether they work in manufacturing, logistics, R&D, whatever - just depends of where you happen to be in the business cycle.

Pining away for the "good old days" where a sizable portion of the population could make a decent middle class salary working in factories making mass produced goods in this country is more dated than a Blowhard call into the show, I'm afraid. The economic conditions that allowed a big "blue collar" middle class and that most people even today consider the "normal" state of things were, in retrospect, really an unsustainable historical anomaly. From the end of WW2 to the mid '70's the standard of living of most Americans shot up because we had the only big working economy so a good fraction of the monoply profits flowed down to labor. Now that the rest of the world has caught up or passed us in most important human capital areas and that capital capital is really a global phenomenon rather than a national one, the foundations for our aggregate standard of living is washing away under our feet. The concept of "our" jobs being shipped away is an anachronism. The economic system that we've chosen, or rather the system that was chosen by those running the multi-national corporations and that we've assented to by our silence, WTO rules and globalized capital markets, leave us no choice but to start running harder just to not fall further behind.

Certain jobs have to stay local - skilled labor, nursing, etc. But we're finding out pretty quickly that there aren't many types of other jobs, including, and I would say especially, "knowledge workers" that can't be sourced globally. My suggestion to you all is pick a job that you're good at and be prepared to hustle at it for the rest of your life.

Sweet dreams! :innocent:

[midwestjeff]

My suggestion to you all is pick a job that you're good at and be prepared to hustle at it for the rest of your life.

Thank god I'm an excellent pool player.

[Recyclerz]

Thank god I'm an excellent pool player.

Yep, that's what this guy thought.

http://www.miconian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-color-of-money.jpg

[Fez4PrezN2008]

I work for a co. that actually makes product here in USA that is sold in stores from mostly US raw material. The only catch... foreign owned. But still, its next to the best so we need more sustainable mfg here. Needs to be a balance of actual jobs and fake jobs.

[Dude!]

i have no opinion on this
but i will say
"Is our knowledge premium in society good?"
is the most awkwardly-worded
thread title in RF.net history

[TheMojoPin]

I voted "no," but I don't think it's really a yes or no question. I think we've weakened our economy with the loss of "blue collar" jobs, but there's a ton of value from a knowledge-based economy as well. I'd prefer a middle ground the utilizes both instead of one or the other.

[disneyspy]

its not really knowledge,its just education

[A.J.]

http://rlv.zcache.com/faber_college_knowledge_is_good_tshirt-p235744050321891572su96_400.jpg

[A.J.]

I can do you one better, jobs that require security clearances.

If you need a security clearance to get a job the company has to pay for it, but you cant get a job needing a clearance till you have a clearance, so unless you find one that will allow you to start and do the process you are screwed.

Ugh -- don't remind me of those nightmare days.