Global Warming Debate

[Barnaby Jones]

Beware of those CFL Lightbulbs that your overlords in the federal government will require in the next few years

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/10/3615738/telstar-recalls-energy-saving.html


How we allow our dear leaders to enact laws to ban incandescent lightbulbs on private property which harm no one is beyond me,

A little mercury in fish people go batshit. Drop a CFL bulb, dont worry just be careful cleaning up the mess.

Dont even compare this to recalled cars. In 2014 buying cars will remain voluntary. Who knows maybe Chevy volts will be mandatory

This is so hilarious!!! He thinks one brand doing a recall means they're all bad bulbs!!! Even funnier is the recall was the result of a government agency he probably wants to slash and burn!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is so hilarious!!! He thinks one brand doing a recall means they're all bad bulbs!!! Even funnier is the recall was the result of a government agency he probably wants to slash and burn!!!!

What is hiliarious is you bowing to your masters to dictate how you light your home.

Then again I wouldnt have to rely on the CPSC. If I heard about massive light bulb fires, the incandescent lightbulb above my head would say, do not buy them.


But back to the main topic. Just kill the choices and give your consent to allow top down 1 size fits all government to decide on something as basic as a lightbulb

[Dudeman]

If I heard about massive light bulb fires, the incandescent lightbulb above my head would say, do not buy them.


What if it was your house or your parent's house that burnt down?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What if it was your house or your parent's house that burnt down?

I bought a ton of incandascent light bulbs. Hopefully this law will be repealed

[StanUpshaw]

What if it was your house or your parent's house that burnt down?

If you want to make an argument for the necessity of government as a consumer advocate, light bulbs are a pretty shitty example.

http://i.imgur.com/3cfzq.gif

[Dudeman]

If you want to make an argument for the necessity of government as a consumer advocate


I'm not depending on light bulbs for that argument. But thanks for your concern.

[Barnaby Jones]

But back to the main topic. Just kill the choices and give your consent to allow top down 1 size fits all government to decide on something as basic as a lightbulb

Agreed!!! This just proves that too many people are too fucking stupid to even pick the right bulb!!! You need all the help you can get, DubyaEff, because you're going to be a moron based on some twisted sense of pride!!!! "Duhhhhh, me get worse product because me choose to, duuuuhhhhh!!!"

[Dudeman]

Agreed!!! This just proves that too many people are too fucking stupid to even pick the right bulb!!! You need all the help you can get, DubyaEff, because you're going to be a moron based on some twisted sense of pride!!!! "Duhhhhh, me get worse product because me choose to, duuuuhhhhh!!!"

If there is a choice, morons always pick what's best for themselves in the here and now, never able to appreciate the bigger picture.

[StanUpshaw]

As opposed to the absolutely STELLAR record of the central planners.

[Dudeman]

If you want to make an argument for the necessity of government as a consumer advocate, light bulbs are a pretty shitty example

How about 2008 stock market crash?

(How'd the free market work out for you there? Rather have government bailout than some government oversight?)

[StanUpshaw]

Yep, the free market would've done much better. Prove me wrong.

:rolleyes:

It's a retarded argument to have. We only have one set of data, and that data is too complex to tease out anything conclusive about what role regulation played in the crash, what role more/different regulation would have played, and what role stimulus actually had.

We can't do much better than heuristics, and generally speaking, planned economies have been the drizzling shits, and market economies have brought prosperity to billions.

[Dudeman]

generally speaking, planned economies have been the drizzling shits, and market economies have brought prosperity to billions.

Who's speaking generally? It isn't all or none. It is finding the happy medium.

(Unless you're WF and you always argue for 100% none.)

[StanUpshaw]

We're talking about something as immense and complex as national economies. Explain how we can make any sort of accurate judgments on specific legislation. I mean...if you have chaos figured out...by all means, let us know. But if not, the broad view is about the best you can do. For example...

East Germany: Blows
Hong Kong: K-rad

[hanso]

So those on the right are getting worked up over this light deal? When there are savings to be had along the lines of energy. This is always the reaction. It shows how they want waste. And to stay at the teat of big oil.

[StanUpshaw]

Run along now, the adults are talking.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who's speaking generally? It isn't all or none. It is finding the happy medium.

(Unless you're WF and you always argue for 100% none.)


Happy medium like banning a certain type of bulb ?

[Dudeman]

We're talking about something as immense and complex as national economies. Explain how we can make any sort of accurate judgments on specific legislation. I mean...if you have chaos figured out...by all means, let us know. But if not, the broad view is about the best you can do. For example...

East Germany: Blows
Hong Kong: K-rad

You're arguing against a straw man... no one is advocating for east germany here.

And I disagree that when an issue is complicated that it means you should fall back and rely on black and white descriptions. From that argument, we should just say cancer is too complex, why bother trying to understand it and find interventions. Instead, you try to understand the problem, try to create solutions, test the solutions- knowing that they will have success and failure, and then modify those solutions based on results and new findings. You know, the scientific method. Government oversight vs. free-market isn't all or none. There is no magic formula for finding the right amount of either. But clearly demonizing all free-market solutions or all government oversight is not the starting point. Instead the starting point is recognizing the need and weaknesses of both.

[StanUpshaw]

You're arguing against a straw man... no one is advocating for east germany here.

And I disagree that when an issue is complicated that it means you should fall back and rely on black and white descriptions. From that argument, we should just say cancer is too complex, why bother trying to understand it and find interventions. Instead, you try to understand the problem, try to create solutions, test the solutions- knowing that they will have success and failure, and then modify those solutions based on results and new findings. You know, the scientific method. Government oversight vs. free-market isn't all or none. There is no magic formula for finding the right amount of either. But clearly demonizing all free-market solutions or all government oversight is not the starting point. Instead the starting point is recognizing the need and weaknesses of both.

I agree 100%. That's the reasoning I always use when arguing for a weak national government. The states should be laboratories for testing hypotheses. Invariably the response that I get is something along the lines of "if we did that, the South would still have slavery" or some such nonsense.

Our system is far too top-down, and completely antithetical to the scientific method.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How about 2008 stock market crash?

(How'd the free market work out for you there? Rather have government bailout than some government oversight?)

Ask the people at Lehman how a gov't bailout worked.


Its nothing more than rewarding the palm greasers. Why are there so many from Citi and Goldman cozy with the Fed govt? You can reference, Bob Rubin, Hank Paulson, Lloyd Blankfein as examples

And also cant mention bailout without mentioning GE and GM

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Agreed!!! This just proves that too many people are too fucking stupid to even pick the right bulb!!! You need all the help you can get, DubyaEff, because you're going to be a moron based on some twisted sense of pride!!!! "Duhhhhh, me get worse product because me choose to, duuuuhhhhh!!!"

Now if it was truly up to the market. I would be one choosing the incandescent lightbulb in which if it drops, I dont have to worry about mercury spilling. Now if you want to by CFL bulbs because it makes you feel self righteous, maybe a bit hip then that would be your choice


A top down government killing a type of lightbulb only to mandate bulbs in which most are made in china is letting the market work?

[hanso]

Now if it was truly up to the market. I would be one choosing the incandescent lightbulb in which if it drops, I dont have to worry about mercury spilling. Now if you want to by CFL bulbs because it makes you feel self righteous, maybe a bit hip then that would be your choice


A top down government killing a type of lightbulb only to mandate bulbs in which most are made in china is letting the market work?

This is the only way to be a true hypster.

[Syd]

Now if it was truly up to the market. I would be one choosing the incandescent lightbulb in which if it drops, I dont have to worry about mercury spilling. Now if you want to by CFL bulbs because it makes you feel self righteous, maybe a bit hip then that would be your choice


A top down government killing a type of lightbulb only to mandate bulbs in which most are made in china is letting the market work?

So it's better to use more energy, causing us to buy more oil from countries like Venezuela who are full of illegal immigrants?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Tapping our own resources would allow the market to work. Venezualans make up a tiny percent of illegals

[StanUpshaw]

So it's better to use more energy, causing us to buy more oil from countries like Venezuela who are full of illegal immigrants?

I know you're just shitting on WF, nevertheless, you should be factual.

Less than 1% of electricity is generated by burning oil.

In reality, using incandescent bulbs reduces oil consumption, do to the fact that they produce so much waste heat. In the winter, they contribute significantly to heating up a room, reducing the BTUs your furnace has to output. If you use oil heat, then that is a direct reduction in oil consumption.

In the summer, obviously they still heat up the room, but cooling is done almost exclusively by electricity.

[hanso]

Tapping our own resources would allow the market to work. Venezualans make up a tiny percent of illegals

It's a world market Venezualans could buy it.

[Earlshog]

http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2011-05/preparing-climate-change-chicago-adapting-itself-warmer-weather

The New York Times had an excellent article yesterday with regards to climate change and the effects it is having on city planning in Chicago.

Couple tidbits

*If world carbon emissions continued apace, the scientists said, Chicago would have summers like the Deep South, with as many as 72 days over 90 degrees before the end of the century. For most of the 20th century, the city averaged fewer than 15.

*By 2070, Chicago could expect 35 percent more precipitation in winter and spring, but 20 percent less in summer and fall. By then, the conditions would have changed enough to make the area’s plant hardiness zone akin to Birmingham, Ala.

[Dude!]

By 2070, Chicago could expect 35 percent more precipitation in winter and spring, but 20 percent less in summer and fall. By then, the conditions would have changed enough to make the area’s plant hardiness zone akin to Birmingham, Ala.

chicago could have avoided
an enormous number of problems
if this had happened 70 years ago

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The debate is not over.

http://climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore


The trend of violent tornadoes down in past 60 years


http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/05/todays-tornado-outlook-high-risk-of-global-warming-hype/

[Dude!]

The debate is not over.

http://climatedepot.com/a/9035/SPECIAL-REPORT-More-Than-1000-International-Scientists-Dissent-Over-ManMade-Global-Warming-Claims--Challenge-UN-IPCC--Gore


The trend of violent tornadoes down in past 60 years


http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/05/todays-tornado-outlook-high-risk-of-global-warming-hype/

the dummies blamed Katrina
on 'global warming' and said
it was just the start of years
of horrendous hurricances

we have just had 5 of
the quietest hurricane seasons
on record

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Guess who wants to kill the auto industry

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/13d_xZTngek" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Sure, people in big sky country like Montana will want to take high speed rail. Does this fat bastard realize people live there because they want open space.

[Syd]

I know you're just shitting on WF, nevertheless, you should be factual.

Less than 1% of electricity is generated by burning oil.

True, I was just being a dick, but, all energy uses oil even if it isn't directly burning it to turn a turbine. Coal fired plants still require massive trainloads of coal, for example.

CFL and LED should just be how it is because energy is expensive and it is in society's best interest to reduce consumption of an increasingly scarce resource.

[Syd]

My one question is to those that deny climate change is a man-made phenomenon:

What is happening to the carbon we're pulling out from deep underground? When it is burned, what happens to it? Does the waste from it simply vanish?

[NewYorkDragons80]

Sure, people in big sky country like Montana will want to take high speed rail. Does this fat bastard realize people live there because they want open space.

Where was that in your video?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Polar ice caps melting. Concern about seals in warm water. We are all going to die!!!!!!


http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/16/you-ask-i-provide-november-2nd-1922-arctic-ocean-getting-warm-seals-vanish-and-icebergs-melt/

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Where was that in your video?

He's calling for Obama to have a national high speed rail system by executive order. Executive orders affect the country

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Michelle Bachmann aint the only one batshit crazy




http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/28/gore-global-warming-skeptics-are-this-generations-racists/

[StanUpshaw]

I'll do you one better:

Biden: ‘If We Don’t Develop Renewable Energy, We Will Make the Biggest Mistake in This Nation’s History’ (http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/08/30/308030/biden-if-we-dont-develop-renewable-energy-we-will-make-the-biggest-mistake-in-this-nations-history/)

[A.J.]

Michelle Bachmann aint the only one batshit crazy




http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/28/gore-global-warming-skeptics-are-this-generations-racists/

“I remember, again going back to my early years in the South, when the Civil Rights revolution was unfolding, there were two things that really made an impression on me,” Gore said. “My generation watched Bull Connor turning the hose on civil rights demonstrators and we went, ‘Whoa! How gross and evil is that?’

Gore was probably more upset at the waste of potable water.

[Jujubees2]

Second giant ice island set to break off Greenland glacier (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44353322/ns/us_news-environment/)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

surprise!!!!!!



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/solyndra-solar-company-fails-after-getting-controversial-federal-loan-guarantees/2011/08/31/gIQAB8IRsJ_story.html

[Syd]

surprise! an economy completely devoid of demand causes a company to fail

meanwhile, we must lower taxes

[WRESTLINGFAN]

We must continue to subsidize companies when theres no demand. Brilliant business plan by the feds

[cougarjake13]

Second giant ice island set to break off Greenland glacier (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44353322/ns/us_news-environment/)




were fucked

[Syd]

We must continue to subsidize companies when theres no demand. Brilliant business plan by the feds

we must continue pretending these trends won't continue so that some people can say their political theory is correct, in the middle of a dark room in a world dominated by China and other countries who openly embraced alternative energy

http://i.imgur.com/UgoiU.jpg

[StanUpshaw]

What does China have to do with anything? This is has to be one of THE STUPIDEST arguments I hear. Like there's some finite amount of green energy and that if we don't act fast, China's going to snatch it all up.

When renewables are competitive, they are exploited. WHO THE FUCK is eschewing cheaper energy out of ideological stubbornness? Show me where this is happening!

[StanUpshaw]

Perhaps the Chinese have one of these in mind:
http://i.imgur.com/6aPvH.jpg

Or maybe they've enlisted some help....
<iframe width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/E1fzJ_AYajA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Syd]

cool good fucking thing Stan "blazing wit" Upshaw is on the case and solar panels aren't made of rare, non-renewable elements because they're made entirely out of old soundtracks from 90s movies

[StanUpshaw]

Wow...I don't know which nugget of stupidity to attack first!!!!

Solar panels are made out of silicon. Silicon. A rare element, you say? This is the argument you're making? :ohmy::ohmy::laugh::lol:


Alright, so let's assume you mistook silicon for einsteinium (an honest mistake), and that there's a real physical limit to the number of solar panels that can be created. In this alternate dimension, explain to me why it would matter what country produced them! Whether they're in China or in America (assuming optimal deployment) they're supplying the same amount of electricity. In fact, since China's energy mix uses 66% coal compared to 52% in the US, you would be offsetting MORE carbon if the panels went exclusively to China. Isn't that what it's all about? If you actually cared about the environment, you'd want to do all you could to encourage Chinese renewables.


Also, if you have a second, can you explain to me what a "renewable element" is?

[Syd]

How do they move the electricity along the photovoltaic cells you big dummy? hint: it ain't just silicon

and I said "non-renewable element" because if I didn't, you'd tried to be all clever like and say "WELL THERE COULD BE ANOTHER BIG BANG AND THEN WE'D HAVE MORE LANTHANIDES!!! HERE'S A VIDEO OF LANDO CALRISSIAN!!"

[cougarjake13]

were fucked

[sailor]

Looks like Canada might be dropping the Kyoto protocol.

[StanUpshaw]

Looks like Canada might be dropping the Kyoto protocol.

It's actually kind of funny. The biggest reduction in Canada's greenhouse emissions came as a result of people not spending as much on heating during the recent mild winters.