Pat Kennedy vs. the Catholic Church

[epo]

Rep. Patrick Kennedy Banned From Receiving Communion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/22/rep-patrick-kennedy-banne_n_366750.html)

A month of harsh words between Rep. Patrick Kennedy and a strident critic, Roman Catholic Bishop Thomas Tobin, escalated Sunday when the bishop acknowledged asking Kennedy not to receive Holy Communion because of the Democratic lawmaker's support for abortion rights.

The bishop's attempt to publicly shame Kennedy comes just a few months after the death of his father, Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts. Tobin told The Associated Press in an interview Sunday that he's praying for the younger Kennedy, who has been in and out of treatment for substance abuse, and said Kennedy has been acting "erratically."

"He attacked the church, he attacked the position of the church on health care, on abortion, on funding," Tobin said. "And that required that I respond. I don't go out looking for these guys. I don't go out picking these fights."

Their dispute began in October when Kennedy criticized the nation's Catholic bishops for threatening to oppose an overhaul of the nation's health care system unless lawmakers included tighter restrictions on abortion, which have since been added to the House version of the bill. Tobin said he felt Kennedy made an unprovoked attack on the church and demanded an apology.

Has the Catholic Church gone too far?

[Jujubees2]

Rep. Patrick Kennedy Banned From Receiving Communion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/22/rep-patrick-kennedy-banne_n_366750.html)



Has the Catholic Church gone too far?

Maybe not the church but the Bishop of Providence has.

Kennedy represent all the people from his district, not just the catholics.

[Mitch&Murray]

Rep. Patrick Kennedy Banned From Receiving Communion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/22/rep-patrick-kennedy-banne_n_366750.html)



Has the Catholic Church gone too far?

Rep Kennedy went after the Catholic Church and hes surprised that his local Bishop took offense to it?

[Dude!]

i hope that red-headed twat
OD's on his nebulizer

[SatCam]

Rep. Patrick Kennedy Banned From Receiving Communion

It was only because he was getting drunk off of the communion wine

[sailor]

He isn't following an organization's rules so that organization is asking him to not take part in their private rituals. How is that possibly wrong?

[epo]

To me this is an extension of the threats that the Catholic Church has been making to elected officials for their legislative stances for quite some time. To me, by doing this in a very public format will cause liberal groups to question the Church's not-for-profit status.

[KatPw]

Did the Bishop also single out every other parishioner that supports a woman's right to choose? What about the parishioners that support the death penalty, are they being denied communion? If the Bishop did address these other people then it was obviously a political move. Kennedy was elected by the people, not the church.

[Judge Smails]

The answer is quite simple for all you "pro-choice" people. Keep your babies. Wait until they're about 29 and then drive them off a bridge and drown them. Apparently, the Catholic Church has no problem with that. I call it the 119th Trimester Abortion.

[badmonkey]

Rep. Patrick Kennedy Banned From Receiving Communion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/22/rep-patrick-kennedy-banne_n_366750.html)



Has the Catholic Church gone too far?

No. A church doesn't have to allow you to take communion just cuz you show up. If Kennedy wants to take communion, he can follow the religious teachings of the church he attends he can find another church that isn't as strict.

[TripleSkeet]

He isn't following an organization's rules so that organization is asking him to not take part in their private rituals. How is that possibly wrong?

Thats bullshit. A bishop has no right in denying a Catholic communion. If the diocese excommunicated him then he could do so but he has no authority to just deny communion to whoever the fuck he wants. It goes against every teaching of the Catholic Church. Im pretty sure youre going to see an apology from the Archbishop in the near future.

Maybe not. Apparently the same thing happened with Giuliani in 07 and Biden in 08.

[TripleSkeet]

No. A church doesn't have to allow you to take communion just cuz you show up. If Kennedy wants to take communion, he can follow the religious teachings of the church he attends he can find another church that isn't as strict.

Every Catholic church is supposed to follow the same rules. Catholic isnt the same as Christian where you have different sects that allow different things.

[badmonkey]

Every Catholic church is supposed to follow the same rules. Catholic isnt the same as Christian where you have different sects that allow different things.

He doesn't have to go to a Catholic church. He can order a dinner roll and a bottle of wine at the bar on the corner and call it communion for all anybody cares. No church has to give communion to ANYBODY, ever, for any reason at all and they can deny it from anybody they like for any reason they like because it's their religion, their church, their rules.

[Marc with a c]

He isn't following an organization's rules so that organization is asking him to not take part in their private rituals. How is that possibly wrong?

do you think he got a three point infraction before his ban?

[high fly]

Rep. Patrick Kennedy Banned From Receiving Communion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/22/rep-patrick-kennedy-banne_n_366750.html)



Has the Catholic Church gone too far?


I don't think we should confuse the church with just one bishop.
Though the church's stand on abortion is known, and people pretend the rules are being applied, this can be seen through like the Saran Wrap covering the pork chops at the supermarket.
If it really was the church, why are they not doing this to everyone who doesn't agree with them on choice?

Nawwww, man, this is just one asshole trying to make a name for himself by giving a Kennedy shit.....

[high fly]

Every Catholic church is supposed to follow the same rules. Catholic isnt the same as Christian where you have different sects that allow different things.


Any explanation as to the selective enforcement?
Why are they singling out one person from the millions of Catholics?

[TripleSkeet]

He doesn't have to go to a Catholic church. He can order a dinner roll and a bottle of wine at the bar on the corner and call it communion for all anybody cares. No church has to give communion to ANYBODY, ever, for any reason at all and they can deny it from anybody they like for any reason they like because it's their religion, their church, their rules.

I dont think youre getting the point here. This ISNT the Catholic Church refusing communion to Pat Kennedy. This is one asshole bishop refusing it. Hes overstepping his boundaries. It would be like a waiter at a restaurant telling you youre never allowed to eat there. That church doesnt belong to the bishop, it belongs to the archdiocese. Tomorrow they can tell that bishop hes being moved to a church in fucking Toledo and he has to go without a peep.

And no, priests and bishops cannot just refuse communion to anyone they see fit for whatever reason they want. You cant possibly be a Catholic or you would know how asinine that comment is. This asshole is just trying to make a name for himself and hes embarrassing the Catholic Church as a whole because of it.

[badmonkey]

I dont think youre getting the point here. This ISNT the Catholic Church refusing communion to Pat Kennedy. This is one asshole bishop refusing it. Hes overstepping his boundaries. It would be like a waiter at a restaurant telling you youre never allowed to eat there. That church doesnt belong to the bishop, it belongs to the archdiocese. Tomorrow they can tell that bishop hes being moved to a church in fucking Toledo and he has to go without a peep.

And no, priests and bishops cannot just refuse communion to anyone they see fit for whatever reason they want. You cant possibly be a Catholic or you would know how asinine that comment is. This asshole is just trying to make a name for himself and hes embarrassing the Catholic Church as a whole because of it.

I said "the church" can refuse. If it is in fact "one asshole" refusing communion, then why doesn't Kennedy just go to another catholic church and get his communion if it's so important to him spiritually? Is there some shortage of catholic churches in Boston?

According to the article:
"He attacked the church, he attacked the position of the church on health care, on abortion, on funding," Tobin said. "And that required that I respond. I don't go out looking for these guys. I don't go out picking these fights."

Their dispute began in October when Kennedy criticized the nation's Catholic bishops for threatening to oppose an overhaul of the nation's health care system unless lawmakers included tighter restrictions on abortion, which have since been added to the House version of the bill. Tobin said he felt Kennedy made an unprovoked attack on the church and demanded an apology.

Tobin said he wrote to Kennedy in February 2007 asking him not to receive Communion, but never formally banned Kennedy from receiving Communion or instructed any priest not to give it to him.

Kennedy said this month that he receives Communion, but he did not say whether his priest is in the Diocese of Providence. Tobin only has authority over priests in Rhode Island.

Maybe Kennedy shouldn't attack the church he attends, or he should realize that he doesn't want to be a Catholic and should find a church with religious views that more closely match his own. That makes way more sense than expecting the church to embrace Kennedy's views on abortion.

It amuses me greatly that you guys are so upset by this. Seriously... who gives a shit about Patrick Kennedy other than maybe his mother, his favorite bartender, and his drug dealer?

[underdog]

I said "the church" can refuse. If it is in fact "one asshole" refusing communion, then why doesn't Kennedy just go to another catholic church and get his communion if it's so important to him spiritually? Is there some shortage of catholic churches in Boston?

According to the article:




Maybe Kennedy shouldn't attack the church he attends, or he should realize that he doesn't want to be a Catholic and should find a church with religious views that more closely match his own. That makes way more sense than expecting the church to embrace Kennedy's views on abortion.

It amuses me greatly that you guys are so upset by this. Seriously... who gives a shit about Patrick Kennedy other than maybe his mother, his favorite bartender, and his drug dealer?

Don't you people hate Catholics anyway?

[badmonkey]

Don't you people hate Catholics anyway?

Who are "you people"?

[GregoryJoseph]

Can you claim to be a Buddhist and eat meat?

Can you claim to be a Jew and eat pork and non Kosher meals?

It's insane.

People want to still label themselves as "Catholic" but pick and choose with basic tenets they're willing to agree with.

If his stance is pro-abortion, fine.

Just don't call yourself a Catholic anymore.

It's absurd.

[underdog]

Who are "you people"?

Southern people.

[TripleSkeet]

I said "the church" can refuse. If it is in fact "one asshole" refusing communion, then why doesn't Kennedy just go to another catholic church and get his communion if it's so important to him spiritually? Is there some shortage of catholic churches in Boston?

According to the article:




Maybe Kennedy shouldn't attack the church he attends, or he should realize that he doesn't want to be a Catholic and should find a church with religious views that more closely match his own. That makes way more sense than expecting the church to embrace Kennedy's views on abortion.

It amuses me greatly that you guys are so upset by this. Seriously... who gives a shit about Patrick Kennedy other than maybe his mother, his favorite bartender, and his drug dealer?

The church has no business in government affairs. His job is in government, those issues are supposed to remain seperate. A bishop has no business refusing communion to a politician because their party doesnt oppose abortion. Kennedy is a representative of the people who put him into office. Even if he himself opposes abortion, the people that voted him in do not, therefore hes supposed to do what they voted him in to do.

Of course he criticized the church. They have possibly torpedoed a healthcare bill by putting in stronger restrictions on abortion. The church itself needs to get over the fact that abortion will never be illegal and that not everyone in this world is catholic and dont have to follow their rules.

I get aggrivated because assholes like this bishop get all the press and make the Catholic church look fucking stupid. It overshadows all the good things the church does. I dont give a fuck about Pat Kennedy. Its a principal issue.

If you went to a restaurant and the waiter came up to your table and said "I know you. Your drive an SUV. You dont care about the environment, sorry, youre not allowed to eat here. Would you just "go to another restaurant" to eat? Since there are no shortages of those. Or would you try to contact the higher ups out of principal because the dumb fuck is overstepping his boundaries?

[badmonkey]

Southern people.

No. That's stupid.

[underdog]

Can you claim to be a Buddhist and eat meat?

Can you claim to be a Jew and eat pork and non Kosher meals?

It's insane.

People want to still label themselves as "Catholic" but pick and choose with basic tenets they're willing to agree with.

If his stance is pro-abortion, fine.

Just don't call yourself a Catholic anymore.

It's absurd.

Yeah, but that's how just about all religious people are. They pick and choose what fits them, but people are so desperate for a label that they have to call themselves something.

In my mind, the only true believers are people like Osama bin Laden and Shirley Phelps Roper.

[underdog]

No. That's stupid.

Don't you mean "naw"?

[SatCam]

Can you claim to be a Buddhist and eat meat?

Can you claim to be a Jew and eat pork and non Kosher meals?

It's insane.

People want to still label themselves as "Catholic" but pick and choose with basic tenets they're willing to agree with.

If his stance is pro-abortion, fine.

Just don't call yourself a Catholic anymore.

It's absurd.

He doesn't call himself Catholic because he believes everything they teach.


He calls himself Catholic because that's what got him and everyone else in his family into office

[TripleSkeet]

Can you claim to be a Buddhist and eat meat?

Can you claim to be a Jew and eat pork and non Kosher meals?

It's insane.

People want to still label themselves as "Catholic" but pick and choose with basic tenets they're willing to agree with.

If his stance is pro-abortion, fine.

Just don't call yourself a Catholic anymore.

It's absurd.

You absolutely can be a catholic and not be against abortion.

Im Catholic. If I decide as a catholic that I cannot support a woman that wants to get an abortion because of my religion I am still a Catholic. But I dont see how its any of my business as a Catholic what a prodestant or a muslim or a wickan chooses to do.

As a Catholic I know that the rules of my religion are not the rules of society, therefore do not apply to everyone.

Thats the biggest problem with the church anymore. Theyve forgotten that. If they would just mind their own business and worry about the Catholics instead of everyone else the world would be a much more peaceful place.

[GregoryJoseph]

You absolutely can be a catholic and not be against abortion.



No, you can't.

One of the most basic principles of the religion is that all life is sacred.

In the Church's eyes, it's a gift from God, regardless of whether is resulted from rape, incest, or whatever else.

You can't say "Well, I disregard that philosophy, but I'm still a Catholic."

That just doesn't make sense.

I was born and raised Catholic. I attended Catholic grade school and high school.

I do not consider myself a Catholic because there are some basic things I do not agree with.

Obviously you feel the same.

I just don't know why you still feel the need to call yourself a Catholic and label yourself.

[badmonkey]

The church has no business in government affairs. His job is in government, those issues are supposed to remain seperate. A bishop has no business refusing communion to a politician because their party doesnt oppose abortion. Kennedy is a representative of the people who put him into office. Even if he himself opposes abortion, the people that voted him in do not, therefore hes supposed to do what they voted him in to do.

Of course he criticized the church. They have possibly torpedoed a healthcare bill by putting in stronger restrictions on abortion. The church itself needs to get over the fact that abortion will never be illegal and that not everyone in this world is catholic and dont have to follow their rules.

I get aggrivated because assholes like this bishop get all the press and make the Catholic church look fucking stupid. It overshadows all the good things the church does. I dont give a fuck about Pat Kennedy. Its a principal issue.

If you went to a restaurant and the waiter came up to your table and said "I know you. Your drive an SUV. You dont care about the environment, sorry, youre not allowed to eat here. Would you just "go to another restaurant" to eat? Since there are no shortages of those. Or would you try to contact the higher ups out of principal because the dumb fuck is overstepping his boundaries?

In this case "the press" has the headline
Rep. Patrick Kennedy Banned From Receiving Communion By Bishop Thomas Tobin and contains within the story
Tobin said he wrote to Kennedy in February 2007 asking him not to receive Communion, but never formally banned Kennedy from receiving Communion or instructed any priest not to give it to him.

Kennedy said this month that he receives Communion, but he did not say whether his priest is in the Diocese of Providence. Tobin only has authority over priests in Rhode Island.

So you're upset despite the fact that he hasn't been denied anything at all. He wasn't asked not to take communion based on the position of the Democratic Party. He was asked based on his own personal stance on abortion, which is in direct contradiction with the teachings of the Catholic church. Either way, he's still getting communion so you can stop crying for his eternal soul.

Thats the biggest problem with the church anymore. Theyve forgotten that. If they would just mind their own business and worry about the Catholics instead of everyone else the world would be a much more peaceful place.

I think that was the whole point of the article. They are concerned with Kennedy's position BECAUSE he's a catholic.

[badmonkey]

Don't you mean "naw"?

No. You're stupid. :thumbdown:

[underdog]

No. You're stupid. :thumbdown:

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2009/11/Sarah-Palin-Book-Signing-2.jpg

[Ocho Cinco]

denying someone communion? yeah that sounds like something Jesus would do or teach. I think the Catholics should find someone else to worship and pray too, apparently they would never act the way the son of God would act...

although i agree it's more of this douchebag priest wants to be on the news then it is the catholic church in general. do they REALLY have a problem w/ abortion? it seems like the 10 commandments get those get broken ALL the time. or is it that some are worse then others? Married people have affairs and/or get divorced daily, are they refused communion? no because it's okay or accepted that that goes on. or how bout how many people are killed in the name of religion in general? it's a big number, i don't even think you can wikipedia it.

we should tax all these churches and temples and rebuild the country, they've had it tax free for long enough. unless they can produce one of these invisible guys in public then their free ride should be over, pay taxes like the rest of us jerks. i hope this priest got all the publicity he wanted since he obviously wanted a lot.

[TripleSkeet]

No, you can't.

One of the most basic principles of the religion is that all life is sacred.

In the Church's eyes, it's a gift from God, regardless of whether is resulted from rape, incest, or whatever else.

You can't say "Well, I disregard that philosophy, but I'm still a Catholic."

That just doesn't make sense.

I was born and raised Catholic. I attended Catholic grade school and high school.

I do not consider myself a Catholic because there are some basic things I do not agree with.

Obviously you feel the same.

I just don't know why you still feel the need to call yourself a Catholic and label yourself.

Where does it say as a Catholic its my job to make sure everyone in the world follows the same rules as me?

As a Catholic you cannot go out and get an abortion, but that doesnt mean you have to stop everyone else in the World from doing so. Nowhere is that written.

As a Catholic YOU have to follow the rules of the church. You DO NOT have to force other people to.

I dont see why its so hard to understand.

[GregoryJoseph]

Where does it say as a Catholic its my job to make sure everyone in the world follows the same rules as me?

As a Catholic you cannot go out and get an abortion, but that doesnt mean you have to stop everyone else in the World from doing so. Nowhere is that written.

As a Catholic YOU have to follow the rules of the church. You DO NOT have to force other people to.

I dont see why its so hard to understand.

You do not have to FORCE other people to believe as you, but YOU should believe abortion is wrong if you're truly a Catholic.

That's what I'm saying.

I'm not saying make it illegal, but it's against your moral code and you wouldn't support it in any way, including campaigning for it and its legality.

That is, if you were TRULY a Catholic and not one in name only.

[TripleSkeet]

I think that was the whole point of the article. They are concerned with Kennedy's position BECAUSE he's a catholic.

But they arent concerned on his opinion, they are concerned by state matters. Matters that according to the Constitution, they should have no say in. Basically they are trying to shame this man into agreeing with their political point of view. Its a disgraceful tactic and one that should make other Catholics ashamed. He is a Democrat and as such is supposed to follow the wishes of the people that put him in office.

Cuomo said it best: Cuomo said there are two positions a politician can take: They can oppose church doctrine outright or, as he did, accept church teachings personally but refuse to carry them into the public arena where they would affect people of every faith.

[TripleSkeet]

You do not have to FORCE other people to believe as you, but YOU should believe abortion is wrong if you're truly a Catholic.

That's what I'm saying.

I'm not saying make it illegal, but it's against your moral code and you wouldn't support it in any way, including campaigning for it and its legality.

That is, if you were TRULY a Catholic and not one in name only.

Hes a Democrat! Thats the parties stance on abortion. Obviously he cant make it illegal. But as a Dem hes supposed to represent the Dem voters.

This whole "name only" bullshit is ridiculous. If he hadnt took part in an abortion, or performed an abortion, hes not breaking ANY Catholic rules.

It might not make him a good Catholic in your eyes, but thats just your opinion.

[GregoryJoseph]

Hes a Democrat! Thats the parties stance on abortion. Obviously he cant make it illegal. But as a Dem hes supposed to represent the Dem voters.

This whole "name only" bullshit is ridiculous. If he had took part in an abortion, or performed an abortion, hes not breaking ANY Catholic rules.

It might not make him a good Catholic in your eyes, but thats just your opinion.

It's not a question of a "good" Catholic or a "bad" one, just being a Catholic.

It's obvious he is not one.

He's a Democrat. That's his religion.

He follows their laws and tenets, not those of the Church he professes to be a part of.

[TripleSkeet]

It's not a question of a "good" Catholic or a "bad" one, just being a Catholic.

It's obvious he is not one.

He's a Democrat. That's his religion.

He follows their laws and tenets, not those of the Church he professes to be a part of.

So what you are saying is that it is impossible to be a Democrat and be a Catholic. Do I have that right?

[midwestjeff]

Can you claim to be a Buddhist and eat meat?

Yes.

[GregoryJoseph]

So what you are saying is that it is impossible to be a Democrat and be a Catholic. Do I have that right?

I'm saying it's impossible to openly campaign for something that's in direct opposition to one of the basic teachings of the church you claim to be a member of.

If you do, you're not really a member of that church.

[foodcourtdruide]

Can you claim to be a Buddhist and eat meat?

Can you claim to be a Jew and eat pork and non Kosher meals?

It's insane.

People want to still label themselves as "Catholic" but pick and choose with basic tenets they're willing to agree with.

If his stance is pro-abortion, fine.

Just don't call yourself a Catholic anymore.

It's absurd.

Why do people think buddhists don't eat meat? I've met more vegetarian hindus.

[boosterp]

Why do people think buddhists don't eat meat? I've met more vegetarian hindus.

That was going to be my question too.

[Syd]

I'm saying it's impossible to openly campaign for something that's in direct opposition to one of the basic teachings of the church you claim to be a member of.

If you do, you're not really a member of that church.

Pretty much anyone who espouses their religion on the campaign trail in general opposes the vast majority of their religious teachings. There's more to the Bible in particular than "abortion is wrong"

[badmonkey]

Pretty much anyone who espouses their religion on the campaign trail in general opposes the vast majority of their religious teachings. There's more to the Bible in particular than "abortion is wrong"

So it's ok to be a hypocrite when it comes to religion as long as you're in the Democratic Party. There's more to Catholicism in particular than hitting the church for mass once a week and scarfing down some tasty communion.

[IamFogHat]

Can you claim to be a Buddhist and eat meat?

Can you claim to be a Jew and eat pork and non Kosher meals?

It's insane.

People want to still label themselves as "Catholic" but pick and choose with basic tenets they're willing to agree with.

If his stance is pro-abortion, fine.

Just don't call yourself a Catholic anymore.

It's absurd.

I was basically going to say this. Why they decided to get around to it now I don't know, but this is nothing new from them, why are any of you surprised?

[TheMojoPin]

Why do people think buddhists don't eat meat?

Because Gvac just goes for the Cliff's Notes version.

And even gets that wrong.

[GregoryJoseph]

I'll admit I do not know the precepts of every sect and branch of Buddhism, just as I do not know the doctrines of every branch of Christianity.

Sure you could see how I could have made such an error -

Today it is often said that Mahayanists are vegetarian and Theravadins are not. However the situation is a little more complex than that. Generally Theravadins have no dietary restrictions although it is not uncommon to find monks and lay people in Sri Lanka who are strict vegetarians. Others abstain from meat while eating fish. Chinese and Vietnamese monks and nuns are strictly vegetarian and the lay community try to follow their example although many do not. Amongst Tibetans and Japanese Buddhists, vegetarianism is rare.

A thousand pardons.

[ChrisBrown]

Dalai Lama isn't a vegetarian