January 4th, 2010

[SpicyMcHaggis]

It's going to be a red letter day in pro wrestling. For the first time in many years, two pro wrestling companies will go head to head with live broadcasts on a Monday night. TNA Impact and WWE Raw, both live, both with two of the biggest names in pro wrestling attached to them, and both with unpredictable outcomes. Here are some of the points on both sides.

TNA will be having a familiar face, Hulk Hogan, arguably the most recognizable name in pro wrestling history to the average joe, and he will be introducing the casual fan to a whole new product which from what we understand from different reports, has been given a whole new facelift both visually and creatively.

WWE, the monopoly of the pro wrestling scene, brings with it on Monday night one of it's most controversial rivalries, Bret Hart vs Vince McMahon, both real and kayfabe, onto a live format. WWE has set the standard, however low it may be for some hardcore fans, and knows what works.


WWE has a main event (tag team) title match annonced, TNA has no announced card for the past few weeks on this live event they've been promoting.
This may be the end of the guest host storyline and what a way to do it since Bret Hart as a GM role on RAW may be what they need for a consistent pull in on ratings.
TNA is not following up their live broadcast with an all new taped Impact for Thursday. Instead it'll be a replay of Monday's show.
There are MANY free agents out there who may show up on January 4th on TNA so the unpredictability factor is still there.
TNA is starting at eight o'clock that night and, like WCW of old, will get the jump start on their opposing side.
However, TNA also runs the risk, like WCW, of giving too much focus once again on an old man who's been given a lot of money to promote a show and ends up making it about him.
WWE runs the risk of perhaps giving too much camp and variety show elements instead of jumping on an opportunity to remind everyone that the word "wrestling" is still in their promotion's name.


These are the points that are out there. What do you think is going to happen? Which show will you watch live? Which one will you DVR? Frankly I'll be watching a live version on TV and a streaming version online. I just can't decide which one yet.

[Tall_James]

I'll definitely be watching one and Tivo'ing the other on the first Monday night. I'm a casual fan (at best) but I know that I'll watch the first matchup at least because it promises some surprises.

[disneyspy]

CHUCK and HEROES on NBC, MEN of a CERTAIN AGE on TBS,i think V will be on and FLASH FORWARD,if 24 and that other new show that looks kick ass starts that day my dvr will be too busy to watch rubbin hoods,men in tights

[Kevin]

CHUCK and HEROES on NBC, MEN of a CERTAIN AGE on TBS,i think V will be on and FLASH FORWARD,if 24 and that other new show that looks kick ass starts that day my dvr will be too busy to watch rubbin hoods,men in tights

Is men of a certain age a story based on you and Gvac??..

or was that grumpy old men... i confuse the two sometime.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

I sure hope the nWo does not come back, it will be sadder than the 33rd return of DX that is currently taking place..

And I thought it could not get much sadder than 2 40 yr old plus men trying to be cool


ill watch both and DVR them , but only because I am a loser

[Bob Impact]

I'll be tuning into see Bret Hart.

[asayresk]

As much as I want to support TNA, Im tuning in to Raw to see Bret. If it turns out to be Hornswoggle in bret Hart sunglasses & tight, im wacthing TNA the entire way.

[cougarjake13]

ill be watching tna and dvr'ing raw


havent watched raw in 2 months

[whorehay]

i'll watch the first hour of TNA, then once RAW starts i'll flip back and forth. No loyalties here, just whatever has the most interesting thing going on at the moment. just like the old days!

how bad would it be if both of the shows hit a low point and you had to choose which of the ones sucked the least.

[TripleSkeet]

Im watching TNA and DVRing Raw. Fuck WWE. As interested as I am in seeing Bret Hart, I can wait a few hours to see how the WWE fucks up this return.

TNA is going to be all new. With a new set, new intro, tons of surprise wrestlers and new angles. Thats what I wanna watch.

Then I can go and watch John Cena make a taped speech from the Fiesta Bowl about how he got beat by Sheamus but its ok because he "Never Gives Up" :flush: Because the WWE cares so much that a new company is trying to compete with them that they send one of their most popular wrestlers to a fucking coin toss rather then have them appear on their own show.

Then I can watch them hype up a rematch of the best Mania match last year because they arent creative enough to come up with another match to emulate it.

And even though there is slight concern about TNA focusing on an old wrestler past his prime, the WWE is going to be focusing on an even older non-wrestler wrestling Bret Hart at this years Wrestlemania.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Personally I'm confident that TNA is going to make the best out of their overhaul and I have hope that this is exactly what they need to make a turnaround, make competition in the business, create a new demand for pro wrestling, thus making a demand for the independent promotions to step up their games and provide quality shows that people want to see, helping the common wrestling fan economy in the process.

[Bob Impact]

Personally I'm confident that TNA is going to make the best out of their overhaul and I have hope that this is exactly what they need to make a turnaround, make competition in the business, create a new demand for pro wrestling, thus making a demand for the independent promotions to step up their games and provide quality shows that people want to see, helping the common wrestling fan economy in the process.

Ooohhh, so THAT's what an optimist looks like.

Inb4 the Nasty Boys squash the Motor City Machine Guns.

[Ocho Cinco]

gDAMN it i was all set to give up wwe for 2010 but they had to bring bret hart back...

i'll def be watching raw, i'll tivo tna but bret hart? can't beat that. i'm sure they'll blow it but whatever they get one shot next year and monday is it

and push swagger already

[TripleSkeet]

i'll def be watching raw, i'll tivo tna but bret hart? can't beat that.

and push swagger already

Cant beat that? How about The Rock?

And word is they just dont see anything in Swagger so they are ending his push. The brilliance of the WWE. I just dont get it.

[cougarjake13]

sheamus is like swagger minus the lisp


wonder if sheamus took swaggers spot and thats why he got the belt so fast

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Among the things Hogan wants to change in TNA:


No scripted promos
20x20 four sided ring
Character development on current champions and youth of the promotion
The name of the promotion itself


I say three out of these four get done actually.

[Fallon]

I hate the name TNA.

Total Nonstop Action is retarded.

[TripleSkeet]

Among the things Hogan wants to change in TNA:


No scripted promos
20x20 four sided ring
Character development on current champions and youth of the promotion
The name of the promotion itself


I say three out of these four get done actually.

I agree with 2 out of 4 of these. Like it or not, the name is established. People know it. It has a following already.

The 6 sided ring I like. It brings something different to the wrestling. They have tons of different types of matches the WWE doesnt and it helps to bring something the WWE cant.

[Dirtbag]

Most of the gimmick matches TNA has come up with are overcomplicated or just plain lame. Not the fault of the six-sided ring though. I don't really care about that either way.

[conman823]

I will be DVRing both due to working that evening. But I will be watching TNA first, RAW second. I will also be staying away from the Internetz until I watch both. I really wanna be surprised again.

Although WWE won't surprise anybody I'm sure. Besides the Hart segments I'm sure the rest will be garbage.

I'm glad for TNA, I've been on this forum screaming for people to watch them for years now. Most of you laughed me off, then I watched a lot of people change thier opinions.

I just hope Hogan doesn't shit the bed on this one.

[TjM]

Among the things Hogan wants to change in TNA:


No scripted promos
20x20 four sided ring
Character development on current champions and youth of the promotion
The name of the promotion itself


I say three out of these four get done actually.

:lol::lol::lol:

Hogan and "pushing youth" in the same sentence. That's a good one

:lol::lol::lol:

[Dirtbag]

:lol::lol::lol:

Hogan and "pushing youth" in the same sentence. That's a good one

:lol::lol::lol:

This is one of the things I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on. Hogan is 60 and has a fake hip. Even if he wants to make TNA all about him, I think he knows that it just simply isn't a reality. So unless he's content on pushing his buddies, who are just as old and in as bad of shape as he is, it leaves him little choice but to rely on the new blood.

[TripleSkeet]

This is one of the things I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on. Hogan is 60 and has a fake hip. Even if he wants to make TNA all about him, I think he knows that it just simply isn't a reality. So unless he's content on pushing his buddies, who are just as old and in as bad of shape as he is, it leaves him little choice but to rely on the new blood.

According to his latest interview hes not even planning on wrestling. He knows he cant do it anymore and said even if he did it would be for 1 or 2 major matches. I can live with that.

[cougarjake13]

According to his latest interview hes not even planning on wrestling. He knows he cant do it anymore and said even if he did it would be for 1 or 2 major matches. I can live with that.



thats perfect


have him face off with someone at the slammiversary ppv with a lil build up prior

[brettmojo]

Yup... Still don't care.

[Melk]

Among the things Hogan wants to change in TNA:


No scripted promos
20x20 four sided ring
Character development on current champions and youth of the promotion
The name of the promotion itself


I say three out of these four get done actually.
1) I think the promotion is just terrible. The in-ring product is mildly-passable, but their angles and promos are horrible. The scripted v. unscripted promo thing is not necessarily a big deal.

2) TNA should keep the 6 sided ring. It is pretty cool and, ideally, should improve the wrestler's ring positioning and timing.

3) That is great, but Hogan is too old to work a good match with most of the young workers. The ideal heavyweight to push will look exposed against the Hulkster. A great older wrestler can adapt to other wrestlers' styles, but Hulk doesn't. Hulk will want to work a rest hold-heavy match with tests of strength and other passe Hulk-cliches.

4) I agree.

I will probably not watch either show tonight. I really don't have faith in wrestling anymore.

[foodcourtdruide]

oops

[foodcourtdruide]

I'm going to watch TNA. Fuck WWE. I'm not 10 years old.

[paulisded]

The dumbest thing TNA is doing is announcing that they're rebroadcasting tomorrow's show on Thursday. Why wouldn't people just watch Raw as usual?

If I owned TNA, though, i'd wipe it clean and start all over. As bad as WWE has become, their show is unwatchable.

[TripleSkeet]

I cant believe you guys can watch WWE right now but not TNA. As a wrestling fan it amazes me. And its not just me. Ive got friends that grew up watching wrestling since we were like 5 years old. Not only would we watch WWF, but when we would get to a house that had cable we would watch NWA too. And we would grab as many of the old Coliseum videos and watch those as well.

As bad as it got in the early 90's we still watched it happily. Some liked WCW better, some liked WWF better, but were all loving the Monday Night Wars. Not to mention we all were fanatical about ECW considering it was every Saturday night around the corner from our houses. We were the most hardcore wrestling fans around. It was just something that always entertained us.

As of right now I am the only one left that even watches the WWE. And thats because I DVR it and fast forward through most of it. All of my friends though, watch TNA now. I actually had one friend of mine who is a pure diehard ask me last week "When did they start with this whole guest host thing?"

The wrestling overall is 10 times better then WWE. The promos are head and shoulders above it because they come from legitimate emotion and unlike the WWE dont feel like they are reading a script. (Scripted promos are the worse thing to happen to wrestling in the last 10 years).

And they still incorporate the element of surprise. What was the last major unadvertised surprise that the WWE has had? Cena showing up to the Rumble? They dont give the fans anything to talk about anymore. 10 years ago they would pull out a shocker on Raw and watch as the word of mouth got the NEXT WEEKS ratings to blow up. Now they advertise every little appearance they can, and then watch as that segment of Raw pulls a good rating before everyone changes the channel again when it ends.

I have a feeling TNA this Monday is gonna remind alot of people what watching wrestling on Monday nights used to be like.

[paulisded]

Actually, Skeet, I haven't watched tna in about six months, so it's possible they've made some change I'm not aware of. But I can't handle Tenay...or the Beautiful People bullshit...I could go on and on.

[Don Stugots]

The dumbest thing TNA is doing is announcing that they're rebroadcasting tomorrow's show on Thursday. Why wouldn't people just watch Raw as usual?

If I owned TNA, though, i'd wipe it clean and start all over. As bad as WWE has become, their show is unwatchable.

i have to agree. skip the thursday broadcast this week. i will be watching TNA, not DVRing RAW at all. Bret Hart is one of my all time favs but i will watch his clips on youtube.

[TripleSkeet]

Actually, Skeet, I haven't watched tna in about six months, so it's possible they've made some change I'm not aware of. But I can't handle Tenay...or the Beautiful People bullshit...I could go on and on.

Just of the top of my head...

- Tenay is still there...but with Taz now. Don West is now a manager. (and not bad at it)

- The beautiful people arent a major storyline anymore. The main girl (I forget her name) is gone and replaced with Lacey Von Erich, who is unpopular backstage. (I cant lie, I fast forward whenever a womens wrestling match starts)

- Jay Lethal has been talking about reforming the Mega Powers with Hogan and has been wrestling old WWF guys each week. (Jim Neidhart, Tatanka, etc) I cant express how much I love this gimmick.

- Angle is feuding with Desmond Wolfe (The top talent from ROH that TNA signed)

- The Dudleys and Rhino are feuding with the young guys Morgan, Hernandez and Suicide in some kind of feud where they claim the younger guys are trtying to hurt the older guys so they can get their spots.

- AJ Styles is the champ and has been feuding with Daniels

- Sting is MIA ever since they announced Hogan coming in

- Foley and Abyss have been feuding with Raven and Stevie but thats about to end. Rumor is its going to be Foley in a feud with Hogan (non-wrestling) where one group wants to help a certain groups of stars while the other wants to help a different group)

- They had the feast or fired match and Samoa Joe has a World Title shot and Nash has a tag team title shot.

- Word so far for Monday is LOTS of surprises. Names being thrown around right now have been Jeff Hardy, Rob Van Dam, Scott Hall and some lower tier guys like Shannon Moore and Tommy Dreamer. Im sure some of those wont happen and some other guys not named may pop up.

As far as WWE goes all of a sudden now they are having Jim Ross put out on his blog hes been hearing unfounded rumors or Randy Savage showing up no Raw. Which I believe is complete bullshit and just a cheap way of the WWE to try and get some internet talking. They arent bringing back Savage. Not after all the heat he has with CVince and definitely not on a night when they have Bret Hart coming in.

[whorehay]

I wonder if Hogan's bringing in his non-wrestling celebrity friends as well (Laila Ali, Bubba the Love Sponge, Mr. T, Zeus, Dennis Rodman and Sylvester Stallone). That's what the fans really want!

also, from 411 Mania:
"Both Hulk Hogan and Shane McMahon were at last night's UFC 108 show in Las Vegas. Shane has not signed any sort of deal with UFC yet, but his WWE obligations did end on January 1st."

it'd be awesome if Shane jumped over to TNA and did a legit "inVasion" angle. not that it would ever happen, but still..

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I believe Dixie Carter is dead set on making sure Hulk Hogan is used as a publicity tool to help bring attention to TNA as well as get whatever creative insight he can give on what worked back then can still be used now, like basics of pro wrestling, to get the product over, the ratings higher, and the fans coming back.

[TripleSkeet]

I believe Dixie Carter is dead set on making sure Hulk Hogan is used as a publicity tool to help bring attention to TNA as well as get whatever creative insight he can give on what worked back then can still be used now, like basics of pro wrestling, to get the product over, the ratings higher, and the fans coming back.

She is. Hogan even said in an interview that the deal is concrete for one year, but if at any time she doesnt like his angles or how hes running the show she can say so and he will leave without a fight.

What his name does is give TNA a legit shot of getting contracts with overseas television, which is a HUGE market. Thats actually what Shane McMahon is rumored to be trying to to do with UFC to. Considering that was his main job in the WWE. You have to figure in places like Asia and India, trying to get TNA on tv will be tough, but when you say Hulk Hogan is on it they have a name they know and respect and that gives TNA huge chance at all that extra cash.

[ScottFromGA]

I'm kinda excited about tonight.....I've always had a love for Pro Wrestling and the E has left me in a haze after the shit they've gave us for 4 or 5 years.....I hope this is just a rebirth again.

[paulisded]

I'm already annoyed.

[ScottFromGA]

its the SPONGE brother.....UGH!

[ScottFromGA]

so...all he is doing is interviewing his listeners.

[KingGeno]

I don't watch wrestling that much anymore, but this is about as awesome as the Chris Benoit Tribute.

[paulisded]

Funny how all the moronic "fans" said they wanted old school hardcore excitement "like Hulk Hogan". Ugh. Hogan was never a great ring worker; he was the 80's version of Cena.

[foodcourtdruide]

I like that they're trying to be the adult product, mentioning that they're not 5 year-olds etc. But that first promo was a hogan ass-kiss fest with bubba the love sponge... Yuck.

[paulisded]

They HAVE to get rid of Tenay. Does anybody enjoy his commentary?

[NickyL0885]

these wrestler names and tag team names are horrible.

[foodcourtdruide]

Hahaha! I can't see what's going on inside the cage!

[foodcourtdruide]

these wrestler names and tag team names are horrible.

Totally. "Beer Money"? Ohhh that's so cool!

[ScottFromGA]

Hahaha! I can't see what's going on inside the cage!

that is being said in the other chats and forums I'm in....LOL.

[disneyspy]

this reminds me of 2nd grade and the jungle gym wars we had

[paulisded]

A no contest in the first match? Ugh!

[foodcourtdruide]

that is being said in the other chats and forums I'm in....LOL.

This was an incredibly. Bad way to start this.

[foodcourtdruide]

Wow, jeff hardy, what could have been amazing... Kinda lame. Homicide was definitely supposed to climb out of the cage.

[Melk]

A no contest in the first match? Ugh!
The crowd is pleased by this turn of events. Who gives a damn that one of the Hardy Boys are there?

[paulisded]

Wow, jeff hardy, what could have been amazing... Kinda lame. Homicide was definitely supposed to climb out of the cage.

I did laugh when stupid Homicide couldn't climb out. It really did ruin the Hardy entrance, though.

[foodcourtdruide]

The crowd is pleased by this turn of events. Who gives a damn that one of the Hardy Boys are there?

One of the top 10 names in pro wrestling appears and THAT'S how they bring him in?????????

[NickyL0885]

the cage thing is stupid. how can anyone climb out of the top? it seems impossible.

[epo]

It took Hardy to balance out the stupid red cage & the awful booking.

Hideous.

[TripleSkeet]

I hate Bubba the Love Sponge, but I can live with him interviewing fans. Thats no big deal.

Didnt like the no contest. Stupid finish. But I liked the way Jeff Hardy came out. Especially sitting on top of the cage. That was a pretty big pickup for them, considering word in the dirtsheets is the WWE was looking to get him to wrestle CM Punk at WM26.

Not bad so far.

I like the fact they are saving Hogan for the 9 oclock hour too. Very smart.

[TripleSkeet]

the cage thing is stupid. how can anyone climb out of the top? it seems impossible.

I dont think they are supposed to. Kinda like black shell cage they have in WWE with the glass boxes. Whatever that things called.

[paulisded]

I like the fact they are saving Hogan for the 9 oclock hour too. Very smart.

The next 35 minutes better be an improvement for me to stick around for that segment.

[Melk]

Homicide was definitely supposed to climb out of the cage.
I think so.

I think someone else is going to get out of the limo.

[ScottFromGA]

well a plus, Christy Hemme tits.

[paulisded]

well a plus, Christy Hemme tits.

Hemme is indeed hot, but Nash may be the least convincing interview subject ever.

[NickyL0885]

ODB? seriously? thats her name?

[paulisded]

Loved the quick cam change when a bit of buttcrack was shown!

[foodcourtdruide]

If bret hart gets out of the limo with hogan this will be the best night in wrestling history.

[TripleSkeet]

If bret hart gets out of the limo with hogan this will be the best night in wrestling history.

Hahahahaha the ultimate way to fuck Vince over.

[disneyspy]

woooooooooooooooo

[epo]

Wow, Flair really needs some cash...

[foodcourtdruide]

Wow, flair!

[TripleSkeet]

Wow, Flair really needs some cash...

Yea I never thought hed come over.

[Melk]

ODB? seriously? thats her name?
Tarantulas aren't poisonous.

Hey. It is the Nature Boy....

[foodcourtdruide]

Hahahahaha the ultimate way to fuck Vince over.

That would be sooooo amazing.

[Sue_Bender]

Yea I never thought hed come over.

Maybe we'll get an unscripted Flair promo.

[epo]

They aren't booing him, they're chanting "Lashley".

[TripleSkeet]

Hahahaha poor Scott. Now the beautiful people.

[paulisded]

A poker is so popular angle is about two years too late.

[foodcourtdruide]

I feel like I just watched every dumb stripper I've ever met have a conversation.

[Melk]

Great! Porno actresses playing poker...

Who cares!

[epo]

A poker is so popular angle is about two years too late.

Russo?

[foodcourtdruide]

Scott Hall looks pretty good.

[Melk]

Russo?
It would have to be Russo. Who else loves embarrassing, terrible backstage angles.

[foodcourtdruide]

Why wouldn't hogan just arrive on time?

[disneyspy]

Why wouldn't hogan just arrive on time?

because his ex wifes boyfriend has his watch

[Melk]

He'll be on time.
Raw's start time minus 2-3 minutes.

[epo]

Hogan's limo better have "sweet and sour" Larry Sweeney in it to make up for this hideous wait.

[foodcourtdruide]

I actually think Flair is bigger than Hogan. They better make Flairs promo be the closer.

[paulisded]

So TNA has roped in a bunch of over-the-hill egomaniacs, and the younger talent is pretty much ignored. Hmmmm, I think I've seen this game before.

[foodcourtdruide]

So TNA has roped in a bunch of over-the-hill egomaniacs, and the younger talent is pretty much ignored. Hmmmm, I think I've seen this game before.

I wonder if its karl malone in the other limo.

[paulisded]

I wonder if its karl malone in the other limo.

Or Kevin Greene.

[Sue_Bender]

They've really timed their segments well.


More commercials until RAW.

[K.C.]

So TNA has roped in a bunch of over-the-hill egomaniacs, and the younger talent is pretty much ignored. Hmmmm, I think I've seen this game before.

I was just telling someone it's like an sitcom reunion show, where everyone is older, fatter, and still doing their trademark catchphrases.

I'm not really sure how to take this right now....it's either really bad, or so bad that it's kind of funny.

[Hottub]

The Old Folks Home.

C'mon people. Get a clue!

[paulisded]

No obligatory getting out of the limo shots?

I thought I saw a second Hulk in the crowd. Turns out it was Brooke.

[epo]

In black? This old fucker better shit on the past very quickly.

[Melk]

It is 3 minutes to the hour. I win the non-existent Hogan arrival time contest.

I hope the crowd boos.

Nice nWo ripoff music.

[Mitch&Murray]

That's right brother!!!!!!!

[K.C.]

Did he just say he was in the back all day long?

Why the hell were we subjected to the 40 minute limo ride segment????????

[paulisded]

Wait - Hulk's been "in the back all day long"???? Why the limo footage? Where was he during the first hour?

[Hottub]

Ohh yeah, brother.
Say your prayers and eat your vitamins.

[Melk]

Dealing with the talent in back? So... he wasn't in the limo?

Good job speaking off-the-cuff.

[paulisded]

Scott Hall is such a lovable retard.

[paulisded]

When did Bret Hart turn into Ozzy Osbourne?

[MagillaGorillaz]

When did Spike TV put the Golden Girls on it's lineup?

[epo]

Bischoff? Uggghhhh

[NickyL0885]

Bret and HBK. Wow. been so long.

[Mitch&Murray]

Don't they ever wrestle on wrestling shows

[disneyspy]

this is the gayest,most stupid,waste of time,awfulest,worst,horrific,terrible,dog shit,danlaroe/walker,piece of shit ever

just fuckin terrible

[K.C.]

Is Shawn crosseyed?

[foodcourtdruide]

They look so old.

[foodcourtdruide]

Bring out flair!!!!

[K.C.]

They look so old.

They are.

Every single one of them.

On both shows.

[MagillaGorillaz]

Were going to change the format, I won't tell you what it was but were going to change it.

[TripleSkeet]

Hilarious. On one channel Im watching Hogan, Hall, Nash, Sixx and Bischoff...on the other its Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels....apparently Ive just gotten to 1995.

[Space Edge]

Brett sounded a lot better then he did a year or so ago when O&A did that interview with him.

[paulisded]

Both shows are now equally awful.

[TripleSkeet]

Its been a pretty entertaining night of wrestling so far. Thats something I cant remember the last time I said. I just wish TNA would stop with the fucking girl wrestlers. Enough. We get it, youre owned by a chick, now make these bitches valets and get some wrestlers out there.

[epo]

I hate myself for watching all of this shit.

[foodcourtdruide]

TNA Knockouts make WWE Divas wrestling ability look like shit.

[paulisded]

Val Venissssssssssssssssssssssssssss!

[Melk]

Hilarious. On one channel Im watching Hogan, Hall, Nash, Sixx and Bischoff...on the other its Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels....apparently Ive just gotten to 1995.
Bischoff is the only one in the group that doesn't look like hell. To be fair, Sting looks okay, too (but cake makeup and full-body tights cover up a lot).

Tonight is a prime example as to why wrestling screwed up royally in the 90s and have just been unable to recover. Nobody passed the torch. Now, these guys shouldn't get over on anyone... it quite the predicament.

Val Venis? He sucks!

[TripleSkeet]

Ok, Val Venis just made that whole poker segment worth it.

[TripleSkeet]

A turtle stuck on the back of his shell make WWE Divas wrestling ability look like shit.

Fixed it.

[epo]

The only thing that could've saved that awful poker segment would be Flair in a suit cheating to win.

[paulisded]

Of course the Nasty Boys are there - I'm sure it's part of Hulk's contract that his butt boys have to also get a deal.

[foodcourtdruide]

The nasty boyz? Uhhhhhh..

[TripleSkeet]

Bischoff is the only one in the group that doesn't look like hell. To be fair, Sting looks okay, too (but cake makeup and full-body tights cover up a lot).

Tonight is a prime example as to why wrestling screwed up royally in the 90s and have just been unable to recover. Nobody passed the torch. Now, these guys shouldn't get over on anyone... it quite the predicament.

Val Venis? He sucks!

Actually, what happened was the guys that got the torch passed to, namely Austin and The Rock becamse so big they didnt need wrestling anymore.

Then between the WWE answering to stockholders + No competition put wrestling as a hole in the shitter. Both rosters have alot of good young talent, it just seems like WWE either doesnt see it, or doesnt want to use most of it. Im looking at you Christian and Jack Swagger.

[Melk]

The Nasty Boys are about as exciting as seeing Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

[paulisded]

Who is the goth chick? She's hot.

[TripleSkeet]

Of course the Nasty Boys are there - I'm sure it's part of Hulk's contract that his butt boys have to also get a deal.

It looks more to me that they are using these guys to make fun of the fact that these were the guys people were bitching about were gonna come in and start winning. In each segment they cant get in the door. LOL

[K.C.]

Who is the goth chick? She's hot.

Daphne, I believe.

She used to be with Raven's group in WCW, I think.

[foodcourtdruide]

Desmond wolfe is awesome. I can't wait until he jobs to brutus the barber beefcake next week.

[MagillaGorillaz]

When is Mr Kennedy going to show up on TNA tonight?

[foodcourtdruide]

Is that elijah burke or am I the most racist person ever?

[TripleSkeet]

Desmond wolfe is awesome. I can't wait until he jobs to brutus the barber beefcake next week.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[K.C.]

How long before the juggalos show up on one of these shows?

[paulisded]

Thank God for Santino.

[foodcourtdruide]

That was a great, short match.

[TripleSkeet]

By the way Scott, Im with you on Tenay. Because of Jim Ross' recent stroke he hasnt had a new contract offered to him. Who knows? Maybe Vince will put together another segment where hes pulling rubber chickens out of Ol JR's ass again and hell say fuck it and come to TNA.

[Melk]

I thought that Daffney was David Flair's stalker and then Devon Storm's vallet in the WCW. I cannot remember Storm's ring name in WCW. Crowbar?

Okay... who would you like to see show up tonight?
I am rooting for Diamond Dallas Page.

[TripleSkeet]

Thank God for Santino.

The best part of Raw for the entire year of 2009.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Santino Jericho rules.

[K.C.]

I thought that Daffney was David Flair's stalker and then Devon Storm's vallet in the WCW. I cannot remember Storm's ring name in WCW. Crowbar?

Okay... who would you like to see show up tonight?
I am rooting for Diamond Dallas Page.

Yeah, you're right...she was with Crowbar, and then David Flair.

[paulisded]

By the way Scott, Im with you on Tenay. Because of Jim Ross' recent stroke he hasnt had a new contract offered to him. Who knows? Maybe Vince will put together another segment where hes pulling rubber chickens out of Ol JR's ass again and hell say fuck it and come to TNA.

Tenay is just unbearable. Every move is the most amazing move he's ever seen; every new angle is the most shocking in the history of professional wrestling. I could probably accept some of these minor surprises if he wasn't so over the top with them.

[TripleSkeet]

I thought that Daffney was David Flair's stalker and then Devon Storm's vallet in the WCW. I cannot remember Storm's ring name in WCW. Crowbar?

Okay... who would you like to see show up tonight?
I am rooting for Diamond Dallas Page.

I wouldnt mind DDP. He can definitely still go. Id like RVD.

[foodcourtdruide]

not incredibly disappointed, but not wowed either. The Outsiders? Nasty Boys? Come on.... Show case your young talent and use surprises to carry the show.

[K.C.]

Remember when DX used to be somewhat interesting?

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[TripleSkeet]

DX has basically turned into Jim Norton and Vos with the cheap plugs. The only difference is Norton is funny and entertains me.

[Melk]

Actually, what happened was the guys that got the torch passed to, namely Austin and The Rock becamse so big they didnt need wrestling anymore.

Then between the WWE answering to stockholders + No competition put wrestling as a hole in the shitter. Both rosters have alot of good young talent, it just seems like WWE either doesnt see it, or doesnt want to use most of it. Im looking at you Christian and Jack Swagger.
I don't agree. Assuming that HBK, Bret Hart, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Hulk Hogan, Sting and Ric Flair were the top stars of the mid-90s. The WWE successfully passed the torch to Steve Austin who is about the same age as Sting. Then Austin pushed some of his heat onto The Rock who, in turn, ran with it.

You cannot run a lasting promotion with one top star.

[K.C.]

Hey, Michael Emerson got a job as a backstage reporter...good for him!

[paulisded]

Angle/Styles for the 50th time is the main event? Yeah, they're really shaking things up.

[hammersavage]

it's pretty amazing that Big Show's body had held up this long and that he's still such an athletic guy.

[Melk]

Remember when DX used to be somewhat interesting?
No. I just remember Jim Ross changing the rhetoric of his commentary at that time. You'd see The Roaddog Jesse James Armstrong hit Owen Hart with a folding chair and Jim Ross would say, "A good strategy."

The way the WWF handled the Attitude Era polluted the pool of wrestling and I have not seen it improve since.

[TripleSkeet]

I don't agree. Assuming that HBK, Bret Hart, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Hulk Hogan, Sting and Ric Flair were the top stars of the mid-90s. The WWE successfully passed the torch to Steve Austin who is about the same age as Sting. Then Austin pushed some of his heat onto The Rock who, in turn, ran with it.

You cannot run a lasting promotion with one top star.

Well Austin was a late blooming star. He had to retire because of his neck. The Rock became too big for the show. Eddie and Benoit are dead. Owen died. Angle went to TNA. Jericho left for awhile. The only ones that stayed were HHH and HBK.

They have elevated a couple of younger guys like Edge, Orton, Punk and Cena. But there are tons of guys in the WWE they can pass the torch to but they dont. They keep them mired in the mid-card. Not just Swagger and Christian. But Kofi, Dibiase, MVP, Carlito, Masters, etc. Shit they dont even pay attention to the tag teams anymore. Vince has nobody to blame but himself. He had the talent, but squashed it under over the hill talent like The Undertaker and HHH or no talents like The Big Show, Batista, Mark Henry and the Great Khali.

[TripleSkeet]

Angle/Styles for the 50th time is the main event? Yeah, they're really shaking things up.

Well they are trying to show off what they can do to the people checking it out for the first time. Thats a big way to do it. They are two of the best.

[Melk]

Well Austin was a late blooming star. He had to retire because of his neck. The Rock became too big for the show. Eddie and Benoit are dead. Owen died. Angle went to TNA. Jericho left for awhile. The only ones that stayed were HHH and HBK.
Eddie, Benoit and Hart never got the torch. Benoit was the closest to getting the right heat, but he was functionally unable to cut a promo. Eddie was a great mid-card heal, but he also never quite got it. And Owen was the Blue Blazer, like it or not. Jericho is the closest to a star because of his "VH1" appearances. Angle is the only active wrestler who "had" the torch.

[TripleSkeet]

Eddie, Benoit and Hart never got the torch. Benoit was the closest to getting the right heat, but he was functionally unable to cut a promo. Eddie was a great mid-card heal, but he also never quite got it. And Owen was the Blue Blazer, like it or not. Jericho is the closest to a star because of his "VH1" appearances. Angle is the only active wrestler who "had" the torch.

I dont know if I agree with that. They had both Benoit and Eddie win World Championships at Wrestlemania. You dont get a bigger shot at carrying the ball then that.

[hammersavage]

how did that commercial just happen?

[Melk]

I dont know if I agree with that. They had both Benoit and Eddie win World Championships at Wrestlemania. You dont get a bigger shot at carrying the ball then that.
It isn't so much that winning at Mania cements your legacy as a marque player. I would say that Macho Man had the torch and then had his value wrecked by his remaining time in the WWE and WCW.

[TripleSkeet]

It isn't so much that winning at Mania cements your legacy as a marque player. I would say that Macho Man had the torch and then had his value wrecked by his remaining time in the WWE and WCW.

Macho Man is a legend in most wrestling fans eyes.

Theres nothing Id rather see then Macho Man show up in TNA and walk into Jay Lethal.

[paulisded]

I'm extremely bored by both shows.

[K.C.]

Styles/Angle is always going to be a good match, even though it's been seen a bunch.

[TripleSkeet]

Its a great match.

I gotta give credit, the "Who needs Bret?' chants were pretty funny.

[hanso]

Is Hulk just coming out? I'm late to the game.
HS! that's Eric's- bitch -gettin -off!?

[asayresk]

As much as i love bret hart, vince kicking him in the nuts is pretty damn funny.

[K.C.]

As much as i love bret hart, vince kicking him in the nuts is pretty damn funny.

I guess it shows Bret has a sense of humor about the thing, now, that he agreed to it.

[asayresk]

I guess it shows Bret has a sense of humor about the thing, now, that he agreed to it.

dare i say bret vs vince wrestlemania?:clap:

[K.C.]

dare i say bret vs vince wrestlemania?:clap:

Nah, Bret can't really take a bump because he had a stroke.

But I wouldn't be surprised if he does a run-in on whatever the big McMahon clusterfuck match is this year.

He'll obviously be at the show since they're putting Stu in the HOF.

[asayresk]

it bout time they put stu in. they should put the whole family in just like the von erichs.

[Melk]

Macho Man is a legend in most wrestling fans eyes.

Theres nothing Id rather see then Macho Man show up in TNA and walk into Jay Lethal.
If Bret were healthy, I think you may have a guy that could give you an immediate marquee player. Macho doesn't have the heat to be a marquee guy. Flair, HHH and HBK are played out. Hogan cannot wrestle at all. Hall was never a true top guy. Nash failed as a top man. Sting should've been a bigger deal, but his victory over Hogan was botched.

Who is a real marquee player who come in and successfully pass his torch to the younger generation of performer?

[asayresk]

If Bret were healthy, I think you may have a guy that could give you an immediate marquee player. Macho doesn't have the heat to be a marquee guy. Flair, HHH and HBK are played out. Hogan cannot wrestle at all. Hall was never a true top guy. Nash failed as a top man. Sting should've been a bigger deal, but his victory over Hogan was botched.

Who is a real marquee player who come in and successfully pass his torch to the younger generation of performer?

The great one Rocky Mavia

[foodcourtdruide]

I can't believe how much crap was in the tna show. The Outsiders are all around 50. They look ridiculous. The Nasty Boys are so fucking terrible. While they were destroying the locker room, one screamed out, "I'm sick of this place!" Uhhhhh, what? You just snuck into TNA for the first time. This is literally your first time there. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????

[Melk]

I didn't watch a whole lot of Raw, I kept my SlingBox tuned to TNA. I wasn't terrible impressed. Better luck next time when more of the marquee players are dead.

[Melk]

As much as i love bret hart, vince kicking him in the nuts is pretty damn funny.
That sounds dreadful. I don't understand how the WWE gets away with a punch in the balls or ass kiss as an end of a session. Why wouldn't Bret get up and beat the hell out of Vince? Getting socked in the nuts hurts, sure, but Bret has a 10-15 year vendetta against Vince. It "should" mean more than that. If I were doing this, I would have Bret start a new dungeon and lead a group of established talent and new faces who would then just dominate the promotion, take all of the gold, and hold onto it (semi-legit) for a year. Eventually, the most over member breaks away from the Hart Foundation and leads the counter attack with The Rock or Stone Cold as his WWE-grounded partner.

The gimmick is so easy... but sure, just kick Bret in the nuts. Brilliant. Great booking.

[TripleSkeet]

Ok, I watched both.

Im still holding my opinion on the vets at TNA right now. If they use them to help put over the younger guys like Matt Morgan and Desmond Wolfe it will be well worth it.

They still need to work on small things, like replays during the matches. That Styles match really couldve used that.

By the way, TNA put on a way better show then Raw tonight. With the exception of the HBK / Hart handshake and Santino, Raw was the usual dogshit.

Now people here asked why TNA would put on Angle vs. Styles in a match thats been done alot already. And the answer was to show off the top guys in the company to new fans viewing TNA for the first time.

Meanwhile, of the 5 wrestling matches on Raw tonight....4 of them have been done at least 7-8 times in the last 3 months. The only original Raw match tonight was Seamus vs. Evan Bourne in a match where Seamus took Bournes finisher, wiped it off of himself in Goldbergesque fashion, and proceeded to squash the shit out of him. What the fuck is the point of that?

WWE wasnt trying to win new fans. They shouldve been trying to show their fans how superior their product was. Instead I see HHH trainging a midget like it was his pet. Jerichos off of Raw now...making it even worse. Randy Orton fought Kofi Kingston in the 15th match that has meant nothing in their feud. And the same 4 guys fought to see who could wrestle for the US title.....again. MVP won it. Congrats. He had that same title for almost like a year already. Talk about going nowhere. Not to mention their big headliner, the guy they push to the moon, was too busy flipping a coin at the Fiesta Bowl to be bothered with a Raw of this magnitude.

And heres the coup de gras. You have a fucking stable named THE HART DYNASTY. Consisting of all younger relatives of Bret Hart. Ya think tonight may be a good night to have them on the Raw hes fucking guest hosting??? Maybe??? Another missed oppurtunity. Like not having midget court when Vern Troyer was the host.

And the rumors ARE about Bret Hart fighting Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania. Its been going around the dirtsheets for 2 weeks already.

[Melk]

Im still holding my opinion on the vets at TNA right now. If they use them to help put over the younger guys like Matt Morgan and Desmond Wolfe it will be well worth it.
I will just go based off of the moment. The show was underwhelming.

They opened the show with a hard-to-see cage match that culminated in a no-contest, a failed attempt to scale the cage and a run in by Jeff Hardy. I think they should have begun the show with an elimination 6-way match where actual pinfalls or eliminations happened after some really fast, crisp and impressive exchanges from the X-Division guys.

Cage matches are really only good for pay-per views for the simple fact that they are usually not very interesting to watch (and often are difficult to see, thus "The Hell in a Cell Matches" filtering outside of the ring) in the moment but are pretty great to build up toward in the weeks prior to the match.

Both promotions need to ditch the backstage skits. Pro wrestling has this tendency to break the 4th and 5th walls on a regular basis and yet the superstars are oblivious to the their best friends plotting against them. In one episode, you'll see a wrestler watching the monitor of a match taking place in the ring. But, they don't notice the skits?

The WWE and TNA should somewhat resemble a sport. Sure, it is sports entertainment, but it works better when it resembles a sport more so.

They still need to work on small things, like replays during the matches. That Styles match really couldve used that.
I think this is a good point. I also think it is unfair to completely bust on Mike Tenay when he is not made aware of the booking decisions in TNA. Ross is (or, at least, was) a member of the booking committee and knows exactly how to react to the material presented. Tenay is left to guess what is happening in the ring. Hyperbole aside, Tenay isn't too bad at what he does.

By the way, TNA put on a way better show then Raw tonight. With the exception of the HBK / Hart handshake and Santino, Raw was the usual dogshit.
I thought that TNA was a little more interesting because I wasn't sure what they were going to do or who was going to show up but it was not good. The new fan's understanding of what Mick Foley's relationship to the company is was not really made clear until Bishoff made it more clear. So, is Hogan going to be a face or a heel? That wasn't made clear. Is he, Hall, Nash, or Waltman going to wrestle?

The TNA women wrestlers are pretty decent in the ring, but they are missing something. It might just be that the stink of the WWE Divas fouls my enjoyment of seeing wrestling women.

And heres the coup de gras. You have a fucking stable named THE HART DYNASTY. Consisting of all younger relatives of Bret Hart. Ya think tonight may be a good night to have them on the Raw hes fucking guest hosting??? Maybe??? Another missed oppurtunity.
I think you are right there.

And the rumors ARE about Bret Hart fighting Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania. Its been going around the dirtsheets for 2 weeks already.
Could be great, but...

[TripleSkeet]

This is why they call him the Mad Genius...
http://heymanhustle.craveonline.com/articles/news/37888-paul-heyman-the-real-story-behindqthe-monday-night-war-2010q

[conman823]

And now for my worthless opinion about both shows:


Bret Hart was in the house for 3 segments. Way to use the biggest "Guest Host" too date.
I haven't watched RAW in at least a year, I fast forwarded through most of it as it was horrifically bad.
Randy Orton........who even gives a shit at this point. A huge night for Wrestling in general and I get ol' Chin Lock in action. THIS GUY FUCKING SUCKS WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
Guess we will be seeing a lot more of Bret in the comming weeks. I guess my youtube will be running overtime.
RAW Highlight: Bret and Shawn (I would love to know what Shawn whispered in his ear at the end.)
RAW Lowlight: Why even put those Divas out there?



TNA started off like shit. That Cage match owes me an apology, and Jeff Hardy should just hurry up and join the Under 40 club already.
I'm going to say that Hogan brought along all of the 'gang' because it is what we all expected him too do. Now in the comming weeks we SHOULD see then get weeded out by jobing to the New Talent. If that doesn't happen, well it will be nice to relive history again.
TNA offered superior matches to RAW. Prove me wrong. Backstage segments ate up too much time, and the off script interviews will need an adjustment period.
Did we ever really define Bischoffs role in the company? Is he GM? Is he Hogans represenative? In "real Life' isn't he Marketing Head or something?
Like it or not Hogan did what he said, he brought TNA to a new level. Now only time will tell if we end up with WCW2 or a true 2nd choice in this business that has needed some comp for a long, long time.
TNA Highlight: AJ Styles vs. Angle. It was a match that showcased Wrestling. I don't care how many times it was done, a lot of new people saw it for the first time. AJ Styles is worth every bit of the hype. If you can see it then you have forgotten what real wrestling is about.
TNA Lowlight: Cage Match. And the production seemed......overcrowded. Like we were forcing too much to quick.

[Fallon]

They HAVE to get rid of Tenay. Does anybody enjoy his commentary?

He fucking sucks. TWICE he missed calling the Angle Slam and Taz had to cover.

Always disliked him.

[Fallon]

Hahaha! I can't see what's going on inside the cage!

That is the worst steel cage I've ever seen. The red is waaaay too bright and the beams are waaaay too think. You can't even see inside.

Totally. "Beer Money"? Ohhh that's so cool!

APA should sue.

Loved the quick cam change when a bit of buttcrack was shown!

I slowed it down and the crack didn't even show, it was getting there but it didn't. Panicky Petes.

Wow, flair!

Take the "wow" and exclamation point out of that sentence and that's what I said.

[conman823]

He fucking sucks. TWICE he missed calling the Angle Slam and Taz had to cover.

Always disliked him.

Both companies need to find some new blood in the play by play people.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

According to ratings, they did a 2.2. Spike TV will be very pleased as they never quite broke the 1.0 level by much. So far Hogan is a good investment.

[conman823]

All the latest ratings info on last night's Monday Night War...

UPDATE: Dave Meltzer reports that Impact did a 1.5 rating as previously reported. The show did hours of 1.7, 1.4 and 1.2. TNA was very happy with the numbers, even though it isn't good that they dropped from hour to hour. But that was expected.

- There is no number for Raw yet, but with the 5.6 million viewers the show did, the rating should be a 3.7 or 3.8. The feeling is that TNA cost WWE a half-point in the ratings, maybe more. The strong first hour for TNA carried over to the second.

- After the segment with Hogan, Hall, Waltman, Nash and Bischoff there was a significant drop in the numbers, as many people turned into Raw.

- At this point it seems like a lock that TNA will run Monday nights again due to the strong rating they drew last night and the buzz that TNA now has. It could be very good for the business to have TNA air Monday nights and TNA on Mondays may become permanent.


ORIGINAL: - TNA Impact drew a 1.5 rating with 2.2 million viewers, easily a new ratings record for TNA. Impact peaked with 2.9 million viewers for the 9PM to 9:15PM ET segment which featured Hulk Hogan. That segment went head to head with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels on RAW. TNA's previous record high rating was a 1.33 with 1.97 million viewers, so last night's rating beat their record by over 200,000 viewers.

- RAW drew 5.6 million viewers, its highest viewership since August 24th (the night after Summerslam).

- The combined Monday night wrestling audience of 7.8 million viewers is obviously the highest it has been in a very long time.


:smoke:

[TripleSkeet]

That is the worst steel cage I've ever seen. The red is waaaay too bright and the beams are waaaay too think. You can't even see inside.



APA should sue.



Not to mention whoever designed the cage made it virtually impossible to get out of. Poor Homicide. He tried his ass off to get out of the top of that dome. Too bad the camera pulled away before he fell.

As far as Beer Money goes, it would look like the same gimmick as the APA, but the whole story behind them is they were singles wrestlers, Robert Roode's gimmick was that he was rich. James Storm was a cowboy that liked to drink. They eventually teamed up in some tournament and won the titles, and wound up becoming a pretty strong tag team. Hence the BEER (Storm) MONEY (Roode).

[King Hippos Bandaid]

I watched TNA because RAW was a sandwich of crap with 2 really awesome pieces of bread


The Beginning and End of Raw was cool, the rest the same unwatchable garbage



TNA was okay , but all the swerves returns and debuts it made it kinda cool

[newport king]

i haven't watched wrestling in awhile

i watched both.

hart & hbk in ring was cool to see.

the ending with mcmahon in the ring was terrible.

everything inbetween sucked too. WHY do they still have orton as a main guy? he stinks. cody rhodes seems ok but jack swagger in my opinion is better AND has a better lisp.

Dibiase looks like he could be a main eventer.

Seamus is a joke right?

and i never got the MVP gimmick. i guess he wears that outfit to cover up the shitty prison tats. but its gotta suck to catch on with such a bad gimmick that you're now stuck with it.

Ive watched TNA a few times but like a few people said here AJ/Angle...i've never seen it before and was very impressed. But isn't Angle looking at jail time? Something about him and a black chick he was living with?

What is Ric Flair doing? Didn't vince pretty much give him everything when he retired? Same with hogan. Like do these guys have a personal thing with vince?

Raven looks 50. And he and stevie richards got squashed in that match. I don't think i even got the name of the guys they were wrestling.

Never understood what the big deal was with Samoa Joe. Is it that he's an agile fat man? If thats the case, Bam Bam Bigelow was the greatest wrestler of all time.

I think their womens division is suprisingly good.

NWO was pretty cool in 97. it's 2010.

[TripleSkeet]

i haven't watched wrestling in awhile

i watched both.

hart & hbk in ring was cool to see.

the ending with mcmahon in the ring was terrible.

everything inbetween sucked too. WHY do they still have orton as a main guy? he stinks. cody rhodes seems ok but jack swagger in my opinion is better AND has a better lisp.

Dibiase looks like he could be a main eventer.

Seamus is a joke right?

and i never got the MVP gimmick. i guess he wears that outfit to cover up the shitty prison tats. but its gotta suck to catch on with such a bad gimmick that you're now stuck with it.

Ive watched TNA a few times but like a few people said here AJ/Angle...i've never seen it before and was very impressed. But isn't Angle looking at jail time? Something about him and a black chick he was living with?

What is Ric Flair doing? Didn't vince pretty much give him everything when he retired? Same with hogan. Like do these guys have a personal thing with vince?

Raven looks 50. And he and stevie richards got squashed in that match. I don't think i even got the name of the guys they were wrestling.

Never understood what the big deal was with Samoa Joe. Is it that he's an agile fat man? If thats the case, Bam Bam Bigelow was the greatest wrestler of all time.

I think their womens division is suprisingly good.

NWO was pretty cool in 97. it's 2010.

I agree with most of this.

I like Orton. My only problem is hes fought Kofi Kingston about 6 times in the last 2 months.

Angle doesnt have any legal problems at the moment.. Now Jeff Hardy could be a different story.


You nailed Samoa Joe. But that doesnt mean hes not good. Bam Bam was awesome too.

I dont think Flair or Hogan are out to hurt Vince McMahon. Theyve even said as much. Its not in WCW where Bischoff wanted to put Vince out of business. I think Hogan and Flair realized that with the WWE being the only bigtime wrestling company, the future wrestlers are pretty much fucked. They have no leverage. Being a pro wrestler could mean Vince tells you to go to the ring in a tutu while sucking your thumb and the guys will have to do it or they just wont work.

Without a union the only way to look out for the future generation of wrestlers is to have a legit competitor for them to be able to go to. And I think these old timers are trying to use their names to set that competitor up before its too late. I cant fault them for it. Thats how you REALLY pass the torch to the younger guys. Give them options on where they can work so their services are appreciated and they arent just used and abused for one families entertainment.

For the record, if the WWE continues to ignore Jack Swagger I see him being a defection to TNA....where the guy will be a main eventer.

[Melk]

You nailed Samoa Joe. But that doesnt mean hes not good. Bam Bam was awesome too.
Samoa Joe is one of the few America-seasoned pro wrestlers that is good at the All Japan Pro Wrestling-style. Excellent ring timing, good stamina.

I think the way TNA sold him was ineffective. They pushed his reputation without letting the fans learn about him organically. I know he had a reputation because of Ring of Honor, but how many casual TNA fans know about that.

The WCW was much better at selling international wrestling experience. They educated, TNA assumes you already know.