Is Crate Training Bad?

[sr71blackbird]

If you crate train a dog from puppyhood, is it cruel? Let's say he is in the crate for 9 hours?

[Aggie]

for their whole life? yes.

i think the point is to train it in the crate as a puppy when they aren't housebroken and more apt to chew things. once they are older they should be able to stay out in the house or yard if you're leaving them home all day.

the whole reason i don't have a dog is because we both work. i don't think that's fair to the dog.

[topless_mike]

some dogs find the crate to be a sense of protection. my grandfadder has a an adult dobermin that sleeps in the crate. the crate is there, and the door never closes, the dog just loves to sleep in it for whatever reason.

[Aggie]

some dogs find the crate to be a sense of protection. my grandfadder has a an adult dobermin that sleeps in the crate. the crate is there, and the door never closes, the dog just loves to sleep in it for whatever reason.

my dad's dogs do too and that's a good thing because they associate the crate with good things. i'm assuming he means keeping them in the closed crate from puppyhood for up to 9 hours a day.

[EliSnow]

When we had our bulldog, we crate changed her and it really worked. Was it cruel? I can't say for certain. I know my wife hated me for doing it, but she doesn't like me letting my kids cry in their crib to get to sleep.

[JPMNICK]

queue angry missy to tell you for the 11th time that you work to long to properly care for a puppy and adopt in

4

3

2

1

[opie's twisted balls]

I'm no cesar millan but here's my take on crate training a puppy.

1) Start early. For me it was the first place my dog was introduced when I brought him home from the breeder. Straight to his crate (which I had blocked off half of it so it didn't feel too big for the little fella) with a blanket and a toy.
2) The crate isn't punishment*. I never scolded my boy and then put him into his crate.
3) The crate is his safe zone. Whenever I put him in the crate it was always with an assuring "go to your house" comment followed by praise. To this day I can say "go to your house" and without any argument or resistance off he goes to either a crate if its around or to his bed.
4) If he pooped/pissed in the crate again no punishment. I was my fault for not letting him out of the crate to do his business. If that happened I'd take him outside (even if he had just made a mess in the crate) let him sniff around, clean up the crate and then put him in just for a minute or so with lots of praise.
5) Never feed him in crate. The crate was never associated with food. Not to use food as a reward to get him to go in or give his regular meal.
6) The crate is a place to be quite**. If he was put in and especially as a puppy would whine or bark he'd be told no then ignored till he stopped. Just reinforced that there are times to be social with people (which was 99% of the time) and there was time to go to his house and chill.
7) Once he started to have better bathroom habits and would be able to signal (I used a bear bell tied to a string and taught him to bat at that instead of pawing at the crate or outside door) I would open up more of the house for him. First part of the kitchen, then the whole kitchen, whole main floor then the house. Idea is to make him think that you never shit in your house. His house starts out small with the crate and increases in size with his responsibility and ability to control.

A couple of side notes.
*The first place I took my buddy for obedience training was a fucking gong show. The woman running the place can only be described as an evil cunt. She had the fake tan, fake nails, big dyed hair, 6" stiletto pumps and bitchy attitude to match. Her thought on crate training is that it should be used as a means to discipline. Someone in the class asked "so what if my dog barks when I put him in" to which she replies "shake the crate vigorously till he stops". I could have ripped off her clit with a pair of vice grips right then and there.

**One of the things I found that helped settle my pup down for the first week or so was to run the dishwasher. After he had tinkled and shat I'd put him in the crate, run the dishwasher and let him just sort of chill out. I guess its similar to the ticking alarm clock I've heard other people use, I tried that and didn't have any success.

Hope that helps.

[sr71blackbird]

queue angry missy to tell you for the 11th time that you work to long to properly care for a puppy and adopt in

4

3

2

1


I ended up getting a 5 and a half month old Boston Terrier. I built a 7 foot by 7 foot square enclosure in my living room with 3 foot high walls. I put his bed in there and a lined the floor with wee wee pads. I have food and water in there too. I took 3 days off work and had my weekend and basically stayed with him 24 hours a day. I rewarded him for going on the pads and expressed disappointment for when he missed. The true test was Wed when I went back to work and I left him in the enclosure with all his toys, treats and food and water. When I got home, it look liked someone tossed and hand grenade into the bathroom of a wee wee pad factory. I was disappointing but cleaned it up and went and got a crate. I did not put him in it or lock it up, but today I did leave the open crate within the enclosure. The mess was not as bad today as it was yesterday though. But I want him to get used to the idea of the crate in the event I need to put him in it. As it is, the first night he slept soundly within the enclosure, but the next night he wined all night I have a pet porter and I put him in that and kept him in my bedroom. He slept good and didnt bother anyone. Last night, same routine. If he destorys the enclosure again tomorrow, I will likely try crating him.

[sr71blackbird]

I'm no cesar millan but here's my take on crate training a puppy.

1) Start early. For me it was the first place my dog was introduced when I brought him home from the breeder. Straight to his crate (which I had blocked off half of it so it didn't feel too big for the little fella) with a blanket and a toy.
2) The crate isn't punishment*. I never scolded my boy and then put him into his crate.
3) The crate is his safe zone. Whenever I put him in the crate it was always with an assuring "go to your house" comment followed by praise. To this day I can say "go to your house" and without any argument or resistance off he goes to either a crate if its around or to his bed.
4) If he pooped/pissed in the crate again no punishment. I was my fault for not letting him out of the crate to do his business. If that happened I'd take him outside (even if he had just made a mess in the crate) let him sniff around, clean up the crate and then put him in just for a minute or so with lots of praise.
5) Never feed him in crate. The crate was never associated with food. Not to use food as a reward to get him to go in or give his regular meal.
6) The crate is a place to be quite**. If he was put in and especially as a puppy would whine or bark he'd be told no then ignored till he stopped. Just reinforced that there are times to be social with people (which was 99% of the time) and there was time to go to his house and chill.
7) Once he started to have better bathroom habits and would be able to signal (I used a bear bell tied to a string and taught him to bat at that instead of pawing at the crate or outside door) I would open up more of the house for him. First part of the kitchen, then the whole kitchen, whole main floor then the house. Idea is to make him think that you never shit in your house. His house starts out small with the crate and increases in size with his responsibility and ability to control.

A couple of side notes.
*The first place I took my buddy for obedience training was a fucking gong show. The woman running the place can only be described as an evil cunt. She had the fake tan, fake nails, big dyed hair, 6" stiletto pumps and bitchy attitude to match. Her thought on crate training is that it should be used as a means to discipline. Someone in the class asked "so what if my dog barks when I put him in" to which she replies "shake the crate vigorously till he stops". I could have ripped off her clit with a pair of vice grips right then and there.

**One of the things I found that helped settle my pup down for the first week or so was to run the dishwasher. After he had tinkled and shat I'd put him in the crate, run the dishwasher and let him just sort of chill out. I guess its similar to the ticking alarm clock I've heard other people use, I tried that and didn't have any success.

Hope that helps.


Wow, that was very helpful! I really appreciate your insight. Good advice!

[Crossweird]

A 6-month-old puppy can't hold it for 9 hours. Putting it in a crate for that long will be training it to live in its mess.

[Aggie]

as soon as you get home from work you should be walking/running him for at LEAST an hour.

[JPMNICK]

I ended up getting a 5 and a half month old Boston Terrier. I built a 7 foot by 7 foot square enclosure in my living room with 3 foot high walls. I put his bed in there and a lined the floor with wee wee pads. I have food and water in there too. I took 3 days off work and had my weekend and basically stayed with him 24 hours a day. I rewarded him for going on the pads and expressed disappointment for when he missed. The true test was Wed when I went back to work and I left him in the enclosure with all his toys, treats and food and water. When I got home, it look liked someone tossed and hand grenade into the bathroom of a wee wee pad factory. I was disappointing but cleaned it up and went and got a crate. I did not put him in it or lock it up, but today I did leave the open crate within the enclosure. The mess was not as bad today as it was yesterday though. But I want him to get used to the idea of the crate in the event I need to put him in it. As it is, the first night he slept soundly within the enclosure, but the next night he wined all night I have a pet porter and I put him in that and kept him in my bedroom. He slept good and didnt bother anyone. Last night, same routine. If he destorys the enclosure again tomorrow, I will likely try crating him.


the area is WAYYYYYY to big for crate training. he needs like 2x3. most people get a crate and use a baby gate to divide it in half.

the smaller the area the more it trains them not to piss in their home area

[Aggie]

the area is WAYYYYYY to big for crate training. he needs like 2x3. most people get a crate and use a baby gate to divide it in half.

the smaller the area the more it trains them not to piss in their home area

wee wee pads are just training him to pee inside anyway.

[sr71blackbird]

Hmm.. The enclosure I am talking about is not the crate. The enclosure is just an area for him to stay in while I am at work. Picture a large wooden box with wee wee pads on the floor. I put his crate within the enclosure today so he can get used to it and go inside, etc. I did this so he can become familiar with the crate. I also figured if he cannot keep from making a mess within the enclosure, placing him inside the crate will become an option. While within the enclosure, he has free reign and can eat, sleep, pee, play and hang out. But so far, he is messing it up and when I come home, I have to clean up the mess. Yesterday was a horror show in the enclosure, but today he was a lot better. I guess the reason I made the thread is to see if it is perceived as cruel to keep a dog within a crate for 8 or 9 hours. Obviously he can stay quite a lot longer within the enclosure because he can relieve himself and eat and drink etc. He weighs 9.5 lbs and should get to 20 lbs.
I wanted him to learn to use the wee wee pads so that he can relieve himself once he is trained without having to wait for me to get home. I know that that is bizarre to most everyone I say it to, but I have a few friends and relatives who do exactly that and it seems perfectly fine for their dogs. I want him (like theirs) to be able to do both things (go for a walk and poop and also be able stay home and poop on the wee wee pads as needed).

[Contra]

The advice has been good here for puppy training. This is most of the things I did to train the dogs I've had. For most of my childhood we had dogs. We crate trained all of them (4). I have to say though 8 hours is kind of pushing it. If he is in the crate that long he is going to relieve himself. Doing that in the crate is bad. He will associate it as a bad place and hate being in it. As far as the size of the crate. They sell them with dividers, but I'm guessing the one you got doesn't have one. You want to shorten the crate to just enough space for him to turn around. Now that's ONLY if you are training for him not to relieve in the crate.
However the thing I wanted to stress the most is the end goal should be for him to eventually left out in the place while you are gone. That takes a while, my beagle took a little over a year, but that's also because my girl has another dog (6 year old collie). Them being both male it took a bit to trust them not to fight for alpha status when no one was home. Now it seems they do it more just to show off for us, it doesn't happen often.

[midwestjeff]

I ended up getting a 5 and a half month old Boston Terrier.

I have a BT mix and based solely on his amount of energy I never would have crated him.
Nice choice on the breed.

I built a 7 foot by 7 foot square enclosure in my living room with 3 foot high walls. I put his bed in there and a lined the floor with wee wee pads.

This sounds like a decent place to be a puppy for part of a day.

And as for sleeping, why not put him in the bed with you?
Just wear underwear.