Compulsory Sterilization: Do we have any other choice?

[StanUpshaw]

Every male child gets a vasectomy. Once you're 18, you're totally free to get it reversed or you can pursue IVF, whatever you desire.

Energy use, resource depletion, emissions, health care costs; all problems that will be improved by simply reducing population.

And by essentially eliminating unwanted pregnancy, there is evidence that it would have a huge impact on crime.

It's a drastic step, and on its face it seems like an intolerable abuse of governmental power, but I feel it's preferable to the "death by a thousand cuts" course we're currently on.

[Serpico1103]

I'll burn down a house and fly my plane into the sterilization building.

[disneyspy]

I'll burn down a house and fly my plane into the sterilization building.

how the hell can someone call you unfunny?
if i hadnt already submitted a POTD you'd be in

[Bob Impact]

I'll burn down a house and fly my plane into the sterilization building.

:clap:

[Hottub]

Education
Abstinence
Birth control
Civilized values

There are a few choices for you to chew on.

[StanUpshaw]

Yep, those have worked well so far.

[Serpico1103]

Education
Abstinence
Birth control
Civilized values

There are a few choices for you to chew on.

We have compulsory education. Why not compulsory sterilization? Or get the doctors off cancer and on making semen taste like strawberries so women will beg to swallow.

[Hottub]

Yep, those have worked well so far.

Pretty well around here.

[Bob Impact]

No but seriously, this is a fucking insane idea. I thought this kind of shit died with the Nazis.

[Serpico1103]

No but seriously, this is a fucking insane idea. I thought this kind of shit died with the Nazis.

Nazi aren't dead. Meeting at 8pm next friday, WF's house. Don't tell the "chosen people."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nazi aren't dead. Meeting at 8pm next friday, WF's house. Don't tell the "chosen people."

Dont bother flying into a building just kill yourself now.

[StanUpshaw]

No but seriously, this is a fucking insane idea. I thought this kind of shit died with the Nazis.

One is discriminatory eugenics, the other is population control. You don't see a difference?

[Bob Impact]

One is discriminatory eugenics, the other is population control. You don't see a difference?

Call it a difference if you like, you're still talking about a compulsory surgery that removes a volitional choice from a person. I can't believe I'm even typing out a logical argument to this. No. Just no. Forget you ever thought this because it's pure, unadulterated evil.

[Serpico1103]

Dont bother flying into a building just kill yourself now.

Such hate is so out of "character" for you. I am after all a citizen. I pay taxes. I don't commit crimes (at least not felonies).
Relax. Close your eyes and think of all the illegals drinking and driving.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Such hate is so out of "character" for you. I am after all a citizen. I pay taxes. I don't commit crimes (at least not felonies).
Relax. Close your eyes and think of all the illegals drinking and driving.

Hopefully none are pilots

[StanUpshaw]

Pretty well around here.

NJ (assuming that's where you're from) has the fifth lowest teen birth rate (24.9 per 1000), but that's still 70% higher than the average national birth rate (across all ages): 14.2 per 1000. So I'd say it's still a problem.

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?typ=3&ind=37&cat=2&sub=11&sortc=1&o=a
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?cat=2&ind=35

[Serpico1103]

Hopefully none are pilots

As long as we have plenty of government regulations the risk is minimized.

[Bob Impact]

One is discriminatory eugenics, the other is population control. You don't see a difference?

And fuck it, I'll bite on this... you do realize that the Nazi's forced almost half a million people to get sterilized against their wills right?

[StanUpshaw]

And fuck it, I'll bite on this... you do realize that the Nazi's forced almost half a million people to get sterilized against their wills right?

Ok? What does one have to do with the other?

[Bob Impact]

Ok? What does one have to do with the other?

Nazi - Forced Sterilization
Your Plan - Reversible Forced Sterilization

Your right, this is completely different.

[StanUpshaw]

Nazis also built highways and rockets.

[Tenbatsuzen]

http://thesuperficial.com/2009/02/17/0217_bristol_palin_rnc_00.JPG

[Bob Impact]

You've got to be trolling here so I'm done discussing this as if it's something real.

[Dude!]

selective sterilization is an idea
i could get behind

imagine how wonderful this
country would be if only people
of northern european descent
reproduced

it's such a good idea,
i'm surprised no one ever
thought of it before

[Serpico1103]

selective sterilization is an idea i could get behind imagine how wonderful this country would be if only people of northern european descent reproduced it's such a good idea, i'm surprised no one ever thought of it before

Was your father from Northern Europe?

[Dude!]

Was your father from Northern Europe?

of northern european descent

[StanUpshaw]

You've got to be trolling here so I'm done discussing this as if it's something real.

No, fuckface, I'm trying to get you to realize you're using completely bullshit logic. Namely the association fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_by_association). Just because Nazis instituted a sterilization program does not mean that sterilization programs are some unimaginable evil.

Obviously sterilization is not ideal. But neither is breeding ourselves into massive debt, global warming, and starvation.

[Serpico1103]

of northern european descent

grandfather? great grandfather?
I was hoping to snip some Dad Dude nuts.

[Bob Impact]

No, fuckface, I'm trying to get you to realize you're using completely bullshit logic. Namely the association fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_by_association). Just because Nazis instituted a sterilization program does not mean that sterilization programs are some unimaginable evil.

Obviously sterilization is not ideal. But neither is breeding ourselves into massive debt, global warming, and starvation.

First, settle down champ, and please don't try to bring wikipedia links to logical fallacies into this when your original post is riddled with them. Secondly, fine, I'll play along...
Removing an individuals rights at any time, particularly as a child when they are helpless, through a surgery that could have dramatic negative repercussions is the most morally abhorrent thing I've ever heard. It's a disgusting idea that I haven't heard come up since the Nazi's were doing it.

[StanUpshaw]

First, settle down champ, and please don't try to bring wikipedia links to logical fallacies into this when your original post is riddled with them. Secondly, fine, I'll play along...
Removing an individuals rights at any time, particularly as a child when they are helpless, through a surgery that could have dramatic negative repercussions is the most morally abhorrent thing I've ever heard. It's a disgusting idea that I haven't heard come up since the Nazi's were doing it.

First off, dozens of countries had sterilization programs, including the US and Canada, so please drop the inflammatory Nazi references.

Secondly, giving up individual rights is INTRINSIC to the functioning of society. You're just not used to this one, so you label it immoral. Can you even explain what that means? Why is an elementary surgical procedure immoral while an immunization shot is not?

[Bob Impact]

First off, dozens of countries had sterilization programs, including the US and Canada, so please drop the inflammatory Nazi references.

Secondly, giving up individual rights is INTRINSIC to the functioning of society. You're just not used to this one, so you label it immoral. Can you even explain what that means? Why is an elementary surgical procedure immoral while an immunization shot is not?

What was that you said about association fallacies?

Any action which impinges upon the rights of an individual is immoral. Want proof of that? Let's look at your initial post:


Every male child gets a vasectomy. Once you're 18, you're totally free to get it reversed or you can pursue IVF, whatever you desire.

Energy use, resource depletion, emissions, health care costs; all problems that will be improved by simply reducing population.

And by essentially eliminating unwanted pregnancy, there is evidence that it would have a huge impact on crime.

It's a drastic step, and on its face it seems like an intolerable abuse of governmental power, but I feel it's preferable to the "death by a thousand cuts" course we're currently on.

So what you're saying here is people having too many children impinges upon the shared resources of the world, thus causing damage to the rest of society. This is wrong because it is harmful to human life. Your argument is based upon the fact that people should not be allowed to have children before the arbitrary age of 18 based upon your belief that it will reduce the effect they have on the rest of society, in other words, your plan is to stop them from having a compulsory effect on society by having a compulsory effect on them, before they have done a single thing or taken a single step in the direction you think is causing the issue. You really don't see a problem with that logic?

[SatCam]

we should only sterilize the retards like sarah palin and her son

[StanUpshaw]

This is very simple.

Unchecked population growth, while maintaining current living standards, is unsustainable.

We can confront the problem by either lowering living standards or by lowering population.

The lowering of living standards, either through government intervention or simple physical scarcity is, by far, a more objectionable scenario than my proposal; classifying reproduction as one of the rights a citizen is entitled to, only upon reaching the age of majority.

[Bob Impact]

we should only sterilize the retards like sarah palin and her son

Sometimes I forget why I have such a fondness for you, and then you post.

[StanUpshaw]

This RISUG procedure looks fucking amazing.

http://www.medindia.net/news/Clinical-Trials-of-Injectible-Male-Contraceptive-Extended-to-More-Indian-States-32186-1.htm

[A.J.]

I'm doing my part.

[badmonkey]

This is very simple.

Unchecked population growth, while maintaining current living standards, is unsustainable.

We can confront the problem by either lowering living standards or by lowering population.

The lowering of living standards, either through government intervention or simple physical scarcity is, by far, a more objectionable scenario than my proposal; classifying reproduction as one of the rights a citizen is entitled to, only upon reaching the age of majority.

I don't understand people that talk seriously about how much they believe in this overpopulation crap but continue to insist on using up their share of valuable resources keeping themselves alive anyway. Fucking hypocrites.

[FUNKMAN]

you could get the new birth control they have for women

it fits over their wine glass

[StanUpshaw]

I would have advocated the mandatory vasectomy, but seriously, this RISUG procedure could be one of the most important advancements of all time.

It's simply a tiny injection into the vas deferens, and a quick blast of irradiation to cure the polymer. Then it's another simple injection to reverse it. It's already started human trials and they results are amazing.
http://www.imccoalition.org/newsletter/2008_July_public.htm

* Effectiveness - There has been only one unplanned pregnancy among partners of the 250 men who have been injected RISUG — apparently due to an improperly administered injection. 15 of these men received the injection more than 10 years ago.
* Convenience - There is no interruption before the sexual act.
* Non-invasiveness - The process, once it is refined and approved, is expected to be operation-free. Men can leave the hospital immediately after an injection and resume their normal sex lives within a week.
* Duration of effect - According to Guha, a single 60 mg injection can be effective for at least 10 years.
* Reduced side effects - After testing RISUG on more than 250 volunteers, neither Guha nor other researchers in the field report side effects other than a slight scrotal swelling in some men immediately following the injection, which goes away after a few weeks, though there are also unconfirmed reports of kidney problems.
* Reversible - The contraceptive action appears to be reversible by flushing the vas deferens with another injection of dimethyl sulfoxide or sodium bicarbonate solution. (The sodium bicarbonate solution cannot be used as the solvent in the initial injection since it would neutralize the positive charge effect.) Although this reversal procedure has been tried only on primates, it has been repeatedly successful. Unlike in a vasectomy (see Blood-testis barrier), the vas deferens is not completely blocked, the body doesn't have to absorb the blocked sperm, and sperm antibodies are not produced in large numbers, making successful reversal more likely than with a vasovasostomy.

[epo]

Forced birth control is stupid and so is abstinence-only education.

Maybe our culture should try growing up first and deal with the fact that people of all ages enjoy intercourse.

[StanUpshaw]

What is "stupid"? How is that an argument?

Abstinence only has proven itself ineffective.

Forced birth control could be argued as immoral, but in all cases, morals have to be weighed against pragmatism.

[Bob Impact]

What is "stupid"? How is that an argument?

Abstinence only has proven itself ineffective.

Forced birth control could be argued as immoral, but in all cases, morals have to be weighed against pragmatism.

You can weigh your pragmatism far far away from my genitals.

[StanUpshaw]

Well, technically it won't be your genitals, just your prepubescent children's.