Chris Christie Walking the Walk

[Recyclerz]

For the most part. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/nyregion/17budget.html?hp) No promised property tax rebates, but plenty of spending cuts (including aid to schools and municipalities) as well as no funding to the state pension fund.

I'm curious to see how this plays out. Christie is doing what he said he would (some of which I actually agree with) so we'll see how the NJ public reacts. Services, including schools, will take a pretty solid shot to the nuts especially if the localities don't jack up local property taxes. (Christie wants to limit their ability to do so.) I'm hoping that NJ property owners react to all this in this thread. I think the fundamental problem with our country is that we expect certain government services but don't want to pay for them. I propose that we have to experiment with the proposals of the Commies and the Tea-baggers to see which we really hate less. NJ will be an interesting 'speriment. I hope Ronnie B dons a lab coat and gets some beakers so that he can determine its efficacy.

[Syd]

If they enjoyed the falling housing prices, wait till their infrastructure around them crumbles. Enjoy that, but at least it's better than paying taxes right?

[JPMNICK]

If they enjoyed the falling housing prices, wait till their infrastructure around them crumbles. Enjoy that, but at least it's better than paying taxes right?

there is so much tax money floating around in NJ, there are better ways to allocate it then there are now. WAY to much waste all around

[TripleSkeet]

I dont know where in NJ you live but we pay more then enough property taxes in my township. They raise it anymore and half of the township wont be able to afford to live here anymore.

[landarch]

I felt compelled to vote against this governor because he is dangerous when it comes to my continued employment, not to mention my family's health benefits and the pension that comes along with my job. The rest of my family for the most part is in education, so they don't like him either. Secretly though, and quietly in front of my family, I really like this guy. He seems to be so far and away different from any other modern-day politician, in that he is backing up his words with swift, decisive actions despite what his opponents think or say about him. He doesn't seem to be so easily bought or influenced by anyone. I'm very interested to see where his term as governor takes us.


Unless I get laid off, then he'll be a fat gravy swilling scumbag.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Public sector unions. PARTY IS FUCKING OVER!!! Teachers unions DROP DEAD!!!!! Finally a politician with a set to stand up to these fucking parasites. NJ taxpayers dole out way too much to feed these leeches of society.

[sailor]

I dont know where in NJ you live but we pay more then enough property taxes in my township. They raise it anymore and half of the township wont be able to afford to live here anymore.

Looking into buying a house in jersey (basically an interested outsider) it's insane what some of the taxes are. looking for something around 300k we've seen yearly taxes over 13k (in the extreme) with most falling around 7-9k. for comparison, there was a 1.5+ million house a few blocks from where we are for sale with taxes around 2k. msn did a comparison on highest property taxes around the country and for most other areas the highest average property taxes were under 2k.

[El Mudo]

Public sector unions. PARTY IS FUCKING OVER!!! Teachers unions DROP DEAD!!!!! Finally a politician with a set to stand up to these fucking parasites. NJ taxpayers dole out way too much to feed these leeches of society.


Teachers are "leeches of society"?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Teachers are "leeches of society"?

Please read what I posted

TEACHERS UNIONS!!!!!!!!! NEA/AFT et al.

Our whole public school system has crumbled thanks to them. All this lotto revenue, billions over the years and still its failing, but the unions are doing quite well.

[El Mudo]

Please read what I posted

TEACHERS UNIONS!!!!!!!!! NEA/AFT et al.

Our whole public school system has crumbled thanks to them. All this lotto revenue, billions over the years and still its failing, but the unions are doing quite well.

Aren't teacher's unions made up of teachers?

[TjM]

Public sector unions. PARTY IS FUCKING OVER!!! Teachers unions DROP DEAD!!!!! Finally a politician with a set to stand up to these fucking parasites. NJ taxpayers dole out way too much to feed these leeches of society.

Go fuck yourself. My mom was a fucking teacher for thirty fucking years and did a damn good job. Teachers if anything are underpaid

[foodcourtdruide]

Go fuck yourself. My mom was a fucking teacher for thirty fucking years and did a damn good job. Teachers if anything are underpaid

Don't take it personally. It's just recycling conservative talking points. Union's are bad, no matter what.

[Dude!]

Go fuck yourself. My mom was a fucking teacher for thirty fucking years and did a damn good job. Teachers if anything are underpaid

you guys need to learn how
to READ

he said teacher's UNION
the NEA is one of the most
insidious groups out there

many teachers are fine
their union is evil

[TripleSkeet]

Fuck this fat piece of shit. NJ has the highest property taxes in the country, and the first thing he does is take away a rebate check which is a small fraction of our overall taxes?Unreal. It wasnt much but it helped.

And this pussy isnt standing up to unions either. He pounded his chest about how he was going to undo Corzines agreement, guess what? Hes gonna give them their raises in July AND January. He talked big against the unions and they made him their bitch. The only people hes fucking with all the school budget cuts are the kids.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Go fuck yourself. My mom was a fucking teacher for thirty fucking years and did a damn good job. Teachers if anything are underpaid

Hey idiot, maybe you didnt learn how to read!!! I said nothing about the teachers. You cant fathom the difference? You pathetic douche!!!!

Since the 1960'S the NEA/AFT have ruined the public school system, and in the 70's that jackass Carter started the dept of education which is NOT NEEDED!!!!!


Did you talk like that to your TEACHERS?

[Tenbatsuzen]

The only people hes fucking with all the school budget cuts are the kids.

Not necessarily.

The NJEA bitches about how much money Christie is taking away from them, and how do they do it? They buy airtime on 101.5 and 660 WFAN (at the very least) to bitch about it.

So yeah, strap in. The teachers who are dedicated will stick to it. The teachers who couldn't give a rats ass about your kid and more concerned about their benes will jump, and then will be replaced with teachers who actually want to teach.

Basically, Christie's trying to weed out the bad seeds who have tenure. It's machievellian, really, and quite awesome.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you guys need to learn how
to READ

he said teacher's UNION
the NEA is one of the most
insidious groups out there

many teachers are fine
their union is evil

Thank you sir!!!

[underdog]

Public sector unions. PARTY IS FUCKING OVER!!! Teachers unions DROP DEAD!!!!! Finally a politician with a set to stand up to these fucking parasites. NJ taxpayers dole out way too much to feed these leeches of society.

Please read what I posted

TEACHERS UNIONS!!!!!!!!! NEA/AFT et al.

Our whole public school system has crumbled thanks to them. All this lotto revenue, billions over the years and still its failing, but the unions are doing quite well.

Seriously! Fuck those teachers and their unions! I'm so sick of teachers making millions of dollars a year and living in mansions! They've thrived off our dumbness long enough!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fixed it for you

Seriously! Fuck the NEA/AFT ! I'm so sick of Union Bosses making millions of dollars a year and living in mansions! They've thrived off our TAXES long enough!

[underdog]

Fixed it for you

Aren't their union bosses also teachers?

We've realized that you obviously hate education. I think the only way to fix it is to hire illegal immigrants.

[JPMNICK]

hey BTW, teachers make pretty fucking good money. the old addage that they are underpaid is false.

starting salary in schools around union county are 50k.

veteran teachers can be making 100k a year.

seriously, how many 23 year old out of college can start making 50k?

[TjM]

Hey idiot, maybe you didnt learn how to read!!! I said nothing about the teachers. You cant fathom the difference? You pathetic douche!!!!

Since the 1960'S the NEA/AFT have ruined the public school system, and in the 70's that jackass Carter started the dept of education which is NOT NEEDED!!!!!


Did you talk like that to your TEACHERS?


No I talk like that to assholes

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Aren't their union bosses also teachers?

We've realized that you obviously hate education. I think the only way to fix it is to hire illegal immigrants.

Hows that possible? Do you want a bunch of illiterates teaching children how to read?

Why do you hate the children?

[underdog]

hey BTW, teachers make pretty fucking good money. the old addage that they are underpaid is false.

starting salary in schools around union county are 50k.

veteran teachers can be making 100k a year.

seriously, how many 23 year old out of college can start making 50k?

average NJ salary is $56,682 (http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary-new-jersey.html)

They start at $37k, which isn't very much money.

[underdog]

Do you want a bunch of illiterates teachild children how to read?

Exactly.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No I talk like that to assholes

OK spew that language to the union bosses.

[TjM]

What if they were illegals from like England or Canada. Then they would know how to read

[TjM]

OK spew that language to the union bosses.

You're a flawless moron

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What if they were illegals from like England or Canada. Then they would know how to read

Would you want an illegal from the UK to teach kids another word for cigarette?

[TjM]

Would you want an illegal from the UK to teach kids another word for cigarette?

Got me there

:laugh:

[JPMNICK]

average NJ salary is $56,682 (http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary-new-jersey.html)

They start at $37k, which isn't very much money.

check out union and morris counties, they pay much higher

[underdog]

check out union and morris counties, they pay much higher

I'm assuming it costs a lot to live there, as well.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Now onto the public sector workers. There's too many of them, many duplicate jobs ie assistants to the assistant. So much bureaucracy im sure NJ's DMV isn't better than any other states. The private sector is taking it in the chin, but the public workers are on cloud 9.

This isnt in just state and local gov't. The feds are infested with tons of useless paper pushers who produce nothing but get compensated very well and have benefits to die for.

[Tenbatsuzen]

check out union and morris counties, they pay much higher

in fairness, COL is much higher, but let's be honest - if you're out of college and making 37, that's a pretty good living, even for Jersey.

If you are a dual-income family, you're doing pretty well for yourself.

[El Mudo]

Fixed it for you

Teacher's unions get funding through taxes?

I thought they get funding from members dues?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Teacher's unions get funding through taxes?

I thought they get funding from members dues?

They also feed from the taxpayer.


http://croydoncraft.blogspot.com/2010/01/when-you-pay-your-school-property-taxes.html

[El Mudo]

Now onto the public sector workers. There's too many of them, many duplicate jobs ie assistants to the assistant. So much bureaucracy im sure NJ's DMV isn't better than any other states. The private sector is taking it in the chin, but the public workers are on cloud 9.

This isnt in just state and local gov't. The feds are infested with tons of useless paper pushers who produce nothing but get compensated very well and have benefits to die for.


A Federal GS-9 STARTS at 48 here in DC and 50 in NY. Anything above that is supervisory.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/pdf/gs.pdf

That's not being "compensated very well". Plus, my fucking benefits come out of my pay check like everyone elses. My chick works in the private sector, and makes nearly TWICE what I do, without comparable education and experience. I'm LOSING money by working for the Feds.

[El Mudo]

They also feed from the taxpayer.


http://croydoncraft.blogspot.com/2010/01/when-you-pay-your-school-property-taxes.html

Thats great. You linked me to a blog that quotes HITLER in the title bar.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A Federal GS-9 STARTS at 48 here in DC and 50 in NY. Anything above that is supervisory.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/pdf/gs.pdf

That's not being "compensated very well". Plus, my fucking benefits come out of my pay check like everyone elses. My chick works in the private sector, and makes nearly TWICE what I do, without comparable education and experience. I'm LOSING money by working for the Feds.

you have what the private sector doesnt have. Job security

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Thats great. You linked me to a blog that quotes HITLER in the title bar.

It wasn't praising him !!

To each according to their needs, from each according their ability to pay.

That doesnt make me a Marxist.

[El Mudo]

you have what the private sector doesnt have. Job security


So that entitles me to be paid less than most people? For this mythical "job security" that I'm entitled to as part of a Union?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So that entitles me to be paid less than most people? For this mythical "job security" that I'm entitled to as part of a Union?

Do you even know what your dues are going to? I know for many unions they won't give a breakdown of what their dues are for.

[El Mudo]

Do you even know what your dues are going to? I know for many unions they won't give a breakdown of what their dues are for.

Doesn't matter to me. I can control what they use my dues for as much as I can control what my taxes go to, and what my college used my tuition money for, which is absolutely zero.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So that entitles me to be paid less than most people? For this mythical "job security" that I'm entitled to as part of a Union?

In 8 out of 10 categories Federal jobs beat the private sector.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

[El Mudo]

In 8 out of 10 categories Federal jobs beat the private sector.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm


Do you have any idea how DIFFICULT it is to get a federal job? It took me nine months.

Its not like these are pre-Chester A. Arthur days where they can just hand them out to whomever.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Do you have any idea how DIFFICULT it is to get a federal job? It took me nine months.

Its not like these are pre-Chester A. Arthur days where they can just hand them out to whomever.

You don't think nepotism exists in the federal sector? Im sure there are thousands of people whos brother in law knew someone. While your case is different there is so much of that going on.

[El Mudo]

You don't think nepotism exists in the federal sector? Im sure there are thousands of people whos brother in law knew someone. While your case is different there is so much of that going on.

I'm sure it does exist just like in the private sector, but we can't even promote people from within here. Everything goes through OPM. EVERYTHING.

Learn your Pendleton Act. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton_Civil_Service_Reform_Act)

[foodcourtdruide]

you have what the private sector doesnt have. Job security

Wouldn't you say that's more of a problem with the private sector, than the federal sector? Are you pro-less job security for American workers? That's very odd.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wouldn't you say that's more of a problem with the private sector, than the federal sector? Are you pro-less job security for American workers? That's very odd.

The private sector produces more than the public sector does. Like I said before the public sector jobs are mainly paper pushers with duplication of jobs. Are all those civilians needed at the pentagon? why have a dept of education? what energy does the energy dept produce?

[El Mudo]

Wouldn't you say that's more of a problem with the private sector, than the federal sector? Are you pro-less job security for American workers? That's very odd.

Considering the largest employer in this country is Wal Mart, it doesn't surprise me.

[El Mudo]

The private sector produces more than the public sector does. Like I said before the public sector jobs are mainly paper pushers with duplication of jobs.


The same "private sector" that works for piss money and no benefits at Wal Mart? Furthermore, i'm fairly sure the other largest employers in this country are the DOD and the Postal Service. But of course, because those things are "the government" they don't work and they're completely useless.

Are all those civilians needed at the pentagon? why have a dept of education? what energy does the energy dept produce?

The military is regulated (and run) by Civillians. The Department of Energy does things like regulate the use of all the NUCLEAR MATERIAL in this country. The Department of Education oversees the collective states education systems to do things like keep the schools desegregated and up to some sort of standard and make sure there's enough money to pay teachers. You don't think those things are important?

[foodcourtdruide]

The private sector produces more than the public sector does. Like I said before the public sector jobs are mainly paper pushers with duplication of jobs. Are all those civilians needed at the pentagon? why have a dept of education? what energy does the energy dept produce?

I'm sure there's duplication of jobs in the public sector, but I'm sure the same thing exists in the private sector. I'm sure there could be more efficiency in our government, but I don't understand these sweeping generalizations you make about federal workers. I always find it curious when people support American workers being paid less and getting treated worse.

[Sarge]

The only way property taxes will ever go down in NJ, is when we get someone with balls enough to get rid of home rule. There are 566 municipalities in NJ, the majority have there own police, fire, ambulance, and DPW. Not to mention their own school boards and municipal courts. They need to consolidate the resources of small towns, but local politicians will never do it because they will lose their power.

[El Mudo]

I'm sure there's duplication of jobs in the public sector, but I'm sure the same thing exists in the private sector. I'm sure there could be more efficiency in our government, but I don't understand these sweeping generalizations you make about federal workers. I always find it curious when people support American workers being paid less and getting treated worse.


Gotta have those low, low prices!!

[El Mudo]

Also, we've tried a few times to have unregulated business in this country.


It hasn't really worked out too well.

[JPMNICK]

The only way property taxes will ever go down in NJ, is when we get someone with balls enough to get rid of home rule. There are 566 municipalities in NJ, the majority have there own police, fire, ambulance, and DPW. Not to mention their own school boards and municipal courts. They need to consolidate the resources of small towns, but local politicians will never do it because they will lose their power.

you are 100% right. there is no fucking reason these small towns of 16,000 have full fire and police depts.

[El Mudo]

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[underdog]

in fairness, COL is much higher, but let's be honest - if you're out of college and making 37, that's a pretty good living, even for Jersey.

If you are a dual-income family, you're doing pretty well for yourself.

I'm dumbfounded at people thinking $74k for a FAMILY is doing well for yourself.

$37k a year is like $700 a week, pre-tax. That was a lot of money to me when I was 17.

[landarch]

you have what the private sector doesnt have. Job security

You're really just starting to sound jealous.

[foodcourtdruide]

I'm dumbfounded at people thinking $74k for a FAMILY is doing well for yourself.

$37k a year is like $700 a week, pre-tax. That was a lot of money to me when I was 17.

Count me in as dumbfounded. That also means both parents will be working in the family, which increases expenses in the case of a younger child.

[Tenbatsuzen]

The only way property taxes will ever go down in NJ, is when we get someone with balls enough to get rid of home rule. There are 566 municipalities in NJ, the majority have there own police, fire, ambulance, and DPW. Not to mention their own school boards and municipal courts. They need to consolidate the resources of small towns, but local politicians will never do it because they will lose their power.

Thisssssss. The ridiculous amounts of school boards is one of the things the NJEA is totally freaked out about losing. Texas and other high population states have unified school districts.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'm dumbfounded at people thinking $74k for a FAMILY is doing well for yourself.

$37k a year is like $700 a week, pre-tax. That was a lot of money to me when I was 17.

Who said both parents are going to be teachers making 37k?

And if you're teaching in North NJ, 74k in PA goes a hell of a long way.

[underdog]

Thisssssss. The ridiculous amounts of school boards is one of the things the NJEA is totally freaked out about losing. Texas and other high population states have unified school districts.

Let's not base our schooling decisions on Texas.

Who said both parents are going to be teachers making 37k?

And if you're teaching in North NJ, 74k in PA goes a hell of a long way.

But then you're living in PA. And what's your commute? Growing up, the majority of the teachers either lived in our town or one adjacent. Teachers probably shouldn't be commuting two to three hours of the day.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Let's not base our schooling decisions on Texas.

Not just texas. But a USD is something that could help the education problems in NJ immensely.



But then you're living in PA. And what's your commute? Growing up, the majority of the teachers either lived in our town or one adjacent. Teachers probably shouldn't be commuting two to three hours of the day.

Why not? Almost everyone in NJ commutes at least 30 mins to an hour each way.

I'm not saying that teachers don't work hard - they do - but they are the most vocal about how much they work when it reality, it's on par with what other people do.

And don't give me this garbage about teachers working 8 hours a day over the summer. I'm sure they put some thought into their year's plans during the summer, but don't insult my intelligence that you're spending the entirety of that time off planning.

[underdog]

Why not? Almost everyone in NJ commutes at least 30 mins to an hour each way.

I'm not saying that teachers don't work hard - they do - but they are the most vocal about how much they work when it reality, it's on par with what other people do.

And don't give me this garbage about teachers working 8 hours a day over the summer. I'm sure they put some thought into their year's plans during the summer, but don't insult my intelligence that you're spending the entirety of that time off planning.

I think teachers should be local so they can put in more time with the students. After school issues, extra teaching, etc. Teachers don't just work (usually, at least) the day that students are there.

[JPMNICK]

Not just texas. But a USD is something that could help the education problems in NJ immensely.




Why not? Almost everyone in NJ commutes at least 30 mins to an hour each way.

I'm not saying that teachers don't work hard - they do - but they are the most vocal about how much they work when it reality, it's on par with what other people do.

And don't give me this garbage about teachers working 8 hours a day over the summer. I'm sure they put some thought into their year's plans during the summer, but don't insult my intelligence that you're spending the entirety of that time off planning.


my ex was the most dillegent teacher i ever met, worked crazy hours during the year, some nights until 1am from 6am in the morning.

up until 2 weeks before school started, she pretty much did nothing all summer.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is only fed workers. Im sure state and local public sector workers owe billions too

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Tax/100000-federal-employees-owe-irs-back-taxes/story?id=10125860

[Dude!]

I'm dumbfounded at people thinking $74k for a FAMILY is doing well for yourself.

well, your perspective is off
since your food bill alone
is $74K per year

[foodcourtdruide]

This is only fed workers. Im sure state and local public sector workers owe billions too

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Tax/100000-federal-employees-owe-irs-back-taxes/story?id=10125860

So people who don't pay their taxes should lose their jobs? Can you PLEASE admit you're not a libertarian? Wow.

[Serpico1103]

So people who don't pay their taxes should lose their jobs? Can you PLEASE admit you're not a libertarian? Wow.

How about garnishing their wages.
How about focusing on the tax debtors that owe millions each, not those that may owe a thousand.

[foodcourtdruide]

How about garnishing their wages.
How about focusing on the tax debtors that owe millions each, not those that may owe a thousand.

I think they should be dragged away by people in stormtrooper outfits.

[underdog]

well, your perspective is off
since your food bill alone
is $74K per year

Booze bill would be more accurate.

[Bob Impact]

This is only fed workers. Im sure state and local public sector workers owe billions too

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Tax/100000-federal-employees-owe-irs-back-taxes/story?id=10125860

1) State and local workers are SO far away from the federal government it can barely be considered.

2) 3% of people owing back tax isn't exactly groundbreaking, shocking stuff.

[Bob Impact]

you have what the private sector doesnt have. Job security

If you've managed to survive for long enough maybe.. Talk to the union scum that put conditions in so that if a "senior" person gets laid off they can push a less senior person out of their job. I'm private sector, non union, my job security is easy, I do a good job, I keep it. Imagine having to worry not only about your performance but also whether or not people who have been there longer will get laid off and decide that they'll take your job. Wonderful job security.

[El Mudo]

1) State and local workers are SO far away from the federal government it can barely be considered.

2) 3% of people owing back tax isn't exactly groundbreaking, shocking stuff.


3% of 2.8 million is 0.00010714285714285714%. DANGER!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So people who don't pay their taxes should lose their jobs? Can you PLEASE admit you're not a libertarian? Wow.

Im for repealing the 16th ammendment so I am one.

I am FORCED to dole out income taxes or risk getting my property seized and/or jailtime.

[Jujubees2]

Im for repealing the 16th ammendment so I am one.

I am FORCED to dole out income taxes or risk getting my property seized and/or jailtime.

Yeah, is this a great country, or what?

[foodcourtdruide]

Im for repealing the 16th ammendment so I am one.

I am FORCED to dole out income taxes or risk getting my property seized and/or jailtime.

You don't think many of your views are contrary to libertarian views?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You don't think many of your views are contrary to libertarian views?

Im not religious, lLet the gays get married if they want. Abortion should be left to the states. Against the buildup in Afghanistan. Against a bio metric ID card. Repeal the patriot act. Against nationalized healthcare, Audit the fed, opposed all bailouts. Slash entitlement programs. Eliminate dept of Education, Repeal the patriot act.

[foodcourtdruide]

Im not religious, lLet the gays get married if they want. Abortion should be left to the states. Against the buildup in Afghanistan. Against a bio metric ID card. Repeal the patriot act. Against nationalized healthcare, Audit the fed, opposed all bailouts. Slash entitlement programs. Eliminate dept of Education, Repeal the patriot act.

Do libertarians have to not be religious?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Do libertarians have to not be religious?

No, however many progressives believe anyone who opposes their views are bible thumping evangelicals

[El Mudo]

Im for repealing the 16th ammendment so I am one.

I am FORCED to dole out income taxes or risk getting my property seized and/or jailtime.


Where's the government supposed to get funding from? The fucking tariff?

[Jujubees2]

Im for repealing the 16th ammendment so I am one.

I am FORCED to dole out income taxes or risk getting my property seized and/or jailtime.

Where's the government supposed to get funding from? The fucking tariff?

Bake sales

[foodcourtdruide]

No, however many progressives believe anyone who opposes their views are bible thumping evangelicals

The only people I think are bible thumping evangelicals are bible thumping evangelicals.

[foodcourtdruide]

Bake sales

That sounds like a delicious idea.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Where's the government supposed to get funding from? The fucking tariff?

I never said eliminate ALL TAXES.

Just admit that you want a nanny state European style social democracy already.

[El Mudo]

I never said eliminate ALL TAXES.

Just admit that you want a nanny state European style social democracy already.


You're basically advocating that. Most people have some sort of income that they pay taxes on. There are a vast majority of people in this country that don't own any property, and therefore, pay no property taxes. The vast majority of people in this country also don't own anything they have to pay Capital Gains taxes on, nor do they have a substantial will to draw on to where they would have to pay inheritance tax.

The gov't can't function or survive without taxing incomes to some degree. The country used to fund itself with tariffs. Can't do that any longer because (a) it would piss off all the countries we trade with, (b) we pretty much import everything and don't export anything any longer and (c) there's not enough money in it. Not only that, pretty much every conflict we've ever had internally in this country was caused by the tariff.

Where exactly did I imply that I want a "nanny state European style social democracy"? You keep making these points about wanting to decrease the size of the Federal Government when you've shown exactly no inclination or idea or knowledge of how things actually work.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're basically advocating that. Most people have some sort of income that they pay taxes on. There are a vast majority of people in this country that don't own any property, and therefore, pay no property taxes. The vast majority of people in this country also don't own anything they have to pay Capital Gains taxes on, nor do they have a substantial will to draw on to where they would have to pay inheritance tax.

The gov't can't function or survive without taxing incomes to some degree. The country used to fund itself with tariffs. Can't do that any longer because (a) it would piss off all the countries we trade with, (b) we pretty much import everything and don't export anything any longer and (c) there's not enough money in it. Not only that, pretty much every conflict we've ever had internally in this country was caused by the tariff.

Where exactly did I imply that I want a "nanny state European style social democracy"? You keep making these points about wanting to decrease the size of the Federal Government when you've shown exactly no inclination or idea or knowledge of how things actually work.


We have had a nanny state for decades. Over the years these entitlements became more bloated and new ones were piled on. What happened? an ever expanding recipient class who have no liabilities at all. Look at the "war on poverty" 45 years later and its a failure

[El Mudo]

We have had a nanny state for decades. Over the years these entitlements became more bloated and new ones were piled on. What happened? an ever expanding recipient class who have no liabilities at all. Look at the "war on poverty" 45 years later and its a failure


What "entitlements"? Welfare hasn't existed in this country since 1996. You and Anthony keep acting like there are entire populations of "welfare queens" in this country that just lounge around all day lazily and don't do anything.

Furthermore, Social Security is an entitlement program. As are food stamps, WIC, Head Start, Rural housing loans, Veteran's Pensions and things like Indian health services and free and reduced school lunches for poor kids. Can you seriously look at any of those things and explain why any of them aren't needed? Perhaps we should look at why there is an "ever expanding recipient class" in the first place instead of complaining about how much money goes into it.

[foodcourtdruide]

You're basically advocating that. Most people have some sort of income that they pay taxes on. There are a vast majority of people in this country that don't own any property, and therefore, pay no property taxes. The vast majority of people in this country also don't own anything they have to pay Capital Gains taxes on, nor do they have a substantial will to draw on to where they would have to pay inheritance tax.

The gov't can't function or survive without taxing incomes to some degree. The country used to fund itself with tariffs. Can't do that any longer because (a) it would piss off all the countries we trade with, (b) we pretty much import everything and don't export anything any longer and (c) there's not enough money in it. Not only that, pretty much every conflict we've ever had internally in this country was caused by the tariff.

Where exactly did I imply that I want a "nanny state European style social democracy"? You keep making these points about wanting to decrease the size of the Federal Government when you've shown exactly no inclination or idea or knowledge of how things actually work.

He debates against things you haven't said. Get used to it.

[TjM]

He debates against things you haven't said. Get used to it.

And if you're not down with that YOU'RE A GOD DAMN LIEberal

[Serpico1103]

I never said eliminate ALL TAXES.

Just admit that you want a nanny state European style social democracy already.
Where does your libertarian ideal exist?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What "entitlements"? Welfare hasn't existed in this country since 1996. You and Anthony keep acting like there are entire populations of "welfare queens" in this country that just lounge around all day lazily and don't do anything.

Furthermore, Social Security is an entitlement program. As are food stamps, WIC, Head Start, Rural housing loans, Veteran's Pensions and things like Indian health services and free and reduced school lunches for poor kids. Can you seriously look at any of those things and explain why any of them aren't needed? Perhaps we should look at why there is an "ever expanding recipient class" in the first place instead of complaining about how much money goes into it.


Consuela is the new Shaniqua because its the illegals who have children every 9 months now sucking off the gov't teet. Most of those programs you mentioned are pinnacles of success?

Veterans EARNED them so I have no problem with that. But rewarding people who can't keep their legs closed is Robbing from the taxpayer

Would you start calling programs "free" someone needs to pay for them

[foodcourtdruide]

Consuela is the new Shaniqua. All of those programs you mentioned are pinnacles of success?

Again, twisting the argument so you can have the debate you want. He did not say they were the pinnacle of success. He said they were needed.

[Serpico1103]

Consuela is the new Shaniqua. All of those programs you mentioned are pinnacles of success?
So hispanics and blacks are the only ones using these "entitlement" programs? Success isn't enough, it has to be the "pinnacle of success?" What government program meets your standard?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So hispanics and blacks are the only ones using these "entitlement" programs? Success isn't enough, it has to be the "pinnacle of success?" What government program meets your standard?

There are many whites on them as well but percentagewise they have the market cornered

[TjM]

Consuela is the new Shaniqua because its the illegals who have children every 9 months now sucking off the gov't teet. Most of those programs you mentioned are pinnacles of success?

Veterans EARNED them so I have no problem with that. But rewarding people who can't keep their legs closed is Robbing from the taxpayer

Would you start calling programs "free" someone needs to pay for them

I dunno. I was born here and my wife and I both work but we make just under the maximum for a RD loan so I am going to go for it. Maybe I'm just sucking of the Gov tit.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Again, twisting the argument so you can have the debate you want. He did not say they were the pinnacle of success. He said they were needed.

Let the churches and charities take care of that.

[TjM]

So hispanics and blacks are the only ones using these "entitlement" programs? Success isn't enough, it has to be the "pinnacle of success?" What government program meets your standard?

Don't you know this. They're all jobless filthy baby popping savages

[Serpico1103]

There are many whites on them as well but percentagewise they have the market cornered
Yes, whites make up a larger percentage of government assistance "leeches." Clean up your race, than move onto others.

[El Mudo]

Consuela is the new Shaniqua because its the illegals who have children every 9 months now sucking off the gov't teet. Most of those programs you mentioned are pinnacles of success?

Veterans EARNED them so I have no problem with that. But rewarding people who can't keep their legs closed is Robbing from the taxpayer

Would you start calling programs "free" someone needs to pay for them


Perhaps if we actually taught people how to use contraception in schools, the teenage pregnancy thing wouldn't be so bad?

How are entitlements "rewarding" people? These are people that are POOR. No one "chooses" to be poor. We all don't luck into sending a parody song tape into WBAB and have the DJ play it over the air, which we then parlay into a successful radio career. Now you're just getting into this bizarre Ayn Rand-ian esque social commentary that's beyond insane.

Some of the hardest working people, if not THE hardest working people in this entire country are these "illegals" you rail against. No way this country is able to function without them. And again, there is no "government teet". Welfare as you perceive it hasn't existed in this country since 1996.

Nice attempt to segue the entitlement thing into a racial thing when I also mentioned that there are Rural Housing programs that are also entitlements. Not a lot of "Shaniquas" and "Consuelas" there, eh?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yes, whites make up a larger percentage of government assistance "leeches." Clean up your race, than move onto others.


Wrong. NON WHITES make up a larger percentage. 38% are whites about 60% are non whites

[foodcourtdruide]

Let the churches and charities take care of that.

So, you want the poor to count on the charity of the wealthy and religious groups to survive?

[El Mudo]

Let the churches and charities take care of that.


Not all people are dogmatically inclined to follow churches. There are some churches in this area that won't even serve homeless people unless they attend a church service first.

How can you all of a sudden expect that amount of money that the Government uses to help people be replicated in charitable donations? There's NO WAY that would happen.

[El Mudo]

Wrong. NON WHITES make up a larger percentage. 38% are whites about 60% are non whites


Racial disparity in proportion to use of entitlement programs is a deeper issue than just percentages.

[foodcourtdruide]

Perhaps if we actually taught people how to use contraception in schools, the teenage pregnancy thing wouldn't be so bad?

How are entitlements "rewarding" people? These are people that are POOR. No one "chooses" to be poor. We all don't luck into sending a parody song tape into WBAB and have the DJ play it over the air, which we then parlay into a successful radio career. Now you're just getting into this bizarre Ayn Rand-ian esque social commentary that's beyond insane.

Some of the hardest working people, if not THE hardest working people in this entire country are these "illegals" you rail against. No way this country is able to function without them. And again, there is no "government teet". Welfare as you perceive it hasn't existed in this country since 1996.

Nice attempt to segue the entitlement thing into a racial thing when I also mentioned that there are Rural Housing programs that are also entitlements. Not a lot of "Shaniquas" and "Consuelas" there, eh?

I think you nailed it. The "charities and church" will replace programs poor people need to survive line is something I've heard from Randian's before. It's completely illogical and would put poor people at the mercy of religious groups and higher classes.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Perhaps if we actually taught people how to use contraception in schools, the teenage pregnancy thing wouldn't be so bad?

How are entitlements "rewarding" people? These are people that are POOR. No one "chooses" to be poor. We all don't luck into sending a parody song tape into WBAB and have the DJ play it over the air, which we then parlay into a successful radio career. Now you're just getting into this bizarre Ayn Rand-ian esque social commentary that's beyond insane.

Some of the hardest working people, if not THE hardest working people in this entire country are these "illegals" you rail against. No way this country is able to function without them. And again, there is no "government teet". Welfare as you perceive it hasn't existed in this country since 1996.

Nice attempt to segue the entitlement thing into a racial thing when I also mentioned that there are Rural Housing programs that are also entitlements. Not a lot of "Shaniquas" and "Consuelas" there, eh?

The corporations want cheap labor because they wont pay a fair wage for American workers. This tired old mantra of them doing jobs Americans wont do is a shell game. For example someone from Mexico making $8.00 per hour just got a 700% raise. Illegal aliens are a net drain on the economy as they pay only sales taxes. They are not taxpayers meaning they have no liability to the federal government. Whenever a jackpot baby is born thats more taxes being eaten up by them.

[El Mudo]

I think you nailed it. The "charities and church" will replace programs poor people need to survive line is something I've heard from Randian's before. It's completely illogical and would put poor people at the mercy of religious groups and higher classes.


This idea that somehow the poor "deserve what they get" and this connection of poverty to a concept of Social Darwinism is beyond me. I feel like I need to read Rand to get a sense of the theory behind this type of thinking, or at least to try and understand where they're coming from, because on the surface it just seems so evil.

BobImpact is a Rand guy...I bet he could explain it.

[Serpico1103]

Wrong. NON WHITES make up a larger percentage. 38% are whites about 60% are non whites
So, the two races are white and not white? I thought there was asian, hispanic, black, etc. I guess racism makes everything simple, black and white.

[TjM]

The corporations want cheap labor because they wont pay a fair wage for American workers. This tired old mantra of them doing jobs Americans wont do is a shell game. For example someone from Mexico making $8.00 per hour just got a 700% raise. Illegal aliens are a net drain on the economy as they pay only sales taxes. They are not taxpayers meaning they have no liability to the federal government. Whenever a jackpot baby is born thats more taxes being eaten up by them.

http://donstuff.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/circular-reasoning1.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think you nailed it. The "charities and church" will replace programs poor people need to survive line is something I've heard from Randian's before. It's completely illogical and would put poor people at the mercy of religious groups and higher classes.

Benjamin Franklin said it best. The best way to get people out of poverty is to make them feel uncomfortable in it


Many people CHOOSE to stay poor they have a mentality that if someone else is babysitting them why should they improve their lives. Poor people having more children is one of the most immoral things that can be done

I have no problems with contraceptions etc. It is now hispanic women at the top of being single mothers.

[El Mudo]

The corporations want cheap labor because they wont pay a fair wage for American workers. This tired old mantra of them doing jobs Americans wont do is a shell game. For example someone from Mexico making $8.00 per hour just got a 700% raise. Illegal aliens are a net drain on the economy as they pay only sales taxes. They are not taxpayers meaning they have no liability to the federal government. Whenever a jackpot baby is born thats more taxes being eaten up by them.


Isn't that more of a problem with the Corporations themselves than with the Government?

Hey! In order to fix that, wouldn't that require more Government oversight and regulations?

[foodcourtdruide]

This idea that somehow the poor "deserve what they get" and this connection of poverty to a concept of Social Darwinism is beyond me. I feel like I need to read Rand to get a sense of the theory behind this type of thinking, or at least to try and understand where they're coming from, because on the surface it just seems so evil.

BobImpact is a Rand guy...I bet he could explain it.

I'd love to hear from him. Everytime I talk to a Randian about what we should do with people who are terminally ill from birth or can't afford food because of disease, etc (in other words, situations where poverty is out of the individuals control) they basically dance around saying, "just let them die".

But, I'd love to hear Bob's answer to that as well.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Isn't that more of a problem with the Corporations themselves than with the Government?

Hey! In order to fix that, wouldn't that require more Government oversight and regulations?

Government and the corporations are both to blame. Spineless politicians afraid of the special interests

Yes by enforcing the laws already on the books. Workplace raids? Im all gung ho for that. Landlords and employers who hire and rent to them. Punish them severely

[Serpico1103]

Isn't that more of a problem with the Corporations themselves than with the Government?

Hey! In order to fix that, wouldn't that require more Government oversight and regulations?
He doesn't realize that libertarians are for open borders. He is a socially liberal republican embarassed out of the party by bush.

[foodcourtdruide]

Benjamin Franklin said it best. The best way to get people out of poverty is to make them feel uncomfortable in it


Many people CHOOSE to stay poor they have a mentality that if someone else is babysitting them why should they improve their lives. Poor people having more children is one of the most immoral things that can be done



And many people DON'T choose to stay poor. What do you do with those people? There are SO many situations where poverty is out of someone's control. What about a couple who has a sick child that DRAINS their life savings? That shit happens ALL the fucking time.

You must have very little contact with poor people. I don't think most poor people are comfortable with it. I don't know why you think it's so easy to be poor in America.

[El Mudo]

Benjamin Franklin said it best. The best way to get people out of poverty is to make them feel uncomfortable in it


Many people CHOOSE to stay poor they have a mentality that if someone else is babysitting them why should they improve their lives. Poor people having more children is one of the most immoral things that can be done

First of all, this:

Many people CHOOSE to stay poor they have a mentality that if someone else is babysitting them why should they improve their lives

Is one of the most INSANE things i've ever read (and you're ripping off Dolly Parton in "Coat of Many Colors"). People choose to stay poor? Really?

And, for the third time, there are no more "welfare queens". Anyone who has Gov't assistance pretty much has to prove they're working constantly. Unemployment runs out after a certain amount of time. People don't just sit around all day and dream up of ways to waste your tax dollars.

Like I said (also before), if we start training people in schools to use contraception correctly, that's going to make a lot of these teen pregnancies stop happening and make a lot of lives better. But of course, because that's some sort of evil plan that in your mind only benefits "Shaniqua" and "Consuela" instead of you, its a problem.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He doesn't realize that libertarians are for open borders. He is a socially liberal republican embarassed out of the party by bush.

Ron Paul is a libertarian and by far he was the only few during the campaign that wanted to seal the borders and kick the illegals out

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And many people DON'T choose to stay poor. What do you do with those people? There are SO many situations where poverty is out of someone's control. What about a couple who has a sick child that DRAINS their life savings? That shit happens ALL the fucking time.

You must have very little contact with poor people. I don't think most poor people are comfortable with it. I don't know why you think it's so easy to be poor in America.

Are you comparing poor people in America to a 3rd world country? Being "poor" in America means you have 2 tv's. Cable or Satellite a DVD player, a Cell phone. Many have cars and eat 3 meals a day. Sure there are the extremes and guess what? there are homeless shelters so nobody has an excuse for sleeping on a sidewalk

Poor people may not be living in a townhouse on Cent Pk West but it it sure isn't Haiti

[Serpico1103]

Oh ok. Poverty solved. World peace next.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Government is getting too big. Bush expanded it more than any President since LBJ. When does it stop ? Banning Transfats, calorie postings , no smoking in bars restaurants. Its big brother getting bigger all the time

[underdog]

Ron Paul is a libertarian and by far he was the only few during the campaign that wanted to seal the borders and kick the illegals out

Wasn't Ron Paul a republican who switched to the libertarian ticket just so he could get on the ballot?

[Serpico1103]

Wasn't Ron Paul a republican who switched to the libertarian ticket just so he could get on the ballot?

More liberal facts. Do you expect WF to read?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More liberal facts. Do you expect WF to read?

He ran as a libertarian in 88 but was on the GOP ticket in 2008 and was the most conservative fiscally speaking out of all of them.

Dems the facts!!!!

[joethebartender]

At their meeting last night, my wife's school district said that if their budget PASSES for next year they'll only have to cut 20 jobs (a tenth of the staff).

I'd hate to see how many will be unemployed if they dont pass the proposed budget.

At the present stage these kids don't even have language teachers anymore. (7th & 8th graders learn Spanish in a "video lab")... What's next? Math?

This guy is "cutting the fat" in the wrong places!

I wonder how many road contractors like Sanzari or Creamer took a hit.

Why are local cops making 100K+ to chase squirrells out of trees?

Anyone I know with any county/municiple government job is always making OT.

Don't even get me started with Xanadu or the new stadium. (the Jets still haven't sold out).

Where are the millions of $ from the lottery going? (they added 2 new mega/powerball jackpot games).

Wanna pass some bills that work? Start with instant jail time for corruption in our states political system. (jail for anything to do with the fucking up of any tax payer money). Re-examine bids for any jobs done in this state... find the pay-offs, partnerships and pocket padding!

Rant over.:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

[hammersavage]

Sparta's school district lost their ENTIRE after school programs. No sports, no clubs. 24 teachers gone, 4 VP's. This was after parents proposed to drive their kids to school to save money and various other things to help out.


That's really great for those kids. Just incredibly heartbreaking and tragic.



Oh, and I picked a good time for a career change. :wallbash:

[joethebartender]

Sparta's school district lost their ENTIRE after school programs. No sports, no clubs. 24 teachers gone, 4 VP's. This was after parents proposed to drive their kids to school to save money and various other things to help out.


That's really great for those kids. Just incredibly heartbreaking and tragic.



Oh, and I picked a good time for a career change. :wallbash:

Where's their Spartan Spirit?
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/d9e/ac6/d9eac60a-fc52-433e-8088-5f64847a3b79

[underdog]

Sparta's school district lost their ENTIRE after school programs.

http://images.quickblogcast.com/3/9/0/5/3/144289-135093/THIS____IS____SPARTA.jpg

[epo]

Gutting education?

Congrats Republicans, you've just gutted your future economy in this world market. :wacko:

[Dude!]

Gutting education?

Congrats Republicans, you've just gutted your future economy in this world market. :wacko:

yeah, like babysitting kids
after school makes us more
competitive in the world

we should permanently cut
every optional school program
and teach the kids math and science
all day long

that's the only way we'll ever
compete with the dots and chinks

i'm sure epo will miss his
home ec and band practice
but fuck him

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yeah, like babysitting kids
after school makes us more
competitive in the world

we should permanently cut
every optional school program
and teach the kids math and science
all day long

that's the only way we'll ever
compete with the dots and chinks

i'm sure epo will miss his
home ec and band practice
but fuck him

Those Asians can't belt out a good fight song like the students in some school in the Tenafly school district

[Tenbatsuzen]

Before we cry about the teachers who are losing their jobs, do you honestly think that the cream of the crop are getting axed, or shitty teachers who have tenure and nobody couldn't do shit before are now getting laid out?

Because I hate to tell you... do you know how many "good" teachers I remember from my school career that I felt actually gave a damn? Five. Out of probably 25.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Gutting education?

Congrats Republicans, you've just gutted your future economy in this world market. :wacko:

See above. I believe the fat is getting trimmed from the NJEA high hog.

[hammersavage]

Before we cry about the teachers who are losing their jobs, do you honestly think that the cream of the crop are getting axed, or shitty teachers who have tenure and nobody couldn't do shit before are now getting laid out?

Because I hate to tell you... do you know how many "good" teachers I remember from my school career that I felt actually gave a damn? Five. Out of probably 25.



I know for a fact that that's not the case and really, really good teachers are getting laid off. Maybe not administration, ill give you that. And what about all the activities being cut? That's indefensible.

[keithy_19]

Because I hate to tell you... do you know how many "good" teachers I remember from my school career that I felt actually gave a damn? Five. Out of probably 25.

I would say there was about 7-10 for me.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I know for a fact that that's not the case and really, really good teachers are getting laid off. Maybe not administration, ill give you that. And what about all the activities being cut? That's indefensible.

If the activities weren't cut, more teachers would be let go.

The activities will slowly come back. Other places have done the same as well in previous years.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Someone summed it up beautifully:

I support NJ teachers, but I don't support their union and the top-heavy administrators that is creating this cluster fark.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The WBC looks like it can use a few members


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/04/09/2010-04-09_new_jersey_teacher_unions_leave_death_threat_jo ke_on_gov_chris_christies_door.html

[Dude!]

this guy Christie is the first
politician i've come across
that is willing to do the tough
things that must be done

he almost makes me want
to move to Joisey

almost

[epo]

Someone summed it up beautifully:

I support NJ teachers, but I don't support their union and the top-heavy administrators that is creating this cluster fark.

I'll bite.

How exactly has the teacher's union caused New Jersey's economic problems?

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'll bite.

How exactly has the teacher's union caused New Jersey's economic problems?

Because they are a gigantic, bloated organization that are excelling at distorting facts.

The proposition was this - accept a pay freeze and pay 1.5 percent for health care. Many, MANY people who were worse off than teachers had a pay freeze over the past few years. And the NJEA would rather let teachers get fired then accept that deal.

As someone who's dealt with two pay freezes over the past year, and as someone who pays much, much more than 1.5 percent for health care, I can't exactly feel for the union who are using the kids and teachers as a human shield.

[epo]

Because they are a gigantic, bloated organization that are excelling at distorting facts.

The proposition was this - accept a pay freeze and pay 1.5 percent for health care. Many, MANY people who were worse off than teachers had a pay freeze over the past few years. And the NJEA would rather let teachers get fired then accept that deal.

As someone who's dealt with two pay freezes over the past year, and as someone who pays much, much more than 1.5 percent for health care, I can't exactly feel for the union who are using the kids and teachers as a human shield.

Please explain how they are a gigantic, bloated organization as you claim.

I also have a few questions:

1. Did other sectors of state government accept similar deals/contracts?
2. What was the tone of the government offer and/or was the deal negotiated in public?
3. What kind of history does NJ have with the teacher's union?

[TheGameHHH]

Before we cry about the teachers who are losing their jobs, do you honestly think that the cream of the crop are getting axed, or shitty teachers who have tenure and nobody couldn't do shit before are now getting laid out?

Because I hate to tell you... do you know how many "good" teachers I remember from my school career that I felt actually gave a damn? Five. Out of probably 25.

how about we ask them to renegotiate their contracts instead? oh no wait, the union would rather see their own fired rather than take a pay cut

[keithy_19]

how about we ask them to renegotiate their contracts instead? oh no wait, the union would rather see their own fired rather than take a pay cut

There are a lot of teachers who don't deserve the pay they get. Many teachers who taught me were getting payed a lot of money and only a few actually taught me anything.

[TheGameHHH]

There are a lot of teachers who don't deserve the pay they get. Many teachers who taught me were getting payed a lot of money and only a few actually taught me anything.

I'm not sure that's the point. I've seen good teachers, speech therapists and OTs fired because of this (and they deserve the pay they're receiving). Yet the very people they pay dues to refuse to fight for them, YAY Unions!!!!

[epo]

There are a lot of teachers who don't deserve the pay they get. Many teachers who taught me were getting payed a lot of money and only a few actually taught me anything.

Please, make more value judgments on organizations you don't understand.

[Pitdoc]

There are a lot of teachers who don't deserve the pay they get. Many teachers who taught me were getting payed a lot of money and only a few actually taught me anything.

"payed" ?

[Dude!]

"payed" ?

a shocking indictment
of an NJ education

[Tenbatsuzen]

Please explain how they are a gigantic, bloated organization as you claim.

I also have a few questions:

1. Did other sectors of state government accept similar deals/contracts?
2. What was the tone of the government offer and/or was the deal negotiated in public?
3. What kind of history does NJ have with the teacher's union?

how about we ask them to renegotiate their contracts instead? oh no wait, the union would rather see their own fired rather than take a pay cut

Brett answered the question before I could. And it's not even a pay CUT, it's a pay FREEZE and putting a small amount of money towards their health care. Every single NJ Politician was scared shitless of the NJEA, that's how fucking big they are. Christie's taking a stand.

People are complaining about cops who are making 100K, but what about the tons and tons of school administrators who are making 100 and 200 plus? It's redundant. We don't need that many school admins.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'm not sure that's the point. I've seen good teachers, speech therapists and OTs fired because of this (and they deserve the pay they're receiving). Yet the very people they pay dues to refuse to fight for them, YAY Unions!!!!

This. The NJEA would rather take a hardline and spent millions on advertising in biased anti-Christie ads than actually negotiate and/or compromise.

[epo]

Please explain how they are a gigantic, bloated organization as you claim.

I also have a few questions:

1. Did other sectors of state government accept similar deals/contracts?
2. What was the tone of the government offer and/or was the deal negotiated in public?
3. What kind of history does NJ have with the teacher's union?

how about we ask them to renegotiate their contracts instead? oh no wait, the union would rather see their own fired rather than take a pay cut

Brett answered the question before I could. And it's not even a pay CUT, it's a pay FREEZE and putting a small amount of money towards their health care. Every single NJ Politician was scared shitless of the NJEA, that's how fucking big they are. Christie's taking a stand.

People are complaining about cops who are making 100K, but what about the tons and tons of school administrators who are making 100 and 200 plus? It's redundant. We don't need that many school admins.

Sorry Matty, but that doesn't even come close to being an answer to the questions that I asked.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Sorry Matty, but that doesn't even come close to being an answer to the questions that I asked.

They are refusing to compromise, refusing to negotiate, and smearing Christie as someone who "will put your child's education at risk" because of their hardline tactics. What more do you need to know?

[Tenbatsuzen]

OK, Epo, I'll explain the situation in a nutshell:

1) NJ teachers are among the highest compensated in the nation, in terms of both salary and benefits.

2) Corzine, the previous governor, had extremely reckless fiscal policies and basically opened the wallet up to the teachers and pretty much caved to every single thing the NJEA asked of him. Why? Because the NJEA is a very powerful union and Corzine had designs on a possible presidential run before he imploded as governor.

3) Corzine's policies put a billion dollar hole in educational funding. The shortsightedness of the NJEA and the school administrators didn't see this coming, even with the recession of 2008-2009. They thought they'd get all the money they would want.

4) Christie warned the NJEA that this was coming in June of last year, before he was even elected. The NJEA had time to prepare because they knew Corzine's policies were going to end.

5) Christie gets elected, NJEA refuses to negotiate with him.

6) NJ's finances are basically in the complete shitter because of Corzine's policies. Christie is trying to fix it, and the NJEA is refusing to work with him, because, they're "putting the children first". If they were really putting the children first, they could do without their automatic pay raise (and FYI, COLA expenses did not change in the last year) and put a little towards their health care. 1.5 percent is not that much compared to the private sector.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

NY is in fiscal ruin because of these fucking greedy parasites not wanting to make a single concession. These sheltered coddled paper pushers have been sucking the life out of the NYS taxpayers

http://www.lohud.com/article/20104110365

[Tenbatsuzen]

NY is in fiscal ruin because of these fucking greedy parasites not wanting to make a single concession. These sheltered coddled paper pushers have been sucking the life out of the NYS taxpayers

http://www.lohud.com/article/20104110365

What the fuck does this have to do with 1) NJ 2) Chris Christie 3) The NJEA?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What the fuck does this have to do with 1) NJ 2) Chris Christie 3) The NJEA?

Nothing, but it just isnt NJ thats in a fiscal mess. Have you seen the economic cesspool CA has become?

All these fucking teachers unions are greedy pigs feeding out of the troughs its not just limited to the garden state

[Tenbatsuzen]

Nothing, but it just isnt NJ thats in a fiscal mess. Have you seen the economic cesspool CA has become?

All these fucking teachers unions are greedy pigs feeding out of the troughs its not just limited to the garden state

True. It's just that Christie is trying to become the first person to do something about it, by hook or by crook.

[Dan 'Hampton]

Jersey? I'm betting on crook.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Some more facts for Epo:

– Enrollment in jersey has risen by less than 3 percent while total school hiring jumped by 14 percent.

– Wage hikes have gone up 43 percent, well ahead of inflation.

– Between 2001 and 2006 total benefit costs rose by 115 percent.

– Outlays are $16,000 per student which is nearly 60 percent over the national average.

– On the eighth grade reading tests, the percentage of Jersey kids scoring at proficient or above was 42 percent.

http://blogs.app.com/politicspatrol/2010/04/11/and-yet-they-see-no-reason-to-cut/print/

[epo]

Christie appoints voucher school advocate (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/nj_gov-elect_christie_names_ne.html)

Filling two more cabinet spots, Gov.-elect Chris Christie today announced he will nominate former Republican gubernatorial candidate Bret Schundler as education commissioner and business consultant Bob Martin as leader of the state Department of Environmental Protection.

With each nomination, Christie emphasized his campaign vows to promote charter schools, combat teacher unions and protect the environment while making the state more business-friendly.

Schundler, who gained national attention in the 1990s as Republican mayor of the Democratic bastion of Jersey City, is a longtime advocate of school choice. Schundler said there’s bipartisan support for charter schools and merit pay for teachers, despite opposition from the teachers’ union, the New Jersey Education Association.

Christie publicly goes after union (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/nj_gov_chris_christie_teachers.html)

Gov. Chris Christie has publicly called leaders of the state’s largest teachers union "the bullies of State Street" and "crass union bosses." But a bit less vocally, he’s been trying out a new tactic, politeness.

Comparing NJ to other states: (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/post_151.html)

In his growing criticism of the organization, the governor has used some of the NJEA’s salary numbers to portray the union as a root of the state’s problems. But a survey of salaries of other public employee unions showed the NJEA was not alone in paying out big salaries to top officers and staff.

NJEA’s salaries and expenditures are not that different from the United Federation of Teachers in New York, which pays its president more than $268,990. According to the reports filed by the UFT, the salaries of many of its top officers range well over $100,000. New York teachers also pay more in dues to their union — $1,153 a year.

------------------------------------------
"Chris Christie sees things in an adversarial way. He needs to learn the act of governing," Wollmer said. "Our members have had it. We’re not going to be his piñata anymore. If he wants to sit down and talk with us, we’re willing to sit down. But he’s never sat down with us. He has no interest in engaging the NJEA. None."

This is the exact thing I was asking for...a little perspective. Governor Christie obviously has a mess of a budget, which can't be easy to deal with. But instead of privately negotiating with the public unions, he has publicly treated them like shit since day one and makes demands.

Should the teacher's union make concessions? I would guess so...but since he came into office he's treated them like scapegoats and hasn't stopped. And from the sounds of things, Governor Christie is going to cut State funding of education...which will shift more of the burden from state budget to local budgets, making local governments clean up the mess.

Remember that accounting trick when you get your next property tax bill.

[epo]

NY is in fiscal ruin because of these fucking greedy parasites not wanting to make a single concession. These sheltered coddled paper pushers have been sucking the life out of the NYS taxpayers

http://www.lohud.com/article/20104110365

What taxpayers should be asking about is where did the excess tax revenues from the 90s go? The states that don't have big problems now generally paid off their structural debts in the 90s instead of spending it.

Who was NY's governor in the 90's? Who was NJ's governor in the 90's? And how did they use the ample resources of the times?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Christie appoints voucher school advocate (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/nj_gov-elect_christie_names_ne.html)



Christie publicly goes after union (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/nj_gov_chris_christie_teachers.html)



Comparing NJ to other states: (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/post_151.html)



This is the exact thing I was asking for...a little perspective. Governor Christie obviously has a mess of a budget, which can't be easy to deal with. But instead of privately negotiating with the public unions, he has publicly treated them like shit since day one and makes demands.

Should the teacher's union make concessions? I would guess so...but since he came into office he's treated them like scapegoats and hasn't stopped. And from the sounds of things, Governor Christie is going to cut State funding of education...which will shift more of the burden from state budget to local budgets, making local governments clean up the mess.

Remember that accounting trick when you get your next property tax bill.

You do realize that the NJEA tried to destroy Christie's bid for Governor after he basically told them to go screw in June 2009 when he warned them that Corzine's policies weren't going to continue? He told the NJEA point blank he was not going to curry favor with them and get in bed with them or their PAC which is the error so many politicians in NJ have made in the past.

So what did the NJEA do when he rejected their overture for endorsement? Went on the complete warpath against him. Tried to paint him in the negative light as possible. Like a schoolyard bully.

Why SHOULD Christie treat the NJEA with respect when they have not even given him the same respect?

The NJEA tried to pull a very risky political stunt by attacking Christie during the election. Christie won. Now the NJEA is reaping what they sowed.

He won the Governor's seat w/o the NJEA's endorsement. He's not afraid of them.

And don't give me any bullshit about my property tax. Christie's solutions are trying to ease the burden.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Who was NJ's governor in the 90's?

Florio, who was voted out in a tax revolt, and then Whitman, who made some headway on trying to lower property taxes.

[epo]

You do realize that the NJEA tried to destroy Christie's bid for Governor after he basically told them to go screw in June 2009 when he warned them that Corzine's policies weren't going to continue? He told the NJEA point blank he was not going to curry favor with them and get in bed with them or their PAC which is the error so many politicians in NJ have made in the past.

So what did the NJEA do when he rejected their overture for endorsement? Went on the complete warpath against him. Tried to paint him in the negative light as possible. Like a schoolyard bully.

Why SHOULD Christie treat the NJEA with respect when they have not even given him the same respect?

The NJEA tried to pull a very risky political stunt by attacking Christie during the election. Christie won. Now the NJEA is reaping what they sowed.

He won the Governor's seat w/o the NJEA's endorsement. He's not afraid of them.

And don't give me any bullshit about my property tax. Christie's solutions are trying to ease the burden.

Sorry, I saw the same approach in the 90s by our Governor....Blaming the union, vouchers for schools, shifting payment to local government...and this doesn't end well for the taxpayer.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Sorry, I saw the same approach in the 90s by our Governor....Blaming the union, vouchers for schools, shifting payment to local government...and this doesn't end well for the taxpayer.

I'm not sure if you were in Wisconsin then, but there's a major, major difference between WI politics and NJ politics. It's a completely different animal.

NJ taxpayers are already getting screwed. At this point, the scorched earth approach Christie is employing is kind of needed.

[epo]

I'm not sure if you were in Wisconsin then, but there's a major, major difference between WI politics and NJ politics. It's a completely different animal.

NJ taxpayers are already getting screwed. At this point, the scorched earth approach Christie is employing is kind of needed.

I can't speak to your local politics, but I can say this:

Vouchers don't work. The City of Milwaukee has tried them in Wisconsin via permission from then Governor Thompson...and they, coupled with horrible socio-economic problems have destroyed the school system. (And actually made them more expensive).

Shifting costs from state governments to local governments is a property tax nightmare. When states collect revenues, they do so through sales/usage taxes/fees...and when local governments collect revenues its mostly via property taxes.

Just my experience on that one.

[Jujubees2]

NY is in fiscal ruin because of these fucking greedy parasites not wanting to make a single concession. These sheltered coddled paper pushers have been sucking the life out of the NYS taxpayers

http://www.lohud.com/article/20104110365

Know what I really hate? Teachers who are illegal aliens.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Know what I really hate? Teachers who are illegal aliens.

High school boys wouldn't want to fuck those teachers they are some boxy looking ugly whores

[Jujubees2]

High school boys wouldn't want to fuck those teachers they are some boxy looking ugly whores

And he's just talking about the male teachers...

[Tenbatsuzen]

So if you live in NJ and didn't vote today, you really shouldn't be posting in this thread.

The numbers are starting to roll in for the school budget votes right now.

I voted today, and the turnout was ridiculous - I saw more people in my polling place then I did when I voted for president.

[Hottub]

My town approved the budget. There is now a $44 million dollar burden to be taken care of. Of course Mr. Christie cut state funding to our district, so where do you think the deficit will be made up?

Straight up my asshole.

[TheGameHHH]

My town approved the budget. There is now a $44 million dollar burden to be taken care of. Of course Mr. Christie cut state funding to our district, so where do you think the deficit will be made up?

Straight up my asshole.

our budget got crushed, almost by a 2-1 margin. decent chance i lose my job some time in the next week.

[sailor]

Sorry, I saw the same approach in the 90s by our Governor....Blaming the union, vouchers for schools, shifting payment to local government...and this doesn't end well for the taxpayer.

one example is not a trend.

Also, why wouldn't you deal with a public union publicly?

[epo]

one example is not a trend.

Also, why wouldn't you deal with a public union publicly?

Whether a union is in a public or private sector industry doesn't matter. There is no win in negotiating in public unless all other avenues have been pursued.

[Freitag]

Whether a union is in a public or private sector industry doesn't matter. There is no win in negotiating in public unless all other avenues have been pursued.

You don't think they have? This is becoming a war of attrition.

[Freitag]

My town approved the budget. There is now a $44 million dollar burden to be taken care of. Of course Mr. Christie cut state funding to our district, so where do you think the deficit will be made up?

Straight up my asshole.

Bergen is a very "blue" area of NJ, isn't it?

I just noticed, reading the results, that Bergen and Essex seemed to be the only two places where a lot of budgets were passing.

[sailor]

Whether a union is in a public or private sector industry doesn't matter. There is no win in negotiating in public unless all other avenues have been pursued.

taxpayers don't deserve to be informed?

[epo]

You don't think they have? This is becoming a war of attrition.

From the appearances of things, before Christie came into office he was firing at the teacher's union and using them as a scapegoat. From what I can tell the tax balance is all fucked up in NJ. Here's what I mean:

New Jersey -- Tax Funding:


42% from property taxes
23% from individual taxes
6% from corporate taxes

New York -- Tax Funding:


28% from property taxes
32% from individual taxes
9% from corporate taxes

It would appear that Governor Christie should find ways to lower property taxes, while shifting the burden to progressive corporate/individual taxes. The problem is that his plan to cut revenue for local governments, he will do nothing but raise the already ridiculous property tax burden in New Jersey.

Congrats, your governor is a hack.

[Freitag]

From the appearances of things, before Christie came into office he was firing at the teacher's union and using them as a scapegoat. From what I can tell the tax balance is all fucked up in NJ. Here's what I mean:

New Jersey -- Tax Funding:


42% from property taxes
23% from individual taxes
6% from corporate taxes

New York -- Tax Funding:


28% from property taxes
32% from individual taxes
9% from corporate taxes

It would appear that Governor Christie should find ways to lower property taxes, while shifting the burden to progressive corporate/individual taxes. The problem is that his plan to cut revenue for local governments, he will do nothing but raise the already ridiculous property tax burden in New Jersey.

Congrats, your governor is a hack.

congrats, your armchair politicking has solved a problem that's been brewing for the past 20 years in Jersey.

do you seriously think it's that easy?

[epo]

congrats, your armchair politicking has solved a problem that's been brewing for the past 20 years in Jersey.

do you seriously think it's that easy?

Do you seriously think that Governor Christie destroying the relationship with the teacher's union and shifting education funding burdens to local governments is good for the State of New Jersey?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Do you seriously think that Governor Christie destroying the relationship with the teacher's union and shifting education funding burdens to local governments is good for the State of New Jersey?

It's a different approach. Nothing else has worked. I'm willing to give something new a try.

(and if the voters are any indication, a lot of people agree with me.)

[LordJezo]

There was a sense of victory at both work and the gym today. People were walking around asking each other if they "won". Almost everyone did. Budgets voted down almost across the board. There was the same kind of victory today across the state today in ways that there was depression when Obama won.

NJ did something good last night. Time to kick those unions to the curb. Our governor is the best ever.

[epo]

Team Jezo/Fridays!

Squats for all!

[Tenbatsuzen]

Team Jezo/Fridays!

Squats for all!

is this what you do when you are talking about things you don't understand?

[epo]

is this what you do when you are talking about things you don't understand?

Really? New Jersey is so fucking unique in that the economy crunched down and certain states have used slashing education as a means to "fix their budgets"?

Oh wait...its a problem that has happened throughout the nation over the last year, so much to the point that it was lead story on NBC News w/ Brian Williams this evening.

Obviously, you are a unique snowflake.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Really? New Jersey is so fucking unique in that the economy crunched down and certain states have used slashing education as a means to "fix their budgets"?

Oh wait...its a problem that has happened throughout the nation over the last year, so much to the point that it was lead story on NBC News w/ Brian Williams this evening.

Obviously, you are a unique snowflake.

I've given you statistics, I've given you facts, and how about this unique nugget: the NJEA didn't want to get involved with Race to the Top because it would involve teachers being judged on merits.

You can't make a blanket statement about education when the NJEA is a completely different animal.

Christie has offered suggestions and solutions and the NJEA refuses to even talk.

[TripleSkeet]

Washington Twp. passed its budget. Thats all I care about. Of course thats because I have 2 kids. I want to make sure the schools dont cut sports and activities for them around here. If I was single and childless I may feel differently but Im not so fuck em.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Washington Twp. passed its budget. Thats all I care about. Of course thats because I have 2 kids. I want to make sure the schools dont cut sports and activities for them around here. If I was single and childless I may feel differently but Im not so fuck em.

I want the best for my kid, but I also want to be able to stay in NJ. Something has to give.

[TripleSkeet]

I want the best for my kid, but I also want to be able to stay in NJ. Something has to give.

My situation is kind of unique as property taxes in my township are outrageous.....except in the original 2-3 developments that were here 40 years ago. Our taxes are still by no means cheap, but they are pretty much 30% - 50% lower then the rest of the property taxes of the Twp. They really dont want to outprice the people in those areas because most of them founded this area.

[Freitag]

So now the kids are walking out of school today, organized by an 18-year old college student (strike 1) who has relatives that will be affected by the cuts (strike 2).

It's hysterical that the kids are walking out in districts were the budgets were voted down. What point does that serve? If anything, they should be walking out of their parents' houses.

Someone needs a civics lesson, and fast.

[keithy_19]

So now the kids are walking out of school today, organized by an 18-year old college student (strike 1) who has relatives that will be affected by the cuts (strike 2).

It's hysterical that the kids are walking out in districts were the budgets were voted down. What point does that serve? If anything, they should be walking out of their parents' houses.

Someone needs a civics lesson, and fast.

Everytime they have one of these walkouts I shake my head. I know how all these kids think. "Awesome, now I don't have to go to algebra!'

[keithy_19]

Everytime they have one of these walkouts I shake my head. I know how all these kids think. "Awesome, now I don't have to go to algebra!'

This may not be completely true. I'm sure there are some kids in high school who care about these things. Just not the majority.

[Tenbatsuzen]

So the drug mule who organized this basically did for her own selfish reasons as... her mom and sister could lose their jobs!

And it's all the GOVERNOR'S fault! Even though their town VOTED DOWN THEIR BUDGET!

The facebook page is fucking hysterical. All lower case, shitty grammar, and bad punctuation. If you're trying to show how important education is, you fucking FAILED, mule.

[epo]

So the drug mule who organized this basically did for her own selfish reasons as... her mom and sister could lose their jobs!

And it's all the GOVERNOR'S fault! Even though their town VOTED DOWN THEIR BUDGET!

The facebook page is fucking hysterical. All lower case, shitty grammar, and bad punctuation. If you're trying to show how important education is, you fucking FAILED, mule.

The drug mule? Come on...

[Tenbatsuzen]

The drug mule? Come on...

do you understand the metaphor?

Christie called the kids who are doing the NJEA's bidding "drug mules". This chick doesn't care about NJ education, she cares about her mom and sister's jobs. That's it. She's an 18 year old student who goes to a private college in New York.

[epo]

do you understand the metaphor?

Christie called the kids who are doing the NJEA's bidding "drug mules". This chick doesn't care about NJ education, she cares about her mom and sister's jobs. That's it. She's an 18 year old student who goes to a private college in New York.

So Christie is calling kids "Drug Mules"? I don't give a fuck if the kid is wrong, a governor of a state should not lower himself to name call kids.

What a fucking scumbag.

[keithy_19]

So Christie is calling kids "Drug Mules"? I don't give a fuck if the kid is wrong, a governor of a state should not lower himself to name call kids.

What a fucking scumbag.

Adults shouldn't use kids for their own selfish desires.

I agree that Christie could have chosen a much better phrase, but adults are putting kids out there and you can't criticize it? Yeah, they're kids, but they are being used.

[epo]

Adults shouldn't use kids for their own selfish desires.

I agree that Christie could have chosen a much better phrase, but adults are putting kids out there and you can't criticize it? Yeah, they're kids, but they are being used.

Then say that "they are getting politicized"....do not call them drug mules. Insulting kids invalidates your point, whether you are right or not.

[keithy_19]

Then say that "they are getting politicized"....do not call them drug mules. Insulting kids invalidates your point, whether you are right or not.

Does using kids invalidate the other sides point?

And yes. He should have said that. But, I bet that some of those kids probably deal drugs. So, in a way, he's right.

[epo]

But, I bet that some of those kids probably deal drugs. So, in a way, he's right.

I hope that's a really bad attempt at humor.

[keithy_19]

I hope that's a really bad attempt at humor.

It was.

But kids do deal drugs.

[keithy_19]

It was.

But kids do deal drugs.

Not that they are drug mules.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I agree, drug mules is kind of wrong. The correct term should be "human shields".

BTW, the snowflake's mom makes 80k a year. Does anyone else want to talk about how underpaid teachers are?

[weekapaugjz]

I agree, drug mules is kind of wrong. The correct term should be "human shields".

BTW, the snowflake's mom makes 80k a year. Does anyone else want to talk about how underpaid teachers are?

Outside of a few NE states, yes, a lot of teachers are underpaid.

[Tenbatsuzen]

So Christie is calling kids "Drug Mules"? I don't give a fuck if the kid is wrong, a governor of a state should not lower himself to name call kids.

What a fucking scumbag.

Before you start calling people scumbags, the drug mule comment came about because one of the teachers was trying to get information via the kids if parents were voting in the school budget election, and why or why not they were voting.

Doing it under the guise of a "civics lesson".

Interesting how this would come up NOW, rather than a much bigger election back in November. You'd think with how teachers claim their lesson plans are soooo detailed...

BTW, the budget in that town? Voted down.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Outside of a few NE states, yes, a lot of teachers are underpaid.

The comment was strictly reserved for NJ teachers. As noted before, they are the highest compensated in the country.

[underdog]

The comment was strictly reserved for NJ teachers. As noted before, they are the highest compensated in the country.

You should go watch The Cartel when it comes out.

[keithy_19]

Outside of a few NE states, yes, a lot of teachers are underpaid.

I also agree with this.

I think Christie is weeding out actual teachers, and those teachers who sit around because they have tenure and phone it in.

[Tenbatsuzen]

You should go watch The Cartel when it comes out.

oooh, sounds like it's about the NJEA!

[underdog]

oooh, sounds like it's about the NJEA!

The previews of it have looked great.

[epo]

Before you start calling people scumbags, the drug mule comment came about because one of the teachers was trying to get information via the kids if parents were voting in the school budget election, and why or why not they were voting.

Doing it under the guise of a "civics lesson".

Interesting how this would come up NOW, rather than a much bigger election back in November. You'd think with how teachers claim their lesson plans are soooo detailed...

BTW, the budget in that town? Voted down.

Wouldn't be entirely possible that a teacher would tailor their election plans around the November elections in the fall semester & the April elections in the spring?

Quite frankly, if I taught Civics that's how I'd do it, as to add relevancy.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Wouldn't be entirely possible that a teacher would tailor their election plans around the November elections in the fall semester & the April elections in the spring?

Quite frankly, if I taught Civics that's how I'd do it, as to add relevancy.

the timing and the questioning to the parents was deemed suspicious, that's all.

[epo]

the timing and the questioning to the parents was deemed suspicious, that's all.

Really? I could've sworn that you claimed it was something more sinister like a "guise" without any proof what so ever.

Before you start calling people scumbags, the drug mule comment came about because one of the teachers was trying to get information via the kids if parents were voting in the school budget election, and why or why not they were voting.

Doing it under the guise of a "civics lesson".

Oh wait, you did.

[Jujubees2]

I agree, drug mules is kind of wrong. The correct term should be "human shields".

BTW, the snowflake's mom makes 80k a year. Does anyone else want to talk about how underpaid teachers are?

Just throwing a number out there is meaningless. Do you know how much education she has? Most teachers have at least a master's and have to take continuing education classes to keep their license. My son had a science teacher in junior high that had an M.D.

I’d rather see the people who are helping our children (yes, some teachers actually help their students) be compensated justly rather than the four union guys it takes to fill a pot hole.

[badmonkey]

So wait... are the children in NJ pot holes or are they drug mules?

[Furtherman]

So wait... are the children in NJ pot holes or are they drug mules?

Pot mules.

No one searches babies.


Maybe the should.

[TripleSkeet]

I also agree with this.

I think Christie is weeding out actual teachers, and those teachers who sit around because they have tenure and phone it in.

Thats actually exactly what hes trying to do.

[keithy_19]

Pot mules.

No one searches babies.


Maybe the should.

:lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I am sure this is not limited to NY

From WSJ

BY JACOB GERSHMAN
Hundreds of school districts across New York have violated state law by stockpiling billions of dollars that could have been used to lower property taxes.

The growth of these cash reserves coincides with a rapid rise in school taxes in suburban and upstate areas over the last decade. During that time, many districts drafted budgets each year based on inaccurate revenue estimates that produced a glut of surpluses.

Instead, districts have tucked away that money in an array of obscure reserve funds totaling $3.3 billion, according to a recent state estimate.

[booster11373]

I am sure this is not limited to NY

From WSJ

BY JACOB GERSHMAN
Hundreds of school districts across New York have violated state law by stockpiling billions of dollars that could have been used to lower property taxes.

The growth of these cash reserves coincides with a rapid rise in school taxes in suburban and upstate areas over the last decade. During that time, many districts drafted budgets each year based on inaccurate revenue estimates that produced a glut of surpluses.

Instead, districts have tucked away that money in an array of obscure reserve funds totaling $3.3 billion, according to a recent state estimate.

That's ridiculous. Some NYS school districts can barely afford to keep gym but are sitting on billions? where are these billions in a vault under the school?
Where is your usual link to confirm this?

[high fly]

The comment was strictly reserved for NJ teachers. As noted before, they are the highest compensated in the country.


Ever seen the parking lot?
Those rich NJ teachers are driving Lamborghinis!

[epo]

Ever seen the parking lot?
Those rich NJ teachers are driving Lamborghinis!

Teachers are obviously the "fat cats" that we should be targeting!

[Tenbatsuzen]

Teachers are obviously the "fat cats" that we should be targeting!

The teacher whose daughter started the facebook walkout makes 80K a year.

Definitely not lambos, but there are nice cars in the lots.

[epo]

The teacher whose daughter started the facebook walkout makes 80K a year.

Definitely not lambos, but there are nice cars in the lots.

Two questions:

1. 80K per year is too much? Especially for that education level?
2. A teacher can't drive a nice car?

This whole train of "teachers have too much" is exactly the type of short-sighted thinking that will gut your education system. And in a global economy based on knowledge...you might want to second guess that line of thinking.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Two questions:

1. 80K per year is too much? Especially for that education level?
2. A teacher can't drive a nice car?

This whole train of "teachers have too much" is exactly the type of short-sighted thinking that will gut your education system. And in a global economy based on knowledge...you might want to second guess that line of thinking.

We have no idea what her education level is. Given her daughter writes like garbage on her facebook page, I'm guessing she's not a PhD. My dad would have kicked the shit out of me if wrote like that.

And a teacher can drive a nice car. But the teachers can't cry poverty at the same time when we're trying to solve a budget crisis.

"I don't want to pay healthcare, but give me my 4% raise when there's been no COLA adjustment in 2010!"

[epo]

We have no idea what her education level is.

Hence the problem with your statement. We have zero context of her education level, her years of experience, the quality of her work or the extra things she may/may not do within her district.

You've given us nothing more than a bumper sticker.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Hence the problem with your statement. We have zero context of her education level, her years of experience, the quality of her work or the extra things she may/may not do within her district.

You've given us nothing more than a bumper sticker.

She's been there for 20 years, the daughter who started the protest is 18, and the daughter who worked at the school is 23.

I'm going to guess she does not have her masters.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Another question Epo - you've been consistently claiming that NJ is "gutting" the education system.

Going back to my post, on Eighth Grade reading tests, the percentage of kids rating proficient or above is at 42 percent.

Why not gut and start over, because it's obvious there's some problems there?

[epo]

Another question Epo - you've been consistently claiming that NJ is "gutting" the education system.

Going back to my post, on Eighth Grade reading tests, the percentage of kids rating proficient or above is at 42 percent.

Why not gut and start over, because it's obvious there's some problems there?

That's why you reform education, methods and standards...you don't gut it. Educational test scores are a bizarre way to judge the quality of teachers in my opinion.

There are so many factors that play into scoring...including economics/parental involvement/the intelligence of the kids, etc. I find standardized scoring to be an excuse to blame teachers, rather than find innovative solutions to improve their systems.

[Tenbatsuzen]

That's why you reform education, methods and standards...you don't gut it. Educational test scores are a bizarre way to judge the quality of teachers in my opinion.

There are so many factors that play into scoring...including economics/parental involvement/the intelligence of the kids, etc. I find standardized scoring to be an excuse to blame teachers, rather than find innovative solutions to improve their systems.


That's fair, but if you want to reform education, methods, and standards, you don't think the NJEA wouldn't throw the same shitfit? That's the primary reason why they didn't take part in Race to the Top, because they didn't want increases in salary based on merit.

[epo]

That's fair, but if you want to reform education, methods, and standards, you don't think the NJEA wouldn't throw the same shitfit? That's the primary reason why they didn't take part in Race to the Top, because they didn't want increases in salary based on merit.

I've seen plenty of unions participate in reforms/changes...the key is the approach (which I indicated awhile ago). Instead of asking for a partnership, Governor Christie made demands. Instead of asking for compensation concessions, Governor Christie made the teachers union a scapegoat. Getting a union to help is all about the approach and explaining why the course needs to be taken.

In Wisconsin we applied for the "Race to the Top" dollars as well for our MPS (Milwaukee Public School) system and it didn't fly either. The state government proposed a reform gimmick to grab the federal dollars, and the teachers union had a shitfit (and in retrospect I'm glad they did). After a few months, a partnership was made between the government and the district and we've got a really good new plan.

What was the difference in the two proposals? A partnership between the government and the teachers in the district.

Did it suck to not get those federal dollars? Absolutely. But in the end I'd rather get the approach right than get the short-term funding.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Epo - again - there is no negotiation with the NJEA. It's VERY black and white. It's either "go our way" or "we'll bitch and complain".

[underdog]

We have no idea what her education level is. Given her daughter writes like garbage on her facebook page, I'm guessing she's not a PhD. My dad would have kicked the shit out of me if wrote like that.

Your jump from having a PhD to child abuse has me confused.

[epo]

Epo - again - there is no negotiation with the NJEA. It's VERY black and white. It's either "go our way" or "we'll bitch and complain".

That was supposedly the problem with WEAC too. One problem NJ faces is that Christie used them as a political scapegoat in the election. He would be served well to set some big picture goals and turning negotiations over to a Education Secretary to work behind the scenes. The dumbest thing he did was put this fight in the papers.

[high fly]

That's why you reform education, methods and standards...you don't gut it. Educational test scores are a bizarre way to judge the quality of teachers in my opinion.

There are so many factors that play into scoring...including economics/parental involvement/the intelligence of the kids, etc. I find standardized scoring to be an excuse to blame teachers, rather than find innovative solutions to improve their systems.

Indeed.
Standardized scoring encourages teachers to teach the test and look the other way when cheating goes on.

I was fortunate to go through a government-run school system on a military base. It was an absolutely superb education, better than any of the private schools in the region. Our average SAT scores were over a thousand (this was back before they changed it) and 75% of my senior class went on to college.
They paid their teachers a lot more than the public school system, for one thing. This increased competition for those jobs so the school system could be more selective in hiring.
Once hired, those teachers never quit their jobs.

Where I am now, they have decided to skew the grading by making a 90 an A on tests. That was a B where I went. They are doing it "because everyone else is." Great lesson for the kids, huh?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Your jump from having a PhD to child abuse has me confused.

My father is a very complicated man.

[Tenbatsuzen]

That was supposedly the problem with WEAC too. One problem NJ faces is that Christie used them as a political scapegoat in the election. He would be served well to set some big picture goals and turning negotiations over to a Education Secretary to work behind the scenes. The dumbest thing he did was put this fight in the papers.

Wait, what?

When did Christie use them as a scapegoat during the election? It was the complete reverse, the NJEA teamed up with Corzine to blast Christie. Christie's ads all during the election was basically on mammograms (long story) and how he was a family man.

The end of Christie's run to Trenton left a LOT of question if he was going to win. In the end, he won by 100K votes.

Christie basically warned the NJEA in June of last year this was going to happen. Well before he was the governor. He did this because he wasn't seeking their endorsement. As soon as the NJEA got that, they turned the guns on Christie.

[epo]

Wait, what?

When did Christie use them as a scapegoat during the election? It was the complete reverse, the NJEA teamed up with Corzine to blast Christie. Christie's ads all during the election was basically on mammograms (long story) and how he was a family man.

The end of Christie's run to Trenton left a LOT of question if he was going to win. In the end, he won by 100K votes.

Christie basically warned the NJEA in June of last year this was going to happen. Well before he was the governor. He did this because he wasn't seeking their endorsement. As soon as the NJEA got that, they turned the guns on Christie.

Wait, a teacher's union backed a democrat? The NRA backed a republican? Christie needs to be the larger man and let politics not get in the way of governance.

As for Christie's campaign: (http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20091104_Christie_elected_governor_of_N_J_.html)

County Democratic machines were supplemented by about 15,000 union members, angered by Christie's promises to extract concessions from state workers, the threat to teacher unions that he would open more charter schools and give out school vouchers in failing districts, and his opposition to using only union workers on public-works projects.

To the unions that I know, thats a serious threat and something that is seen as scapegoating. I'm not shocked at all that they worked against him in the campaign.

[Recyclerz]

To bring this thread back onto my home turf, Westchester elected its own slash taxes & spending Republican last November, Rob Astorino, and we're beginning to get some blowback ourselves.

Senior Attorneys in DA's office resign due to benefits cuts (http://www.lohud.com/article/20105130378)

Again, I'm not trying to say that analyzing gov't. programs shouldn't be done regularly with pruning shears in hand. The point to my tea-partying and libertarian friends is that the "Taxes are Theft!" and "Government Spending = Waste" banners that you carry (and in some cases think in) may not be a full view of the picture.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

To bring this thread back onto my home turf, Westchester elected its own slash taxes & spending Republican last November, Rob Astorino, and we're beginning to get some blowback ourselves.

Senior Attorneys in DA's office resign due to benefits cuts (http://www.lohud.com/article/20105130378)

Again, I'm not trying to say that analyzing gov't. programs shouldn't be done regularly with pruning shears in hand. The point to my tea-partying and libertarian friends is that the "Taxes are Theft!" and "Government Spending = Waste" banners that you carry (and in some cases think in) may not be a full view of the picture.

Being a former resident of Wastechester. These sound like leftovers from Spanos good ole boys crew. While Astorino may not be perfect, hes far from it. Maybe there was someone who would have been better than him, Spano had to go.

I know property taxes are more of a local issue but W'Chester pays the highest ones in the country. I know that the more affluent towns like Scarsdale have upwards of $35K per year but towns like Port Chester at 17K a year is ridicuous

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The fat guy has a set on him. Bravo Mr Governor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0aBkt8CPA:clap:

[Freitag]

Awesome:


http://blog.nj.com/njv_kevin_manahan/2010/05/big_blunder_cost_new_jersey_te.html


And now the NJEA is now running TV commercials, attacking Christie (again), this time using cops and firemen for cover, hoping the public still likes those guys. The firefighters union, realizing the teachers union is now toxic, says it never would have approved the commercial, but the NJEA never asked.

[Freitag]

The fat guy has a set on him. Bravo Mr Governor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0aBkt8CPA:clap:

The most telling thing was this:

The teacher complains she should be rightfully compensated for her experience and education Yelling me me me, pay me.

Christie: OK, you don't have to teach.

(crowd applauds like crazy)

Teacher: Teachers do it because they love it.

Nice contradiction, and total hypocrisy. So if you do it because you love it, then you can deal with a pay freeze for a year.

[TripleSkeet]

The fat guy has a set on him. Bravo Mr Governor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0aBkt8CPA:clap:

"Unlike the United States of America, the state of New Jersey cant print money."

At first I wasnt sure about him, but I fucking love this guy.

People still use libraries? I mean I cant really believe students would use them when they can research any subject they need online. And you can buy books cheap on Amazon and Ebay. Who the fuck are still using these places except homeless guys and pedophiles trying to keep their hard drive clean?

[TripleSkeet]

The most telling thing was this:

The teacher complains she should be rightfully compensated for her experience and education Yelling me me me, pay me.

Christie: OK, you don't have to teach.

(crowd applauds like crazy)

Teacher: Teachers do it because they love it.

Nice contradiction, and total hypocrisy. So if you do it because you love it, then you can deal with a pay freeze for a year.

That dumb bitch wanted $83,000 a year to teach. Thats some balls right there.

[Freitag]

That dumb bitch wanted $83,000 a year to teach. Thats some balls right there.

She wants 83K *and* doesn't want to pay ANYTHING for health insurance.

[Section 8]

Someone on the youtube comments posted that someone researched the teacher and found out that she makes $86k/year! She already makes more than what she was asking for!

[Freitag]

Someone on the youtube comments posted that someone researched the teacher and found out that she makes $86k/year! She already makes more than what she was asking for!

*she* didn't say what she was making, it was the News 12 reporter, which is basically z-list journalism.

I have no doubt she makes high 80's though... just shows the type of entitlement we're dealing with. More power to Christie. The teachers know damn well they aren't going to make that kind of coin in the private sector.

[Barnaby Jones]

How much should teachers make?

[Tenbatsuzen]

How much should teachers make?

Not really a question of what they should make. It's more of a question why every teacher, regardless of merit, gets a raise every year.

It's a question why teachers who are making 50, 60, 70, 80 thousand dollars a year having a absolute shit fit over being asked to kick in a little towards their healthcare.