Terrors come in all sizes....

[epo]

Nothing has annoyed me more in the last 10 years of listening to self-righteous people bitch and moan about terror...then immediately claiming that terror is only used by Muslim (brown) people. Yet in today's news:

Militia members indicted on conspiracy, weapons charges (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-militia-raids30-2010mar30,0,1491379.story)

Reporting from Washington and Atlanta - Nine members of a Michigan-based anti-government militia that posted its military exercises on the Internet and allegedly plotted to kill police officers were indicted in Detroit on Monday on conspiracy and weapons charges.

The indictment said the Hutaree, which describes itself as a "Christian warrior" group, viewed all law enforcement as the enemy. It said members planned a violent act to get the attention of the police, possibly by killing an officer at a traffic stop, then attacking the funeral procession with explosives.

Federal agents said the small group of extremists had hoped to trigger a military clash with the government, but did not suggest they were part of any larger movement.

Can we finally admit that terrorists come in all sizes, colors and religions? They only really have one thing in common: they are assholes.

[Death Metal Moe]

Nothing has annoyed me more in the last 10 years of listening to self-righteous people bitch and moan about terror...then immediately claiming that terror is only used by Muslim (brown) people. Yet in today's news:

Militia members indicted on conspiracy, weapons charges (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-militia-raids30-2010mar30,0,1491379.story)



Can we finally admit that terrorists come in all sizes, colors and religions? They only really have one thing in common: they are assholes.

Normal, rational people have already admitted this.

You're not going to change the minds of ignorant people and those who are just scared into thinking the wrong thing no matter what you tell or show them.

[CurseoftheBambi]

You're not going to get anthony to admit these are terrorists...they're white.

[disneyspy]

Vanderboegh, 57, of Pinson, Ala., has played a part in the debate over the anger and frustration that is sweeping the American right.


assholes indeed

[epo]

Vanderboegh, 57, of Pinson, Ala., has played a part in the debate over the anger and frustration that is sweeping the American right.


assholes indeed

Don't run away from this Michigan. Nobody produces more white militia/terrorist types than the state of Michigan...

[disneyspy]

Don't run away from this Michigan. Nobody produces more white militia/terrorist types than the state of Michigan...

its the middle eastern part of michigan,i live in the north western part,i told you people to watch out for those middle easteners

[underdog]

Normal, rational people have already admitted this.

You're not going to change the minds of ignorant people and those who are just scared into thinking the wrong thing no matter what you tell or show them.

What Moe said.

[Death Metal Moe]

You're not going to get anthony to admit these are terrorists...they're white.

Oh he had his usual line of bullshit today.

When the story was brought up, he said he needed to do some more "investigating" into the matter. Which means 'since these are white folks I suspect the government unjustly targeted them and am waiting to find a shred of evidence anywhere that proves this so I can NOT call them terrorists.'

If a fucking dude from a country he doesn't like sneezes, terrorist.

He really does get tiring. It's just no fun to know what an entertainer is going to say before they even open their mouth.

[Furtherman]

Well said epo, these assholes are NO different than jihadists.

[mikeyboy]

Can we finally admit that terrorists come in all sizes, colors and religions? They only really have one thing in common: they are assholes.

I don't trust that fucking Verne Troyer.

[high fly]

Vanderboegh, 57, of Pinson, Ala., has played a part in the debate over the anger and frustration that is sweeping the American right.


assholes indeed

Vanderboegh said he once worked as a warehouse manager but now lives on government disability checks. He said he receives $1,300 a month because of his congestive heart failure, diabetes and hypertension.

They will get Vanderboegh off the government teat when they pry his cold dead lips off it!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032501722_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010032402500

[high fly]

Normal, rational people have already admitted this.

You're not going to change the minds of ignorant people and those who are just scared into thinking the wrong thing no matter what you tell or show them.

Indeed.
The list is quite long of terrorists and terrorist groups which are not Muslims....

[disneyspy]

I don't trust that fucking Verne Troyer.

southern michigan,again not from my area,all weve got for residents here are micheal moore and detroit red wings players families

[A.J.]

The indictment said the Hutaree, which describes itself as a "Christian warrior" group, viewed all law enforcement as the enemy. It said members planned a violent act to get the attention of the police, possibly by killing an officer at a traffic stop, then attacking the funeral procession with explosives.

Just like Jesus would have done.

[hanso]

Wouldn't surprise me if these types are behind the tea party, and the health care backlashes.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

While those anti government groups are cause for concern, there are also Eco terrorists like the Earth Liberation Front which spikes trees in the Northwest. Burn down developments and car dealerships. They are near the top domestic terrorism

[hanso]

The right christian coalition screws up things far more than any other. Without even trying.

[sailor]

i know there are many, many definitions, but isn't terrorism usually seen to be directed at civilians?

[conman823]

Wouldn't surprise me if these types are behind the tea party, and the health care backlashes.

You can be on Olbermann with that statement.

[Zorro]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n67/Chas4604/terroroftinytown.jpg

[Dude!]

i know there are many, many definitions, but isn't terrorism usually seen to be directed at civilians?

good point

the MI guys are revolutionaries
or maybe anarchists but not
terrorists

[high fly]

While those anti government groups are cause for concern, there are also Eco terrorists like the Earth Liberation Front which spikes trees in the Northwest. Burn down developments and car dealerships. They are near the top domestic terrorism

That's two out of 932.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

[moochcassidy]

there's no such thing as white terrorists.

[high fly]

i know there are many, many definitions, but isn't terrorism usually seen to be directed at civilians?

USS Cole, anyone?

[StanUpshaw]

That's two out of 932.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

Ideology is not terrorism.

[StanUpshaw]

The FBI Terror Report 2002-2005 (http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/publications/terror/terrorism2002_2005.pdf) states:
In keeping with a longstanding trend, domestic extremists carried out the majority of terrorist incidents during this period. Twenty three of the 24 recorded terrorist incidents were perpetrated by domestic terrorists. With the exception of white supremacist Sean Michael Gillespie’s firebombing of a synagogue in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, all of the domestic terrorist incidents were committed by special interest extremists active in the animal rights and environmental movements. The acts committed by these extremists typically targeted materials and facilities rather than persons. The sole international terrorist incident in the United States recorded for this period involved the attack by Hesham Hedayet, who fatally shot two people at the El Al ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport.

[Bob Impact]

i know there are many, many definitions, but isn't terrorism usually seen to be directed at civilians?

There isn't a really solid definition of what is or is not terrorism, some definitions say that says it has to be directed at civilians, others say any attempts at coersion through fear is a terrorist act.

That is literally the first time I've ever used knowledge directly from my Poli-Sci degree.

[keithy_19]

Wouldn't surprise me if these types are behind the tea party, and the health care backlashes.

:wallbash:

[high fly]

The FBI Terror Report 2002-2005 (http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/publications/terror/terrorism2002_2005.pdf) states:

Always good to make sure the dates exclude chaps like Timothy McVeigh.
Also, it leaves out terrorist plots that were disrupted by law enforcement, such as the antics of David Burgert, a KKK attempt to blow up a chemical-loaded train car in Texas that would have released a cloud of poisonous gas and another attempt by a guy to poison people with ricin.
I notice the D.C. area snipers did not make the list, either...

[PapaBear]

Always good to make sure the dates exclude chaps like Timothy McVeigh.
Also, it leaves out terrorist plots that were disrupted by law enforcement, such as the antics of David Burgert, a KKK attempt to blow up a chemical-loaded train car in Texas that would have released a cloud of poisonous gas and another attempt by a guy to poison people with ricin.
I notice the D.C. area snipers did not make the list, either...
I agree with this post with one possible exception. Since the definition of "terrorism" has been brought up, the beltway shooters don't necessarily fit. They used terror as a tool. But they didn't do it for any political or religious reasons. They did it for personal monetary gain, and (as has been recently suggested) personal revenge against an individual.

[StanUpshaw]

Always good to make sure the dates exclude chaps like Timothy McVeigh.
Also, it leaves out terrorist plots that were disrupted by law enforcement, such as the antics of David Burgert, a KKK attempt to blow up a chemical-loaded train car in Texas that would have released a cloud of poisonous gas and another attempt by a guy to poison people with ricin.
I notice the D.C. area snipers did not make the list, either...

Yes, I suppose I could go back decades and cherry pick events that fit whatever point I felt like making. Instead, I chose to do some research using the most relevant agency's most recent analysis.

The issue at hand is the modern landscape of terror in America. The fact is that the vast majority of terrorist attacks are being carried out in the name of animal and environmental ideologies (not the 00.2% that you implied before).

[PapaBear]

Yes, I suppose I could go back decades and cherry pick events that fit whatever point I felt like making. Instead, I chose to do some research using the most relevant agency's most recent analysis.

The issue at hand is the modern landscape of terror in America. The fact is that the vast majority of terrorist attacks are being carried out in the name of animal and environmental ideologies (not the 00.2% that you implied before).
So, modern means "post 9/11"?

Don't get me wrong. Environmental terrorists are still terrorists. But, the things highfly brought up are more on the level of what the Michigan people wanted to do. They wanted to kill people. Lots of people. Most environmental terrorist activity consists of acts that are extremely dangerous, but don't have the ultimate goal of killing people (even though they do have the potential for killing).

They are two totally different types of retards.

[StanUpshaw]

So, modern means "post 9/11"?

Don't get me wrong. Environmental terrorists are still terrorists. But, the things highfly brought up are more on the level of what the Michigan people wanted to do. They wanted to kill people. Lots of people. Most environmental terrorist activity consists of acts that are extremely dangerous, but don't have the ultimate goal of killing people (even though they do have the potential for killing).

They are two totally different types of retards.

I don't know what to say. Comparing the number of desired deaths in incidents that didn't occur to the number of potential deaths of incidents that did occur? That's awfully nebulous -- I'd prefer to stick to facts.

[Bob Impact]

So, modern means "post 9/11"?

Don't get me wrong. Environmental terrorists are still terrorists. But, the things highfly brought up are more on the level of what the Michigan people wanted to do. They wanted to kill people. Lots of people. Most environmental terrorist activity consists of acts that are extremely dangerous, but don't have the ultimate goal of killing people (even though they do have the potential for killing).

They are two totally different types of retards.

All I can think of when I read this post is ELF, I've been up all night and i'm far too lazy too look up specifics but I don't think they've had any fatalities, and that it was basically just blind luck that nobody has died yet. Now I agree that planning to kill people is worse than planning to burn down a building, but you have to know as a reasoning adult when you're planning that fire that there's a good chance somebody either in the building, or a firefighter could lose their life.

[Bob Impact]

All I can think of when I read this post is ELF, I've been up all night and i'm far too lazy too look up specifics but I don't think they've had any fatalities, and that it was basically just blind luck that nobody has died yet. Now I agree that planning to kill people is worse than planning to burn down a building, but you have to know as a reasoning adult when you're planning that fire that there's a good chance somebody either in the building, or a firefighter could lose their life.

I just realized that I basically rephrased your post and posted it back at you. I suck at this.

[PapaBear]

I just realized that I basically rephrased your post and posted it back at you. I suck at this.
You just totally freaked me the fuck out!:thumbup:

[Aggie]

there's no such thing as white terrorists.

and definitely not white irish terrorists.

[Zorro]

and definitely not white irish terrorists.

Freedom Fighters my friend Freedom Fighters

[high fly]

Yes, I suppose I could go back decades and cherry pick events that fit whatever point I felt like making. Instead, I chose to do some research using the most relevant agency's most recent analysis.

The issue at hand is the modern landscape of terror in America. The fact is that the vast majority of terrorist attacks are being carried out in the name of animal and environmental ideologies (not the 00.2% that you implied before).

You're right.
History does not repeat itself.

Here we have a guy in Arkansas who just pled guilty to an assassination plot against Obama; 8 arrested in Michigan, and quite a few other plots disrupted, but they don't count because they were not carried out.
You don't want to count those, do you?
* There was the Liberty 6.
* There was the Lackawanna 6.
* There was the plot to attack Fort Dix.
* There was the plot to set off a poisonous gas cloud in Texas.
* There was the plot to poison people in Nevada with ricin.
* There was the plot to start a war in Montana by David Burgert.
* There was the case recently of 5 northern Virginia residents captured in Pakistan trying to get al Qaeda training.
* There was another group in northern Virginia of about a dozen members who planned terrorist attacks in America led by that Timimi guy.
* Jose Padilla
* Iyman Farris tried to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge
* Another plot to blow up incoming airliners from London was disrupted.
* There was that Dhiren Barot guy whose cell was going to blow up the stock exchange
* James Elshafay and another guy were busted before they could bomb the NYC subway
* There was a plot in an Albany N.Y. mosque to assassinate a Pakistani diplomat
* Michael Reynolds busted for being in a plot to blow up an oil refinery
* There was that Russell Defrietas guy who led a group that was going to attack fuel storage at JFK in New York

There are other plots I could name.
But you're worried most about what?

[StanUpshaw]

You're right.
History does not repeat itself.

Here we have a guy in Arkansas who just pled guilty to an assassination plot against Obama; 8 arrested in Michigan, and quite a few other plots disrupted, but they don't count because they were not carried out.
You don't want to count those, do you?
* There was the Liberty 6.
* There was the Lackawanna 6.
* There was the plot to attack Fort Dix.
* There was the plot to set off a poisonous gas cloud in Texas.
* There was the plot to poison people in Nevada with ricin.
* There was the plot to start a war in Montana by David Burgert.
* There was the case recently of 5 northern Virginia residents captured in Pakistan trying to get al Qaeda training.
* There was another group in northern Virginia of about a dozen members who planned terrorist attacks in America led by that Timimi guy.
* Jose Padilla
* Iyman Farris tried to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge
* Another plot to blow up incoming airliners from London was disrupted.
* There was that Dhiren Barot guy whose cell was going to blow up the stock exchange
* James Elshafay and another guy were busted before they could bomb the NYC subway
* There was a plot in an Albany N.Y. mosque to assassinate a Pakistani diplomat
* Michael Reynolds busted for being in a plot to blow up an oil refinery
* There was that Russell Defrietas guy who led a group that was going to attack fuel storage at JFK in New York

There are other plots I could name.
But you're worried most about what?

I'm not worried about any of it. You disputed WF's statement about ecoterrorists and I was showing you that you were wrong.

[high fly]

I'm not worried about any of it. You disputed WF's statement about ecoterrorists and I was showing you that you were wrong.

You didn't because you only counted terrorist attacks that were carried out, thus painting a false picture of the terrorist threat in America.
I could add another half dozen to the list of disrupted plots, above.
The fact of the matter is, when you look at the complete picture and stop with the cherry-picking, the idea that those two groups cited constitute the greatest threat we face is shown to be nonsense.

[StanUpshaw]

http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/publications/terror/terrorism2002_2005.pdf

You've obviously made up your mind. But the facts are there in black and white, if anyone cares to look.

[high fly]

http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/publications/terror/terrorism2002_2005.pdf

You've obviously made up your mind. But the facts are there in black and white, if anyone cares to look.

yes, I have, after looking at a greater set of facts that more comprehensively cover the subject.

This is an example of cherry-picking one fact and excluding a large number of others in order to present a false impression. In this case, it is from where the threat of terrorism in America is greater.
Intentionally excluding plots the FBI and others disrupted as well as ignoring hundreds of violent groups allows one to come to the conclusion that eco terrorists pose a greater danger than those who sought to commit acts of biological or chemical warfare attacks on large civilian populations, or to knock 10 airliners from the sky or blow up New York subways to take a few examples.

Refusing to factor in those additional facts draws attention to one's insistence on maintaining a posture of wilfull blindness....

[epo]

White terrorist Scott Roeder was sentenced this week for murdering abortion doctor George Tiller while Tiller was in church. Roeder got a "Hard 50", meaning that he isn't eligible for parole until he's 102 years old.

Fucking terrorist asshole, rot in hell.

[Dan 'Hampton]

.

Fucking terrorist asshole, rot in hell.

Are we talking about Roman Abramovich again?

[Dan 'Hampton]

Oh he had his usual line of bullshit today.

When the story was brought up, he said he needed to do some more "investigating" into the matter. Which means 'since these are white folks I suspect the government unjustly targeted them and am waiting to find a shred of evidence anywhere that proves this so I can NOT call them terrorists.'

If a fucking dude from a country he doesn't like sneezes, terrorist.

He really does get tiring. It's just no fun to know what an entertainer is going to say before they even open their mouth.

Ant is over the top, but the next day he came back in and said yeah these guys are nuts, attacking cops and such. Just a followup.

[hanso]

He is pro militia, and watches the logo channel.

[Dan 'Hampton]

I bet those logo boys love to dress up in costumes.

[keithy_19]

White terrorist Scott Roeder was sentenced this week for murdering abortion doctor George Tiller while Tiller was in church. Roeder got a "Hard 50", meaning that he isn't eligible for parole until he's 102 years old.

Fucking terrorist asshole, rot in hell.

I agree. I do hope he rots in hell.

[hanso]

You can be on Olbermann with that statement.

:wallbash:

If you don't think those that use the first amendment to criticize politicians.
But stretch that line into threats/inciting riots. Are not mostly done by christian fundamentalists. Then you should think again.

[DJEvelEd]

Why is killing by terrorists not considered murder? In the 2001 murder stats for NYC, there was no 911 deaths included in that tally. Is that just political BS?


...at least American terrorists smell good and are clit-friendly.

[high fly]

Why is killing by terrorists not considered murder? In the 2001 murder stats for NYC, there was no 911 deaths included in that tally. Is that just political BS?

Yeah on the last.
In the courts it is considered murder and American courts have put quite a few of them behind bars for murder, and in more recent years executed Timothy McVeigh and Mir Aimal Kansi....

[StanUpshaw]

Why is killing by terrorists not considered murder? In the 2001 murder stats for NYC, there was no 911 deaths included in that tally. Is that just political BS?

From a statistical point of view, including them would make the data worthless. Crime stats are used for more than just record keeping, they're essential in determining where resources are allocated for the future. Would it make sense to pour money into more patrols in order to reduce an unrealistic murder rate?

[high fly]

Good point.

[disneyspy]

a trailer park in mid east michigan is safe today when the 5 michigan militiamen were denied bond

[jennysmurf]

a trailer park in mid east michigan is safe today when the 5 michigan militiamen were denied bond

They let you use a computer in prison? Keep us posted!

[Serpico1103]

From a statistical point of view, including them would make the data worthless. Crime stats are used for more than just record keeping, they're essential in determining where resources are allocated for the future. Would it make sense to pour money into more patrols in order to reduce an unrealistic murder rate?

Then the police commander for south manhattan could claim credit for 10000% reduction in murders in 2002.