Father of Dead Marine Ordered to Pay Fred Phelps' Legal Fees

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Sorry-- wanted to save space in the title. It's actually Westobro Church Protester's legal fees.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/29/father-of-dead-marine-ord_n_517614.html

While I support free speech, I find this sort of hatred appalling.

Please give to the fund that will help Mr. Snyder pay off this ridiculous debt. I am so sad that this court case gives "validity" to this horrendous organization.

[disneyspy]

this is sad,this seems more like a case of hate speech than free speech and making a dead son's dad pay for it just seems so wrong,i become more disallusioned with the religious right all the time

[Hottub]

This really sickens me. Who are the judges sitting in the appelate court? Are they Westboro members?
This system went terribly wrong.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/153000/thumbs/s-WESTBORO-BAPTIST-CHURCH-large.jpg

[Dude!]

this is sad,this seems more like a case of hate speech than free speech and making a dead son's dad pay for it just seems so wrong,i become more disallusioned with the religious right all the time

oh come on,
these people are not representative
of the 'religious right'
any more than pedophiles
are representatives of catholics

[disneyspy]

oh come on,
these people are not representative
of the 'religious right'
any more than pedophiles
are representatives of catholics

yes they are
and its just sad
that you people
are just so fucked
in the head

[ScottFromGA]

oh come on,
these people are not representative
of the 'religious right'
any more than pedophiles
are representatives of catholics

I hate reading your posts....are you afraid of run-on sentences or something?

[underdog]

oh come on,
these people are not representative
of the 'religious right'
any more than pedophiles
are representatives of catholics

So you're saying they are the perfect representation of the religion right?

[CountryBob]

That article sucked - it didnt really describe why he has to pay their appeal costs. What the hell happened?

[Crippler]

That article sucked - it didnt really describe why he has to pay their appeal costs. What the hell happened?

My question exactly...what the hell did the father do?

[StanUpshaw]

My question exactly...what the hell did the father do?

He tried to sue the Phelps for $5 million for "emotional distress."

When he lost*, he had to pay their legal fees.



*He initially won in federal court, but it was rightly overturned in the supreme court.

[Death Metal Moe]

This is why these pieces of shit need to be ignored. These little legal battles and small amounts they win here and their fund their activities and keep them in the news.

I wish nothing but death and sickness on them and their church, but they know how to play the legal system perfectly. I think a bunch of them are lawyers, that's not by chance.

But they prove their is no God because if there was, he'd have killed them all long ago.

[KnoxHarrington]

He tried to sue the Phelps for $5 million for "emotional distress."

When he lost*, he had to pay their legal fees.



*He initially won in federal court, but it was rightly overturned in the supreme court.

I'm torn: yeah, the Phelpses are utter and complete shit, but lawsuits like this are really harmful to the First Amendment.

And the First Amendment applies to complete shit like the Phelps family too.

That said, I'm not sure that he should be stuck with their legal bill. I'd just call the whole thing even.

[Death Metal Moe]

I'm torn: yeah, the Phelpses are utter and complete shit, but lawsuits like this are really harmful to the First Amendment.

And the First Amendment applies to complete shit like the Phelps family too.

That said, I'm not sure that he should be stuck with their legal bill. I'd just call the whole thing even.

Well then WE pay for the legal fees, and that's not fair either. We didn't ask either of these parties to use our court system. One party brought the suit against the other. Someone had to turn on the lights, keep the bathrooms clean, preside over whatever courtroom time there was if any, file paperwork, etc. Someone has to pay for that.

[CountryBob]

I guess the graveyards now should have massive walls and 100's of yards of distance from the street so a Dad can bury his son (who was serving his country) in dignity and not subject to the harrassment and ridicule that these religious mongering whores project. I don't get angry at many things out of my control - but this has lit a fuse. I firmly believe in free speech but a funeral should be off limits for harrassment. I would rip off their damn heads and then either spend my life in jail or get executed because I cant control my temper dealing with bullshit like this! Fuckin Sad!

[Death Metal Moe]

It's extremely sad and the Westboro Baptist Church should all die in a fire, even their babies, all of them. And really, really suffer. Like parents watching the skin melt off their children's fcaes kind of horror and suffering. Like bodies bursting in the heat of the fire before everyone finally loses consciousness kind of suffering.

But...

This is the shit they live for. They are TRYING to get you to hit them. They want you to assault them. They are very clever and are just waiting for you to do something they can tie you up in court for and get their names in the paper.

If you want all the great things free speech brings us you have to let this human garbage do their shtick.

[StanUpshaw]

I guess the graveyards now should have massive walls and 100's of yards of distance from the street so a Dad can bury his son (who was serving his country) in dignity and not subject to the harrassment and ridicule that these religious mongering whores project. I don't get angry at many things out of my control - but this has lit a fuse. I firmly believe in free speech but a funeral should be off limits for harrassment. I would rip off their damn heads and then either spend my life in jail or get executed because I cant control my temper dealing with bullshit like this! Fuckin Sad!

If it makes you feel any better, Snyder didn't even see the protest until it was on TV later that day.

[JimBeam]

I don't agree w/ any of what happened in this story but ...

oh come on,
these people are not representative
of the 'religious right'
any more than pedophiles
are representatives of catholics

So you're saying they are the perfect representation of the religion right?

Yes, just like every cop/fireman/lawyer/judge who's ever molested a person represents their organizations no ?

And every copy who shoves a plunger in the butt of a guy is a representative of the entire institution.

Every black person that commits a crime is represnentative of the entire race.

I see the logic now.

I imagine that 25% of the people I see in church on Sunday molest children.

Why wouldn't they right ? They believe in an organized religion.

[CountryBob]

Well that's better in his case but I have seen many other examples when they are right in the way. Maybe a group ought to start doing the same to them. Any of you aitheists or agnostics out there up for the challenge? I cant lead the attack for I have a bad temper and will get in trouble.

[Death Metal Moe]

Well that's better in his case but I have seen many other examples when they are right in the way. Maybe a group ought to start doing the same to them. Any of you aitheists or agnostics out there up for the challenge? I cant lead the attack for I have a bad temper and will get in trouble.

All us athiests and agnostics don't care about a fairytale with a man in the sky enough to enslave our lives to him, so no. We're not spearheading anything in anyone's name.

[OGC]

.... I firmly believe in free speech but a funeral should be off limits for harrassment....


I agree that the westboro baptist church people are shit, but the first amendment doesn't only apply to things we like.

DMM is right, someone has to pay for lawsuits and if anything will cut down on frivolous lawsuits, it should be making the loser pay the fees.

[CountryBob]

I agree that the westboro baptist church people are shit, but the first amendment doesn't only apply to things we like.

DMM is right, someone has to pay for lawsuits and if anything will cut down on frivolous lawsuits, it should be making the loser pay the fees.

Yeah I understand the right to free speech but some things should be sacred. What's next -this crew showing up at your wedding or your child's birth and disrupting the whole scene? I cant believe that they cant be stopped due to inticing a roit or something like that. You cant yell "BOMB" on a plane or "FIRE" in a crowded public place without facing some sort of trouble. It's bullshit and I agree with Moe - they need to disappear in a violent way.

[StanUpshaw]

Yeah I understand the right to free speech but some things should be sacred. What's next -this crew showing up at your wedding or your child's birth and disrupting the whole scene? I cant believe that they cant be stopped due to inticing a roit or something like that. You cant yell "BOMB" on a plane or "FIRE" in a crowded public place without facing some sort of trouble. It's bullshit and I agree with Moe - they need to disappear in a violent way.

You keep saying you understand free speech, then go on to make statements that are completely opposed to its exercise.

Freedom of speech means you're going to be offended. Speech is limited in situations where it would incite "imminent lawless action." If that criteria is not met, then the speech is protected. Period.

[OGC]

Yeah I understand the right to free speech but some things should be sacred. What's next -this crew showing up at your wedding or your child's birth and disrupting the whole scene? I cant believe that they cant be stopped due to inticing a roit or something like that. You cant yell "BOMB" on a plane or "FIRE" in a crowded public place without facing some sort of trouble. It's bullshit and I agree with Moe - they need to disappear in a violent way.

the problem is that someone has to draw the line for what is sacred. Who do you suggest ?

[underdog]

I don't agree w/ any of what happened in this story but ...





Yes, just like every cop/fireman/lawyer/judge who's ever molested a person represents their organizations no ?

And every copy who shoves a plunger in the butt of a guy is a representative of the entire institution.

Every black person that commits a crime is represnentative of the entire race.

I see the logic now.

I imagine that 25% of the people I see in church on Sunday molest children.

Why wouldn't they right ? They believe in an organized religion.

If you still support the catholic church after all the shit that has gone down, you support pedophilia.

[CountryBob]

Thanks for your definition on free speech. You are correct with your example. Even though I am college educated I havent spent much time remembering what free speech involves. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government. The Supreme Court requires the government to provide substantial justification for the interference with the right of free speech where it attempts to regulate the content of the speech. The Supreme Court has also recognized that the government may prohibit some speech that may cause a breach of the peace or cause violence. Fighting words -Words which would likely make the person whom they are addressed commit an act of violence. Fighting words are a category of speech that is unprotected by the First Amendment. - So , it looks like someone needs to get violent with them and their bullshit would not be protected but the violence would be another issue.

However, the current rule is that "the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action. Obscenity - The Miller test for obscenity includes the following criteria: (1) whether ‘the average person, applying contemporary community standards’ would find that the work, ‘taken as a whole,’ appeals to ‘prurient interest’ (2) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law, and (3) whether the work, ‘taken as a whole,’ lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. - I would like to argue this point. Their "God hates you and fags and military and etc.." could not fall into literary, artistic, political or scientific vale areas. How this is not obvious leaves me.

Anyway, I agree 100% that what they are doing can be protected by the first amendment but I think that there should be or already is exceptions to the admendment that should be exercised to keep these bastards away from a funeral.

[Death Metal Moe]

It's just a shitty situation. Everyone is right in here. The Westboro people are fucking cunts and should have the common decency to leave grieving families alone. They shouldn't bastardize their religion and shouldn't teach ignorance and hate to their children.

But unfortunately, they are allowed to by law.

They ride that line between legal and immoral every time they go out and they love it. They feed on pain and suffering. The funny part is that they are the most distant people I can think of from their "Christian" tenants. They really are a dangerous people. They just twist their religion's message into whatever suits them at the time.

And as Ronnie has brought up so many times on the air, any guy who's THIS fixated on "fags" and sexuality is a fucking closet cock sucker, no doubt. Not even a debate in my mind. The people who scream the loudest about how you should live are the ones with problems in their own lives and their own heads. It's nice how that works out really, because I just end up ignoring people like that once they out themselves as being complete pieces of shit.

[StanUpshaw]

If you still support the catholic church after all the shit that has gone down, you support pedophilia.

I have a problem with rape, not pedophilia. Law-abiding pedophiles should be treated with the same respect as any other person.

[Death Metal Moe]

I have a problem with rape, not pedophilia. Law-abiding pedophiles should be treated with the same respect as any other person.

While I agree with you on just the letter of the law, you know it never works out that way when emotions get involved.

And you really don't have ANY problem with pedophilia? Do you mean at all or did you really mean once they've paid their debt to society they shouldn't be overly persecuted? Because I have a problem with pedophilia.

[SatCam]

The system worked perfectly. Under current precedent the Phelp's protests were determined to be protected by the first amendment. The supreme court will be taking up the case.

The article linked in this thread, as well as some other articles I read while trying to find some details about this case, leave out very important facts about the story. I am not condoning the actions of the Phelps family but everyone deserves a fair shake, and the people reporting this story are not giving them one.

[StanUpshaw]

While I agree with you on just the letter of the law, you know it never works out that way when emotions get involved.

And you really don't have ANY problem with pedophilia? Do you mean at all or did you really mean once they've paid their debt to society they shouldn't be overly persecuted? Because I have a problem with pedophilia.

I'm distinguishing "pedophile" from "pederast".

Sexual attraction, be it heterosexual, homosexual, or any of the myriad paraphilias, is not under the control of the individual, and thus should not be a factor in one's moral judgment.

[Zorro]

Because I have a problem with pedophilia.

I think they have meetings for that

[Death Metal Moe]

I think they have meetings for that

Yea, at the swing set everyday at recess.

[StanUpshaw]

I haven't had a chance to read through any of them, but here are some scholarly papers regarding the antics of the WBC:

A Time to Mourn: Balancing the Right of Free Speech Against the Right of Privacy in Funeral Picketing (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=984055)

The Incompatibility of Free Speech and Funerals: A Grayned-Based Approach for Funeral Protest Statutes (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=980286)

Privacy and Funeral Protests (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1106363)

The Outrageous God: Emotional Distress, Tort Liability, and the Limits of Religious Advocacy (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1319369)

(follow the links, then click "One Click Download" for PDFs)

[Chigworthy]

Thanks for your definition on free speech. You are correct with your example. Even though I am college educated I havent spent much time remembering what free speech involves. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government. The Supreme Court requires the government to provide substantial justification for the interference with the right of free speech where it attempts to regulate the content of the speech. The Supreme Court has also recognized that the government may prohibit some speech that may cause a breach of the peace or cause violence. Fighting words -Words which would likely make the person whom they are addressed commit an act of violence. Fighting words are a category of speech that is unprotected by the First Amendment. - So , it looks like someone needs to get violent with them and their bullshit would not be protected but the violence would be another issue.

However, the current rule is that "the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action. Obscenity - The Miller test for obscenity includes the following criteria: (1) whether ‘the average person, applying contemporary community standards’ would find that the work, ‘taken as a whole,’ appeals to ‘prurient interest’ (2) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law, and (3) whether the work, ‘taken as a whole,’ lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. - I would like to argue this point. Their "God hates you and fags and military and etc.." could not fall into literary, artistic, political or scientific vale areas. How this is not obvious leaves me.

Anyway, I agree 100% that what they are doing can be protected by the first amendment but I think that there should be or already is exceptions to the admendment that should be exercised to keep these bastards away from a funeral.

I'd rather error on the side of less government interference and ignore these people. They just want the attention, and launching a gigantic constitutional trial to make special rules so that no one can assemble near a funeral will just pave the way for abuses, such as impromptu funerals in locations to interfere with assemblies and what not. Wouldn't you want the ability to assemble near a funeral for Fred Phelps? I doubt anyone will complain when veterans are sitting outside of his funeral with offensive signs.

As far as the father who has to pay their defense fees, he forced them to defend themselves in court and they have the ability to sue him for their cost to defend. Bottom line is that when you play with fire, yo' ass gets burned.

[Dude!]

there are all kinds of restrictions
on time, place and manner of speech
this should be one of them

[Penelope]

I must admit I've always been kind of a fan of wbc. I think they are pretty funny, but it really isn't funny when they are hurting people so much. I'm dropping Megan Phelps from my twitter for this.

[Zorro]

there are all kinds of restrictions
on time, place and manner of speech
this should be one of them

Reminds me of the guys wanting the Patriot Act after 9/11.

[Dude!]

Reminds me of the guys wanting the Patriot Act after 9/11.

that's cause you're an idiot

can you walk up to a woman
in a store and say to her 50 times
"bitch, i want to fuck you in the ass"?

no, that's harrassment
and you'd be arrested in 5 minutes

there are all kinds of speech
and not all of is protected
nor should it be

[Freakshow]

Fred Phelps ran for political office multiple times as a democrat. So, um, yeah. Religious right...


Electoral history

Democratic primary for Governor of Kansas, 1990

* Joan Finney: 81,250 (47.18%)
* John Carlin: 79,406 (46.11%)
* Fred Phelps: 11,572 (6.72%)

Democratic primary for United States Senate, Kansas 1992

* Gloria O'Dell: 111,015 (69.20%)
* Fred Phelps: 49,416 (30.80%)

Democratic primary for Governor of Kansas, 1994

* Jim Slattery: 84,389 (53.02%)
* Joan Wagnon: 42,115 (26.46%)
* James Francisco: 16,048 (10.08%)
* Leslie Kitchenmaster: 11,253 (7.07%)
* Fred Phelps: 5,349 (3.36%)

Democratic primary for Governor of Kansas, 1998

* Tom Sawyer: 88,248 (85.28%)
* Fred Phelps: 15,233 (14.72%)

[Dude!]

Fred Phelps ran for political office multiple times as a democrat. So, um, yeah. Religious right...


Electoral history

Democratic primary for Governor of Kansas, 1990

* Joan Finney: 81,250 (47.18%)
* John Carlin: 79,406 (46.11%)
* Fred Phelps: 11,572 (6.72%)

Democratic primary for United States Senate, Kansas 1992

* Gloria O'Dell: 111,015 (69.20%)
* Fred Phelps: 49,416 (30.80%)

Democratic primary for Governor of Kansas, 1994

* Jim Slattery: 84,389 (53.02%)
* Joan Wagnon: 42,115 (26.46%)
* James Francisco: 16,048 (10.08%)
* Leslie Kitchenmaster: 11,253 (7.07%)
* Fred Phelps: 5,349 (3.36%)

Democratic primary for Governor of Kansas, 1998

* Tom Sawyer: 88,248 (85.28%)
* Fred Phelps: 15,233 (14.72%)


HA HA!
that's great!
amazing what you can find
if you do a little research
instead of just spouting off
nice!

[underdog]

I think they have meetings for that

Yea, at the swing set everyday at recess.

:lol:

[keithy_19]

*He initially won in federal court, but it was rightly overturned in the supreme court.

No. He's taking the case to the supreme court. He lost in an appelate court.

[keithy_19]

If you still support the catholic church after all the shit that has gone down, you support pedophilia.

No.

I'm not a catholic but if a person is a catholic and they go to church and follow laws and find solace in their church, they do not support the individual acts of people affiliated with the church.

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Wow-- I found this piece that Louis Theroux did on the Westboro Baptist Church


Most Hated Family in America (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7735501683185935638#)


These people are insane. When Sean Hannity says you're sick and twisted then you KNOW it's bad!

[TripleSkeet]

I would rot in jail for the rest of my life before I paid those people one fucking dime.


It sucks but hopefully soon these people will just show up to the wrong funeral and a grieving family member will just lose their shit and open fire into them. Im pretty sure that would help finally teach them a lesson.

[keithy_19]

These people are insane. When Sean Hannity says you're sick and twisted then you KNOW it's bad!

Hannity is all about the troops. So, it makes sense that he would loathe these people.

[Chigworthy]

I would rot in jail for the rest of my life before I paid those people one fucking dime.


It sucks but hopefully soon these people will just show up to the wrong funeral and a grieving family member will just lose their shit and open fire into them. Im pretty sure that would help finally teach them a lesson.

Yes, they deserve to die because of what they write on poster boards. Martyring members of fringe elements always shuts them up.

[CountryBob]

I would rot in jail for the rest of my life before I paid those people one fucking dime.


It sucks but hopefully soon these people will just show up to the wrong funeral and a grieving family member will just lose their shit and open fire into them. Im pretty sure that would help finally teach them a lesson.

I'd settle for a group of Ninja assasians taking out their whole family. At least it might take awhile for another group to pick up where they would leave off.

[underdog]

No.

I'm not a catholic but if a person is a catholic and they go to church and follow laws and find solace in their church, they do not support the individual acts of people affiliated with the church.

They're not people "affiliated" with the church. They are the LEADERS of the Church.

It amazes me how much religious people can justify.

[SatCam]

that's cause you're an idiot

can you walk up to a woman
in a store and say to her 50 times
"bitch, i want to fuck you in the ass"?

no, that's harrassment
and you'd be arrested in 5 minutes

there are all kinds of speech
and not all of is protected
nor should it be


That is a terrible analogy. "bitch i want to fuck you in the ass" is obscenity which would not be covered by the first amendment. The WBC is more akin to standing down the street from the store with a sign that says "I Hate Women"



Fred Phelps ran for political office multiple times as a democrat. So, um, yeah. Religious right...


Electoral history

Democratic primary for Governor of Kansas, 1990

* Joan Finney: 81,250 (47.18%)
* John Carlin: 79,406 (46.11%)
* Fred Phelps: 11,572 (6.72%)

Democratic primary for United States Senate, Kansas 1992

* Gloria O'Dell: 111,015 (69.20%)
* Fred Phelps: 49,416 (30.80%)

Democratic primary for Governor of Kansas, 1994

* Jim Slattery: 84,389 (53.02%)
* Joan Wagnon: 42,115 (26.46%)
* James Francisco: 16,048 (10.08%)
* Leslie Kitchenmaster: 11,253 (7.07%)
* Fred Phelps: 5,349 (3.36%)

Democratic primary for Governor of Kansas, 1998

* Tom Sawyer: 88,248 (85.28%)
* Fred Phelps: 15,233 (14.72%)

He may have ran on the platform of the relgious right, but the views of his church have no similarity to the views of mainstream christian churches

[Dude!]

That is a terrible analogy. "bitch i want to fuck you in the ass" is obscenity which would not be covered by the first amendment. The WBC is more akin to standing down the street from the store with a sign that says "I Hate Women"

it wasn't an analogy dummy

it was an example of a legal limit
on speech

there are lots of them:

slander
libel
inciting to violence
harrassment
obscenity
etc etc

[CountryBob]

Wow-- I found this piece that Louis Theroux did on the Westboro Baptist Church


Most Hated Family in America (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7735501683185935638#)


These people are insane. When Sean Hannity says you're sick and twisted then you KNOW it's bad!

Thanks for the link! I am waiting for one of Shirley's children to leave the home and give the exclusive into the life at Wesboro.

[SatCam]

it wasn't an analogy dummy

it was an example of a legal limit
on speech

there are lots of them:

slander
libel
inciting to violence
harrassment
obscenity
etc etc

Right, but your "example" was basically like saying "You can't run up to someone in the street and slap the shit out of them, therefore you can't protest a funeral." Going up to someone and yelling i want to fuck you over and over is different than protesting a funeral. The supreme court has yet to decide whether their protests fall under restricted speech.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lets see if he's Olbermanns worst person in the world tonight


http://www.nationalreview.com/the-feed/3538/update-bill-oreilly-offers-pay-snyders-phelps-related-legal-costs

[TripleSkeet]

Yes, they deserve to die because of what they write on poster boards. Martyring members of fringe elements always shuts them up.

Not saying they deserve to die, but something needs to be done to these people so that they learn to stop this bullshit. I really dont believe beating some of them up will stop them. And obviously going the legal route not only doesnt work but fucks the good people even worse.

Some people can get the point with a slap on the hand, with these people you need a fucking sledgehammer.

[booster11373]

America should just ignore them, no pictures, no TV coverage, no interviews. They dont show up to these funerals to picket the dead so much as to get on some form of media in order to spread their message. They are real life internet trolls

[brettmojo]

They're always restricted to a certain area by the police... Why not set up a huge tarp/curtain around them?

[underdog]

America should just ignore them, no pictures, no TV coverage, no interviews. They dont show up to these funerals to picket the dead so much as to get on some form of media in order to spread their message. They are real life internet trolls

Most things would go away if people ignored them, but it seems impossible for people to ignore anything.

[SatCam]

They're always restricted to a certain area by the police... Why not set up a huge tarp/curtain around them?

That's what some protesters do

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/cyberlaw2005/sites/cyberlaw2005/images/Outside.jpg

[keithy_19]

They're not people "affiliated" with the church. They are the LEADERS of the Church.

It amazes me how much religious people can justify.

I really don't consider myself to be religious. I don't adhere to any church.

But it seems that you're trying to say that because of bad leaders the whole concept of catholicism is disgusting. It is not. No where in catholic doctrine does it say to molest children. The sick perversions of people cause that.

You could argue that the church's views on priests and sex lead to this behavior, but I don't buy it. Messed up people do these things. The heads of the church have not always done the right thing in regards to these cases, but you can't say that all of catholicism is bad because there are corrupt people who have positions of power.

[underdog]

I really don't consider myself to be religious. I don't adhere to any church.

But it seems that you're trying to say that because of bad leaders the whole concept of catholicism is disgusting. It is not. No where in catholic doctrine does it say to molest children. The sick perversions of people cause that.

You could argue that the church's views on priests and sex lead to this behavior, but I don't buy it. Messed up people do these things. The heads of the church have not always done the right thing in regards to these cases, but you can't say that all of catholicism is bad because there are corrupt people who have positions of power.

If a bunch of the higher ups of McDonalds started killing puppies and instead of firing them, the board of directors of McDonalds moved them to other McDonalds where they kept killing puppies and you kept eating at McDonalds, people would (rightfully) think you support puppy killing.

[Slumbag]

America should just ignore them, no pictures, no TV coverage, no interviews. They dont show up to these funerals to picket the dead so much as to get on some form of media in order to spread their message. They are real life internet trolls

Dingdingdingding!!!!
Exactly. They're hicks from Kansas talking shit about gay people. There's millions of people who say dumb shit, and I don't know about it cause no one tells me about it. The father didn't even know they were at the funeral til he heard it on TV. All of their power comes from peoples reactions.

[keithy_19]

If a bunch of the higher ups of McDonalds started killing puppies and instead of firing them, the board of directors of McDonalds moved them to other McDonalds where they kept killing puppies and you kept eating at McDonalds, people would (rightfully) think you support puppy killing.

I would want the higher ups to be removed. I wouldn't look at the company as evil as a whole.

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

That's what some protesters do

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/cyberlaw2005/sites/cyberlaw2005/images/Outside.jpg

I was going to post the same thing.

I agree that we should ignore them. The hatred that they get justifies their stance. It's just too damn hard to ignore their hatred.

[underdog]

I would want the higher ups to be removed. I wouldn't look at the company as evil as a whole.

And if they weren't removed, you'd keep shopping there anyway?

[Chigworthy]

I would want the higher ups to be removed. I wouldn't look at the company as evil as a whole.

The company is responsible for removing the higher ups, and they don't. They actually protect them. This is evil.