a question for people familiar with AA or other 12 step programs

[opie's twisted balls]

When you're going through the 12 steps and either thinking about or doing the particular task is it always in the context of when you were using? In particular step 8:
Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
What if you were always a real shithead even when you were sober, do you have to go back and list people you might have harmed then?

[KC2OSO]

can you apologize :blink:

[opie's twisted balls]

can you apologize :blink:
Thats step 9
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

[KC2OSO]

luckily, I haven't injured that many.

[Chigworthy]

I don't know diznick about 12 step programs, but I'm sure they are more successful when you customize the steps for your own life. If someone was an asshole before they were addicted, but their asshole behavior was linked with their future behavior that came out during insobriety, I imagine it should be included. If it was a separate issue, then maybe don't worry about it. On the other hand, if your in it to clean up your life, then maybe recognizing all of your shittiness would be helpful.

[KC2OSO]

...recognizing all of your shittiness would be helpful.
...what Chig said.

Thank you sir.

[PapaBear]

Since they now have "rehab" for when you call someone gay, or cheat on your wife, I guess you'd have to make amends to everyone you were an ass to your whole life. That is, if the program was for asshole rehab. I don't see how it would apply to substance abuse, though.

[KC2OSO]

Is there asshole rehab?

[Chigworthy]

Is there asshole rehab?

It's big in the gay community.

[KC2OSO]

It's big in the gay community.



No, back to the OP, what if you were an asshole when you were sober?!?!?

[opie's twisted balls]

Is there asshole rehab?
It's big in the gay community.
Chig, you're confusing AA with Four Winds.


No, back to the OP, what if you were an asshole when you were sober?!?!?
Thats kind of the crux of my question. I have the ability to be an asshole of epic proportions and more so if I'm sober. If I'm drunk I'm just a snugly bear but sober I'm a sarcastic, cutting and at times downright evil SOB.

[PapaBear]

I have the ability to be an asshole of epic proportions and more so if I'm sober. If I'm drunk I'm just a snugly bear but sober I'm a sarcastic, cutting and at times downright evil SOB.
Here's a possible scenario... Say there was someone you first met when you were drunk, and being all nice. Later, when you were sober, you did something to piss them off. You might take the approach of saying, "I'm sorry I misled you into thinking I was a nice guy, only to find out later, that that's not my true disposition".

BTW... I'm not calling you an asshole. I have no idea what kind of person you are.

[hedges]

Do you have a sponsor? These are questions you should be asking your sponsor.

[Melk]

Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
What if you were always a real shithead even when you were sober, do you have to go back and list people you might have harmed then?
If you feel it helps you, go for it. The steps are somewhat vague for a reason.

What if the wronged person would accept getting a fix as the official ammends?

[Chigworthy]

BTW... I'm not calling you an asshole. I have no idea what kind of person you are.

Do they have Lie-Anon?