by the time i get to arizona

[StanUpshaw]

Guess what strawberries used to be seasonal. All fruits and vegetables were seasonal. Meat was seasonal. Until we lowered our standards and accepted things that look like food, but wasn't quite the same thing.
We can demand certain standards for the imports. So, either people buy our products or buy imports that are paying to improve the standards in otherr countries instead of just going to the profits of a multinational corporation. Will dishes be sent overseas to be washed? Will lawns be mowed by remotely controlled mowers from india? Will houses be built in south america and then shipped to the property? Drivel! Shouldn't have replied.

Ah! Protectionism! That certainly won't lead to black markets, exploitation and violence!

You really have your head up your ass with this one.

[Serpico1103]

Ah! Protectionism! That certainly won't lead to black markets, exploitation and violence!

You really have your head up your ass with this one.
Like the lack of exploitation and violence we have today? Let companies use overseas labor, but demand the workers are treated as well as they are here. Long ago we should have focused on a global middle class. We are being pulled down to their level instead of bringing them up.
I tried your ass but it was too loose, I prefer a snugger fit.

[Chigworthy]

I'll accept the journalists view, unless presented with something to refute it. Your example of the man killing someone was horrible. That was a specific crime with a positive ID. A better analogy would have been "the robber jumped into a car with big rims and a loud radio", so the police add black male to the suspect's description because that is the likely result based on race. As an illegal immigrant in AZ is likely mexican (or looks mexican).
I never said the law was illegal. It articulates a standard, not a rule, so whatever the court has already established as the standard will be constitutional.I am merely curious (not burning flags and rioting in the street) about how it will be implemented.

Haysus Christo! I'm saying that is how race can be used to develop reasonable suspicion. When the police are aware of a suspect's race, they can use it as part of reasonable suspicion to detain someone. Not as the sole reason, but as part of the reason. The bottom line is that is cannot be used SOLELY to detain someone; there must be other identifying factors. You said my example was horrible because it was a specific crime with a positive ID. Yes, you've gotten it, you just don't realize it. That is how race can be used to detain someone, even in a case where the crime is illegal immigration.

And you're example of the suspect having big rims and a loud radio, so the police would add in the suspect's race because of a stereotype is horrible. An arrest based on that would be laughed at in court and thrown out, and the officers would be reprimanded and possibly terminated for jeopardizing their own credibility in future cases. If they saw a vehicle that matched the description, depending on the severity of the crime, they could reasonably stop that vehicle and be ok, but just assuming that the suspect was black and seeing a black guy on the street would not give them authority to detain the black person. Any evidence found pursuant to an arrest based solely on race would be considered fruits of the poisonous tree and excluded from any case.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What are your opinions about having National Guard or Active duty troops on the border. IMHO that would be real national security

[StanUpshaw]

What are your opinions about having National Guard or Active duty troops on the border. IMHO that would be real national security

Ridiculous waste of money and manpower. For once, high fly was correct (his sentiment at least, not so much the details):

Whaya gonna do when someone sees we have something like 150,000 miles of coastland and tells them immigrants about boats? Put up a wall on Daytona Beach?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ridiculous waste of money and manpower. For once, high fly was correct (his sentiment at least, not so much the details):

a Wouldnt the resources be better used here than 7000 miles away? NO threats of IEDs

b Coast guard

[Serpico1103]

Haysus Christo! I'm saying that is how race can be used to develop reasonable suspicion. When the police are aware of a suspect's race, they can use it as part of reasonable suspicion to detain someone. Not as the sole reason, but as part of the reason. The bottom line is that is cannot be used SOLELY to detain someone; there must be other identifying factors. You said my example was horrible because it was a specific crime with a positive ID. Yes, you've gotten it, you just don't realize it. That is how race can be used to detain someone, even in a case where the crime is illegal immigration.

And you're example of the suspect having big rims and a loud radio, so the police would add in the suspect's race because of a stereotype is horrible. An arrest based on that would be laughed at in court and thrown out, and the officers would be reprimanded and possibly terminated for jeopardizing their own credibility in future cases. If they saw a vehicle that matched the description, depending on the severity of the crime, they could reasonably stop that vehicle and be ok, but just assuming that the suspect was black and seeing a black guy on the street would not give them authority to detain the black person. Any evidence found pursuant to an arrest based solely on race would be considered fruits of the poisonous tree and excluded from any case.

We agree, you just want to keep arguing.
I have, from the beginning, said the law is constitutional. I have just wondered what factors other than race will be used?

You said at the beginning of the thread that appearance could not be used as a factor, then you changed it to appearance can not be the sole factor. What constitutes appearance? Race, sex, age, clothes?
Any how. As I have said before, if the local police were resistant to get involved before, I don't know if this will change much other than get publicity.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As far as the drug situation. Just fucking legalize marijuana

[Barnaby Jones]

a Wouldnt the resources be better used here than 7000 miles away? NO threats of IEDs

b Coast guard

None of that is free, and we don't get any return!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lets have a boycott. 2500 miles from AZ



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/04/28/2010-04-28_ariz_law_leads_to_misfired_ire.html

[Chigworthy]

We agree, you just want to keep arguing.
I have, from the beginning, said the law is constitutional. I have just wondered what factors other than race will be used?

You said at the beginning of the thread that appearance could not be used as a factor, then you changed it to appearance can not be the sole factor. What constitutes appearance? Race, sex, age, clothes?
Any how. As I have said before, if the local police were resistant to get involved before, I don't know if this will change much other than get publicity.


Stop twisting my words, quote where I said it could not be used at all, which is what you're implying I did before I "changed my story". You know what I meant.

[Serpico1103]

Wrong:
Nowhere in the law does it allow law enforcement to articulate a reasonable suspicion of illegal immigration based on(left out solely) appearance. That is not the purpose of the law, although it makes for great news stories to portray it as such.


As a result of a contact like this, an officer may develop a reasonable suspicion that the person is an illegal. Nowhere in the law does it allow officers to profile someone based on appearance(left out solely) and detain them because they appear illegal. This would violate the 4th amendment.

See above, nowhere in the law does it authorize officers to stop someone for the crime of illegal immigration based upon their appearance(left out solely). A law that would authorize this would instantly cease to exist, since it would be constitutionally unlawful, and a legal paradox vortex would occur.

A lawful contact can be any contact that does not violate the law, mainly the 4th amendment. An officer can begin talking to someone, but they are completely free to leave unless the officer has a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed, at which point they have the option to detain the person. It would be unlawful for an officer to detain someone because the officer believed that they were an illegal immigrant based solely(there it is) on the person's appearance.

That took more effort than it was worth.
If you meant it as "solely" along, than I can only apologize for the not interpreting the ambiguity properly.

[foodcourtdruide]

What are your opinions about having National Guard or Active duty troops on the border. IMHO that would be real national security

I don't think the national guard should do it, however I think jobs like this would be awesome for returning veterans.

[Ogre]

As far as the drug situation. Just fucking legalize marijuana

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Syd]

What are your opinions about having National Guard or Active duty troops on the border. IMHO that would be real national security

You can go hog wild with police or other law enforcement but I'm highly against militarizing the border. Sets a bad precedent and impugns America's "leader of the free world" status.

[Bob Impact]

Like the lack of exploitation and violence we have today? Let companies use overseas labor, but demand the workers are treated as well as they are here. Long ago we should have focused on a global middle class. We are being pulled down to their level instead of bringing them up.

As someone who works for a gigantic corporation, I can tell you that at least in my company these types of checks are done on every supplier.

[Serpico1103]

As someone who works for a gigantic corporation, I can tell you that at least in my company these types of checks are done on every supplier.

I am sure many companies behave humanely, but economic pressures must be balanced. Shareholders want profits, regardless of morality. Competitors will force down wages and working conditions. And, if you can hide it on the other side of the globe, why not?

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/290590

Microsoft supplier violating every single labor in China.
Couldn't adhere to one law?

[Serpico1103]

Stop twisting my words, quote where I said it could not be used at all, which is what you're implying I did before I "changed my story". You know what I meant.
Nothing? Won't even accept my apology?

[high fly]

What are your opinions about having National Guard or Active duty troops on the border. IMHO that would be real national security


Really?
What do you think that would do for military recruiting, telling them they would be stranded regularly out in the middle of nowhere looking for illegals who they will capture and charge with a misdemeanor?
You got 1,800 miles of border with mexico, how you gonna get thoise troops strewn across that distance, as well as feed and house them?
There's thousands of more miles of border with Canada, and when them immigrants find out about "boats" you've got 150,000 more miles of coastland to defend.

Oh, and the military you so cavalierly want to put on the border is largely worn out, with few, if any divisions right now fully manned, equipped and trained for deployment.

That 12-foot border fence only helps the 12-foot ladder manufacturers.


The reason those people are coming here and will continue to come, regardless of who you put on the border is because things are so much better than where they come from.
If you would apply conservative economics you would see this is a market taking thousands and thousands of decisions each day and no one really thinks about the government when they decide, and will not no matter what you do.


I always like an issue like this, because it highlights the phoniness of those conservatives who like to pretend they are concerned with getting back to the way the Founding Fathers did things and intended this nation to do.
The Founding Fathers welcomed immigrants, even those speaking other languages. Unlike the poser conservatives of today, the Founding fathers saw them as an asset, not a problem and we went nearly 100 years before we had immigration-limiting laws.
This issue shows how far we have gotten from the standards this nation was founded upon, and those who claim to want to get back to those standards are the first to abandon them.

We should give all the illegals amnesty and make citizenship much easier. We need an increase in taxpayers anyway to pay taxes for stuff like deficit reduction and Social Security.

[StanUpshaw]

Again with the 150,000 miles. You realize that's over half the distance from here to the moon?

[tanless1]

Never realized what a defeatist you are high fly. 1) a fence could be referd to as "defensible border". Doesn't have to be 12 foot, all though I would prefer a a dble 12 fence if it to remain predominatly under the jurisdiction understaffed border patrol (it would be easier and safer for them to secure) . If we decide to rotate our military down there....3 strand barbd wire. 2) ever been out to fort irwin , nellis ? It would be a very good area to train/exercise. I'm sure it would be approached much diferent than opperations in a hostile country.

Your use of "cavalerly" seething with contempt. Your use of " abandonment" dissengenious. You know the issue we speak of is illegal immigration.....has nothing to do with legal immigration. So suck it up and participate in this conversation honestly

[high fly]

Again with the 150,000 miles. You realize that's over half the distance from here to the moon?

Yeah, man.
I sail the Chesapeake Bay and you oughta see how much actual shoreline there is.
It's not long straight lines or anything.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Really?
What do you think that would do for military recruiting, telling them they would be stranded regularly out in the middle of nowhere looking for illegals who they will capture and charge with a misdemeanor?
You got 1,800 miles of border with mexico, how you gonna get thoise troops strewn across that distance, as well as feed and house them?
There's thousands of more miles of border with Canada, and when them immigrants find out about "boats" you've got 150,000 more miles of coastland to defend.

Oh, and the military you so cavalierly want to put on the border is largely worn out, with few, if any divisions right now fully manned, equipped and trained for deployment.

That 12-foot border fence only helps the 12-foot ladder manufacturers.


The reason those people are coming here and will continue to come, regardless of who you put on the border is because things are so much better than where they come from.
If you would apply conservative economics you would see this is a market taking thousands and thousands of decisions each day and no one really thinks about the government when they decide, and will not no matter what you do.


I always like an issue like this, because it highlights the phoniness of those conservatives who like to pretend they are concerned with getting back to the way the Founding Fathers did things and intended this nation to do.
The Founding Fathers welcomed immigrants, even those speaking other languages. Unlike the poser conservatives of today, the Founding fathers saw them as an asset, not a problem and we went nearly 100 years before we had immigration-limiting laws.
This issue shows how far we have gotten from the standards this nation was founded upon, and those who claim to want to get back to those standards are the first to abandon them.

We should give all the illegals amnesty and make citizenship much easier. We need an increase in taxpayers anyway to pay taxes for stuff like deficit reduction and Social Security.


Yes really!!! What's better? to have them go 7000 miles away ? How many illegals will be taking boats to the shores? Like there will be waves of Illegals storming the beaches of California. Fuck Amnesty It was tried already and as a result we have the shitstorm that has spiraled out of control


You want to dumb down citizenship. Just because Mexicos back door is the United States doesnt give them carte blanche to come barreling over the border. Our immigration system is designed to have people knock on the door not kick the fucking door in.

Quit with the we don't welcome anyone into this country. Thats being dishonest. This country allows a shitload of people here legally. Enough with the pity for people here illegally. They cut in front of the line and you want to reward them. Thats a big fuck you to the millions who came here legally.

Also this notion that everyone of hispanic origin automatically supports amnesty and people coming here illegally. Its the mass media tugging at the heartstrings trying to keep the story going.

[high fly]

Never realized what a defeatist you are high fly. 1) a fence could be referd to as "defensible border". Doesn't have to be 12 foot, all though I would prefer a a dble 12 fence if it to remain predominatly under the jurisdiction understaffed border patrol (it would be easier and safer for them to secure) . If we decide to rotate our military down there....3 strand barbd wire. 2) ever been out to fort irwin , nellis ? It would be a very good area to train/exercise. I'm sure it would be approached much diferent than opperations in a hostile country.

Your use of "cavalerly" seething with contempt. Your use of " abandonment" dissengenious. You know the issue we speak of is illegal immigration.....has nothing to do with legal immigration. So suck it up and participate in this conversation honestly

How many would stay in the military if they had to come back from Afghanistan and be plopped out in the middle of the Arizona desert for several more ,months of camping out, eating MREs and battling scorpions so they could make misdemeanor arrests?
They could go home on Christmas.
Some of them, anyway.

How many troops do you think it would take to "defend" that 1,800-mile border with Mexico?
How many more to defend the beaches along the Gulf of Mexico once some snitch tells them about "boats"?

We'd be better off spending money on things like schools, roads, water treatment plants and other infrastructure in Central America, while insisting this bounteous foreign aid must be accompanied by them raising minimum wages, improving working conditions, allowing workers to unionize and cleaning the place up in general.

They will continue to risk their lives coming here until they can have a better life where they live. That's why they come anyway.

Fort irwin and Nellis are not able to support the numbers of troops that would have to be in the field along that 1,800 mile border, much less the coast of the Gulf of Mexico and the California coast to boot. it's not very honest to pretend otherwise.
You are the one who needs to do the sucking up.

[StanUpshaw]

Yeah, man.
I sail the Chesapeake Bay and you oughta see how much actual shoreline there is.
It's not long straight lines or anything.

But where are you getting your numbers? I'm finding 12,383 miles as the total coastline of the United States including AK & HI and 4,993 miles without.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Do we not have a coast guard ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

But where are you getting your numbers? I'm finding 12,383 miles as the total coastline of the United States including AK & HI and 4,993 miles without.

Watch out for illegals coming by Los Angeles class submarines

[StanUpshaw]

Do we not have a coast guard ?

We also have border patrol. Why would the coast guard be any more successful?

[PapaBear]

They are referred to as "immigrants" in this story, but I'd call them "smugglers". Either way, it's not going to help the current debate much.

Arizona deputy shot; illegal immigrants suspected (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100501/ap_on_re_us/us_arizona_deputy_shot)

[tanless1]

Fort irwin and nellis are examples of training areas , very similar to the "border region" ..... the example expresses the similarity, I'm very surprised you were unable to extrapilate that.

...as for better lives, I've addressed these issues earlier in the thread, no need to retype using a phone.

[tanless1]

.....mre's ? Are you kidding me ? Just mosey to the chow hall....why you looking to make this so difficult ? So unpleasent ?

This would be simple , cost effective....and by fixing our borders, we will be in a better position to redress and then increase immigration, aaaaannnnnd talk about those other gifts you mentiond

[tanless1]

How many ? Under 10k - closer to 5k.
Cycle them down for 2mo of "training" and then home.
Troops would love it. Flying, jeeping,manuvers....and they'd be fullfilled,protecting their country is exactly what they signed up for.
Would also do a lot for the local economies.
.....we really do have 2 very different perspectives

[Syd]

good thing this is going to be blamed on the true cause: illegal immigration

*yells about small government, has no problemo giving whatever cash possible to the war on drugs*

[tanless1]

Not sure who your foot'n,syd. I've written plenty regarding the war on drugs...as many of us have. How we as a nation would benifit economiclly and socially from the cesation of this exercise in futility that oddly resembls the experience of prohobition.......odd to note that the progressive movement pushed prohobition,too.

[Barnaby Jones]

They are referred to as "immigrants" in this story, but I'd call them "smugglers". Either way, it's not going to help the current debate much.

Arizona deputy shot; illegal immigrants suspected (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100501/ap_on_re_us/us_arizona_deputy_shot)

Thank goodness this poor man was shot over something as dangerous as marijuana and not anything frivolous!

[Tenbatsuzen]

Thank goodness this poor man was shot over something as dangerous as marijuana and not anything frivolous!

Are you a fucking retard? He's a fucking cop! He's supposed to arrest people, and they pulled out ASSAULT RIFLES. This wasn't Cheech and Chong.

[Tenbatsuzen]

So now people are upset because Arizona discontinued Ethnic Studies classes and getting rid of teachers who have "heavy accents".

First, applause.

Secondly, any one who calls this racist, I say fuck you. My wife had to pull out of a calculus class and I got a D in seventh grade Science because we both couldn't understand the teacher due to accents. I was too afraid in seventh grade to speak my mind to my parents about my simple inability to understand the teacher lest I be branded a racist.

[epo]

So now people are upset because Arizona discontinued Ethnic Studies classes and getting rid of teachers who have "heavy accents".

First, applause.

Secondly, any one who calls this racist, I say fuck you. My wife had to pull out of a calculus class and I got a D in seventh grade Science because we both couldn't understand the teacher due to accents. I was too afraid in seventh grade to speak my mind to my parents about my simple inability to understand the teacher lest I be branded a racist.

I don't think its racist, but I do think its backwards thinking.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I don't think its racist, but I do think its backwards thinking.

The primary goal of teaching is communicating knowledge to students.

If you have a heavy accent and can't be understood, you fail the primary goal.

Considering how much the schools push equality and the evils of racism, I'm sure there are plenty of kids who are in the same boat, that they can't understand the simple things the teachers are saying, but don't want to speak up because they don't want to get in trouble.

Now, as for Ethnic Studies, the complaint there was that it was promoting separatism. I could see that.

[epo]

The primary goal of teaching is communicating knowledge to students.

If you have a heavy accent and can't be understood, you fail the primary goal.

Considering how much the schools push equality and the evils of racism, I'm sure there are plenty of kids who are in the same boat, that they can't understand the simple things the teachers are saying, but don't want to speak up because they don't want to get in trouble.

Now, as for Ethnic Studies, the complaint there was that it was promoting separatism. I could see that.

I've had plenty of teachers/professors in my day that had heavy accents who were excellent teachers, and a few teachers/professors who spoke wonderful english who couldn't teach worth a damn.

And your schools should push equality, teach ethnic studies and show you the evils of racism/etc. Well, unless you are in Alabama.

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[Barnaby Jones]

Are you a fucking retard? He's a fucking cop! He's supposed to arrest people, and they pulled out ASSAULT RIFLES. This wasn't Cheech and Chong.

I was making a sarcastic statement about how stupid it is for people to have to be exchanging gunfire over something as harmless as marijuana! Boy, you're not very bright!

[Barnaby Jones]

The primary goal of teaching is communicating knowledge to students.

If you have a heavy accent and can't be understood, you fail the primary goal.

Considering how much the schools push equality and the evils of racism, I'm sure there are plenty of kids who are in the same boat, that they can't understand the simple things the teachers are saying, but don't want to speak up because they don't want to get in trouble.

Now, as for Ethnic Studies, the complaint there was that it was promoting separatism. I could see that.

This is silly! How does anyone determine whether an accent is too heavy or not? Is it in only regards to a foreign accent? Well, what about the variety of regional American accents that can get very heavy? What about people who speak softly? What about those that stutter or have other speech impediments? This sets a ridiculous precedent that creates all kinds of foolish slippery slopes!

[StanUpshaw]

I say English only.

No Spanish, no Chinese, and certainly no braille or sign language. You can't hear? Fuck you fuckstick.

[high fly]

But where are you getting your numbers? I'm finding 12,383 miles as the total coastline of the United States including AK & HI and 4,993 miles without.

I don't recall where I got it from, but have heard it a few times from different sources.
I don't think the numbers you got include the coast of all the islands we got. They're all over the place along the coasts.
Regardless of how many miles it is, there ain't no way we are going to keep people out who travel by boat.

Oh, and WF, you seen those subs the drug smugglers have been using?
Here's an article about one captured with 10 tons of coke (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/guatemala/6413303/Drug-smuggling-submarine-caught-with-ten-tonnes-of-cocaine-off-Guatemalan-coast.html)

Funny how this issue drives conservatives away from the way the Founding Fathers approached immigration. We didn't have these dopey immigration laws for about a hundred years when the same sort of hysteria and hate we see now was whipped up against Irish imigrants.
We should make it a lot easier to get citizenship and view them as assets, not problems. Think of all the times you have read about some admirable person who was the son of immigrants, and how often the story was the same. Their parents came to this country not speaking the language and slaved away at multiple menial jobs. It is like that with each wave of immigration we have had. The first generation does the shit work and the second generation goes on to success and become fiercely loyal citizens.

People will continue to come here no matter what the law says because things are so bad back home. The best way to cut those numbers way down is to improve conditions there so they don't want to come here.
In this we will be showing our better side, and will be well-regarded by history.

I have worked construction crews that were illegals. I also have a neighbor who is pregnant and I suspect is here illegally. Really nice woman, I would not treat her with the hatred I see from those whipped up into hysteria, nor would I treat those guys on the crews I supervised a few years ago that way. They came here seeking a better life, the same way people have been doing for hundreds of years....

[high fly]

Are you a fucking retard? He's a fucking cop! He's supposed to arrest people, and they pulled out ASSAULT RIFLES. This wasn't Cheech and Chong.

Can we put you down as being in favor of banning assault rifles?
In D.C. recently, some American citizens shot some other citizens with an AK47......

[StanUpshaw]

Can we put you down as being in favor of banning assault rifles?
In D.C. recently, some American citizens shot some other citizens with an AK47......

Come on now. You can't appeal to the Founding Fathers in one post, then preach gun control in the next.

[high fly]

Come on now. You can't appeal to the Founding Fathers in one post, then preach gun control in the next.

I did not give an opinion.
The way I interpret the Second Ammendment is thus:
Since we need a militia for national defense, citizens shall have the right to keep and bear the arms they would use in the militia.

The Second Ammendment is about assault weapons.
I have never posted here or anywhere else in favor of gun control.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Can we put you down as being in favor of banning assault rifles?
In D.C. recently, some American citizens shot some other citizens with an AK47......

Although I am in favor of gun control, the point of making mention of the assault rifles was to indicate these weren't some genial Mexican stoners just walking around, these were bad people with high-powered weapontry.

[Tenbatsuzen]

This is silly! How does anyone determine whether an accent is too heavy or not? Is it in only regards to a foreign accent? Well, what about the variety of regional American accents that can get very heavy? What about people who speak softly? What about those that stutter or have other speech impediments? This sets a ridiculous precedent that creates all kinds of foolish slippery slopes!

I am sure this is considered on a case-by-case basis, not if you have an accent, you're automatically fired.

It's probably developed from evaluations, parent feedback, and how the students are doing in class.

[Barnaby Jones]

I am sure this is considered on a case-by-case basis, not if you have an accent, you're automatically fired.

It's probably developed from evaluations, parent feedback, and how the students are doing in class.

Such precautions are usually tossed out the window with such jingoistic and over reactionary measures! You're looking at this realistically and with logic, and such factors are usually not on the forefront when ridiculous regulations like this are proposed and enacted! If it was based on the things you suggested, then singling out people with accents in any way like this would be totally unnecessary! It would simply fall under the purview of standard evaluations of how well educators are doing their job! It's completely redundant and designed only to play on xenophobic and racist fears and sensationalism!

[high fly]

I had a phenominal geography teacher who had a heavy German accent. I used to do a good imitation of it. He was a funny little guy, but a phenominal teacher.
It wasn't widely known, but Mr. Blatt was Jewish and from a family that was large and not really well off. They only had enough money to get one of them out of the country when Hitler came to power and he was chosen as the one to go.
After World War II he went back looking for them, but they had all been sent to the ovens....

[Syd]

I did not give an opinion.
The way I interpret the Second Ammendment is thus:
Since we need a militia for national defense, citizens shall have the right to keep and bear the arms they would use in the militia.

The Second Ammendment is about assault weapons.
I have never posted here or anywhere else in favor of gun control.

There's a pretty clear distinction between militia and a standing army, which implies there's a reasonable expectation of gun control.

[StanUpshaw]

There's a pretty clear distinction between militia and a standing army, which implies there's a reasonable expectation of gun control.

What?

[StanUpshaw]

I did not give an opinion.

I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Schumers plan calls for a biometric ID card. Can you say police state?

[Barnaby Jones]

Schumers plan calls for a biometric ID card. Can you say police state?

Suggestions like that are really scary!

[epo]

MLB players' union opposes Arizona immigration law (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jpB9zMb2JwWe7slv08WkM3q866_wD9FDMVS80)

Given a chance to take part in the 2011 All-Star game at Arizona, Ozzie Guillen insists he won't go.

"I wouldn't do it," the Chicago White Sox manager said Friday. "As a Latin American, it's natural that I have to support our own."

Guillen joined a growing chorus of opposition to Arizona's new law that empowers police to determine a person's immigration status. The state is home to all four major team sports, hosts half the clubs in spring training and holds top events in NASCAR, golf and tennis.

The Major League Baseball players' union issued a statement condemning the law. A congressman whose district includes Yankee Stadium wrote a letter to baseball commissioner Bud Selig urging him to pull the All-Star game from Phoenix. The World Boxing Council took a step to limit fights in Arizona.

Weiner said that if the law is not repealed or modified, the union would consider "additional steps."

A day earlier, WBC president Jose Sulaiman said its sanctioning body unanimously agreed it will not authorize Mexican boxers to fight in Arizona.

The problem with enacting stupid, reactionary laws is that they could cost you business. Here come the boycotts!

[hanso]

Schumers plan calls for a biometric ID card. Can you say police state?

chips all around.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sheriff Joe. Not running for Governor


http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2010/05/03/20100503joe-arpaio-arizona-governor-ON.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

chips all around.

Fuckin starvin

[A.J.]

chips all around.

http://img.youtube.com/vi/PFKQOMq_Ctk/0.jpg

[extracheese]

Call Them What They Are: Illegal Aliens
Mayor Ed Koch.

The push is on for providing amnesty to the estimated 12 to 20 million illegal aliens in this country. The supporters of this effort include President Barack Obama, former president George W. Bush, Senator John McCain, Majority Leader Harry Reid and New York Senator Chuck Schumer. Senator Schumer is now chairman of the immigration subcommittee previously chaired by the late Senator Ted Kennedy, a major amnesty proponent.

Amnesty supporters see themselves as taking the high road and claim that amnesty opponents are opposed to immigration, when nothing could be further from the truth. Many amnesty opponents actually support expanding legal immigration. Currently, the U.S. has the highest legal immigration in the world. Every year, we allow 750,000 immigrants to enter the country legally and make them eligible for citizenship within five years. Two hundred and fifty thousand aslyees are also permitted to enter annually. Those legal immigrants have the right to work and earn a living; the asylees are eligible to work six months after applying to work. If we need more immigrants, as many think we do to expand the workforce of our graying population, then we can easily increase the number of legal immigrants.

If we give the current illegals amnesty, you can be sure that 20 or so years from now, there will be a clamor for another amnesty bill as the illegals will continue to pour in. For example, the Simpson-Mazzoli bill, adopted by Congress in 1986, was hailed as the last amnesty bill we would need because the borders of the U.S., then a sieve, would be better protected. However, our borders continued to be porous, and the number of illegals burgeoned, and here we are again with the illegals and their supporters seeking amnesty once more for ever larger numbers.

No country in the world has open borders that foreigners can enter at will, certainly not Mexico. Arizona has an estimated 500,000 illegal aliens living in the state and in 2009, the border patrol agents arrested 241,000 illegal aliens, which is why that state enacted controversial legislation out of frustration. Arizona’s citizens are outraged by the presence of many criminals among the people crossing their border – remember there is an ongoing drug war in Mexico with thousands of Mexicans being killed and wounded south of the border by other Mexicans. Arizona does not want that war to spill over into Arizona. Arizona citizens are also distressed with the demands made by illegals upon medical and educational services.

Regrettably, the Arizona legislation went too far, allowing local police to ask individuals “reasonably suspected” to be illegal immigrants for identifying papers. This conjures up images of Nazis engaging in Jew catching in Germany. On the other hand, it would be sound and defensible policy to have the local police examine at the workplace the identity papers of all employees to ascertain whether they are legally allowed to work and, most important, ascertain if employers had intentionally violated current U.S. laws requiring employers to check the immigration status of hired workers. Those employers who intentionally violate the law should be pursued criminally and, if convicted, go to prison. Regrettably, this is not what is happening. If that policy were strictly enforced, illegal aliens would go home, since they are here primarily to get a job and send money home to their families. Recently, I saw an estimate that a million illegals had returned home because of our recession and unemployment in the U.S. which is now at 9.7 percent.

Amnesty supporters refuse to use the term illegal aliens, preferring instead undocumented aliens. They should call them what they are: illegal. Amnesty proponents also should acknowledge that an open border policy is indefensible and irrational and has not been adopted by any other country.

If open borders were such a good idea, why don’t we try on a limited scale simply expanding the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) among Mexico, Canada and the U.S. and allow anyone living in those three countries access to jobs in any of them? Would Canada consent to that? Would Mexico? I doubt it.

A week ago, Prime Minister Gordon Brown of Great Britain had to apologize to a woman voter for referring to her as “bigoted” when she voiced her objections to millions of Europeans in the European Union lawfully flooding into Great Britain and taking jobs. I don’t know whether she is bigoted in her attitude toward other Europeans, but she doesn’t have to be a bigot to object to the English having to compete for jobs and services such as healthcare and education with immigrants from other countries.

Mark McKinnon, who was a senior adviser to John McCain and President George W. Bush, was quoted in The New York Times of April 28th, as stating, “Immigration is the most explosive issue I’ve seen in my political career.” According to The Times, Mr. McKinnon “…also supported giving illegal immigrants a path to citizenship.” But, in his view, “an election year is the worst time to move good public policy on this issue.”

During the Bush presidency, amnesty proponents were twice defeated when they tried to shove their self-defined “good policy” down the throats of the voters. Amnesty advocates believed, as they do now, that they know what is best for us, but the American public stood up and said “no.” In an election year, the voters can throw the bums out, and that is why Congress fears to bring the issue up before the November elections.

I predict the Schumer legislation supported by President Obama and a whole host of prominent public officials and the media will fail. I also believe it is outrageous to threaten understandably frustrated, but misguided, Arizona with boycotts because we disagree with the protective procedures it has adopted. Let’s leave the legality of those procedures to the courts. We are one country and should not be boycotting one another. Persuasion should be our tool of choice, not punishment.

[Syd]

All immigration controls are racist, there weren't any till the irish showed up

fucking irish

[Skellington]

I live in Central Phoenix. This is the great American South West. We just passed a bill that it's ok to conceal guns with no permit. Fuck, we can bring them into bars. Is it because AZ is a hill billy podunk cowboy town? Ok, scratch that, I can answer that myself after living here for almost 3 years. 1070 has been circulating in a few forms for a while. They circulated again, and this time emotions were high due to a well known rancher that was shot and killed by 3 border jumpers. "citizens" are tired of "drug cartels, rapists and open fire on city streets". Living here, honestly, if the elite selection of brown people that don't speak english very well or at all, didn't act like fucking animals and spit in the middle of the grocery store where i shop, breed like cockroaches and raise children that just as barbarian and disrespectful, if they learned english like my grandparents and parents were forced to, if they didn't gather in groups at the fucking gas station and cat call 'hey baby, i'd like to lick your pussy', then perhaps people would feel a little more on the sensitive, humanitarian side of this. Seriously, is that how you pick a woman up in mexico? DOES IT WORK!?!?!? The only thing this bill is accomplishing is getting our already reduced (3000 laid off earlier this year) police force....shot. A deputy was already gunned down with a AK-47 doing a routine pull over. So, the racist profiling PC boohoo sensitive feelings petty comments need to be shoved back up the liberal colons there were shat from. And the 1070 needs to be rewritten. yes, something SHOULD BE DONE about illegal aliens. It's not fair and a slap in the face to our relatives, friends, friends families, neighbors, that spend 7-10 years waiting to be naturalized, taking a test that even the average american coulldn't pass and spending a great deal of time and money to become a citizen. Rewarding people for shortcutting the system by letting them suck on the governments tit is not the way to go about being a good humanitarian. I don't have an answer as to how to fix this either, but if something isn't done, the god honest easy solution would be a hands down gun toting blow out of a war. We conquered to call this place home. We shouldn't give it back while bending over and extending a handout.

How do I really feel? Fuck this place, see you on the East coast 10/01/10.

[StanUpshaw]

cat call 'hey baby, i'd like to lick your pussy'

So they can speak English?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So they can speak English?

They like to leak poosee

[high fly]

There's a pretty clear distinction between militia and a standing army, which implies there's a reasonable expectation of gun control.

Back then, the militia was expected to provide the bulk of the army for national defense. The Founding Fathers were afraid of a large military which could carry out a coup. They mistakenly believed the militia was sufficient for national defense. They were dreadfully wrong, as the militia got creamed more than once.
The reason they put in the part about citizens having the right to keep and bear arms for militia use is the nation began in debt and maintaining armories was an expense they did not want. Also, weapons kept in armories would not be as well maintained as they would by someone who owned his gun.
This was very controversial at the time, because every able-bodied male was thought part of the militia, or at least elligible. Many could not afford to buy a good gun for such use and militia drills were something held weekly after church on many town greens.

The first gun control law outlawed concealed carry and was enacted in the 18-teens, as I recall. Back then, concealed carry was looked down upon - something only robbers and assassins did.

[high fly]

, if they learned english like my grandparents and parents were forced to,

Just curious, Skellington, who forced your parents and grandparents to speak English?

[Dude!]

I live in Central Phoenix. This is the great American South West. We just passed a bill that it's ok to conceal guns with no permit. Fuck, we can bring them into bars. Is it because AZ is a hill billy podunk cowboy town? Ok, scratch that, I can answer that myself after living here for almost 3 years. 1070 has been circulating in a few forms for a while. They circulated again, and this time emotions were high due to a well known rancher that was shot and killed by 3 border jumpers. "citizens" are tired of "drug cartels, rapists and open fire on city streets". Living here, honestly, if the elite selection of brown people that don't speak english very well or at all, didn't act like fucking animals and spit in the middle of the grocery store where i shop, breed like cockroaches and raise children that just as barbarian and disrespectful, if they learned english like my grandparents and parents were forced to, if they didn't gather in groups at the fucking gas station and cat call 'hey baby, i'd like to lick your pussy', then perhaps people would feel a little more on the sensitive, humanitarian side of this. Seriously, is that how you pick a woman up in mexico? DOES IT WORK!?!?!? The only thing this bill is accomplishing is getting our already reduced (3000 laid off earlier this year) police force....shot. A deputy was already gunned down with a AK-47 doing a routine pull over. So, the racist profiling PC boohoo sensitive feelings petty comments need to be shoved back up the liberal colons there were shat from. And the 1070 needs to be rewritten. yes, something SHOULD BE DONE about illegal aliens. It's not fair and a slap in the face to our relatives, friends, friends families, neighbors, that spend 7-10 years waiting to be naturalized, taking a test that even the average american coulldn't pass and spending a great deal of time and money to become a citizen. Rewarding people for shortcutting the system by letting them suck on the governments tit is not the way to go about being a good humanitarian. I don't have an answer as to how to fix this either, but if something isn't done, the god honest easy solution would be a hands down gun toting blow out of a war. We conquered to call this place home. We shouldn't give it back while bending over and extending a handout.

How do I really feel? Fuck this place, see you on the East coast 10/01/10.


finally, a report from the front line
instead of all the blather
from people who have no clue

[underdog]

How do I really feel? Fuck this place, see you on the East coast 10/01/10.

Lucky for you, there are no central americans on the East Coast.

[high fly]

.........nobody tell him.......

[badmonkey]

.........nobody tell him.......

Tell "him" what? and Who is "him"?

[high fly]

All immigration controls are racist, there weren't any till the irish showed up


Always fun to watch conservatives who claim to be originalists skulk away from the way the Founding Fathers treated immigration....

[A.J.]

Just curious, Skellington, who forced your parents and grandparents to speak English?

Common sense and a willingness to assimilate: as was the fashion back then.

.........nobody tell him.......

Her.

[Skellington]

So they can speak English?

To the extent of Cheech and Chong movie quotes.

[Skellington]

Just curious, Skellington, who forced your parents and grandparents to speak English?

In order to be naturalized, you need to be able to speak, read, write and understand basic English. Mainly, they figured they are in American, in order to converse with their neighbors and be a respectful citizen, they should learn the language. When American's go to other countries, they are expected to speak that countries language. It is considered rude to expect people to speak YOUR language when you are in THEIR country. On the other hand, Maybe the United States should pick up another language. In most other countries, people know 3-4 languages because of the proximity of one country to another.

Speaking of force, my Grandmother was forced to not be left handed. Back in the day, it meant you were a retard and child of the devil.

No matter the language barrier, there is a legal way to go about becoming a citizen. Considering other countries, most do not offer official citizenship or even permnanent residency to those born outside their country. To become a citizen here is a privilege. Just like getting your license to drive. If you can't read road signs or operate a vehicle correctly and within law, then you don't get the privilege of being licensed to do so. Do people drive without a license? Yes, and it's illegal, and the reason why other people have to pay higher insurance because these douchebag idiots with no DL or insurance of their own.

Want to live in the United States? Then pay the taxes. Learn to communicate with your fellow citizen. Be a productive member of society. I don't have kids, yet I have to pay taxes to support other peoples kids going to school. Illegals and the Duggers that have 20 effing kids make my taxes miserable. I have to pay extra rent to own dogs in my apartment, but people can have 12 fucking kids in one apartment and not pay anything extra. My dogs are cleaner than their fucking loud ass SHITTING IN THE BUSHES kids.

No central americans on the East Coast? Most of my friends growing up were hispanic or south american (i'm from VA). And their parents were hard working and polite, some were probably illegal. My issue isn't with brown people, it's with the fucking border jumpers in Arizona that piss in the middle of the street and shoot each other behind my apartment building. The ones that will shove you out of the way at the food bank and use their children as sympathy bait. (yes, skelly had a few hard months due to ex-asshole boyfriend jerkface dickwad dog-abuser woman beater piece of shit on my sandal)

Living here, the Native Americans hate the mexicans. Even the native fucking americans hate them.

But, bad illegal brown people habits aside (and not all of them are like that, there are good eggs), the fact is the illegal part. Laws are made for a reason. The 1070 is written pretty poorly and forcing our police enforcement to shoulder a danger and possibility of lawsuit and fear of these things that they should not be required to endure. Case and point. Phoenix, we need a better solution.

Another issue with illegals is human trafficking. One hazard of driving the I-10 everyday to work is looking out for Vans. Lordy lordy, a cop shows up and pulls them over, you have 20 fucking people barrel out of the van like clowns from a car and run into the middle of traffic on a 65mph+ highway. True story, i've lived here almost 3 years and have had this happen 9 times on the way to work. I don't enjoy playing frogger and avoiding swerving vehicles and dodging humans.

/end rant and assumed 'skelly is a fucking racist' remarks.

[Serpico1103]

Victim.

[Skellington]

Victim.

Survivor.

[Serpico1103]

Survivor.
Of your own bad decisions.

[Skellington]

Of your own bad decisions.

Yes, I chose to date a douchebag. Did I decide to have him do to me what he did to me? I think not. So while you are on the other side of the country judging, how about showing me your papers?

[Serpico1103]

Yes, I chose to date a douchebag. Did I decide to have him do to me what he did to me? I think not. So while you are on the other side of the country judging, how about showing me your papers?
People can only do to you what you let them.
Take your food stamps and be happy that you were born in a country that provides for the weak and unfortunate.

[Dude!]

People can only do to you what you let them.

yes, and we have let them
do it too long
time to get them back
to south of the border
by whatever means is necessary

[Skellington]

People can only do to you what you let them.
Take your food stamps and be happy that you were born in a country that provides for the weak and unfortunate.

wewww oooo wweeeeewww ooo, unoriginal asshole alert on the R&F messageboard. Ring the bell, this guy gets a gold star.

Sorry buddy, food bank lasted a month, then I got back on my feet and have a better life now. It's called doing something about it. Everyone makes poor decisions.

I don't consider people that continue to breed and proudly admit to abusing the system as weak or unfortunate. There are people that are unfortunate and are in need that can't get help because others have depleted the system.

[Serpico1103]

Is WF single? Skell, he is a perfect match.
All those 'forces' you cited about your grandparents were societal, not legal.
I have travelled to several european countries; never had to speak a different language, was never treated rudely (even in france).
Great 80 degree blue sky day in illegal free BK.

[underdog]

When American's go to other countries, they are expected to speak that countries language. It is considered rude to expect people to speak YOUR language when you are in THEIR country. On the other hand, Maybe the United States should pick up another language. In most other countries, people know 3-4 languages because of the proximity of one country to another.

Americans constantly go to other countries without knowing the language. Most other countries speak English, too. Maybe the burden should be on the American people to learn another language, like other countries do.

People act like learning a new language is so easy, especially when you're older. Most of the people who struggle with English here are from very poor areas where their schooling wasn't very good to begin with, and we expect them to learn an incredibly difficult language overnight. It's insane.

There's no official language in America. Speak whatever the fuck you want.

No central americans on the East Coast?

I was being sarcastic.

[StanUpshaw]

They should just get the Rosetta Stone app for their iPhones. They'll learn English in no time.

[underdog]

They should just get the Rosetta Stone app for their iPhones. They'll learn English in no time.

I'm going to go check for a rosetta stone app for android. I would like to learn spanish.

[Barnaby Jones]

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nnOczvV5Arc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nnOczvV5Arc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[Skellington]

Is WF single? Skell, he is a perfect match.
All those 'forces' you cited about your grandparents were societal, not legal.
I have travelled to several european countries; never had to speak a different language, was never treated rudely (even in france).
Great 80 degree blue sky day in illegal free BK.


read up on naturalization. it was very legal.

I grew up speaking 4 languages. I learned 2 more as an adult. can i speak all of them fluently? no, i don't use them everyday, i sound like a 5 year old, but i can get around europe and be polite and try to respect the fact that i shouldn't expect a german to speak english when in germany. They all know a extent of english. But the respectful and polite thing to do is try to speak the language. they'll switch to english if you are butchering the language that badly, or order your coffee with sugar and teeth.

I have been all over europe and asia. I know what i've encountered and what dear friends have told me are thoughts about elitist american folk that come over and just assume that everyone speaks english. So i guess you are pretty secure in turning a blind eye to fact that they probably thing you are a douche. A douche, but a douche with money that will tip because he is a silly american. Ugh.

I know spanish and can read spanish, both hispie spanish and castillian spanish. i'm curious to know what other people are saying. But again, it's not about learning english, it's about being here legally, and the law states, if you are not a born citizen, there is a certain criteria you must meet. Why is it fair to let border jumpers skirt that law/system while others dutifully respect it? Would they be considered diplomats at that point, where the rules don't really apply to them? If they aren't a citizen, they don't have to follow our laws, so what good will it be? Hooray, chaos.

Again, moot point.

[Skellington]

Americans constantly go to other countries without knowing the language. Most other countries speak English, too. Maybe the burden should be on the American people to learn another language, like other countries do.

People act like learning a new language is so easy, especially when you're older. Most of the people who struggle with English here are from very poor areas where their schooling wasn't very good to begin with, and we expect them to learn an incredibly difficult language overnight. It's insane.

There's no official language in America. Speak whatever the fuck you want.



I was being sarcastic.

I make a point to speak whatever I want. When someone asks me a question in spanish, I answer in german, and occassionally ukrainian, just to spice it up.

English is not an easy language. I used to play games with my friends mom, she'd point to my shoes, and i i'd say what they are, i'd point to food items and she'd tell me what they were in her language. She learned enough english to ask directions, explain medically how she was feeling, and to address someone beyond 'hey' or 'you'. It's really hard to learn any language unless you are immersed in it. Then you try to speak and you eventually learn. No one expects anyone to do anything overnight, but a pocket translator couldn't hurt.

Rosetta Stone does work, and if you are military, you can get it at a discount.

[underdog]

Rosetta Stone does work, and if you are military, you can get it at a discount.

I'm on the internet. I get a better discount.

And it seems to work pretty well for me.

[torker]

HAPPY
CINCO
DE MAYO,
BITCHES
http://www.costumeshopper.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/59543.jpg

[Hottub]

Alright. Things are getting a bit too personal in this "discussion".

This is a great topic and you guys are making some interesting points.
But keep it on topic!!

Any more personal attacks will lead to a vacation.

Carry on.

[torker]

Will we need passports?
http://www.vacationstomexico.com/header3.jpg

[epo]

Alright. Things are getting a bit too personal in this "discussion".

This is a great topic and you guys are making some interesting points.
But keep it on topic!!

Any more personal attacks will lead to a vacation.

Carry on.

Maybe you need a vacation.

HIPPIE!

[Hottub]

Maybe you need a vacation.

HIPPIE!

Hippie? I'm a Reagan Republican.:smoke:

[epo]

Hippie? I'm a Reagan Republican.:smoke:

Eww. That's the worst thing you can call a man.

[epo]

Finally they are making a movie about the law:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nnOczvV5Arc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nnOczvV5Arc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[underdog]

Finally they are making a movie about the law:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nnOczvV5Arc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nnOczvV5Arc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Barnaby Jones is better.

[Barnaby Jones]

Quit copying me! Jerk!

[epo]

Barnaby Jones is better.

Wow. I honestly didn't see that Mojo Pin posted that.

I gotta work on my Adult ADHD.

[Barnaby Jones]

No, you dummy! It was me!

[Tenbatsuzen]

You know, Skelly posts something that makes a lick of sense. she's the only one posting in this thread who actually, you know, lives in Arizona. Kinda like how my ire gets raised when epo tries be authoritative on NJ politics when it's not the same deal.

the closest I've come is dating a mexican-american from Arizona.

[Barnaby Jones]

You know, Skelly posts something that makes a lick of sense. she's the only one posting in this thread who actually, you know, lives in Arizona. Kinda like how my ire gets raised when epo tries be authoritative on NJ politics when it's not the same deal.

the closest I've come is dating a mexican-american from Arizona.

Living in Arizona does not make one an authority on immigration!

[epo]

You know, Skelly posts something that makes a lick of sense. she's the only one posting in this thread who actually, you know, lives in Arizona. Kinda like how my ire gets raised when epo tries be authoritative on NJ politics when it's not the same deal.

the closest I've come is dating a mexican-american from Arizona.

Sorry for bringing a perspective of working in politics, working with unions and understanding how the mechanics on how that shit actually works.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

We need more Mexicans in the US like her

http://www.celebrity-pictures.ca/Celebrities/Salma-Hayek/Salma-Hayek-33.JPG

Not like this one.


http://readingeagle.com/REnetImages/2008/01/29/D8UFIGRO1/500x500_3c57def4-38e7-458a-abc5-5231c397097c.jpg


I have love for Latinas especially Colombian women

[StanUpshaw]

I want to get some of those Peruvian broads with their Laurel & Hardy hats.

[torker]

Not like this one.


http://readingeagle.com/REnetImages/2008/01/29/D8UFIGRO1/500x500_3c57def4-38e7-458a-abc5-5231c397097c.jpg



<object style="height: 344px; width: 425px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ijyZ_fBmb2c"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ijyZ_fBmb2c" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></object>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I want to get some of those Peruvian broads with their Laurel & Hardy hats.

Most are top heavy but have no asses. Now Brazilians and Argentineans are a different story

[StanUpshaw]

Most are top heavy but have no asses. Now Brazilians and Argentineans are a different story

I don't want them for their beauty, I just like funny hats.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't want them for their beauty, I just like funny hats.

You should go for the bright colors too

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pieraperuvian/2953063326/

[Skellington]

Living in Arizona does not make one an authority on immigration!

Never claimed to be one.

Feelings and experiences aside, Illegal is what it is: illegal.

On another note, I was playing Uno with a group of Mexicans and gave up once I figured out they were holding all the green cards.

[StanUpshaw]

If you really want to support the cause, you should boycott Uno altogether.

[Furtherman]

Never claimed to be one.

Feelings and experiences aside, Illegal is what it is: illegal.

On another note, I was playing Uno with a group of Mexicans and gave up once I figured out they were holding all the green cards.

Agreed, and that's funny! :lol:

[Ogre]

In order to be naturalized, you need to be able to speak, read, write and understand basic English. Mainly, they figured they are in American, in order to converse with their neighbors and be a respectful citizen, they should learn the language. When American's go to other countries, they are expected to speak that countries language. It is considered rude to expect people to speak YOUR language when you are in THEIR country. On the other hand, Maybe the United States should pick up another language. In most other countries, people know 3-4 languages because of the proximity of one country to another.

Speaking of force, my Grandmother was forced to not be left handed. Back in the day, it meant you were a retard and child of the devil.

No matter the language barrier, there is a legal way to go about becoming a citizen. Considering other countries, most do not offer official citizenship or even permnanent residency to those born outside their country. To become a citizen here is a privilege. Just like getting your license to drive. If you can't read road signs or operate a vehicle correctly and within law, then you don't get the privilege of being licensed to do so. Do people drive without a license? Yes, and it's illegal, and the reason why other people have to pay higher insurance because these douchebag idiots with no DL or insurance of their own.

Want to live in the United States? Then pay the taxes. Learn to communicate with your fellow citizen. Be a productive member of society. I don't have kids, yet I have to pay taxes to support other peoples kids going to school. Illegals and the Duggers that have 20 effing kids make my taxes miserable. I have to pay extra rent to own dogs in my apartment, but people can have 12 fucking kids in one apartment and not pay anything extra. My dogs are cleaner than their fucking loud ass SHITTING IN THE BUSHES kids.

No central americans on the East Coast? Most of my friends growing up were hispanic or south american (i'm from VA). And their parents were hard working and polite, some were probably illegal. My issue isn't with brown people, it's with the fucking border jumpers in Arizona that piss in the middle of the street and shoot each other behind my apartment building. The ones that will shove you out of the way at the food bank and use their children as sympathy bait. (yes, skelly had a few hard months due to ex-asshole boyfriend jerkface dickwad dog-abuser woman beater piece of shit on my sandal)

Living here, the Native Americans hate the mexicans. Even the native fucking americans hate them.

But, bad illegal brown people habits aside (and not all of them are like that, there are good eggs), the fact is the illegal part. Laws are made for a reason. The 1070 is written pretty poorly and forcing our police enforcement to shoulder a danger and possibility of lawsuit and fear of these things that they should not be required to endure. Case and point. Phoenix, we need a better solution.

Another issue with illegals is human trafficking. One hazard of driving the I-10 everyday to work is looking out for Vans. Lordy lordy, a cop shows up and pulls them over, you have 20 fucking people barrel out of the van like clowns from a car and run into the middle of traffic on a 65mph+ highway. True story, i've lived here almost 3 years and have had this happen 9 times on the way to work. I don't enjoy playing frogger and avoiding swerving vehicles and dodging humans.

/end rant and assumed 'skelly is a fucking racist' remarks.

You had me at "shitting in the bushes":wub:

[Ogre]

Americans constantly go to other countries without knowing the language.

Yeah on a round trip ticket with a Passport. Not to set up camp, have children and expect everyone to cater to them. I have lived overseas and one thing you learn real quick is to blend. That means learning the host language as a courtesy to your host country or do the best you can with your limited knowledge of that language. The amount of respect that I received from Germans and French when first attempting to communicate with them in their language often made for much more pleasant exchanges. Like I said trying to blend.

The problem that most of America has with today's immigration situation is that Hispanics are making little attempt to assimilate into American culture. I am not saying to give up their history and heritage, but to become Americans first. Instead they give a big fuck you to the American citizens by defiantly thumbing their nose at our rule of law, while insisting shit is written in Spanish. Now they rally, march and DEMAND free shit and equal access that Joe Lunch bucket will pay for. If you denounce them then you have the ACLU and La Raza coming after you with charges of racism.

NCLR National Council of La Raza, literally translates into "THE Race". Are you fucking kidding me? The Race ? What if a white organization formed claiming whites to be THE Race? Oh that's right, there was one. It was the KKK. So until this group of ILLEGAL immigrants, decides they wish to assimilate and lawfully blend with America, I think they are pissing in the wind.

[underdog]

Not to set up camp, have children and expect everyone to cater to them. I have lived overseas and one thing you learn real quick is to blend. That means learning the host language as a courtesy to your host country or do the best you can with your limited knowledge of that language.

The whole free world is dealing with the same issue people have in America. France is near race-riot state at all times because people come and won't assimilate. England is almost as bad.

People want to go to places where they have opportunity. They usually don't have the education or time to learn a new language before they go.

[Barnaby Jones]

Assimilation typically takes at least a generation! Guess Ogre really hates all of those Chinatowns across the country, too!

[Ogre]

Assimilation typically takes at least a generation! Guess Ogre really hates all of those Chinatowns across the country, too!

First, the migrant worker gimmick has been happening for many generations, I mean that's what this is supposed to be about right? The poor downtrodden guest workers that span generations?

Second, you don't see Asians massing in the streets, demanding equal rights and access to US citizens funded services. They are too busy working. You don't see the Asian community demanding that you learn Cantonese because it is too hard for them to learn the English they need to run their businesses. You don't have to push a number to speak English. You just have to order by number.

[Barnaby Jones]

But you also don't have politicians and citizens clamoring for them to assimilate or worse! Hispanics are often having those rallies because even when they are here legally they end up marginalized and segregated! Asians are treated like they're a "safe" minority! You're basically showing that yourself by showing your approval for them only because of your stereotyped perceptions that they only work hard and don't cause what you consider to be a fuss! You're basing this off of the false image of "THE American" that doesn't exist! Americans don't have to speak english! Deal with it, gringo!

[underdog]

They are too busy working. You don't see the Asian community demanding that you learn Cantonese because it is too hard for them to learn the English they need to run their businesses

You've obviously never been to chinatown during the daytime.

[underdog]

You don't have to push a number to speak English.

I never understood this.

Is it really that hard to push 1?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If Asians, Indians, Arabs Pakistanis etc can learn English coming from languages which uses a totally different Alphabet system some read from right to left, Hispanics can too. Hell they have a head start.

[Barnaby Jones]

Nobody has to learn any language in America! That's the beauty of it! What are you, some kind of big government stooge?

[SatCam]

If Asians, Indians, Arabs Pakistanis etc can learn English coming from languages which uses a totally different Alphabet system some read from right to left, Hispanics can too. Hell they have a head start.

I know right all those amazing schools in Mexico and not one spic knows English????????

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nobody has to learn any language in America! That's the beauty of it! What are you, some kind of big government stooge?

There is talk in the immigration bills drawn up that illegals are required to learn English. How will that be enforced?

While I agree with you with your comment, If I was coming to America I would want to learn English so I can communicate in the language so no one fucks me over

[SatCam]

If I was coming to America I would want to learn English so I can communicate in the language so no one fucks me over

so you admit it

[WRESTLINGFAN]

so you admit it

Admit what?

[Barnaby Jones]

There is talk in the immigration bills drawn up that illegals are required to learn English. How will that be enforced?

It shouldn't be! Nobody in America should be forced to speak any language! If people can get by without speaking english, good for them!

While I agree with you with your comment, If I was coming to America I would want to learn English so I can communicate in the language so no one fucks me over

Perhaps, but many people don't have the time and luxury to learn a new language!

[Ogre]

It shouldn't be! Nobody in America should be forced to speak any language! If people can get by without speaking english, good for them!



Perhaps, but many people don't have the time and luxury to learn a new language!

Sounds like a bunch of excuses for a group of people to continue their own brand of exclusion and racism. Separate but equal is that what you are espousing?

[Barnaby Jones]

Sounds like a bunch of excuses for a group of people to continue their own brand of exclusion and racism. Separate but equal is that what you are espousing?

Nope! Need and necessity will dictate what languages will be spoken where and by who! It's effectively a sociological free market! True Libertarianism at its finest! That's the beauty of being able to change and evolve!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sounds like a bunch of excuses for a group of people to continue their own brand of exclusion and racism. Separate but equal is that what you are espousing?

Sounds like what the illegals are esplainin

[Barnaby Jones]

I know WF is on my side with this! He's definitely anti-big government and would never support something as draconian as forcing everyone to speak the same language!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know WF is on my side with this! He's definitely anti-big government and would never support something as draconian as forcing everyone to speak the same language!

Not forcing but encouraging people to speak English. Thats what language our commerce and trade is conducted in for the most part. Im saying that if Chinese, Arabs etc can learn it, Hispanics can learn English as well.

I am American of Italian background. Sure I love pasta and meatballs on Sunday afternoon and Holidays with endless food, however my allegiance is to the stars and bars

I learned Italian and took Spanish in school because when I visited Italy I would be able to communicate. Ive been to Mexico other countries in Latin America and it was a great help that I know Spanish

While I was in the Marine Corps was deployed to Okinawa twice, even though I am not fluent in Japanese I knew enough when I went into town I was able to talk to the locals


This immigration bill makes no sense. How will they pay back taxes when theres no record of what they earned? Its impossible to enforce the learn english rule and talk about a national id card scares the fuck outta me

[Barnaby Jones]

Though I think it's already encouraged! If people can make it in America without speaking much or any english, hey, more power to them!

And I agree, that bill is a nightmare! No thanks!

[high fly]

While I was in the Marine Corps was deployed to Okinawa twice, even though I am not fluent in Japanese I knew enough when I went into town I was able to talk to the locals



"Fie dollah for numbah two boom-boom" doesn't count

[WRESTLINGFAN]

"Fie dollah for numbah two boom-boom" doesn't count

Shows your ignorance. Thats in Thailand

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Looks like this backfired against the schools VP. If anyone wants to wear any kind of flag, let them even if its a rainbow flag.

Most people don't realize that Cinco de Mayo isnt an official holiday in Mexico they don't get the day off its just another day to drink in this country

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM8IyEcEQfo

[high fly]

What difference does it make whether it is an official holiday or not?
Those kids who wore American flag t-shirts and their parents need an education on the proper way to display Old Glory.
Our flag is not an article of clothing intended to soak up zit-juice from teenagers...

[StanUpshaw]

You buy into that shit?

[badmonkey]

Though I think it's already encouraged! If people can make it in America without speaking much or any english, hey, more power to them!

And I agree, that bill is a nightmare! No thanks!

People can "make it" here without speaking English, but they'd probably rather make it across the poverty line instead. Learning to communicate in English increases their chances for success exponentially.

Census Reports on Linguistic Isolation in U.S. (http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/lingiso.htm)
The Census Bureau defines a linguistically isolated household as on in which no one 14 years old and over speaks only English or speaks a non-English language and speaks English "very well." In other words, all members of the household 14 years old and over have at least some difficulty with English.

Some national-level highlights from the collection of tables titled “America Speaks: A Demographic Profile of Foreign-Language Speakers for the United States: 2000 (http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=usgovinfo&cdn=newsissues&tm=141&f=11&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hh-fam/AmSpks.html),” include:

* Out of 97,454,100 total U.S. households, a language other than English was spoken in 14,005,410, of which 3,026,542 households were classified as linguistically isolated.

* Among households with combined annual incomes of $15,000 or less, 1,068,734 were linguistically isolated, compared to only 105,871 households with incomes of $100,000 or more.

Demographic Change and the Life Circumstances of Immigrant Families
Authors: Donald J. Hernandez (http://futureofchildren.org/futureofchildren/publications/journals/article/index.xml?journalid=39&articleid=124&sectionid=816)
Lack of language skills can make it difficult to communicate with teachers and with health and other service organizations. These barriers, combined with the other indicators discussed above, cause children in immigrant families to be more than twice as likely as those from native-born families to experience multiple risk factors critical to their development.

Multiple Risk Factors
A wide range of socioeconomic and cultural factors in children's families can have negative impacts on child well-being and development. The statistics presented thus far indicate the extent to which children of different groups experience various risk factors, looking at each risk factor individually. But some children experience none of these risks, while others experience several. Four critical risk factors that can have significant effects on children's outcomes include:

(1) Having a mother who has not graduated from high school

(2) Living in economic deprivation (based on the 2x-poverty measure)

(3) Living in a linguistically isolated household

(4) Living in a one-parent family

It's not racism or hate to want them to learn our language and become Americans. Letting them continue here in linguistic isolation, is more like not slave owners not wanting slaves to learn to read. If they can read for themselves in English, they increase their ability to conduct business in this country and less vulnerable to liars and thieves. I don't understand why you would want them to remain poor and uneducated.

[StanUpshaw]

It's not racism or hate to want them to learn our language and become Americans. Letting them continue here in linguistic isolation, is more like not slave owners not wanting slaves to learn to read. If they can read for themselves in English, they increase their ability to conduct business in this country and less vulnerable to liars and thieves. I don't understand why you would want them to remain poor and uneducated.

Do these idiotic false dichotomies work on anyone?

[Barnaby Jones]

It's not racism or hate to want them to learn our language and become Americans. Letting them continue here in linguistic isolation, is more like not slave owners not wanting slaves to learn to read. If they can read for themselves in English, they increase their ability to conduct business in this country and less vulnerable to liars and thieves. I don't understand why you would want them to remain poor and uneducated.

Why are you making things up? You're coo-coo, buddy! If english is necessary for personal advancement or success, it will be learned! Nobody is keeping them from learning! Forcing people to speak anything, on the hand, is wrong and unamerican! Why do you hate America? Ha! Look what I did!

[badmonkey]

Why are you making things up? You're coo-coo, buddy! If english is necessary for personal advancement or success, it will be learned! Nobody is keeping them from learning! Forcing people to speak anything, on the hand, is wrong and unamerican! Why do you hate America? Ha! Look what I did!

You disagree with the census information and people that have studied this? Read the sources I cited. I didn't make anything up. Name ten successful people in this country that don't speak English. It shouldn't be too hard for you since it's not a barrier to success or anything. I'll let you off the hook on naming ten. How about you just name one?

[StanUpshaw]

You disagree with the census information and people that have studied this? Read the sources I cited. I didn't make anything up. Name ten successful people in this country that don't speak English. It shouldn't be too hard for you since it's not a barrier to success or anything. I'll let you off the hook on naming ten. How about you just name one?

Do you honestly think you're making cogent arguments?

[torker]

You disagree with the census information and people that have studied this? Read the sources I cited. I didn't make anything up. Name ten successful people in this country that don't speak English. It shouldn't be too hard for you since it's not a barrier to success or anything. I'll let you off the hook on naming ten. How about you just name one?

http://lasvegasblog.harrahs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/teller_solo.jpg

[Barnaby Jones]

You disagree with the census information and people that have studied this? Read the sources I cited. I didn't make anything up. Name ten successful people in this country that don't speak English. It shouldn't be too hard for you since it's not a barrier to success or anything. I'll let you off the hook on naming ten. How about you just name one?

Who are you even arguing with? I don't want to deny anyone the opportunity to learn to speak english! You've gone batty!

[badmonkey]

Do you honestly think you're making cogent arguments?

troll

Who are you even arguing with? I don't want to deny anyone the opportunity to learn to speak english! You've gone batty!

troll

[Barnaby Jones]

Poor guy! He seems to actually think people were arguing that immigrants should be kept from learning to speak English!

If we're going to force people to speak languages you'd hope we do it the smart way and teach everyone Mandarin and Hindi instead of English!

[high fly]

People can "make it" here without speaking English, but they'd probably rather make it across the poverty line instead. Learning to communicate in English increases their chances for success exponentially.


It does in most cases. They don't need a law to find that out. It's kind of obvious.

In this country, there have always been areas where languages other than English were widely spoken.
I can not recall where, but I once read of a whole public school system where classes were taught in German. I think it was somewhere near Milwaukee.
Our country is a richer, more interesting place with all the different cultures, whether it is the Little Italy's, the Chinatowns or the French Quarters in various cities.

[ChimneyFish]

You disagree with the census information and people that have studied this? Read the sources I cited. I didn't make anything up. Name ten successful people in this country that don't speak English. It shouldn't be too hard for you since it's not a barrier to success or anything. I'll let you off the hook on naming ten. How about you just name one?

http://lasvegasblog.harrahs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/teller_solo.jpg

Epic win, my friend.

[badmonkey]

It does in most cases. They don't need a law to find that out. It's kind of obvious.

I don't think I said there should be a law. You definitely should have to learn some amount of English if you want to be a citizen of this country. If you just want to be a resident alien and you have bilingual family members that can take care of you then that's fantastic. However, you shouldn't expect anybody outside of that family unit to cater to your lack of English language skills.

Our country is a richer, more interesting place with all the different cultures, whether it is the Little Italy's, the Chinatowns or the French Quarters in various cities.

I agree wholeheartedly that those areas do make things more interesting. You don't have to be able to speak Italian, Chinese, or French/Creole in order to enjoy those areas and participate tho. Those areas have plenty of bilingual people walking around as well.

The English language in this country is one of the main things that we have in common that allows us to easily learn about each other and understand each other. They call it a language barrier for a reason. Here's a list of languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers) on wikipedia organized by number of native speakers, just to illustrate how many languages are out there. How many languages should we the people and the govt be forced to learn in order to accommodate other citizens? Which ones should be left out and why? Why isn't it more convenient for people that want to be citizens of this country to learn how to communicate with the other citizens of this country in the most common language we have? I don't expect answers to those questions or anything. I think it's in the best interests of legal immigrants to learn the language so that they give their children a better chance of success and a future in this country. I think it's in the best interest of illegal immigrants to learn to speak English as fluently as possible so that they can either blend in or fill out the necessary paperwork to start on their path to being legal.

[badmonkey]

Epic win, my friend.

Being mute is not the same as not being proficient in English. It was a nice try, but I think Teller can understand the words that are coming outta your mouth.

[high fly]

Name ten successful people in this country that don't speak English. It shouldn't be too hard for you since it's not a barrier to success or anything. I'll let you off the hook on naming ten. How about you just name one?

Who don't speak English.


George W. Bush

[high fly]

I don't think I said there should be a law. You definitely should have to learn some amount of English if you want to be a citizen of this country. If you just want to be a resident alien and you have bilingual family members that can take care of you then that's fantastic. However, you shouldn't expect anybody outside of that family unit to cater to your lack of English language skills.



I agree wholeheartedly that those areas do make things more interesting. You don't have to be able to speak Italian, Chinese, or French/Creole in order to enjoy those areas and participate tho. Those areas have plenty of bilingual people walking around as well.



Yes, they do.
Get yourself a copy of Charlie Wilson's War. In one of the early chapters, the formative years of Gust Avrakatos are described. He grew up in Aliquippa, Pennsylvania. As I recall, his father had some sort of soft drink business in the region and young Gust would travel from town to town selling and collecting receipts from different business owners. In many of those towns were sections where people spoke languages like Hungarian and Romanian and he picked up a lot - and needed to - in order to conduct business.
Where I live are a Chinese restaurant and a Korean drycleaners owned by people who do not speak English. They have a kid on site to translate and do pretty well for themselves.
But your larger point is well taken and well put.

[torker]

Being mute is not the same as not being proficient in English. It was a nice try, but I think Teller can understand the words that are coming outta your mouth.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/03/28/alg_matsui_wife.jpg
How do you say 'epic win' in Japanese?

[PapaBear]

Being mute is not the same as not being proficient in English.
He's not mute, BTW.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

PLAY BALL !!!!!


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Aq7cxrPrbNQ1x.Mf.r0vsBwRvLYF?slug=ap-selig

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Whether you agree or not with the bill. Holder embarassed himself. He couldn't read 10 fucking pages?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U4tI_qzyH0

[Dude!]

Whether you agree or not with the bill. Holder embarassed himself. He couldn't read 10 fucking pages?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U4tI_qzyH0

he doesn't seem to have
this country's best interests
at heart

[WRESTLINGFAN]

he doesn't seem to have
this country's best interests
at heart

Or maybe its just politicians from Chicago are illiterate.

[Ogre]

Whether you agree or not with the bill. Holder embarassed himself. He couldn't read 10 fucking pages?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U4tI_qzyH0

The more I see and hear from this man, the more concerned I am that lady justice is far from blind, rather than it is driven by ideologues. If you are looking for equal protection under the law, furgettabout it. It is more social justice than legal justice. The highest law enforcement officer in the land who makes judgment, gives opinions and uses his influence based on his feelings and ideology rather than the laws as they are written. No one can even argue that his statements and information given to the media by the DOJ regarding this law were based on the law's constitutionality. Why is that? Because he admits that he hasn't even read it, like many of the law's detractors I suspect. This is our National Law Enforcement arm being run on emotion and hyperbole rather than facts and rules of law. Scary times we live in. Watch you back, they might not like you next.

[high fly]

Whether you agree or not with the bill. Holder embarassed himself. He couldn't read 10 fucking pages?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U4tI_qzyH0

Limpbaugh said it was 20, LeVin said it was 17 pages. No one on the right seems to be able to count....

[high fly]

The thing that cracks me up about all this is the bill was supposed to help with a perceived problem with Mexicans, then they have been falling all over themselves pointing out it is not aimed at any ethnic group or anything, which would tend to undermine the purpose of the bill. So it is as if they are saying, "We want a bill that won't do what we want it to!"
Or something......

[keithy_19]

Yes, they do.
Get yourself a copy of Charlie Wilson's War. In one of the early chapters, the formative years of Gust Avrakatos are described. He grew up in Aliquippa, Pennsylvania. As I recall, his father had some sort of soft drink business in the region and young Gust would travel from town to town selling and collecting receipts from different business owners. In many of those towns were sections where people spoke languages like Hungarian and Romanian and he picked up a lot - and needed to - in order to conduct business.

Come on high fly, at least name a book that is non-fiction.

[high fly]

Come on high fly, at least name a book that is non-fiction.

I believe you'll find it in the non-fiction part of the library....

[Section 8]

Limpbaugh said it was 20, LeVin said it was 17 pages. No one on the right seems to be able to count....

Well we know that Flush, I mean Rush tends to inflate things anyway. Maybe they went and printed it in larger type for him too.

[keithy_19]

I believe you'll find it in the non-fiction part of the library....

...what's a library?

[underdog]

haha the "Whoops, I Have No Workers" Bill

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/es3hq0XM-cw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/es3hq0XM-cw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[Dude!]

haha the "Whoops, I Have No Workers" Bill

the four NY teenagers
who were run down
by the illegal in NY
probably don't care
about hiring issues

[torker]

haha the "Whoops, I Have No Workers" Bill

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/es3hq0XM-cw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/es3hq0XM-cw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

he's tried hiring 'veterans, ex-cons; even a lost boy from Africa'

wtf?http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/south-park/marvin.gif

[Barnaby Jones]

the four NY teenagers
who were run down
by the illegal in NY
probably don't care
about hiring issues

So why do you you assume he wouldn't have been here legally if the borders were locked down against illegals?

[underdog]

the four NY teenagers
who were run down
by the illegal in NY
probably don't care
about hiring issues

the "random story I can pull from the news"
who were "whatever action happened"
by the white people in MT
probably don't care
about "whatever you want to put here"

Shit happens every day to people.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the "random story I can pull from the news"
who were "whatever action happened"
by the white people in MT
probably don't care
about "whatever you want to put here"

Shit happens every day to people.

I was guilty of posting stories like these all the time since then Ive toned it down. However those girls wouldnt be in the hospital if that lowlife was back in Guatemala.

[Barnaby Jones]

How do you know he wouldn't have been able to get here legally if the government and military locked down the country in regards to illegals?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

However you see the AZ Bill, I think it was reprehensible how Calderon was criticizing AZ meanwhile the Immigration laws in Mexico are much more draconian. The way those politicians were cheering him on like he was in a bullfight was sickening. Heres Calderon talking about Mexicos laws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOn8RZZ5wuA

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The deployment of 1200 guard troops will be a shellgame. Our military instead of defending the country from foreign invasion will be handing out milk and cookies to illegals in the desert. :wallbash:

[Tenbatsuzen]

A girl from Toms River, NJ who is a student at ASU was killed in a purse snatching gone wrong. Prime suspect is a heavy-set latino. If he's caught, and he's illegal... holy shit.

[Tenbatsuzen]

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/03/28/alg_matsui_wife.jpg
How do you say 'epic win' in Japanese?

FYI, Matsui speaks and understands English. He uses Roger Kahlon as a human filter so his words aren't misconstrued.

[torker]

FYI, Matsui speaks and understands English. He uses Roger Kahlon as a human filter so his words aren't misconstrued.

Go miscustrue yourself before I use your ass as a human filter. Roger that, Kahlon?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In MA. There was an illegal who drove drunk and rear ended some state senator who was for open broders. The illegal told police they cant do anything, and the sad thing is that he was right. Illegals have more rights than citizens

[Barnaby Jones]

In MA. There was an illegal who drove drunk and rear ended some state senator who was for open broders. The illegal told police they cant do anything, and the sad thing is that he was right. Illegals have more rights than citizens

Don't be a cartoon!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Don't be a cartoon!

Lets leave it up to him :lol:

http://toolooney.goldenagecartoons.com/speedyclipart.jpg

[high fly]

Sooooo, the smart guys with all the answers saw the federal law that has been such a failure and decided that copying it would be the answer!

[hanso]

The deployment of 1200 guard troops will be a shellgame. Our military instead of defending the country from foreign invasion will be handing out milk and cookies to illegals in the desert. :wallbash:

Didn't you say this is what should be done on your immigration thread?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Didn't you say this is what should be done on your immigration thread?

Yes, but not assist illegal aliens. 1200 troops wont make an impact at all

Instead of having troops in 100+ countries they should be deployed to defend the homeland. Dismantle the empire. Are we really needed in Germany? Afghanistan is a continued clusterfuck

[hanso]

But guard troops were sent to Iraq.

[Chigworthy]

But guard troops were sent to Iraq.

Wasn't Sayid one of 'em?

[hanso]

That guy said a drone almost hit him. I dunno if he was.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Massachusetts, is saying no mas!!!!!


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Mass-Senate-approves-illegal-apf-1066984405.html?x=0&.v=1

[high fly]

But guard troops were sent to Iraq.

Yeah, but they had more to do than make misdemeanor arrests....

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Whoa oh!! here he comes, watch out boy, he'll cut you up, Whoa oh!! here he comes, he's an illegal!!!

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2010/06/hall-and-oates-cancel-diamondbacks-concert/1

[Barnaby Jones]

These boycotts are so dumb! I understand the motivation, since AZ is run by morons, but they ultimately do more to hurt the people the boycotters are supporting and people who are just fans or customers than the decision-makers!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

These boycotts are so dumb! I understand the motivation, since AZ is run by morons, but they ultimately do more to hurt the people the boycotters are supporting and people who are just fans or customers than the decision-makers!

Besides who listens to H & O anymore?

[underdog]

These boycotts are so dumb! I understand the motivation, since AZ is run by morons, but they ultimately do more to hurt the people the boycotters are supporting and people who are just fans or customers than the decision-makers!

Most boycotts are retarded and virtually ineffective.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Is May-hee-co's president insane? This happened in CA. Also the illegal was fighting with border agents. Enough of these crocodile tears from someone whose country has more draconian laws than we do


He wants to run his trap about human rights, meanwhile he should look how his fellow countrymen treat illegal Guatemalans and others in his country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100608/wl_ynews/ynews_wl2456

[Barnaby Jones]

What about the 14-year-old shot on the border? Wonder why that one slipped under WF's radar....

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Border_agent_shoots_suspect_at_bridge_95860834.htm l

And what's with the "May-hee-co" crap? It's like you're trying you're hardest to come across like a dumb redneck.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What about the 14-year-old shot on the border? Wonder why that one slipped under WF's radar....

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Border_agent_shoots_suspect_at_bridge_95860834.htm l

And what's with the "May-hee-co" crap? It's like you're trying you're hardest to come across like a dumb redneck.

It said that there was a confrontation. That part of the world is as dangerous as Kabul. I dont think he lost his burro. Maybe he was smuggling drugs or had a weapon?


If a 14 year old Palistinean suicide bomber tries to get into Israel and the IDF catches them, im sure the Israelis wouldnt mind if the bomber was shot on sight
22K deaths in Mexico many as a result of the drug smuggling and Calderon has the cajones to lecture us about human rights? Detroit is safer

[Barnaby Jones]

Fantastically inaccurate analogies!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

From AP

"Preliminary reports on the incident indicated that U.S. officers on bicycle patrol "were assaulted with rocks by an unknown number of people," Border Patrol Special Operations Supervisor Ramiro Cordero "

Border agents had every right to retaliate. Howe did they know a 15 year old was among the crowd?

[Barnaby Jones]

Yeah, start blowing away people chucking rocks! Makes perfect sense!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yeah, start blowing away people chucking rocks! Makes perfect sense!

Damn right it does!!!!! Do you expect the border agents to be sitting ducks ?Those banditos shouldnt bring rocks to a gunfight especially to provoke armed border agents. Ive never heard of soft rocks except for


http://padresteve.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/album-the-essential-reo-speedwagon.jpg

[Barnaby Jones]

Guess they must have left their pepper spray at home! Or their tear gas! Or those kick ass bean-bag guns! Yup, there's no option except to unload with a gun when someone is chucking rocks!

Keep lapping the balls of the police state, you stooge!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Guess they must have left their pepper spray at home! Or their tear gas! Or those kick ass bean-bag guns! Yup, there's no option except to unload with a gun when someone is chucking rocks!

Keep lapping the balls of the police state, you stooge!

And what happened last week? An illegal trying to fight off border agents was tasered and died, And of course the Mexican government cried about that. Meanwhile their former citizens kill Americans on a bigger scale. so what should we use against them? Pillow cushions?

Were you in charge of gear inspection that day Lieutenant?

Are you willing to let people ransack your home if youre there? Hell make them dinner while youre at it

If he wouldnt have hurled rocks, he wouldnt have gotten a lead sandwich. Keep licking the Cajones of the illegals. Bullet beats rocks!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Guess they must have left their pepper spray at home! Or their tear gas! Or those kick ass bean-bag guns! Yup, there's no option except to unload with a gun when someone is chucking rocks!

Keep lapping the balls of the police state, you stooge!

Who the hell wants a police state? I want the border patrol doing their job and keeping people out of the country who are coming over illegally.


A police state is what Schumer wants. Everyone to have a biometric ID card, you should vent your anger to him

I know its unrelated to this thread but the Patriot act should be repealed, and for Gods sake, enough of this taking shoes off to borard a plane

[Barnaby Jones]

You want them unnecessarily killing illegals. Shooting someone over throwing rocks is unacceptable. And I don't care if Mexico's president was outraged over the use of the stun gun! That's still a much better alternative than opening fire! Give these guys the budget to make sure they're able to carry non-lethal weapons when on patrol! That would be doing their job, not shooting a kid because people were chucking some stones! This is the kind of crap we get when the fearmongering that people like you get a boner off of takes hold!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You want them unnecessarily killing illegals. Shooting someone over throwing rocks is unacceptable. And I don't care if Mexico's president was outraged over the use of the stun gun! That's still a much better alternative than opening fire! Give these guys the budget to make sure they're able to carry non-lethal weapons when on patrol! That would be doing their job, not shooting a kid because people were chucking some stones! This is the kind of crap we get when the fearmongering that people like you get a boner off of takes hold!

So if someone is throwing rocks at cops from a far distance and they are told more than once to stop you just want the cops to fire pepper spray from 30 yards away?

I really dont care what Mexicos president thinks either. Wheres his concern when his fellow countrymen mow down Americans after a night of drinking or the untold amounts of rapes and murders.

The Agents did their job. Its to keep people out and sometimes deadly force is needed. I really dont care if he was 15 or 50 maybe it will encourage others not to taunt Border agents

They were told to stop, Im sure there were warning shots fired. Its not my problem if they don't speak English, keep poking a stick into the cage one too many times and the result is never beneficial

[Barnaby Jones]

So if someone is throwing rocks at cops from a far distance and they are told more than once to stop you just want the cops to fire pepper spray from 30 yards away?

I really dont care what Mexicos president thinks either. Wheres his concern when his fellow countrymen mow down Americans after a night of drinking or the untold amounts of rapes and murders.

The Agents did their job. Its to keep people out and sometimes deadly force is needed. I really dont care if he was 15 or 50 maybe it will encourage others not to taunt Border agents

They were told to stop, Im sure there were warning shots fired. Its not my problem if they don't speak English, keep poking a stick into the cage one too many times and the result is never beneficial

You have no idea if warning shots were fired! And if they need to get closer to use the pepper spray, then charge towards them and use it! You're acting like rocks are these crazy dangerous, unbeatable weapons they have to stay far away from and have no option but to use their guns!

See? Even when you get your way and some illegals get killed you're still fearmongering! You have to do crap like act like rocks are hand grenades or compare it to the conflict between Israel and Palestine and suicide bombers or talking like most illegals are here just to go on a rampage of murdering and raping and drunk driving! Pathetic! You talk about them like they're comic book supervillains you live in terror of!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You have no idea if warning shots were fired! And if they need to get closer to use the pepper spray, then charge towards them and use it! You're acting like rocks are these crazy dangerous, unbeatable weapons they have to stay far away from and have no option but to use their guns!

See? Even when you get your way and some illegals get killed you're still fearmongering! You have to do crap like act like rocks are hand grenades or compare it to the conflict between Israel and Palestine and suicide bombers or talking like most illegals are here just to go on a rampage of murdering and raping and drunk driving! Pathetic! You talk about them like they're comic book supervillains you live in terror of!

Youre making it to seem like that the border agents are downing whiskey and just looking for little brown people to pickoff like target practice. These agents were following protocol. Now If they tried to cover it up then that would be a different story. Do you remember Ramos and Compean from 2006 when they shot an illegal smuggling drugs? While they should have reported it, I believe 12 years each was a bit harsh. Took Bush on his last day in office to free them, however they did not get a pardon.

I know they are not coming here with c-4 strapped to thmselves. (Theyre not smart enough for that), but seriously there are a lot of stories of them coming here to sell drugs, rape, murder and drive drunk. Just do a google search in news and put in illegal alien/illegal immigrant and see how many crime stories they are involved in

[Barnaby Jones]

Youre making it to seem like that the border agents are downing whiskey and just looking for little brown people to pickoff like target practice. These agents were following protocol.

No I'm not and no they're not! Protocol should not be to shoot people for throwing rocks, and if it is it needs to be changed yesterday! That's barbaric bullshit that we should be above!

I know they are not coming here with c-4 strapped to thmselves. (Theyre not smart enough for that), but seriously there are a lot of stories of them coming here to sell drugs, rape, murder and drive drunk. Just do a google search in news and put in illegal alien/illegal immigrant and see how many crime stories they are involved in

Look, here's what you'll never accept: they'll never stop coming here so long as we ignore the main reasons why they're trying to get in illegally. Until we seriously work at reforming the drugs laws here and reforming the immigration process itself you're going to have scores of people trying to sneak in. Unless your desire is to see the US waste money militarizing the border indefinitely and more and more people needlessly killed then your support of this is just shortsighted! You're never going to keep out all or even most of the people who would commit crimes here because too often they won't have criminal records or accessible criminal records. Your desire to completely keep them out is a pipe dream. You refuse to accept that the net gain from them being here outweighs the cost. Your approach to this is hopelessly backwards and myopic!

[brettmojo]

Yeah um I think there are a few middle eastern women would tell you rocks are definitely dangerous weapons... Oh wait, they can't... They're dead.

Don't throw rocks at people with guns. Someone translate that into Spanish and put it on some signs at the border.

[Knowledged_one]

Guess they must have left their pepper spray at home! Or their tear gas! Or those kick ass bean-bag guns! Yup, there's no option except to unload with a gun when someone is chucking rocks!

Keep lapping the balls of the police state, you stooge!

So you think that peppper spray can reach the same distance as a thrown rock? You know what after reading your post above you have lost all credibility and sorry to say you show no sign of real intelligence

Enjoy the shortbus

[Knowledged_one]

You have no idea if warning shots were fired! And if they need to get closer to use the pepper spray, then charge towards them and use it! You're acting like rocks are these crazy dangerous, unbeatable weapons they have to stay far away from and have no option but to use their guns!

See? Even when you get your way and some illegals get killed you're still fearmongering! You have to do crap like act like rocks are hand grenades or compare it to the conflict between Israel and Palestine and suicide bombers or talking like most illegals are here just to go on a rampage of murdering and raping and drunk driving! Pathetic! You talk about them like they're comic book supervillains you live in terror of!

I tell you what grab some pepper spray and let me and 3 or 4 of my friends throw rocks at you till you get in range lets see how that works out for you

[underdog]

I think we should shoot anyone we suspect could possibly throw a rock at any point.

[Barnaby Jones]

I tell you what grab some pepper spray and let me and 3 or 4 of my friends throw rocks at you till you get in range lets see how that works out for you

It's no problem to get pepper spray designed to be used from 15-20 feet away or even in gun form which can be used from 20-25 feet away. I also said the Border Patrol agents should have the budget to have the equipment they need, which should include helmets and/or riot shields if necessary! Or tear gas, or bean bag guns or their ilk! Much better options than shooting people dead on our border over throwing rocks! See how simple that is? The goal should be to disperse people and drive them back, not kill unless it's the very last resort!

[Barnaby Jones]

So you think that peppper spray can reach the same distance as a thrown rock? You know what after reading your post above you have lost all credibility and sorry to say you show no sign of real intelligence

Enjoy the shortbus

Love seeing how certain people here are so desperate to act like rocks being hurled over a significant distance are these crazy deadly weapons against someone who is mobile and armed with a gun! Hilarious!

[Knowledged_one]

It's no problem to get pepper spray designed to be used from 15-18 feet away. I also said the Border Patrol agents should have the budget to have the equipment they need, which should include helmets and/or riot shields if necessary! Or tear gas, or bean bag guns or their ilk! Much better options than shooting people dead on our border over throwing rocks! See how simple that is?

Actually no i dont see how simple that is, they were throwing rocks at patrol agents across a river in mexico as they were trying to detain illegal border crossers. What good is riot shields and helmets do other then make you stationary targets. US agents should not have to be subjected to assaults on their persons and take the precautions to protect the rights of illegal aliens who are breaking our law.

I mean i get it you are some super liberal from Cali who enjoys going into restaurants and having the illegals working their tell you to hold on while they get someone who can take your order in english, and dont tell me it doesnt happen because it does. The problem your state is to chicken shit and pussy whipped to man up and do whats right which is why the state of California is broke and coddles the ILLEGAL LAW BREAKERS, its ingrained in you to give up and just accept what is happening in your shit hole of a state but AZ and the rest dont want to

[Knowledged_one]

Love seeing how certain people here are so desperate to act like rocks being hurled over a significant distance are these crazy deadly weapons against someone who is mobile and armed with a gun! Hilarious!

I like how you pick out rocks as your rallying cry but ignore the man that was killed in California had to be wrestled to the ground, or how MS-13 has sprung up around this country or the countless crimes from drunk driving to rape to murder that these illegal immigrants commit while sending the money back that they make to their own country

They are illegally in this country plain and simple what dont you get about that

[underdog]

Actually no i dont see how simple that is, they were throwing rocks at patrol agents across a river in mexico as they were trying to detain illegal border crossers. What good is riot shields and helmets do other then make you stationary targets. US agents should not have to be subjected to assaults on their persons and take the precautions to protect the rights of illegal aliens who are breaking our law.

I mean i get it you are some super liberal from Cali who enjoys going into restaurants and having the illegals working their tell you to hold on while they get someone who can take your order in english, and dont tell me it doesnt happen because it does. The problem your state is to chicken shit and pussy whipped to man up and do whats right which is why the state of California is broke and coddles the ILLEGAL LAW BREAKERS, its ingrained in you to give up and just accept what is happening in your shit hole of a state but AZ and the rest dont want to

I actually kind of missed your crazy posts.

[Barnaby Jones]

Actually no i dont see how simple that is, they were throwing rocks at patrol agents across a river in mexico as they were trying to detain illegal border crossers. What good is riot shields and helmets do other then make you stationary targets. US agents should not have to be subjected to assaults on their persons and take the precautions to protect the rights of illegal aliens who are breaking our law.

You're really going to argue that rocks thrown across the river are a life-threatening issue for the agents? And you really think helmets and shields wouldn't be able to easily deflect rocks thrown across a river? Why would it be unacceptable to you for them to disperse the throwers through non-lethal means in that situation? It's completely unnecessary to be shooting to kill if the present threat are rocks being chucked across a river.

[Knowledged_one]

I actually kind of missed your crazy posts.

You are just buttering me up to get me in bed now that i live closer to you since i moved to connecticut

[Barnaby Jones]

Where in Connecticut? I'm from there!

[underdog]

Where in Connecticut? I'm from there!

WrestlingFan is, as well.

[Barnaby Jones]

My mind is blown!!!!

[A.J.]

Where in Connecticut? I'm from there!

Me too!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Im a refugee from Westchester County NY. Now a resident of Stamford

[Barnaby Jones]

Connecticut is all over this place!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Part of AZ given to Mexico by de facto.

This is negligence on the part of the Federal government. They are basically throwing their hands up in the air and giving smugglers free rein.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPrl4P9AcrQ&feature=player_embedded

[Serpico1103]

Part of AZ given back to Mexico by de facto.



Fixed.

Keep up the good fight.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fixed.

Keep up the good fight.

They can have California, maybe PR can be admitted to the union so we have 50 states again

[Serpico1103]

They can have California, maybe PR can be admitted to the union so we have 50 states again

Sorry, I don't join your "One World Government" philosophy. I think we need a smaller country, not a larger one.

Let's retreat back from the border states, Mexican and Canadian.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sorry, I don't join your "One World Government" philosophy. I think we need a smaller country, not a larger one.

Let's retreat back from the border states, Mexican and Canadian.

Fuck it. Canada can have Michigan, they would do us a favor

[Furtherman]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ray_1ROtYdI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ray_1ROtYdI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Yikes.


Plus, Brewer Linked To Private Prisons Housing Illegal Immigrants (http://www.kpho.com/news/24834877/detail.html)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

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Yikes.


Plus, Brewer Linked To Private Prisons Housing Illegal Immigrants (http://www.kpho.com/news/24834877/detail.html)

Her opening remarks in the debate last night were atrocious, she looked incoherent and could not complete a sentence without hesitating.

[Skellington]

Her opening remarks in the debate last night were atrocious, she looked incoherent and could not complete a sentence without hesitating.

she's afraid she's going to get shot.

[Willmore]

she's afraid she's going to get shot.

Not shot, beheaded in the desert.

[A.J.]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ray_1ROtYdI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ray_1ROtYdI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Yikes.

"Democracy 2010"???

I want to vomit in terror.

[KnoxHarrington]

Another day, another Arizona douchebag caught lying his ass off about illegal immigration:

First, right-wingers reported Mexican drug cartels had invaded Laredo, Texas -- nevermind that law enforcement says it never happened. Now, Arizona Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu is lending the stamp of authority to the idea that the cartels are conquering parts of the red, white and blue -- nevermind that other law enforcement says that's not true.

In a Washington Times article about recently erected signs warning citizens to be cautious of border crossers and smuggling activity in Arizona (which has Republicans like Gov. Jan Brewer up in arms) Babeu delivers the news:

"Mexican drug cartels literally do control parts of Arizona," Babeu told the Times. "They literally have scouts on the high points in the mountains and in the hills and they literally control movement. They have radios, they have optics, they have night-vision goggles as good as anything law enforcement has."

"This is going on here in Arizona," he added. "This is 70 to 80 miles from the border - 30 miles from the fifth-largest city in the United States."

Oh my god, the cartels have taken over! Whatever will we do! Surely we must be protected from this scourge...oh wait...

Sheriff Babeu's office did not return calls for comment from TPM, but the sheriffs of Santa Cruz and Pima counties (which both border Mexico, unlike Babeu's Pinal) told TPM the cartels do not control any territory. Neither disputed the seriousness of the problem posed by the cartels, or the fact that drug smugglers operate in Arizona. But they did reassure TPM that the cartels are not on an annexing spree.

"They do not have control of any territory," Santa Cruz County Sheriff Tony Estrada told TPM. "That would be like saying we are useless and we're not here and we're out of the way."

"They do have sophisticated technology and scouts and all that, that's been known for years," he said.

Estrada, who said he's been in law enforcement for 40 years, said the cartel leaders were "smart businessmen" who try to draw as little attention as possible to their activities. When one violates a nation's territorial integrity, one tends to make noise.

Regarding Babeu's claims, Estrada couldn't "say that he's lying," but he did say that "there are a lot of things that are happening this election year." Neither Babeu nor Estrada is currently running for re-election, but Estrada suggested that he thinks "a lot of the fear is going to die after November."

No shit.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/mccains_danged_fence_sheriff_claims_drug_cartels_c ontrol_us_ter.php

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ICE Report throws a monkey wrench into DOJ's investigation of Arpaio. This stinks of political motivation from Holder

http://daytontribune.com/ice-agency-report-puts-serious-dent-in-eric-holder%E2%80%99s-doj-case-against-sheriff-joe-arpaio/75961/

[Syd]

It stinks of someone fighting for their budget. If Arpaio gets ousted, they're going to get a lot less money because of "immigration concerns"

[hanso]

Come to Arizona see the headless bodies in the desert.