Israel vs Gazatilla

[torker]

Israel: At least 10 killed on Gaza flotilla (http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2010/05/31/turkey_2_dead_in_israeli_attack_on_gaza_air_ships/?page=2)

JERUSALEM—Israeli commandos on Monday stormed six ships carrying hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists on an aid mission to the blockaded Gaza Strip, killing at least 10 people and wounding dozens after encountering unexpected resistance as the forces boarded the vessels.


The flotilla of three cargo ships and three passenger ships carrying 10,000 tons of aid and 700 activists was carrying items that Israel bars from reaching Gaza, like cement and other building materials. The activists said they also were carrying hundreds of electric-powered wheelchairs, prefabricated homes and water purifiers to the territory's 1.5 million residents.

[pennington]

To register his displeasure with Israel, the President will continue his vacation.

[Kevin]

To register his displeasure with Israel, the President will continue his vacation.



Are you seriously bashing Obama for taking a vacation?

He has worked like a mad man non stop since Nov on many issue's.

To bash him would be fucking stupid.

Bush took teacher like summer vaca's when shit when shit was going on. Bush spent more of his 8 years in His ranch or camp David than he did in the White House.

And don't give me this BP spill.

We live in a tech age, he has people that handle shit, he does not need to be in the white house 24/7 365.

[Dude!]

We live in a tech age, he has people that handle shit, he does not need to be in the white house 24/7 365.

um, i imagine they had internet
access in crawford too

fact is, obama spent
3 lousy hours grand-standing
in Louisiana last week

3 hours

let's face it
the man is just plain lazy

[pennington]

Are you seriously bashing Obama for taking a vacation?

Yes.

(I'm not even going to mention he should get himself to that Memorial Day ceremony)

He has worked like a mad man non stop since Nov on many issue's.

On lowering his handicap, maybe.

To bash him would be fucking stupid.

I disagree.

Bush took teacher like summer vaca's when shit when shit was going on. Bush spent more of his 8 years in His ranch or camp David than he did in the White House.

Check your calendar. That argument didn't work a year ago.

And don't give me this BP spill.

Really? Even James Carville would laugh at that.

We live in a tech age,he has people that handle shit, he does not need to be in the white house 24/7 365.


Not very well, apparently.

[Kevin]

Bush took a plane ride to NO trying to look all sad.

Stop it with this blaming Obama for everything nonsense.

I'm not saying thay the BP stuff isn't a huge disaster, I'm just saying that in this day and age, one doesn't have to be in the Office all the time to take care of shit.

And working on his handicap?

The only handicap he was working on was the country he inherited from, im assuming, YOUR REPUBLICANS.

[A.J.]

I'm not saying thay the BP stuff isn't a huge disaster, I'm just saying that in this day and age, one doesn't have to be in the Office all the time to take care of shit..

So why rip on Bush then? You just made the argument why it's no big deal for any President to take a vacation.

Back to the topic at hand: good job Israel! The Palestinians might have turned those electric wheelchairs into IEDs!

[Death Metal Moe]

How did a story about the Jews shooting aid workers turn into an anti-Obama rant?

[torker]

teacher like summer vaca's
:clap::thumbup::smoke::drunk::tongue::sleep::wink:

[Kevin]

So why rip on Bush then? You just made the argument why it's no big deal for any President to take a vacation.

Back to the topic at hand: good job Israel! The Palestinians might have turned those electric wheelchairs into IEDs!



I was saying Obama does not take nearly as many vaca's that he did.

These yahoos jump on Obama for everything and supported Bush through all his shit.

Is Obama perfect? No. But just stop nitpicking on everything he does.

As far as Isreal..

Of course they arent at fault, they never are.

[Kevin]

How did a story about the Jews shooting aid workers turn into an anti-Obama rant?



Because these douches try to blame him for everything.

[S0S]

Let's suppose that the BP Oil spill had happened in say 2008 after approving new drilling in the Gulf of Mexico; what would your reaction have be then? Just think about that for a second.

Back on topic

If the Gazian ship refused to allow for inspection and instead opened fire on the Israel navy after they showed considerable restraint, what would be the proper response by Israel's navy?

QTSA:
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177040

“Operation Sea Breeze”, as it was called by the IDF, actually began several hours earlier at about 11 pm Sunday night as the Navy made its initial contact with the Mavi Marmara and the other five ships which were part of an international aid flotilla on its way to try and break the Israel-imposed sea blockade on Gaza.

After several hours of radio communications and warnings that the Mavi Marmara would be boarded if the captain did not change his ship’s course, at 4 am Monday, OC Navy Vice-Admiral Eliezer “Cheney” Marom, who had set up a command post on the INS Victory, gave the order to Flotilla 13 to board the ship.

Armed with rifles that could shoot paintballs – which can hurt but not kill – the soldiers landed on the ship and immediately came under attack by dozens of activists armed with knives, bats and metal pipes. Activists grabbed soldiers and tried to hold them hostage, stripping them of their helmets and equipment.

One of the soldiers tried to protect a commando who was being lynched by a group of activists. They were instructed by the flotilla commander to refrain from using their sidearm unless their lives were at risk.

The force threw several stun grenades but the violent attacks continued. Two soldiers were injured and some of the activists succeeded in stealing one of the soldier’s guns. Shots were fired and one of the soldiers fell to the ground unconscious. Fearing for their lives, the soldiers asked and received permission to open fire, first taking aim at the activists’ feet.

In one corner of the ship, the commandos saw a gun flash. They returned fire and started chasing the shooter but could not find him.

...

[torker]

Armed with rifles that could shoot paintballs – which can hurt but not kill – the soldiers landed on the ship and immediately came under attack by dozens of activists armed with knives, bats and metal pipes. Activists grabbed soldiers and tried to hold them hostage, stripping them of their helmets and equipment.

One of the soldiers tried to protect a commando who was being lynched by a group of activists. They were instructed by the flotilla commander to refrain from using their sidearm unless their lives were at risk.

The force threw several stun grenades but the violent attacks continued. Two soldiers were injured and some of the activists succeeded in stealing one of the soldier’s guns. Shots were fired and one of the soldiers fell to the ground unconscious. Fearing for their lives, the soldiers asked and received permission to open fire, first taking aim at the activists’ feet.

In one corner of the ship, the commandos saw a gun flash. They returned fire and started chasing the shooter but could not find him.

...
[/I]


sounds like all they forgot to bring was cupcakes

[A.J.]

If the Gazian ship refused to allow for inspection and instead opened fire on the Israel navy after they showed considerable restraint, what would be the proper response by Israel's navy?

QTSA:
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177040

Hmmm...funny that the Jerusalem Post article didn't mention that this attack took place in international waters (http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/05/31/gaza.protest/index.html?hpt=T1).

And Al-Jazeera for the flip side (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053113252437484.html):

The flotilla was attacked in international waters, 65km off the Palestinian coastal enclave.

Avital Leibovich, an Israeli military spokeswoman, confirmed that the attack took place in international waters, saying: "This happened in waters outside of Israeli territory, but we have the right to defend ourselves."

[Kevin]

Let's suppose that the BP Oil spill had happened in say 2008 after approving new drilling in the Gulf of Mexico; what would your reaction have be then? Just think about that for a second.



...
[/I]



Yea except the Rep response to it was this is not enough, we need more drilling.

[A.J.]

Yea except the Rep response to it was this is not enough, we need more drilling.

I'm trying to find chicks who need more drilling.

[Kevin]

I'm trying to find chicks who need more drilling.



Israeli chicks love to get drilled

[torker]

I was saying Obama does not take nearly as many vaca's that he did.

These yahoos jump on Obama for everything and supported Bush through all his shit.

Is Obama perfect? No. But just stop nitpicking on everything he does.

As far as Isreal..

Of course they arent at fault, they never are.

There he goes again.http://www.pjtv.com/content-images/0002_obama_superman_awesome.jpg
Netanyahu's cancellation of meeting with Obama delays efforts to improve ties (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/31/AR2010053101782.html)

[S0S]

Hmmm...funny that the Jerusalem Post article didn't mention that this attack took place in international waters.

And Al-Jazeera for the flip side:

Where else would Israel would keep its inspection?

1 out of 6 ships gave the inspection violence.

The military official said most of the nine deaths were Turks. Twenty people were wounded. Seven Israeli soldiers were also wounded, one seriously.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/159807

On Sunday evening, PRESS TV reported, in a live stand-up from on board the Freedom Flotilla´s Mavi Marmara — a passenger ship now sailing toward Gaza with some 600 or more passengers– that Israel has announced an increase in its declared maritime no-go zone to 48 miles off the coast of Gaza.

Earlier Sunday afternoon, organizers on board the Mavi Marmara reportedly confirmed receipt of a fax from the Israeli military.

Israel's formally-declared naval blockade of Gaza was announced on 3-4 January 2009, just as the Israeli ground operation in Gaza began during Operation Cast Lead (27 December 2008 to 18 January 2009) -- and it was not extinguished after the two unilateral cease-fires (Israel's and Hamas') went into effect at the end of that massive military operation.

The Israeli government has ordered this Flotilla stopped and interdicted because the aid would benefit Hamas, which it would not do if it went through Israeli security inspection and then through the land crossings controlled by Israel -- as Israel is offering as an alternative to a confrontation at sea?

[Ritalin]

This thread is exhibit A of how .net has become a hack joke.

[underdog]

This thread is exhibit A of how .net has become a hack joke.

No way.

Hack jokes can sometimes be funny.

[Ritalin]

No way.

Hack jokes can sometimes be funny.

what the fuck
is that
supposed to
mean!?

You're stupid because
you don't think what
I think.
(see how easy it is?)

[Kevin]

I hate to break it to you but its not just this board.

The 50 Dave threads that are all the same is a bigger example of this board being a hack joke.

[scottinnj]

That's it? The media are acting like regards on this story, so I zoom back after 6 months to hopefully find a rational debate going on, but instead, its the Bush/Obama argument.

[scottinnj]

And not regards, I meant retards. Stupid spellcheck.

[Kevin]

That's it? The media are acting like regards on this story, so I zoom back after 6 months to hopefully find a rational debate going on, but instead, its the Bush/Obama argument.



I really didnt mean to get into it but it just bugged me how he used it as a vehicle to attack him.

[scottinnj]

Meh, never be distracted, it just slows down the victory party.

[epo]

So reports that I've seen have this mess:

A. In International Waters.
B. On an aid ship.
C. Happening after a white flag was raised.

I would love to hear a solid rationale for how Israel defends this logically.

[underdog]

what the fuck
is that
supposed to
mean!?

You're stupid because
you don't think what
I think.
(see how easy it is?)

That's not condescending enough.

[SatCam]

I cant wait until we bomb that entire part of the world off the map

[Kevin]

So reports that I've seen have this mess:

A. In International Waters.
B. On an aid ship.
C. Happening after a white flag was raised.

I would love to hear a solid rationale for how Israel defends this logically.

They were trying to defend themselves from the big bad aid ships...

[yojimbo7248]

This thread is exhibit A of how .net has become a hack joke.

amen

[yojimbo7248]

what the fuck
is that
supposed to
mean!?

You're stupid because
you don't think what
I think.
(see how easy it is?)

:lol:

[high fly]

let's face it
the man is just plain lazy


Gotta make it even more humiliating to be beat by a lazy guy on health insurance reform, Supreme Court nominations and financial regulation..........

[Furtherman]

Sea Breeze feels great on the skin.

[high fly]

That's it? The media are acting like regards on this story,


Stupid media ree-gards......

[dino_electropolis]

So reports that I've seen have this mess:

A. In International Waters.
B. On an aid ship.
C. Happening after a white flag was raised.

I would love to hear a solid rationale for how Israel defends this logically.


I think they generally resort to harping back to the holocaust, or some anti-semitism nonsense.

[SatCam]

I think they generally resort to harping back to the holocaust, or some anti-semitism nonsense.

a second holocaust would put a swift end to their bitching

[Kevin]

a second holocaust would put a swift end to their bitching

There was a first?

http://haroon247.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/ahmadinejad1.jpg

[torker]

a second holocaust would put a swift end to their bitching
:ohmy:

Holocaust 2: Electric Boogajoo

[hanso]

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who's zoomin who?

[Meataball23]

This thread/site/internet is a hack joke.

[Recyclerz]

Interesting analysis by these guys:

StratFor: Basically, Israel stepped on its dick (http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20100530_brief_consequences_flotilla_attack)

[PapaBear]

And not regards, I meant retards. Stupid spellcheck.
Don't blame spell-check. It's Obama's fault.

BTW... According to spell-check, you spelled spellcheck wrong.

[foodcourtdruide]

The more I read about this the harder I find it to defend Israel. Does this remind anyone else of Kent State?

[torker]

Interesting analysis by these guys:

StratFor: Basically, Israel stepped on its dick (http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20100530_brief_consequences_flotilla_attack)

That's exactly why God gave us foreskin.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The more I read about this the harder I find it to defend Israel. Does this remind anyone else of Kent State?

Jusr need Neil Young to make a song about it

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Turns out that these so called peace activists may not be the choir boys once thought

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/ap_on_re_eu/eu_gaza_ships_terror_ties

[torker]

Turns out that these so called peace activists may not be the choir boys once thought

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/ap_on_re_eu/eu_gaza_ships_terror_ties

"IHH vehemently denies ties to radical groups. The group is not among some 45 groups listed as terrorists by the U.S. State Department's Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism. Nine people on board the IHH flotilla were killed by Israeli forces on Monday."

[torker]

Israeli raid on Gaza Freedom Flotilla killed US citizen Furkan Dogan
Furkan Dogan – one of the activists killed in an Israeli raid on the Gaza 'Freedom Flotilla' and buried in Turkey today – was a US citizen.
A friend, who had been on board the same ship, said Dogan was shot by five bullets. (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0603/Israeli-raid-on-Gaza-Freedom-Flotilla-killed-US-citizen-Furkan-Dogan/(page)/2)

[foodcourtdruide]

Israeli raid on Gaza Freedom Flotilla killed US citizen Furkan Dogan
Furkan Dogan – one of the activists killed in an Israeli raid on the Gaza 'Freedom Flotilla' and buried in Turkey today – was a US citizen.
A friend, who had been on board the same ship, said Dogan was shot by five bullets. (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0603/Israeli-raid-on-Gaza-Freedom-Flotilla-killed-US-citizen-Furkan-Dogan/(page)/2)

If Iran imposed a blockade, learned of a group of activists (non-violent or violent) intended to challenge the blockade with aid supplies. The blockade was then forcefully boarded by heavily armed Iranian soldiers IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS, who were met with minor resistance in the form of knives and possibly small arms fire. Nine of the activists were killed, and it's impossible to determine the amount of provocation on each side prior to the deaths. One of the dead is an American. How does that play out in the American media?

[foodcourtdruide]

Turns out that these so called peace activists may not be the choir boys once thought

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/ap_on_re_eu/eu_gaza_ships_terror_ties

This article is absolutely fucking amazing. This is one person's claim that the group had terror ties, and they report it as news. How the FUCK does a news organization print a headline like that? It's so misleading. It should read "Opinions differ on whether Turkish aid group had terror ties". Seriously, that infuriates me.

[torker]

If Iran imposed a blockade, learned of a group of activists (non-violent or violent) intended to challenge the blockade with aid supplies. The blockade was then forcefully boarded by heavily armed Iranian soldiers IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS, who were met with minor resistance in the form of knives and possibly small arms fire. Nine of the activists were killed, and it's impossible to determine the amount of provocation on each side prior to the deaths. One of the dead is an American. How does that play out in the American media?

I'll get back to you in that. This still hasn't played out at all. I don't know who this kid was, haven't heard a peep. If he was a bad egg, so be it. It seems that a lot of people want to explain what happened as part of the big picture and not look at it as a specific event.

[foodcourtdruide]

I'll get back to you in that. This still hasn't played out at all. I don't know who this kid was, haven't heard a peep. If he was a bad egg, so be it. It seems that a lot of people want to explain what happened as part of the big picture and not look at it as a specific event.

I'm not choosing a side. To be honest, I think both sides are likely at fault. The activists seemed to challenge the Israeli troops and the troops were entirely too aggressive and handled the situation poorly.

[Kevin]

I'm not choosing a side. To be honest, I think both sides are likely at fault. The activists seemed to challenge the Israeli troops and the troops were entirely too aggressive and handled the situation poorly.

I agree with both of your statements.

[torker]

I agree with both of your statements.

Hey, it's a discussion!:thumbup:

[Kevin]

I think its a mix of the world really being fed up with Israels stuff, and The Obama Admin being careful on how to respond to this because of the way Israel and American Jews view him.

They view him as more of a Muslim sympathizer and fear him.

If Obama just jumps on something without know all the facts, it can really have a bad affect..

As for the American media....

Alot of Jews work there and of course they are going to be pro Israel.

[foodcourtdruide]

Hey, it's a discussion!:thumbup:

Hooray for that. :clap:

It's hard to ignore the results though. Nine activitists are dead. What would this story be like if 9 Israeli troops had been killed? Would this have been labeled a terrorist attack? Isn't funny how powerful media wording can be?

[foodcourtdruide]

Also, where the fuck did the term "flotilla" come from? I've never heard that word in my life and now the ONLY thing the media calls this group of aid ships is a "flotilla".

[torker]

(CNN) (http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/06/gaza.flotilla.recordings/?hpt=T2)-- Israel acknowledged Sunday that it edited recordings of what it said were anti-Semitic and anti-American radio calls by pro-Palestinian activists who tried to run the Gaza blockade and that it could not identify the origin of the broadcasts.

The Israeli military released a 26-second recording Friday night in which a warning call to a ship in the flotilla was met with the reply of "Shut up -- go back to Auschwitz." After another voice reports that the convoy has the permission of Palestinian officials to dock in Gaza, a third voice responds, "We are helping Arabs going against the U.S. Don't forget 9/11, guys."

But after the organizers of the aid convoy accused Israeli officials of manipulating the tapes, the Israel Defense Forces reported it had mistakenly identified one of the six ships in the activists' "Freedom Flotilla" as the source of the broadcasts. And it released a nearly six-minute recording of radio traffic that included those calls and several others, along with bursts of static and calls in other languages on the same channel.

[hanso]

The Turks are coming. So they say.

[Dude!]

i hope they send Joran van der Sloot
to a Turkish prison

[torker]

where they hung the Turk who invented work

[torker]

Documentary maker Iara Lee smuggles out video despite Israeli attempt to confiscate all recordings
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[torker]

Furkan Doğan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furkan_Do%C4%9Fan)
nothing